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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Anthrax Investigation Takes Dramatic Turn; Administration Looks Into How Many Would Die in Iraq Attack; Palestinian Terror Produces U.S. Rage

Aired August 01, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: The anthrax investigation takes a dramatic turn.

Was U.S. intelligence tracking one of the flight 93 hijackers months before September 11? The results of an exclusive CNN investigation.

If the U.S. attacks Iraq, how many Americans would die? The Pentagon considers the odds.

And Palestinian terror produces U.S. rage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I am just as angry as Israel is right now. I'm furious that innocent lives were lost.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: One day after the bombing of Hebrew University, bodies of American victims are on their way home.

I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Welcome.

We're following two breaking developments in the terror investigation that's been going on since last fall. Right now, FBI agents are on the hunt for the anthrax killer. What brings them to a Maryland apartment? Is this a turning point in this many months of investigation? We'll have complete details.

Also this hour: CNN Investigates. did one of the hijackers on United Airlines flight 93 slip through the U.S. government's fingers months before September 11? We'll have a report from CNN's Sheila MacVicar.

Let's begin, though, with anthrax. The FBI may -- repeat, may -- be on the verge of arresting the person who carried out last year's deadly anthrax attacks. Law enforcement sources say a former Army researcher is now a potential suspect in those attacks, which killed five people.

Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, has been on top of this developing story all day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): FBI agents working the anthrax investigation once again descended on these apartments in central Maryland. It's where Steven Hatfill lives. He's a researcher who used to work at Fort Detrick, which houses a U.S. Army bioweapons defense lab. Witnesses to the search say FBI agents confiscated a Camaro, among other items.

JOEY DILAURA, SEARCH WITNESS: I don't know. I just know it's heavy. When you see that many cars rolling in with Washington plates and Virginia plates, I know it's very, very heavy.

ARENA: It's the second time investigators have searched his home, which happens to be close to Fort Detrick, where workers have experimented with anthrax. The first search was consensual. This time, investigators came armed with a warrant. It's not clear what brought investigators back, but Hatfill, who sources say was being called a "person of interest," is now a "potential suspect" in the anthrax investigation.

The FBI would not comment. When asked, Director Robert Mueller had only this to say.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: As I said, I can't get into the -- what is being undertaken in the course of the investigation, but I do believe we're making progress.

ARENA: Sources say Hatfill has previously been interviewed by the FBI and polygraphed. He's just one of dozens of scientists who have agreed to cooperate with investigators, who from the beginning have said they were focusing on the scientific community.

VAN HARP, ASST. FBI DIRECTOR: Whoever produced that had significant technical ability. We feel they had some experience, and they had access to some pretty sophisticated equipment.

ARENA: Hatfill has drawn the most attention. He's even been the subject of Web site gossip among scientists about possible domestic suspects.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

One of the reasons for that is a study that he commissioned in 1999 that described a fictional terrorist attack in which an envelope containing anthrax is opened in an office. And CNN has made repeated efforts to contact Hatfill and his lawyer, but so far, Wolf, we've gotten no response.

Back to you.

BLITZER: Kelli Arena, thank you for that excellent reporting. Appreciate it very much.

And the last thing the American people needed right after the September terror attacks was another unknown killer, but that's just what happened, potential death hiding in delivered letters, waiting to be opened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): The anthrax attacks which began last fall killed of five people. But the scope of the attacks, and the fear they generated, were devastating to a nation reeling from September 11. The attacks came in the form of anthrax-laced letters sent through the mail to members of Congress and to various media companies. Some contained threatening language aimed at the U.S. and Israel. Most, if not all, of these letters are believed to have contaminated the Brentwood postal facility in Washington, D.C., and a post office in Hamilton Township, New Jersey.

The first actual cases developed near Boca Raton, Florida. Robert Stevens, who worked at a tabloid newspaper, died of inhalation anthrax on October 5. Two other people who worked at the newspaper were also infected but survived. A few days later, an employee of NBC in New York tested positive for cutaneous, or skin, anthrax after handling a letter sent to news anchor Tom Brokaw. She also survived.

October 15, a letter addressed to Senate majority leader Tom Daschle containing an especially deadly concentration of anthrax was opened in his office. House and Senate office buildings were shut down for several days, and more than 30 people who worked in or near the Capitol eventually tested positive for anthrax. All survived.

