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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Suicide Bomber Strikes on Israeli Bus; Utah Police Release Suspect Description in Missing Girl Case

Aired June 18, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To face this and to live with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Is the president's vision of Middle East peace now just a mirage?

Missing girl mystery, soft-spoken, polite and calm, police paint a picture of the suspect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: We believe that this person may be a trusted person in the neighborhood or in the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A kid's channel caught up in controversy. A Nickelodeon show on gay parents comes under attack. I'll ask televangelist Jerry Falwell why, and we'll hear from the host of the show, Linda Ellerbee.

Wrestled from the jaws of death, a Florida girl is saved from an alligator by her father. I'll speak with the victim and the hero.

It's Tuesday, June 18, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

A horrific suicide bombing once again shatters lives. Has it also shattered fresh U.S. hopes for peace? The latest Middle East violence leaves President Bush caught in the middle. It comes just as he was set to announce his proposal for a Palestinian state and a stepped-up U.S. peace effort in the Middle East.

The bomber eluded a security sweep, blowing himself up on a Jerusalem city bus packed with commuters and students. Nineteen people were killed, more than 50 wounded. At this hour, Israeli tanks are on the move in the West Bank town of Jenin, a possible response to the attack.

For more on the bombing, its grim aftermath, and its implications, here's CNN senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar in Jerusalem.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Death came with the morning rush hour. The number 32-A bus was making its way into Jerusalem. On board, workers heading for their jobs and children heading to school. Waiting with deadly intent at a bus stop, the suicide bomber.

Michael Lavsi (ph) was on the bus as the terrorist got boarded. "I realized what he was going to do," he says. "I managed to crouch down and the bus exploded."

Jerusalem had been on high alert for nearly 24 hours. Israeli police said they had specific intelligence a suicide bomber had entered the city. In spite of roadblocks and searches, they were not able to catch him in time. Once again, Israelis were dealing with terror, and rescue workers had the grim task of collecting the dead.

The bus driver, dead in his seat, a body lying on the steps of the bus. Through the morning, the toll mounting, the row of body bags growing longer.

(on camera): This comes as both Israelis and Palestinians wait for U.S. President Bush's statement on his views of the way forward toward a political dialogue. And the view of Israel's government is that it will not now accept the creation of any form of Palestinian state.

(voice-over): With the U.S. administration's deliberations in mind, Israel's prime minister paid an unusual visit to the scene. Somber, sorrowed, Ariel Sharon walked solemnly past the dead. This was, he said, a terrible scene, stronger than words.

ARIEL SHARON, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): What Palestinian state are they intending? What Palestinian state are they talking about? It is this terrorism which we have to fight, and that is what we shall do.

UZI LANDAU, ISRAELI MINISTER: What must be clear that there is no Palestinian state. There is no negotiating with Arafat. There is no trying to reach a compromise with all those terrorist organizations.

MACVICAR: From Gaza, the spiritual leader of Hamas confirmed this bomber had been launched by that organization. The Palestinian Authority condemned the attack, but said control of the bombers was beyond its current capabilities, and made a plea for renewed dialogue.

GHASSAN KHATIB, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY LABOR MINISTER: The only security is for everybody can guarantee an end to the violence.

MACVICAR: As one more horrifying reality sinks in, everyone -- Israelis and Palestinians -- wait to see what happens next.

Sheila MacVicar, CNN Jerusalem. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In its claim of responsibility, the militant Islamic group, Hamas, said the assailant was a 22-year old graduate student from the West Bank refugee camp. Mohammed al-Ghoul (ph) left behind a videotape and a farewell note, saying he tried twice before to carry out attacks. This time, he wrote, "I hope I will be able to do it." "How beautiful it is," he added, "to make my bomb shrapnel kill the enemy."

As we've noted, the suicide bombing comes just as President Bush readies a proposal to restart Middle East peace efforts. CNN senior White House correspondent John King has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president's central goal is to get the Israelis and Palestinians back to the bargaining table, now to present the detailed new U.S. peace plan. But Mr. Bush does hope to offer a road map beginning with demands for Palestinian Authority reforms. Mr. Bush wants a new Palestinian constitution, new leadership positions, and improved security forces.

But selling those reforms could be complicated by tough talk from senior White House officials who make clear they would prefer Yasser Arafat have no role in day-to-day decision-making.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very often when it seems as if the intent of the U.S. is to remove a leader, the people rally behind him even if he's unpopular. I think we've seen that in the past including in the case of Mr. Arafat.

