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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Operation Anaconda Comes to End; Vice President in Middle of Israeli/Palestinian Conflict

Aired March 18, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: THE WAR ROOM, Operation Anaconda comes to an end, but the war rages on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. JOHN ROSA, DEPUTY OPERATIONS DIRECTOR, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Well, we're still actively pursuing al Qaeda and Taliban personnel throughout Afghanistan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Vice President Cheney is caught up in the Israeli- Palestinian conflict. Has that hurt his effort to drum up support for a strike against Iraq? We'll go to the Pentagon and to Jerusalem, and I'll speak with the number two man at the State Department, Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage, and a leading authority on Osama bin Laden, international terrorism expert Roland Jacquard, as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

One battle in Afghanistan ends, but more are on the way. U.S. officials say those next battles are likely to move from the mountains to the cities, and they say that could mean even greater U.S. casualties.

The Pentagon, meanwhile, made it official, Operation Anaconda is over.

Let's go live to our military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, for the latest. Jamie?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this mission, Operation Anaconda, to surround and then eliminate a large number of Taliban and al Qaeda, has been declared a success, even though the Pentagon can't say how many enemy forces are killed and how many got away.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): This video from a U.S. Navy F-18 shows the Operation Anaconda squeeze play. Fleeing al Qaeda are bombed as they try to escape the battle zone. After more than two weeks, the Pentagon has declared victory.

ROSA: I think we showed that we are committed and we are ready to take them on, American forces, head-on, if needed. Strategically, we also got them on the run.

MCINTYRE: However, "on the run" wasn't one of the goals when the operation was announced two weeks ago.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We intend to continue the operation until those al Qaeda and Taliban who remain are either surrendered or killed. The choice is theirs.

MCINTYRE: Initially, U.S. commanders thought it might take just two or three days to capture or kill some 200 al Qaeda diehards in the mountains. But initial estimates were wrong. Pentagon officials now believe there were about 1,000 enemy fighters in the 70-square-mile area. The Pentagon's internal estimates say between 500 and 700 al Qaeda and Taliban were killed. That would still leave 300 or so who either escaped or are in hiding. The Pentagon doesn't know.

VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: Given the nature of the terrain and the porousness of the border, are ones and twos probably melting into the countryside or slipping over the border? Possibly. But we have not seen significant numbers.

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon insists Operation Anaconda is a clear success even if it can't say for sure how many enemy were really eliminated.

ROSA: We may never know, Jamie, exactly how many. And I think the secretary on Friday said it exactly right, "We're not counting bodies from up here."

MCINTYRE: The U.S. says 16 people were killed and two captured near Gardez over the weekend, who were thought to be trying to escape. U.S. troops in MH-47 helicopters attacked a convoy of three vehicles who returned fire in response to warning shots. A fourth vehicle carrying women and children was stopped but then allowed to proceed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): Some local Afghans are questioning U.S. claims of hundreds of enemy killed. If that's so, they ask, where are the bodies? Only a few dozen have been found.

The Pentagon says some of those bodies may be trapped in caves or have been incinerated by powerful bombs. Others may be in graves or in simply remote areas where they can't get to.

The bottom line is this, though, the Pentagon says this battle may be over, but the war is not.

Wolf?

BLITZER: And Jamie, one thing that apparently is over, those combat air patrols over New York City that have been in effect since September 11. Why are they cutting back over New York but not over Washington, D.C.?

MCINTYRE: Well, the Pentagon has been dying to cut these back for months now, but they've been worried about doing it, especially until security improvements could be made on the ground. But the Pentagon insists that this is the least cost-effective way. There's not really much those fighter planes can do.

As for why they're going to cut them back in New York and put them on strip alert, keep them flying here in Washington, Pentagon officials simply say, Well, this is the nation's capital, the president and members of Congress, the top lawmakers, are all here. This will be the last place they cut back.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thank you very much.

Meanwhile, several U.S. servicemen who fought during Operation Anaconda won recognition for their heroism today. They were awarded the Bronze Star by General Tommy Franks. He's commander of the U.S. campaign in Afghanistan.

CNN's Martin Savidge spoke with one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. MICHAEL PETERSON, U.S. ARMY: Actually, the fighting here for me has been much more intense. It's definitely a light infantry fight. The enemy here is -- I mean, they're not that good, they're actually poor marksmen. But they're fanatics, so it's been much more heavy fighting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Sergeant First Class Michael Peterson leads a mortar platoon in Afghanistan.