The same day the Daschle letter arrived, the 7-month-old son of an ABC News employee in New York was found to be infected with skin anthrax. He also survived. But on October 22, two postal employees in Washington died of inhalation anthrax. Thousands of postal workers in the D.C. area had to get tested and began taking antibiotics.

October 31, Kathy Nguyen, a hospital worker in New York City, died of inhalation anthrax. November 17, another letter laced with anthrax and addressed to Vermont senator Patrick Leahy was discovered in a batch of quarantined mail in Washington. That letter was opened about three weeks later and resembled the Daschle letter.

On November 21, Otile Lundgren (ph), a 94-year-old widow in Oxford, Connecticut, died of anthrax.

In addition to the fatalities, at least 13 people were infected with skin or respiratory anthrax and survived. But the so-called anthrax scare remains in the psyche of the American people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Joining us now with some insight on this anthrax case is the Republican congressman Chris Shays of Connecticut.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Sure, Wolf. BLITZER: What is your take on these dramatic developments, law enforcement sources suggesting that this one Steven Hatfill, a U.S. Army employee, is now a potential suspect?

SHAYS: Well, he is, obviously, a potential suspect. You want to kind of hope it's not like Wen Ho Lee. You want to make sure that they're doing this properly. But what surprised me is that, really, we knew that this person -- the profile was white, male, from the east coast, middle-aged, technically skilled, have access to a laboratory. And we knew that the people who were going to help us solve this were also potential -- potential terrorists, who were doing it.

And so we're surprised that it's taken so long to do the polygraph tests. And it does seem like the FBI works very slowly, which makes us wonder how well-versed are they with working with local and state officials and public health. I'm not sure they have the expertise dealing with biological types of terrorist activities.

BLITZER: Well, no one on Capitol Hill knows more about biological warfare than you do. I know you've had more hearings on this subject than any other U.S. member of Congress. But about Steven Hatfill -- have you done some of your own investigating into who, precisely, this individual is?

SHAYS: No, we haven't done that. This is something that we want the FBI to focus on. But what is very clear is the challenge for the FBI is the very people that are trying to help them solve this terrorist act are also potentially the people who did it. And that's what makes this is a bit more complicated.

BLITZER: Did you always assume -- if, in fact, this -- this lead pans out -- that it was an individual, a U.S. citizen, as opposed to foreign terrorists?

SHAYS: Yes, we always assumed that -- especially when we knew it was the Ames strain, even though, obviously, that's been shared with scientists around the world -- just the way it was unfolded, the way it happened. This was not a well-thought-out terrorist attack, in the sense that -- you know, potentially, a terrorist could have sent 100,000 letters to umpteen number places, so this was a little different than what we would have anticipated a terrorist to do from overseas. But this clearly is a terrorist attack.

BLITZER: Are you, finally, Congressman, convinced that the U.S. public, the American people, are better protected today from this kind of anthrax terrorism than we were a few months ago?

SHAYS: Oh, we're better protected. But really, the FBI needs to rebuild. I think the FBI has been in the position where we've always done it this way. And this a new world out there, and they've got to get people with different expertise. They're great at gathering evidence, physical evidence. They're not so good at intelligence work, and we've got to marry the two. The CIA are great at intelligence, the FBI are great at gathering hard data, evidence. But we got to marry the two together. BLITZER: Congressman Chris Shays of Connecticut, thanks for helping us better understand this story a little bit today. Thank you very much.

Did U.S. intelligence have a September 11 hijacker in their grasp, and then set him free? CNN Investigates how Ziad Jarrah slipped through the net. Who knew what and when? Our Sheila MacVicar joins us live with a special report when we return.

Also: Palestinian terror hits home, two Americans flown back to the United States in coffins. The fallout from the latest terror attack in Jerusalem.

And murder at Fort Bragg. Is the U.S. military doing enough to stop domestic violence in its ranks? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Ever since the September 11 terror attacks, there's been a continuing debate over what the U.S. government knew or suspected, and whether anything could have been done to prevent or limit the attack.

Now, an exclusive CNN investigation has turned up allegations U.S. intelligence was watching one of the hijackers months in advance.