KING: Mr. Bush also will call for an international Middle East conference this summer, with the goal of narrowing differences between Israel and Arab states, a resumption of direct Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, and an easing of Israeli economic restrictions on the Palestinians. One controversial idea is recognizing an interim or provisional Palestinian state that would consist of West Bank and Gaza strip land now under Palestinian control.

The borders of a permanent state and competing claims on Jerusalem would be left to direct negotiations. Vice President Cheney has said by knowledgeable sources to be skeptical of recognizing an interim Palestinian state before seeing proof of Palestinian reforms. And several top officials say the idea, while still on the table, appears to be losing appeal. Another deadly bombing only reinforced Israel's view that this is no time for peace talks and no time to discuss Palestinian statehood, interim or otherwise.

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: What possible motivation will the terrorists have to seize his murderous activities if he feels he's getting concessions. That's why we say firmly stop the terrorism and then we return to a political process, which has to go hand in hand, with fundamental reforms in the Palestinian Authority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING (on camera): The White House condemned the bombing is the work of those who oppose peace and says it will not impact the president's deliberations. But privately senior officials say the bombing could impact the timing of the president's initiative as White House officials wait to see if Israel's response to this latest attack makes it impossible for the president to try to focus the parties, on peace -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And, John, I just want to clarify to our viewers that first sound byte in your package was from Shilbey Telhami. He's a University of Maryland professor of Middle East studies. Mark Regev, the Israeli press spokesman, was the second sound byte.

But when you say could it change the timing, a lot of speculation that the president would be making the speech perhaps as early as tomorrow. Is that still potentially a live option?

KING: It is possible, but according to two senior officials I've spoken to in the past several hours not likely. They say the president is still going over the plan. They say he has not even made all of the final decisions, and we are hearing he may have a meeting of his top national security team tomorrow, to discuss not only the plan, and some of the details, but then how to roll it out.

What the administration wants to do to make its case and officials here say that nothing, no violence will impact what the president puts in the plan, but certainly, Wolf, the president does not want to be urging the parties to get ultimately back to the bargaining table at a time you see 19 killed in a deadly bombing and now, at least the beginning of an Israeli military response.

BLITZER: And, John, take us behind the scenes how much of a debate is there within the administration between various camps, how far the president should go in announcing support for a provisional or interim Palestinian state?

KING: Well at one point, that idea had the favor of Secretary of State Colin Powell. Some sources tell us that even he now, as you -- as he has received other advice from people who do not think it is workable is rethinking it. We are told Secretary Powell believes you must have a bold new diplomatic initiative to shake up the dynamics, if you will, to get the parties talking again.

It is no secret that Vice President Cheney, the Defense Secretary Don Rumsfeld over the weekend, Condoleezza Rice more tough language about Yasser Arafat. Those officials are much more skeptical. They want to see Palestinians reforms first. The sequencing of all this, it is a word we use. It is fancy and diplomatic in terms for timing, would have a great deal of effect. The Israelis say yes they'll have peace talks, but not until they see a post Arafat Palestinian Authority. So as the president considers these ideas, he has the debate among the Palestinians and the Israelis and the debate among some of his own advisers.

BLITZER: John King at the White House, we'll be watching the next few days. Thank you very much.

And turning now to news from the front in the war against terror. Pakistan has deported to the United States an American who was detained after crossing the border from Afghanistan. The State Department says a second American remains in Pakistani custody. But while an investigation continues, U.S. sources insist the men were not connected to terrorist activities.

Saudi authorities have arrested more than a dozen people linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. Several are tied to a failed attempt to shoot down a U.S. military jet with a shoulder-fired missile. Sources say the individuals, arrested over several months, were plotting other missile and bomb attacks.

And a German citizen of Syrian origin who may have recruited the key September 11th hijacker Mohammed Atta is now in Syrian hands. Sources say Mohammed Hyders Marr (ph) is talking and the United States is receiving information from the Syrians about what he's telling them.

Turning now to the missing girl mystery here in the United States, there's a new twist today in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping investigation. CNN's Michael Okwu is standing by in Salt Lake City, Utah with the latest -- Michael.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a new twist indeed. We were all thrown for a little bit of a loop this morning as the investigation here continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Day 14, a twist. More details about the suspect, and a revised version about what happened at the Smart home during the dark early hours on June 5th. Police say they are looking for a white male, 30 to 40 years old, between 5'8" and 5'10", a man of medium build with dark hair on his head as well as his arms and hands.

