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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
DEA Investigates Terrorist Connection to Drug Trafficking in U.S.; New Study Finds Mammography, Self-Exams Ineffective Against Breast Cancer Mortality.
Aired September 02, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Now on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS, are Middle East terror groups reaping the profits from illegal drug sales in the U.S.? I'll ask DEA Chief Asa Hutchinson.
Target Saddam, would the U.S. have to go it alone? More world leaders line up against an attack. Is West Nile Virus now in the nation's blood supply? I'll ask the nation's point man on infectious diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci.
More controversy over mammograms, the latest study on why, when, and how often. And he did time for a white collar crime, now he helps executives prepare for prison.
It's Labor Day, Monday, September 2, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. The war against terror and the war on drugs have unexpectedly collided. U.S. officials say they now have evidence for the first time that a U.S. drug ring was funneling profits to terror groups in the Middle East. The ring allegedly operated out of Chicago and Detroit. We get more now from our Chicago Bureau Chief Jeff Flock. He's joining us live. Jeff.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CHICAGO BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, hello to you. Indeed they don't know exactly how much money was involved and they're not sure exactly how it all played out but they say, that is the DEA, the Drug Enforcement Administration, now says it has evidence that apparently money that came from a drug scheme that was based here in the Midwest went to fund terror groups in the Mid East. It's all part of a big DEA massive nationwide DEA investigation called Operation Mountain Express.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FLOCK (voice over): When Drug Enforcement Administration authorities carried out this raid on a home outside Chicago in January, they thought their biggest catch was the head of a nationwide methamphetamine drug ring.
ASA HUTCHINSON, ADMINISTRATOR, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMIN.: Whenever we have an investigation, we follow the money.
FLOCK: Now, DEA Director Asa Hutchinson says the money leads to terror groups in the Mid East. "There is increasing intelligence information" Hutchinson tells CNN, "that for the first time illegal drug sales in the U.S. are going in part to support terrorist organizations in the Middle East, specifically the Iranian backed group Hezbollah."
MAGNUS RANSTORP, ST. ANDREWS UNIVERSITY: Hezbollah had primarily been involved in the drugs cultivation business, not so much selling drugs. This is a new development if it proves to be the case.
FLOCK: Earlier this year, two Lebanese brothers were convicted in North Carolina in a cigarette smuggling enterprise that provided support for Hezbollah.
Federal investigators had no idea they would find a terrorist link when they began gathering evidence on a so-called crystal meth operation. Surveillance cameras documented the trucking of pseudoephedrine (ph) tablets from Canada where it's legal, here to the U.S. where labs like this one in southern California would convert it to meth or what some call the poor man's cocaine.
It was part of Operation Mountain Express, which nabbed 136 people in ten states. Though some of those arrested were of Middle Eastern descent, there was no evidence of a terrorist link when the arrests were announced in January.
HUTCHINSON: At this point, there are not any indications that there's any connection with terrorist activities.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FLOCK (on camera): Now of course, Wolf, they apparently have made that connection to Hezbollah, but at this point, not we are told to al Qaeda or any of the activities of September 11th. We should also note that none of the people taken into custody so far have been charged with any terrorist acts. But indeed it would be the first time that there is any kind of evidence that Americans who buy illegal drugs have had that money turn around and go back to the Middle East and fund terror. That's the latest from here, back to you.
BLITZER: Jeff Flock in Chicago, thanks very much for that report, and let's get a little bit more insight into what's going on. Asa Hutchinson is the administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration. He joins us now live. Thank you very much, Mr. Hutchinson, for joining us. How big of a deal is this?
HUTCHINSON: Well, we've known for decades that there's been a connection between illegal drug trafficking and terrorist activity but generally that was true in Columbia and in Afghanistan, but we didn't see the drug sales in the United States funding terrorist activity.
This case, Operation Mountain Express, puts it in another category when in some instances we see pseudoephedrine sales that go to make methamphetamine, the proceeds of those sales going back to the Middle East, some of which goes to fund terrorist organizations, including the Hezbollah. And so this is really the first time that we've seen that direct connection between drug activity, street sales in the United States funding terrorists overseas.
BLITZER: Is it your suspicion this may just be the tip of the iceberg? HUTCHINSON: Well, I think that as you see terrorist organizations losing support among nations, among state sponsorship, they have to look to other means for support. One of them is for their supporters out there to engage in illegal activity, whether it is contraband, cigarettes, or whether it is illegal drug sales on the streets of America.
And so, it's something that we have to be very mindful of, and I think it should bring a higher level of responsibility for the people of America. But this is the first case where we see that direct context of millions of dollars going overseas.
BLITZER: When you say millions of dollars, can you pinpoint it, tell us what your worst fear is, how much money is going to some of these terror groups?
