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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Is September 11 Investigation in Trouble?; Palestinians Leave Sacred Sanctuary
Aired April 30, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: a break and a setback on the anti-terror front. The head of an Islamic charity is arrested, accused of lying about links to Osama bin Laden. But another perjury indictment is tossed out. Is the September 11 investigation in trouble?
Palestinians leave a sacred sanctuary, but wanted gunmen stay put, some of them in disguise.
Airline security: Is there now a chance that pilots will pack sidearms?
Guantanamo goes Hollywood.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "JAG")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, this is not a court-martial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: "JAG's" version of the terrorism tribunals may be as close as you'll get to the real thing.
And you men out there have a biological clock too, and it's ticking.
It's Tuesday, April 30, 2002. Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
The Justice Department says Osama bin Laden still has some friends at large here in the United States and is taking steps to arrest them. That tops our news alert.
The Syrian-born director of an Illinois-based charity has been arrested and charged with lying about links to international terrorism. Documents say Enaam Arnaout had contact with an associate of Osama bin Laden who had tried to obtain nuclear weapons for Al- Qaeda. The material also alleges the charity was used by Al-Qaeda for logistical support.
A federal judge today may have dealt a blow to the September 11th investigation, dismissing charges against a Jordanian student accused of lying about his ties to two of the hijackers. The judge ruled authorities had no right to detain Osama Awadallah as a material witness for a grand jury investigation. Dozens of others are being held under similar circumstances. We will have much more on this in just a few moments.
And an aide to U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan says he's now leaning toward disbanding a U.N. fact-finding team assigned to look into events at the Jenin refugee camp on the West Bank. This after Israel, fearing an unfair outcome, decided not to cooperate with the team. Meantime, progress in a different standoff, 26 Palestinians today walked out of Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity. Among those still inside, some 20 gunmen Israel says are Palestinian terrorists.
The leader of the Free World comes down on those who have been attacking a way of life. In recent weeks, across Europe, Jews have been subjected to acts of vandalism, arson and physical violence. President Bush, in a speech to business and civic leaders in California, called for tolerance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We reject the ancient evil of anti-Semitism whether it is practiced by the killers of Daniel Pearl or by those who burn synagogues in France.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
More now on our top story, is accused of covering up longtime ties to Osama bin Laden and using his group's funds to aid the Al- Qaeda terror group. The head of a Muslim charity now under arrest in Chicago. Let's bring in CNN Justice Correspondent, Kelly Arena. She joins us with details -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Enaam Arnaout, the Executive Director of the Benevolence International Foundation was arrested today and is being held without bond. Now BIF is one of the largest Muslim charities in the United States. Arnaout is accused of lying about his organizations links to international terrorism. The government says he has a long-standing relationship with Osama bin Laden and his organization is accused of moving money to fund terrorist operations and providing logistical support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: The message to be taken today is that we are seeking to make sure that people do not raise money for violence and do not do so in the United States and they certainly do not commit perjury or obstruction of justice in the process. And the message is also that we're seeking to vindicate the true intention of people who gave them the money, which is for legitimate causes, not for violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Arnaout is not charged with terrorism but rather perjury. And his lawyer contends he's been willing along to cooperate with the U.S. government but that the offer was rebuffed. Arnaout had sued the federal government for freezing the assets of his charitable organization. In January, when that suit was file, the foundation said the Benevolence International Foundation is a lawful humanitarian organization. It does not engage in or fund terrorist activity. But the government says interviews with witnesses, pictures and seized documents prove otherwise -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Kelli Arena with the latest on this arrest. Thank you very much. Let's move on now. In New York, a move, which may have major consequences for the government's anti-terror investigation, a federal judge frees a Jordanian man suspected of ties to the September 11th hijackers. CNN's Deborah Feyerick has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days after the attacks on America, 21-year-old college student, Osama Awadallah, was arrested in San Diego. Prosecutors saying his name was found in the car of one of the hijackers. Armed with a material witness warrant, investigators jailed Awadallah, holding him for nearly three months hoping he could give them information on at least two of the hijackers.
While he admitted knowing one, he denied knowing the other and was charged with perjury. But no new evidence turned up showing he had committed any crime.
A federal judge now saying the federal material witness statute does not give prosecutors a green light to hold someone just because prosecutors think that person may have information that could help in a grand jury investigation. Defense Attorney and Former Prosecutor, Sean O'Shea, agrees.
SEAN O'SHEA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY AND FORMER PROSECUTOR: Since September 11th, the government has been utilizing the material witness warrant almost to its breaking point and I think today's opinion by the Judge Shinland (ph) means that it's taking it beyond it's breaking point. By using it as essentially as a dragnet device to imprison people without trial as to whom there might be a suspicion or that they may have information.
FEYERICK: U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft calling the judge's ruling "an anomaly."
JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The department's use of material witness warrants is fully consistent with the law and long- standing practice. Numerous other judges have authorized the use of material witness warrants in the settings that we have been using them.
FEYERICK: Justice officials are deciding the best way to appeal.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): It's unclear exactly how many held as material witnesses will be affected by the ruling. The Justice Department has been keeping secret those names and numbers. But civil libertarians say this ruling could mean dozens of men behind bars may be able to make the case that they, too, should be let go. Awadallah's lawyer says, in his words, his client; out on bail since December "can get on with his life." The judge also tossing out the perjury charge against him -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Deborah Feyerick in New York. Thank you very much.
So what are the implications of this latest anti-terror arrest and the government's anti-terror investigation? Is it in jeopardy following the ruling in the Awadallah case? Joining me here in Washington is Victoria Toensing. She's a Former Federal Prosecutor, Former Official in the Justice Department. Thanks so much Victoria for coming in. How much of a setback is this for the federal government, the judge's decision to release Awadallah in New York?
VICTORIA TOENSING, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER OFFICIAL IN THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT: Wolf, almost none at all. It affects this case and depending on whether the government appeals it, it may not even affect this case. In a nutshell, what this judge said was, hey, look at that material witness statute. It can't be used for a grand jury investigation. It can only be used when there's actually an indictment having been presented by the grand jury, when there's really a case. It's very technical in what she did. She's a trial judge. She ignored an appellate court in California and said you know what, I know that a court above me ruled otherwise but tough, they were just wrong.
BLITZER: Was she wrong then?
TOENSING: Well I read -- I mean she quotes Marberry (ph) versus Madison (ph) and a whole bunch of other irrelevant cases. I read it. I think if it were appealed, she'd be overturned.
BLITZER: But in the meantime, he walks free, Awadallah?
TOENSING: In the meantime, he walks free. But she did not apply this case to any other people and the material witness and certainly nobody outside of the southern district would be subject to her ruling.
BLITZER: And the attorney general says it's a novelty.
TOENSING: It is.
BLITZER: Let's move on to talk about an Illinois, the case involving the arrest of this official involved in this Islamic charity. How hard of a case is this based on what you know right now to prove?
TOENSING: Well I've read -- this is a 38 (ph) complaint. This is a day for lots of papers coming out of the Justice Department. It's a 38-page affidavit by the FBI agent. It's a complaint right now. It hasn't gone to a grand jury. And it's got -- you know where all these cases go. Wolf, it's in the perjury, lying about the underlying cause. He's not really being charged or -- with being with Osama bin Laden but information about -- and you know what he did? His organization sued the Justice Department and the government for seizing his assets and it's in those papers that the government says he lied. That was kind of a silly move on his part.
BLITZER: Yeah. The attorney general had said earlier that they would use the Robert Kennedy example that if somebody from the mob gets caught spitting on a sidewalk, they would use that as a basis to arrest. Is this the kind of thing that they're looking at, a relatively minor charge but looking for perhaps bigger fish?
TOENSING: Well perjury isn't a minor charge. And I say particularly when somebody uses the courts to enhance their perjury or to utilize their perjury, it's not a minor charge. But I certainly agree with the philosophy that we have to get the terrorists every place we can and if one place is in filing false affidavits, then we should charge them.
BLITZER: Is in the bigger scheme of things, these two case cases the overall legal strategy in the civil courts instead of military commissions or tribunals, which some had recommended, which of course aren't even in business yet, in the scheme of things, how did the federal government do today in the war on terror?
TOENSING: Well by the charging in Chicago, they did very well, and as I said, the situation in New York is very limited and it may not even affect that case if they decide to go to an appeal.
BLITZER: If you had to make an assessment right now in the Chicago case, in Illinois, is this just the tip of the iceberg or are they going after a lot of these Islamic charities looking for evidence that there could be links to al Qaeda?
TOENSING: I'll tell you what struck me in reading the 38-page affidavit and that is how thorough an investigating job was done. They linked this organization to all over the world, from the Philippines terrorism groups to Bosnia. They went -- it appeared that they either got a search warrant or went through trash, whichever way it had to turnout, but they were talking about things that were found in the trash that had to do with smallpox epidemic. So they -- and they've got at least two confidential informants. So this is a very thorough investigation. Doesn't do well if you indict somebody in a terrorism case and you don't have strong evidence.
BLITZER: Victoria Toensing, you'll be back later in the program. Thanks so much for joining us.
And amid continuing concern over the terror threat, there is proposal in Congress to allow commercial airline pilots to carry guns in the cockpit. CNN's Patty Davis reports the plan has strong support among many pilots.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mock gun battle in midair, training for Federal Air Marshals. You may see airline pilots doing the same. Two top House Transportation Committee leaders say arming pilots is the only real way to stop terrorists.
REP. JOHN MICA (R), FLORIDA: Why should a pilot be denied the ability to defend himself, his crew and the passengers on board?