This does not necessarily match the description of Bret Michael Edmunds, who police have been saying all along is not a suspect. Investigators received this information from at least three interviews with Elizabeth's nine-year old sister and roommate Mary Catherine, who described a well-dressed, soft-spoken man.

CAPT. SCOTT ATKINSON, SALT LAKE CITY POLICE: This person appeared to be calm, but was concerned that the victim not make any noise that would awaken other family members including the younger sister whom the suspect assumed was asleep. No conversations were made between the younger sister and the suspect at any time. The suspect did not know he was observed by this child.

OKWU: Police say he was witnessed at two different times in two different locations in the house that night. Until now, the public had been led to believe Mary Catherine had been threatened by the armed suspect, which would have explained why she waited two hours before she told her parents. TOM SMART, ELIZABETH'S UNCLE: We stand 100 percent behind the police, the FBI, the volunteer effort. We stand 100 percent behind them. Have we been frustrated at times? You bet we've been frustrated, because nobody has a sense of urgency, and nobody wants this to be focused on Elizabeth more than us.

OKWU: Police also displayed a pair of white shoes resembling those worn by Elizabeth the morning she was abducted.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): Now police believe that their suspect may be a trusted person, in fact, someone who may even be familiar with the Smart family and one other thing, Wolf, when asked whether Mary Catherine was hypnotized, a law enforcement official told us it's safe to believe we've done everything -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Michael, a lot of confusing information as you and our viewers obviously well know by now, but one of the things the police did seek to clarify is that the individual sought for questioning, Bret Edmunds, he is really not a suspect at all in the actual kidnapping. Did they -- didn't they make that clear today?

OKWU: You know in fact, the captain that you heard from in our little piece there, made that very clear at the very onset of the briefing this morning. He said there's been a lot of talk about Mr. Edmunds and his photograph has been shown all across the country through so many media outlets, but they make the point that this man is not a suspect. They cannot connect him to this particular crime at this point.

They only believe that he might have been in the area and might have information that could lead them to the suspect. Now, they have made it clear all along that they're looking at everybody, so whether his situation changes, and he becomes a suspect later, well we'll just have to wait and see -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Michael Okwu on the scene for us once again. Thank you very much. And updating you now on those wildfires that are scorching the West first to Colorado, where the state's largest ever fire is taking a turn for the worse. Erratic winds and high temperatures are fueling the flames of the so-called Hayman fire near Denver. And a fire in the San Bernardino area of California is only about 15 percent contained. Three firefighters were hurt yesterday battling that fire.

Federal aviation investigators in northern California, where an air tanker crashed while fighting a fire just across the Nevada border. Planes like it are not flying today. For more let's bring in Kerrie Cassani. She's with our Reno affiliate KTVN. She has the latest developments -- Kerrie.

KERRIE CASSANI, KTVN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon Wolf. We want to tell you that the winds here are still continuing to blow, and it's causing for some problems. Just behind me in the canyon, this is called the canyon fire for a very good reason. All that smoke is where the fire is burning. There are some choppers in the sky, and in fact there are some planes in the sky, but not the C-130s. That's the same type of plane that crashed yesterday.

Let's take a look at that video as the plane was headed straight towards the ground. It had been doing some drops right near the center of town when all of a sudden both wings broke off, and that plane crashed into a field, starting a fire, and causing a lot of stress as people ran to the scene.

All we know at this point are the names of the people on board. They were Steven Ray Wass, he's 49 from Gardnerville; Craig Labare, 36, from Loomis, California; and Michael Davis, he's 59 from Bakersfield, California. There will be a press conference in about two hours to find out the latest on the investigation by the NTSB. They have been here all afternoon. The road is blocked, and that's where they're doing an investigation right now.

BLITZER: Kerrie Cassani of our affiliate KTVN reporting live. Thank you very much for us for that report. And a brave father is being hailed for rescuing his 10-year old daughter from the jaws of an alligator. We'll speak to the family live, just ahead.

Robert Blake stands accused of murder and has just gone before a judge. We'll have a live report on the actor's day in court.

