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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Suicide Bomber Rips Apart Commuter Bus; Is Bush administration on Antiterror Witch-Hunt?; More Calls for Resignation of Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law.
Aired April 10, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: A suicide bomber rips apart a commuter bus. Israel asks the U.S., do you get it now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is only a matter of time before suicide bombers will terrorize your cities here in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: He was the first American pilot downed in the Persian Gulf War. Now, the U.S. mulls an Iraqi offer to come look for him.
Is the Bush administration on an antiterror witch-hunt? I'll ask Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz.
And the cardinal and the alleged cover-up: Calls for a top Catholic cleric to step down.
It's Wednesday, April 10, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Breaking news in the Middle East tops our news alert.
On the eve of the visit by the U.S. secretary of state, Israeli troops have been ordered to withdraw from three West Bank villages. Israel's defense minister says the operation had led to a number of arrests and had uncovered a number of explosives labs. We'll have much more on this coming up.
And Israel's military campaign has not stamped out terrorism. A Palestinian suicide bomber blew himself up on a packed commuter bus near the northern Israeli city of Haifa, killing eight people, including the niece of Israel's United Nations ambassador. At least 14 people were wounded. The militant groups Hamas and Islamic Jihad are aiming responsibility.
Vowing the Israeli military will fight, quote, "until the job is done," Prime Minister Ariel Sharon today called on the U.S. not to pressure Israel. Sharon spoke as he met with troops in the West Bank near Jenin, the scene of bloody fighting in recent days.
Still under siege in Ramallah, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat was allowed to meet with his senior aides today. Afterward, some of those advisers travelled to Jerusalem to meet with the United States envoy Anthony Zinni, who is laying the groundwork for Secretary of State Colin Powell's peace mission. We'll be speaking shortly with one of those Palestinians.
And after gaining the endorsement of European nations in Madrid, Secretary Powell takes his search for peace to Jerusalem tomorrow. He has made it clear he will meet with Arafat, saying Israel will also have to deal with the Palestinian leader, quote, "at some point."
Israel's military campaign has not stopped the suicide bombers. The Israelis say that's one reason they cannot end their offensive. But on the eve of the Powell peace mission, there's some breaking news under way of another Israeli pullback. Let's go live to CNN's Bill Hemmer. He joins us in Jerusalem -- Bill.
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, hello and good evening from Jerusalem. Within the past 30 minutes, we have confirmed that there is an additional pullout right now under way in certain small towns in the West Bank. All these towns, Wolf, around the town of Hebron and around the town of Nablus. You might recall, about 48 hours ago, Tulkarem and Qalqiliya, larger towns than the ones we're talking about right now, a partial withdraw got under way there two days ago. And we were led to believe yesterday that more withdrawal would take place, and indeed that appears to be the case throughout the night here in the West Bank.
Meanwhile, the gunfire, the violence did continue in parts of the West Bank, but specifically in the town of Jenin. This has been a place for fierce fighting for several days running now. We're told a lot of that gunfire has died down, just sporadic battles right now in the old city, in the refugee camp of Jenin. The Israelis are saying that hundreds of Palestinian gunmen came out earlier today, surrendered, turned their guns and their weapons over to Israeli soldiers.
Meanwhile, the Palestinians and Saeb Erakat, a chief Palestinian negotiator, said on CNN hours ago that he says Palestinians, as many as 500, have been killed between the towns of Jenin and Nablus. The Israelis say that's an absolute lie, and say it has been a fabrication. Difficult, Wolf, for us to get any verification on the ground, frankly, because, as you know, the movement for journalists throughout the West Bank has been severely restricted for the past 12 days running.
Meanwhile, the prime minister was in Jenin earlier, meeting with Israeli troops on the ground there. All this coming just a day after Israel suffered a serious setback; 13 of its soldiers were killed in what's described as a suicide bombing ambush. A suicide bomber blew himself up yesterday, setting off a string of explosions. Again, 13 dead yesterday. Today, Ariel Sharon says the goals of the current mission have not been met, and despite pressure from the U.S., the U.N. and the Europeans, Israel will not stop its military activity until those goals are met.
Meanwhile, Yasser Arafat did have some visitors today. Some leading negotiators on the Palestinian side did go to Ramallah and talked to the Palestinian leader. Later, they met with Anthony Zinni, the chief U.S. negotiator. We were told yesterday, Wolf, that after that meeting with Zinni they would go back to Arafat sometime today. We don't know if that happened, but certainly we'll keep a close eye on it.
And as you mentioned a short time ago, Wolf, on the eve now of Colin Powell's visit, we do expect the secretary of state here on the ground in Jerusalem in just about 24 hours' time -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bill, is there any indication the pullback from these three villages now sets the stage for a complete Israeli withdrawal anytime soon from those areas they've recently reoccupied?
