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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
VP Takes Tough Stance Against Hussein; Weaver Named a Suspect in Case of Kidnapped, Killed Oregon Girls; Doctors Debate Obesity' Cause
Aired August 26, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: target Saddam. The vice president vows action, while many counsel caution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This nation will not live at the mercy of terrorists or terror regimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: America at war, why thousands of reservists may be in for the long haul. Oregon horror: Uncovering evidence in the mystery of two missing girls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a great dancer and she always wanted to be a model.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And food fights, diet doctors dual over America's epidemic of obesity, fat, carbs, and calories.
It's Monday, August 26, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN Center in Atlanta.
We begin with fighting words from the man who has the president's ear, the Vice President Dick Cheney. Today, he made the administration's strongest case yet for war with Saddam Hussein and he addressed the critics point by point by point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): Vice President Dick Cheney minced no words in responding to the critics who are urging a go slow approach toward Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
CHENEY: Deliverable weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a terror network or a murderous dictator or the two working together constitutes as grave a threat as can be imagined. The risks of inaction are far greater than the risks of action.
BLITZER: Addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Cheney drew this lesson from the terror attacks of last September.
CHENEY: If the United States could have preempted 9/11, we would have; no question. Should we be able to prevent another much more devastating attack, we will; no question. This nation will not live at the mercy of terrorists or terror regimes.
BLITZER: His tough talk was significant coming just as several advisers to the first President Bush have come out against the preemptive strike.
LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Until I know for sure, until we know at least with some confidence that we must act now, then I say we need to be very careful about going forward.
BLITZER: Former Bush Secretary of States James Baker writing Sunday in the New York Times says the U.S. needs international support. "We should try our best not to have to go it alone and the president should reject the advice of those who counsel doing so." But Cheney argues the U.S. can not wait for Saddam Hussein to make the first move.
CHENEY: If we did wait until that moment, Saddam would simply be emboldened and it would become even harder for us to gather friends and allies to oppose him.
BLITZER: Brent Scowcroft the first President Bush's national security adviser recently wrote in the Wall Street Journal: "An attack on Iraq at this time would seriously jeopardize, if not destroy, the global counterterrorist campaign we have undertaken." To that, Cheney offered this response:
CHENEY: I believe the opposite is true.
BLITZER: Removing Saddam Hussein, he says, would help the war on terror and offer other immediate benefits.
CHENEY: Extremists in the region would have to rethink their strategy of jihad. Moderates throughout the region would take heart and our ability to advance the Israeli-Palestinian peace process would be enhanced, just as it was following the liberation of Kuwait in 1991.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: White House lawyers have concluded the president does not need additional approval from Congress to attack Iraq. A senior administration official cites a congressional resolution passed in advance of the 1991 Persian Gulf War, along with a September 14 resolution approving military action against terrorism. The official concedes that political considerations may lead the White House to consult closely with Congress on whatever actions it decides to take.
Meantime, the Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, is warning the president not to treat a possible war with Iraq "like a technicality." Through a spokesman Leahy says a vigorous debate would be for the good of the country.
After September 11, President Bush warned the war against terrorism would go on for quite some time, and now some Americans from all walks of life are learning that they're in for the long haul. Fourteen thousand Air Force Reserve and National Guard personnel are being told to expect another year on active duty.
Let's go live to CNN's Martin Savidge. He's over at the Dobbins Air Reserve Base here in Georgia.
What's the mood over there, Marty?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The mood is still very upbeat, very positive. In fact, a lot of the reservists here not that surprised by the information that they are getting. In fact, word began going out to the 14,000 reservists of the extended year of duty about a little over a week ago. It had been in the planning for a lot longer than that, getting all the ideas coming in from military commanders.
As we say, they're not that surprised because the war on terror is by a long shot not over in many people's minds and the job that these reservists are providing is a very vital one. For the most part here at Dobbins Air Reserve Base, like other military installations, those reservists are providing security, not only at military installations in the United States, but also around the world.
They are part of Operation Noble Eagle, which is protecting the home front or part of Operation Enduring Freedom, which is the war on terror. Still, their commanding officers know that the additional time is no less a hardship.
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BRIG. GEN. WILLIAM KANE, COMMANDER, DOBBINS ARB: Some of them have lost money. In fact, they make substantially less money here with the reserves than they do with their principal companies. Some companies are very, very generous and make up their salary. Some are not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Now, we talked to a number of reservists. They admit that the additional time will be problematic for some of them but they also say that there is a payoff. Here's how they talked about the job that needs to be done.
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STAFF SGT. CARL BERGHULT, AIR FORCE RESERVE: It's good. I mean I'm in the reserves. This is what you know I expected when this all went down and I'm just happy to be here and proud to serve.