DAVIS: They're proposing legislation that would allow pilots known as Federal Flight Deck Officers to carry guns on a voluntary basis. First, though, they would have to undergo training and criminal background checks. The proposal is backed by the largest pilot's union.
CAPT. STEVE LUCKEY: I'm talking about the circular application of lethal force at very close ranges, probably less than five feet.
DAVIS: Congress has all right already OK'd arming pilots but left the final go ahead to the New Transportation Security Administration and the airline.
But because the Bush Administration and most airlines oppose the idea, worrying passengers could get in the line of fire, the congressmen want to bypass that opposition and get guns into pilot's hands as soon as possible. Some aviation experts say the plane could also be damaged by a stray bullet.
PETER GOETZ, FORMER NTSA OFFICIAL: With the gun going off in the cockpit, there is the possibility it could damage vital flight controls, the avionics. It could rupture a window.
DAVIS: One airline, United, agrees. They're training pilots to use non-lethal taser stun guns instead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look at all of the pluses and the minuses, the taser came out on top.
DAVIS: Meanwhile, the federal government is focusing on keeping guns and other weapons off planes. The first federal screeners are now on the job at Baltimore-Washington International Airport. The hope they'll catch terrorists before they board. Pilot's say if they don't, it's up to them. Guns are their last line of defense.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands on top of your head, police, place don't move.
DAVIS: Patty Davis, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And our Web question of the day is this. Do you think arming pilots will prevent terrorist attacks? You can vote, go to my Web page CNN.com/wolf. While you're there, send me your comments. I'll read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. It's also, by the way, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We turn now to the situation in the Middle East where some military confrontations show signs of easing but a diplomatic standoff has deteriorated. Let's go live to CNN's Matthew Chance. He's in the West Bank town of Ramallah. He joins us on the phone with late breaking developments -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. So many developments here in the Middle East. Let's start in Ramallah from where I'm speaking to you right now. Meetings are continuing to end the standoff around Yasser Arafat's presidential compound. They've been continuing throughout the day between Palestinian officials and security experts from Britain and the United States. Much of the day has been focused on Jericho in the West Bank, expecting a Palestinian prison there where the Palestinians -- the six Palestinians inside the presidential compound wanted by Israel alongside Yasser Arafat are to be, in turn, under international monitored guard, under that U.S. plan, which has already been accepted by the Israeli leadership and the Palestinian leadership. That, in turn, promises, once that's implemented, Mr. Yasser Arafat free to move around the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
In Bethlehem, another standoff with -- moving towards resolution. Twenty six people today, both civilians and Palestinian security personnel, walked out of the Church of the Nativity where there's been a long-running a stand-off between Palestinian inside the church along with civilians and nuns and priests and members of the Christian faith and Israeli security forces outside. There are still 120 inside, 20 of whom Israel says are wanted for conducting terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.
Finally Jenin, a controversy continuing over what did or did not happen over there. The Israeli cabinet rejecting any further cooperation with the U.N. Commission of Inquiry. The U.N. Secretary General saying he is leaving heavily towards abandoning the whole idea. So there's some positive sign here from Ramallah and also some negative ones as well -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Matthew Chance with the late developments in Ramallah. Thank you very much.
Let's get more perspective to find out where things stand in the Middle East and where they may be headed. I'm joined from Jerusalem by Dore Gold; he's a Senior Adviser to Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. He's a Former Israeli Ambassador to the United Nation and here in Washington, Michael Tarazi. He's the Legal Adviser to the Palestine Liberation Organization.
Gentlemen, thanks for joining us. And Michael, your understanding is what? That as soon as these six prisons -- these six suspects are given supervision by British and U.S. personnel, Yasser Arafat will be free to roam around the West Bank Gaza as much as he wants in?
MICHAEL TARAZI, LEGAL ADVISER TO PALESTINE LIBERATION ORGANIZATION: Wolf, it really demonstrates how when the international community applies itself and really seeks to propose bridging proposals that bridge otherwise seemingly bridgeless gaps, we can accomplish something. What the United State and the U.K. have said is that they will provide guards to allay Israel's concerns that these gentlemen will be set free.
Perfect. Now what we need to do is build on that momentum, set this as a precedent and get more internationals involved in what's going on the ground because we now see that it works.
BLITZER: Well what about that Dore Gold? Is that your understanding as well that Yasser Arafat will be free to move about as much as he wants following the implementation of this President Bush proposed agreement?
DORE GOLD, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRIME MINISTER ARIEL SHARON: That's a correct assessment. We decided to go along with President Bush's request. It was a very difficult request for the state of Israel. Imagine, if you god forbid had a member of the Bush Administration who had been shot by a terrorist organization and killed and you knew who the people were who perpetrated that crime, I'm sure the U.S. government, all its security agencies would do what would be possible to make sure that person would be brought to justice. We have the same determination in Israel but we took into account American regional interest. President Bush is a great friend of Israel and we've decided to go along with his compromise.
