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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Counties, States fight for firsts access to try, execute Sniper Suspects; U.S. Diplomat Killed in Jordan Today
Aired October 28, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR (voice-over): Turf battle, more counties file charges in the sniper shootings.
KIRBY PORTER, VA. COMMONWEALTH'S ATTY.: We intend to prosecute the 17-year-old as an adult.
BLITZER: Hear his voice in court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your current legal name?
JOHN ALLEN MUHAMMAD, SNIPER SUSPECT: My current legal name is John Allen Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the new name by which you wish to be known?
JOHN ALLEN MUHAMMAD: John Allen Muhammad.
BLITZER: Is there another weapon? Were there other crimes?
A U.S. diplomat gunned down in Jordan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This incident, if anything, will make us more cooperative with the United States in the fight against terrorists.
BLITZER: Inside a theater held hostage and the moment a deadly gas came in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could see and taste it but after this gas, I laid on the floor under the cot. I laid and remember nothing.
BLITZER: What secret chemicals killed more than 100 hostages? Today, there are clues.
Rethinking the anthrax attacks, was it a lone killer or state sponsored terrorism?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's Monday, October 28, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Who will try the Washington area sniper suspects first? That's the key question as the legal tussle continues and more charges that carry the death penalty are filed against the two suspects, John Muhammad and John Lee Malvo. Our Justice Kelli Arena is joining us now with the latest sense of what's going on -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is already very messy. Prosecutors from seven jurisdictions where the sniper attacks took place are involved in a legal tug of war over who gets to go to court first.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): At least four counties in Maryland and Virginia are filing charges in the sniper case against John Allen Muhammad and the 17-year-old John Lee Malvo.
PORTER: The Grand Jury for the Circuit Court of Hanover County has returned indictments against John Allen Muhammad on all counts. Identical charges have been brought against the 17-year-old male.
ARENA: In Virginia, the two men are facing death penalty eligible charges of Murder. Sources say even if it can't be proved that Malvo was a trigger man, there is a new terrorism statute that prosecutors may try to apply. In Maryland, a death penalty sentence is less certain.
Under charges already filed, Muhammad faces the death penalty in Maryland, but because Malvo is a minor, he does not. According to federal sources, the death penalty is key to which jurisdiction is likely to try the men first, and those sources say Maryland is not likely to be chosen.
DICK THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: There seems to be a growing consensus among law enforcement officials and, I might add, among the general public that if the death penalty is to be utilized, this is the kind of case that it ought to be reserved for, where there's a willful, premeditated killing.
ARENA: But six of the ten people killed were shot in Montgomery County, Maryland. Officials there say there are compelling reasons they should have the first crack.
DOUGLAS GANSLER, MARYLAND STATE'S ATTY.: Our community, Montgomery County, was disproportionately affected by these shootings and we feel that we need to begin the healing process as soon as possible.
ARENA: The two men remain in federal custody. Justice Department officials say that gives them the right to decide which jurisdiction goes first. Justice sources also say federal charges could be filed that would rope all the cases together under an extortion charge that includes murder, a move some critics dismiss.
MARK HULKOWER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: What this case is about is murder. It's not about extortion or anything like that and these cases should be tried as murder cases.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Now sources say that, a course of action could be decided as early as tomorrow -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, she's covering the story for us, thanks very much.
ARENA: You're welcome.
BLITZER: And joining us now to talk a little bit more about the legal aspects of this case, the Attorney General of Virginia Jerry Kilgore. He's joining us now live from Richmond. Mr. Attorney General thanks so much for joining us. You heard Doug Gansler, the attorney in Montgomery County, say they lost six people in Maryland. Why should Virginia try these guys first?
JERRY KILGORE, VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You know it's about judicial resources, Wolf. You know, we have the death penalty in Virginia. It's tested and true in Virginia. We have prosecutors that have attained the death penalty in previous cases. They are ready and willing to try these individuals in Virginia. I'm hopeful that the prosecutors can all get together and work this out much as the law enforcement community were able to work together in apprehending. We ought to be able to work together in prosecuting.
BLITZER: Well, is there any discussion underway between you, your colleagues in Maryland, the District of Columbia and from the Justice Department?
KILGORE: Certainly, we've been in contact with the Justice Department from Day One working with the Justice Department to try to bring a resolution to this. The Justice Department wants exactly what we want, everyone to get together and make an informed decision on the best way to go with this case.
BLITZER: Do you know for sure how old John Lee Malvo really is? There's some dispute whether he's 17 or perhaps 18.
KILGORE: You know, we're being cautious in Virginia and the counties that have already filed charges are charging him as a juvenile just to be on the safe side so that we can then transfer that case, try him as an adult, and subject him to the same penalties that the other individual is facing.
BLITZER: Eight-six people have been executed by my count in Virginia since 1976 when the death penalty was approved, as you know, by the U.S. Supreme Court. Have you ever executed someone who was a juvenile at the time of the crime?
KILGORE: Yes, we have, four since the year 2000 have been executed when their crimes were committed as a juvenile and we say that, you know, it makes no difference to a victim whether the assailant was 17 years old or 18 years old. You know what makes it...
BLITZER: Go ahead.
KILGORE: ...you know, the difference, you know a crime has been committed against the Commonwealth of Virginia.
BLITZER: But crimes have also been committed against the State of Maryland. How do you balance that, three people killed in Virginia, six people killed in Maryland?
KILGORE: You know I don't think we should get into a balancing act here. I think we should all get together and decide based upon judicial economy which state can proceed the quickest, which state has a track record in death penalty cases, and which state's death penalty statutes have been tested and tried in the appellate courts.
BLITZER: Do you agree, though, with your counterparts in Maryland that the federal government, the Justice Department should stay out of it and either let Maryland or Virginia handle this death penalty or the murder cases?
