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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Suicide Bombing in Netanya Affects Arab Summit; Interview with Farid Abboud, Richard Perle

Aired March 27, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: THE WAR ROOM: another suicide bombing turns an Israeli hotel into a house of horror just as the Passover holiday begins.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're having tonight is a Passover massacre on one of the most sacred nights to Jewish life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The death toll rises as we get the first pictures back from Afghanistan's devastating earthquake. Rescue and relief a logistical nightmare. A Saudi peace plan is presented in Beirut as the Arab League Summit gets under way. What will it take to stop the killing in the Middle East and is U.S. credibility on the line? We'll speak live with Farid Abboud, Lebanon's ambassador to the U.S., Farid Abboud; Richard Perle, a former top decision maker in the Pentagon; and former assistant secretary of state Robert Pelletreau (ph) as we go into THE WAR ROOM.

Good evening. I'm Andrea Koppel in Washington. Wolf Blitzer is off. We'll get to our guests shortly. We'll also go live to Israel and the site of today's suicide attack. But first, this just in. Pioneering television comedian Milton Berle, known to all sorts of fans around the world for his television show, "Weekly Comedy Hour" for Texaco, is believed to have died. That according to his agent Warren Cohen. Milton Berle was 92.

And in a new twist on Iraq and the ongoing debate on where the war on terrorism should goes next. Our military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us now from the Pentagon. Good evening, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Andrea, Pentagon officials stress that President Bush has still made no decision about whether the U.S. should take military action against Iraq, but a senior Pentagon official tonight tells CNN that if the president were to give the order today, the Pentagon is not quite ready to go.

In fact, this senior official says that it may be months before the U.S. is ready to move against Iraq militarily. But one thing it says, it needs time to retool its ships, aircraft and weapons that are involved in the war in Afghanistan and needs to restock munitions. It has plenty of bombs but needs to move some around.

Plus, some of the troops involved need rest and the commander of the U.S. central command, General Tommy Franks, has said he would prefer not to launch a military option against Iraq in the heat of the summer. He says it takes too great a toll on equipment and men. That would seem to indicate that thing things would be put off until fall at least. But the president has told the Pentagon that he doesn't have any particular time table. They need to be ready wherever he says go -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Jamie, thanks very much.

A strong condemnation from around the world after a suicide bombing killed at least 19 people gathered for the Passover holiday at a seaside hotel in Netanya, Israel. The Islamic group Hamas is claiming responsibility for the attack, which wounded more than 130 people. Mike Hanna, our Jerusalem bureau chief is live in Jerusalem now with the latest. Good evening, Mike.

MIKE HANNA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Andrea. This one of the most devastating terror attacks in 18 months of virtually continuous violence since this Palestinian uprising or intefada began.

The explosion occurred when a Palestinian man walked past an armed security guard into the hotel, the Park Hotel in Netanya and detonated an explosive device. We're looking now at the first pictures coming from the scene. These pictures received within the last few minutes, which show that show that some nine hours after this bombing took place, the work is still going on in terms of sifting through the rubble.

The full impact of what happened in what was once a banqueting hall now clearly beginning to be felt. This area once thronged with happy people celebrating the first night of the Jewish Passover, the traditional Satyr which marks the beginning of the week-long holiday, those celebrations turned into scenes of utter devastation with the suicide bomb attack.

Police have confirmed that the death toll is now 19 Israelis killed in this bomb blast, well over 130 have been injured. And a large number of these are said by hospital authorities to still be in a very severe condition. The Palestinian Authority has condemned the blast saying it will hunt down those who helped plan it. But Israel says it's the Palestinian Authority that must accept responsibility because the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, has not done enough to clamp down on the activities of militants.

But no regrets from Hamas. A spokesman for the movement of which the armed wing claimed to have planned and carried out the attack said this was in retaliation for what he called Israeli state terror. Well, the man who carried out the attack has been identified by Hamas as a Hamas member from the West Bank town of Tulkarem. Tulkarem a matter of miles away from Netanya itself.