HEMMER: Yeah, I apologize about that. Sorry to be so quick on that. But no indication of that right now. What we're seeing and hearing on the ground right now is just these three small towns in addition to the two larger towns two days ago. No clear indication that this is on a wide scale just yet.
BLITZER: Bill Hemmer in Jerusalem, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, the U.S. peace mission has become even more challenging with the suicide attack on that Israeli bus near Haifa. CNN's Chris Burns went directly to the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The blast was so powerful witnesses say it lifted the bus off the ground. A packed commuter express on its way from the northern port of Haifa to Jerusalem. Police say the suicide bomber got on near Haifa's industrial outskirts, wearing an explosives belt. Minutes later, just after 7:00 a.m., he blew himself up.
(on camera): The blast scattered body parts in a wide radius from the bus, here along the highway, in the fields of a kibbutz nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The condition, for sure, you know, that is not regular death condition. This was a part from this bomb, you know, you never find a whole body. Many bodies was on the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), but a lot of parts of bodies.
BURNS (voice-over): More than a dozen survivors are hospitalized, some in serious condition.
The government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon blames Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat. One more reason, say the Israelis, to maintain their siege of Arafat's compound in Ramallah. The bus bombing is the first suicide attack in Israel in 10 days, the second since the Israeli offensive in the West Bank began, aimed at routing out what the government calls "the infrastructure of terror."
Chris Burns, CNN, near Haifa, Israel.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Bolstered by the support of European allies, Secretary of State Colin Powell faces a major challenge as he heads back to the Middle East in his search for peace. Here's CNN's State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel. She's traveling with the secretary.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Madrid, a welcome show of solidarity. Representatives of most of the world's most powerful governments expressing strong support for Secretary of State Powell's increasingly delicate diplomatic mission. U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan laid out the stakes.
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: I'm frankly appalled by the humanitarian situation. The international community demands that the government of Israel honor its obligation under international law to protect civilians.
We call on Chairman Arafat as the recognized elected leader of the Palestinian people to undertake immediately the maximum possible effort to stop terror attacks against innocent Israelis.
KOPPEL: A situation one European official described as "moving rapidly from bad to worse to appalling." Fresh from two days of intense consultations within the Arab world, Powell's search for a solution to achieve a cease-fire appears to be taking shape. Among key components, accelerating the political process, to for example recognize a Palestinian state even before a truce is in place, introducing American monitors, a small number of whom could verify a cease-fire, committing to rebuild the Palestinian Authority, much of which has been damaged or destroyed, and agreeing to meet the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, this week over strong Israeli objections.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: The reality is that no other Palestinian leader or for that matter Arab leader is prepared to engage as a partner until Mr. Arafat has had a chance to express his views to me and to others. So I hope that there will be no difficulties in arranging a meeting with Chairman Arafat.
KOPPEL: On the eve of his arrival in Israel, Powell's supporters have wished him luck. With so much riding on his mission's success, they say, Powell can't afford to fail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He carries with him all the prestige of the world's only superpower, super-duper power, as somebody called it recently. And the United States has been a great friend to and of Israel. And if Mr. Sharon doesn't listen to Colin Powell and the rest of the international community, then God help the Middle East.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: That was a report from our Andrea Koppel. She's traveling with the secretary of state on his way to the Middle East. And from the Middle East, we have some more breaking news. The chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erakat, has just finished meeting with the U.S. special envoy, General Anthony Zinni. Earlier, Erakat and other Palestinian leaders were finally allowed to travel to Ramallah to meet with the Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.
We now have Saeb Erakat on the phone, he joins us live. Mr. Erakat, thanks so much for joining us. Give us the headline. What was resolved, if anything, during your meeting with General Zinni?
SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Well, I conveyed to him President Arafat's instructions to us, that we should exert every possible effort to ensure the success of Secretary Powell's mission and that of the secretary general, the Europeans' directions (ph) and also that of General Zinni.
We had a good meeting. We reiterated our commitment to the implementation of the Security Council resolution 1402, the components of which the withdrawal, stopping the incursion and implementation of Tenet and Mitchell, and the rest. We really -- we also discussed the limit (ph) the Israeli incursions and attacks and to have their immediate withdrawal, and we asked -- we don't know when Mr. Sharon will heed to the calls of President Bush and other leaders, because, you know, now the situation on the ground -- we don't have Palestinian areas under our control anymore. I don't know if the authority can function anymore.
So the first step that must be taken is that Sharon must heed to the call of President Bush to withdraw immediately and to stop the incursions and then to move into the cease-fire and the implementation of Tenet and Mitchell.
