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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
FBI Looks at Inglewood Beating; Smart Family Receives Suspicious Letter; NBA Player Gives Sister a Kidney; Technology Against Terrorism
Aired July 10, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, as bad as it looks? Were police justified in their handling of this man? We'll ask an expert on police restraint.
The FBI investigates the beating of a California teen as another alleged abuse victim comes forward.
Hoax or hope? The father of Elizabeth Smart says he's received a "suspicious" letter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART: It wasn't a ransom note. It was just -- they were -- it indicated that they wanted to negotiate a release.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: They call him "the answer," but does he have an answer? Police say they have all they need to make an assault case against NBA star Allen Iverson.
Another NBA player puts his career on the line to save his sister's life, and now has a message for you.
And it's over for an ex-mayor and his ex.
It's Wednesday, July 10, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
More than ever before, Americans are depending on police to keep the streets safe and to make the homeland secure. But, southern California's latest police violence controversy is expanding today, and the U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft says he's greatly troubled by the allegations.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez is in Inglewood, California. She has the latest developments -- Thelma.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, attorneys for 16- year-old Donovan Jackson and his father have come here to federal court in Los Angeles to file a lawsuit against the City of Inglewood, the police officers and the sheriff's deputies who were present during the beating. Now today attorneys held a news conference and they said that Coby Chavis and his 16-year-old son Donovan were both beaten before cameras started rolling. That is where they say the worst injuries were sustained.
They say the officers provoked the incident and so far the sheriff's department and Inglewood police have not commented on the lawsuit. Officer Jeremy Morse, who you see on the tape was placed on paid administrative leave, but attorneys say that all the officers, those who did nothing to stop the beating, are responsible. Attorneys claim that Donovan's civil rights were violated by excessive and unreasonable use of force.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SWEENEY, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY: We want to send the City of Inglewood a message that we are going to prosecute this case as vigorously and as roughly as they beat our clients.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTIERREZ: A second Inglewood resident has now come forward. His name is Nielson Williams. He's 32 years old. Williams alleges that Inglewood police beat him two weeks before the Jackson incident. He says that it happened while he was on his way home from a gathering at a local park and here's how he describes it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEILSON WILLIAMS, ALLEGED BEATING VICTIM: I was pretty much encountered by a fleet of Inglewood police officers who pretty much had no respect for me, anything I was trying to tell them and they just basically beat me to a pulp and almost beat me to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTIERREZ: Inglewood police have also released a statement and they say that Williams appeared to be drunk, that he appeared to be under the influence of drugs when they stopped him. They said that he was combative, that he actually tried to fight the officers and that's their side of the story. They say that they had put him in some kind of a neck hold and in handcuffs and it wasn't until then that they realized that he was breathing, but that he was unconscious.
Now, again, as far as the Jackson lawsuit, they are asking for general damages, medical expenses, the cost of attorney's fees and punitive damages. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thelma Gutierrez, she's been on this story from the very beginning. Thank you very much.
And another videotape has now surfaced, this one in Oklahoma City. It was recorded by a so-called video vigilante, someone who routinely videotapes illegal sexual activity and makes it available to police. In this case, a heavyset man is spotted in a car, allegedly with a prostitute. A police officer orders them both to step outside and lay down on the ground. The woman complies. The man does not. In addition, he's suspected of trying to swallow what the police say appeared to be marijuana. This is indeed a very different case than what we have all seen on that Inglewood, California videotape. Here we see the incident pretty much from the beginning to the very end, so we can get the full context of what's going on, and I want to show our viewers much of that videotape right now.
And joining us to discuss what we are seeing is Gary Hankins. He's the past president of the Washington, D.C. Fraternal Order of Police. Gary, as we show this videotape in Oklahoma City, you're going to see it yourself. Tell our viewers what is proper use of force to restrain a suspect and what isn't as far as police officers are taught in their academies and watch this videotape as we see this incident.
The whole incident took about six minutes, we're going to show about three minutes of it. We've taken out a few extraneous segments, but you can see the individual, he's on the ground. But go ahead and talk to us about what we're seeing.
GARY HANKINS, FORMER PRESIDENT, D.C. FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Well there is a continuum of force philosophy that you use the force that is necessary to subdue a suspect and to secure that they're not going to be able to harm you or others, or that they're not going to be able to reach a weapon, dispose of evidence and other activities that may hinder that prosecution later. For instance, you mentioned that this gentleman may have been trying to put marijuana in his mouth in order to swallow it.
