Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

FBI Finds Itself Under Investigation; Bush, Putin Shelve Nuclear Warheads; Interview With Donald Rumsfeld

Aired May 24, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: September 11, FBI agents pleaded in vain for permission to investigate flight student Zacarias Moussaoui, but were turned down. Now, the FBI itself is under investigation.

President Bush and Putin shelve nuclear warheads, but is that a good thing?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The terrorists, or some other group, might get their hands on some of the poorly secured warheads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Heightened tension between nuclear neighbors. The U.S. is very concerned:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Millions of people would die in the event that there was a nuclear exchange between those two countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: My interview with Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

It's Friday, May 24, 2002. Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Millions of Americans are either already on the road or in the air, or will be very shortly. But, this Memorial Day holiday weekend is different. That's because of September 11 and all the terror warnings that have been issued, including more in recent days.

AAA now estimates 35 million of us will travel at least 50 miles from home this weekend. Around four million will board planes. That's down seven percent from last year. Fewer still will be riding the rails. In fact, only three percent of those planning summer vacations plan to take the train. Most travelers will be on the road. The most popular destinations, the beach, the mountains and theme parks.

Given all the recent terrorist alerts, you might think Americans would be staying closer to home this holiday, and this summer. But, a new survey shows exactly the opposite, even as the government issues more alerts.

The Department of Transportation has alerted rail systems across the country including passenger and cargo trains, as well as commuter trains and subways about possible terrorist attacks. The so-called "threat advisory," officials say, does not rise to the level of an official warning. But, they say intelligence reports have indicated the appearance of someone considering attacks against subway systems in the United States.

They stress those reports are not specific as to what cities may be targeted, and they don't mention any dates. But, they have expanded the alert to include all transit systems, and some local rail authorities are asking travelers to report anything unusual.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every day it's something more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most frightening thing, if God forbid we would have this same sort of problem that we have overseas in Israel. If God forbid it starts here, it would be really devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't live our lives in fear and I know that's what terrorists want, they want to intimidate people and you have to just continue on with your life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: These days, potential threats are even coming from underwater. The FBI has sent out an alert to local law enforcement agencies across the U.S. about a possible threat from divers. But the FBI considers this information uncorroborated. And this alert also gives no specific information about locations or targets, where a scuba-diving terrorist might strike. All this takes place while top administration officials continue to issue alarm bells.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no doubt they wish to strike again and are working to acquire the deadliest of all weapons. Against such enemies, America and the civilized world have only one option, wherever terrorists operate, we must find them where they dwell, stop them in their planning, and one by one, bring them to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: With so many people taking to the roads, you can be sure law enforcement will be out in force, as well. The goal, to make sure you stay near the speed limit, and that your seat belt is fastened. After all, this is "National Buckle up America" week.

Joining me now is Marion Blakey, the chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board. Marion, thanks for joining us. As usual, we'll get to buckling up in a moment, but give us your perspective. This latest alert on trains, subways, commuter trains, cargo trains, what's going on? MARION BLAKEY, NTSB CHAIR: Well, you know, it's a very diffused threat at this point. It does seem to be something that in all modes of transportation right now we're going to have to be on high alert. There's no question about the fact that law enforcement is this weekend, and I think as travelers. You know we each have to a lot of responsibilities ourselves to look around.

If you're getting on a train, look and make sure there's not some unaccompanied package. If you're in the airport, do the same thing. We all need to take responsibility, and I think most Americans know that after 9/11.

BLITZER: High alert, but specifically what else does that mean we should be on high alert?

BLAKEY: Well, you know, I think it's also a question of looking at people around you. We all know that there is a certain kind of behavior that makes us nervous, there may be a good reason. We've got cell phones these days. We need to use them. I think it's that kind of pro-active, what I call real citizenship, citizenship for safety. That's what we need to all exercise.

BLITZER: But is it wise to just stay home and avoid travel around the Memorial Day holiday weekend? Americans want to go out and have a good time.

BLAKEY: And they should. After all, we need to realize that we need to have our normal lives go forward. Simply by hiding, that is not going to change the threat. And the fact of the matter is that some of the worst problems we have in safety really aren't from terrorism. They're from our own habits of behavior.