HUTCHINSON: We can't pinpoint the amount. When I say millions of dollars, millions of dollars of proceeds from these illegal drug sales are going back to the Middle East, some of which, a significant portion of which is going into the hands of terrorist organizations.
We're still developing the facts and it's difficult to trace the money specifically because they use sophisticated means to do that, and it doesn't mean that every person who's been charged certainly has sent money back, but there is multi-source information that indicates that this is a pattern that's been used in some instances.
BLITZER: There's one charge, of course, illegal drug sales in the United States and you serve prison time, usually a long prison sentence. But if the proceeds go to a terror organization, is that an added punishment? Do you get an added punishment as a result of that?
HUTCHINSON: Well, the United States Attorney would have to look at that and I don't anticipate it moving that direction at this time. This is information that we have. We're looking at it and we'll have to take it step-by-step.
BLITZER: If you look right now at the suspects, are they U.S. citizens or are they non-Americans?
HUTCHINSON: Well in both categories. In some instances, they're United States citizens with ties back to the Middle East. In other instances, they are aliens with legal work permits. And so, they come in a variety fashion. But regardless in those instances that we're talking about that money has flowed back to the Middle East.
BLITZER: While I have you, another source of money, illegal drugs, Afghanistan ironically after the destruction of the Taliban regime, some of that opium and that poppy sales have been growing significantly as a source for illegal drugs in the West, including in the United States. Update us on that.
HUTCHINSON: Well, there's been a strong international effort to impact the poppy crop this year. Estimates are we'll probably get 20 to 30 percent of it, which means there will be a large amount that is produced. We have to have an ongoing effort there. The key component is that we have to have a national police that's built up in Afghanistan where the rule of law can actually enforce the law, and the people can go out and give alternative crop assistance without endangering their lives. So much work has to be done, but it's an opportunity we have internationally to impact a significant amount of heroin coming out of there.
BLITZER: I'm sure the DEA will be all over that place at some point as well. Thanks for joining us Asa Hutchinson.
And in Sweden today, a court ruled against the hijacking suspect prosecutors say may have been planning a terrorist attack just days before the anniversary of September 11th. The court ordered Kerim Chatty to be held for two more weeks on preliminary charges of planning to hijack a jetliner last Thursday. CNN's Diana Muriel is in Sweden with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Hidden by a large police presence, a Swedish terrorist suspect is taken to court. He is 29-year-old Kerim Chatty, a Swedish citizen whose parents are from Tunisia. He was caught with a gun in his carry-on bag as he tried to board an airplane in Sweden.
He doesn't deny having the gun in his suitcase but his lawyer says there's an innocent explanation, on he's not yet making public. The defense says it's not satisfied with the way the police have handled the case.
NILS UGGLA, CHATTY'S LAWYER: They haven't given me any information so I can't tell you anything about it, but I'm surprised that I have not got more information. Sometimes in these kind of cases, we read more in the papers than the police gives us information about and that is not correct.
MURIEL: Prosecutors say Chatty was planning a hijacking. Others agree. Prosecutors have demanded Chatty be kept in custody for at least two weeks as he represents a risk.
THOMAS HAGGESTROM, CHIEF PROSECUTOR: Continues with his criminal activities and that there is a risk that he interferes with the investigation.
MURIEL: Magnus Ranstorp is an expert on al Qaeda and terrorism who is also a Swede. He has been following this case very closely.
RANSTORP: I think also that the incident was much more serious than was first regarded, particularly the charges that were brought against Mr. Chatty involving potentially more than one weapon, involving a series of points of accusation, indictment, which shows that there is more than meets the eye in this story.
MURIEL: Judge Thomas Valen (ph) agreed to close the court to media as he heard arguments for and against keeping Chatty in police custody while the investigation proceeds. After deliberating for more than two hours, he ruled Chatty should remain in police custody.
MURIEL (on camera): Chatty is now being transferred from the police station here in the town of Vaesteraas where he was arrested to Stockholm where he'll be held for at least two weeks. But his defense attorney says he's planning to appeal the judge's decision to keep Chatty under lock and key. Diana Muriel CNN, Vaesteraas, Sweden.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In the Netherlands, eight men have been arrested accused of helping finance al Qaeda and recruiting fighters for the group. The men were taken into custody Friday and appeared before a judge in Rotterdam. Investigators are not releasing the suspects' names and they say they have not yet determined their nationalities.
More world leaders line up against the United States and a possible attack on Iraq. Is this influencing the Bush administration? Should it? We'll talk with former CIA Director James Woolsey. Also ahead, no debate is more important to women's health than the arguments about mammograms. What are you to think about a new finding in a leading health journal? We'll have the information. It's being released this hour for the first time.