And controversy over a TV show on gay parents airing on, of all places, Nickelodeon. Is it acceptable family viewing? The host of the program, Linda Ellerbee, and a critic, the Reverend Jerry Falwell will join me live. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Actor Robert Blake accused of killing his wife was back in court today hoping to be freed on bail. For that let's go to CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley. He's just outside the courthouse, in Los Angeles -- Frank.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the court hearing just wrapped up, and Robert Blake neither got bail nor didn't get bail. Judge Lloyd Nash putting off until June 27th the discussion of bail. He said that the motions on the issue he was receiving right up until five minutes before this hearing began, he hadn't had a chance to read through all of the briefs, going back and forth between the defense and the prosecution. So he wanted to put that off for a few days. Also the setting of the preliminary hearing date, which was expected today, also being put off until that day. So that will take place on June 27th at 1:30 p.m.

One other matter and that is the matter of Earle Caldwell, who is Robert Blake's bodyguard, the co-defendant in this case. Earle Caldwell had been advised in the past of a potential conflict of interest because his attorney is being paid for by Robert Blake. An independent counsel, Steve Sitkof (ph), was asked to go talk to Earle Caldwell about this. He reported back to the judge, and said that he felt confident that Caldwell understood the potential of conflict of interest.

Mr. Caldwell was asked about it in court, and he waived any issues of conflict of interest down the line. So Arness Locknet (ph), his current attorney will stay on as his attorney of record -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Frank Buckley in Los Angeles with that update. Thank you very much.

And in news from our "Justice Files", a couple accused of kidnapping 22 years ago a baby they wanted to adopt will be going to prison, but only for a relatively short period. In a plea bargain, Barry Smiley will have to spend between two and six years behind bars; his wife Judith, six months. If convicted, both could have faced up to 25 years in prison.

A Wisconsin man who wrote Dear Abby for help in dealing with his sexual fantasies, instead found himself in court today. Paul Weiser pleaded guilty to three counts of possessing child pornography in exchange for eight years probation. Weiser was arrested in March after Jeanne Phillips, who writes the "Dear Abby" column, contacted police about his letter. Jeanne Phillips will be Larry King's guest, by the way, tomorrow night.

And in Orlando, Florida a 10-year old girl is safe thanks to quick action by her day. Megan Roe was swimming in a river this weekend when she was attacked by an alligator. Today she's able to talk about it, along with her father, her mother, and her brother. Thanks to all of you for joining us. Let me just begin with you, Megan. First of all, tell us how you're doing.

MEGAN ROE, ATTACKED BY ALLIGATOR: I'm doing fine.

BLITZER: How do you feel right now?

M. ROE: Fine, it doesn't hurt.

BLITZER: It doesn't hurt. Tell us where the alligator actually attacked you.

M. ROE: In my thigh.

BLITZER: And what happened once that occurred? What was -- what was immediately on your mind when you were being attacked by an alligator? Megan, go ahead. Well maybe Megan's ...

M. ROE: I was scared.

BLITZER: You were scared. Obviously you were scared. Let's ask your dad, Earl, you got on the scene. You did some heroic deeds to save your daughter. Begin the process, tell us what happened once you saw that an alligator had attacked your little girl.

EARL ROE, MEGAN'S FATHER: Well, you know I immediately, you know, without hesitation, ran out and grabbed her, and you know started a tug of -- tug-of-war with the alligator. You know, this back and forth for, you know, about 10 minutes, trying to get her up to the bank, and get up to where I could, you know, do something about the alligator, and then once we got up in shallower water, you know then I was faced with the dilemma like well what am I going to do now to get him to turn loose of her leg because he had such a tight grip on her.

BLITZER: And that whole time for 10 minutes, the alligator had your daughter's thigh in his -- right in the alligator's mouth?

E. ROE: Yes. Yes. I drug her the and alligator up to -- into shallower water, you know it was, you know back and forth like I said for a while, and I was losing ground with him, and you know I finally turned around to my son, and held my hand out, and, told him I'm like Eric (ph), you're going to have to help me pull because he's overpowering me and Megan and it wasn't until he helped me pull that I was able to get my feet sunk into the sand and able to pull her and the gator still attached up on the bank, where I could then, you know, proceed to stick my finger in his eye, and you know that's what made him cut loose of her.

BLITZER: So did you know that that was the standard procedure, to try to fight an alligator, to stick your fingers right in the alligator's eyes?

E. ROE: No sir I did not, but it was the only thing I thought logical because his head's like a rock. I proceeded to punch him in the head but, like I said, his head was like a rock, so next thing I thought of was sticking a finger down his eye and that did the trick.

BLITZER: And when -- and when you did finally hit the alligator directly in the eye, did he open up his mouth and let your -- let your girl go?