Forty-one thousand people still are dying on our highways every year and the number that aren't buckled up, I mean that's what is really is hard to believe.

BLITZER: If everyone buckled up, how many people would die?

BLAKEY: Over 9,000 people, we're going to lose this year because they're not buckled up. That's the equivalent of having a 737 go down every week. If terrorist took out a 737 every week, you know we'd take action. We need to on this because we can do it individually.

BLITZER: People have been hearing this forever and a lot of people seem to not pay much attention, why?

BLAKEY: Well, I think ...

BLITZER: Young people in particular ...

BLAKEY: Young people in particular, Wolf, and that's one of the things we want to get out there. I've been out there today with police at a number of these mobilization campaigns, where they're pulling kids over -- they're pulling anyone over who's not in a seat belt and ticketing them. And the interesting thing is kids are willing to take risk with death. They don't want to have points. They don't want to have a fine. It's very serious business, and we're finding this has a big effect on teen-agers.

BLITZER: So, if you get a ticket for not wearing a seat belt, that's a point. Points are included in most states?

BLAKEY: In the District of Columbia, it's two points and $50. Now believe me, that's getting the kids' attention around here.

BLITZER: And that's -- so your bottom line advice for people who want to go out this weekend who haven't left yet in terms of getting on planes, getting on trains, beyond buckling up, what other advice do you have?

BLAKEY: Well, you know, just be sensible and do what's smart for your family. Number one, we're all tired. It's been a long -- we're getting to the beginning of the vacation season. A lot of people are tired. Don't push it in terms of fatigue. Make sure things that are simple, like having your tires inflated if you're driving. Don't overload the car. Obviously don't drink and drive.

But, you know, let's always remember, too, that you've got to pick the best mode of transportation. Actually, flying still has the best odds in terms of fatalities and injuries of any form of transportation.

BLITZER: And just to be precise on this latest alert, it was based on uncorroborated, unspecific information but the government releases it anyhow because?

BLAKEY: We should all be on alert. I think it's simple as that and also we need to know that law enforcement security is out there working on the rails, on transit issues just like they are in aviation.

BLITZER: Marion Blakey, thanks for spending some time with us. Let's hope it's a safe weekend for everyone.

BLAKEY: Absolutely.

BLITZER: Appreciate it very much.

And for a look at how many Americans will be spending this Memorial Day weekend, please join CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley, he's "LIVE FROM THE BEACH" tonight 8:00 Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

Lawmakers investigating pre-September 11 intelligence failures are promising to look closely at a letter from an FBI whistle-blower, who blasted the bureau's headquarters for hindering efforts to learn more about a key terror suspect.

More now from CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She is Coleen Rowley, a veteran FBI agent and lawyer in the Minneapolis field office, and she socks it to her bosses in a letter. According to "TIME" magazine, Rowley writes that the FBI has created, quote, "a climate of fear which has chilled aggressive FBI law enforcement actions/decisions." She is being hailed as a hero.

SEN. BOB GRAHAM, (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: Obviously, it's a high-level of personal risk to her career to write a letter that is as explicit and as condemning of her leadership as was in that letter ...

MESERVE: Graham was among a few members of Congress who got the letter, along with FBI Director Robert Mueller. According to congressional sources, it is a detailed and devastating 13-page critique of how FBI headquarters handled the investigation of Zacarias Moussaoui and talked about it afterward. Investigators now believe that Moussaoui may have been the intended "20th" hijacker on September 11. After his arrest in August on immigration charges, FBI Minneapolis asked headquarters for permission to seek a warrant to search his computer. Headquarters said no, there wasn't enough evidence to back up the request.

According to the Associated Press, Rowley writes that when in a desperate 11th-hour measure to bypass the FBI headquarters roadblock, the Minneapolis office turned to the CIA for help. FBI headquarters personnel chastised the Minneapolis agents for making the direct notification without their approval. Earlier this month, Robert Mueller was asked about the case.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: The agent in Minneapolis did a terrific job in pushing as hard as he could, to do everything we possibly could with Moussaoui. But did we discern from that that there was a plot that would have led us to September 11? No. Could we have? I rather doubt it.