Officers are taught to do what they can to recover that evidence so that that activity, the swallowing of it doesn't deprive you of what you need to prosecute the case. We should also understand that the continuum of force is a bright line that is taught in the academy. But when you get out on the street and you're dealing with someone, you don't want to become one of the 12,000 officers whose names are on the walls in the Memorial here in Washington.
Officers are killed by young people, old people, by men and by women and almost always the officer is surprised. A traffic stop can be one of the most dangerous things that you can do because you're not expecting the kind of response that surprises you. And unfortunately the difference between having your name on the wall and being on television may well be how quickly you responded to and how effectively you control the situation. Do they go overboard sometimes? Yes.
BLITZER: Well in this case we do see the individual, the suspect in this particular case, he's taken out, effectively told to get out of the truck. You can see the truck. He walks over and the police tell him to lie down. First of all, he sits down, but he doesn't lie down. Then the police officer says, "Put your hands behind your back". He refuses to do it and as he's refusing, the police -- he stands up after the police officer tells him to sit down.
You can see it right here. He puts one hand behind his back, but then he moves the other hand. The police officer tells him we need your other hand obviously, he doesn't comply. Did he do the right thing right now as you see on this videotape, when he then turns him around and forcibly orders him to lie down on the ground?
HANKINS: Absolutely. There's a very fine line and a very quick moment where if you lose control of the situation and this gentleman here is much larger than the police officer, he can have your weapon in his hand and kill you with it very quickly. And unfortunately a significant number of officers who are killed are killed with their own weapons when in fact someone who they believe is under control makes a quick movement, grabs your weapon and uses it against you, or a handcuff can become a weapon against you if you lose control of that.
This gentleman was uncooperative and you can never be confident of when that uncooperative attitude is going to be combative. And if you lose control, especially with a man this large, you can be an unfortunate statistic on the wall of our Police Memorial.
BLITZER: And we flash forward. We see here he's now trying to handcuff the suspect by himself. He's obviously a much smaller man. He never -- when he beats him with the stick as you'll see in this videotape. He beats him on his body. He beats him on his legs on the side of his body. He never hits his head. Is that what people are trained -- police officers are trained to do?
HANKINS: Hitting someone on their head isn't an effective way to control that person. It's going to produce a bloody injury that really doesn't do much to incapacitate the person. You would like to strike the limbs, the legs, things that would -- you want to harm and put pain in those limbs that could be used against you and you want to instill cooperation. This officer by himself is completely unable to ...
BLITZER: We see a second officer now coming to the assistance of the first officer. They have the suspect now pinned down on the ground and they're going to handcuff him as our viewers will see, get both of his hands behind his back. But the suspect is still even at this stage resisting. He's trying to sit up. He's trying to get up. That's when the police, once again, as you can see, start hitting him.
HANKINS: Absolutely and it -- while it is -- it seems excessive from a bystander's point of view, I've attended too many funerals. There are too many dead police officers who relaxed a moment and in that moment of relaxation they're dead. In suburban Prince George's County outside Washington here several years ago, a 15-year-old youth, as we described him, took a weapon from one Prince George's County police officer, killed him and then killed another officer because they had not sufficiently restrained him.
BLITZER: But just to give it some context, this case -- what we just saw, this Oklahoma City videotape very different from that snippet of tape that we saw in Inglewood, California.
HANKINS: Well and when you look at that, we didn't see what happened before then. And when you're in a confrontation with someone, including a younger person, like the 15-year-old I just mentioned, you cannot relax. And the moment before you subdue him and gain control, he or she may well be trying to pull your weapon from your holster.
BLITZER: But there's no excuse in Inglewood, California where that one officer smashed him on the hood of the car and then punched him in the face. Is that -- was that necessary?
HANKINS: Well it's not necessary and there's no question that it appears to violate the continuum of force, but if you had been struggling with someone who has just tried to kill you, and I would hope people would put themselves in this position.
BLITZER: We don't know if this young 16-year-old actually tried to kill anyone.
HANKINS: No we don't know, but I'm trying to say that when you're on the street, someone is struggling with you, be it a 15 or 50, if you feel like you're losing control and that person is trying to reach your weapon, trying to harm you, you are getting into a fight and flight mode. You can't flee. It's your job to be there and subdue and to recover. Unfortunately, you can also get killed doing that.
