Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Israeli Troops Ambushed in West Bank; Is Second Taliban- American Off Hook?
Aired April 09, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Israeli troops walk into a deadly trap.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The president hopes that Prime Minister Sharon will end this operation quickly and start to remove the forces now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But the Israeli leader says he's not finished yet.
Is this Taliban-American now off the hook?
And in legal hot water, an American lawyer accused of helping a jailed terrorist.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We will not allow individuals to continue to perpetrate criminal acts or terrorist acts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A gun took a terrible toll on her family, but there's much more to the story of gun control activist Sarah Brady.
And the world's royalty and a million commoners bid a final farewell to Britain's queen mother.
It's Tuesday, April 9, 2002. Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. We are standing by this hour for President Bush to speak. We'll bring you that live when it happens. But first, in our "News Alert", Israeli troops walk into an ambush.
In a West Bank refugee camp, which had already become a killing ground, the toll rises. This time, 13 Israeli soldiers die in Jenin, ambushed in an alley packed with explosives during bitter house-to- house fighting. Refugees say scores of Palestinians have been killed in Jenin, which Israel calls a stronghold of suicide bombers.
Shrugging off U.S. demands for a prompt end to the military campaign, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Israel is fighting a battle for survival and vows the West Bank military offensive will continue until Israel destroys what it calls the terrorist infrastructure.
Now to the search for peace: Secretary of State Colin Powell today made it clear he does not intend -- he does in fact intend to meet with the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat. After talks in Egypt, Powell again called for a quick Israeli pullback, denying that his roundabout route to Israel was meant to buy time for Israel to finish its offensive. He will meet with Yasser Arafat.
Hezbollah guerrillas may have upped the ante today, firing a rocket from Lebanon into northern Israel. That came after guerrillas again attacked Israeli troops in a disputed border area, drawing Israeli artillery fire and airstrikes in southern Lebanon. The two sides have traded fire almost every day since Israel began its West Bank offensive.
In a back-alley ambush, the Israeli army suffers its worst casualty toll since the Palestinian revolt began 18 months ago. But, Prime Minister Sharon is in no hurry to end the military campaign in the West Bank. Let's begin with CNN's Bill Hemmer. He joins us now live from Jerusalem -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good evening from Jerusalem. Another brutal and bloody day today in the West Bank town of Jenin, as you just mentioned. The Israeli government, Israeli military confirming that 13 of their soldiers were killed earlier today in what they describe as an ambush in the old part of that city. They say the narrow, tight alleyways is where the fighting was taking place. And they Israeli troops were working their way through an area when a suicide bomber detonated himself and essentially set off a string of explosions throughout that alleyway.
Later, a short time later, Palestinian gunmen opened fire from the rooftops up above. In all, 13 Israeli soldiers dead, nine others wounded. The Palestinians are saying they have at least 150 dead in the town of Jenin alone. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon today called this day a dark day in the Middle East conflict.
Meanwhile, 24 hours ago, Wolf, we were talking about the initial stages of a partial withdraw out of two West Bank towns, Qalqilya and Tulkarem. By the sun-up this morning, tanks indeed were out of that city and Palestinians once again moving in and about those two towns. However, we do have reports that say some of those tanks essentially ringed those two cities and are still within easy striking distance of those two areas in the West Bank.
As that withdrawal did began in two areas, it essentially got underway in one other part, the town of Dura, another incursion today. Dura is located just south of Hebron in the West Bank, south of our location here in Jerusalem. The Israeli government saying they're looking for more weapons inside there and more wanted terrorist suspects that they say are now hiding out in the town of Dura.
Colin Powell will be here in about 48 hours time. He has a substantial job ahead of him. And, frankly, Israeli government sources earlier today saying what the area needs is a babysitter to watch both sides. They hope Colin Powell can be that very person, a babysitter in the Middle East -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Bill, as you know, a high-level Palestinian delegation is attempting to go to Ramallah to meet with the Palestinian Authority leader, Yasser Arafat. What are we hearing about that effort?
HEMMER: Yes, we hear a handful of Palestinian leaders will meet with Yasser Arafat. Should be a rather interesting picture too, Wolf, because Yasser Arafat still holed up inside that compound in Ramallah. We understand they will meet with Arafat in the morning, then later they'll meet with Anthony Zinni, the U.S. mediator. And then after that, they will go back to Yasser Arafat. But, bottom line, whether anything comes out of this is anybody's guess right now. Perhaps we will learn more as the day progresses tomorrow -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill Hemmer in Jerusalem, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, Israel's pullback from those two Palestinian towns apparently is not good enough in U.S. eyes, and the White House says President Bush is still looking for results. Let's go live to our senior White House correspondent, John King, for all of the latest on that -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the administration made that view clear to the Israelis today. We are told in several levels of contact, the highest level was a phone conversation, Secretary of State Powell when he was still in Cairo, Egypt this morning, Washington time, he called Prime Minister Sharon and said, yes, it was encouraging that Israel had pulled out of those two towns, but that fell far short of the president's demands for a complete withdraw.