MESERVE: But in her letter, Rowley writes that FBI officials, quote, "omitted, downplayed, glossed over and/or mischaracterized" her office's investigation to minimize embarrassment. The joint congressional committee investigating September 11 has already quizzed Mueller and Rowley about the letter, and the Justice Department inspector general is considering a request from the FBI director for an investigation.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So is there a climate of fear within the FBI that keeps agents from doing their jobs? Joining me now "TIME" magazine senior correspondent, Michael Weisskopf. He wrote about this story in "TIME" Magazine, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) on a Timemagazine.com ...

MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, TIME MAGAZINE: Right.

BLITZER: ... page, the whistle-blower and the Zacarias Moussaoui case. Good piece he wrote. Michael, so is there a fear?

WEISSKOPF: There is a fear and among FBI agents in Minneapolis for instance, they were so frustrated by headquarters reluctance to grant or to at least approve a search warrant idea that at one point after 9/11 they said it appeared they were blocked by Osama bin Laden agents even within the FBI.

BLITZER: What's the fear? What causes these agents, at least prior to September 11, to have been so scared?

WEISSKOPF: The agents in Washington we've yet to hear from. The people in the field offices, particularly in Minneapolis at this point, believe this is all attributed to sort of a bureaucratic inertia, a reluctance to step forward and to make mistakes, which could be costly in terms of careers.

BLITZER: As a result, they're so cautious, they don't get the job done in this particular case. You have actually seen at least part of that letter that she wrote, the FBI agent in particular in Minnesota. Tell us about it.

WEISSKOPF: It really is quite compelling and quite emotional in many cases. She goes -- she goes point by point through the kind of roadblocks she describes in getting the permission to look at Moussaoui's computer. And she also talks a lot about the impact that this has had on her and the morale of her office and how frustrated they were and talks a little about her own personal concerns. She is the mother of four.

BLITZER: She's a single mother of four?

WEISSKOPF: Actually, she's the sole breadwinner in the family. She is married and the request -- and the fear that she has of retribution she deals with by appealing to Mr. Mueller to spare her and consider her a whistle-blower in terms of protection.

BLITZER: And specifically for our viewers who are not familiar with the whistle-blower act in the law. What does that suggest? What does that say?

WEISSKOPF: It provides a certain right for an employee who has a grievance against an employer to state the grievance without fear of firing. It provides a certain kind of immunity, employee-wise, during at least the course of the case to see whether those complaints had merits.

BLITZER: And in this particular case, I'm sure investigators on Capitol Hill, the House and Senate will be looking at it. Had they acted on her initial recommendations to the office in Minnesota to go ahead, let them check his computer, let them do some other specific investigative techniques before September 11, is it possible the government could have gotten wind if in fact he was the 20th hijacker of the September 11 plot?

WEISSKOPF: She claims that had she been able to proceed with the -- search the computer and discover Moussaoui's links to Osama bin Laden and also the efforts he was considering within his computer and if that information was shared with agents throughout the bureau so that they would be able to commingle it with information that came from Phoenix, for instance, and information the CIA was working on in terms of an attack in this country, that at the very least they may have been able to stop more people like Moussaoui who were supposedly involved in 9/11 and at least limit the loss involved, the damage to lives.

BLITZER: It's amazing how if everybody obviously were a lot smarter now than we would have been then. But connecting those dots, this is obviously another piece of information that will be at the center of this congressional House/Senate Intelligence Committee's investigation.

Thanks Michael Weisskopf, who wrote the piece at Time.com, appreciate it very much.

Presidents Bush and Putin seal an arms reduction deal, but could it shelve nuclear weapons fall into terrorist hands? An explosion turns a California apartment complex into a raging inferno -- is it a result of natural causes, or is foul play to blame?

And Chandra Levy, the mystery continues. What have the police found today?

Later, commencement time again, world leaders bestow their wisdom on new graduates. Everyone from Vice President Dick Cheney to this guy -- I'll explain. Our news quiz first.

Members of what group will meet in Washington this evening for a candlelight vigil at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial? The United States Congress? The American Civil Liberties Union? Rolling Thunder? The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force? The answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In Moscow today, a nuclear treaty on an epic scale, as Presidents Bush and Putin pledge to shelve most of their nation's warheads. More now from CNN senior White House correspondent, John King. He's traveling with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The new strategic relationship between the Russian Federation and the United States of America is being signed.