First, today's news quiz. Which president created Labor Day, James Garfield, Grover Cleveland, William Taft, John Kennedy? The answer coming up.
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(AUDIO GAP)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice over): ...hiding from a possible U.S. military attack. Washington's concern, will Iraq supply those deadly weapons to terrorist groups, a potentially catastrophic expansion of the threat posed by groups like al Qaeda?
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D) FOR. RELATIONS CHMN.: If we wait for the danger to become clear and present, it could become too late.
STARR: Iraq's inventory is significant. In the chemical arena:
JON WOLFSTHAL, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT: Iraq continues to possess several tons of chemical weapons agents, enough to kill thousands upon thousands of civilians or soldiers on the battlefield.
STARR: United Nations weapons experts believe Iraq may still have more than 600 metric tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, VS, and Sarin, 25,000 rockets, and 15,000 artillery shells with chemical agents are also unaccounted for.
Equally worrisome biological weapons, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recently confirmed Iraq has mobile biological weapons laboratories, almost impossible for the U.S. to target.
WOLFSTHAL: The concern is that Iraq may already have or could very quickly recreate the capability to produce vast amounts of anthrax, tons of material, compared with the several grams of material which literally shut down the U.S. postal system last year. This is something that could kill thousands upon thousands of people.
STARR: Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz says the Bush administration is wrong.
TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: They are telling wrongly the American public opinion and the world that Iraq is reproducing weapons of mass destruction. That's not true. We are ready to prove it. We are ready to prove it by technical, viable means.
STARR: Iraq told the United Nations in 1995 it had produced 30,000 liters of biological agents including anthrax and other toxins it could put on missiles. The United Nations says the real amount may be three or four times greater. Saddam Hussein is not idly waiting for George W. Bush to decide whether to attack. The Iraqis are doing everything they can to deceive U.S. intelligence from assembling a list of targets to strike.
WOLFSTAHL: We know that Iraq has already begun moving troops around. We know that they've begun to hide valuable assets underground. They can read the writing on the wall. They know that President Bush and this administration is "out to get them" and he's trying to protect as much as he can as quickly as he can.
STARR: Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: So how much evidence does the United States need to justify a strike against Iraq and will the United States have to go it alone? Joining us now the former CIA Director James Woolsey, Mr. Woolsey as usual thanks for joining us. So what's the bottom line? How much evidence does the United States need that Iraq represents a threat, because as you know a lot of allies out there, including some members of Congress aren't yet convinced?
JAMES WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well look, anyone who doesn't believe Saddam already has substantial chemical and bacteriological weapons, either works for Saddam or is an ostrich. There just are no other options. Clearly, he has substantial chemical and bacteriological weapons.
BLITZER: Scott Ritter the former U.N. weapons inspector, he was there. He doesn't believe it.
WOOLSEY: Well, the U.N. weapons inspectors knew nothing about the biological weapons programs until 1995. They didn't find them because they were hidden and they're mobile and so forth until Saddam's son-in-law Kamal came out who was the head of the program and said yes, we do have a biological weapons program and the documents are here. So the inspectors went back and they found the documents and the Iraqis said, "oh, that biological weapons program?" Well, we've destroyed all that.
BLITZER: He's the son-in-law who went back to Baghdad and was executed?
WOOLSEY: And was executed. Anybody who believes that, I got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd be glad to sell you. The same with the chemical weapons, we know they have substantial chemical weapons and we know they have some ballistic missiles, Scud Bs a few hundred mile range, longer range than what they're permitted under the agreement.
Clearly, they're working on nuclear weapons. They had the infrastructure. Kimdir Hamza (ph), their chief bomb maker defected in 1994. He says there are some 400 facilities in Iraq that are connected with the illegal nuclear weapons program.
BLITZER: And by all accounts before they invaded Kuwait in August of 1990, they were pretty close to having a crude nuclear device?
WOOLSEY: They were very close and we had the Israeli in their radar on the Aceric (ph) reactor in 1991, a decade earlier to thank for the fact that Saddam didn't have nuclear weapons in 1991. But in order to get the nuclear weapons, they had the design, they have the infrastructure, they have everything they need except maybe the fissionable material.
They're using highly-enriched uranium which is much easier to work with than plutonium. You need a bit more of it, but they may steal it. They may make it. They could get it most any time. There were these American and Russian group about ten days ago, you all reported, went into former Yugoslavia and got 100 pounds of highly-enriched uranium ready to be made into bombs that was not being well cared for. If that had been the Iraqis, they would have what they need to make a nuclear weapon now.