` AIRMAN DOMENIQUE JAMES, AIR FORCE RESERVE: I was preparing to go back to school. It changes things. I just have to put school off a little bit but that's the only difference. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE (on camera): Brigadier General Kane here at Dobbins Air Reserve Base says he sees the one-year addition of time as a stop gap measure. Essentially it would allow for more permanent security measures to be put in place for military installations across the country and around the world. This is not an indefinite call to duty for the reservists he says -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Marty, I take it that all this talk of war suggests that if there is going to be a war, a lot more than those 14,000 reservists are going to find themselves on active duty. Is that a sense you're getting over at Dobbins?
SAVIDGE: Well that was one of the unanswered questions really here. Is the extended duty also an indication that maybe there is more military action yet to come? As you know, there are about 76,000 reservists that were called up after September 11, over a quarter of a million that were called up for the Persian Gulf War. As you say, the numbers would have to go higher, but some wonder if holding on to those reservists on active duty now indicates another plan in the works. Wolf.
BLITZER: Martin Savidge at Dobbins Air Reserve Base here in Georgia, thank you very much. And in another bid to stop terrorists before they can do damage, United States Customs inspectors are being deployed outside North America, their mission; identify containers the terrorists might be trying to get into the United States. For the first time, inspectors are at work in the Dutch Port of Rotterdam and may soon be operating in some 20 other ports in Europe and Asia.
He was the subject of a worldwide manhunt in recent days, now a young Saudi man is being held by authorities in his homeland. The FBI wants to question him in connection with the September 11 attacks but as CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena reports, that's a matter of some delicacy.
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KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Saud Al- Rasheed is in Saudi custody. After the FBI issued an international alert, his family says he flew from Egypt to Riyadh and turned himself in.
DALE WATSON, FBI EXECUTIVE ASST. DIR.: We're glad that he is one not in the United States but at the same time we are thankful that he is with some other folks overseas. We will assess that information and see exactly what he had or has not to do with anything that involves terrorism against the United States.
ARENA: Specifically, September 11. Al-Rasheed's picture was found on a CD-ROM in Pakistan along with pictures of four hijackers, but the Saudis are not promising the FBI will get to question him directly, and say any terrorism charges will be heard in an Islamic court. KEN ADELMAN, FMR. ARMS CONTROL DIR.: If it's like in the past, the Saudis will block the FBI from doing anything effective. That's what they did in the 1990s when the FBI tried to investigate the blowing up of Khobar Towers and other crimes that have been involving Saudi Arabia over the years.
ARENA: FBI officials would only say that the Saudis have been cooperative, but diplomatic sources concede the relationship is delicate, not helped by the fact that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi.
A lawsuit filed by the families of September 11 victims alleges in the late '90s some members of the Saudi royal family paid Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda protection money not to attack Saudi targets. And despite Saudi denials, critics allege money from Saudi charities is being funneled to Palestinian terrorists.
MATT LEVITT, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: The issue of Saudi tolerance of incitement towards participation in international terrorism has been at the forefront of our foreign policy discourse for over a year now.
ARENA: Saudi Arabia's cabinet accuses some western media of a "smear campaign."
ARENA (on camera): Cooperation in the war on terror is sure to be discussed when Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar meets with President Bush Tuesday in Texas.
Kelli Arena CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The gruesome killings of two Oregon teens, bodies found, now the search for a killer intensifies. Will police move in on a suspect? Plus, an apparent security failure at one of the world's busiest airports, how might a woman have gotten a loaded gun on a plane.
And Americans growing bigger by the day, what's the right diet for a nation eating out of control. Atkins versus Ornish, fats against carbs, the debate over what you're putting in your mouth. But first, our "Weekend Snapshot."
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BLITZER (voice-over): A weekend of demonstrations, including this Freedom of Expression march ahead of the United Nations Earth Summit in South Africa. With delegates from 200 governments gathering in Johannesburg to discuss development and the environment, a wide variety of activists were trying to make their voices heard.
A fuel truck wreck sets shops and apartments on fire in Sydney, Australia. The flames were dramatic but there were no serious injuries. A new arrival at Sea World in Florida, a bouncing baby killer whale; the baby arrived yesterday morning but it doesn't have a name yet. No one's gotten close enough to tell whether it's a boy or a girl. Welcome to the annual Notting Hill Carnival.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Best carnival in the world.
BLITZER: The London neighborhood popularized in the Julia Roberts, Hugh Grant movie holds an annual Caribbean-style carnival that attracts floats, dancers, and a wide variety of eye-catching costumes.
A team from Louisville, Kentucky edged the Japanese team 1-0 to win the Little League World Series. It's the first time a U.S. team has won the series since 1998. Pitcher Aaron Alvey not only fanned 11 batters, he hit the winning homerun.
If you think crop circles are hard to explain, how about this. Three weeks after vanishing from the number one spot, the Mel Gibson science fiction film "Signs" made a sudden reappearance as the weekend's top movie.