Well, while that's occurring, your adrenaline is flowing. You are frightened. Any cop out there who says I'm never frightened is a liar and that fear and that adrenaline is still with you, and when you get help and you put someone in restraints, you should stop then. That's the policy. That's what you should do, but sometimes the fear, the adrenaline is still there and you overreact and you do something you shouldn't.
BLITZER: And that's what we saw. Gary, I want to thank you very much for helping us understand that. Gary Hankins, formally with the D.C. Fraternal Order of Police, appreciate it very much.
HANKINS: Thank you.
BLITZER: And let's bring in now former United States Congressman, the President of the NAACP, Kweisi Mfume. He's joining us from Houston. Congressman, thanks for joining us. I know you have not yet seen that new videotape from Oklahoma City. You've seen, of course, like all of us the videotape from Inglewood, California -- from Oklahoma, you haven't seen. Inglewood, you have seen. Are you concerned that there's something more to this than just an isolated incident?
KWEISI MFUME, NAACP PRESIDENT: Well I don't have any conspiracy theory that there's this broad pattern that has been coordinated to do things like this. What I do know, however, is that these things happen too often in our society. And I was listening to the gentleman (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yes, there is still adrenaline rolling and rushing I'm sure during an arrest, but at some point in time we pay men and women to cut that off, to find a way to enforce the law, to obey the law and then do what they have to do.
This particular case is ugly. It does not do any good to the good men and women who put on a uniform every day and go out and patrol our communities who work hard, who obey the law. This is not necessary and yet, they get tainted as a result of this by officers who use excessive force, who come up and punch you in the mouth while you're being tied up and handcuffed. There's no excuse in a democratic society for that. It is animal-like behavior, and there's got to be an end to it.
BLITZER: But there's obviously as our previous guest just said, if the adrenaline is pumping, if you think you've been threatened, your partners have been threatened, that someone might be trying to grab your gun and kill you, it's not that easy to turn it off very quickly, even though professionally that's what they're supposed to do.
MFUME: Wolf, I agree, but if their hands are cuffed they certainly can't be trying to grab a gun and you've got three other officers there. So I mean if that's the excuse or if that's the suggestion I think they're really flawed with that kind of reasoning. There's just got to be at some point and time the ability to shut things down and to follow through on the job. Officers get trained to do a lot of things.
One of the things they do get trained to do is to manage a situation, not to exploit a situation, and I think that was an explosive way of turning up a notch the kind of anger that people feel when they see it. If this had not been videotaped, this young man would have made these allegations and everybody would have said yes, well he was a suspect or maybe he was breaking the law and would have not have gone beyond that.
And yet when we see it, we know like good police officers do, that this hurts. It hurts those who watch it. It hurts the men and women in blue that do the right thing, and I think it hurts our society because it says here we go again, another instance where a person is handcuffed, four, five officers around him and you want to pick him up and slam him. You want to punch him in the mouth. You know, we just can't have that in a civilized society.
BLITZER: Does it make any difference that one of those officers, as you can see in the videotape, is black, another one is Hispanic?
MFUME: It makes no difference. Ugly is ugly no matter what color it comes in. Race has nothing to do with whether or not the officers there are black or white or Hispanic or standing around. What happens is that they all witnessed the same thing and no one according to this videotape, no one tried to control that. They allowed the other officer to pick him up and slam the kid down, another one to bang him in the face with his hands tied around his back. I mean people look at that -- there's no real explanation for that.
BLITZER: All right, Kweisi Mfume, a former United States Congressman, President of the NAACP ...
MFUME: Thank you. BLITZER: ... thanks so much for joining us as well. And here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Question Of The Day" is this. Do you think police officers routinely use excessive force on African American suspects? Go to my Web page, cnn.com/Wolf.
That's where you can vote. While you're there, let me know what you're thinking. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. It's also where you can read my daily online column -- cnn.com/Wolf.
There's word today of a mysterious letter in the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping investigation. It's not clear whether the letter is a breakthrough or a hoax.
CNN's Mark Potter joins us now live from Salt Lake City, Utah. He has details -- Mark.
BLITZER: Hello Wolf. Well there are serious questions that are being raised about the credibility of this letter, questions being raised by the police and by the Smart family itself.
Earlier today Ed Smart, the father of the abducted young girl, said that the family received a letter from someone unidentified who purportedly was writing on behalf of the abductor and the letter writer said that the abductor wanted to negotiate the release of the girl.