KILGORE: You know, the Justice Department has been a great partner to Virginia in this case. You know we want the Justice Department involved with us sorting through the evidence, working with us over the next few days to make a determination on which jurisdiction ought to move forward first.
BLITZER: All right, Jerry Kilgore the Attorney General of Virginia thanks for joining us. Good luck to you as well.
KILGORE: Thank you. Thank you.
BLITZER: And could the sniper suspects be responsible for more shootings? "TIME" magazine correspondent Michael Weisskopf has that scoop and joins us at 15 past the hour.
Then at 35 after, the pressure is on the police chief. We'll talk to one man who understands what it's like to be Chief Moose, the former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. All that is coming up this hour.
But let's move on to some other news now. We have more on that triple murder and apparent suicide at the University of Arizona that we mentioned at the top of the hour.
Terry Gonzalez of CNN Affiliate KGUN is joining us now live with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TERRY GONZALEZ, KGUN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tucson Police and University of Arizona Police report that at 8:35 this morning, a gunman walked into a classroom here at the U of A School of Nursing and opened fire. We understand the gunman was a disgruntled student who had apparently failed some classes and had not gotten his degree as he had hoped.
Witnesses who were in the classroom tell us that the student walked in, told one of the professors to make her peace with God and then shot her several times. We understand he then shot another professor several times. A third victim was shot and killed, though we don't know whether that third victim is a student or professor or a staff who was inside the U of A College of Nursing at that time.
Again, four people dead here in Tucson at the U of A College of Nursing. One of those four, the gunman who is dead from a self- inflicted gunshot wound. Tucson Police found a backpack underneath the gunman's body and that caused them to do a full sweep of the area and of the building. They also tell us the gunman had made some sort of threat that he was going to blow up the School of Nursing in recent weeks. That, of course, caused extra alarm. Police had then a sweep of this entire area and have found no explosives. At this hour, they continue to try and secure the scene.
(on camera): Again, four people shot dead in what appears to be the act of a gunman who was disgruntled, a former student here at the U of A College of Nursing.
Reporting from Tucson, Arizona for CNN, I'm Terry Gonzalez.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thank you very much Terry. Other people on campus heard of a slightly different motive for the killings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR SALEM, BOYFRIEND OF WITNESS: I guess the student, Bob, he was around 30 years old. He was kind of the older guy in the class, and he was taking the class a second time. And he went in, I guess, about five or ten minutes late for his midterm and the teacher proceeded to tell him he was late for his midterm and he couldn't take it, and I guess he lost his cool and ended up, you know, shooting the teachers numerous times.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: They told him he couldn't take his midterm?
SALEM: Yes, the teachers told him he couldn't take his midterm and that was, you know, the motive for the whole thing. And, you know, after he shot the teachers numerous times, of course, everyone was in shock and he proceeded to tell the class to calm down and everything would be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The gunman is being identified as Robert Stuart Florez (ph). He's said to be in his 40s and a Gulf War veteran and a Licensed Practical Nurse who had been working for the Veterans Administration Healthcare System.
There was a shooting overseas today as well. Americans in Jordan are being urged to exercise maximum caution after a U.S. diplomat was gunned down today outside his home in Amman. CNN's Jerrold Kessel has the story from the Jordanian capitol. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 62-year-old U.S. diplomat was gunned down at his house in the sedate Amman neighborhood at 7:20 in the morning. He was just preparing to get into his car to drive to work when the gunman struck. Laurence Foley died on the spot, eight bullets from a .07 mm pistol at close range.
The assailant made his getaway as Foley's shocked wife, Virginia, discovering the body in their driveway alerted Jordanian Police. No claim of responsibility but plenty of shock in a place long regarded as one of the Middle East's safest capitols.
Olive trees dominate the front yard of the Foley residence. This is the first killing of a western diplomat in Jordan. No security either and the shock is compounded by the fact that Laurence "Larry" Foley was universally regarded by colleagues as a man who only wanted to help others.
EDWARD GNEHM, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JORDAN: Larry represents the very best in America, a man dedicated to his country and to helping other people. Larry was beloved in this community. He and his wife Virginia loved Jordan.
KESSEL: U.S. Ambassador Edward Gnehm choked back tears as he recalled Foley's service that went back to the 1960s in the U.S. Peace Corps in India. But, as people called at the house to pay condolences, the ambassador was not willing to be drawn in any way whatsoever with regard to motive or the possible identity of the assailant.
GNEHM: Right, at this point in time we're not making any assumptions.
KESSEL: As the cleanup was continuing, the Jordanian hierarchy from King Abdullah down expressed condolences. Jordanian leaders called it an isolated incident, not reflective of the mood in their country.
KESSEL (on camera): But the concern goes beyond the attack itself because what has been exposed here is the fragility of the situation of Jordan, a key U.S. ally in the region at what is a very volatile time in the Middle East.
Jerrold Kessel CNN, Amman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Back here in the Washington area, the sniper suspects, they're accused of being cold-blooded killers who murdered from their car, but is this odd couple responsible for more crimes around the country; an in-depth look at the investigation.
Also, reservists put on alert. Thousands may be called to serve if the U.S. goes to war against Iraq. Are there enough people to go around? And nature unleashes a furious wall of fire, the view from Mount Etna still to come; but first, a look at some other news making headlines "Around the World."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Irate supporters of Indonesian Muslim Leader Abu Baktar Basir (ph) clashed with police when he was removed from a hospital. He was flown to the capitol, Jakarta, to be questioned about alleged links to a terrorist group suspected in the bombing in Bali that killed almost 200 people. He is not a suspect in the October 12th Bali attack.
A huge win and huge problems for Brazil's first ever elected leftist president. Luis da Silva's Worker's Party won an overwhelming victory in yesterday's runoff election. The former trade union leader takes over at a time of soaring unemployment, plummeting wages, and market turmoil that's crippled the currency.