BLITZER: Ambassador Gold, if Yasser Arafat decides to leave the West Bank or Gaza, go to Europe or someplace else, is he free to come back?
GOLD: Well we have stated that he'll be free to travel. Now, of course, many things depend on what happens in the future. If Yasser Arafat goes to an Arab state and gives speeches calling for suicide bombings and those bombings transpire and the type of environment that develops is one that plunges us back into the kind of violence that we've been experiencing, I'm sure the Israeli cabinet will revisit that question.
BLITZER: What is your sense? Is Yasser Arafat going to take advantage of this and start traveling all over the world?
TARAZI: Well I think what Mr. Gold is saying is that we're setting President Arafat up. We're going to let him out now. There will, of course, be more terrorist attacks because Israeli hasn't done anything to actually destroy the terrorist infrastructure. In fact, they spent the last week actually building up the terrorist infrastructure. So what they're doing is they're letting President Arafat know when there's another terrorist attack they'll blame him for it and then they'll take more severe action than they've already taken.
BLITZER: So when -- when you said they're building up the terrorist infrastructure, what do you mean by that?
TARAZI: Well I mean we have to understand that there's a political context of terrorism that's going on inside of Israel. It's a context of oppression of the Palestinian people for the last 35 years. All Israel has done over the last month is oppress them even more, in fact for the last year and a half. That's the way you create suicide bombers, not how you fight them. BLITZER: All right. Ambassador Gold do you want to briefly respond to that?
GOLD: I'm sorry. I have to come in on this. You know, there is no other country on earth that has taken greater risks for peace than Israel. We took an organization, the PLO, whose founding document, the PLO charter, calls for the destruction of Israel. We took a chance that Yasser Arafat was maybe going to be Nelson Mandela. We brought him to the West Bank and Gaza. We withdrew our military government over the Palestinians and established a Palestinian government over the Palestinian people.
If there was any occupation of the Palestinians in 1999, it was an Arafat occupation. And nonetheless, we have this kind of violence hurled at the people of Israel. We've had endless numbers of suicide bombings in the heart of our cities. Now, I hear Palestinian spokesmen speaking about oppression, speaking about deprivation. Nothing in the world justifies sending a young Palestinian into a crowded Israeli cafe and murdering 20 Israelis, nothing.
BLITZER: All right. Go ahead, very briefly.
TARAZI: Well I certainly agree with Mr. Gold. There's absolutely nothing in the world that justifies terrorism. Certainly, oppression and occupation does not justify terrorism.
By same token, terrorism does not justify oppression and occupation but we do have to understand there's a link between the two. And I have to point out, Wolf, that really what happened after Oslo was they brought the PLO into act as Israel's security guards on behalf of the Israeli army but they never gave the Palestinians freedom.
BLITZER: All right. I want to move on talk about the situation in Bethlehem. Ambassador Gold, the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces released some video of what they say was a Palestinian gunman holed up in the Church of the Nativity dressed as a nun. We're showing that on our screen right now. What do you know about that?
GOLD: Well, we've had repeated cases of the abuse of holy sites in Bethlehem, particularly the Church of the Nativity with Tanzim gunmen. We've had our Israeli soldiers shot at from the Church of the Nativity with their understanding, they the Tanzim gunmen, that we're not going to return fire into sensitive religious sites. Hopefully this terrible mess is coming to an end and the Tanzim gunmen of Yasser Arafat will leave this holy site and return it to those who take care of it.
BLITZER: I know that you haven't been closely following the situation in Bethlehem Michael, but you have been looking into the situation in Jenin. Initially Saeb Erakat, other Palestinians said 500 Palestinians may have been massacred at Jenin. Now all of the recent evidence including our own Sheila MacVicar saying they've documented 53 Palestinians and no evidence of a massacre, although, violations of human rights. TARAZI: Right. But the argument, Wolf, is, is that Israelis spent six-days after when -- from the time the last armed Palestinian surrendered, they spent six-days hiding the evidence. We don't know what they did during those six-days. They wouldn't allow anyone to go in and so perhaps they removed bodies, perhaps they hid evidence. You're not going to see evidence of a mastermind walking around the rubble. So Israel keeps saying it has nothing to hide but in every step of the way, they try to hide something.
BLITZER: Well what about that Ambassador Gold? If you say you have nothing to hide, why not let Kofi Annan and that U.N. team go in and do a fact-finding check?
GOLD: Well we accepted resolution 1405, which called for this fact-finding mission. But between our acceptance of resolution 1405 and the present, there have been unfortunately changes in what seem to be technical issues, the terms of reference, the mandate of this body. What's clear is that when 1405 was passed by the Security Council, Saeb Erakat was on CNN along with Arafat and everybody else, talking massacre, talking about hundreds of Palestinians that were killed. It turns out, as you pointed out and your other CNN correspondents have pointed out, there are about 50 bodies that have been found in this entire deal.