Now Ed Smart has said that he questions the creditability of this letter, but still thought that he should go public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED SMART, ELIZABETH'S FATHER: The person indicated that the perpetrator or abductor was wanting to release Elizabeth, and I don't know how creditable the correspondence was. It seemed kind of questionable to me, but I felt that it was very important to come out today and to ask the abductor or the person that is out there holding Elizabeth to, you know, please communicate or correspond with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POTTER: Now Ed Smart said in the letter there were no details on how these supposed negotiations were to be conducted. There was no ransom demand. There was no information on the girl herself, no information suggesting proof that she may be alive. Ed Smart said that the -- a copy of the letter was faxed to the police, but the police today said that the first that they heard about it was at the news conference.
They are still investigating, but at the outset they say they, too, have serious doubts about the creditability of this letter. They point out that earlier in this case there were three false ransom demands that were chased down. They did not pan out, and so they have some serious doubts here. They also say that they continue to focus their investigation on Richard Ricci, the handyman who tomorrow afternoon, we are told, will face some charges of burglary and theft, including taking items from the Smart home, another home in the neighborhood and a Home Depot store, but again no charges yet in the abduction itself -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mark Potter, thank you very much for that update. We want to continue to follow up on this story.
Now joining us now live from Salt Lake City is Elizabeth Smart's uncle, David Smart. Mr. Smart, thank you so much for joining us. Mark Potter in his report made an interesting point. He said that your brother released this letter effectively to the news media before he released it to the police. Why would he do that?
DAVID SMART, ELIZABETH'S UNCLE: Well, actually his understanding was -- I mean this -- there was a person that gave it to Ed. There was someone in between who received it and who then gave it to Ed and from Ed's understanding the police had already received a copy of it.
BLITZER: So but when he went public earlier this afternoon, he assumed the police already had that letter?
SMART: Yes, correct.
BLITZER: Did the police authorize him to release its existence to the news media?
SMART: That I don't know. I guess not. The main thing is, Wolf, is I mean, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of letters have come in, and I know the police have gone through the different letters and this was just one that kind of hit Ed just a little bit odd and wanted to make sure -- I mean he's come out and he's given pleas at the different press conferences.
He's made pleas to this abductor or this person who has Elizabeth and the one thing that kind of hit him was you know I've been making a plea, but I have never said that I want to communicate with this individual and see if something cannot be worked out and that was the main objective. That was Ed's main objective this afternoon, was to let this person know that he would like to communicate with them and see if there's something that can't be worked out to get Elizabeth back.
BLITZER: The only reason I'm asking these questions is because normally when a suspicious letter comes in, the police want to inspect it, look for fingerprints, look for other identification marks that might perhaps lead to the person who wrote that letter and if you release it prematurely to the news media, that could complicate potentially serious investigation.
SMART: That could. There's no question about that, and Ed to his understanding, the police already had had the letter, and as you know, many of the other letters have been directed to them and he's had a copy of some of them and this is one that just kind of hit him odd and just wanted to make sure that he made an announcement to this abductor or person that he would like to communicate with them and see what he can't work out in getting Elizabeth back. That was the main thing that he wanted to achieve.
BLITZER: OK. David Smart, our heart goes out to you and your entire family. Good luck in this search. We hope Elizabeth will be back with you as soon as possible. Thank you very much.
SMART: Thank you -- thank you Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you and the Dow Jones industrial closed below 9000 today, for the first time since last October, and the Nasdaq and S&P indexes (ph) hit new five-year lows. Joining us now live from New York, CNN's Jan Hopkins. How bad is the situation? How much worse could it get Jan?
JAN HOPKINS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Well people say that we may be have not hit bottom yet because there's such a crisis of confidence on the part of investors. They just don't believe what companies are saying and every day there seems to be another scandal. Today Qwest said that it was under criminal investigation by a U.S. attorney's office.
So there are lots of reasons for investors to be nervous. You know Wolf, $310 billion of market value was erased today and we are at levels that we haven't seen in the overall market in four years. Another thing to point out is that it is becoming a political issue. During President Bush's tenure, the market is down now 32 percent since he took office. That is the worst showing since President Nixon was in office, and it could very well be a political issue in the elections in the fall.
BLITZER: Jan Hopkins ...
HOPKINS: Wolf.
BLITZER: ... of course we'll have much more at the top of the hour on this important story on Lou Dobbs MONEYLINE. He'll have wall- to-wall coverage as he always does.
From teen trouble to basketball star, Allen Iverson finds himself possibly in trouble with the law once again. The latest from Philadelphia's district attorney when we return.
