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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

How is War on Terror Going So Far?; What Lies Ahead?

Aired March 11, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, THE WAR ROOM: The enemy struck first, a sudden and devastating blow. Six months later, the U.S. is caught up in an all out war against terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have the opportunity to tear terrorism out by the roots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: While that may take years of struggle and sacrifice, how is the war going so far? We'll go live to the frontlines in Afghanistan, and we'll hear from those fighting the war in their own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They had us pinned in on all four sides, just dropping round after round. And one would hit right after the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll look at the military and intelligence successes and setbacks. And I'll speak live with former NATO supreme commander, retired General George Joulwan and former CIA director James Woolsey as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from just outside the Pentagon.

Six months ago today, the United States was just beginning to assess the enormity of what had happened that morning. By this hour, it was clear President Bush would eventually respond militarily. That began on October 7 and has continued ever since. By all accounts, this war against terrorism will continue for months, and perhaps even years.

Tonight, here in the CNN WAR ROOM, we'll look at the successes and the setbacks of the war, six months after it was declared, and we'll examine what lies ahead.

For now, the U.S. military remains focused on Operation Anaconda, the campaign to destroy diehard al Qaeda and Taliban forces in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan. CNN's Nic Robertson is near the frontlines in Gardez and he joins us now live -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, throughout the night, we've been able to hear low-flying drone reconnaissance aircraft patrolling the area. From what we've seen close to the frontline, they appear to patrol a large, flat plain, that if the al Qaeda and Taliban elements were able to get out of the mountainous area, they could cross that plain and dissolve back into the Afghan community. So the reconnaissance aircraft appearing to be one of the walls that stops the al Qaeda and Taliban forces escaping.

Throughout the day, we saw B-1 bombers and A-10 bunker busters dropping bombs and firing missiles on the further side of that ridgeline. That ridgeline runs right along the frontline of Operation Anaconda. It is a few miles from an U.S. special forces base. And there are targets that appear to be targeted, from what we could see, appear to be around the Shah-e-Kot village, the focus of Operation Anaconda, where most of the Taliban and al Qaeda are believed to be hiding.

And through the day as well, we saw about 300 to 400 Afghan reinforcements moving towards the frontlines. They were coming on trucks, on small, light pickup vehicles, lightly armed. They also took with them several tanks and several armored artillery pieces, also some multi-barreled rocket launchers. These forces have now been moved up into the most forward of positions. Again, they appear to be in a blocking position now attempting to stop al Qaeda, Taliban forces getting out of the mountains through a deep valley -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic, based on the conversations you've had with Afghan fighters over there and American forces, what is their assessment how this war, six months into it, is going?

ROBERTSON: I think the average Afghan, Wolf, if an Afghan can be described that way, somebody trying to lead a simple rural or city life, not a fighter, had hoped in the early stages the international involvement in Afghanistan, for a larger international force to disarm the warlords of Afghanistan. That hasn't happened.

The trends that are emerging are that different thiefdoms are being set up around the country. However, those theifdoms do say that they will support the new interim central government in Afghanistan. However, it's a patchwork across Afghanistan. And while most Afghans saw the international involvement and the events subsequent to September the 11th as an opportunity to bring stability to the country, there is a level of stability returning, but there also is a level of theifdomship and warlordism that is set up within a country that is still not backed up by a strong national army and that still leaves people here wondering if real peace will be restored to them as they had hoped it might -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson in Gardez, in Afghanistan, thanks for that report.

And the war against terrorism has already led to some significant victories, but U.S. forces have also run into some trouble and tragedy. Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, has a progress report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was only last week that the U.S. first put substantial ground forces in harm's way, and quickly took heavy casualties, including eight dead. In a battle to eliminate a mountain stronghold, U.S. intelligence had underestimated the number of men and arms the enemy had.

SGT. MAJOR FRANK GRIPPE: The picture intel painted was just a little bit different than the actual event happening on the ground by numbers of al Qaeda and the type of positions they had set up and so forth.

ENSOR: Still, the nation showed that it is ready to pay for victory, not just with money for smart weapons, but in blood. The president showed he is ready too.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I will not relent in this struggle for the freedom and security of my country and the civilized world.