E. ROE: Yes. Yes, sir.

BLITZER: How long did that take?

BLITZER: You mean for him to let go?

BLITZER: Right.

E. ROE: It was almost ...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... after you hit the eye.

E. ROE: ... instantaneous -- yes it was almost instantaneous.

BLITZER: And you had a good partner there, your son Eric who helped -- who helped obviously with this heroic effort on your part. I think you did what most dads would do for their little girl. What's the -- what's the prognosis now? Let's ask your wife, Melyssa, how much longer is your daughter going to have to be in the hospital and what kind of work will the doctors have to do on her?

MELYSSA ROE, MEGAN'S MOTHER: She'll be here until Friday we think. Other than that, we'll just wait and see.

BLITZER: And everything's going to be back to normal? She's going to be just fine Melyssa? MELYSSA ROE: Yes.

BLITZER: Thank God for that. I want to thank all of the Roe family for joining us, a positive story, a dad and a brother come to the rescue of a young little girl, Megan Roe, 10 years old. Congratulations to all you. Good luck down the road.

E. ROE: Thank you.

BLITZER: And there are two other stories of survival in the news. The first is from Atlanta where a woman died in an apartment in this house -- we'll put it up on the screen and her young daughter survived at least five days on her own. Police found the 22-month-old girl standing near her mother's body. She apparently managed to find some food in the pantry. The little girl's name, appropriately enough, get this, is and we're not making this up. Her name is Miracle.

Should a network devoted to children's programming air a show on same-sex parents? A discussion between Linda Ellerbee, the host of this new program on Nickelodeon, and the Reverend Jerry Falwell. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Looking at our top stories, someone fired two rockets in an apartment complex near the U.S. embassy in Kabul, Afghanistan. Damage was minor and there are no reports of casualties. Authorities suspect al Qaeda or Taliban holdouts.

A federal judge says the government can send bomb-grade plutonium to South Carolina, whether the government -- the governor there likes it or not. South Carolina Governor Jim Hodges had been trying to block radioactive shipments to the Savannah River site, but says he'll abide by today's order.

And an earthquake hit southern Indiana during the lunch hour today, but there are no reports of injuries or damage. Measured at a magnitude of 5.0, the quake was centered nine miles northwest of Evansville. It was felt as far away as Memphis and Nashville in Tennessee.

The children's cable television network, Nickelodeon, isn't known for controversial programming. But a special show that will air tonight is generating a surge of protests. It's called "Nick News Special Edition: My Family is Different." And critics say it's an attempt to promote homosexuality to children.

Both Rosie O'Donnell and the Reverend Jerry Falwell will appear on the program. Here's a brief excerpt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSIE O'DONNELL, TALK SHOW HOST: The more we talk about it, I think, the more we'll be able to understand each person's worth and value and their individuality. REV. JERRY FALWELL, CHANCELLOR, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY: I don't think that gays and lesbians should be in any way harassed or robbed of their civil rights as any other American. We don't have to approve their lifestyle; as Christians, we cannot. But we cannot disapprove them. We love them. We care for them. We communicate with them. And we show them the same love and respect that we would expect to be shown to us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Reverend Jerry Falwell has joined us to discuss the program, along with program host Linda Ellerbee. She's in New York, he's in Lynchburg, Virginia.

Thanks to both of you for joining us on this important subject.

And the Reverend Falwell, what's wrong with airing a discussion of this issue for a children's network? Why not bring it out in the open, since there are many same-sex parents out there with loving children?

FALWELL: Wolf, I think Nickelodeon is rather a sanctified place. Our children, towards their -- into their growing-up times and all of our eight grandchildren enjoy and watch Nickelodeon regularly.

And I think that it should be maintained for entertainment, for fun, for something that parents and grandparents can, with no concern, put their children unsupervised before a television set to watch.

I think that this program -- and Linda was kind enough to allow me to share my views on it. And I understand that. But there's Rosie, who's probably the best known role model for same-sex marriage and for the gay and lesbian agenda in the world today, talking with the children.

And the impression is, although nobody is going to say that -- and I haven't seen the program, so I don't want to prejudge -- but though no one is going to say it, I think the end of the show will be that a message goes out, gay is OK. And there are millions who don't believe gay is OK.

BLITZER: What about those criticisms, Linda?