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They signed as friends, not rivals, a treaty, in a moment both leaders say opens a new strategic partnership and relegates Cold War nuclear tensions to the history books.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The treaty is setting a period of time in the rear-view mirror of both countries, and I am not only confident that this is good for world peace, I am confident that it sets the stage for incredible cooperation that we've never had before between our countries.

KING: The treaty commits the United States and Russia to slash nuclear arsenals by two-thirds from roughly 6,000 warheads to a range of 1,700 to 2,200 10 years from now. Russia wanted the excess warheads destroyed, but the treaty allows them to be kept in storage. A separate statement promises continued cooperation in the war on terrorism to share information about missile defense systems and combat the spread of missile and other weapons technology, but the friendship is strained on that point.

In their face-to-face meeting, Mr. Bush complained about Russian sales of nuclear technology and sophisticated weapons to Iran.

BUSH: And he actually gave me some assurances that I think will be very comforting for you to listen to.

KING: But Mr. Putin suggested the United States is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, PRESIDENT OF RUSSIA (through translator): According to our data, the missile programs of those countries, nuclear programs are built largely on the basis of the technologies and with the support of the western companies. We do have such info and we stand ready to share it with our American partner.

KING: Mr. Bush promised religious and community leaders he would urge Mr. Putin to adopt more press and political freedoms, but this walk outside the Kremlin was scripted to fit the summit story line. Two friends ready to resolve differences without Cold War confrontation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now, U.S. officials say they don't know whether to believe President Putin's assertions that all that Russian nuclear help to Iran goes only for civilian energy purposes. U.S. officials say they are suspicious, a contentious issue in an otherwise flourishing relationship right now. Coming away from the talks, U.S. officials have this hope. President Putin said he's open to further negotiations once Russia signs that new partnership agreement with NATO next week. Look for an immediate call for experts to get together to discuss the issue of proliferation beginning with Iran on the top of the list -- Wolf.

BLITZER: But how much leverage, John, does the Bush administration have on the government in Iran to do something about that to stop that? When I interviewed the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, he put Iran right at the top of his list of concern. Did it appear to you in Moscow that this was at the on the of the agenda in the talks between the presidents?

KING: One very close senior adviser to this president, Wolf, says this is now the single biggest issue in the relationship and in the view of the United States the single biggest proliferation issue in the world. Russian sales of nuclear technology, again, it's a reactor that the Russians say is for civilian purposes, but the United States is suspicious and other sophisticated military technology.

This is now the single biggest issue in U.S.-Russia relations, a contentious issue. What the administration is counting on is the close personal bond between these two men and in the meeting today both promised to have a -- quote -- "problem solving approach to this," but U.S. officials say that their patience is running thin. The two leaders simply disagree right now. They're hoping as Russia joins a partnership with NATO, there can be more candid discussions and some progress because they believe the influence has to come here in Moscow because the United States concedes it has no influence at all over Iran -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King with a spectacular shot of Red Square right behind, and thanks so much for joining us.

And in some quarters, the nuclear deal is actually heightening concerns. The worry, what will happen to all those Russian warheads? Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are celebrating a new treaty in Moscow, but some critics argue the deal may not make the world much safer, and could even make it less so. A newspaper cartoon sums up the concern, "what's scarier than thousands of Russian nukes aimed at us," it asks. Answer, "thousands of Russian nukes not aimed at us."

In a former superpower where nuclear materials have been known to go missing in the past, the treaty does not require the Russians, or the Americans for that matter, to destroy the weapons they will remove from missiles and bombers -- only to store them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The treaty moves the warheads from a top missiles and bombers, where they're quite secure, into storage where there's historically and notoriously less secure. There's actually an increased risk as a result of this treaty that terrorists, or some other groups, might get their hands on some of the poorly secured warheads, or fissile material stored in Russia.