This was conveyed to General Zinni, and we started to work on how -- what's the best way to define a road map, as was specified by President Bush last week, concerning, you know, beginning with ending the incursions, the withdrawal, the cease-fire, and leading to the political horizon, ending the Israeli occupation.
BLITZER: Mr. Erakat, did General Zinni make specific requests of you, the Palestinian side, to do certain things now to set the stage for the secretary's visit?
ERAKAT: General Zinni stressed the importance that we should do every possible effort to ensure the success of the secretary's visit. And he asked a few specific questions about our commitments. We reassured him of our full commitment toward our obligations emanating from the Tenet and Mitchell plan.
And we asked for help, actually. We need to assess the extent of the damage inflicted on the Palestinian Authority, security infrastructure and civilian infrastructure. You know, capabilities can be rebuilt, and we need help in rebuilding this, but as far as commitment, it's there, and we hope that the first step will be that Sharon will heed to the call of the withdrawal in order to have the authority functioning, in order to carry out the obligations asked from us. BLITZER: Well, as you know, the president of the United States keeps saying that he wants Chairman Arafat to do more to stop the suicide bombings. Did General Zinni ask for a specific statement in Arabic that the Palestinian leader should make?
ERAKAT: Well, this is part of the Tenet plan, actually. The first article of the Tenet plan calls for both leaders to announce a declaration of a cease-fire and to stop the violence in all forms, and -- we're committed to that.
But now the withdraw -- I wish that President Bush can see the situation of President Arafat. Wolf, I've been going to this place for year, I did not recognize the place today. My friend, my president was sitting there without running water for the last 13 days, without taking showers. It is a dreadful situation. Shortages of food. The president is confined to one room, because everything around him has been destroyed. There are barbed wires, and we have to cross, you know, a few tanks just to get to his office. There are no phone lines. There is no electricity. It is coming and going. There is many people who need medicine.
So I wonder if anybody sees the situation of how President Arafat's siege is, which is really awful, which is really -- I was shocked. I was shocked to see the situation. And you cannot ask somebody in the place President Arafat now, what he's facing now, you know, to do what he wants to do, but he wants to be in power to do it. He wants to be able to do it.
This is why we made the point that it is really essential that Sharon heeds the call of President Bush to stop these incursions, to stop -- and to begin the withdrawal, because I don't think -- and I think General Zinni agrees with us -- there will not be a solution through military means, through violence. Bullets will breed bullets; violence will breed violence, and the only way is to really do whatever we can to ensure the success of Secretary Powell, and I think the Israelis should do the same.
BLITZER: Saeb Erakat, the chief Palestinian negotiator, joining us by telephone as he heads back to his home in Jericho on the West Bank. Thank you very much for that report.
And meanwhile, a former Israeli prime minister says he believes Powell's mission is doomed. Speaking to U.S. lawmakers, and later to reporters here in Washington, Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel's current military operation in the West Bank is the only answer, at least for the moment, and he likened Israel's enemies to those the United States is fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, FORMER ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: Will America apply its principles consistently and win this war, or will it selectively abandon these principles and thereby ultimately risk losing the war? My countrymen ask this question because they believe that terrorism is an indivisible evil that must be fought indivisibly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Netanyahu also said, in his opinion, there would be no peace until Yasser Arafat was replaced as the Palestinian leader.
Let's start there as we bring in Ra'anan Gissin, he's a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister and a close adviser to Ariel Sharon. Mr. Gissin, thank you so much for joining us. First of all, was Benjamin Netanyahu speaking here in Washington on behalf of the prime minister?
RA'ANAN GISSIN, ISRAELI GOVT. SPOKESMAN: Well, you know, there was a meeting between the prime minister and Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu, who is an excellent spokesman, articulate -- and I think he's representing the general view and the general feeling of not just the prime minister, but most Israelis these days.
BLITZER: So in other words, what you're saying is that your government has written off Yasser Arafat as a potential partner in achieving, A, a cease-fire and, B, an overall peace agreement?
GISSIN: Well, you know, we respect very much the effort on behalf of the United States and we're willing to provide any assistance to this effort and to this initiative, as we did in the past and as we'll probably do in the future.
But I must say, we're very skeptical about the ability to change Yasser Arafat's behavior after 18 months in which we have time and again pleaded and taken action, unilateral action, established cease- fires which he never respected. I mean, there hasn't been one cease- fire that he really respected. There hasn't been one clause, one step that he was supposed to take in order to fight terrorism, in order to stop the incitement, for example, that he has taken. So we have to judge him according to his behavior.
BLITZER: So are you looking for other Palestinians with whom you can negotiate potentially down the road?