CNN senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): On September 11, from the flight deck of United Airlines Flight 93, this was the voice of Ziad Jarrah:

ZIAD JARRAH: Here's the captain. I would like to ask you to remain seated. There is a bomb onboard, and we are going back to the airport. And our demand is to please remain quiet.

MACVICAR: After a fight between the passengers and the hijackers, Flight 93 crashed into a field in Pennsylvania, killing 44 people. Investigators now believe the plane was heading for the White House.

Ziad Jarrah was the hijacker-pilot, a key conspirator. Could he have been stopped?

In Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, there is evidence that an intelligence agency was apprehensive enough about Jarrah months before September 11 to track some of his travels and arrange for him to be interrogated here. U.S. officials, U.A.E. officials and other intelligence and security sources do agree on one thing: Ziad Jarrah was stopped, here at the Dubai Airport, nearly nine months before September 11.

That's where the accounts begin to differ. U.A.E. government and Middle Eastern and European intelligence sources tell CNN the agency that picked up Jarrah's trail was the Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA.

This is how those sources tell the story:

(on camera): It was late January, 2001. Here in Dubai, the CIA told officials of the United Arab Emirates that Ziad Jarrah would shortly be arriving from Pakistan, and they wanted him stopped for questioning. U.A.E. officials say they were told the CIA was interested because Jarrah was, quote, "suspected of involvement in terrorist activities."

(voice-over): That's not the way they tell the story at CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. A CIA spokesman vigorously denied the CIA had known anything about Ziad Jarrah before September 11, or had anything to do with his questioning in Dubai, saying, quote, "that is flatly untrue."

The CIA says the first it learned that Jarrah was stopped was in a cable from CIA officers in the U.A.E. after September 11. Senior U.A.E. government officials told of the CIA's denials, continue to say that Jarrah was questioned at the request of the U.S. Both the U.S. and the U.A.E. acknowledge the relationship between the two countries' intelligence services is extremely close.

Senior U.A.E. government officials told of the CIA's denials, continue to say that Jarrah was questioned at the request of the U.S.

By January, 2001, as we know now, Ziad Jarrah had already spent six months in the United States learning to fly. In his passport was a valid multiple-entry U.S. visa -- this fragment found at the crash site of flight 93. And investigators confirm that he had just spent at least three weeks that January at an al Qaeda training camp.

U.A.E. officials insist it was those travels that interested the U.S.

CARGLINE FARAJ, CNN.COM ARABIC: According to the information they got from the U.S., was that he stayed in Pakistan for three months. So they wanted to know what, exactly, was he doing, and whether he was also in Afghanistan.

MACVICAR: On January 30, 2001, onboard a Pakistan Airways flight from Peshawar, Ziad Jarrah arrived in Dubai. He was in transit, heading for Europe.

(on camera): U.A.E. sources say that, in a telephone call from the U.S. embassy in Abu Dhabi, they were asked to intercept Ziad Jarrah to find out where he had been in Afghanistan, and how long he had been there.

The questioning of Jarrah in Dubai fits the pattern of a CIA operation described to CNN by U.A.E. and European sources. These sources say that in 1999 the CIA began an operation to track suspected al Qaeda operatives as they transited there. (voice-over): One of these sources provided this drawing, showing the airport layout, and described how people wanted for questioning were intercepted, most often at a transit desk.

As was the case with Ziad Jarrah, CNN sources say U.A.E. officials were often told in advance by American officials who was coming in, and whom they wanted questioned.

U.S. officials declined to comment on whether the CIA operated this way at Dubai Airport.

In January, 2001, Ziad Jarrah was released after questioning. A senior U.A.E. source says U.S. officials were informed of the results of his interrogation while Jarrah was still in the airport. He was released, they say, because U.S. officials indicated they were satisfied.

Again, the spokesman for the CIA denies any such contact.

Senior U.A.E. sources say because Jarrah was in transit, U.A.E. security had no interest in questioning him for its own purposes.

In the early hours of January 31, 2001, Ziad Jarrah caught his KLM flight back to Europe, and from January to September, he traveled to the U.S., to Lebanon, to Germany, and back to the U.S. There is no sign he was ever again on the radar screen of any intelligence agency.