And that's our "Weekend Snapshot."
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BLITZER: For the first time, an Oregon man is being called the suspect in the disappearance of two teenage girls. One of the girl's remains were found Saturday on Ward Weaver's property and an autopsy is underway on a second set of remains found yesterday.
CNN's Rusty Dornin is keeping track of the story in Oregon City. She joins us now live -- Rusty.
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there are hopes that the autopsy that's ongoing right now. Those results will be available sometime this afternoon and it is suspected that those remains will be identified as 13-year-old Ashley Pond who disappeared in January. Now the FBI came out a short time ago. They told us they haven't quite finished processing but expect to finish soon processing and searching the property that was rented by 39-year-old Ward Weaver.
Now he called himself a prime suspect months ago but the police refuse to call him a suspect in this case, despite the fact several relatives and neighbors kept pointing to this man as a suspect in the disappearance of these girls.
Now a lot of folks here are angry about the fact that it has taken so long. Ashley Pond disappeared in January. Miranda Gaddis disappeared in March. It is now August and they are disappointed it's taken this long; however, relatives of one of the girls say they are happy with the investigation.
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WESLEY DUFFEY, GADDIS' GRANDFATHER: I know for a fact that if they do it and do it wrong that whatever they find is useless to them, so I have a lot of confidence in them and they say they took the time they needed and did it right and I believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now meantime you're looking at the makeshift memorial that was -- this fence is actually erected around the house to keep crowds out. It has now become the memorial for the two girls. Hundreds of folks are bringing flowers and teddy bears and candles and notes to the two girls.
Neighbors here, of course, have been very upset about this since this happened. But Miranda Gaddis' aunt says it was still a very big shock when they received the news that her remains had been discovered on Saturday.
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TERRY DUFFEY, GADDIS' AUNT: Miranda, I'm still waiting for her to pop through the door and say quit crying, I'm right here, you know. She's beautiful and she's wonderful and she's going to be in our hearts forever and I'm just sad that this happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DORNIN: Now Ward Weaver is in jail right now on an unrelated charge. He's charged with attempting to rape the girlfriend of his son about two weeks ago. Apparently it was then that this son reportedly had called a police dispatcher and claimed that his father had kidnapped and murdered these two young girls.
In about less than an hour, the District Attorney's Office in Clockemus (ph) County is scheduled to hold a press conference, where they will release a brief statement. It could be -- he has not been charged yet. The possibility is that they will announce that Ward Weaver is being charged in these deaths. Wolf.
BLITZER: Rusty Dornin in Oregon City covering the story for us, thank you very much. There's shock and there's sadness, those are among the prevailing emotions of course in Oregon City as the town keeps track of these late developments in the case. The girls' families are asking for privacy as they deal with their grief.
With us now from Portland is Stephen Engelberg. He's the managing editor of "The Oregonian." Steve thanks for joining us. First of all, do you have any advance word on what we can expect to hear from the D.A. within an hour or so?
STEPHEN ENGELBERG, "THE OREGONIAN": No, I'm afraid I don't but I think the speculation that we'll see some charges shortly is pretty solid.
BLITZER: It is pretty solid. How is the community dealing with this shocking case because it's so strange on so many different levels in addition to being so sad, of course.
ENGELBERG: Well, it's a very bizarre thing. I mean this is a murder investigation in which the chief suspect, as it now appears, called attention to himself. His relatives called attention to him. You know long before Ward Weaver's house was searched, the name was in our newspaper and many other media outlets here. You know he became a national figure.
If you think about it, it's a very, very unusual case and yet it had a kind of air of unreality, and I think on Saturday as we saw the medical examiner's truck wheel into that site, you know the reality was quite clear. This is about two little girls who were missing and people are in shock here. You know those of us who have children are facing a very difficult task of trying to explain what this means and what to make of it.
BLITZER: Is there a history here with Ward Weaver? He's in jail right now supposedly for raping the girlfriend of his son, but is there anything else that points to this kind of behavior?
ENGELBERG: Well he has a violent past. Until now, it's not involved sexual abuse. You know he had had a situation where he was angry with a babysitter with one of his kids and he attacked the babysitter with a cement block, served several years in prison for that. You know two of his ex-wives have restraining orders on him, one of whom saying that he beat her with a skillet.
So this is not what you would call a gentle fellow but you know, I don't think that there was anything specific in his past that said he was a sex offender and there were a number of sex offenders near that complex who were also on the suspect list earlier on.
BLITZER: So is that why the police have been so slow in actually arresting him or indicting him?
ENGELBERG: Well, of course, they need evidence and until this search was done, what they had was speculation and rumor and you know now they have very solid evidence that links him to this case, although at this moment, I think there are still a lot of unanswered questions. We don't really know what he has to say about this. He has not, at least as of now, spoken to authorities.