It was hours after that, of course, that Prime Minister Sharon reacted to the deaths again of these 13 Israeli soldiers and said the military offensive would continue as necessary, so a point of strain and tension in U.S. and Israeli relations right now. We are expecting to hear from the president, as you noted, in a short time. He is meeting with the NATO Secretary-General, Lord Robertson, at the moment, perhaps a chance to question the president about that. Administration officials though, Wolf, because of these developments, lowering expectations, saying yes, the Powell journey continues. Secretary Powell saying today publicly for the first time, yes, he will meet Yasser Arafat, but some senior officials saying don't even expect a cease-fire from this high-level diplomatic trip. That might not even come about. They say the secretary, as much as he would like to broker one, is also looking ahead and trying to assess the long- term options because of the very delicate, very difficult situation he finds himself in.
BLITZER: John, is there anything that top administration officials, anything else they can do other than just berate, if you will, or speak publicly about Ariel Sharon? Any substantive pressure tactics they're thinking of, and I'm referring specifically to economic military aid, which the United States provides Israel an abundance of?
KING: Senior officials say no, they will not threaten the Israelis with any fundamental turn in the relationship. They had hoped for some progress. Yes, they said the withdraw from two towns was not enough.
What they hoped to do was wake up this morning, have an environment where you had no more attacks, or at least no more major attacks, and say Prime Minister Sharon, pull back further. Then, of course, you have 13 Israeli soldiers killed, so the administration finds itself in a box. It has said repeatedly Prime Minister Sharon has a right to defend Israel's sovereignty, has a right to defend his people. So on the one hand, Prime Minister Sharon reacting as any commander-in-chief might, if you will, after an attack on his troops. At the same time, the administration saying the only chance here of turning the temperature down a little bit, no one is talking about a peace process, they simply want a cease-fire, is to get those Israeli troops out of the Palestinian territories. No optimism that will happen in the short-term, very little optimism now indeed that it will happen in any significant way before Secretary Powell arrives in Jerusalem, and that could put him in a very difficult, some might say, embarrassing situation.
BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much. And as John just said, we're standing by for remarks by the president. He should be in the White House Roosevelt Room shortly. When those remarks occur, we will, of course, bring that to you live.
Meanwhile, charged with finding a way to reach a cease-fire, Secretary of State Colin Powell is taking his search for peace to Spain, where he will meet with European leaders. After meeting earlier with Egyptian leaders, he gave one clear indication of what he has in mind. Our state department correspondent, Andrea Koppel, is traveling with the secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Secretary Powell announced that he does intend to meet with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Before now, he had sort of left that very vague, saying that circumstances permitted. But it appears that the pressure from his meetings with various Arab leaders thus far has gotten through. They have been insisting that the U.S. meet with Yasser Arafat and now Powell says he will.
POWELL: President Bush wanted me to spend time in the region talking to our friends, the Egyptians, the Moroccans. We also had good conversations last evening with the Saudis, and I will go on to meet with European colleagues, Russian colleagues and Secretary- General Annan tomorrow in Madrid, and then back to meet with King Abdullah of Jordan and then into Jerusalem where I'm looking forward to conversations with the prime minister and I intend to meet with Chairman Arafat.
KOPPEL: He also said that the U.S. believes that the incursion that is taking place that continues to take place in West Bank towns and cities by the Israeli forces is very negative in terms of Israel's long-term interest in the region as well as U.S. long-term interest. Secretary Powell also added that it is not helpful to sequence. In other words, it is not helpful to have the Arab world insist that Israel fully withdraw before it does its part.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And please be sure to join Bill Hemmer and our CNN crew on the scene LIVE FROM JERUSALEM tonight. They will be bringing you the latest for a full hour that begins at 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
Our Web question of the day: Do you think you'll see peace between Israelis and Palestinians in your lifetime? You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, let me know what you're thinking. There's a "click here" icon on the left side of the page. Send me your comments. I'll read some of them on the air each day. Also, that is where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
The president, as we've been reporting, is expected to be making remarks over at the White House in just a few minutes. We are watching that. We'll bring that to you live when it happens.
Meanwhile, renewed calls for Boston's Cardinal Law to step down after allegations he turned a blind eye to yet another case of sexual misconduct.
And an emotional day in Britain, a final farewell to the queen mother.
And questions about the effectiveness of a popular herbal supplement. The results of a new study a little bit later. But first, today's "News Quiz."