ENSOR: The U.S. spends about $500 million a year to help Russia improve its security at nuclear, biological and chemical facilities. But there are hundreds of them, including many under protected facilities, according to weapons specialists. The new treaty also fails to address a smaller type of nuclear weapon that could be particularly attractive to terrorists or a rogue regime, tactical nuclear weapons, many of them large nuclear artillery shells.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States has a couple of thousand tactical nuclear weapons, but Russia has probably in excess of about 10,000. These are poorly accounted for; these are much more vulnerable to theft or sale or diversion in the future.

ENSOR: Bush administration officials respond that the treaty is not supposed to solve all problems, and that the flexibility it allows to keep nuclear weapons in storage, rather than destroy them, is important for the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be inexcusable for us to destroy all those weapons and not have them as a backup in the event they're needed.

ENSOR: Arms control advocates argue that since the Bush administration has gone for a treaty that would leave in place thousands of partially dismantled nuclear weapons in Russian storage facilities. It should now spend heavily on improving the security for those facilities, either that or risk making the world a more dangerous place, rather than a safer one.

David Ensor, CNN, the State Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And our Web question of the day is this: "Do you think terrorists will acquire nuclear weapons?" Go to my Web page, CNN.com/wolf. That's where you can vote and while you're there, let me know what you're thinking. There's a "click here" icon on the left side of the page. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/wolf.

Tensions on the high, the lives of millions hanging in the balance. What would happen if Pakistan and India had a nuclear exchange?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: It would be a perfectly terrible, terrible thing for that part of the world and indeed for the entire world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld weighs in on the conflict and more.

Are investigators any closer to discovering how Chandra Levy died?

And an illness that often goes untreated. Why so many doctors fail to diagnose depression, especially among older people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Checking our news alert at the half hour. An apartment complex in Encino, California turned into an inferno today after what residents described as a loud explosion. At least three people were taken to the hospital including one man with serious burns. The FBI says there's no sign of terrorism, but has assigned special agents to the investigation.

A helicopter rescue crew picked up a snowboarder stranded on a glacier at the top of Mount Hood in Oregon. The man was lying unconscious with the snowboard still attached to his feet. He was on top of the summit last night with a group of friends. They were climbing the mountain. They say he went off the glacier around midnight and planned to snowboard it. CNN crews on the scene say the shelling continues by both Pakistan and India across the so-called line of control. That's what divides Kashmir, the disputed region between the two nuclear-armed neighbors. Pakistani officials say they've asked the United Nations to help diffuse the situation.

It's a very delicate situation. The Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is indeed keeping an eye on it as well. Today he said there's no question India and Pakistan could wage a nuclear war adding -- quote -- "it would not be pretty".

Yesterday he and I talked about the growing tension there and the effect on the war on terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: How concerned are you that the Pakistani government and President Musharraf might move troops from the Afghan border towards Kashmir, where as you know there is a serious confrontation brewing between the Indians and the Pakistanis, complicated by the fact that both are nuclear powers right now?

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We are concerned. We could be getting a lot more help from the Pakistanis if there were not the tense situation with respect to the two countries. They have forces along the Indian border that we could use along the Afghan border, and it's unfortunate and it -- a very porous border is allowed to -- it really permits people -- to al Qaeda and Taliban -- to move across. That's unhelpful to us.

BLITZER: Is there a possibility that India and Pakistan could (A) go to war against each other, but (B) use nuclear weapons?

RUMSFELD: Well, you know, things happen from time to time where they escalate and get out of hand. And when you have two countries that have nuclear weapons, one has to be very respectful of the risk and the danger that exists for the people in that country, for the region and the world. And that's why President Bush and Vice President Cheney and Secretary Powell and I and others in the national security process have been working with both the Indians and the Pakistanis to try to see that each takes steps to reduce that tension.

Millions of people would die in the event there were -- was a nuclear exchange between those two countries. Water supplies would be damaged. Agriculture would be damaged. Their economies would both go into the tank. Neighboring countries would be adversely effected. We have troops, hundreds of troops in Pakistan, as you know.

BLITZER: And Afghanistan.

RUMSFELD: And Afghanistan. And of course, depending on which way wind was blowing and what kind of bursts were used with a nuclear exchange, it would be a perfectly terrible, terrible thing for that part of the world, indeed for the entire world.