LINDA ELLERBEE, HOST, "MY FAMILY IS DIFFERENT": Well, first of all, I'm very glad that the Reverend Falwell was on the show. I believe he stands for love over hate. And I agree with that. And I feel what he said on our show was heartfelt and came from his heart.

Nickelodeon is a fun place for kids. It truly is. And he's right about that. But for 11 years, Nick News has produced shows about the tough issues in the world. And we have managed to take on topics like AIDS without talking about sex. We've talked about the issues of tolerance. We have managed, as well, to take on child molestation. We took on the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal without talking about sex, and yet we were able to talk about the issues. So the fact that our show has been on for 11 years, I don't think kids come to Nick News thinking that they're going to see a fun show about how Crayons are made. It's about the tough issues. And...

BLITZER: Another point the Reverend Falwell -- excuse me, Linda, for interrupting -- The other point that they make is this is going to air at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, when a lot of little kids -- really little kids are obviously, supposedly sound asleep?

FALWELL: Is it 9:00 or 8:00, Linda?

ELLERBEE: Well, it's 9:00 Eastern, yes. We moved it, Dr. Falwell, because we did not want younger children just stumbling onto its regular time slot on a Sunday night.

FALWELL: I thank you for doing that. I didn't realize that.

But at the same time, I think that if you were to have, for example, on Nickelodeon, a program featuring American evangelicalism, and Jerry Falwell hosted it, no matter how hard I tried and all the guests on the program tried, at the end of the half hour, I can rest assured that most people would say, this was not a fair shot. Evangelicalism got a big plus out of this. And there would be screaming people everywhere, and understandably so.

On Nickelodeon -- not on CNN, not on a lot of other shows, but on Nickelodeon that is true.

And I've always had our grandchildren, they stay at our home very often. And they turn right to Nick, and there they go.

But I just hope that this isn't the beginning of doing something that will -- involves indoctrination. I think that Nickelodeon has a higher perch than that.

BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt you on that point, Linda, and make this point. Which is, I've seen the half-hour special. I watched it earlier today. And I want to put a little picture of the discussion that you have with the group out there, the young kids.

If you take a look at the adults that you brought on the set, there's Rosie O'Donnell, you have a gay fighter -- a gay firefighter, you have a gay principal. But as far as the adults are concerned, on the set with you, during that live discussion, there was no parent who would be opposed to the -- what the Reverend Falwell calls the gay lifestyle.

ELLERBEE: Are you asking me?

BLITZER: Yes.

ELLERBEE: OK, well first of all, this show about tolerance and respect for the children of gay parents, OK. I don't believe that the children of straight parents are being teased or bullied or harassed in any way. So that doesn't seem to make any sense to me. Also, I want say something again: This show is about children and for children. Nickelodeon is the entirely appropriate place to put such a show. Where would you put it, Wolf, on your show? Kids don't watch it.

If you want to talk to kids about tolerance and respect -- and Reverend Falwell, I have a feeling that when you see the show, that you are going to be pleased, because I think you're going to say that this is a show that sticks to the subject of tolerance and respect.

And I think you're going to hear your views and the views of many who feel like you well represented in the show.

FALWELL: Well, hearing what Wolf just said is the first insight I've had. And I have to say, I'm all the more nervous about it now. And that there was not one person there on the set whom I disagree with anything you or Rosie or others were saying. I think that...

ELLERBEE: Oh no, that's not true. That's not true. There actually were four children on the set -- and they're not children; they're 12 to 15.

(CROSSTALK)

ELLERBEE: There were four people on the set who believe as you do. And they are extremely articulate. Children are smart.

BLITZER: Reverend Falwell, hold on for a second. I want to take a quick break, and we'll talk about the children who were on the set, the adults who were on the set, the role models who were there. We have a lot more to talk about on this very important subject.

But just stand by one second. I also want to alert our viewers, they have a chance to weigh in on this story. Our Web question of the day is this: Should Nickelodeon air a special on children who have gay parents? Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote.

While you're there, let me know what you're thinking. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column: cnn.com/wolf.

We'll continue our discussion with Linda Ellerbee and the Reverend Jerry Falwell in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with the Reverend Jerry Falwell and Linda Ellerbee. She's the host of a Nickelodeon special tonight on children with same-sex parents.

Reverend Falwell, one of the young kids who was on the program is a young little girl, a Muslim girl who is asked about this whole issue.

I want you to listen to what she says. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just think there's so many, like, people dying around the world, it's useless to dwell on little differences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: She also says that her religion does not allow for homosexuality, but her religion also says that people should not discriminate and make other children, or other kids feel badly.