Netanya has been the scene of frequent terror attacks in the past few weeks and indeed months, security officials say because of its close proximity to the West Bank, because of the ease of those who want to carry out terror attacks are able to move from West Bank towns and villages into Israel proper. Terror attacks Netanya has experienced, but not quite of this scale, none quite of this devastation, Andrea.

KOPPEL: A real tragedy. Mike, thanks so much. Mike Hanna in Jerusalem. We'll have more on the Netanya bombing later tonight when Mike Hanna is live from Israel beginning 8:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Reverberations from today's bombing attack were felt in Beirut where the Arab league summit is holding its annual summit with some notable absences. CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is following the summit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Arab summit here in Beirut suffered quite a lot of blows on its opening day. Certainly a big blow against its show of Arab unity. Two main leaders, the president of Egypt and the King of Jordan, two of the countries, the only countries that have made peace with Israel, refused to come to this summit.

At one point Yasser Arafat was due to address the summit live. Then the plug was pulled, literally, on the live transmission. It is not clear exactly why. In any event that prompted the Palestinian delegation to walk out. Now, Arafat, we're told, has been given the choice to address this summit on Thursday, the final day. And the Palestinian delegation is coming back to the talks.

Now, on a substantive level, this summit was all about the Saudi peace initiative. The much talked about initiative that offers for first time full Arab recognition of Israel's right to exist, an end to the conflict, and full normalization of relations between the Arab countries and Israel in return for Israel withdrawing to the 1967 borders, giving the Palestinians a state with its capital east Jerusalem and a mention of the right of return of refugees.

The proposal, we're being told, will be unanimously endorsed in a final communique which will be on Thursday here. Once the delegates issue that final communique in their final statement. But it remains to be seen just how this proposal, even if it is endorsed, will have any chance of actually succeeding, particularly as at the end of today, the end of the opening ceremonies came that news of that suicide bombing attack in Israel which was being condemned here by the Palestinian Authority delegation.

I'm Christiane Amanpour, CNN, reporting from Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: In the middle of all of this, the Bush Administration, which has become increasingly involved in the effort to find peace as the fighting continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) (voice-over): News of the latest attack drew sharp words from President Bush, who directed the full force of his outrage at Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I call upon Mr. Arafat and the Palestinian Authority to do everything in their power to stop the terrorist killing, because there are people in the Middle East who would rather kill than have peace.

KOPPEL: The Passover attack, the latest setback in recently stepped up yet so far unsuccessful U.S. efforts to broker a cease- fire. Two weeks into his mission, special Middle East envoy General Anthony Zinni has made little progress. Arafat refusing to take the first step toward any truce, despite offers of a meeting with Vice President Cheney. Israel refusing to let Arafat attend the Arab summit without a cease fire already in place.

Despite pressure from President Bush to let Arafat go in order to endorse a Saudi peace plan. Among other summit no-shows, key players in any Arab-Israeli peace deal; Egypt's President Mubarak, and Jordan's King Abdullah.

NED WALKER, PRES. MIDDLE EAST INST.: I think the Arab leaders are concerned that what the Administration is doing here is really the back door into Iraq and they don't know exactly how committed the administration is to solving this problem with the Palestinians.

KOPPEL: But with the body count rising on both sides and no end in sight, the Bush Administration recently revised its hands-off policy. With U.S. strategic interests and U.S. prestige at steak, move from the sidelines to center field.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

As for what comes next, a senior State Department official sighed, implying no one knew. He said it's not like a game where you have a play book, and flip the page and call the next play. When it comes to brokering a deal, he said, between Israel and the Palestinians it's just not that easy.

Joining me in the WAR ROOM, Farid Abboud, the Lebanese ambassador to the U.S. And Richard Perle, resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute and former assistant secretary of defense for international security policy. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me.

Ambassador Abboud, I'd like to begin with you. We've seen President Bush call on the Israeli prime minister to let Yasser Arafat go to the summit. Vice President Cheney has been in the region. We have seen also Anthony Zinni for the last two weeks plodding away. What more does the Arab world need to see the United States do before it's convinced it's serious about peace?

FARID ABBOUD, LEBANESE AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: But we have no doubt that the United States is serious. But what would have been suitable would have been that Mr. Sharon would have complied with the U.S. request, and he did not. So there was really not the result which was expected from the Arabs.