BLITZER: Yesterday when I interviewed Tariq Aziz, the deputy prime minister of Iraq, he made it clear that none of his neighbors, whether the Saudis, the Jordanians, or the Egyptians in the Arab world, let alone the Russians, the Chinese, or the Europeans, believe that this represents a significant threat.
WOOLSEY: Well none of the grocery store owners in Chicago in the 1920s, when Al Capone was running things, had much bad to say about him either. If you went there and said we'd like to send Elliott Ness in to clean up Chicago, they would have said oh, not against Al, my friend Al, no. Al's just fine. Of course once we did it, they were all very happy.
And as far as Tariq Aziz and the truth is concerned, he's a very accurate representative of the truth. It's just that he's like a weathervane put on backwards. If you take the opposite of what he says you're pretty correct.
BLITZER: So why does the United States have such a tough time right now scoring points, winning over the hearts and minds of the Europeans, the Arabs, so many others who the United States theoretically would need if it was going to launch a war?
WOOLSEY: Well, with respect to Saddam's neighbors, I think many of them are afraid. With respect to the Europeans, they rather remind me of the townspeople in the old movie "High Noon." They'll stand there and say gee, we've got something else to do because the marshal will get the job done. It was Gary Cooper in the movie. It's us in real life.
I think some of the Europeans will be with us. I think Tony Blair will. I think the Italians. I think the Spaniards, the Danes, the Poles. They may not be real vocal about it but I think they'll be with it. This is increasingly a German and French problem and a problem in Brussels. I think much of Europe actually will support us when it comes down to it.
BLITZER: All right, Jim Woolsey as usual, thank you very much.
WOOLSEY: Good to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: The White House today took pains to insist there's no serious split within the Bush administration when it comes to Iraq policy. But on the international stage, the United States is indeed increasingly finding itself isolated as more world leaders unleash stinging criticism.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): On this Labor Day, President Bush avoided what is emerging as the most controversial issue on his agenda, whether to launch war against Iraq. But contrast that silence with what the president is hearing from friends around the world.
NELSON MANDELA, FMR. SOUTH AFRICAN PRES.: No country must be allowed to take the law into their own hands.
BLITZER: Russia's Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov meeting in Moscow with Iraq's Foreign Minister Naji Sabri (ph) was on the same page.
IGOR IVANOV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): We haven't found a single fact-based argument providing that Iraq poses a threat to United States security in Washington's latest statements.
BLITZER: In Islamabad, President Pervez Musharraf told CNN's Christiane Amanpour that Pakistan opposes a U.S. strike against Iraq.
PRES. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTAN: It certainly will have an adverse effect on the Islamic world and also in the other parts. I don't think there is full support to it even in the European Union, and in many other big powers, Russia and China being against.
BLITZER: In Baghdad, Iraqi President Saddam Hussein went on television to tell his citizens the United States wants to attack Iraq in order to take over its oil supplies. An attack on Iraq, he says, is an attack against the entire Arab world.
Indeed, the Iraqi diplomatic offensive against the United States is unfolding around the world including at the Earth Summit in Johannesburg, South Africa. That's where Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz is now scheduled to meet Tuesday with U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan. At issue, whether those U.N. weapons inspectors will return to Iraq. On Sunday, Aziz told me don't hold your breath.
AZIZ: It's not started because it's going to bring about a conclusion, Wolf. It's not going to bring about a conclusion.
BLITZER: But 24 hours later, Aziz now says inspectors may still have a role to play. A White House official ridiculed Aziz' statements saying the Iraqis change their position more often than Saddam Hussein changes his bunkers.
At the same time, White House officials insist there's no real division among top administration policymakers, even though just last week Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of State Colin Powell appeared to be at odds over the value of getting those U.N. weapons inspectors back into Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (on camera): This debate over Iraq is just beginning. When we come back a critical question for all women, when should you start getting mammograms? We'll have the latest in that debate. And, should we be more afraid of the West Nile Virus now that it may have been spread through a blood transfusion? We'll talk with the nation's top man on infectious disease, Dr. Anthony Fauci, but first a look at some news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): The typhoon that rolled across Japan last week pounded Korea over the weekend. South Korean authorities say it was the worst typhoon to hit that country in 40 years and dozens of people are dead. North Korea is reporting scores of deaths too.
At least five people were reported missing after a mudslide in Costa Rico. After days of heavy rain, the slide of a small mountain gave way in a rural community just outside San Jose. Hundreds have been evacuated.
More than 100 heads of state are in South Africa to join in the final days of the Earth Summit. President Bush is not attending but Secretary of State Colin Powell is expected Wednesday.
These explosions are only part of a drill. More than 3,000 Chinese police officers participated in this exercise designed to evaluate cooperation among police departments.