He's spoken to his lawyer and we quoted him in our newspaper on Saturday, the lawyer that is, as saying that his motive was he was letting them search the property voluntarily to bring closure to the families. But there is, as far as we know, no statement or explanation as to what happened, who else might have been involved if anybody, who buried the bodies there. Was it all himself? Did he have help? All that is still very much up in the air.
BLITZER: And we'll continue to monitor the story of course and we'll watch, see what happens within an hour or so when the D.A. comes forward and speaks to reporters. Stephen Engelberg of "The Oregonian," thanks for joining us.
ENGELBERG: A pleasure.
BLITZER: Thank you. And authorities say she tried to board a plane with a loaded .357 handgun. What might have gone wrong in one of the world's busiest airports, a live report coming up. Plus, the anthrax investigation is it back to square one? The FBI retraces its steps to find a killer. And suicide soaring on college campuses, why so many young people are taking their own lives, stay with us.
Which state has the highest prevalence of obesity? Texas, Mississippi, Pennsylvania, Alabama? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Security at airports in the United States is supposed to be tighter now almost one year after the September 11 terrorist attacks but there's another example of yet another possible security breach, this one involving a loaded handgun discovered in a carry-on bag. CNN National Correspondent Gary Tuchman is over at the Atlanta Airport with the latest developments in this very strange case. Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, hello to you. A 37-year-old woman from Huntersville, North Carolina is free on bond this afternoon after allegedly carrying a loaded handgun up through security at the Philadelphia International Airport yesterday.
She was arrested yesterday, made her first appearance in court today for an initial appearance before a federal magistrate judge. She was released on bond and told to come back in two weeks for a probable cause hearing, but the Feds say that this woman, Nancy Keller, was going from Philadelphia to Salisbury, Maryland on Maryland's eastern shore in a U.S. Airways commuter yesterday from Philadelphia.
She was going through security. When she went through, she put her black carry-on bag on the belt through the X-rays. Her bag was deemed to be suspicious. A Philadelphia police officer opened the bag, found her clothes, her personal belongings, and a .357 magnum handgun fully loaded with 12 rounds. In addition, another magazine was found, fully loaded, 12 more rounds.
Now this woman says the bag wasn't hers, the gun wasn't hers. She said they were both her husband's and that she did not know she was carrying the guns. Now the first thing you might think, good news, that Philadelphia security officials found the gun; and indeed that is good. But what is disturbing is what might have happened earlier in the day because this was her second flight.
She was connecting in Philadelphia, actually had some time, and that's why she left the secure area to go through security again, but she started here at Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport on a 6:50 a.m. flight on U.S. Airways so she had to go through security here. And if her story is true, that she was carrying this bag the whole time that she did not know she had the gun, that means she went through security here and that no one here in Atlanta spotted the gun.
Now we don't know for sure if that's what's happened. It appears that's what's happened and right now officials here in Atlanta say they are investigating the possibility that a gun made it through security without being spotted. We want to tell you she did tell officials yesterday it was her husband's gun. Today when she was leaving court, Nancy Keller was asked by a reporter if she had the gun of a relative and her quote was: "Something like that." Wolf back to you.
BLITZER: Gary Tuchman with a very strange story indeed, thank you very much.
Free at last after 17 years, DNA clears a man convicted of rape and murder. How a false confession landed an innocent man in prison. Also, the search for the anthrax killer goes back to the "National Inquirer's" headquarters. Find out what investigators are looking for. And battle of the bulge, protein, carbs, and a growing American waistline, we'll hear from both sides of the food debate. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
Coming up, the search for the anthrax killer goes back to basics, the latest in the investigation in just a moment but first a look at other stories making news right now.
Thanks to DNA evidence, Eddie Joe Lloyd is a free man after spending 17 years in prison for rape and murder. Lloyd was in a mental hospital and on medication when police say he confessed to raping and killing a 16-year-old girl in Detroit. Lloyd is the 110th convicted person in the United States to be exonerated by DNA testing.
At least three people were hurt in a Miami, Florida train accident this afternoon. A passenger train collided with a tractor- trailer truck, which, in turn, slammed into a car. Three people were in the car and they were injured. They're hospitalized in stable condition. Authorities say a backup of traffic forced the truck to stop on the tracks, and the approaching train was unable to stop.
Angry humanitarian groups in Norway are slicing away at McDonald's, their target, a new sandwich called the "McAfrica." Critics say the offering is poorly timed because millions of Africans are facing starvation. McDonald's countered that the sandwich is based on African recipes. Under a compromise plan reached with aid organizations, McDonald's will tell customers about the food problem in Southern Africa and what they can do to help.
There is a new development in the investigation into last year's anthrax killings. FBI agents are returning to a contaminated building in South Florida owned by a supermarket tabloid publisher. An American Media employee working in the building was killed by the anthrax bacteria last fall. CNN's Mark Potter is reporting from Boca Raton.