ENSOR: For most of the six months since 9/11 though, the U.S. has relied on Afghan allies first cultivated by the CIA. Special operations units on the ground have helped find targets for aerial bombardment using precision-guided weapons. The strategy gets good reviews.

RETIRED GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think it's been a remarkably successful campaign from a military standpoint.

ENSOR: But the war on terrorism is only just starting. U.S. forces are moving in to help against terrorists in far-flung places like the Philippines, Georgia, Yemen. Officials get a little testy when asked about why they can't find al Qaeda's famous leader.

BLITZER: You still don't have a clue about where Osama bin Laden is.

RUMSFELD: I didn't say that.

BLITZER: You do have a clue?

RUMSFELD: No, I didn't say that either. We're looking for him. We're ultimately going to find him. Wherever he is, he is not happy.

ENSOR: It will take more than brave soldiers and smart weapons to win the war on terrorism. The U.S. must be ready, analysts say, to spend time and money winning the hearts and minds of disaffected young people in Islamic countries.

RETIRED GENERAL WILLIAM NASH, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: We also need to work diplomatically, politically, economically, and as I say socially to alleviate the conditions that allow terrorists to grow and be supported. CLARK: We know we can't win this war just by killing people. You never can.

ENSOR (on camera): The military campaign in Afghanistan gets all the attention because it is visible. But most analysts say the long- term law enforcement and intelligence war is what will decide whether terrorism will be defeated. To beat al Qaeda will take patience and generosity in the form of aid and investment in the Muslim world, not just bombs and bullets.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So has the war against terrorism been successful so far, and what lies ahead? Joining me here in the CNN WAR ROOM, retired General George Joulwan, he's the former supreme allied commander of NATO; and James Woolsey, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Remember, you can e-mail your WAR ROOM questions to us. Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can also read my daily online column.

And let me begin, General, with you. First of all, what's been the biggest surprise, the six-month war, to you so far, if there's been a surprise?

RETIRED GENERAL GEORGE JOULWAN, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Well, I think both pleasingly surprising to me has been how rapidly we've been able to move our forces, to get in position and within a little over three weeks from the time the sneak attack came here on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, we were responding. And quickly, we developed a global strategy to take al Qaeda on in several different countries. And to me, that's been a very good sign, a very positive outcome of this campaign.

BLITZER: Have you been surprised by anything, director?

JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I'd have to say the thing I'm most surprised by is President Putin. His quick...

BLITZER: The Russian president.

WOOLSEY: Yes. His quick call to President Bush, his acquiescence over his own national security people and our moving into central Asia, his acquiescence to the ABM Treaty being stepped out of by the United States, and most recently, his acquiescence to our moving into Georgia. I think he's done a lot to change the face of American-Russian relations, and I didn't expect it.

BLITZER: A lot of people say the biggest failure, General, has been the failure to find Osama bin Laden.

JOULWAN: I hope we will not focus on one individual. I know that's easy to say. I think we're doing it right. We're trying to eliminate the hard-core soldiers that are still in Afghanistan. In time, we will find Osama bin Laden. I could just relate in Colombia going after Escobar, it took over a year and a half until we brought that narco terrorist to justice and that was done by the Colombian police. So I think our intelligence needs to work, but we should not gauge success here by weather we have Osama bin Laden.

BLITZER: So what's your biggest disappointment?

JOULWAN: Biggest disappointment to me it's going to be on the next phase in preparing for this next phase. We seem to want to distance ourselves with the international security force going in there. As your reporter rightly briefed, that is a critical part of this. We've got to make sure we do it right. We have not done it right in Bosnia and the Balkans and we need to do it right in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: What's your biggest disappointment, Director?

WOOLSEY: Although our NATO allies invoked Article Five of the NATO Charter and they supported us verbally...

JOULWAN: First time ever.

WOOLSEY: Yes, first time ever. I've been disappointed in reaction particularly of the French and German foreign ministers, and Mr. Patton, essentially the foreign minister of the EU, and the fact that only the British really have had forces that they were able to use with us on the ground. Now, the allies have natives there, and a few allied troops have been fighting in this recent, and some have been killed.