Deadly windstorms lashed Britain and parts of Europe yesterday killing two dozen people. Many victims were killed by falling trees uprooted by wind gusts over 100 miles an hour.
For glory to be first for the record, whatever the reason more than 100 runners took part in the inaugural world championship power run in Malaysia's capitol Kuala Lumpur. The race began with an uphill 800 meter run before a climb of 2,058 steps, and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Authorities tell "TIME" magazine they're trying to determine if the sniper suspects are linked to other serious crimes. "TIME" magazine Senior Correspondent Michael Weisskopf broke the story. He's joining me now live.
Michael, I know that they've been looking at these other unsolved crimes. Do they suspect that there were some?
MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Possibly, Wolf. They're trying to retrace the path of these guys from Washington State down south and back up the East Coast thinking that they probably survived off of what they could steal, and there's always a chance robberies could go bad as it did in Montgomery, Alabama.
BLITZER: They're looking at other unsolved murder cases as well though.
WEISSKOPF: Yes. For instance, there are a lot of them in Louisiana and some of them in Indiana as well and areas between Washington State and Washington.
BLITZER: In your reporting, what is the best sense that you can get about the motive for these killings, because there was a $10 million request, demand that was made, but that was only after a lot of people already had been killed? WEISSKOPF: Motive is subject to so much speculation, but our best analysis is there is a crashing conflict between this man's delusions of grandeur.
BLITZER: John Muhammad?
WEISSKOPF: Yes in which he described himself as everything from the owner of a gym to a CIA agent and a music producer as well, and his reality, the poverty he found himself in, the fact that he at one point had to live off of his meager income from his ex-wife, the fact that he couldn't get a job for many, many months. That kind of conflict, we believe, a tremendous amount of irritating him and creating rage in him.
The other thinking is that unlike a lot of serial killers who are triggered by a sexual thing, he seemed to be triggered by the need to control, particularly children. He lost two sets of children in divorce cases, even after trying to leave the country with them or take them away from the mother for a long period of time, and that also was a tremendous compelling need of his.
BLITZER: When you've done your investigation together with the other "TIME" magazine colleagues as to who actually pulled the trigger, who was the shooter? What have you come up with?
WEISSKOPF: You know there's no way of knowing. You can't track fingerprints because both of their fingers are probably all over both of those guns. The only way you could tell is having an eyewitness report, and the eyewitnesses were never that close and these guys operated from the back of the car anyway. So, anyone who says they know who the trigger man is without a confession is really speculating.
BLITZER: Because yesterday when I spoke to the Montgomery County Prosecutor Doug Gansler, he said they're working under the assumption that both of these guys at some point, you know, were involved in actually pulling that trigger.
WEISSKOPF: Both or either.
BLITZER: But it does make a difference as far as the death penalty is concerned.
WEISSKOPF: It certainly does, especially for the juvenile in this case, Mr. Malvo and in a state like Maryland, for instance, you can't execute somebody under 18, Virginia you can. The federal government permits it as well.
BLITZER: But even in Virginia, you have to prove that somebody actually pulled the trigger.
WEISSKOPF: That's right, yes.
BLITZER: So, that would be the burden on the state to prove that John Malvo actually pulled the trigger.
WEISSKOPF: As well as premeditation. That's the other condition.
BLITZER: Still a lot of unanswered questions. You guys are continuing your investigation?
WEISSKOPF: Sure.
BLITZER: We are at CNN as well. Thank you very much Michael Weisskopf from our sister publication "TIME Magazine."
And, the Pentagon is prepared to call up thousands of reservists, find out why these military backups may be called upon to protect the homeland in case of a war with Iraq.
Plus, anthrax attacks, new speculation that more than one person may have been involved, a closer look at where the investigation stands.
And Winona Ryder on trial. Opening statements in Beverly Hills.
But first, in case you were out enjoying these beautiful days, here's our "Weekend Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Tens of thousands of people protested in Washington against a possible U.S. led war against Iraq. Similar demonstrations were held in other U.S. cities and around the world.
Two small planes collided over South Florida killing two people aboard one of them. The pilot of the other plane managed to land on a highway. That person and the passenger suffered minor injuries.
They're cleaning up along Mexico's Pacific Coast, which took a beating from Hurricane Kenna. The storm was the most powerful to hit the area in decades with winds of 145 miles an hour.
It was no hurricane but an intense downpour that flooded the field where Rhode Island was hosting Richmond. The game was suspended at halftime. Speaking of suspended, the Lakers Rick Fox and the Kings Doug Christie may soon be. They got into it on the court where both were thrown out and then got into it again outside a locker room. The entire Kings' bench joined in that one.
And, the Anaheim Angels won their first World Series in the team's 42-year history. They beat the San Francisco Giants 4-1 in Game 7, and that's our "Weekend Snapshot."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
There's a hot debate within the Pentagon over how many reservists should be mobilized if the United States goes to war against Iraq. Sources tell CNN the number will be more than 100,000 and that the key assignment will actually be to provide security on the home front. But, members of the National Guard and Reserves are also expected to play a key role in a post-war occupation force in Iraq. Because of the numbers involved, call-ups could begin well ahead of a war.
Saying they want explicit authority, the top U.N. weapons inspectors today urged a divided U.N. Security Council to give them a clear mandate to disarm Iraq. The White House, meanwhile, argued that the U.N. has debated long enough on an inspections resolution saying the time has come for a vote, even though a measure backed by the United States and Britain is not assured of passage. President Bush has repeatedly warned that if the U.N. does not act to disarm Iraq, the U.S. will lead a coalition to do so.
The Iraqi government is accusing the Bush administration of trying to colonize that country. For the latest in Baghdad, we go live to our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson. He's joining us now live. He's facing expulsion together with a lot of other colleagues. What's the latest on that front -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the expulsions as they're being cast in some places, Iraqi officials here say not expulsions putting into place an old rule that's been dormant for many years that journalists and anyone else who comes here, they come in on a ten-day visa. That visa needs to be extended after ten days.