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MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As the FBI converged once again on the American Media building in Boca Raton, agents announced they would likely be here for two weeks. Officials say this second round of searches is part of the nationwide criminal investigation into the source of the anthrax attacks. The ultimate goal still is to find who killed photo editor, Robert Stevens and the others.
HECTOR PESQUERA, FBI: We hope that the evidence collected during the course of this investigation will help bring to justice the person or persons who committed this horrific act.
POTTER: FBI agents say, since the original search of AMI last year, they have developed new technologies for gathering and analyzing large amounts of anthrax. Their hope is, these methods can shed new light on whether anthrax here is linked to other cases in the Northeast and how anthrax entered the AMI building.
DWIGHT ADAMS, FBI LAB SUPERVISOR: We're looking for a dissemination device, such as a letter or letters, again to generate new leads for the investigation. And, finally, we're looking for large quantities of spores in order to chemically characterize those spores and compare them against the spores found in the Senator Leahy and Daschle letters.
POTTER: During the original search, law enforcement officials always suspected that anthrax came to AMI by way of a letter or more than one. But, a lot of company mail had already been thrown out and a suspect letter was never found. The new search will look for concentrations of anthrax, which may suggest where the letter came in and how it moved through the building. Investigators will focus most of their work on the mailroom. Florida's health secretary says, reopening the building can be done safely and will not harm anyone nearby.
DR. JOHN AGWUNDBI, FLORIDA HEALTH SECRETARY: I believe that we can rest assured that this process, this investigation, as it proceeds, places no Floridian at risk.
POTTER: As for the AMI building itself, the CEO says it's like the twilight zone inside, frozen in time from October when everyone left and the facility was quarantined.
(on-camera): Although the FBI has already taken control of the building again, search teams aren't scheduled to begin collecting samples until the end of the week. There will be tests and rehearsals before some 90 investigators go inside.
Mark Potter, CNN, Boca Raton, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Joining us now with some insight on this surprising development, the mayor of Boca Raton, Steven Abrams.
Mr. Mayor, thanks for joining us. How surprised were you by this latest twist?
MAYOR STEVEN ABRAMS, BOCA RATON, FLORIDA: How -- I'm sorry, Wolf? How surprised...
BLITZER: How surprised were you by this latest development? ABRAMS: Well, the FBI has been coordinating with the city, so we've been apprised of the fact that they wanted to reenter the building and frankly, the city welcomes it because we think it's some measure of progress in the criminal investigation of this case.
BLITZER: This must be so frustrating for you and your community, a community I know quite well -- to see what's going on there. How are your people reacting?
ABRAMS: Well, we'd like this entire episode to be over with. We've certainly recovered down here in Boca Raton, but we still have the building. We still have the person who did this at large and so we'd like the criminal investigation to go forward. And then, we'd like to see the clean up of the building so that we can put this entirely behind us.
BLITZER: Realistically speaking, Mr. Mayor, will that building ever be reopened?
ABRAMS: Well, I think if a clean up can occur -- and certainly, we've seen the cleanup progressing up in Washington at the Senate office building and in the post offices. We feel that it's certainly a usable building. It's in the middle of a gorgeous corporate office park, so there's been a lot of interest. It's very attractive, I think, and you know, if we have to put a couple of canaries in there to make sure that the process worked, so be it. But I think in the end, the technology is there to clean up the building and it certainly would be something that would be attractive to another corporate user.
BLITZER: All right, are people in your community angry over this very slow pace of this investigation?
ABRAMS: Well, it's not going as quickly as we would like, but we have to keep in mind this was the first bioterrorist incident in American history, and it's been a novel situation for every one concerned, the city and our residents but also the public health officials and the FBI. So we'd like the job to be finished as quickly as possible and we've been fighting for that. But we understand that it's a complicated crime and it's going to take all the resources available in order to track down all of the leads.
BLITZER: All right, Mayor Steven Abrams, the mayor of beautiful Boca Raton in Florida, thanks for joining us. Good luck in this investigation. I hope the matter is cleared up and clarified very, very quickly.
And the former government scientist, Steven Hatfill, is launching a new offensive against the U.S. government in what he says is a bid to clear his own name in the anthrax investigation. Hatfill is not even a suspect in the anthrax attacks that killed five people last year, but the attorney general, John Ashcroft, has named Hatfill a so- called "person of interest" in the government investigation.
In response, Hatfill has filed a formal complaint against Ashcroft for singling him out. Hatfill also is offering blood and handwriting samples to the FBI. Yesterday, he again lashed out at the government for what he called the "assassination" of his character.