We're not talking about a massacre. We're talking about a battle.
BLITZER: All right ...
TARAZI: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BLITZER: Ambassador Gold, let me interrupt because we're almost out of time Ambassador Gold. I just want to clarify Sheila MacVicar was quoting international observers, U.N. officials who had gone into Jenin saying they've only come up only in quotes with 53 bodies as opposed to the hundreds that were initially suspected by Palestinians. Ambassador Gold, standby, I just want to give Michael Tarazi the last word on this.
TARAZI: Yeah. Well I think it's very important. If it's really only 53 bodies then what are they trying to hide? Let us go in. Let us call witnesses. Let us investigate. Let us take aerial surveys to see if there are mass graves outside the rubble.
BLITZER: All right.
TARAZI: But they don't let us do that.
BLITZER: We have to leave it, unfortunately, right there. Michael Tarazi here in Washington, Ambassador Dore Gold, always good to have you on the program as well. Thanks to both of you very much.
And this note, for the latest developments in the Middle East, please join us tonight at 8:00 Eastern. Our Jerusalem bureau chief Mike Hanna will report LIVE FROM BETHLEHEM. That's at 8:00 Eastern tonight. And in a moment, the Chandra Levy investigation one year later. Is Gary Condit holding out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
LARRY KING, HOST: You think he knows more?
SUSAN LEVY, CHANDRA LEVY'S MOTHER: I think he does. I think he could be helping us more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And why did Florida Governor Jeb Bush choke up earlier today?
The fertility fear: Why aging men need to be aware?
And a warning about school lunches. Learn about the rising danger to your children. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
She vanished without a trace one year ago. While police have scaled back their search efforts for Chandra Levy, they have not given up and neither have her parents. A federal grand jury is also investigating, and a few weeks ago called Congressman Gary Condit to answer questions. He has been linked romantically to the former government intern, a fact not lost on her parents.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
KING: Do you believe he was involved? I mean, you have hinted at it, you said it, you're suspicious. In your gut feeling, do you think he was involved?
BOB LEVY, CHANDRA'S FATHER: Well, I -- I know he was involved with Chandra, so I believe he had something do with it.
KING: So he had something do -- you think he knows more than he is saying?
B. LEVY: I'm not sure what he said to the grand jury. You know, he does know something, though.
KING: You are positive. You think he knows more than he is saying?
MRS. LEVY, CHANDRA'S MOTHER: I think he does. I think he could be helping us more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Chandra Levy's disappearance, of course, gained national attention because of her friendship with the Congressman. Gary Condit was among the first to ask authorities for help when she disappeared.
Talk more about the case one year later, I'm joined once again by former Justice Department official, Victoria Toensing. Vicki, are law enforcement authorities any closer today to resolving this mystery than they were a year ago?
TOENSING: Probably not, Wolf. We don't know, though, that the only thing that the grand jury is looking at is the disappearance of Chandra Levy. I suspect they are also looking at an obstruction of justice charge against Gary Condit. He was called before the grand jury. He was there a very short period of time; less than an hour. That says to me, that he probably took the Fifth Amendment.
BLITZER: This whole grand jury was convened very, very late in this process. How unusual is this, almost a year into the investigation?
TOENSING: Well, you know, the Robert Blake case, took a year and they had a body and a murder weapon. So it is not unusual for a murder investigation to take a year. I also think that events in the District of Columbia, after September 11, might have put some things on the back burner that are now just coming to the fore.
But it is not that unusual where there is no body for an investigation to take a long time.
BLITZER: John Walsh, host of "America's Most Wanted" was on "AMERICAN MORNING" with Paula Zahn earlier today. And he was asked about Congressman Gary Condit. He simply said the police ruled him out in the beginning. He is not a suspect in her disappearance. Although, you are suggesting that perhaps there may be other lesser charges that might be investigated, as far as he is concerned.
TOENSING: Yes, obstruction of justice. You don't have to be guilty of the underlying crime in order to be indicted and convicted for obstruction of justice. Now Condit had an interview with the D.C. Police in the early days. He wasn't fully forthcoming. So no prosecutor would just go on that. He tried to dispose of a watch from yet another girlfriend in Virginia. And that's not getting close.
But here is what he did, that I think is pretty crucial. And I assume the grand jury is looking at. He asked another girlfriend, Ann Marie Smith, a former flight attendant to lie in an affidavit, according to her all of her interviews also on "LARRY KING." And that may be real fruit for the prosecution here in the District of Columbia.
BLITZER: All right. Victoria Toensing, one year later in the disappearance of Chandra Levy. Thank you so much for joining us. Double duty today. Appreciate it very much. This important note, for more from Chandra Levy's parents tune in tonight for "LARRY KING LIVE," that is at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific right here, of course, on CNN.