Buried treasure at a construction site in Cambodia where workers are building a new temple at the sight of an old one. The workers found 31 statues of Buddha, 27 of them made of solid gold. Experts say the statues were buried under the old temple hundreds of years ago.
As fans kept vigil outside a London hospital, the woman known to the world as Posh Spice gave birth to a seven-pound baby boy. Victoria Beckham and her soccer star husband David have given their new son a name that may take some living up to in future years, Romeo, and that's our look around the world.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER (on camera): Welcome back to CNN, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Coming up mammogram recommendations all women need to know and is the West Nile Virus a threat to our blood supply, but first a look at some other stories making news right now.
A potentially very significant development in the Middle East, the Palestinian's top security official is calling for an end to all violence against Israelis. The new Interior Minister Abdul Razik al-Yaya (ph) says Palestinians should replace violence with civil resistance. An unidentified Israeli official tells the Reuters News Service the move is welcome but stresses that words as well as action are needed. U.S. officials tell me they're impressed by the minister's comments.
In New Hampshire, seven people including two children were killed in a plane crash today. An FAA spokesman says the small twin engine plane crashed shortly after taking off in the southwestern part of the state. Witnesses say the plane burst into flames on impact in a heavily-wooded area. A flight plan indicated the plane was headed to Charleston, West Virginia.
In Los Angeles, a new $190 million Roman Catholic cathedral officially opened its doors today. Priests, bishops, archbishops and cardinals were on hand for the opening ceremony for the Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral. Also on hand, dozens of protesters criticizing the church's handling of priests accused of sexual abuse.
Women have long been told make sure you get your mammogram, but there's been disagreement about whether women in their 40s benefit from mammograms. There's a new study being released this hour and a renewed battle among the experts. Our Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now from CNN Center in Atlanta. She's got details of this new study. How significant, Elizabeth, is it?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, many people would say it's not very significant and some people would say it is. Wolf, this battle has just gone on forever it seems and it continues to go on. Let's talk about the study that is coming out just now as we speak from the Canadian study, a rather large Canadian study. Let's take a look at what the study found.
What it found was that mammography, breast physical examination and breast self-examination did not reduce breast cancer mortality, so actually they found that not only didn't mammography help, but women examining their own breasts or doctors examining breasts didn't help reduce mortality. Just as many women died when they got mammograms as the group that didn't get mammograms. However, in this same edition of this medical journal, the U.S. Health and Services' Preventive Services Task Force says, "We recommend screening mammogram every one to two years for women aged 40 and older."
So there, you have in one journal two different contradictory statements. So you might say how could two groups come up with such different states and the answer is that each one disagrees with the way that the other does studies. I was talking with someone from the American Cancer Society and he said, "We also recommend mammography at age 40 because we think the Canadian study and other studies like it were not well done." For example, in Canada, they used -- these women got mammographies in the 1980's. The quality of the picture was not as good then, in mammography. Radiologists weren't as good reading at them. He had a whole host of reasons why he thinks that these studies weren't good.
Sot he bottom line is what women really need to do is they need to look at big organizations who have gone through all the data and see what they say, the American Cancer Society, the American Society for Clinical Oncology as well as other groups. They all say start at 40. That's what the evidence says -- Wolf.
BLITZER: One question, Elizabeth -- I don't understand with the possible reasoning being mammograms are expensive, what is the possible downside to a woman having a regular mammogram?
COHEN: Exactly and that's the question that every woman needs to ask herself. There is, of course, a small amount of radiation. Some people would say there's a small amount of risk there, but other than that there's not a lot of risk. It is possible that the mammogram will say you have cancer when you don't. Obviously, there's an emotional cause there, but most people will say, "You know what, there really isn't much of a risk, so why not go ahead and have one?"
What happens is that if everybody went ahead and did that, you might have a lot of costs and you might not be finding a lot of cancers. And some people would say, "Well, why bother doing it?" But to an individual woman, the risk is not huge.
BLITZER: Elizabeth Cohen, thanks for that update. I'm sure all the women out there and I'm sure the men as well very --- will be very interested in this new study. Appreciate it very much. There's also new concern today over the spread of West Nile Virus. Health officials say a woman may have gotten the virus through blood transfusions, and four other people possibly became infected after receiving the woman's organs following her death. One of the organ recipients has died, and three were hospitalized with symptoms associated with West Nile. Tests to determine if they got the virus through the transplants are currently being conducted. Joining us now with insight into this very important issue, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, an expert on this subject.
Until now, we thought that mosquitoes transmitted this West Nile Virus, now maybe that's not the sole source.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: That's a possibility and that's what the CDC and the FDA are very actively and aggressively trying to track down as to whether or not there was a contamination of the blood that this woman received or the organs themselves. There's not any definitive proof, but they are assuming, I think, prudently so given the circumstances of there being four of those individuals getting diseases that are compatible with -- one of which actually had a definitive diagnosis that you should assume though it's not been definitively proven.