How many Americans take herbal supplements: Five million, 15 million, 25 million or 40 million? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're standing by. We'll be going to the White House shortly to hear from President Bush directly. He'll be speaking on the situation in the Middle East, presumably answering some reporters' questions as well. When that occurs, we'll be at the White House live.
In the meantime, with the death toll rising and Israeli troops still on the move, I had a chance to speak with representatives from both the Israeli government and the Palestinian Authority just a short time ago. Ephraim Sneh is Israel's transportation minister and a former commander of the West Bank.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
General Sneh, thanks so much for joining us. Welcome to Washington. This ambush of 13 Israeli soldiers in Jenin, how will that affect any Israeli timetable for withdrawing from the West Bank as President Bush has requested?
EPHRAIM SNEH, ISRAELI TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: We have deep sorrow on the brave soldiers that we lost. We'll define the timetable primarily with how do we fulfill our obligation to the Israeli civilian population to destroy the same infrastructure of terror which took the lives of so many Israelis.
BLITZER: So what does that mean? Will Israel withdraw from those territories it's recently reoccupied by the time that the secretary of state reaches Jerusalem on Friday?
SNEH: You know, we already started. We pulled out from two towns, from Tulkarem and Qalqilya.
BLITZER: But at the same time, it seems to be escalating elsewhere.
SNEH: No, I don't think it's escalating. I think that the mission is not accomplished yet. But we have no intentions to stay there. We had a very confined, limited military objective, to arrest or locate the mastermind of the terror attacks, suicide bombings. We want to destroy the laboratories where the explosives are prepared.
BLITZER: How long will this take?
SNEH: Well, for the last few days, we have some very substantial success. And, you know, it's -- mission should be accomplished quite soon.
BLITZER: Within days or weeks?
SNEH: Not weeks.
BLITZER: Not weeks.
SNEH: Not weeks.
BLITZER: Just a few more days, is that what you're saying?
SNEH: The minimal necessary time that we will be able to look at the eyeball of every Israeli and to say we did our utmost.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: How concerned are you though that in the process of finishing up, as you say, this operation, you're going to deeply irritate the president of the United States?
SNEH: The last thing that we want to do is to irritate the president, to ignore his advice. You know how deeply we respect the United States, the president, the government and the people. No one would succeed to drive a wedge between Israel and the United States. There is now maybe a cloud, but, you know, clouds fade away. BLITZER: Do you believe that Israel, your government, the government of Prime Minister Sharon can still work out A: a cease-fire agreement, but then an overall peace agreement with Yasser Arafat?
SNEH: I have no doubt that we can together work on a cease-fire. It is feasible, even with Arafat. It is an obtainable objective.
BLITZER: So you haven't written off Yasser Arafat by any means?
SNEH: Look, he is the leader of the Palestinian people. He has to decide which direction he goes. If he goes towards terror, it is one thing. If he decides to change his strategy and to try to have a new path for his people, we are there.
BLITZER: Ephraim Sneh, thank you so much for joining us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And Hanan Ashrawi is a Palestinian legislator. She's familiar to many of you as a close adviser to Yasser Arafat. She's one of those Palestinians still trying to get into Ramallah to meet with the leader. Hanan Ashrawi is now in Jerusalem. Here is what she told me only a short while ago about the ongoing crisis.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Hanan Ashrawi, thanks very much for joining us. You just heard General Sneh say that he still believes Israel can make a deal with Yasser Arafat. Do you believe that Yasser Arafat can still make a deal with Ariel Sharon?
HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: I believe Yasser Arafat has repeatedly said he would make a deal with whomever the Israelis elect. The problem is two-fold. I heard Sharon doesn't want to make a deal, No. 1. And, No. 2, he presumes to dictate to the Palestinians as to who their leadership is. So he wants to choose another leader rather than Yasser Arafat, and it's not up to him.
So the question is Sharon's strategy and Sharon's high-handed manner of attempting to change our leadership for us.
BLITZER: As you know, President Bush keeps saying almost on a daily basis he wants Yasser Arafat to make a clear statement in Arabic to his own people denouncing suicide bombing attacks against Israeli civilians.
ASHRAWI: Yes.
BLITZER: Will the PLO chairman, the president of the Palestinian Authority, do that?
ASHRAWI: Well, he's done that repeatedly. He said that often enough in plain Arabic and probably in better Arabic than Bush's English. But at the same time, there has been no response. And he even managed to get a period of quiet in which only Palestinians were being killed and no Israelis, and instead, we got massive escalations. So that's a red herring. That's a non-starter.
The real question is whether Sharon, who is the person, and the Israeli occupation army, that is the instrument of death and destruction, can put an end to this escalation, can withdraw and can deal with the requirements of peace. That's the question, not whether you can have a besieged and hostage and captive and imprisoned Arafat come out and address his people when he doesn't even have enough water or electricity in his offices that are destroyed and that have become a prison.