BLITZER: Before I let you go, the Crusader, this new weapon that potentially would have created enormous number of jobs, billions of dollars it would have cost, you've canceled, causing heartburn among some members of Congress, especially those whose districts were effected by this decision.

What they are specifically concerned about, at least they say, is the way it was sprung upon them without any advance word. Even good Republicans like Congressman J.C. Watts of Oklahoma and others -- what do you say to them when they complain about this?

RUMSFELD: When I came in -- in my confirmation hearings talked to the senate committee about my interest in transforming our military, I think it is urgent, it is important that we see that this country is arranged to be able to contribute to peace and stability in the period ahead.

Each of the services has aspirations for various types of weapons. It's the job of the secretary of defense and the president to make judgments as to how a CINC can best fight, it can -- combatant commander can best fight the war...

BLITZER: CINC is commander-in-chief.

RUMSFELD: And they have to be able to fight jointly, and they are not interested in whether it is an army or a navy or an air force weapon. They are interesting in seeing that they have the firepower to deal with the target.

And the American people understand this. They get up in the morning and they know that they have got to make a choice. They have got only so much money. They either are going to send a child to college or they are going to buy a car or they are going to fix up the kitchen, and they make choices.

I'm here to help make those tough decisions on behalf of the American people so that this country is going to be -- have the right kind of equipment and will have the best trained and the best equipped men and women in uniform in the decade ahead. I'd much prefer to go up and say to everybody, "Here, we'll do everything you want."

BLITZER: Here is some more money.

RUMSFELD: Yes. But that's not the way the world works.

BLITZER: Wait until you have to start closing some more bases around the...

RUMSFELD: We're going to do that too.

BLITZER: Want to give us a few names?

RUMSFELD: Oh, come on. It's a process that we'll go through and we'll save the taxpayers billions of dollars over time.

BLITZER: I'm sure you will. Mr. Secretary, as usual, thank you.

RUMSFELD: Thank you. (END VIDEOTAPE)

And in Afghanistan coalition forces are assessing the results of a special operations raid which targeted a suspected Taliban compound near Kandahar. CNN's Lisa Rose Weaver is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA ROSE WEAVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More than 24 hours ago now some 150 coalition forces, including some special forces, raided a compound west of Kandahar, soldiers reporting that they were fired upon first and in returning the fire killed one person.

There were no deaths or injuries among the coalition soldiers. Now, no precise location was given as to exactly where this compound was. However, it was suspected of possibly harboring members of the Taliban leadership or members of the al Qaeda network.

Coalition spokesmen here saying that they had been gathering intelligence on the compound prior to the raid.

MAJ. A.C. ROPER: This mission demonstrates the coalition's resolve to root out terrorists here and help set the condition that allow the Afghans to help themselves.

WEAVER: Some 50 people have been taken in for questioning. We have no details about exactly where those interrogations are going on. Spokesmen also saying that they have taken some items of intelligence value. We are told officials are looking at those items now to get clues about exactly who they captured and how high up in the Taliban or al Qaeda leadership they may be.

Lisa Rose Weaver, CNN, Kandahar Air Base.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Searching for clues in the Chandra Levy mystery, police revisit the Washington park where the intern may have gone jogging. Are there -- are they any closer to a suspect?

And later, battling depression, Kitty Dukakis with a first-hand account of life with the illness.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Washington police today acknowledged they did not search the specific spot last year in a park where Chandra Levy's remains were found. The area is now the focus of an intense hunt for clues to try to find out when and how the former intern died. CNN's Jason Carroll has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Investigators continue to focus their attention on the area of Rock Creek Park where Chandra Levy's skeletal remains were found on Wednesday by a man out walking his dog. It is a section of the park police missed when they searched for Levy more than a year ago. At 1800 acres the park is so large, and so dense in some parts, police say searching it all would have been virtually impossible. Mapping out the small area where Levy's remains were found will be an easier task.

SGT. SCOTT FEAR, U.S. PARK POLICE: The U.S. Park Police is assisting the metropolitan police with the total station -- that's a mechanism where it helps diagram -- give a computer diagram of the area up there, the crime scene. It gives distances and measurements usually used on, like a fatality accident, for skid marks and impact, places like that. But it can also be used on crime scenes to determine the distance of where evidence was found.