AIR TRAFFIC: It's United 93 calling. United 93, I understand you have a bomb onboard.

MACVICAR: On the morning of September 11, Ziad Jarrah took over the controls of United Flight 93 and turned the plane towards Washington.

It was only the heroic actions of the passengers which prevented him from reaching his target.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACVICAR: Wolf, the question, of course, is whether or not this represents a missed opportunity, something that investigators, particularly those on the Hill in Washington, will be taking a look at -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Sheila, was there -- any of this information, was it ever passed on to other intelligence agencies?

MACVICAR: We know that Ziad Jarrah left Dubai Airport on the morning of the 31st of January, 2001. He was on a KLM flight; he went to Amsterdam, on to Hamburg. And we know that he then continued to travel extensively.

There is no evidence, we are told from talking to intelligence contacts in Europe and the Middle East and elsewhere, that he was ever again challenged at any airport; no evidence that any other intelligence agency or law enforcement agency ever had reason to be concerned about Ziad Jarrah.

So whatever happened in Dubai does not seem to have be passed on -- I'm sorry.

BLITZER: And just to be precise on this one dispute between the CIA and officials in Dubai, there are several intelligence organizations, as you and our viewers well know, here in the United States: the CIA, the DIA, the NSA.

Are they sure it was the CIA, as opposed to some other U.S. government intelligence organization?

MACVICAR: We have talked to all the U.S. organizations which could possibly have been involved in an operation like this, and they have suggested to us that there is one address that we should be looking at, and that is the CIA.

In addition to that, in addition to our sources in the U.A.E., we have also talked particularly to European intelligence sources who have told us that this was a CIA operation.

BLITZER: OK, Sheila MacVicar, excellent reporting. Thanks for doing all that work for us.

And let's get some reaction now from the vice chairman of the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee.

Alabama Republican Richard Shelby is joining me now, live from Capitol Hill.

What do you make, Senator, of that piece of reporting by Sheila?

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: Well, I can't comment on whether it's true or not, Wolf, but it's a troubling story that I have just seen on CNN.

This will be part of our investigation that's being done now by the Senate and the House Intelligence Committees. And since this report is out, if our investigators are not onto that -- and I'm not saying they are or they're not -- they certainly will be, because if this is true, then it could be a missed opportunity. I can't confirm the truth of it at this point.

BLITZER: Is there -- have there been any other cases, though, that you've come up in terms of your own investigation of the CIA, and looking back for potential missed opportunities where there were some glaring omissions that possibly could have changed the outcome of September 11?

SHELBY: Well, I've said before that, as we look back and do a post mortem -- and we're not through with our investigation by a long shot -- but I look back at the Phoenix memo, that you're familiar with, dealing with the flight schools, and then the Moussaoui case that's now pending in court and the activities of the FBI in Minnesota.

If you take those by themselves, I think those were big, big missed opportunities.

If this is true, this would be another one. We can't confirm that yet.

BLITZER: All right Senator, thank you so much for spending some time with us and updating us on that, getting some reaction to Sheila MacVicar's reporting.

Let's go back to Los Angeles County; some more information on those missing girls that have been found safe and sound.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

ASST. SHERIFF LARRY WALDIE, LOS ANGELES COUNTY: This was -- I don't have the exact time of this. It had to be shortly -- about 15 minutes prior to the first news conference I had with you out here, because as I was preparing I was getting phone calls regarding this information that had just gone down from Kern County sheriff and California Highway Patrol.

QUESTION: Overall you must be gratified with the way things turned out, sir?

WALDIE: Always gratified. But, you know, we're never gratified when a life is -- suspect, yes, he is a suspect.

But the trauma that goes on the part of officers when they take a life is great, and hopefully we don't have to end them like that.

We're gratified mostly that the girls are safe. That's the most important thing.

QUESTION: Do you know more about the girls' physical and mental conditions?

WALDIE: No, I do not know that. We're going to wait for the parents to deal with that. I think it's more important for the parents to get up there, embrace their children and then deal with the psychological, the emotional and all that stuff with them, and then we'll talk to the girls -- our detectives -- after that occurs.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: .. or he was shot by one of the officers?