BLITZER: Do you believe though that in the process of this back and forth, the Palestinian cause here in the United States at least seems to be slipping? Our latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows that 74 percent of the American public don't support any of these kinds of Palestinian activities that are going on right now.
ASHRAWI: What's going on, we're being shelled and bombed and assassinated and killed. Our homes are being destroyed, our children traumatized, our livelihood, our institutions and infrastructure, totally demolished. No, I think the American people, once they know the facts, will be fair-minded.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Hanan Ashrawi speaking to us from Jerusalem just a short while ago.
And this note, we're still standing by for remarks President Bush at the White House later this hour. When he comes out and meets with reporters, we'll bring you the president live.
Meanwhile, in the war against terrorism here in the United States, the justice department has indicted a lawyer and three other people on charges they helped a convicted terrorist pass illegal messages to his (UNINTELLIGIBLE) followers. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has been looking into the charges.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even locked away in federal prison with little phone access and no contact with the outside, convicted terrorist Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman spread what justice officials call a message of hate, officials charging Rahman's lawyer and translator as go-betweens, carrying messages from prison to members of his terrorist group known as Gamat al-Islamiya.
ASHCROFT: We will not allow individuals to continue to perpetrate criminal acts or terrorist acts from their prison cells, and we will take whatever steps are necessary.
FEYERICK: Justice officials accused his Sheikh Rahman's lawyer, Lynne Stewart, of violating special prison restrictions, which limited conversations with Rahman to legal, not political matters. Justice officials saying the lawyer, by speaking loudly, tried covering up a prison conversation between Rahman and his translator, Mohammed Yousry. Stewart later publicly announcing Sheikh Rahman had withdrawn his support for a cease-fire, agreed to in 1997 by factions of his Islamic Group following a tourist attack in Luxor, Egypt.
ASHCROFT: Stewart took affirmative steps to conceal the conversation from prison guards, making extraneous comments in English to mask the Arabic conversation between Rahman and Yousry.
FEYERICK: Also indicted, Yassir Al-Sirri, the London connection, and Ahmed Abdel Sattar, accused of being a surrogate for Sheikh Rahman based in New York, setting up conference calls, serving as a vital link between Rahman and his followers. The attorney general says because of the violations, the government is invoking the U.S. Patriot Act set up after September 11, from now on, monitoring all communication between Rahman and his lawyers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Justice officials pointing out that today's indictments don't have anything to do with the September 11 attacks. However, they did clearly make a link between Sheikh Rahman's group, Gamat al-Islamiya, saying that it is allied with al Qaeda, also pointing out that Rahman took a page right out of the al Qaeda manual by making sure that whoever he had contact with, he made sure got his message out even though he was in prison -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Deborah, under that Patriot Act you just referred to, we know a lot about attorney/client privilege. How far can the government go in undermining what, in effect, is attorney/client privilege?
FEYERICK: Well, interesting, according to the U.S. Patriot Act, President Bush says they're supposed to tell somebody that their conversations are being monitored. However, it is only to make sure that whatever is being said is not relating to some impending terrorist act. This is a precautionary measure, not a prosecution measure. For example, they could not take information that they got in the conversation and then bring new charges against somebody already in jail. That is clearly protected under attorney/client privilege.
However, John Ashcroft was asked repeatedly when would these prison conversations monitor, and he stumbled a bit and he said, well, 1998. And, you know, the U.S. Patriot Act clearly not in effect until last fall.
BLITZER: Deborah Feyerick in New York, thanks for that report. We'll be continuing to follow it later this week.
Meanwhile, while preparations continue for the trial of accused Taliban American fighter John Walker Lindh, it's possible another Taliban American may avoid criminal charges. CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena has the latest on the case of Yasser Hamdi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yasser Esam Hamdi is in legal limbo. As a captured enemy combatant, the American Taliban remains in U.S. military custody at Norfolk Naval Air Station in Virginia.
VICTORIA CLARKE, PENTAGON SPOKESWOMAN: We have a very, very strong preference to make sure that people who have made very clear to themselves and/or part of an organization that has made very, very clear that it wants to kill and harm Americans and our friends remain off the streets.
ARENA: But government sources say so far, there is no factual basis to bring criminal charges against Hamdi in a civilian court. And because he is not a member of the U.S. armed forces, experts say, military charges against him are unlikely.
EUGENE FIDELL, MILITARY LAW EXPERT: It hasn't been done for a very, very long time, and there would be a whole raft of issues raised if an effort were made to prosecute him.
ARENA: Justice department officials caution the investigation continues. But unlike another American, John Walker Lindh, who gave incriminating statements to investigators, there is no concrete information regarding Hamdi. So, how long can he be held, considering he's a U.S. citizen? Perhaps indefinitely.