And a painful subject was tackled today by Florida's governor. Jeb Bush was talking to a group about drugs and addiction when he started choking back some tears. He was trying to thank all those who have written to help him in support and prayer for his daughter -- Noel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I just get emotional sometimes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It is a tough topic for you?
BUSH: Yes, it is. This is not easy.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How is your daughter doing?
BUSH: She is doing all right. But just -- it is not easy to always be worried that someone who is addicted to substances, you know, as a dad, I love her very much. I want her to be able to live a healthy, fulfilled life. And we have been struggling with this for a long time. So I don't why I brought it up, because I knew I would cry. It was stupid of me to talk about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: As you might remember, Noelle Bush was arrested in January on charges she tried to buy Xanax with a fraudulent prescription. She is now undergoing treatment.
More than a quarter century after the Watergate scandal forced President Richard Nixon to leave office, one of the key figures from that area thinks he solved a lingering mystery. Former White House Council John Dean says he has figured out the identity of the so- called "deep throat," the shadowy figure who helped "Washington Post" reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein unravel the scandal.
Dean told me earlier today, he'll reveal the conclusions on June 17, the 30th anniversary of the break in in Watergate. For now, though, he is only saying the individual he has identified as "deep throat" is still alive. He wouldn't tell me, of course, who he believes "deep throat" is.
For President Richard Nixon, there of course was President Lyndon Johnson. Like Nixon, Johnson was a bigger than life figure that continues to fascinate supporters and critics alike. Robert Caro is the author of "Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate." It's the latest in his important series on Johnson biographies.
And, of course, he is here to talk with us now. Congratulations on your highly acclaimed new book, which is obviously like the others, fabulous as we all know. One of the things you write in the book, Mr. Caro, you say this: "I do not," I referring to Lyndon Johnson, "I do understand power. Whatever else maybe said about me, I know where look for it and how to use it." He was the master of using that power.
ROBERT CARO, AUTHOR, "LYNDON JOHNSON: MASTER OF THE SENATE": He was and in the Senate he was using legislative power. In America when we talk about power, we only mean presidential power. To watch Johnson rise to power in the Senate, you know in those days the only thing that mattered was seniority. Your first two years you're not even supposed to speak then on the floor. At the end of his first two years, Lyndon Johnson was assistant leader of his party. At end of four years, he is leader of his party. At the end of six years, he is majority leader. Younger and faster than any man in history.
BLITZER: And this son of the south went on to force through civil rights legislation, the first legislation since reconstruction. How did he do that?
CARO: It's an incredible feat. No bill, as you say, had passed in 82 years. The south has all of the power in the Senate. Johnson sets out in 1957 to ram this bill through. To watch him do it; persuading the southerners of one thing, the liberals of another thing. Going back and forth between them in the cloak room, roaming the floor, putting his arm around you. Making you believe in him, was an amazing feat.
BLITZER: And throughout the 50s he worked his way up, became the Senate majority leader. There was another senator, named John F. Kennedy, who was just a regular senator who later got the presidential nomination, became president; LBJ, vice president. Talk about the relationship between Johnson and Kennedy.
CARO: Well, in the Senate, of course, Johnson didn't even take Kennedy seriously, because he was a back bencher. He didn't do very much in the Senate. And Johnson was the all powerful majority leader. He was more wary of Kennedy's father, Joe Kennedy, because he felt that he was the power behind the Kennedys. And that was the man that Johnson was really confronted with.
BLITZER: As much as you admire Johnson for his use of power, his skillful legislative abilities, you also paint a picture of a man who could be quite crude and quite mean-spirited, as well. The relationship with Ladybird, for example, his wife.
CARO: The relationship with Ladybird is painful. He is very cruel to her, he is very crude, has mistresses. But it changes in 1955. You know, he has this massive heart attack. He almost dies. He is in the hospital for six weeks. He later said, every time I moved my hand, I heard her feet hit the floor, she slept in the room and she came running. At the end of that heart attack, their relationship has changed.
They go back to the ranch, and George Reidy (ph), says I never saw a woman whose happiness shone out of her face so much.
BLITZER: Is the whole -- the whole relationship, when you say it changed, he stopped having affairs?
CARO: I didn't say that. His relationship did not exchange to sexual faith fullness.
BLITZER: One of the things you also write in the book, and I will read it, there is this quoted, it jumped out at me: "I'm just like a Fox. I can see the jugular in any man and go for it. But I always keep myself in reign, I keep myself on a leash, just like you would an animal."
CARO: And, you know, in that case he wasn't telling the complete truth. Because sometimes he let himself off the leash. Of all of the episodes in this book, "Master of the Senate," he destroys a man named Leland Olds. Doesn't just defeat him, but destroy him. Olds is the chairman of the Federal Power Commission. The natural gas operators in Texas who have financed Johnson's rise want him to defeat Olds' renomination. He does it, and this is two years before Joe McCarthy gives his first speech.