In the Middle East, Vice President Dick Cheney is wrapping up a trip aimed in large part at building support for military action against Iraq. But at every stop, he found himself sidetracked by another burning issue.

Our senior White House correspondent John King is traveling with the vice president and reports from Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Vice President Cheney in Israel, in exactly the situation he had hoped to avoid in the middle of difficult ceasefire negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians.

First, an update from presidential envoy Anthony Zinni. Then, a vice president walking a delicate line, on the one hand, telling Prime Minister Sharon it is time to ease economic restrictions on the Palestinians, on the other making clear White House exasperation with the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We continue to call up Chairman Arafat to live up to his commitments, to renounce once and for all the use of violence as a political weapon, and to exert a 100 percent effort to sand (ph) out terrorism.

KING: General Zinni convened a meeting of Palestinian and Israelis security chiefs, and later there was an evening session of local Israeli and Palestinian commanders in Bethlehem. No ceasefire, but some progress.

U.S. sources say Israel agreed to withdraw troops from five areas it took control of in the past two weeks, three near Bethlehem and two in the West Bank.

But the Palestinians want more, an Israeli pullback to positions in place before this latest intifada began back in September 2000.

Israel says a broader troop pullback is for later negotiations after there is a ceasefire, and proof it can hold.

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The terrorists, their dispatchers, and those who sponsor them must have no immunity or refuge.

KING: It was a day for the Cheney camp to experience firsthand the confusion and always shifting lines of the Israelis-Palestinian dispute. On Sunday, Mr. Cheney said he hoped to land in Israel to word of a ceasefire, and earlier Monday in Kuwait City, he even left the door open to a meeting with Mr. Arafat if General Zinni thought it would help.

But top advisers now say a Cheney-Arafat meeting is most unlikely and insist the vice president never intended to take a direct role in negotiations. That more detached posture came after U.S. negotiators here told the vice president the levels of mistrust are as high as they can remember.

(on camera): Senior U.S. officials now say there is virtually no hope of a ceasefire deal before the vice president departs on Tuesday. They say they are cautiously optimistic an agreement can be reached over the next several days.

John King, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And for more on the situation in the Middle East, be sure to watch CNN's special report at 8:00 p.m. Eastern for an exclusive Larry King interview with Jordan's King Abdullah. That's a special "LARRY KING LIVE," 8:00 p.m. Eastern, at the top of the hour.

So will Iraq be the next target of the U.S. campaign against terrorism? Earlier today, I spoke with the number two man at the State Department, Deputy Secretary Richard Armitage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) Mr. Secretary, thanks so much for joining us.

Let's get right to the issue at hand, the vice president's efforts to try to drum up support for possible action against Saddam Hussein in Iraq. How much of a distraction has the entire Israeli- Palestinian crisis been to his mission?

RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, Mr. Blitzer, I don't think the Vice President is a Johnny-one-note. His mission to the Middle East had three elements, bilateral relationships, the enhancement of those, support for the war, Operation Enduring Freedom, and lastly to plumb the thinking on the Middle East peace process and the situation in Iraq.

Now, clearly the peace process and the plight of the Palestinians does play to the Arab streets, and thus it is a factor.

BLITZER: So what would you say, is he -- because at least publicly, the message we're hearing from most of the Arab leaders with whom he's met is this, don't go after Saddam Hussein, that would undermine the U.S. stance throughout the Arab world.

ARMITAGE: Well, I think we'll let the vice president come back and brief the president on the status of his discussions. But as a general matter, I think the discussions, or rather, the public statements, are more nuanced than that. They have an element of the need to move on with the peace process before we consider more robust elements against Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting that what he hears in private from some of these leaders is not necessarily the same as what they are saying publicly?

ARMITAGE: Well, that's not unknown in the history of diplomacy, and certainly not unknown in the Middle East. But I think you're again focusing on the supposition that Iraq is the only agenda item for the vice president's trip, and I'm suggesting that's not at all the case.

BLITZER: Well, as you know, the president referred to Iraq, Iran, North Korea as the so-called axis of evil. Let me be blunt. How close is the United States, the Bush administration, to taking action against Saddam Hussein?

ARMITAGE: Well, Secretary Powell has stated most recently in Congress testimony that there's no plan, military plan, on the president's desk. The president has been equally, I think, accurate and correct and to the point when he said that we're going to have to deal with Iraq, but we'll deal with Iraq in a time and place and manner of his choosing, that is, our president's.