Plus, sex, power and politics, the last chapter in Rudy Giuliani's bitter divorce.
And this basketball star has a hero's story. What inspired him to risk his career and indeed his life and donate his kidney? Greg Ostertag joins us live. Stay with us.
First our news quiz. Thousands of Americans are on a waiting list for organ donations. Which organ donation waiting list is the longest? Heart? Kidney? Liver? Lung? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. Police want assault charges filed against Philadelphia 76ers star Allen Iverson, but prosecutors may not be in such a hurry.
Our national correspondent Bob Franken joins us now live from Philadelphia -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Wolf, the decision was no decision after the district attorney's representatives met with police investigators for over three hours to talk about charges that Allen Iverson on July 3 had crashed into the apartment of a cousin and was wearing a gun and issued threats.
Police wanted to charge him with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) felony charges. The prosecutors decided they had not really been able to make the conclusion that those were warranted charges, so there's going to be a further investigation. Of course Iverson has had his problems with the law before. He's out of sight right now, not available for comment, but if I can use a basketball term, what the prosecutors have decided is that this is not a slam-dunk -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Bob Franken with the latest from Philadelphia. You'll be all over this story I am sure.
And a jury has found a former Georgia sheriff guilty of having his elected successor shot to death.
CNN's David Mattingly reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the fall of 2000, Derwin Brown won the race for sheriff in Atlanta's neighboring DeKalb County. Promising to end corruption, supporters viewed him as a breath of fresh air in the management of the county's law enforcement and jail. But just three days before he was to take office, Brown was gunned down in his drive way, an assassination some said ordered by the man he defeated, the outgoing sheriff Sidney Dorsey. And Wednesday afternoon a Georgia jury agreed, finding Dorsey guilty of murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We the jury find the defendant as to count one guilty.
MATTINGLY (voice over): The verdict was an end to a long emotional journey for the Brown family.
PHYLLIS BROWN, VICTIM'S WIFE: I'm glad that it's over. I'm glad that the jury in its wisdom saw what really happened, and now I can go face Derwin with a smile.
MATTINGLY (voice over): Two alleged coconspirators had previously been acquitted and concerns carried into the case against Dorsey that there might not have been enough evidence for a conviction. The prosecutor's case relied heavily on the shaky credibility of a former sheriff's deputy who testified against Dorsey in exchange for immunity.
BRIAN STEEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This was a tragic verdict for an innocent man and in no way it belittles the loss of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Derwin Brown.
MATTINGLY (voice over): Dorsey was also found guilty on 11 charges of corruption, two Georgia racketeering counts, one count of violating his oath of office, and eight counts of theft for using county personnel for his personal you use.
J.T. MORGAN, PROSECUTOR: The first suspect was Sidney Dorsey. A correction investigation had already begun by my office and by Derwin Brown.
MATTINGLY (voice over): The jury deliberated less than three full days. As late as noon on Wednesday, the jury had remained deadlocked on the charge of murder and asked the judge if they should continue. Two and a half hours later a verdict was reached in a nearly too long search for justice in the murder of a reform minded sheriff was over.
David Mattingly, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And this just in, we have some dramatic video that we're going to show you, a live picture. In fact, take a look at this automobile. A rescue operation is now under way at this bridge in Sanford, Florida. That's not far from Orlando. It's Interstate 4, the east-west corridor in Florida near Orlando. This car is overturned. There is a person inside this car. The rescue operation is underway. You can see rescue workers attempting to get inside as this car dangles off the side of this overpass of this bridge. There's a woman, we are told, inside this car. Rescue workers trying to save this woman, make sure that the car does not fall off the side of the bridge. We're getting these live pictures from our affiliate WESH in Florida.
Once again, this is taking place in Sanford, Florida along Interstate 4 near Orlando, a dramatic rescue operation underway right now. We're going to continue to monitor this picture, see what's going on. Once we get a little bit more information, we'll be going back and updating you on the outcome. The rescue operation continuing for the time being.
And one of New York's most famous mayors is of course, putting a personal crisis behind him. Coming up, resolution for Rudy.
Plus, big Jesse sidelined from politics. An update on a story we broke yesterday on a blood clot that landed him in the hospital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. There will be no public spectacle to end former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's two-decade marriage to Donna Hanover. An out of court settlement has headed off a trial that was set to begin today. CNN's Jason Carroll is in New York. He has all the details -- Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Wolf, today was the deadline in order to reach a settlement. Otherwise, this case definitely would have gone to trial. But attorneys on both sides of this case were able to meet throughout the night and met also this morning and also early this afternoon. Finally, they were able to hammer out some of the sticking points and come up with an agreement.