At any rate, the fact that President Arafat did not join the summit didn't stop the summit from functioning, and there was a very important proposal, a very important platform for a peaceful approach in the future. And that was proposed by the Crown Prince Abdullah. And that is a basic fundamental proposal in which the Arabs have offered peace against withdrawal to the '67 -- to the line of the '67 border.

KOPPEL: But Richard Perle, the big guns weren't there. The Egyptian president, the Jordanian king, Yasser Arafat himself. Does that piece of paper mean anything?

RICHARD PERLE, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: No, I don't think that piece of paper means anything at all. Nor do I think there's going to be any kind of agreement rising out of the current diplomatic process, so long as every day young men pack themselves with explosives and go into civilian gatherings and kill randomly. Until that violence stops, there isn't a prayer for any kind of peaceful resolution in this dispute.

KOPPEL: Ambassador Abboud, we've heard the Arab world call on the United States to do more, to speak out against Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. Why is not the Lebanese prime minister and other Arab leaders doing the same? Why are they not speaking out publicly, calling on Yasser Arafat to do everything in his power to end the suicide attacks that Richard Perle was alluding to?

ABBOUD: I think all of the Arab leaders are very willing to reach a situation where the violence would stop.

KOPPEL: But not publicly.

ABBOUD: We are, actually, there are publicly calling -- not on Arafat (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We don't think that it would be very useful to put all the onus on one side and not on the other when civilians on both sides are being killed. And it is not true that the Israelis are killing civilians simply as collateral of ongoing military activity. Sometimes they are deliberate attacks on civilians on both sides.

PERLE: I beg your pardon. You find the single instance of an Israeli going to a civilian gathering, to a discotheque, to a pizza parlor, to a gathering of that sort and blowing the place up with a view to killing civilians. Find me a single example.

ABBOUD: There are other methods of killing civilians deliberately, with, you know, helicopters, planes or other weapons.

PERLE: Targeting civilians?

ABBOUD: Yes. Yes.

PERLE: I don't believe it. And if you have evidence, why don't you give me that evidence.

ABBOUD: No, I can just refer you to the Betsaram (ph) report, or the Amnesty International reports or other -- or actually the letters signed by the Israeli reservists and soldier officers, who have said that there were some cases in which orders were given which really would lead to civilians being, you know, targeted or killed.

PERLE: Orders which might lead to -- let me just say, there is a world of difference between people who are sent into discotheques to kill teenagers and the fact that as the Israelis retaliate and attempt to bring terror under control there are sometimes civilian casualties. The Israelis regret every civilian casualty. And on the Palestinian side, civilian casualties are their purpose, their objective and their tactic.

KOPPEL: Let me put this before you, gentlemen. This is an e- mail from Monty from Chicago, Illinois, and it speaks to that very point. "How would the rest of the Arab world react if Israel launched a strong military retaliation against the Palestinians in response to today's suicide bombing in Netanya?" It's something that the Israeli government has as much as implied it will do?

ABBOUD: The Israelis have done in it the past in my country. And they have launched deliberate attacks on civilian targets, and civilians were killed.

KOPPEL: But that was 20 years now, and I'm talking about now.

ABBOUD: No, no, even recently, when they attacked, you know, the power plants in retaliation for attack in northern Israel. Actually, in southern Lebanon against military units in Lebanon.

I think the problem is that this situation can change if there is a political solution to it, and not if there is a police solution to it. You cannot ask one side simply to arrest people. That will not change it. What will change it is a political solution, which is perceived by both sides as addressing their grievances and as leading to some sort of a just settlement.

KOPPEL: Richard, I'm going to ask you to hold your thought until we come out of this break. Richard Perle will respond to Ambassador Abboud. And we'll also get to how today's attack might affect U.S. plans to go after Saddam Hussein and the rest of the war on terrorism. We'll continue with our discussion in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Welcome back. Joining me in the WAR ROOM, Lebanese ambassador to the United States, Farid Abboud, and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Richard Perle.

Richard Perle, I want to start with you. Before we went to the break, the question was why don't we get to a political solution now? And my question to you is, but we can't even get to a cease-fire, how are we going to get to a political...