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STEVEN HATFILL, FORMER GOVERNMENT SCIENTIST: I want to look my fellow Americans directly in the eye and declare to them, I am not the anthrax killer. I know nothing about the anthrax attacks. I had absolutely nothing to do with this terrible crime. My life is being destroyed by arrogant government bureaucrats who are peddling groundless innuendo and half information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Joining us in our Washington D.C. studio to talk more about this case is Skip Brandon. He's a former FBI deputy assistant director.
Mr. Brandon, thanks once again for joining us. Is this another Richard Jewel kind of fiasco that the FBI might be engaged in? Richard Jewel, of course, falsely accused originally for the Olympic game shooting, bombing here in Atlanta.
SKIP BRANDON, FORMER FBI DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: We sure hope not. The FBI certainly doesn't need that. I think it probably is not. We don't know all the facts. There are a lot of accusations that have been made. We simply don't know the whole story at this point.
BLITZER: Well, what possibly could lead someone like Steven Hatfill, a former Army scientist, by all definitions, someone committed to fighting terrorism, bioterrorism -- we're not mentioning him specifically -- what possibly could lead him to commit these kinds of murders?
BRANDON: Well, this is the real question. I mean how could anybody do this sort of thing, I think, is the real question. Sometimes, people just snap. Sometimes, they make mistakes. Somebody may have mailed the letters thinking people would just get sick. We just don't know the answer, but it takes a pretty sick person to do this.
BLITZER: The fact that he is now volunteering to make his blood available to the FBI, what does that suggest to you?
BRANDON: I'm not a scientist. It crosses my mind -- and I'm not accusing him of anything -- but it crosses my mind that, let's just say, if somebody were guilty or been exposed to anthrax, there may be a period of time after which it's no longer detectable in the blood. I don't know the answer. If he is a good scientist handling anthrax, he's probably pretty darn sure he didn't get any of it, so it may not show up in his blood.
BLITZER: He also says that he's willing to provide handwriting samples. We've all seen the letters that were sent to Senator Daschle, Senator Leahy. His spokesman, Pat Quason (ph), has told me that his handwriting doesn't match those letters at all. BRANDON: We can all write a letter that doesn't look like our handwriting. I don't put much in that with regard to these letters right now. What you'd want to get would be handwriting samples or printing samples, which are not given. You can -- even when giving samples you can change the characteristics.
BLITZER: And as far as you know what exactly is a so-called "person of interest," legally speaking as far as FBI investigations are concerned?
BRANDON: I have to say, Wolf, that's a new term to me. I think it's probably something that just popped up. It was pretty obvious that he was under investigation. I think whoever used it first and maybe with the attorney general, that's what came to mind. It doesn't -- it's not a legal term.
BLITZER: If in fact he's cleared of any wrongdoing, what does the FBI, the Justice Department, do to clarify the situation? Obviously, this man has suffered a great deal.
BRANDON: Yes, if in fact they determine that he's not involved at all, I'm sure that there will be a public statement to this effect. Again, we don't know -- apparently, there were leaks. There were leaks to the media. They showed up in a search. We don't know where the leaks came from. I would assume and in fact, I feel very certain that the FBI and the Department of Justice are focusing very heavily trying to determine where these leaks -- how it happened.
BLITZER: OK, Skip Brandon, formerly with the FBI, helping us better understand this very, very complex case a little bit. Appreciate it, as usual, for your joining us.
Low carbs, low fat, or just plain baloney? The battle over the diets when we return and the debate over what's going into your mouth. Plus, who wants to be a rock star? The air guitar masters of the world go for the gold.
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BLITZER: Earlier we asked, which state has the highest prevalence of obesity? The answer, Mississippi with almost a quarter of its population qualifying as obese in 2000. Regionally, the Southeast leads the U.S. with the highest percentage of obese people.
Welcome back. Should we count calories or carbohydrates? The latest issue of "Time" magazine looks at the super sizing of America, asking, "What Really Makes You Fat?" Now, our own diet debate with two noted physicians. Joining me from San Francisco, Dr. Dean Ornish. He's founder of the Preventive Medicine Research Institute. He argues that you can lose weight and gain health with a low-fat, whole foods diet and from Philadelphia, Dr. Stuart Trager. He's an orthopedic surgeon, who's a consultant to Atkins Nutritionals. He argues low carbs can put you on the road to well being, and don't worry so much about the fat.
Thanks to both of you for joining us. Let's let Dr. Trager make the case first. Why do you believe Americans who are worried about their weight shouldn't be so concerned about fat intake?
DR. STUART TRAGER, CONSULTANT TO ATKINS NUTRITIONALS INC.: I think we have to look at the efficacy of the low-fat approach over the last 25 to 30 years, and from that make some conclusions. People haven't been successful. We've watched the total fat intake decrease from about 40 percent to 34 percent. While, the average calories consumed have gone up from about 3,100 to 3,700 per person per day. At the same time, obesity is on the rise. Diabetes is on the rise and coronary artery disease is on the rise.