GISSIN: Well, I think the first thing that we're doing is this operation, Operation Defensive Shield, and that is to uproot terrorism. First of all, you know, Saeb Erakat was lamenting about the fact of the poor conditions in which you find Mr. Arafat. Well, I haven't heard him voice that anguish with regard to all those families that lost their lives in Israel. Whole families were wiped out as a result of suicide bombing.
And this operation that we're taking now, it's really to protect the citizens of Israel, but also the citizens of the world, because if we are able to stop and show that suicide bombing can be defeated in Jenin, which is our (UNINTELLIGIBLE), if you want, then there is hope to stop it in other place of the world, because this will spread easily to other places if it is successful. So Jenin was maybe a -- what the Palestinian claimed to be a heroic standard or now they're trying to concoct it as a massacre, but it was a place where we actually were able to stop the assembly line of suicide bombers.
BLITZER: Is it your position, therefore, that the operation will continue despite the repeated calls from the secretary of state and the president of the United States to end this reoccupation right now?
GISSIN: Well, I think the prime minister was very clear and unequivocal in what he said. We will lend assistance and help to make Secretary of State Powell's mission a success where we can. But there's one thing where we cannot make any compromises, and that's on the life and security of the citizens of Israel.
For too long -- I mean, we have restrained ourselves, hoping for a multilateral, if you want, a bilateral cease-fire to come into effect, but it was only us who stopped firing. The Palestinians continued, and we were paying a heavy toll in the life of our citizens. Therefore, in places where there is still a hard nucleus of terrorist activity still in Jenin, maybe in Nablus yet and in other cities -- in Bethlehem, where we have a stalemate with the hostage situation there -- we will continue to apply the means that we have taken in this operation until such time that the threat of terrorism no longer exists there.
Other places, maybe other towns or places where the military will assert that there is no longer a threat, we will pull out from there at no time. We have no intention of reoccupying the Palestinian cities or any area that was given to the Palestinians. But they must understand that they bear a full responsibility of what emanates for that territory.
The only way we can pursue peace, the only way that there's a hope for Zinni's missions and Powell's initiative is if terrorism is subdued to the point that ban of good reason and good faith among the Palestinians can come forward and really negotiate peace without having a gun placed to their head.
BLITZER: All right. Ra'anan Gissin, a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon joining us live from Jerusalem. Thank you very much for your report, as well.
And this programming note, please tune in tonight to Bill Hemmer, he'll join us live at 8:00 p.m., "LIVE FROM JERUSALEM," on all of the latest fighting and the efforts to stop it, 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 p.m. Pacific, right here on CNN.
And this additional note, please join me Sunday on late edition, among my guests, the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon. That's Sunday at noon Eastern.
A standard car safety feature could be on its way to becoming optional. A new pill offers promise in saving smokers' lives. Boston's Cardinal Law could be facing potentially, at least, criminal charges. We'll talk to the Massachusetts attorney general.
And he's been missing since the Persian Gulf War. Should the Pentagon now send investigators to Iraq? We will talk to the Speicher family attorney in a moment.
First, today's news quiz.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Earlier we asked how many U.S. pilots were killed in Operation Desert Storm. According to the Pentagon, 14 U.S. pilots were killed in action during the Persian Gulf War. That number does not include Lieutenant Commander Michael Scott Speicher, who is now listed as missing in action.
And going back to another war, another time, another place, and the mystery surrounding Michael Scott Speicher. The Navy pilot has been missing now for more than a decade, shot down in the opening hours of Operation Desert Storm. Now, Iraq is inviting a team of U.S. inspectors to investigate what happened.
Our military affairs correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, joins us now live with more -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was initially believed that Speicher died in the shoot down of his plane, but a subsequent investigation in 1995 concluded that he likely ejected safely from his F-18 and then was captured by the Iraqis. But when the war was over, Speicher was the only missing pilot that was not accounted for or returned to the U.S.
Now, Iraq has long contended that he died and his body was devoured by animals in the desert, but today the Iraqi ambassador to the United Nations speaking to CNN essentially repeated that assertion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We are serious on that question and we know very well what does that mean, and our proposal to the American government is serious so we welcome the team in Iraq to follow those questions -- to discuss those questions. We have no doubt that there is no any problem. Even caution -- we have no caution about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Well, it's true that the Pentagon does believe that Speicher is probably dead, but his status is still listed as MIA, until they can account for exactly what happened to him. And whether or not he was killed by the Iraqis after he was captured. Now, they also want to put to rest persistent rumors that Speicher has been held in captivity secretly for more than 11 years.