CARROLL: Police will also be reinterviewing this man, Ingmar Guandique. He is already serving a ten-year sentence for assaulting two women in the park in the same area where Levy was found. But investigators caution against drawing any early conclusions.

ASST. CHIEF TERRY GAINER: The only real link is the fact that he was convicted of crimes in the park. We were aware of him, aware of the circumstances, monitored his conviction, and actually talked to him before. But now that we know where Chandra was found, where she laid for some apparent 12 months, we will go back and look at him and others.

CAROLL (on camera): D.C. police will be working with anthropologists, botanists and other forensic experts, and they say there is the possibility they will be able to gather potential DNA evidence from Levy's sweatshirt and her other clothes recovered here at the crime scene.

(voice-over): The medical examiner has not ruled the former intern's death a homicide. It seems likely now it is not a matter of if that will happen, but when.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Silently suffering, a startling number of adults deal with some form of depression every day.

Ahead we'll hear from Kitty Dukakis on her incredible personal struggle with the illness. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This week an independent panel of medical experts commissioned by the government issued guidelines for doctors on screening patients for depression.

In doing its research the panel came up with some startling findings.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): Doctors miss about half the cases of depression among adult patients they see. That's the conclusion of the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force which is now urging primary care physicians to screen all of their adult patients for depression.

The panel says doctors should ask patients two basic questions. Over the past two weeks, have you felt down, depressed or hopeless? And, over the past two weeks, have you felt little interest or pleasure in doing things?

If the answer to either question is yes, the panel says doctors should ask more questions and possibly follow up with treatment. One of the main reasons for concern is that depression is surprisingly high among adults in the United States.

DR. CHARLES RAISON, PSYCHIATRIST: The best estimates are that about 18 percent of Americans will have major depression at some point in their lifetime. Women it's actually more like one in four, 25 percent. Then if you consider the fact that many more people will have milder forms of depression, which are still associated with a lot of medical problems and psychiatric and psychological problems, it is a huge burden.

BLITZER: Many primary care doctors say they routinely treat depression by asking patients about sleeplessness, fatigue and stress. Some doctors say they often don't have time to do a formal screening, relying instead on their intuition. But some experts say the extra time is well worth it.

RAISON: In fact a couple of quick questions and a higher suspicion for major depression given how very common it is, I think will save both doctors and patients not only a lot of time and trouble and financial resources, but most especially it will really help with what is just a huge source of suffering.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: One of the millions of Americans with first-hand knowledge of what it is like to suffer from depression is Kitty Dukakis. This week I sat down with the wife of the one-time Democratic presidential candidate to talk about how she copes with the illness.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Kitty Dukakis, thanks, as usual, for joining us. This is such an important subject, depression. First of all, give us your personal story, briefly what you went through.

KITTY DUKAKIS, FORMER ELECTRO-CONVULSIVE THERAPY PATIENT: Well, about 20 years ago I got help for stopping amphetamines, diet pills, which I had been taking for many years. And right after that, I began a yearly depression that lasted for two decades. And the depression didn't -- but I would have a four-month depression every year.

At the beginning, it came in the fall and then it started in other times, during other times of the year. So it wasn't a seasonal effective disorder, it was other times of the year. And it was oftentimes a trigger for me to drink. I would be fine for the other eight months and then the depression would just start. Nothing causal, there was nothing related to an event in my life. It just happened. A real chemical depression.

BLITZER: And as far as the treatment, I know there has been a lot of reports, what they used to call shock therapy, now they call it electro-convulsive therapy. That worked, ECT. It was a miracle, wasn't it?

DUKAKIS: It was indeed a miracle for me. I started, as a matter of fact, on Michael's and my anniversary in June of last year, and I had told him before I had the first treatment that I wasn't sure I could go out -- we could go out that night to celebrate. And indeed, I was fine to go out and celebrate. We had a wonderful evening together.

I had to have a second ECT series in February of this past year, just several months ago. And I had in both cases, six series -- six times that I went into the hospital, each time. And what happens is you are given a shot. It has a relaxant in it. You fall asleep, you do not feel anything. And you wake up within about a half hour. Some people have nausea or a headache. I only had a headache once during the 12 series that I had.