WALDIE: We do not -- no, I believe he was shot by one of the officers.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: I don't know.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: I have no knowledge.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: There were several spots. I think I was told an animal control officer from Kern County actually spotted the vehicle and notified Kern County sheriff, and they went in and made contact with him. And once they made contact, then he ran.

QUESTION: What do you have -- what information do you have about the suspect -- age, his city?

WALDIE: I don't have that with me. There will be a handout on that with his picture for all that information.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: The warrant was a warrant out of Kern County for $3 million, and it was for 261PC, which is a charge of rape.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) for those of us who joined you late in the news conference?

WALDIE: Just basically that they were notified by an animal control officer, that he had spotted the vehicle. And they called the Kern County sheriff; he responded. They spotted the vehicle, attempted to stop it. It did not stop. They went in pursuit, short pursuit. It crashed. No serious injuries, as I understand it. He fled, leaving the two kids there. And they secured the kids, and then went after the suspect, and the shooting occurred.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Kern County sheriff?

WALDIE: Kern County sheriff.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: No, CHP assistant.

QUESTION: What about the girls? What about the girls? What about their condition, how they were found, what condition they were found in?

WALDIE: I don't have that information.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

WALDIE: Well, we'll get them up there, get the parents up there, and if they want to come back with us on our plane, we will certainly accord them that. I think it'd be good to have them home.

QUESTION: Mr. Waldie, your complete name again?

WALDIE: My name is Larry L. Waldie -- W-A-L-D-I-E, and I am the assistant sheriff.

OK, thanks. All right.

BLITZER: A little bit more information from the Assistant Sheriff Larry Waldie reporting on some more information on those two young teenage girls safe and sound, apprehended, found about 100 miles away from Los Angeles County in Kern County, California.

A shootout between the suspect in this particular case, a suspect identified as Larry (sic) Ratliff, who is wanted on other rape charges. Larry (sic) Ratliff, $3 million warrant out there for his arrest.

He was shot -- Roy Ratliff. Roy Ratliff was shot and killed according to the police, the assistant sheriff, Larry Waldie, shot and killed in that shootout. Both girls are safe and sound, fortunately -- both girls are safe and sound, fortunately.

Let's move on now and talk about some reports, some other news that we've been following. A very busy day in the world of news.

Five Americans, as you probably know by now, were among the seven people killed when a bomb ripped through a cafeteria at Jerusalem's Hebrew University yesterday. Now the bodies of two of the victims are being brought home.

Our John Vause, he's on the scene, and he reports from Ben Gurion Airport.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The day after the blast at the Hebrew University, and two Americans who were killed are now heading home. The coffins were loaded onto the El Al plane for a 12-hour flight to New York.

In those coffins, the bodies of Janis Coulter, 36, and Benjamin Blutstein, 25. Janis had arrived in Israel the day before the blast. She had brought with her 19 American students who were going to study over the summer at the Hebrew University. She was in the canteen with some of those students at the time of the blast.

Benjamin Blutstein was finishing a two-year study program at the Hebrew University. He was due to travel home to see his family in Pennsylvania. No one could imagine that he would be traveling home under these circumstances.

In all, five Americans and two Israelis were killed in that blast. One will be buried in Jerusalem on Friday, two others will be flown home on Saturday.

For its part, Hamas is now saying that it is not targeting Americans, that the Hamas fighter did not ask to see student identification cards. However, the U.S. ambassador to Israel said in a ceremony here that this represents the shared values between Israel and the United States -- shared values of religious tolerance and of freedom, of democracies; values which the terrorists, he said, are trying to kill.

John Vause, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thank you John.

The carnage on campus and the involvement of U.S. citizens has sparked rage at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): A day after seven people were killed in a bombing at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, five of them Americans, President Bush met with Jordan's King Abdullah in the Oval Office and minced no words.

BUSH: I'm just as angry as Israel is right now. I'm furious that innocent life is lost.

BLITZER: Israeli officials are making no secret of their determination to retaliate, and President Bush wasn't offering any resistance.

BUSH: Israel must defend herself.

BLITZER: Despite his anger, the president insisted peace was still possible, and he again made clear Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat should step aside.

BUSH: Now there are some who say, well, you know, there's only one person that can conceivably make this happen for the Palestinians. I just simply don't believe that.