CLARKE: I think fairly common under the Geneva Convention that for the duration of a conflict, you could hold people you have captured as enemy combatants.
ARENA: If no charges are brought, rather than simply release him, the U.S. could try to send Hamdi to Saudi Arabia, where officials believe he also holds citizenship. But he cannot be forced to leave unless there were charges brought against him in that country.
ERIC HOLDER, FORMER DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: The Saudi government could gain a lot in its relationship with the United States, and particularly at this time, if it were to take off the hands of the United States Mr. Hamdi and resolve this problem for the United States. But it would not be something that would be easily done.
ARENA (on camera): One Saudi official tells CNN Hamdi would be allowed to return to Saudi Arabia, where he could be questioned. But the official went on to say that if the United States can't find enough evidence to charge Hamdi, chances are the Saudis couldn't either.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg is the star of a new ad campaign for the legalization of marijuana. We'll tell you what he has to say about that.
Britain mourns the queen mother one last time. We'll be talking about what's next for the monarchy.
And from the attempted assassination of President Reagan to her own battle with cancer, Sarah Brady tells all in a new book. We'll talk to her live a little bit later. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Among the stories we're watching in our "News Alert", U.S. bombing raids appear to be getting more effective. A source familiar with a Pentagon study tells CNN that because of advances in technology, Navy and Marine Corps bombs have destroyed or disabled 75 percent of their targets in Afghanistan. That's up from roughly 50 percent in the Persian Gulf War and the Kosovo conflict.
A spokesman says former President Carter has received U.S. government approval to travel to Cuba and tentatively plans to make the trip next month. Carter is a critic of the U.S. sanctions against Cuba. He would be the first former president to visit Cuba since the 1959 Communist revolution.
A former Arthur Andersen partner pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice today and admitted responsibility for shredding Enron documents. David Duncan is believed to be the first suspect in the Enron investigation to strike a deal with federal prosecutors. He is to remain free until a sentencing hearing, scheduled for August.
Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day and sirens wailed for two minutes in Israel, as people stepped out of cars and trucks and paused to remember the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis during World War II.
And from London to Windsor, more than a million people lined the streets to bid farewell to Britain's beloved queen mother, Elizabeth. Another 300 million or so watched as kings and queens and heads of states joined the royal family in tribute at Westminster Abbey.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. WESLEY CARR, DEAN OF WESTMINSTER: In gratitude we bid farewell to a greatly loved queen, for her grace, humanity and sympathy, for her courage in adversity, for the happiness she brought to so many.
REV. GEORGE CAREY, LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY: We come here to mourn, but also to give thanks, to celebrate the person and her life. Both filled with such a rich sense of fun and joy and the music of laughter. With it went an immense vitality that didn't fail her. Hers was a great old age, but not a cramped one. She remained young at heart, and the young themselves sensed that.
Elizabeth, Queen, Queen Mother, Queen Mum, deeply loved and greatly missed. Many have done excellently, but you exceed them all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joining us now from London, where it is just after 10:30 at night, is the longtime royal watcher, Nigel Dempster, of "The Daily Mail."
Nigel, thanks so much for joining us.
As you know, the queen mother was such a unifying figure in Britain, and elsewhere, indeed. Is there anyone who fills that void now?
NIGEL DEMPSTER, "THE DAILY MAIL": No.
I think I fear for the monarchy, because I feel that, with the queen mother gone -- and let's face it. She was a very old woman who lived in the lap of luxury, with more than 70 indoor staff -- that, with the queen mother gone, the we are going to get a lot of flak on the queen and Prince Charles and who follows him. I think this is the end of the monarchy.
BLITZER: Well, I'm not sure it is the end of the monarchy, necessarily.
But Prince Charles seemed to be deeply, deeply moved, perhaps even more so than his mother, at the pictures we saw today. Did you get that sense as well?
DEMPSTER: I did. I did. I did. I did.
Prince Charles seems to be very affected by his grandmother's death, much more so than the queen.
BLITZER: Why did he...
DEMPSTER: I suspect he didn't have a lot of time to...
BLITZER: Yes, go ahead.
DEMPSTER: I suspect he didn't have a lot of time to feel that she was going to die, because he didn't -- he was caught short on a skiing trip with his sons and had to fly back to England.
BLITZER: And so that explains why he seemed to be so much more visibly shaken by this than Queen Elizabeth, indeed, appeared to have been -- at least, that's the impression we get from afar. Is that yours as well?
DEMPSTER: I think that the queen mother was very, very welcoming in death. She was very old. She had lost all her friends. She had no one of her age anymore to look after her. She wanted to die. She wanted to rejoin her beloved Bertie, who was King George VI, of course.
BLITZER: Is there any sense now that perhaps Queen Elizabeth should step aside in favor of Prince Charles in the aftermath of the death of the queen mother?