Both sides had had enough of all of this publicity. This story was basically the only story in New York City before 9/11. There were ugly allegations on both sides, Giuliani claiming cruel and unusual treatment by Hanover during their marriage, especially wile he was suffering from prostate cancer. Hanover is saying it was Giuliani who was cruel for having a -- quote -- "notorious, open affair." The two also bickered over money. They also argued over custody of their children. But in the end, again, both sides were able to come up with an agreement both could live with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: For the sake of the children and really all of us, I'm relieved that we're able to reach an agreement on all of these different terms and spare everyone any further pain or embarrassment or anything else. And I hope for the very, very best for Donna.
HELEN BREZINSKY, DONNA HANOVER'S ATTORNEY: Rudy has admitted that he was cruel and inhuman. The children will be with -- will remain with Donna. He willing be paying her more than $6.8 million.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I'm sorry, could you say that again?
BREZINSKY: He will be paying her more than $6.8 million. This is a spectacular win for Donna and the children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: The judge who presided over this case for the past 18 months said it was remarkably challenging dealing with people with such intensely strong personalities. She also wished them both the very best of luck and told them that she hoped both of them did not end up in her courtroom again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jason Carroll in New York with the latest on that. Thank you very much.
Now to a story of love, incredible love and courage. You can credit Utah Jazz center, Greg Ostertag with a very big assist, but it wasn't on the basketball court. The NBA veteran recently donated a kidney to his sister.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Greg Ostertag has been a sometimes effective, sometimes underachieving player during his seven-year career with the NBA's Utah Jazz. He's known as a shot blocker and rebounder who can plug up the middle of the court. But at seven-feet-two-inches that's enough to put together a long and lucrative career. So Ostertag interrupted that career and maybe even jeopardized it to donate a kidney to his sister a couple weeks ago the word "teammate" took on new meaning.
Ostertag's sister, Amy Hall, has been afflicted with diabetic kidney disease and without a transplant, would have required dialysis three days a week to survive. The operation went well. Ostertag's sister responded beautifully and if there are no complications, he should be able to return to playing and would become the first American pro-athlete to become a living donor while still active in his sport.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: What a story! When we come back, we'll speak live with Greg Ostertag and his sister, Amy Hall. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked, which organ donation waiting list is the longest? The answer, kidney. More than 52,000 patients are waiting for a kidney transplant.
And fortunately, both Greg Ostertag and his sister, Amy Hall, are doing well almost two weeks after their surgery. They join us now live from Plano, Texas.
Thanks to both of you for joining us. You could put a little smile on your face. Everything seemed to have worked out quite well, didn't it, Greg?
GREG OSTERTAG, CENTER, UTAH JAZZ: Oh, yes. Everything worked out really well. You know, surgery went well. The nurses were bothering me a lot. I was trying to sleep. But other than that, everything went really good.
BLITZER: Tell us what the background was, why you were forced -- you wanted to give up one of your kidneys?
OSTERTAG: You know, she called me up day and just said that she needed a kidney. I had known, you know, for a while that she was going to eventually need one. I didn't know she was going to need one, like, by the end of the summer, you know. But she called up and said, My kidneys are about to turn themselves off, and I am probably need you to give me your kidney this summer. I said that's cool. You know, just let me know what I need to do, what doctors I need to call, figure out what tests I need to get done, and it was on.
BLITZER: Amy, you...
AMY HALL, SISTER OF GREG OSTERTAG: That's exactly how he responded, too.
BLITZER: You have a pretty amazing brother who, in the middle of his professional basketball career, is willing to take a risk like that in order to help you. How do you feel about that? HALL: Oh, I thank my lucky stars every day. He was wonderful, he has been that way since the beginning. Never thought -- never thought, I shouldn't be doing this. Never said, you know, Let me think about it. He has just been absolutely gung-ho about it from the very beginning and I couldn't ask for a better brother. Very thankful to have him.
BLITZER: What did the doctors say to you -- what did the doctors say to you, Greg, about the risks for you and for your basketball career, and maybe even for your own life by giving up one of your kidneys?
OSTERTAG: They said, you know, the risks were there for something to go wrong, that it may kill me, but the risks are real low. I mean, it's like three in 10,000, or something like that. I'm not really sure. But it's real low. But so -- and as far as my playing career, they didn't say it would affect me at all. I should be the same person, you know, be able to play as much as I did before, and more this year.