BLITZER: And using the meeting to reaffirm his call for regime change in Baghdad, Mr. Bush said Saddam Hussein must go as well.

BUSH: Saddam Hussein is a man who poisons his own people, who threatens his neighbors, who develops weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And another potential U.S. war with Iraq. How many American casualties could be expected? We'll examine that just ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

And later, why his Secretary of State Colin Powell singing his heart out again?

(SINGING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has been looking into a possible military campaign to topple Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein, but in two days of hearings there have only been a few references to the potential loss of life among U.S. forces.

While the American public has come to expect minimal casualties from war, there's no assurances that this would be the case next time around. More now from CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Before the 1991 Persian Gulf War, 20,000 body bags were reading for U.S. casualties, but the Iraqi military quickly folded and the total combat deaths numbered only 148. But this time U.S. troops may face a much tougher task, potentially fighting Saddam Hussein's most loyal troops in the dangerous urban battle zone of Baghdad. Military experts warn casualties could be much higher.

ANTHONY CORDESMAN, CTR. FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES: Only fools would bet the lives of other men's sons and daughters upon their own arrogance, and call this force a cakewalk or a speed bump or something that you can dismiss.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say there are no firm casualty estimates yet, largely because there is no firm plan yet. But in the past, computer models used to generate the estimates have run high.

For instance, in the 1999 NATO air war in Yugoslavia, the Pentagon warned 12 planes might be lost. Only two U.S. planes were shot down, and no pilots were lost.

In the 1988 air attacks in Iraq, again, prewar projections said 10 planes were likely to be lost, but none was.

But estimating casualties for ground troops is harder. In Afghanistan only 18 Americans have been killed as a result of hostile fire. But that's because Afghan fighters did a lot of the fighting, especially early on. In Iraq, casualties could be much higher if Saddam Hussein, when cornered, resorts to deadly germs or chemicals without regard to the fate of his own people.

DAVID PHILLIPS, COUNCIL ON FOR. RELATIONS: I think that it's also quite possible that Saddam Hussein would be looking to martyr himself and to secure his place in history.

MCINTYRE: The most optimistic scenario is an 11th hour military coup, once it's clear the U.S. is coming. That could result in no casualties.

REND RAHIM FRANCKE, IRAQ FOUNDATION: There's a very slight -- strong likelihood that some group of army officers will stage a coup.

MCINTYRE (on camera): Of course, the number of casualties depends a lot on the success of the war plan. Pentagon sources tell CNN that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is still not satisfied that the options drawn up by the military are innovative enough. So sources say he's asked for them to be reworked before President Bush is briefed. Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And the number is up to five. That's five murder investigations now going on at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. Just what's going on? We'll go live to Fort Bragg in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. An Army wife has been charged with murdering her husband in what officials suspect is the fifth domestic homicide at Fort Bragg, North Carolina in just six weeks. It is causing concern among officials at the fort as well as police in the surrounding town of Fayetteville.

For more, we are joined now by Colonel Tad Davis, the Fort Bragg garrison commander; and Sergeant Alex Thompson of the Fayetteville Police Department. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us.

And, Colonel Davis, first to you, this is shocking what's going on. It can't just be coincidence. What is going on there?

COL. TAD DAVIS, FT. BRAGG GARRISON COMMANDER: Well, Wolf, we're extremely saddened by the recent events here in Fort Bragg and the local community of Fayetteville. These are the sons and daughters of America. We take our responsibility for their safety extremely seriously. We're committed to investigating each and every one of these cases thoroughly, determining what we can do to improve our programs, and more importantly, reaching to those in the community that might still need assistance.

BLITZER: But, Colonel, have you seen anything like this at any base that you're familiar with, where there have been so many domestic homicides in such a short period of time?

DAVIS: Not at all, Wolf. This is certainly something extremely out of the ordinary. But, obviously, we are concerned. It is very serious. And we're working as hard as we can to get to the bottom of each and every one of these incidents.

BLITZER: And several of these soldiers were special operations troops, who some of them just back from Afghanistan. Do you suspect, Colonel, that there's a connection there?

DAVIS: We've looked very closely at that, Wolf, as we've conducted the preliminary parts of our investigation. And we do not believe at this point in time that there is any connection to the service that they may or may not have had in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: Why do you say that, Colonel, because these men, as you know, are under enormous stress when they go into combat. They're away. They're isolated for long periods of time. They come back and perhaps something happens.