BLITZER: A few Canadians too, right?

WOOLSEY: Yes, and we're grateful for what they have been able to do. The fact they don't have smart weapons, they don't have the command and the control, they don't have even the special forces that can work with us and the British I think has been something of a disappointment.

BLITZER: I interviewed the chairman of the joint chief of staffs, General Richard Myers, and I asked him six months from now, where do you think the operation will be. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Six months from now you could envision, nobody can know for certain, but you can envision that our major effort in Afghanistan might be over, that we would probably be in the middle of helping train an Afghan national army.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Where do you believe six months from now, general, the U.S. military will be?

JOULWAN: I think we'll be in several different countries trying to continue to take the fight to the enemy. Why I say that's important, so we can get our act together here at home on the homeland security front. We have to keep them disrupted, we have to delay his operations, and that means I think we're going to be in several different countries around the world six months from now, as well as trying to do reconstruction in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: What about six months from now, where do you think the U.S. will be?

WOOLSEY: Well, I think we will be just exactly where General Joulwan said, but I would also hope, frankly, that we'd be in Baghdad welcoming a Democratic government to Iraq.

BLITZER: Do you think that's realistic?

WOOLSEY: It may be a bit of a stretch in six months, but I'm not sure it's a stretch in nine.

BLITZER: A lot of -- a lot of talk right now, General Joulwan, about Iraq. I want to bring in about what President Bush said today at the White House, because there was a veiled threat to Saddam Hussein in his remarks. Listen to what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Some states that sponsor terror or seeking or already possess weapons of mass destruction. Terrorists groups are hungry for these weapons, and would use them without a hint of conscience. And we know that these weapons in the hands of terrorists would unleash blackmail and genocide and chaos. These facts cannot be denied. And must be confronted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: When he says, general, that they must be confronted, these facts, that sounds like a threat to Saddam Hussein.

JOULWAN: I think it's very important we threaten him. I think it's very important we keep him off guard and make it very clear what our intentions are. To take a leap into when we're going to commit the force that may be necessary, I'm not sure that we're ready to do that at the moment. Six months, nine months, a year from now, but it's very important to focus on this clear threat to not only Afghanistan, but to that entire region.

BLITZER: You know, the whole issue of Iraq, Tony Blair, the British prime minister today seemed to side with the U.S. as you point out, a lot of other European leaders are not. Now listen to what Tony Blair, the British prime minister said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Let's be under no doubt whatever, Saddam Hussein has acquired weapons of mass destruction over a long period of time. He's the only leader in the world that's actually used chemical weapons against his own people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: But he's a minority in Europe isn't he?

WOOLSEY: Well, but he has the Italians, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) minister Barisconi (ph) with him, the Spaniards are our new allies in the East. Poland and the others. The real feet-draggers here are Paris, Berlin and Brussels. They are, but much of the rest of Europe sounds more like Tony Blair.

BLITZER: The Russians are also along those lines as well, right?

WOOLSEY: Well, the Russians I think are mainly worried about money. They don't want to use the $7 billion plus that they're owed by Iraq. They want to have their oil companies in Iraq. But I don't think they regard Saddam as a client or even feel as strongly about this as the French and Germans do.

BLITZER: General, you were talking about homeland security earlier. Our homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve is reporting that tomorrow morning based on her congressional sources, the homeland security director Tom Ridge will announce a five-prong alert status situation here in the United States, five levels, normal being green, guarded -- blue, elevated -- yellow, high -- orange, severe -- red.

It's sort of based on the defense condition, defcon one, two, three. Is that a good idea to alert local law enforcement authorities with a color-coded status?

JOULWAN: Whatever system you have, you need a system. I think it's where we really need to get on with it. The disjointedness between the federal, state and local responders is something that needs to be corrected. That's what I meant by getting our act together here at home. This is the first step in doing it, and I applaud the effort.

BLITZER: What do you think about this?

WOOLSEY: I agree. I think it sounds reasonable to have some gradation. You are not always going to guess it right, but at least people have some kind of feel for how intensely you think these threats may be developing. I think it's a good development.

BLITZER: But you have to come up with specific definitions for each level.