DEMPSTER: I don't think so, because there is a certain stigma attached to that word. And I don't think that the queen will ever, ever retire in favor of her son, Prince Charles, even though Prince Charles said to Charles Althorp (ph), when he took over as Earl Spencer, he said: "I wish I inherited when I was young. My parents don't trust me with anything."
BLITZER: So, Nigel, let's get back to what you said earlier, the death of the monarchy. Elaborate on that for us. What are your feelings about that?
DEMPSTER: I feel that the queen is now ready to be attacked. She has been safe from attack throughout the years because of the very old age of her mother. And I feel that the queen will be the last monarch sitting on the throne of England. I don't think there will be a King Charles.
BLITZER: OK, Nigel Dempster, joining us live us from London on this historic day, thank you so much for joining us.
And this programming note: tonight a special "LARRY KING LIVE": "The Queen Mother Remembered," a look back at her extraordinary life. That's tonight on CNN, 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 p.m. on the West Coast.
And does a popular herbal remedy work? You may want to hear the news about St. John's Wort. And the fallout for the Catholic Church: Could it cost a cardinal his job?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked: "How many Americans take herbal supplements: five million, 15 million, 25 million, or 40 million?" According to "The Journal of the American Medical Association," the answer is 40 million, or 14 percent of the country's population. The Council for Responsible Nutrition says the herbal supplement industry does more than $4 billion in sales each year.
And for people who are counting on St. John's Wort to cure depression, there is depressing news. A Duke University study finds that the popular herbal remedy is no more effective than a placebo in treating major depression.
CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta examines the evidence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you get the blues from time to time, you have probably heard of St. John's Wort. This herbal extract took the country by storm when it was shown to be effective against minor depression. It was new, natural and en vogue.
DR. JONATHAN DAVIDSON, DUKE UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: St. John's Wort has been very popular for a number of years, I think partly because it's easy to obtain. You can buy it over the counter. It's perceived as being very safe. And, of course, it's also a natural product. And that appeals to a lot of people.
GUPTA: But, like most things, new information is starting to tarnish this $4 billion herbal supplement industry. Previous studies showed that St. John's Wort was not effective against severe depression. And now a new article from "The Journal of the American Medical Association" concludes St. John's Wort is not an effective treatment for evenly moderately severe depression.
Over 300 adult patients with moderately depression were tested with the extract from hypericin, the plant form of St. John's Wort. Each moderately depressed patient received either the herb itself, the anti-depressant Zoloft or a placebo, or sugar pill.
DAVIDSON: We found that in moderately severe major depression, St. John's Wort did not do any better than a sugar pill.
GUPTA: As the popularity of herbal supplements continues to soar, researchers are discovering that, just because it is natural doesn't always make it safe. And just because it doesn't make you better doesn't mean it won't make you worse.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Sanjay, as you know, a White House commission recently came out with its own study on herbal supplements. What was their major conclusion?
GUPTA: Well, this is a big issue. And certainly the White House had a commission on complimentary and alternative medicine. They had several conclusions from that, including the fact -- one of the obvious conclusions: We need to study these herbal supplements more. We need to research exactly how they work. We need to research exactly how they interact with other medication. That's a big issue.
A lot of people take these medications thinking they're natural and therefore they're safe. Neither one of those things is always true. And the final thing is that they're looking into -- and this is perhaps the most contentious thing, Wolf -- as to whether or not federal entitlements such as Medicare and Medicaid should actually pay for some of these alternative medicines.
As you can imagine, people are saying: "Well, wait a second, Medicare and Medicaid are already going bankrupt. We're not even sure if they can pay for the gold-standard therapies. How are they going to pay for these alternative medicines?" So there's a lot of controversy, even within that commission, Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Sanjay, so I take that Medicare and Medicaid doesn't pay for those kinds of herbal supplements, alternative medicines, right now?
GUPTA: Most plans don't cover alternative medicines right now. They need statistically proven data to show that these things work. Really, a lot of the research still hasn't been done. Some of it has been done, but a lot of the research to actually allocate funding toward these alternative medicines isn't always there.
BLITZER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, once again, thanks so much for joining us as always.
GUPTA: Thank you.
BLITZER: Meanwhile, a new study says drinking by college students is more destructive than previously thought. It blames college drinking for 1,400 deaths 500,000 injuries and 70,000 cases of sexual assault across the country each year. The report, commissioned by the Task Force on College Drinking, says incoming freshmen, males, fraternity and sorority members, and athletes drink the most heavily.
There are new calls today for the resignation of Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law.
CNN's Jason Carroll reports that the release of some church documents has added even more heat to the controversy over sexual abuse by priests.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cardinal Law presided over a funeral in Portland, Maine Tuesday, while, back in Boston, the fallout from church documents regarding Father Paul Shanley continued to grow, as does criticism...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he should retire. I think he should go.