So it's something we're going to have to deal with, but the time has not been decided.

BLITZER: But if the Iraqis continue to refuse to allow U.N. weapons inspection teams back in, will that be enough of a justification for the U.S. to launch military action?

ARMITAGE: Well, that's a decision that rests with the president. But I would suggest that a nation which has used weapons of mass destruction against their own population, who has an affection for terrorism, and has invaded their neighbors, if the international community were to believe that weapons of mass destruction were being further developed, I think many nations, not just the United States, would be calling for more robust action against Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: You still haven't given up on the whole weapons inspection process. As you know, some critics, like Senator Fred Thompson of Tennessee and others, say it's simply a waste of time because he could hide weapons, and he can keep you preoccupied for years in the meantime, Saddam Hussein would expand his weapons of mass destruction capability, possibly including nuclear capability.

ARMITAGE: Well, I think (UNINTELLIGIBLE) seeing the nature of the inspection regime, but if we thought we were being played with, or the international community was being played with, I think that President Bush certainly wouldn't put up with that for very long.

BLITZER: What kind of evidence, if any, does the U.S. government have of a connection between the Iraqi government and al Qaeda?

ARMITAGE: Well, there were some reports of a meeting in Czechoslovakia some time ago regarding an al Qaeda operative and some representatives of the government of Iraq, but I don't know personally of any other direct links with al Qaeda.

BLITZER: That would be a meeting between Mohamed Atta, the alleged mastermind of the September 11 hijackings, and Iraq -- and a senior Iraqi intelligence official. Do you know for sure that that meeting did take place?

ARMITAGE: No, I just saw reports of that.

BLITZER: If you're looking at the whole situation of Iraq and al Qaeda, are you suggesting that this "New Yorker" article -- I don't know if you've seen it, by Jeffrey Goldberg, saying there's much more of a connection there than previously known, are you trying to suggest that that probably is not accurate?

ARMITAGE: No, I haven't seen the article, and I'd have to take a look at what the author suggests. But I would suggest that we're constantly looking for a tie-in between the Iraqis and al Qaeda, and if we stumble across them, then that'll be more to add to the bill of particular against Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: So you've been looking but you still haven't found anything really hard, is that what you're saying?

ARMITAGE: Not yet, but I'll be interested to look at this article.

BLITZER: What about the entire Israeli-Palestinian crisis that's unfolding right now? We know the vice president is there, General Zinni, the special envoy, is there. Would it be a good idea for the Israelis to allow the Palestinian Authority president, Yasser Arafat, to go to Beirut at the end of this month for the Arab summit?

ARMITAGE: Well, I think that's a decision that Prime Minister Sharon and his colleagues are going to have to make. It might be appropriate that Chairman Arafat travel to Beirut. I note that the situation is mildly better this weekend than last. Fatalities and injuries are down 75 percent. So this is a good sign, and hopefully we can capitalize on it.

BLITZER: Do you think that their -- they will be able to achieve a ceasefire any time soon?

ARMITAGE: Look, Mr. Blitzer, like you, I've had a long experience in the Middle East, and I don't describe myself as optimistic or pessimistic, but rather realistic. And this is a game of inches, it's not a game in which a Hail Mary pass is thrown. And so we'll make the decision about a ceasefire at a more appropriate time. We're not there yet.

BLITZER: And finally, while I have you, the Sunday attack at that Protestant Church, very near the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, five people killed, two of them Americans, one wife of a diplomat, an administrative assistant to the embassy and her 17-year-old daughter. Any word on who was responsible for that attack?

ARMITAGE: No, that heinous attack, which took from the State Department family two of our members, is being investigated. We've interviewed over 40 people thus far. There were about 150 people in the church, so there's a lot more investigation has to take place. We have one unidentified body. It could be that of the attacker. And the investigation continues.

BLITZER: Richard Armitage, the number two man at the State Department, the deputy secretary of state, thanks for joining us, as usual.

ARMITAGE: Thank you, Mr. Blitzer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And when we come back, unraveling some of the mystery surrounding Osama bin Laden.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Is Osama bin Laden still alive? His half-brother believes so, but he does not believe bin Laden was behind the September 11 attacks. Sheik Ahmed Mohammed does not speak for the entire clan, which disinherited Osama bin Laden many years ago. He and bin Laden have the same mother, different fathers.