BLITZER: Do you...
OSTERTAG: The only thing now is that I have got to be -- go ahead.
BLITZER: Are you going to be able to go to training camp and play this year? Did the doctors give you that clean bill of health?
OSTERTAG: Oh, yes. They cleaned me right up. They said by the time training camp rolls around, I should be ready to go at 100 percent, without any problems. The only thing now is I have to worry about is making sure I don't cause any major trauma to my other one, trying to stay out of car accidents, falling out of trees, and stuff like that, while I'm home or something.
BLITZER: But what about -- what about your game? Basketball and the NBA is pretty much of a contact sport. You have got some other power centers, power forwards, big guys who are bumping up with you all the time. You have got to be a little bit worried about that.
OSTERTAG: Yes, but a shot to a kidney now, although it doesn't have to be really hard, it has got to be a pretty good shot. Basketball is a contact sport, but most of your contact is up around your head and your shoulders and your chest most of the time. There's probably a freak elbow every once in a while, but usually they are not hard enough to affect much. It's just not something I am going to worry about.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: So you're definitely going to go forward -- you are definitely go forward -- you are going to definitely go forward and play in the NBA this year?
OSTERTAG: Oh, definitely. I mean, it's not something -- it's not something I am going to wake up every day and wonder if I am going to get hit. I just -- I don't even think about it now. I just -- I get up and do what I want to do and go. It's -- I'm perfectly healthy, and stuff like that.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Amy, first of all, tell us who that young little guy behind you is.
HALL: Who does he look like?
BLITZER: He looks very cute.
HALL: It's -- that's Greg's son, Cody.
BLITZER: Cody is a cute guy. Tell us who you feel, Amy, and what the prognosis is for you.
HALL: Actually, I feel almost 100 percent better. My -- all my fatigue has gone away, thank goodness, but they told me that would almost happen instantly, which it did. I'm just sorry I waited so long to do it, because I really didn't -- I didn't realize how bad I felt until I got the new kidney. My prognosis looks really good. Just have -- I'm taking a ton of medicine, which, in the reality of things, it's not that big of a deal.
Of course, I will on medication for the rest of my life. But as far as my prognosis is, I have to go to the doctor right now three times a week, and that's for the first month. And then after that, it will drop back to like once a week, and then once a year. So, I'm looking forward to that, but I know I have to do this to follow-up, and make sure everything is working how it's supposed to, but -- organ donation is a great thing. I will -- I have to stress that. I can't stress that enough.
BLITZER: You know -- let's talk about that just very briefly, Greg. This must have had an impact on this whole notion of organ donation and transplanting organs. You and your sister are uniquely qualified to receive each others' organs, obviously. But what has it taught you this whole experience?
OSTERTAG: It's taught me, don't be afraid. It's not -- aside from the pain -- aside from the pain, the first week and stuff like that, it's really not a big deal. You have got to do a few tests, and get a little bit of blood drawn. But other than that, it's not as scary as everybody makes it out to be. It is just -- I was in an operating room for two and a half hours, and woke up, had a little pain for a week, and that was about it. So it's -- it's a big thing, and if there is an opportunity for you to do it for a family member, go right ahead. It's -- I don't think it's life-threatening at all, you know, so do it, if you got the chance. Except for some people.
BLITZER: I know -- we all know you did it for your little baby sister. She loves you, and I'm sure that everybody is very, very impressed, totally impressed by your courage and your ability to do this. Congratulations to both of you, Amy and Greg. We'll be watching you play with the Utah Jazz this season, we will be admiring you on the playing court. Thanks to both of you for joining us.
OSTERTAG: I appreciate it.
HALL: Thanks.
BLITZER: And there may be new ammunition in the war on terror and protecting you at home. Senator Bob Kerry will show us, next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A hovering gyro plane that can detect radiation and an anti-terror truck that sprays tear gas, oil slicks and smoke screens and a handheld bomb sniffer, some of the products displayed on Capitol Hill today to showcase small business ingenuity in the war against terror. Senator John Kerry is co-chairman of the Homeland Security Expo. He joins me now live from Capitol Hill.
Senator Kerry, thanks for joining us. What is this all about?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), SMALL BUSINESS COMMITTEE: Well, I'm...
BLITZER: Senator Kerry, what's the expo all about?