CARROLL: ... Cardinal Law should resign for the way the church handled Shanley.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a doubt about whether he can regain the confidence of people.
CARROLL: Editorials in both of the city's major papers call for Law's resignation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can say anything you want.
CARROLL: Talk radio stations like WTTK were flooded with calls...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, I want to say I do support the cardinal.
CARROLL: ... from people on both sides of the issue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He has already proven, through his documented behavior, that he has not been responsible as a leader.
CARROLL: What has upset Catholics and non-Catholics alike were the contents of internal church documents about Shanley, revealed Monday during a press conference with two of his alleged victims.
They show church officials knew Shanley had been accused numerous times of sexual abuse and that he allegedly supported sex between men and boys. One document cited a gay magazine and quoted Shanley as saying: "When adults have sex with children, the children seduce them. Children may after regret having caused someone to go to prison knowing that they are the guilty ones."
Shanley allegedly made the statement in 1979 at a conference for the formation of NAMBLA, the North American Man Boy Love Association. Another document from a church official in 1991 says, "It is clear to me that Paul Shanley is a sick person."
Despite all the allegations of sexual abuse over the years, Cardinal Law thanked Shanley in a letter in 1996 for his impressive record, writing: "The lives and hearts of many people have been touched by your sharing of the Lord's spirit."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I wrong to think that Cardinal Law should resign immediately?
CARROLL: To date, at least three priests accused of sexual abuse have been moved from parish to parish under Law's watch. Before Shanley, there was Father Frederick Ryan, as well as defrocked and convicted priest John Geoghan.
(on camera): This isn't the first time there have been calls for Cardinal Law to step aside. During the church scandal involving John Geoghan, Cardinal Law was under heavy pressure to step down. He responded by telling a congregation here at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross he would not step down.
CARDINAL BERNARD LAW, BOSTON: I do not intend to resign as your archbishop.
CARROLL (voice-over): Law did not return our calls for a comment. And to date, he has not publicly spoken about Shanley.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're standing by for remarks from President Bush at the White House momentarily. Once he speaks, we'll bring you those remarks live.
But up next: After all the heartache, Ted Koppel's career is no longer in limbo. Also, the mayor and marijuana: why Michael Bloomberg's words are coming back to haunt him. And the personal side of a public figure: what you may not know about gun control activist Sarah Brady. She's joining us live.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Her world changed when a bullet from a wanna-be assassin struck her husband. Sarah Brady, wife of President Ronald Reagan's press secretary, Jim Brady, is no stranger to adversity. After surviving her family's struggle, she took on one of the most powerful lobbies in the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SARAH BRADY, GUN CONTROL ADVOCATE: Our family can tell the gun lobby a little bit about inconvenience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But there is a private side to her public life. In her revealing new book, "A Good Fight," Sarah Brady talks about living with cancer, as well as her decision to buy her own son a gun.
And here with us now is Sarah Brady.
Congratulations, first of all, on the new book. Welcome.
BRADY: Thank you.
BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about this new book, "A Good Fight."
I want to read one excerpt, a moving excerpt: "People have sometimes asked how I found the courage to get through the hard times we have faced. The truth is that I don't think it was a matter of courage after Jim was hurt. I simply faced the facts. Life was not going to be what it had been. And either I could complain about it or I could strive to make our new life as good as possible."
This has been a hugely difficult ordeal, hasn't it?
BRADY: It's been difficult, but everybody has difficult things in their life. We've had some marvelously wonderful things, too. And they counterbalance each other.
BLITZER: And, on top of all this now, you've come down with cancer, lung cancer. Tell us, first of all, how you're doing.
BRADY: I think I'm doing great. I feel wonderful. My last two scans have been clean. I get scanned again next week.
BLITZER: Good luck.
BRADY: And I feel great right now.
BLITZER: And Jim, who is, of course, a very close friend of all of ours, all of us who used to cover the White House, how is he doing right now?
BRADY: He's doing great, too. We're having more fun and enjoying our life. He's enjoying going along with me...
BLITZER: On the book tour.
BRADY: On the book tour.
BLITZER: The book is out in book stores right now.
BRADY: Yes, it is. BLITZER: Let's take another excerpt from the book. You wrote this: "A couple of years after Jim was shot, I saw John Hinckley in person for the first and only time. I sat in the corner of a courtroom and watched him let in. When I saw him, I felt no vindictiveness. Neither Jim nor I ever has. I just thought that there went the sick, sad son of another family."
That's remarkable, to feel no vindictiveness.
BRADY: Well, I always wondered, if I saw him in person, whether I had just been fooling myself, because I tried not to dwell on him, and to swell on getting Jim better. And so I was very, I guess, relieved and pleased when I did see him that a sudden surge of anger or vindictiveness didn't pop out. Vindictiveness only hurts me or my family. It wouldn't hurt John Hinckley.