By painting Olds as a communist, his key line in the Senate floor is do we want a commissioner or a commissar? And he digs up -- you know, when Olds was in his 20s, he worked for a wire service like the Associated Press. It was called the Federated Press. It had 80 subscribers. Most of them were mainstream papers. One was the "Communist Daily Worker." Johnson had his staff assemble 54 articles that appeared in the "Daily Worker" from Leland Olds and persuades the Senate with him that Olds was a communist.
BLITZER: Unbelievable. You know, this is a great book. It took 10 years to write this one. You're working on the third volume now. When are we going to see that one?
CARO: Oh, next week.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: We will look forward to it. Robert Caro, everything you write is brilliant and I can't speak enough about this book. Thank you very much.
CARO: Thanks.
BLITZER: Appreciate it very much. Good luck.
And the defense department goes Hollywood. Tonight's episode of "JAG" focuses on military tribunals. But where is the line between fact and fiction? The show's creator joins us live right after the break.
Plus, we'll take you to a galaxy that's very, very far away. A bird's eye view from the Hubble telescope.
And why are so many kids getting food poisoning at school? The story that may have you packing your child's lunch tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Since shortly after the September 11 attacks, there has been talk about military tribunals that could be used to try suspected al Qaeda terrorists. Tonight, Americans can get a preview of how those tribunals, or commissions as the Pentagon calls them, might work. This evening's episode of "JAG", a CBS drama series dealing with the military justice system, will depict the military trial of a suspected terrorist. Here is a brief excerpt.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "JAG")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be seated. Is the government ready to proceed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it would please the court, your honor, I'd like to object my client being shackled like an animal. It's unnecessary, inhumane and prejudicial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, the shackles are there to insure security and proper order during these proceedings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marines, remove the handcuffs, legal leg irons. If there any incidents, they'll be put back on. Ready, commander.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, the government calls Army Captain Dale Alexander (ph).
Captain, what was your mission on the night in question and please describe it for the court in as much detail as possible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To apprehend Mustafa Atif (ph), aka Mohann Biss (ph), sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, move to strike, it's not been established that Mr. Atif (ph) and Mohann Biss are one and the same.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sustained and stricken.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Don Bellisario is the creator and executive producer of "JAG." He joins us now live from Los Angeles. Don, thank you so much for joining us.
How much cooperation did you get from the Pentagon in trying to be as precise and as accurate in this kind of military trial involving a suspected terrorist as possible?
DON BELLISARIO, JAG EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Well, they gave us a lot of cooperation as far as our accuracy, although they did it with the caveat that this could change in the future, that they did not know exactly what form these tribunals might take. And so, with that in mind, we made the episode.
BLITZER: Is there -- would you say that they had veto power? Did they review the script in any way to make sure it was as accurate as possible?
BELLISARIO: No, they had no veto power. In fact, there are at least three elements in this script which the Pentagon didn't like. For example, we talked and put up a defense by an international legal expert to give legitimacy to the al Qaeda. That was the part the defense put on. We talked about the U.S. use of landmines, and say doesn't that make us terrorists as part of the defense put on. We talked about the intimidation of the prisoner and deprivation of sleep and light and loud noise for a period of a week as part of breaking him down to get a confession. Those were all things that the Pentagon was not happy with us putting in the show.
So, I find there's been a lot of media accusations that the Pentagon is telling us what to do in the shows. It's just the furthest thing from the truth.
BLITZER: Was there -- the terrorist suspect in the show tonight, was he based on a real life suspect or was it sort of a composite of some others? Some have made the comparison to Abu Zubaydah, for example.
BELLISARIO: No, he was a terrorist that we created. And it just so happened after we had finished filming the episode, that the No. 3 terrorist in the al Qaeda, as the government is now saying, was caught in Pakistan. That happened after the episode was completely finished. And it's also very eerie that the character that we have, or the actor we have portraying this character, looks very similar to the real, No. 3 terrorist, I use the government's term, No. 3.
BLITZER: All right. Don Bellisario, he's the creator and the executive producer of "JAG." Thanks for joining us.
BELLISARIO: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Appreciate it.
The new camera that was installed on the Hubble Space Telescope just last month already has taken some spectacular pictures. CNN science correspondent Ann Kellan takes a closer look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANN KELLAN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Behold the first snaps taken from orbit by a $75 million camera that you paid for.
HOLLAND FORD, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: We had underestimated how extraordinary the images would be.
KELLAN: This cluster of galaxies is named for its shape: the tadpole.
FORD: 420 million light years away, we see a spectacular tail of stars that stretches across the image, is composed of stars, gas and dust.