Well they're saying they're putting that rule into effect now, that at the end of that ten-day period, you have to leave the country. My visa expires, it actually expires today. It's already in the early hours of Tuesday morning here in Baghdad. Baghdad Bureau Chief Jane Arraf, her visa has expired. She drove out to neighboring Jordan over this night.
So, we will be reducing our staff here in Baghdad. Rym Brahimi, one of other correspondents, her visa doesn't expire for a few weeks. She'll be able to stay with Darren Ball (ph) one of our cameramen here. So, we will have a presence here but like many news organizations, our visas are coming to the end of their limit and Iraqi authorities say when that happens you have to leave. You can reapply, they say. We wait and see.
BLITZER: So, Nic, based on all of your reporting since you've been there, everyplace you've gone, the people you've seen, do the Iraqis seem to be prepared for war?
ROBERTSON: There isn't panic but people are anxious about the situation. They have kept more money at home. People have more weapons in their possession these days. Perhaps people have a little more money at home. Certainly with all this talk, it raises the level of anxiety. The Iraqi government very keen in their newspapers and publications on the television to present a picture of calm, to present a picture of the government being in control, hence the outstanding victory for President Saddam Hussein in his referendum.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson, good luck to you, good luck to all of our colleagues, both at CNN and all the other international news organizations as well. Thank you very much for that report.
The teenage sniper suspect, should he be tried as an adult? More on the background of this young man accused of murder.
Plus, John Muhammad, hear his voice for the first time.
Also, the pressure on the chief of police. What Charles Moose went through from a man who knows what it's like to lead a force, the former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. He'll join me live.
And, the big bang, amazing pictures from the heart of Mount Etna.
But first today's "News Quiz." Which volcano is the world's most deadly? Tambora in Indonesia, Vesuvius in Italy, Etna in Italy, St. Helens here in the United States? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
Coming up sniper investigation, why did police chase that apparently non-existent white van? More on that, that's coming up in a moment, but first, a look at some other stories making news right now.
An 18-year-old Oklahoma man is being held without bail in connection with a weekend shooting spree. Daniel Fears is suspected in a rampage that left two people dead and eight injured in this small hometown. Police say it happened after a man scolded the high school senior for driving recklessly with children nearby. The man who scolded Fears was among those shot.
The shoplifting trial of actress Winona Ryder is underway in Los Angeles. In opening statements today, prosecutors said Ryder walked into a Beverly Hills department store last December with the intent to steal but Ryder's attorney said the case is about security guards who were out of control. Ryder is accused of Grand Theft, Burglary, and Vandalism.
The FBI says the overall crime rate in the United States is on the rise. It increased a little more than two percent last year. That's the first year-to-year increase in a decade. Murders were up 2 1/2 percent, forcable rapes less than 1 percent and robberies almost 4 percent.
There are more charges today against the suspects in the Washington area sniper case. Capital murder charges were filed in Virginia. One of the surprises in the case was the fact that the suspects were arrested in a Chevrolet Caprice, not in the white truck or van mentioned so frequently during the investigation. CNN's Jeanne Meserve has been looking into that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Karl Largie was on break from his job at the Tropicana Restaurant, sitting in the parking lot around the corner from the shooting when heard a loud pop and saw a vehicle.
KARL LARGIE, SHOOTING WITNESS: I saw like a car moved off from behind these trees here and it just moved off slowly without the lights on.
MESERVE: Largie identified the car as a dark Chevy Caprice. It would have had a clear line of sight to the victim in this shooting. The information from Largie and other witnesses at the Tropicana was relayed to a D.C. homicide detective. And on October 7, a teletype was issued to all local law enforcement to look out for an older model Chevy Caprice or vehicle of similar style, burgundy colored, four-door with dark tinted windows.
But based on witness testimony from other shootings, the task force continued to look for a white truck or a white van. Largie says he never heard from anyone on the sniper task force, although he says he approached investigators at the scene with his theory that the shooter had to have been inside the car, not across the street where they were looking for evidence.
LARGIE: They did not seem interested or -- in any way wanted to hear. I mean they didn't really look interested in that.
MESERVE: Task force head, Charles Moose, was asked this weekend about why more attention wasn't give to the Caprice.
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: Well, for any number of reasons and certainly, I'm not here to try to defend that and I was also somewhere in the investigation told that we had located that, that it had been somehow abandoned.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: D.C. Detective Anthony Patterson who issued the lookout for the Caprice says Moose, quote, "got some bad information." He says an abandoned burned out car was found in the days after the lookout was issued, but Patterson checked it out himself and says it was not a Chevy. It was not the vehicle seen near the Tropicana. As far as he's concerned, his witness' testimony was good but got lost in the system. He says, "I don't know what happened to the information. It was out there" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeanne Meserve, good reporting. Thank you very much for that report.
And as we've reported before, the sniper suspect, John Muhammad, used to go by the name John Allen Williams. CNN has obtained a recording of the hearing in which he had his name changed.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Mr. Williams, you just need to have your name changed?
MUHAMMAD: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what is your current legal name?
MUHAMMAD: My current legal name is John Allen Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the new name by which you wish to be known?
MUHAMMAD: John Allen Muhammad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why do you desire to be known by this new name?
MUHAMMAD: For, religious purposes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you changing your name for any other reason?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you changing your name to defraud or mislead any person or creditor?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you involved in any legal proceeding other than this name change?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you ever been convicted of a felony?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you under supervision of any probation department that requires you to report a change of address?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll go ahead and grant your name change.
MUHAMMAD: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can go back out to the front counter to your paperwork up front, OK?
MUHAMMAD: So I don't need to look at it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you don't.