WOOLSEY: Sure. And part of the problem is intelligence often doesn't give you -- very rarely gives you time and place and specifics of a threat. It may give you the time but not the place, or the specifics but neither the time nor the place. This lets you at least take account of that sort of uncertainty.

JOULWAN: Make no mistake about it. We have, if I can call it a failure, the idea of coordination here at home with intelligence sharing, with who responds, that really is broken and needs to be fixed. The sooner we get on with that, the better off our people in our nation are going to be. I think Ridge is moving in that direction, and I applaud the effort, but it's going to take a concerted effort by all Americans to understand that this is absolutely necessary. Before September 11 terrorism was an operation other than war. Now it is war. I think we have to understand that.

BLITZER: General Joulwan, Director Woolsey, thanks for joining us on this six-month mark. Appreciate it.

JOULWAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Remember I'd like to hear from you as well. Please go to my Web page at CNN.com/wolf. Click on the designation for comments. I'll read them, as will my producers. And this note, I'll return at the top of the hour at 8:00 p.m. Eastern for a "LIVE FROM THE PENTAGON" program.

You'll meet a man who thought he worked in the safest man in the world. He was the only survivor in his office at the Pentagon right behind me.

And when we come back, in their own words, U.S. troops talk about the war they're fighting in Afghanistan. As we go to break, we leave you with a view of New York City and ground zero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

You've been hearing for months about the broad scope of the war on terrorism. But for U.S. forces in Afghanistan, the war often boils down to what lies behind the next hill. Here now they offer some of their own perspectives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: We've been called on to fight the war on terrorism. You are part of that fight. You need to be proud of yourself. You're representing your country.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: Right when we got into the valley, we got ready to land, everything was pretty calm. The bird landed, we got off, set up security. As soon as the bird took off, we automatically started receiving fire.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: I was thinking it was a joke really, I mean, because we weren't really taking it real serious to start with. The first couple of rounds, we were just like, what was that, you know, are they serious? They're actually -- because they were supposed to have bombed the whole area before we went in. But after that, yes, it was nuts. Everyone was down, moving as fast as possible to get behind cover. And we started taking, you know, casualties for the most part.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: You can hear them when they set them off, when they fire them. But you can't really tell by any sound where they're going to land or anything like that. So basically you just sit there. Once you hear it fire, you just prepare yourself and hope it doesn't hit you.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: Maybe an hour before sunset, they had us pinned in at all four sides. And the mortar system, they weren't -- they weren't really zeroing in. They were just dropping round after round. And one would hit right after the other. And it got to a point we were all down in between the little waddie (ph) and just luckily, a mortar round never landed there.

When nightfall came in, Inspector Gunship (ph) came in, took everything out and we were able to get the casualties out. In the process of getting casualties out, we had fire from one more ridgeline. The specter (ph) went in and took it out. And then they brought in two Chinooks and two Apache gunships to protect us. We didn't receive any fire getting out.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: They helped us. I mean, if it wasn't for them, I don't think any of us would have come out alive, if it wasn't for them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were they doing?

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: Everywhere from the Apache to the C- 130s or the B-52s that were flying by, taking care of like the positions we couldn't see.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think when you got on board that helicopter?

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: I couldn't believe that we were on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once you were free and clear of that?

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: I fell asleep. Everybody did. The whole bird was asleep. We had been up for over 24 hours fighting. So it takes a lot out of you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And coming up, Israeli tanks and soldiers descend on a Gaza refugee camp, and the result is more bloodshed. Stay with us for our top story. That's coming up right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

The deadly wave of violence in the Middle East has claimed yet more victims. At least 13 Palestinians were killed in a firefight with Israeli forces. The violence erupted after Israeli tanks and soldiers moved into a Palestinian refugee camp in Gaza. At the same time -- now you're seeing live pictures of Israeli tanks that have entered the West Bank city of Ramallah. According to one source, the tanks were moving in the direction of the Alamari (ph) refugee camp. We'll continue to follow both of these military assaults in the coming hours.

But that's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow twice at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll be back at the top of the hour in 30 minutes with "LIVE FROM THE PENTAGON."

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer at the Pentagon. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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