In an exclusive interview with CNN's Rula Amin, Sheik Ahmed spoke of their mother's emotions. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMED MOHAMMED, OSAMA BIN LADEN'S HALF-BROTHER (voice of translator): It's my mother who is worried most, God be with her. She is the most worried about him, 24 hours she is worried about him, concerned for him. She's the only one who is constantly thinking of him, more than any of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Osama bin Laden's half-brother talks about their childhood, their most recent visit together, and what he thinks of Osama right now, a CNN exclusive on "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN." That's at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.

So where is Osama bin Laden, and how big a threat is he still posing by his al Qaeda network? My guest may be able to shed some light. His most recent book is entitled "In the Name of Osama bin Laden: Global Terrorism and the bin Laden Brotherhood."

Joining me now from New York, Roland Jacquard. He's a consultant on terrorism to the U.N. Security Council. You can e-mail your WAR ROOM questions to us. Go to our Web page, cnn.com/wolf, that's also where you can read my daily column.

Monsieur Jacquard, thank you very much for joining us.

I assume you believe Osama bin Laden is still alive. If so, where do you believe he is?

ROLAND JACQUARD, TERRORISM EXPERT: He's probably still alive in Afghanistan, because, you know, this kind of Islamist terrorist, you cannot leave the country when you are begin the jihad. It's like is an executive order from an Islamic god. And a lot of people think that he's still in Afghanistan, maybe at the border with the Pakistan.

BLITZER: One of the quotations that I found in your book, I'd like to read it to our viewers. Among other things, you write this, "This is why Osama bin Laden's terrorist networks were able to strike the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon ruthlessly, easily, and at little cost, because they are dispersed or, more precisely, because they can emerge anywhere in a few hours or a few days, because they expect nothing material from their network or their leaders, neither financial assistance nor reward."

Monsieur Jacquard, the question is this. Does the al Qaeda network now still have that capability?

JACQUARD: Yes, unfortunately, I think that they still are very dangerous. And you have from the 11th of September a lot of weapons, a lot of cash money, even golds, transferred from Afghanistan to a lot of countries. And you have also a lot of chief of al Qaeda as they escape from Pakistan, for example, Abu Zubeda (ph) is a chief of the external operations for al Qaeda, is probably outside of Afghanistan, and this guy is very dangerous because he know also identities of the most important sleeping agent of al Qaeda in the world. And you have another one, he's an Egyptian, he's a colonel, Makawi (ph), he's has the post of Moa Metadev (ph), the chief of the military operations. He's probably outside of Afghanistan now.

BLITZER: In your book, you say you had access to the most recent will that was written by Osama bin Laden and delivered to people in Beirut and London in 2001, in October of 2001 last year. In that, you say this, the -- they -- you say that bin Laden warns in his will, "After me, the world of the infidels will never again leave -- live in peace." But the question is, does bin Laden in his will outline who his successors should be?

JACQUARD: If bin Laden, it's not in life, or (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I think al Qaeda survive with a lot of chief, not only one. It's not somebody can be a symbol like bin Laden, because bin Laden is from a rich family, he has fighting in Afghanistan against the Russia, after he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE), also he has a lot of money. He come back in Afghanistan to make a lot of training camps.

It's impossible to find the same symbol like him. But probably in al Qaeda they find two or three other chief like the doctor, Iman Al-Zawahiri, he's an Egyptian man, Klabu Zubeda (ph), a Saudi man, who is very, very dangerous.

BLITZER: Roland Jacquard, thank you so much for joining us. The book, "In the Name of Osama bin Laden." We appreciate it very much.

JACQUARD: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

And coming up, the widow of slain journalist Danny Pearl speaks out. We'll be back in just a moment with a check of the top stories. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In this hour's news alert, the widow of murdered journalist Daniel Pearl says the people who killed her husband will strike again. On PBS's "Newshour with Jim Lehrer," Mariane Pearl said the slaying was a declaration of war by terrorists, and she predicted it will not be the last such act.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIANE PEARL, WIDOW OF DANIEL PEARL: My feeling is that the killing of Danny was not an isolated act but part of a longer process, with, you know, with different, you know, acts of terrorism which goal is to paralyze us, to prevent any kind of collaboration between Pakistan, and maybe other countries, we don't know, and the West.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Mariane Pearl earlier today.

And that's all the time we have tonight. Please join me again tomorrow, twice, at both 5:00 and 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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