DAVIS: Certainly, Wolf. What you need to remember is that prior to 9/11, on the 8th and 9th of September, we had over 3,000 soldiers deployed in 30 countries around the world from here at Ft. Bragg. Since then, we have had several thousand more deployed, returned and deployed again. And so, we take those deployments and the readiness for those deployments, and we work very hard to ensure that not only our soldiers, you know, but our families are ready to go as well.

BLITZER: All right. Let me bring in Sergeant Thompson, the police chief who is investigating these homicides as well. Any connection between these five homicides, Sergeant?

SGT. ALEX THOMPSON, FAYETTEVILLE POLICE: Not that the Fayetteville Police Department has found. Certainly, the last that we've had, Major David Shannon (ph), was an isolated incident, just plain violence. And, of course, the other four that the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office and the Fayetteville Police Department share are domestic related.

BLITZER: These are shocking statistics, five murders in six weeks. You have been around Fayetteville, Fort Bragg, for a long time. Anything like this cross your agenda ever?

THOMPSON: I haven't seen anything like this myself in 10 and a half years. Certainly, it is shocking and we are concerned about it.

BLITZER: So, what's your initial assumption? What's going on here, Sergeant?

THOMPSON: I don't believe we're making any type of assumptions at this point and time. I believe that there are military analysts and psychologists as well as law enforcement officials that are looking into it. But, certainly nothing at a great level at this point in time.

BLITZER: Colonel Davis, spousal abuse within the military, how serious of a problem is that? I used to cover the Pentagon, and I know it's not a new issue. It's been around for some time.

DAVIS: Well, spousal abuse is an important concern throughout the entire country. And we certainly take, you know, our responsibility for preventing and, if necessary, treatment of those individuals that are involved in any sort of spouse abuse.

And I'd like to just kind of reach out to those soldiers we have got deployed around the world from Fort Bragg and let them know that we're working as hard as we can back here at home to assist their families. And in the cases there may be others out there that need assistance, we would ask that they contact us so we can, in fact, be of help to them.

BLITZER: Colonel, what specifically are you doing right now to make sure no one else is murdered on your base?

DAVIS: Well, obviously, there's a heightened awareness on the part of leaders in every level with regard to potential, you know, tensions among the many families that we have here. And we've got over 45,000 soldiers here at Fort Bragg, over 26,000 families. So, it's quite a large population. But I think we're up to the task and we're working as hard as we can through our unit chains of command, but also through the all important family readiness groups, which are the support groups here in the military that our spouses are involved in both before, during and after deployments. And they act as a very, very important outreach program to our spouses that are in the community.

BLITZER: A painful, painful subject that we're talking about. Colonel Davis, Sergeant Thompson, thanks to both of you for joining us and talking about what's going on. Sad story at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. Appreciate it very much.

In a moment, the story of the day, two girls kidnapped and freed from their captor. We'll update you when we come back.

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BLITZER: And updating you now on our top story, those two teenage girls who were abducted late last night at gunpoint in Los Angeles County, safe and sound, apprehended by California law enforcement authority. The suspect in this particular case, an individual called Roy Ratliff, wanted by Las Vegas authorities on rape charges, was shot and killed by police in the course of saving these two young women. We'll have much more on this throughout the evening.

But let's go to Lou Dobbs now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour -- Lou.

LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you very much. As you said, two teenage girls were found safe hours after they had been kidnapped in California at gunpoint. We will have the very latest for you, live reports from California on what's turned out to be a very happy ending for those young ladies.

Two former WorldCom executives today arrested, two days after the president signed the most sweeping corporate reform legislation in almost a half-century. We'll have that report for you.

And tonight on "The Dobbs List," I'll be talking with Jeremy Siegel, author of "Stocks For the Long Run." Siegel argues that despite all of the pain, stocks remain the best long-term investing. All of that and a great deal coming up at the top of the hour. Please join us. Now back to Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Lou.

That's all the time we have today. But we leave you with some amazing video. The Secretary of State Colin Powell singing. The secretary of state singing. That's not the secretary of state singing. Here he is, the secretary of state singing.

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