MUHAMMAD: I don't need to show you no paperwork? I don't need to bring any witnesses or anything else? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 5:00?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we can't. We need to go home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yours is pretty simple.
MUHAMMAD: I feel cheated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, these are fairly routine.
MUHAMMAD: All right, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BLITZER: The Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan has confirmed that Muhammad is a member of the church. Farrakhan says Muhammad will be expelled if he's convicted in connection with the sniping deaths.
The public point man during the massive manhunt for snipers was Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose. He projected many moods and attitudes from tough cop and media critic to an emotional father figure trying to reassure a very frightened public. Joining us now to talk about Chief Moose's role during the crisis, the former New York City police commissioner, Bernard Kerik. He's also the author of the book, "The Lost Son."
Commissioner, thanks very much for joining us. When you watched Chief Moose's performance over these weeks, what went through your mind?
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, I think I'd have to think back to September 11, dealing with the multitude of different agencies, the different jurisdictional issues, the operational issues.
This is a man that had to deal with five, probably seven to nine, maybe federal agencies. He was dealing with a military component. He was dealing with two state jurisdictions, several municipalities. An extremely, extremely difficult job when the daily pressures, the daily shootings that were occurring were still going on. I can understand how difficult his job was at the time, I guess.
BLITZER: You probably remember at one point we saw tears flowing down his cheeks. Other points he was scolding us in the news media for releasing certain information. What kind of grades would you give him though overall as the leader of this multi-jurisdictional task force?
KERIK: Well, I'd say his grades would have to be extremely high. You know, you're dealing with all of these issues I just mentioned. Then you have the media, of course. And then you have every critic under the sun that usually has no idea what you're going through, no idea of the day-to-day needs, the operational needs. I have to give him pretty high grades with regard to leadership and getting Montgomery County through this difficult ordeal.
BLITZER: You heard Jeanne Meserve's piece. The white vans apparently never really existed as the killing machines or that white box truck. The Chevy Caprice, of course, as we all now know, based on what the police are telling us, was used. How do you explain that apparent screw up?
KERIK: Well, I think, Wolf, you have to go back to the evidence, talked about initially in the investigation. There was mention of a white van in the first few shootings. And then later on there were witnesses that, again, saw a white type truck, a white box truck.
This van and box truck, the truck seemed to come up time after time. You don't know if this was intentional. You don't know if the witnesses -- you don't know the credibility of the witnesses that that gave the information, the explanation for why some of the evidence was missed over, the Caprice at one of the shootings, I saw just a few minutes ago. You know, thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence, thousands of witnesses that are interviewed.
These things go through a process, a protocol. And I think, you know if you talk about lessons learned from this event, September 11, it's a necessity for interagency coordinating centers, emergency command centers, interoperability of radios, communications. These things will make these events go better in the future. And now that terrorism has come to this country, and it is really here to stay, we have to look at this in the future.
BLITZER: If you take a look at the whole nature of all these -- the battle that's under way now -- who should get first crack at prosecuting these two suspects, you've been involved in a lot of homicide investigations, who do you believe should be first in line?
KERIK: Well, I would say first in line would be if I'm not mistaken, Montgomery County -- had the most of the shootings, was the initial -- where the initial shootings occurred. I'd say they should -- in my opinion, they should be first. But I think the prosecutors and the state agencies, they should look at what Moose tried to do with regard to leading the different enforcement jurisdictions and take the same tact.
BLITZER: And at this point, do you think both of them should be eligible for the death penalty, including the 17-year-old John Malvo?
KERIK: In my opinion, yes, I do.
BLITZER: All right, Bernard Kerik, as usual, thanks for your insight, appreciate it very much.
KERIK: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
And the anthrax terror attacks still no arrests but new indications that more than one person may -- repeat may have been involved. Plus, Russian troops gas a theater full of hostages leaving 115 people dead. The fallout from a bungled rescue still to come. And that's our "Question of the Day": do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Well last year's deadly anthrax attacks here in the United States, the work of one person? That's the apparent theory investigators say they're pursuing. But today's "Washington Post" reports, and CNN has previously reported a growing number of experts are casting some doubt on that theory. They say the methods used were too sophisticated and too costly to be the work of a loan terrorist.
I'm joined here in our Washington studio by Pat Clawson. He's the spokesman for Steven Hatfill. He's the former Army scientist whom the Justice Department calls a, quote, "person of interest" in the anthrax investigation.
Thanks again, Pat, for coming on. I want you to listen to an excerpt of an exchange I had with Richard Spertzle, who's an expert on biological, chemical warfare, a former U.N. weapons inspector. I had this excerpt -- I had this with him a month ago. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So you're skeptical about this so-called person of interest, Steven Hatfill, identified by the attorney general as a person of interest in this investigation of the anthrax letter attacks?
RICHARD SPERTZEL, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Absolutely. Of the one or two methods that could be used to make the quality of product that was seen in those letters is well beyond the capability of a single or even a small group acting in isolation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, your friend and, I don't know if he's your client, but your friend Steven Hatfill has adamantly denied any involvement in these anthrax attacks yet he continues to be pursued as a potential, I guess, suspect by the Justice Department.
PAUL CLAWSON, HATFILL'S SPOKESMAN: Well, the FBI investigation of Dr. Hatfill has been unrelenting. I mean they're still all over him all the time.
There's something very interesting about the "Washington Post" report that came out today. And it's not the conclusion that many scientists believe that more than one person was involved. It is the information being revealed about the special additive that was in the anthrax, this was a special form of silica and it's been known to be used by the Iraqi bioweapons program, not by the American program.
BLITZER: Did Steven Hatfill have any access to this kind of sophisticated material?
CLAWSON: Steven Hatfill has stated many times he has never worked with anthrax. He's had no contact with anthrax and he knows nothing at all about the anthrax attacks. BLITZER: As of this moment, is he still being investigated based on everything you know?