The big problem for the Pentagon is deciding whether there will be any real answers, if they send a delegation to Iraq or whether it will simply provide a propaganda opportunity for the Iraqi government. Some of the suspicions fueled by the conditions Iraq has placed on it. They want a U.S. media team to go along, they also want the former head of the U.S. arms inspections team, Scott Ritter who has been critical of U.S.-Iraq policy in the past to be a part of that process. So From the Pentagon so far no decision about whether to proceed.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thank you very much. And let's go now to Jacksonville, Florida, and Cindy Laquidara. She is an attorney for the Speicher family. Cindy, thank you for joining us. What do you make of this formal Iraqi proposal to send the delegation over to Iraq to search perhaps for Michael Scott Speicher?
CINDY LAQUIDARA: Well, I think it is slightly better than their first proposal. I understand it has come through more formal channels, and it has suddenly been made directly, in this case even directly to CNN, so that's promising. A discussion is always promising.
BLITZER: It is your sense that he may be still alive? Because you heard the Iraqi representative insist he's not alive. He's dead and the U.S. government, he says, knows it.
LAQUIDARA: If they know it, they haven't shared it with us. And I really believe my government over that of Iraq, and the information I have is there's no evidence whatsoever that Scott is dead. Is he conclusively alive? We can't say that. Is the greater weight of the evidence there that he is? Yes, I would say that. I would say that there significant evidence that he's alive. If he died, he died in Iraq's hands. If I were Iraq I would prefer to proffer to him alive than to try to explain how they killed one of their POWs.
BLITZER: Remind us, what hard evidence do you believe you have to suggest he might be alive?
LAQUIDARA: Well, let me -- we have evidence that we -- we have testimony that he was in a car in Iraq being driven to Baghdad. We have evidence that has not been completed vented, but has been consistent over the past few years that locates him in prisons that we know do in fact exist. And so we have that type of information.
Now, contrasted with if we're in the position of saying to a foreign country, if you can hide our pilot, you get to keep him. If you tell us he's dead, we're going to believe you, we can't have that. That can't be the answer.
BLITZER: So your bottom line, speaking on behalf of the Speicher family is the Pentagon should accept the invitation and go to Iraq?
LAQUIDARA: The Pentagon should be negotiating with Iraq, and I believe that they will be. Should they accept their offer? Well, no, you don't accept the terms anytime out of the box of an offer like this and the terms need to be negotiated. Is the media welcome? Of course. Will they participate in negotiations, of course not. Will we bring Scott Ritter? Of course not. Would we -- they'll consider the issues raised by Iraq? Yes, they would. They don't need Scott Ritter to have that happen.
BLITZER: And would you or a representative of the family want to go on that mission? LAQUIDARA: We will do whatever it takes to bring this to a conclusion, and we have the full faith in our government. We're willing to participate. We certainly are participating in the composition of the group that goes over there.
BLITZER: Cindy Laquira, an attorney representing the Speicher family. Thank you so much for that information.
LAQUIDARA: Well, thank you for your time.
BLITZER: And in New Jersey, shooting spree comes to a close. Up next, we'll tell you how it ended.
A Catholic cardinal faces the possibility of criminal charges. We'll talk to the man who would make that decision.
And a little later, an American attorney is accused of helping a terrorist. But is the Justice Department going too far?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Headlines this half hour: Saying that life is a creation, not a commodity, President Bush is turning up the pressure on lawmakers preparing to debate cloning. He wants the Senate to pass legislation that would ban cloning, even for research. The House has already done so.
A deadly shooting spree in New Jersey appears to have ended in suicide. Police say officer Edwards Lutes was found dead in his car this morning. They had been looking for him in connection with five deaths in two seaside communities overnight -- no word yet on the motive.
Remember Elian Gonzalez, the Cuban boy rescued at sea off the coast Florida? A watchdog group, Judicial Review, says it has proof the Immigration and Naturalization Service destroyed a memo that could have bolstered the request for Elian's asylum -- no immediate comment from the INS.
There are more calls today for the resignation of Boston's Cardinal Bernard Law. Recently released church documents suggest the cardinal knew about sexual abuse charges against Father Paul Shanley, but promoted him anyway. CNN has contacted the Boston Archdiocese and the Catholic Council of Bishops for comment, but so far, there has been no response.
The office of Massachusetts Attorney General Tom Reilly has been reviewing church documents to see if criminal charges are warranted.
Tom Reilly joins us now live from Watertown, Massachusetts.
Mr. Attorney General, thanks so much.
Well, what's the answer? Are criminal charges warranted?
TOM REILLY, MASSACHUSETTS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, we can't tell right now. We're in the process of gathering information, evaluating that information. But there may not be a criminal solution to this problem. Criminal charges against anyone in a supervisory position are very difficult. And that may or may not be there. And time will tell.