And the depressions are gone. I recently heard from somebody who is an ECT nurse with the elderly that it has been a miracle for people in their 90s.

BLITZER: So give us your recommendations, because you lived through this depression. Our viewers out there, a lot of people out there, younger people, older people, what is the most important thing they should be looking for?

DUKAKIS: Well, I think other things should be tried. I think many times people need to try anti-depressants and talk therapy. I think both of these things can be helpful for certain kinds of depression. And to a certain extent, I think they certainly prevented me from getting worse. But they didn't do the trick. And I needed something more dramatic, more serious.

For a couple of years, the doctors at Mass General had talked to me about this and I had kind of put it off because of the stigma attached to shock, to ECT, which is what we call it today. And when I had the first treatment, it was just, you know, almost immediate that I began to feel better.

BLITZER: I'm sure it doesn't work that well for everyone. But in your case it obviously did help you.

DUKAKIS: Well, it did. One has a positive outlook on life. The effect is positive when -- it is so negative when you are feeling truly clinically depressed. And most of the people who are considered candidates for this kind of treatment are helped. A huge percentage are helped. BLITZER: I'm happy that you seem to be doing so much better. We always love having you on your program. Thanks for having the courage to speak out about a subject that does have a stigma attached to it but is so critically important that people address head-on as you obviously have. Kitty Dukakis, thanks so much for joining us.

DUKAKIS: Thank you, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A time of new beginnings for many young adults. Hats off to the graduates. A look at special commencement moments when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked: "Members of what group will meet in Washington this evening to attend a candlelight vigil at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial?"

More than 250,000 motorcycle riding members of Rolling Thunder begin arriving at the nation's capital today for the annual Memorial Day rally to honor the country's veterans, especially those still missing in Vietnam.

Vice president Dick Cheney had a somber message today for the class of 2002 at the U.S. Naval Academy at Annapolis in Maryland. Delivering the commencement address, Cheney said there is no doubt terrorists want to strike the country again, and welcomed the class to be -- to what he said would be a long-lasting war. At the same time, the ceremony also had some lighter moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now the only thing standing between you and your diploma is a commencement speech. So I'll keep it short. If I do a good job, maybe all the plebes will come down on the field and give us 50 push-ups.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I too had some lighter moments yesterday when I addressed the graduates at my alma mater, the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I remember how relieved I was when I learned that I had passed my final exams. I remember how relieved I was when I was told I passed my oral exams, and how happy I was when I learned I would indeed receive a Master's Degree from this distinguished university.

And this is the truth, and I remember it as if it were only yesterday, walking -- I remember walking afterwards back to my apartment near Dupont Circle, and I was walking around Dupont Circle feeling oh so high, and especially in those days, in 1972, I can assure you...

(LAUGHTER)

I was the only person walking around Dupont Circle feeling naturally high.

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

On a more serious note, I did speak about the news media and our world since September 11, and if you would like my entire address, I put it on my Web page, cnn.com/wolf.

Let's go to New York now and get a little preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" which begins right at the top of the hour. Jan Hopkins, no relation to Johns Hopkins, is sitting in for Lou tonight.

JAN HOPKINS, GUEST HOST, LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE: That's right. Thanks, Wolf. Coming up on "MONEYLINE," a new era on U.S./Russian relations. The two countries agreed to drastically reduce their nuclear arsenals. We'll go live to Moscow.

Americans head to holiday destinations by land, sea and air. We will tell you how the threat of terrorism is affecting the travel industry.

Stocks capped off a losing week on Wall Street. Stocks tumbling across the board. Our Wall Street panel will talk about what to expect in the weeks ahead. All of that and a lot more at the top of the hour. Please join us. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jan. And you have two minutes to give us your opinion: "Do you think terrorists will acquire nuclear weapons?"

Ahead, we will have the results of our Web question. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now for the result of our Web question of the day. Earlier we asked: "Do you think terrorists will acquire nuclear weapons?"

Eighty-four percent of you say yes, 16 percent say no.

Remember, this is not a scientific poll. That's all the time we have today. I will see you Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word on Sunday. Among my guests, Secretary of State Colin Powell. That's Sunday at noon Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. Have a wonderful holiday weekend. Drive safely. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com