You have to acknowledge, there are plenty of these same-sex parents out there, why not address the issue head-on and deal with it so that these kids might have a -- feel a little bit better about themselves, if you will?

FALWELL: Oh, it should be addressed. But I think it should be addressed by parents and pastors. It should not be addressed on a public television network, where everyone in America is subjected to the philosophy of the producer.

And you were just saying that every adult role model on the program happened to be a gay principal, fireman -- I haven't seen the show, so I don't -- I'll just have to take your word for it. But -- and then Rosie, of course, very influential and very charismatic person.

Most parents out there, I can just tell you right now, even though it's 9:00, most parents out there, whose children and grandchildren, like ours, watch Nickelodeon are not going to be happy about this.

BLITZER: All right, Linda, why don't you get back to that issue of why all the people on the set -- the adults on the set were all homosexuals, and that there was no one who would take a different -- from an adult perspective -- a different stance?

ELLERBEE: First let me say this: I am the producer of that show. So I want to make it very clear that I have no gay activist agenda, period, OK.

Now, let's deal with the real world. These kids are out there. "Fag" is the most common hate word on elementary and middle school playgrounds. This weekend I was visiting with friends in Chicago. We were talking about this program. And the father of a 12-year-old boy said, oh, I'm sure, I talk to my children all the time, I'm certain that nobody uses a word like that anymore. And his 12-year-old son said, I hear that word at my school at least a dozen times a day. So the real world is like that.

Now, if it's not right to talk to kids about hate on a television program, why is it OK to talk about racial hate? Why is it OK to talk about other issues? I -- this show is simply not about sex. And I think anyone, if you will give it a chance and watch it, will come to terms with that. FALWELL: But Linda, there are multitudes of us out here who don't believe that gay is genetically transmitted; that persons make choices. We don't believe that adulterers, heterosexual persons who are promiscuous are born that way. They make choices.

That doesn't mean we put them in jail or we mistreat their children. And I think that you can teach respect for others without having a person who is practicing an obnoxious lifestyle delivering the message. It can be done uncontroversially by saying all the things that you'll be saying.

And certainly I can't imagine anyone who professes to be a person of faith allowing children to use the word "fag." I would correct that instantly. My grandchildren..

BLITZER: Reverend Falwell, before our time is up, if you had such a problem with the whole concept of Nickelodeon airing this kind of program, why did you agree to appear in it?

FALWELL: Because Linda was kind enough to allow me to put at least another point of view in the program. I suspect I'm the only other point of view on there. But she was kind enough...

ELLERBEE: You would be wrong in that. You would be very wrong in that.

FALWELL: I'll watch tonight, and we'll see.

But she was kind enough to send a crew here. And I know what I said, and I'll know what aired by 10:00 tonight, 9:30 tonight. And knowing her as a person of honor, I would suspect that she allowed what I said to be said.

But I don't think that's enough. I think I'm brought in as the old boogeyman with the bad message. But the real world is this. And I really don't think the real world is that.

I think the real world has written those 100,000 e-mails to Nickelodeon saying, don't do it.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Very briefly Linda, go ahead. Very briefly.

ELLERBEE: Very briefly: If we can't all be friends, can't we at least be better strangers to one another? That's what the show is about.

FALWELL: I'm for that.

BLITZER: Linda Ellerbee and the Reverend Jerry Falwell. We'll be watching tonight, 9:00 p.m. Eastern on Nickelodeon. A very special half hour. A lot of people will be watching and commenting as well.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. And you won't have Governor Jesse Ventura to kick around much longer. The former pro wrestler says he won't seek a second term as governor of Minnesota. Among other things, he cites the barrage of criticism he and his family have received from the news media.

That's been a regular feature of his term as governor, but during several interviews with me over the years, he's always just seemed to shrug off that criticism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JESSE VENTURA, MINNESOTA: The media, to me, is in the entertainment business today. They're not into the business of making us knowledgeable and making us smarter. They're into whatever works for rating points, and how do we entertain people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A little brouhaha brewing in Minnesota involving new press passes that you've distributed to reporters who cover you. I remember the title of your book that recently came out "Do I Stand Alone? Going to the Mat Against Political Pawns and Media Jackals." We have a cover that we're showing.

Now these new press passes say that -- "official jackal" on the pass. A lot of reporters saying they're not going to wear that kind of press pass.