KELLAN: This one, called the mice, shows two galaxies colliding and gives us a peek at what scientists expect is going to happen to our own galaxy.
FORD: Our Milky Way and our nearest large neighbor, the Andromeda Galaxy, are falling towards one another. Several billion years in the future, the Milky Way and Andromeda will likely undergo a merger like the one you are seeing at this moment. The simulation shows that the two galaxies will eventually merge, forming a large elliptical-like galaxy.
KELLAN: This is just a test drive of the camera, offering one example of what scientists hope to learn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe just go a little bit to your left.
KELLAN: It's called the advanced camera for surveys, and replaces the faint-object camera onboard the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope. Shuttle astronauts Jim Newman and Mike Massimino made the switch in March. The new camera is designed with new lenses and updated optics for sharper, higher-resolution images and can peer farther into space to capture faint objects billions of light years away.
Ann Kellan, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And women aren't the only ones with a ticking biological clock. Learn what happens to men as they get older.
Also, should you be concerned about a new warning about school lunches? We'll tell you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked, when does a man's fertility begin to decrease? According to study in the May issue of "Human Reproduction," a man's fertility begins to decrease in his late 30's and a woman's fertility begins to decreases in her late 20's.
Well, let's follow up that little news quiz. A word of caution for those of you who have been putting off having children. You might want to reconsider now that we have some new studies. Let's turn to CNN medical correspondent Rhonda Rowland. Rhonda, obviously, everybody knows that women supposedly have a clicking biological clock. But what about men?
RHONDA ROWLAND, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, men do have a ticking biological clock. And the conventional wisdom has been that their fertility does not start to decline until age 50. Well, there's a new study out shattering that convention wisdom, which shows that it actually starts to decline at age 35.
So, just say on a woman's most fertile day, a 35-year-old man has a 29-percent chance of helping her to get pregnant. And that drops down to an 18-percent chance at age 40. And in fact, Wolf, a lot of people don't realize that in infertile couples, that 40 percent of the time, the infertility is due to the male's infertility.
BLITZER: So, Rhonda, why do men start losing their fertility at age 35?
ROWLAND: Well, researchers say there are a number of reasons. One are some environmental factors. They're not sure exactly what they are yet. Also, hormonal changes, and also with time, a male's sperm becomes a little weaker. So that means it cannot penetrate the egg as easily. So there are technologies to help couples with this, but this is the reality. So for men who are serious about becoming fathers, they may want to start becoming serious about it if they're in their 30's.
BLITZER: All right. Well, we all know those highly publicized cases, Strom Thurmond, Anthony Quinn, Jack Lemmon, men in their 60's, 70's, 80's fathering children. What's that about?
ROWLAND: Well, that's about younger wives because a woman's infertility doesn't to decline until her late 20's. And indeed, we've heard of these cases, Strom Thurmond, fathering his first of four children at 69, Tony Randall had two children in the late 70's, Anthony Quinn fathered his last child in the early 80's. And so, that's where we've gotten this conventional wisdom that men can father children forever. But that's just not the case.
BLITZER: While I have you, Rhonda, a separate study, a congressional study out today that says that schools may be a source of food poisoning for their young kids, perhaps as many as 10 percent increase per year in food poisoning. What's going on?
ROWLAND: Well, that is a report that we heard about. It got my attention since I have a son going off to kindergarten next year. I wondered if I needed to pack his lunch.
Well, we talked to the CDC, the FDA, the USDA, the government agencies responsible for keeping school lunches safe. And they don't want to panic America's parents. They have a couple different points. One is that there is an increase in reporting of these outbreaks because they're trying to encourage it, so we're hearing about more outbreaks. Also, they say that our food supply is very safe and they're just trying to get it safer. And in fact, the CDC researcher told me that he doesn't pack his children's lunches.
BLITZER: All right. When I went to school, the food was delicious in my school and I never got food poisoning. Rhonda Rowland, thanks for joining us.
And let's go to New York now, get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you very much.
More than two dozen Palestinians leave the Church of the Nativity while Yasser Arafat remains confined to his compound. The United Nations considering disbanding that fact-finding mission into the Jenin refugee camp. We'll have the latest for you from the Middle East. And the Israeli cabinet minister who is amongst the most militant will be among our guests tonight.
The chief executive of Worldcom has stepped down the company that he built. We'll tell you about the outlook for the troubled telecom. And a powerful rally to tell you about on Wall Street today. Stock strategist Joe Battapaglia (ph) will join us. All of that, a lot more, coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us.
Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou. We'll be watching.
But before you take your next flight, you might want to answer this question: Do you think arming pilots will prevent terrorist attacks? Go to my Web site, cnn.com/wolf. You can still vote. We'll give you the results when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now the results of our Web question of the day: Do you think arming pilots will prevent terrorist attacks? Forty-seven percent of you say yes, while just over half, 53 percent, say no. A reminder: this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have right now. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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