Unfortunately, the low-fat approach just doesn't work for many people. On the other hand, the low carbohydrate approach has been shown to do many helpful things to the body, including lowering triglycerides. Triglycerides have been shown to be an independent risk factor for coronary artery disease.
BLITZER: All right, let's let Dr. Ornish respond. Go ahead, Dean.
DR. DEAN ORNISH, PREVENTIVE MEDICINE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Well, Wolf, first, thanks for having me on the show. Let's talk about some facts instead of some myths. First of all, the percent of calories from fat has gone down, but the actual amount of fat has gone up in the last 25 years, especially in the last 10 years because the only reason the percentage has gone down is because people are eating so many more total calories, predominately, simple carbohydrates.
Look, there's no mystery in how you lose weight. You burn more calories by exercise. You eat fewer calories. You can eat fewer calories by eating less food, which is why you can lose weight on any diet or you eat foods that are less dense in calories, which means less fat. And you eat fewer simple carbohydrates. It's not just low in fat; it's low in simple carbohydrates.
And what makes the Atkins diet seductive is that people can lose weight on it, but you can lose weight on chemotherapy and it doesn't mean it's a good way to do it. And the reason they lose weight is because people eat so many simple carbs in this country. But if you reduce your simple carbs and you reduce your...
(CROSSTALK)
ORNISH: ... and instead of mortgaging your health, you enhance it.
BLITZER: All right, Dr. Trager, you want to respond to that?
TRAGER: Yes, I think the issue of losing weight by reducing calories sounds great. The problem is it's very difficult to do. I'm getting ready to compete in the Ironman Triathlon World Championship in about six weeks and I burn two to 3,000 calories an episode exercising. I still have a hard time keeping weight off without watching how I eat carbohydrates.
By controlling carbohydrates, it lets real people eat real food in an amount that they're able to maintain. It's very difficult to reduce calories.
BLITZER: And on that point, Dr. Ornish, if you take a look at the basic food pyramid that all of us are very familiar with -- and let's put it up on the screen -- a guide to daily food choices out there. People -- and let our viewers take a look at it -- if you force people only to worry about the calories, as you're suggesting, in their effort to lose weight, psychologically, they -- behaviorally, they might not be able to do that. They may need some fat in order to sustain that kind of diet.
ORNISH: Actually, Wolf, that's not true. The way that you lose weight by reducing calories is not simply by reducing the amount of food because otherwise, you get hungry and people get tired of feeling hungry. They get off the diet. They gain their weight back.
But fat has nine calories per gram and protein and carbohydrates have only four, so when you eat less fat, you eat fewer calories without having to eat less food. So you can eat whenever you're hungry until you're full and you still lose weight and keep it off.
But the important thing is that -- let's talk about science. We spent 25 years in our nonprofit institute doing studies and we found you can reverse heart disease. The Atkins people have never published a single study in any journal anywhere ever and the reason why that's important is that you can claim anything, but to the point of sciences, you have to prove it.
BLITZER: All right.
ORNISH: You have to go to jury of your peers. And we've done that and they haven't.
BLITZER: Let me (UNINTELLIGIBLE) back, Dr. Trager and point out a point that Dr. Ornish just made. Let me read to you from what the American Heart Association writes in their recommended dietary guidelines -- "limit foods high in saturated fat, trans fat and/or cholesterol such as full-fat milk products, fatty meats, tropical oils, partially hydrogenated vegetable oils and egg yolks." It goes directly against the Atkins diet.
TRAGER: Well, actually, that's not all true. I think we're in agreement on several facts and it's not fair to gloss over them. There are some fats that we don't approve of either. Trans fats are bad. Simple carbohydrates are bad and they should be avoided. There has been good quality research done from prestigious institutions, like Berkeley, that looks at exactly these issues of how a controlled carbohydrate diet may be beneficial.
In fact, it's been show that a diet that's very low in fat actually causes, unfortunately, in certain people, maybe 43 percent of the population, conversion of the LDL from a good prototype to a bad type. And when this happens, the risk for cardiovascular disease goes significantly higher. Well, if I can repeat that -- lowering fat intake in about 43 percent of the people below...
BLITZER: All right. I'm going to let Dr. Ornish respond to that and then, we have to leave it. Go ahead, Dr. Ornish.
ORNISH: Look, Wolf, let's talk about actual measures of heart disease not risk factors like LDL or LDL subtractions, actual measures of heart disease. That's what we spent 25 years doing, published in the leading (UNINTELLIGIBLE) journals. We found when people eat the way that we recommend; that we've proven their heart disease gets better. It gets better the long they follow it. There's a 91 percent reduction in chest pain, 99 percent of the patients stopped or reversed their heart disease. And a more recent study shows that we may be able to stop or reverse the progression of prostate cancer.