VENTURA: You know, it's amazing. Wolf, you don't need one; you're a wolf already, so I don't have to call you a jackal.

But it's a joke. It's having some fun, and apparently they can't -- they don't feel that I can have some fun at their expense, even though they do at mine a great deal of the time.

I think they're all taking it far too seriously. And if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: This note: The governor has until July 16 to change his mind if he decides he does want to seek reelection.

The steroid scandal in Major League Baseball reaches a crescendo here in Washington on Capitol Hill. Will baseball's top executives be held accountable? We'll have the latest, just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Here's an update to a story we broke on this program last month.

With a possible strike looming and talk of folding a couple of teams, Major League Baseball would appear to be having enough problems. Now come charges of rampant use of steroids, which lawmakers wanted to hear about today.

CNN's Josie Karp has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSIE KARP, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Steroid use in Major League Baseball was elevated from our national pastime's concern to our nation's concern on Tuesday when a Senate subcommittee convened a hearing to discuss the issue.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: If somehow young athletes believe that it is not only acceptable, but the way to become a Major League Baseball player, is by -- through the use of anabolic steroids, that's a terrible message to send.

KARP: The hearing was called in response to recent revelations like the one made by former National League MVP Ken Caminiti, that during his career he used steroid.

Much of the discussion Tuesday centered on whether baseball, like the NBA and the NFL, will start testing for steroids.

ROBERT MANFRED, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL: Our fans are being affected. They're questioning the athletes, themselves. And so I would hope that the Players Association recognizes that this is not an if or a maybe, this is something that must be done.

KARP (on camera): With owners and players trying to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement, baseball has presented the union with a proposal that would include three random drug tests per year.

DON FEHR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, PLAYERS UNION: With all due respect, I don't think the problems that are being described now are going to be solved based upon whether or not baseball gets a collective bargaining agreement. That's a problem we'll have to deal with on our own for baseball. But the problems are rather more widespread than that.

KARP (voice-over): Interests in the issue is spreading wider, too: from the ballpark to the Capitol.

I'm Josie Karp.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's go to New York again and get a preview of LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE. That begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, "MONEYLINE": Wolf, thank you.

Coming up next: Israel retaliates against the worse suicide attack to hit Jerusalem in six years. We'll have a live report for you from the West Bank. We'll also have the latest from the White House on how these latest attacks may affect the Bush administration's peace effort in the Middle East.

Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill joins us tonight. He says it's time for corporate leaders to take responsibility for their action, and those of their management teams.

Please join us for all that and more at the top of the hour.

Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.

And in our picture of the day: He looks like he's dressed for Halloween. Coming up: proof that this spider-man can also act the part.

And the results of our Web question upcoming: Should Nickelodeon air a special on children who have gay parents?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Looking at our picture of the day: Zorro and Robin Hood were his childhood heroes, now he patterns himself after Spider-Man. And when it comes to climbing ability, this French daredevil is certainly in the same league.

He's added a Paris tower to his resume, climbing without a rope or insurance, he's set his sights on the skyscrapers of Asia.

Good luck to you.

Here's your chance -- let's get the results of our Web question of the day. Earlier we asked: Should Nickelodeon air a special on children who have gay parents? Forty-two percent of you so far say yes; 58 percent of you say no.

Remember: This is not a scientific poll.

Time now to hear from you directly. Many of our viewers have their own theories about the identity of Deep Throat, a subject we covered yesterday on the 30th anniversary of the Watergate break-in.

Harry writes: "There never was a Deep Throat. It was an illusion created to divert attention from the guilty parties."

Bonnie says: "I believe there was a Deep Throat, as I believe that both Woodward and Bernstein were very careful to be completely accurate in all the facts they presented."

Cathay writes this: "Nixon was not a criminal in the ordinary sense. He did what he thought was in the nation's best interest, as well as his own."

And this additional e-mail from B. Moore: "Nixon was a truly arrogant man, but I'm sure Woodward and Frost" -- Sir David Frost, that is, who was on my program -- "would agree that Bill Clinton was the criminal of all times."

I got a lot of e-mail making that same point.

This final note, I received e-mail as well from many of my alert viewers correcting two mistakes I made yesterday. In the World Cup, the United States team beat Mexico 2-nil, not 2-1 as I mistakenly reported.

And Myrtle Beach, South Carolina is, of course, located on the Atlantic Coast, not on the Gulf. What was I thinking?

Please keep those corrections coming in.

That's all the time we have today. I'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE begins right now.

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