CLAWSON: He is indeed being investigated. He had some meetings last week with investigators and the FBI continues its scrutiny of him almost around the clock.
BLITZER: He is cooperating?
CLAWSON: Oh yes, absolutely. He has given the FBI everything that they've asked.
BLITZER: What is his suspicion? Who is responsible for these anthrax attacks because he is after all a scientist and he's an expert on these kinds of matters?
CLAWSON: The truth of the matter is, Wolf, we don't have a clue. Steven Hatfill doesn't have a clue who's responsible for the anthrax...
BLITZER: But does he -- but you mentioned the Iraqi connection. Why raise the whole issue of the Iraqis? Is there any evidence to suggest they may have been responsible for this thing?
CLAWSON: Well, the Iraqis ordered over 100 metric tons of the special form of silica that was mixed up with the anthrax, according to today's reports in the "Washington Post." I mean that certainly points a finger in a direction that the FBI ought to be looking.
BLITZER: Is Steven Hatfill going forward with lawsuits?
CLAWSON: He is discussing lawsuits with his council at this point in time. I can't tell you exactly when they will be filed, but I would expect that several lawsuits will be filed.
BLITZER: All right, Pat Clawson, thanks for joining us.
CLAWSON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
A hostage crisis leads to a bungled rescue. Who should be held accountable and why won't the Russians come clean about a mystery gas? And a volcanic eruption on Mount Etna, an amazing view of nature's firry fiery. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: About 400 former hostages remain hospitalized in Russia today including nine children. One hundred fifteen others died during a weekend raid on a Moscow theater aimed at winning their freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Russian flags flew at half-staff in memory of the hostages who died in the Moscow theater standoff. But some critics say the Kremlin was at least partly to blame for those deaths.
Chechen rebels had been holding about 800 hostages almost two and a half days when Russian forces made their move on Saturday. In a bid to disable the hostage takers, the Russians gassed the theater. A Russian reporter was talking to a hostage on a cell phone asking about the gas just as the troops began moving in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER (through translator): Is it tear gas? What's happening with the people? Can you see it? Can you feel it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I beg you, I don't know. We see it. We feel it. We are breathing through clothes.
That's it. Oh, God. We're all going to fly to kingdom come. Our forces have begun it.
BLITZER: Stunned and subdued by the gas, the Chechens reportedly put up little resistance. In the end, authorities said 50 hostage takers were dead, but so were dozens of hostages, victims of the gas used for their rescue.
LEV FYODOROV, CHEMICAL WEAPONS EXPERT (through translator): The substance is of the type of incapacitating agent, are intended for a healthy, potential adversary, a man in his prime who's heart, liver, and kidneys tolerate such substances.
This is clear, but in this case, represented in the hall were all groups of people including those suffering from heart, liver or kidney problems. They could have died due to the overdose.
BLITZER: The government said the hostage deaths were tragic but unavoidable, and some of the surviving hostages agree.
ANDREI KAUMOV, FORMER HOSTAGE: I think without the gas everyone would be dead, everyone -- every hostage will be killed.
BLITZER: Russian authorities would not say exactly that kind of gas they used, complicating efforts to treat former hostages suffering from its effects. That drew criticism even from some Russians who supporting gassing the theater in the first place.
ALEXI ARBATOV, RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I blame the authorities for not providing the doctors with antidotes and instructions on how to use them. That is certainly a great blunder and many people are paying for the blunder with their health and some even with their life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: With the Kremlin maintaining its silence, there's lot of speculation over what kind of gas was used in the Moscow theater assault. U.S government sources tell CNN the gas may have contained a chemical building block found in heroine or morphine-based agents. Michael Powers is an associate with the Chemical and Biological Arms Control Institute, a private group here in Washington. I wanted to invite him to get his take on what happened. What kind of gas do you think, based on the descriptions you've heard, was used?
MICHAEL POWERS, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL ARMS CONTROL INSTITUTE: Well, there are two candidates that have been discussed frequently -- as you've mentioned, the morphine-based substance. The other additive or the other substance that's' been frequently referred to is a chemical agent known as BZ, an incapacitating agent developed by the military for use against deployed forces.
BLITZER: That's a nerve gas?
POWERS: That's -- well, it's not a nerve gas. It affects the nervous system, but it's really designed not to kill but to incapacitate by causing hallucinations in those affected by the gas.
BLITZER: Why won't the Russians simply tell us what kind of gas they used?
POWERS: It's an excellent question. It's difficult at this point to accurately answer that question, really because I think the Russians are trying to determine whether or not this fits within the confines of the CWC and whether or not that agreement controls this particular agent. I think the Russians...
BLITZER: The CWC being the Chemical World (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
POWERS: Right, the Chemical Weapon Convention bans the use of chemical weapons. And I think in this particular case, the Russians haven't made an accurate determination of whether or not that agent is captured by the provisions of the CWC.
BLITZER: So in other words, if they used a certain chemical that was banned by the Convention, the Chemical Weapons Convention, they would be in violation of an international treaty?
POWERS: Absolutely correct. And I think internally, they're probably going through a fairly rigorous review, both legal reviews, scientific review, to figure out whether or not this particular agent fits or falls underneath the purview of that convention.
BLITZER: Does that convention or treaty apply to their own people or to -- only to outside -- in wars with other countries?
POWERS: Well, it basically bans the use of toxic substances at large as a military tool. The only provision that allows -- or the provision within the treaty allows for the use of riot control agents with -- for law enforcement purposes. In that particular instance, it would be allowable and in any other circumstance, it would be a violation.
BLITZER: There's some speculation that they used the gas but they used it in a dose that was much too powerful. They simply didn't have the right doses that they should have used.
POWERS: That's one of the speculations that I've heard as well, but without knowing what agent was used, it's hard to determine whether or not they used too much of the agent or used it in incorrect proportions.