BLITZER: All right...
ORNISH: The Atkins people have looked at any of those things.
TRAGER: And those studies themselves were not controlled studies.
BLITZER: Gentlemen...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: All right...
ORNISH: Let's tell the truth here. These randomized controlled studies. You know, I'd like -- you can...
BLITZER: All right...
ORNISH: I'd like to tell you the tooth fairy is real but it's not.
BLITZER: All right, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it right there.
TRAGER: Can I make one last point?
BLITZER: The next time, I'm going to bring both of you back and we're going to continue this. Our viewers are really interested. This based on the e-mail we received since that major article on this subject in the "New York Times" Sunday magazine about six weeks ago. Dr. Trager and Dr. Ornish, thanks to both of you for joining us.
TRAGER: Thanks, Wolf.
ORNISH: Thank you.
BLITZER: And here is your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- which diet would you choose? Low carb, low fat or neither? We'll have the results later in this program. Go to my Web site, CNN.com/wolf. That's where you can vote. While you're there, send me your comments. We'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily on-line column today on the vice president's latest comments, CNN.com/wolf. Suicide on college campuses: what's driving an alarming number of young people over the edge? Dr. Sanjay Gupta with a closer look when we return.
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BLITZER: This is an exciting time of year for millions of young Americans. It's time to head back to college. But for some of those students, life is anything but exciting. Over the last three decades, suicide rates for college-aged men and women are up dramatically. CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a closer look at the shocking numbers and gives us a firsthand account of how disturbing the problem can be.
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DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): Not too long ago, while taking neurosurgery call here at Grady Hospital in Atlanta, I received a particularly disturbing page. It appeared a 22- year-old woman was in the emergency room with a gunshot wound to the head. First of all, it appeared self-inflicted.
(voice-over): The woman, a recent college grad, was in a coma and starting to show early signs of brain death. Over the next several hours, we worked feverishly to preserve the life she had tried to throw away.
(on-camera): Her predicament made me wonder once again, what drives people to suicide and why young people in particular resort to such desperate measures?
(voice-over): In a recent 30-year span, the annual suicide rate among college-aged women almost doubled, from 3.9 deaths per 100,000 to 7.0 per 100,000, while the rate among college-aged men has tripled, from 10 per 100,000 to 32 per 100,000 a year. Students kill themselves at all times of year, but attempted suicides, which fail owing to luck, ambivalence or just good medicine, begin to go up in the fall. That's according to the National Institute of Mental Health. Often the immediate cause seems to be a recent rejection, disappointment, or academic failure.
Trying to determine whether a young person is suicidal can be difficult, but there are warning signs that you can watch for in friends and loved ones, such as -- withdrawing form all social activities, dramatic changes in personality or demeanor, including suddenly becoming much happier or calmer, significant shifts in eating or sleeping habits and giving away personal cherished items.
(on-camera): Over the years, I have treated many patients who have attempted suicide. Our 22-year-old has recovered well and has actually left the hospital. I'm optimistic about her physical recovery, but remain disquieted about her overall chances. Why? Because experts tell me that having tried to kill herself once, she is at greater risk of trying again, but no one knows -- is whether we'll be able to pick up the pieces yet again.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Sanjay. Let's go to New York now and get a preview of "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE." That, of course, begins right at the top of the hour. Jan Hopkins tonight filling in for Lou -- Jan.
JAN HOPKINS, GUEST HOST, "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE": Thanks, Wolf. Coming up on "MONEYLINE," President Bush is considering his options on how to proceed with Iraq. But it's not just a legal question; it's also a political one. We'll have a report from Crawford, Texas. And this year's top ten investment scams -- hottest on the list, stock analysts and unscrupulous brokers. We'll have a special report telling what to watch for and controversy surrounds the nation's largest candy maker. Local opposition is growing against a potential sale of Hershey. We'll have a live report from Hershey, Pennsylvania. All that and lot more ahead on "MONEYLINE." Please join us -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jan, we'll be watching. So who won the food fight? The results of our "Web Question of The Day" coming up next.
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BLITZER: Now, here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked you this -- which diet would you choose? Low carb, low fat or neither? Look at this, 38 percent of you say you like the low carb. Thirty-six percent say you like the low fat. Twenty-six percent of you say neither. You can find the exact vote tally on my Web site, CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
In our "Picture of The Day," much ado about nothing. Check this out. It's the Air Guitar World Championship in Finland. Contestants from around the world performed their favorite rock song, plus a mandatory piece. And when it was over, a man from London walked away with the top prize for the second straight year. And here's more proof the Finns are a fun bunch. Also taking place this summer in Finland, get this, cell phone throwing, wife carrying and mosquito- swatting contests. Can't wait to see who wins those contests.
That's all the time we have today. I'll be back tomorrow in Washington at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN Center in Atlanta. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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