It is important to remember that the focus is drawn to one person, but the problem is far greater than one person. This is a problem with an institution. It is an institution -- this has gone on for so long and the magnitude of it. That has to change. So we're focused on that as well.
BLITZER: But if there were sexual abuse against young kids, little boys, for example, and higher-ups in the Catholic Church covered that up, didn't report those crimes to law enforcement authorities, isn't there a potential there for some sort of criminal charge?
REILLY: Well, maybe of these cases go back decades. The first case that we have goes back to 1959, many in the '60s and the '70s. So, there is a statute of limitations that precludes many prosecutions against anyone.
For anyone in a supervisory position, it is even more difficult. It is really -- it's too early to tell. Obviously, we're evaluating that information, gathering more information. But, as we do that, we're also focused on protecting children now, today, next week, next month, to make sure that the environment that they are in is safe for them and no child -- there's a tremendous damage, Wolf, that has occurred here in other jurisdictions, other states throughout the country.
We have to make sure that, while that damage needs to addressed and those victims need to be addressed, we don't want children victimized in the future. We need to make sure that they are safe. We need a comprehensive system in place that makes sure that children are safe when they are in a church setting.
BLITZER: Well, as you look inside the Catholic Church and try to make sure this doesn't happen again, how worried are you about what some critics have suggested could be a violation of church and state: the government getting involved in the activities of the church?
REILLY: Well, this isn't about the separation between the church and state. Obviously, we respect -- and I'm a Catholic myself. We respect that. We understand that. We are cognizant of that.
This isn't about that. This is about children. This is about the protection of children. And that's what has been fundamentally flawed in the strategy that was followed by the church here. The protection of children come first. We are all taught that. That is a value that we hold dear, no matter what religion that we have. That was lost sight of here.
So, this isn't about separation of church and state. We are very much aware of that. We respect it. But we are going to make sure the children are protected, that they are safe, that they are not at risk of sexual predators, as, unfortunately, is what has happened. This all has to change. This culture, this environment has to change. And this may be the beginning of it right here.
BLITZER: All right, the attorney general of Massachusetts, Tom Reilly, thanks so much for joining us.
REILLY: Thank you.
BLITZER: And, in an editorial today, "The Boston Globe" called on Cardinal Bernard Law to resign. Renee Loth is "The Globe"'s editorial page editor. She joins me now live.
Renee, thank you so much for joining us.
Among other things, you wrote this in your editorial: "He" -- referring to Cardinal Law -- "has lost the credibility to put through the serious reforms that are called for. And for him to declare it is time to turn the page on the scandal would only appear self-serving." You wound up by saying "Cardinal Law should resign."
A difficult editorial, I'm sure, for you to write.
RENEE LOTH, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": Yes.
You know, this has been a really painful episode for so many people in the Boston area. The Catholic Church is an important institution for two million area Catholics in the archdiocese. Obviously, the victims of this awful sexual abuse, it has been very painful for them, for their families, many of whose cries for help were unfortunately ignored.
And the anguish in the Boston community really can't be overstated. And it really was reflected in the editorial board's decision as well.
BLITZER: Because, traditionally, for years, Cardinal Law has been a revered, beloved figure in New England and the greater Boston area.
LOTH: That's right. He's a very important moral authority in the Boston area.
He has prosecuted a number of important public policy issues that "The Boston Globe" also happens to share concerns for: homelessness, housing, health care, the poor. These are the work, the important work of the church that has really been overshadowed by this crisis. And we would very much like to see -- I think most of the people in the community would like to see the church get back to that. We don't believe that can happen with the current leadership.
BLITZER: Well, tell our viewers who haven't been following Cardinal Law as closely as you have, specifically, what did he do that would justify your calling on him to resign?
LOTH: Well, unfortunately, regrettably, we feel that the cardinal has had an abdication of leadership. Under his watch, there were credible allegations made against a number of priests who had, it is alleged, making sexual abuse of these young boys in their care in the church. And with the full knowledge of this, the cardinal and his associates transferred these folks, took evasive action, denied it, ignored it, hoped it would go away, put the interests -- as Attorney General Tom Reilly just said, put the interests of the institution of the church above the interests of the children.
BLITZER: Well, do you agree with the attorney general that perhaps criminal charges would not be warranted?
LOTH: Well, this is something I am going to leave up to the able lawyers at the attorney general's office.
I do know that there has been a tremendous amount of pain in the community over this. And for the church to move ahead, to be able to heal, to implement the reforms that -- perhaps some of the reforms that the cardinal himself has discussed, really requires new leadership.
BLITZER: So, do you believe he will -- Cardinal Bernard Law will resign?
LOTH: I couldn't say.
BLITZER: You know there's a lot of rumors circulating out there.