BLITZER: Is there any sense that -- they made a huge blunder obviously by not giving the antidote to the doctors who are treating these hundreds of people?
POWERS: Obviously that would have been crucial in terms of saving the lives, saving the hostages and reducing the fatalities associated with it, obviously, a huge blunder.
BLITZER: But is there an antidote for example, BZ?
POWERS: There is an antidote for BZ, but importantly, this particular substance does not cause fatalities, it does not cause permanent harm. It's an incapacitating agent. So really even without treatment, the effect should wear off within a short amount of time.
BLITZER: As far as you know, is using gas in a hostage kind of situation like this normal standard procedure?
POWERS: Well, the use of tear gas or similar sorts of agents are very common. In this particular type of agent where human lives are -- people are killed and long-term effects are present physically, that is very rare and unusual and is the source of some of the questions.
BLITZER: Do you think tear gas might have been the weapon of choice in this particular case?
POWERS: Perhaps.
BLITZER: Obviously not. Michael Powers, thanks for your expertise.
POWERS: Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- Do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? We'll have results later in this broadcast. Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote. While you're there, I'd like to hear directly from you. Send me your comments, your questions. We'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also of course where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results of our "Web Question" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked, which volcano is the world's most deadly? The answer Tambora in Indonesia. It claimed more than 90,000 lives back in 1815.
Our "Picture of The Day" takes us to Sicily and spectacular scenes of Europe's most active volcano. Look at this. Mount Etna still spitting fire after reawakening yesterday. The latest eruption came after a series of earthquakes. So far nearby towns are said to be safe from the red-hot lava streams.
Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Questions of The Day." Earlier we asked, do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? Thirty-three percent of you say yes, 67 percent of you say no. You can find the exact vote tally -- continue to vote by the way on my Website, cnn.com/wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
Let's get to your e-mail. Jean is writing this: "The photo of Muhammad and Malvo the media show is obviously an old one. Malvo is certainly no longer the young, smiling child we see in that picture. Why don't you find a more recent photo that shows him as the mass killer he is today?"
Mike asks this: "Why is it so important for all these jurisdictions to charge the snipers? Don't we just want them convicted and sentenced to death? Stop wasting taxpayers' money. Let one jurisdiction prosecute them and send them to death."
Sarah agrees: "The squabble over which state will prosecute the sniper suspects seems to be motivated by the political ambitions of some of the officials involved."
That's all the time we have today. Please join me again tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Please join me at noon Eastern as well for "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" every day. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
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Sniper Suspects; U.S. Diplomat Killed in Jordan Today>
Aired October 28, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR (voice-over): Turf battle, more counties file charges in the sniper shootings.
KIRBY PORTER, VA. COMMONWEALTH'S ATTY.: We intend to prosecute the 17-year-old as an adult.
BLITZER: Hear his voice in court.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your current legal name?
JOHN ALLEN MUHAMMAD, SNIPER SUSPECT: My current legal name is John Allen Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the new name by which you wish to be known?
JOHN ALLEN MUHAMMAD: John Allen Muhammad.
BLITZER: Is there another weapon? Were there other crimes?
A U.S. diplomat gunned down in Jordan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This incident, if anything, will make us more cooperative with the United States in the fight against terrorists.
BLITZER: Inside a theater held hostage and the moment a deadly gas came in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We could see and taste it but after this gas, I laid on the floor under the cot. I laid and remember nothing.
BLITZER: What secret chemicals killed more than 100 hostages? Today, there are clues.
Rethinking the anthrax attacks, was it a lone killer or state sponsored terrorism?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: It's Monday, October 28, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Who will try the Washington area sniper suspects first? That's the key question as the legal tussle continues and more charges that carry the death penalty are filed against the two suspects, John Muhammad and John Lee Malvo. Our Justice Kelli Arena is joining us now with the latest sense of what's going on -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it is already very messy. Prosecutors from seven jurisdictions where the sniper attacks took place are involved in a legal tug of war over who gets to go to court first.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): At least four counties in Maryland and Virginia are filing charges in the sniper case against John Allen Muhammad and the 17-year-old John Lee Malvo.
PORTER: The Grand Jury for the Circuit Court of Hanover County has returned indictments against John Allen Muhammad on all counts. Identical charges have been brought against the 17-year-old male.
ARENA: In Virginia, the two men are facing death penalty eligible charges of Murder. Sources say even if it can't be proved that Malvo was a trigger man, there is a new terrorism statute that prosecutors may try to apply. In Maryland, a death penalty sentence is less certain.
Under charges already filed, Muhammad faces the death penalty in Maryland, but because Malvo is a minor, he does not. According to federal sources, the death penalty is key to which jurisdiction is likely to try the men first, and those sources say Maryland is not likely to be chosen.
DICK THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: There seems to be a growing consensus among law enforcement officials and, I might add, among the general public that if the death penalty is to be utilized, this is the kind of case that it ought to be reserved for, where there's a willful, premeditated killing.
ARENA: But six of the ten people killed were shot in Montgomery County, Maryland. Officials there say there are compelling reasons they should have the first crack.
DOUGLAS GANSLER, MARYLAND STATE'S ATTY.: Our community, Montgomery County, was disproportionately affected by these shootings and we feel that we need to begin the healing process as soon as possible.
ARENA: The two men remain in federal custody. Justice Department officials say that gives them the right to decide which jurisdiction goes first. Justice sources also say federal charges could be filed that would rope all the cases together under an extortion charge that includes murder, a move some critics dismiss.
MARK HULKOWER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: What this case is about is murder. It's not about extortion or anything like that and these cases should be tried as murder cases.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Now sources say that, a course of action could be decided as early as tomorrow -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, she's covering the story for us, thanks very much.
ARENA: You're welcome.