BLITZER: This is a very important issue because it could affect the nation's blood supply and tests that have to be done to make sure that blood supply is accurate and good.
FAUCI: Right. Well, first of all, the CDC is actively working on trying to get a rapid test that they can test for West Nile if in fact, this pans out, that it was due to the transfusions.
The important point to bring out, Wolf, is that the blood supply in the country is really quite safe. People always ask -- is it a 100 percent safe? It isn't a 100 percent safe. There's also a risk of there being a problem not only with a transfusion reaction, but some, what we call, adventitious agent that might get transfused. However, I can best answer a question that were asked by saying that myself, personally, if I were ill enough to need a blood transfusion or transplant at this time, I would not hesitate to get one.
BLITZER: Because the odds are very low?
FAUCI: They're very, very low, very, very low -- not zero, not zero. And people have to understand there is a risk, but it isn't zero not only for West Nile but for other agents. But as I mentioned, the CDC and the FDA are really all over this and are doing an excellent job in tracking this down.
BLITZER: There's a shortage of blood supply out there already. If people are now going to be screened and asked, did you get a mosquito bite, do you have a fever -- any of these questions that's going to further complicate the blood supply?
FAUCI: Well, the mosquito thing is going to be more problematic, but whether you have -- recently had a fever, we have been asking -- we, the medical community, have been asking that -- the blood bank officials all the day. And even before this potential incident here, that if you went in to donate blood and said that within a recent period of time that you had a febrile illness, you would not be able to draw blood and that's -- I mean to donate blood and that's an important issue that people have to understand. We're now fortifying that and being extra special careful in that question associated with other questions, but that's something that's been going on for some time now.
BLITZER: How long is it going to take to determine if this new potential threat out there is a real threat?
FAUCI: Well, the CDC now is going back and trying to track the blood, the donors, who were involved in this as well as examining the tissue and any other specimens. And they're doing that really quite quickly. They're doing an excellent job.
BLITZER: I know you're on top of this as well. Dr Anthony Fauci, as usual, thanks for joining us.
FAUCI: You're welcome.
BLITZER: His arrest was called a big victory in the war on terror, but we've heard almost nothing about the case against Jose Padilla. We'll talk with his lawyer about the man some call an American al Qaeda. And if Enron's Andrew Fastow or other corporate executives end up serving jail time, what can they expect? We'll talk to a man who knows because he's been there. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. Jose Padilla is a man in limbo, a man cut off from the world as he sits in a military jail in South Carolina. Padilla, an American citizen, is suspected of plotting to detonate a so-called dirty bomb inside the United States. He was arrested in May at Chicago's O'Hare Airport after arriving on a flight from Pakistan. For Padilla, at least, it's a case that seems to be going from bad to worse.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): For man not charged with any crime, Jose Padilla faces some very serious allegations. Padilla is being held at the U.S. Navy brig in Charleston, South Carolina, and is designated as an enemy combatant. Last week, U.S. federal prosecutors filed court documents alleging that Padilla researched how to build a so-called dirty bomb at an al Qaeda facility in Pakistan.
A dirty bomb is a conventional explosive device designed to spread radioactive material. The prosecutor's documents say Padilla planned to use radioactive material, stolen in the United States to build the dirty bomb. They referred to Padilla as a close associate of al Qaeda and they say he met with senior al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan, including Abu Zubaydah, to map out other possible attacks inside the United States. But so far, Padilla has said nothing publicly and is still not had access to his attorney since being designated an enemy combatant.
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BLITZER: The person defending Jose Padilla is Donna Newman, a private New York lawyer who got the job simply by chance. But, she has not seen him since he was classified as an enemy combatant, and that is why she's suing the president of the United States right now. Newman's story is one of several in "Time" magazine's anniversary issue on the September terrorist attacks. Donna Newman joins us now live from our New York studio.
Donna, thanks for joining us. And to our viewers, who aren't familiar with the background, tell us how you got to represent Jose Padilla?
DONNA NEWMAN, ATTORNEY FOR JOSE PADILLA: Certainly. Thank you for allowing me to be here. I am -- was appointed by Chief Judge Mckazy (ph) to represent him when he came into New York from Chicago. And he was in New York for a little over three and a half weeks and during that period of time, not only did I just -- been named representative, but I met with him numerous times during that period and filed papers on his behalf.
BLITZER: But ever since he was classified as enemy combatant you have not been allowed to see him, right?
NEWMAN: No, I have not. Of course, I have requested to see him, but I have been denied access and he's been held incommunicado, what I understand, in lock down for 23 hours a day without access to either me or to any of his family members.