KERRY: Well, Wolf, the -- what we're trying to do is show that there a lot of small entrepreneurial efforts in the country that could make an enormous contribution to the war on terror. Let me give you an example. These are pair of glasses so that if you were a customer and come into a counter at the airlines and you had a preferred card; they could pass that card through. The person wearing this would get a message back within five seconds that you are who you say you are on that card. There's a visual identification.
Here you have a cream that guards against anthrax. Here you have, literally, a tooth telephone that if firemen in a firefighting situation are wearing the tooth telephone, they can communicate to each other and to others instantaneously. You have different kinds of security capacity for entry to airports to secure facilities.
There are all kinds of ways that technology could contribute to our safety in this country and grow our economy and produce a lot of jobs at the same time.
BLITZER: What's your personal favorite item that you've seen over there, Senator?
KERRY: Well, my personal favorite -- I'm a pilot and I love this gyro copter over here, which costs about $150 an hour to run. It can go as slow as 40 miles per hour, as fast as 150 miles an hour. It could be used for surveillance and for police work, for border patrol, for all kinds of things, much less expensively than maintaining a helicopter. So there are lots of ways for us to use our creative ingenuity in this country, to do a cheap sort of inexpensive but at the same time thorough and confident job of protecting Americans.
BLITZER: Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, a Vietnam veteran showing us some new gadgets, some new trinkets, important devices that potentially could save our lives. Thanks so much for joining me.
KERRY: Thanks a lot.
BLITZER: When we come back, we'll update you on the condition of Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura. I'll speak live with one of his aides. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOUD DOBBS MONEYLINE." That begins right at the top of the hour. Jan Hopkins is sitting in tonight for Lou -- Jan.
JAN HOPKINS, HOST, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Thanks, Wolf. Coming up on "MONEYLINE," a shareholders lawsuit is filed against Vice President Cheney and Halliburton, the company that he led. We'll have a report and White House reaction.
And another brutal session on Wall Street, the Dow falling below 9000. We'll have complete market coverage and I'll talk to Wall Street veteran Hugh Johnson.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jan.
And updating a story that broke during this program yesterday, doctors now say Minnesota Governor Jesse Ventura will remain in the hospital until they're sure a blood clot in his lung has dissolved. Pulmonary problems ended Ventura's pro wrestling career.
With us now from Minneapolis is Governor Ventura's long-time aide, John Wodele.
John, thanks for joining us. Tell us how the governor is doing.
JOHN WODELE, GOVERNOR VENTURA'S COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I just talked to the governor just about 45 minutes ago, Wolf, and he was quite energetic. In fact, he was quite feisty. He's kind of his old self. So I think he's eager to get through this and get back to work.
BLITZER: What was the problem? What was -- was he sick? Was he complaining of chest pains?
WODELE: The governor woke up on Monday morning not feeling well, feeling some discomfort. He had thought perhaps that it was just something as a result of his exercise. He's been doing a lot of working out lately, getting into shape. And so, he didn't pay too much attention to it until Tuesday when he went to his doctor. And his doctor then felt the worse could be true and sent him to the hospital where they diagnosed it as a recurring blood clot in his lung and -- which you know can be quite serious.
BLITZER: How long will he remain in the hospital and what's the long-term prognosis? WODELE: Well, Governor Ventura has been dealing with this problem for a long time. Back in the mid 80s as a wrestler, he suffered a blood clot that moved from his leg and into his lungs. And he was in very, very, serious, grave condition at the time. So this is, as far as I know, his second episode with this pulmonary problem.
The expectation is that the governor will recover. He was doing fine this afternoon. It's just a matter of getting dissolved and making sure that it's absolutely dissolved before he's released from the hospital. And as the governor told me today, he hopes to be back to work on Monday.
BLITZER: Let's hope that he is. John Wodele, always good to talk to you. Give our best to the governor; wish him a speedy recovery from all of us.
WODELE: We sure will, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much John Wodele of Governor Ventura's staff.
Now, here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked -- do you think police officers routinely use excessive force on African-American suspects? Look at the results over here. Sixty-two percent of you say "yes." Thirty-eight percent say "no." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
We want to update you now on a story we showed you earlier from Florida, from Sanford, Florida. There was a rescue attempt. This car was perched over the interstate. It looked like it could be falling off. There was a woman inside. We're happy to report to you, rescue workers safely got her out of the car. The -- you see the car now being taken back and everything has worked out just fine. She is apparently fine as well. A happy ending to that story.
That's all the time we have today. I'll be back tomorrow with much more news at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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