PERLE: Well, I don't think we are going to get to a political solution. And the reason why we can't get to a cease-fire is that the chosen instrument of policy, the means of applying pressure to the Israelis is to recruit young men -- and now women -- arm them with explosives and send them in to destroy civilians. And the more, the better.

It is a deliberate policy of letting blood in the belief that somehow the United States will intervene in support of the Palestinian cause. And that would amount to submission to terror on a kind that this president will not accept.

KOPPEL: Ambassador Abboud, is the Arab world, is Lebanon, prepared to recognize the state of Israel and its right to exist?

ABBOUD: I think it has already been announced in this summit that the Arab world is ready to live in peace with Israel if Israel withdrew to the 1967 border. That was the crux of the Saudi proposal. And I think it will be formalized more -- I mean, in a very precise way, soon, before the end of this summit, and that's what the Arab world is proposing: Peace against the withdrawal until the 1967 war. And peace includes, of course, living in a peaceful situation.

But the problem that the peace which should be reached should address the grievances of all parties, not only the concerns of one party.

KOPPEL: OK. Gentlemen, let's look down the line. We'll go to another e-mail from Joseph in Greenland, New York. He says: "If Israel declares all out war on the Palestinians, how will the U.S. respond, and how would this impact a potential campaign against Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein?" Richard Perle.

PERLE: Well, I would hope that if the Israelis take measures to try to suppress suicide bombing against civilians, Israel will have the full support of the United States. It has up until now. I think the president understands that the war against terror, and we are talking about terror here, is global in scope. And I don't see how we can prosecute the war against terrorism and say to the Israelis they must accept our rules.

ABBOUD: Actions against the Palestinians in the past have increased like the occurrence of these actions such as the -- what happened yesterday. It is not the right method. The only right method is not a police measure. It is a political solution to the problem which would address...

PERLE: You mean cave in to terror?

ABBOUD: Not cave in. There is a political solution which would address the grievances of both sides. It is a fact of life that the Palestinians have a national identity, that they have a people who deserve to live like a normal country, like a state.

PERLE: Mr. Ambassador, are the suicide bombings not intended to produce a political change?

ABBOUD: Violence is one method used by both sides. It is not an acceptable static. It should change. But the way to change it is political solution and not police measures against one side. KOPPEL: And let me ask you this, because the U.S. is trying to mediate some kind of a solution. President Bush has already used the power of the White House. How much more should President Bush do? Don't you feel that his credibility is already on the line right now because Ariel Sharon ignored him as did Yasser Arafat?

ABBOUD: I think the administration can have a very important and constructive impact. It should be helped by the Jewish community in this country, who should understand also, and help everybody understand that Israel has come of age, that the time of conquest has past and that now it is time to live in peace with the Palestinian people who are treated as equal like the Israelis.

PERLE: The issue isn't living in peace with the Palestinian people. The issue is stopping this practice of attacking civilians in the largest numbers they can manage.

KOPPEL: And on that note, Richard Perle, I apologize for cutting you off, gentlemen, but we are out of time. I want to thank Farid Abboud, the Lebanese ambassador to the United States and Richard Perle from AEI for joining us this evening.

Remember, we want to hear from you. Go to Wolf's Web page at cnn.com/wolf and click on the designation for comments to Wolf and his producers.

Coming up, a rare glimpse of U.S. military operations in Afghanistan as special forces troops take control of al Qaeda prisoners. We'll be back in a moment with a check of the top stories. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Welcome back.

In Afghanistan, U.S. special forces made a sweep of two prison compounds and took custody of several Taliban and al Qaeda prisoners being held by Afghan forces. It was part of a day-long operation to track down information on suspected terrorists including Osama bin Laden.

Northern Afghanistan is still being hit by strong aftershocks from Monday's deadly earthquake. The aftershocks are causing landslides and blocking relief convoys to tens of thousands of homeless. Officials say the quake killed at least 1,800 people.

Well, that's all the time we have tonight. I'm Andrea Koppel in for Wolf Blitzer. Please join me again tomorrow at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks so much for watching. "CROSSFIRE" begins right now.

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