BLITZER: Is that why you're -- is that why you're suing President Bush right now?
NEWMAN: We are. We have petitions -- what is called writ of habeas corpus, which is an action based on our contention that Mr. Padilla is being held illegally. That's an illegal detention as well as that his right to receive counsel in violation of his constitutional rights are denied. It's very important to recognize here that Mr. Padilla is being held without charges for the sole purpose, according to the government, to interrogate him.
And if I may just back up one moment...
BLITZER: Well, before you get into that, Donna, let me just press you on this point because the government does say there is a precedent during World War II. U.S. citizens were indeed held as enemy combatant and held for the duration of the war.
NEWMAN: On the contrary, in -- Ray Kwirwin (ph) is the case that the government is relying on and it absolutely doesn't support their position. If it supports any position, it's the authority of government -- once there is declared war by Congress and Congress has authorized military commissions that an enemy combatant, which is defined within Ray Kwirwin, can be tried, charged and tried by a military commission. Not only are here facts very different from in Ray Kwirwin, but we do not have the Congressional authority that President Roosevelt had during World War II.
BLITZER: Well, I'm not -- I don't want to, you know, get into an issue, a debate over what the precedent is, but the government -- and I'll just point out -- on behalf of the Justice Department, they do point out that there doesn't have to be a -- quote -- "declared war" by Congress. They insist that it can be a war that the U.S. is fighting. As a result, there's precedent.
But let's talk about this indefinite holding of Jose Padilla. Has the government given you any indication whatsoever how long they plan on holding him as an enemy combatant?
NEWMAN: You know, in fact, they say "indefinitely." And if I just may, one point is very important. When you spoke of the government papers that were filed, it is significant for the public to recognize that they admit that the information that they received with respect to Mr. Padilla was not only inconsistent, but some of it, the truth, was skeptical. For example, one of the informants recanted completely the information. The other informant, they admit, is not reliable and was on drugs and has lied to the government previously for his own agenda reasons, perhaps, to set terror within the United States, within the populous. So that the information that they relied on is lacking, and lacks in credibility both -- and also in the -- not only in quality but in quantity. And this is very disconcerting and it should be disconcerting to everyone that the president unilaterally has characterized Mr. Padilla and placed him in this detention, which means he can do it to you, he can do it to me and he can do it to anyone. If he could do it on mere -- the kind of information that he's done here.
BLITZER: Donna Newman doing what she probably never thought she'd ever have to do. Certainly, something, she was never trained to do in law school, represent a client she can't even talk to. Thanks for joining us and giving us...
NEWMAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: ... your point-of-view, appreciate it very much.
NEWMAN: Thanks.
BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- should the U.S. government be able to hold U.S. citizens like Jose Padilla indefinitely as enemy combatants? We'll have the results later in this program. Go to my Web page, CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. While you're there, send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/Wolf.
What is jail time like for corporate executives who get caught cooking the books? Find out next from a man who knows. And our "Newswire" takes you to Southern California where a wildfire may -- repeat, may become a threat to lives and property.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. White-collar crime has received a lot of attention in the United States this year, probably a lot more attention coming forward. Now, there's a new book out there that offers advice to white-collar felons who face prison time. It's by David Novak, who spent almost a year in a federal prison for insurance fraud. He's with us now from Portland, Oregon, to talk more about his book and his own personal experiences.
I guess some corporate executives might find it useful to read your book. Tell us why, David.
DAVID NOVAK, AUTHOR: Well, one of the most shocking things that anybody facing federal incarceration has to deal with is the absolute lack of public domain information on it. These men and women find themselves facing one of life's greatest fears, you know, we fear falling from heights, we fear fire and needless to say, any of us fear is any period of incarceration, going to prison.
BLITZER: Which prison did you serve in?
NOVAK: I had the opportunity to serve my time at Federal Prison Camp Eggland. It's located on Eggland Air Force Base in the Northwest corner of Florida. Ironically, this facility, which was opened in 1962, is the facility for which the term "Club Fed" was actually coined.
BLITZER: It's supposed to be -- it's supposed to be almost like a country club, where you go, you play golf, you play tennis. Is that what you discovered?
NOVAK: Well, that was certainly what I was led to believe like many other people. And I'm here to drive a stake through that vision right now. There is no golf there. There are, in fact, sport courts, which on occasion can be used as tennis courts. But certainly, it is as far from any country club as I've ever experienced.
BLITZER: But what kind of criminals? I mean I thought -- you originally thought -- at least in your book, you thought there would be a lot of other white-collar criminals serving time with you, but you quickly discovered that the population was not necessarily of the most pleasant caliber.