LOTH: Yes, well, he hasn't -- as he has not been available for you, he hasn't been available lately for comment to us. So it is something that he needs to decide on his own.
Of course, we felt that it was our responsibility to be heard on this question. It is something, because of his important public role, that we felt "The Boston Globe" had a standing to be heard. But, of course, it is his decision.
BLITZER: And the views that your newspaper has now taken, are they popular within Boston? Or are you going to be hammered by your Catholic readers out there because of what you wrote?
LOTH: It's been very interesting.
The relationship with "The Boston Globe" and the Catholic community has not always been easy in Boston over the last several years. But there has been -- we took three months to deliberate on this question. And we were not early to call for the cardinal to resign. And there has been a lot of dialogue with the community, with Catholics in the community, letters to the editor, conversations I have throughout Boston.
And I'm really struck by how much support, not only the editorial today, but "The Boston Globe"'s coverage of this awful story has gotten from all stations in the community. You know, most of the material in "The Globe" investigation is archdiocese documents themselves. So, there's a lot of credibility there in our reporting. BLITZER: Renee Loth, thank you so much for joining us.
LOTH: Thank you.
BLITZER: And our "Web Question of the Day" is this: "What should Cardinal Bernard Law do? Should he stay or resign?" You can vote at CNN.com/Wolf.
And while you're there, let me know what you are thinking. There is a "Click Here" icon right on the left side of my Web page. Send me your comments. I will read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, by the way, where you can read my daily online column: CNN.com/Wolf.
There are not many cases that intimidate lawyers, but this may -- may -- be one of them. Coming up: Is the government going too far in targeting terrorism? And later: high anxiety at LAX, Los Angeles International Airport.
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BLITZER: Earlier this hour, we reported that Israel has begun withdrawing from three additional West Bank villages.
Let's go to our White House correspondent Kelly Wallace. She has reaction from the White House -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Wolf.
Well, we spoke with Ari Fleischer, the president's spokesman. And here is what he tells us. He says -- quote -- "The withdrawal the president called for is continuing. And now is the time for the Arab nations and the Palestinians to act on the president's call to denounce terrorism, to stop financing terrorism, to stop incitement in state-owned media, and to support and work for the Tenet plan and the Mitchell accords." Fleischer went on to say: "Israel isn't the only one with an obligation. All parties have to do their part."
Clearly, Wolf, this White House putting more pressure on the Palestinians and the Arab states, saying President Bush made it very, very clear that he is calling on those Arab leaders and the Palestinians to denounce and condemn terrorism and to do what they can to prevent any Palestinian suicide bombings.
Asked if the White House was getting any private assurances that there will be more Israeli withdrawal before Secretary Colin Powell arrives in Israel Thursday night, this official said simply, the White House is keeping up the pressure and hoping that there will be more withdrawal -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Kelly Wallace, with the very latest from the White House with that U.S. reaction, thank you very much.
And, is a giant automaker making safety an option? Later: the plane that didn't stop soon enough. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Is Attorney General John Ashcroft taking America's war on terror too far, targeting a terrorist attorney?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They've now arrested the lawyer and the interpreter. I mean, how much further? Are they going to arrest the lady that cleans the sheik's cell?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Who will come to a defense lawyer's defense?
And the man who may have the law on his side: Does Taliban American No. 2 hold the upper hand?
The indictment of Lynne Stewart is sparking concern in the legal the community. Alan Dershowitz is a professor of law at Harvard University. He joins us now live to discuss this and other matters.
Professor Dershowitz, thanks for joining us.
Whatever happened to attorney-client privilege?
ALAN DERSHOWITZ, LAW PROFESSOR, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, the Patriot Act of 2002 abolished it, or put it in the discretion of the attorney general of the United States, who now is free, without probable cause and without a warrant, to overhear conversations between lawyers and clients, if he makes a finding that it's in the national interest to do so.
Now, in this case, they didn't have that act. And so they went and got a search warrant based on probable cause and did overhear conversations. The real problem is not with whether what she did was right. I have no brief for her at all. She is a radical lawyer who has herself advocated directed violence against capitalism. She gets much too close to her clients. I think she raises ethical questions all the time about the proper role of a lawyer and the client.
But the indictment in this case is so elastic, it's so accordion- like, it covers conduct which is not generally criminal. They basically charge her with being a magician, misdirecting attention by the guards while something was done in the cell, or allowing the translator to do something, or making a public announcement about something she was told by her client. This is a very dangerous indictment against a very dangerous lawyer.
BLITZER: But didn't this alleged incident occur in 1998, before the Patriot law went into effect?