BLITZER: But it didn't go so far as to actually forgive him for this crime.
BRADY: Well, I don't know what the word forgive was. I think he's a very sick man. Of course I don't forgive him. But I -- maybe I'll use Jim's old words that I always loved, when he said, "I don't wish him any ill will, but, then again, I hope he doesn't win the Irish sweepstakes."
BLITZER: Yes. I'm sure he's not going to win the Irish sweepstakes.
Another excerpt from your new book, "A Good Fight": "I can't describe how I felt when I picked up that rifle, loaded it onto my little car and drove home. It seemed so incredibly strange: Sarah Brady, of all people, packing heat."
Now, you have taken on the NRA, the National Rifle Association, the gun lobby for all of these years. The Brady Law is now in effect, as we all know. You went out and bought a rifle. Tell us about that.
BRADY: Well, you know, all along, I've always believed, I'm not against -- nor is my organization against law-abiding people owning guns. And although I never had a gun in our home, since Scott was born...
BLITZER: Your son.
BRADY: We gave Jim's hunting rifle to my brother to keep. And I didn't particularly didn't want one, didn't feel like I wanted one at all when he was a child. He had moved to a location where he's out in the woods and wanted a hunting rifle. And it was Christmas time. And I knew that's what he wanted. And I bought it for him.
BLITZER: And some have said that it was hypocritical.
BRADY: I don't think it's hypocritical at all, because I have always said any law-abiding person should be able to purchase a gun. It's the terrorists and the fugitives and the felons and the background checks that we need to take to keep to them out of the wrong hands. But if they're in the hands of responsible adults, there should be no problem.
BLITZER: What's the biggest single issue you want to see advanced right now?
BRADY: Comprehensive background checks, to be sure. Right now they are only for gun dealers, purchases through gun dealers. I'd like to see all purchases have to undergo background checks, Internet, gun shows, any of the classified ads, any of the other ways where guns are purchased today.
BLITZER: OK, it's called "A Good Fight." It's a good book. Congratulations. Good luck on the book tour. Give our best regards to our friend, Jim Brady, as well.
BRADY: Will do.
BLITZER: Thanks so much for joining us.
BRADY: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you.
And now here's some of "The Scoop" on some people making news: In an interview before he became New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg was asked if he had ever used marijuana. Now a pro-pot group is running ads featuring his quoted response -- quote -- "You bet I did and I enjoyed it." Asked about the ads, Mayor Bloomberg has offered a new quote -- quote -- "I'm not thrilled."
Despite all the speculation a few weeks ago, Ted Koppel will continue to be a fixture of ABC's late-night schedule. Koppel has reached an agreement to keep doing his "Nightline" show in its current time slot for at least two years. Earlier this year, ABC tried to replace "Nightline" with David Letterman.
Dumped by public television less than a month ago, Louis Rukeyser is going over to the competition. Louis Rukeyser's "Wall Street" will be seen on the CNBC Friday night schedule at the same time PBS airs Rukeyser's former show, "Wall Street Week." In another jab at his ex- employer, Rukeyser's CNBC show will be offered to public television stations that want to replay it.
OK, let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thanks.
Coming up next: the death toll rising in the Middle East. We'll examine the prospects of a cease-fire. I'll be talking with Nabil Fahmy, who is Egyptian ambassador to the United States. We'll be telling you about a dramatic shift in the case against Andersen. The Andersen partner fired for shredding documents today pleaded guilty for obstruction of justice. He is now a government witness. And, for the first time since World War II, "The Wall Street Journal" has a brand new look. I'll be talking with the publisher about what prompted the change and talk about the challenges of a difficult advertising market.
All of that, a lot more coming at the top of the hour. Please join us -- now back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. We certainly will.
And we're still standing by for President Bush at the White House. That should happen momentarily. You're looking at a live picture. When he walks through those doors, we'll take the president's remarks live.
But there's only minutes left before our Web poll closes. Go to CNN.com/Wolf, answer our question: "Do you think you'll see peace between Israelis and Palestinians in your lifetime?" And also ahead: a strong reaction to our segment on the threat of suicide bombings here in the United States.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now the results of our "Web Question": "Do you think you'll see peace between Israelis and Palestinians in your lifetime?" Most of you -- look at this -- 77 percent say no. Only 23 percent of you are optimistic and say yes. A reminder: This is not a scientific poll.
And time now to hear from you.
On a segment we did yesterday, Diane writes this: "How can you ask if suicide bombings could occur in the United States when the attack on the World Trade Center was the biggest and most dramatic suicide bombing to date?"
Good point.
That's all the time we have today. I'll see you tomorrow at 5:00 Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