NOVAK: Well, that's very well put, Wolf. You know I, like many white-collar offenders, assumed that I would be housed like other people like myself from the same socio-economic background. And basically, I was expecting a white-collar prison. There is no such thing within this country any longer. Seventy to 75 percent of the people I was housed with and those -- these demographics hold true today -- are there as a result of the war on drugs. There are people there for arson, burglary, forgery, but the vast majority of people in federal prisons are there on drug crimes.
BLITZER: And you had work every day. You were what -- making 11 cents an hour? NOVAK: Yes, I was making 11 cents an hour. Now, the federal inmates have received a raise. They're now making 12 cents an hour. But federal inmates are required to work 40 hours a week, generally eight hours a day, five days a week, at some -- one of several medial tasks. I was actually assigned to work in the facility's bakery, something, which I never pictured myself doing. But it ended up being somewhat fulfilling, that I worked with a decent group of people and that's the way I made my living so to speak in federal prison.
BLITZER: David Novak learned the hard way -- you do the crime, you pay the time. You did the time, as well. You learned it in -- and you wrote about it, in "Down Time: A Guide To Federal Incarceration." I assume some of those big shots will be reading your book and learning a little bit about what to expect when they go to jail, appreciate it very much, David.
NOVAK: It's my pleasure, Wolf, thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you. And the surf's up in Florida, but there is some real concern for Tropical Storm Edouard. We'll tell you just how far its reach is in just a moment. And just another Sunday announcement in the "New York Times"? I don't think so. Hear from the couple when we come back.
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BLITZER: Now checking these stories on today's "Newswire." People along the South Atlantic coast are keeping a close watch on a new tropical storm. Edouard is in the Atlantic, just east of Jacksonville, Florida. Warnings have gone up for that part of Florida and for the Georgia coast. The storm is drifting slowly to the north.
Firefighters in Southern California are spending this Labor Day in a battle against a couple of major wildfires. The biggest blaze, in the Angeles National Forest, has swept across 10,000 acres. The other major fire has scorched almost a thousand acres in northwestern Los Angeles County.
Keeping a promise it made last month, the "New York Times" has printed its first announcement of a same sex commitment ceremony. The couple, Daniel Gross and Steven Goldstein, had their civil union ceremony in Vermont, and their announcement appeared in yesterday's "New York Times." Both men spoke with CNN earlier today. Goldstein says, so far, he and his partner have not heard of any criticism over the announcement.
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STEVEN GOLDSTEIN, UNION IN NYT'S WEDDING SECTION: Criticism would sort of roll off our backs, like water off a duck's back, whatever the analogy is. Listen, people are absolutely entitled to disagree, and God bless them if they disagree. But events like this are happening in the gay community. The gay community comprises 10 percent of the nation. And what newspapers are doing, they're not taking a civil rights stand. They're just reporting on events.
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BLITZER: The "Times" says it uses the same criteria for same-sex announcements as it uses for weddings -- newsworthiness and the accomplishments of the couples and their families. Gross is a vice president of a financial firm in Connecticut. Goldstein founded a public affairs firm in New York.
Time is running out to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." Should the U.S. government be able to hold U.S. citizens like Jose Padilla indefinitely as enemy combatants? Log on to CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. The results, when we come back.
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BLITZER: Our "Picture of The Day" comes from Louisville, Kentucky. The city's little league world champs are getting a hero's reception in their hometown. The Valley Sports team was honored today with a parade and ceremony at Slugger Field. Over the weekend, the team had dinner with Kentucky's governor. Congratulations to them.
Now, here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of The Day." Earlier we asked -- should the U.S. government be able to hold U.S. citizens like Jose Padilla indefinitely as enemy combatants? Look at this, 42 percent of you say, "yes." Fifty-eight percent of you say, "no." You can find the exact vote tally, and continue to vote, by the way, on my Web site, CNN.com/Wolf. Remember, this is not -- repeat, not a scientific poll.
Time to hear directly from you now, our e-mailers. Mike writes this -- "I think that America should strike and move Saddam and his regime out of power before it's too late. Let's not have another horrible day like September 11." From Gerald --- "It's clear Iraq is on our hit list, but what is not clear is what we intend to do to Saddam's family, his generals and so on. We can't let these people go free. Are we going to hold trials and hang them as we should?" Robert wonders this -- "Why is President Bush in such a hurry to attack a county? Is he looking for excitement? Hmmm? I do not understand all the reasons."
We have one more e-mail. I'll just read it. Betty has a question -- "Why are we advertising so much about the how, what, when and where of our means on the war against Iraq? Wouldn't that give Iraq all the info it needs to be ready for an attack?" A lot of different views.
That's all the time we have today on this Labor Day. I'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" begins right now.
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