DERSHOWITZ: That's right. And most of the statute covers events that occurred before the act went into effect. And, therefore, they didn't get a warrant. They didn't, that is, have the conversation monitored under the act.
They have basically charged her with conspiracy to provide material support to a terrorist organization. They have also charged her with lying, essentially, when she agreed to certain rules under an administrative ordinance which provides for security for inmates like this. And they claim, in effect, that, when she signed that document promising that she wouldn't have conversations with him, other than lawyer-client conversations, in her mind she knew that she would be violating that provision.
That's very dangerous, because you have to get into the inside of her head. Now, her defense is, she doesn't speak Arabic. She doesn't know what the translator and the sheik were talking about. This is going to be a very difficult case to prove, but it will have a chilling effect on lawyers even before there's any trial.
BLITZER: Because it is going to make it more difficult to get lawyers to represent unpopular clients.
DERSHOWITZ: Well, I think one message this sends is, if you're going to represent unpopular clients, don't get in bed with them. Don't advocate their cause. Don't become their spokesman to the press. Don't become their political supporters. If you play it straight, if you're just their lawyer and have a hands-off, arms- length, lawyer-client relationship with your client, I think you're safe, even under the indictment. This is a danger not to lawyers like me. It's danger to radical lawyers who get too close to their clients.
BLITZER: Switching gears, Yasser Hamdi, the so-called Taliban American No. 2, it appears -- at least what we're hearing -- the government doesn't necessarily have a great case against him, but still is determined to hold him, at least for the time being, indefinitely. Is that wise?
DERSHOWITZ: Well, I think it again reflects the Ashcroft policy, which he calls the spitting-on-the-sidewalk approach. That is, if he thinks somebody is a terrorist or helping a terrorist or a lawyer for a terrorist, he is going to indict them or hold them if they spit on the sidewalk.
He's going to selectively enforce the laws against people who he thinks are bad guys. That puts much too much power in government officials. And it's worrisome. Look, if this guy did what it is alleged he did, he deserves no sympathy, particularly if he was in fact an American. His status is very unclear, too. And it is going to provide for a difficult prosecution.
BLITZER: Alan Dershowitz, from the Harvard Law School, thanks so much for joining us.
DERSHOWITZ: Thank you.
BLITZER: And from our "Newswire": The space shuttle Atlantis docked today with the International Space Station. The Atlantis astronauts will join the space station crew in a week-long construction project installing the first piece of a framework that eventually will support solar wings and radiators.
Ever forget to set the parking brake? That could be what happened to this American Airlines 767. The empty airliner was awaiting maintenance at LAX when it began rolling. It went through a fence and finally stopped in a street used by airport workers. No one was hurt.
General Motors may make standard antilock brakes optional on some models. A top GM executive says the automaker is looking for ways to cut costs. And one possibility includes making antilock brakes an extra-price option. The Center for Auto Safety says that is not a good idea.
In a moment, viewer criticism of the Middle East crisis.
Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Let's go to New York now, get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you very much.
Coming up next: The violence in the Middle East is raging on. A suicide bomber in Haifa has killed eight people. Tonight, I'll be joined by Ambassador Alon Pinkas, consul general of Israel. I'll also be talking with former Defense Secretary William Cohen about developments in the Middle East. And we'll take a look at security within U.S. borders. Homeland Security's Tom Ridge will be here to tell us how vulnerable we are against another terrorist attack.
Also, we'll be able to tell you about a solid advance on Wall Street today: the Dow Jones industrial scoring its best performance in five weeks. We'll tell you what was behind the rally. And tonight in "The Dobbs Report," I'll have a few thoughts on some rather insulting statements by the former prime minister of Israel today -- all of that and a lot more at the top of the hour. Please join us.
BLITZER: We certainly will. Thank you very much, Lou Dobbs.
And now the results of our "Web Question of the Day." We asked earlier this question: "What should Cardinal Bernard Law do, stay or resign?" Look at this, most of you, 94 percent so far, say he should resign. Only 6 percent of you say he should stay. A reminder: This poll is not scientific.
Time now to hear directly from you.
Paul writes this: "How can Bush command Israel to halt their offensive on terrorism when the U.S. is doing the same thing in Afghanistan in their operation against al Qaeda and bin Laden?"
But Glenda feels very differently: "Sharon and the Israeli government are terrorists. The fact that they still occupy land they had given back to the Palestinians shows their arrogance and ill will."
That's all the time we have today.
On the show tomorrow: a devout Catholic who is angry at his church and the alleged cover-up of sexual abuse. Don't miss Bill Bennett tomorrow, 5:00 Eastern. Then, this Friday, the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, will be my guest with a briefing on the war on terrorism. It's Friday, 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Sunday, a special "LATE EDITION" -- among my guests: the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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