BLITZER: And joining us now to talk a little bit more about the legal aspects of this case, the Attorney General of Virginia Jerry Kilgore. He's joining us now live from Richmond. Mr. Attorney General thanks so much for joining us. You heard Doug Gansler, the attorney in Montgomery County, say they lost six people in Maryland. Why should Virginia try these guys first?
JERRY KILGORE, VIRGINIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: You know it's about judicial resources, Wolf. You know, we have the death penalty in Virginia. It's tested and true in Virginia. We have prosecutors that have attained the death penalty in previous cases. They are ready and willing to try these individuals in Virginia. I'm hopeful that the prosecutors can all get together and work this out much as the law enforcement community were able to work together in apprehending. We ought to be able to work together in prosecuting.
BLITZER: Well, is there any discussion underway between you, your colleagues in Maryland, the District of Columbia and from the Justice Department?
KILGORE: Certainly, we've been in contact with the Justice Department from Day One working with the Justice Department to try to bring a resolution to this. The Justice Department wants exactly what we want, everyone to get together and make an informed decision on the best way to go with this case.
BLITZER: Do you know for sure how old John Lee Malvo really is? There's some dispute whether he's 17 or perhaps 18.
KILGORE: You know, we're being cautious in Virginia and the counties that have already filed charges are charging him as a juvenile just to be on the safe side so that we can then transfer that case, try him as an adult, and subject him to the same penalties that the other individual is facing.
BLITZER: Eight-six people have been executed by my count in Virginia since 1976 when the death penalty was approved, as you know, by the U.S. Supreme Court. Have you ever executed someone who was a juvenile at the time of the crime?
KILGORE: Yes, we have, four since the year 2000 have been executed when their crimes were committed as a juvenile and we say that, you know, it makes no difference to a victim whether the assailant was 17 years old or 18 years old. You know what makes it...
BLITZER: Go ahead.
KILGORE: ...you know, the difference, you know a crime has been committed against the Commonwealth of Virginia.
BLITZER: But crimes have also been committed against the State of Maryland. How do you balance that, three people killed in Virginia, six people killed in Maryland?
KILGORE: You know I don't think we should get into a balancing act here. I think we should all get together and decide based upon judicial economy which state can proceed the quickest, which state has a track record in death penalty cases, and which state's death penalty statutes have been tested and tried in the appellate courts.
BLITZER: Do you agree, though, with your counterparts in Maryland that the federal government, the Justice Department should stay out of it and either let Maryland or Virginia handle this death penalty or the murder cases?
KILGORE: You know, the Justice Department has been a great partner to Virginia in this case. You know we want the Justice Department involved with us sorting through the evidence, working with us over the next few days to make a determination on which jurisdiction ought to move forward first.
BLITZER: All right, Jerry Kilgore the Attorney General of Virginia thanks for joining us. Good luck to you as well.
KILGORE: Thank you. Thank you.
BLITZER: And could the sniper suspects be responsible for more shootings? "TIME" magazine correspondent Michael Weisskopf has that scoop and joins us at 15 past the hour.
Then at 35 after, the pressure is on the police chief. We'll talk to one man who understands what it's like to be Chief Moose, the former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. All that is coming up this hour.
But let's move on to some other news now. We have more on that triple murder and apparent suicide at the University of Arizona that we mentioned at the top of the hour.
Terry Gonzalez of CNN Affiliate KGUN is joining us now live with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TERRY GONZALEZ, KGUN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tucson Police and University of Arizona Police report that at 8:35 this morning, a gunman walked into a classroom here at the U of A School of Nursing and opened fire. We understand the gunman was a disgruntled student who had apparently failed some classes and had not gotten his degree as he had hoped.
Witnesses who were in the classroom tell us that the student walked in, told one of the professors to make her peace with God and then shot her several times. We understand he then shot another professor several times. A third victim was shot and killed, though we don't know whether that third victim is a student or professor or a staff who was inside the U of A College of Nursing at that time.
Again, four people dead here in Tucson at the U of A College of Nursing. One of those four, the gunman who is dead from a self- inflicted gunshot wound. Tucson Police found a backpack underneath the gunman's body and that caused them to do a full sweep of the area and of the building. They also tell us the gunman had made some sort of threat that he was going to blow up the School of Nursing in recent weeks. That, of course, caused extra alarm. Police had then a sweep of this entire area and have found no explosives. At this hour, they continue to try and secure the scene.
(on camera): Again, four people shot dead in what appears to be the act of a gunman who was disgruntled, a former student here at the U of A College of Nursing.
Reporting from Tucson, Arizona for CNN, I'm Terry Gonzalez.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thank you very much Terry. Other people on campus heard of a slightly different motive for the killings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OMAR SALEM, BOYFRIEND OF WITNESS: I guess the student, Bob, he was around 30 years old. He was kind of the older guy in the class, and he was taking the class a second time. And he went in, I guess, about five or ten minutes late for his midterm and the teacher proceeded to tell him he was late for his midterm and he couldn't take it, and I guess he lost his cool and ended up, you know, shooting the teachers numerous times.
UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: They told him he couldn't take his midterm?
SALEM: Yes, the teachers told him he couldn't take his midterm and that was, you know, the motive for the whole thing. And, you know, after he shot the teachers numerous times, of course, everyone was in shock and he proceeded to tell the class to calm down and everything would be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The gunman is being identified as Robert Stuart Florez (ph). He's said to be in his 40s and a Gulf War veteran and a Licensed Practical Nurse who had been working for the Veterans Administration Healthcare System.
There was a shooting overseas today as well. Americans in Jordan are being urged to exercise maximum caution after a U.S. diplomat was gunned down today outside his home in Amman. CNN's Jerrold Kessel has the story from the Jordanian capitol. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 62-year-old U.S. diplomat was gunned down at his house in the sedate Amman neighborhood at 7:20 in the morning. He was just preparing to get into his car to drive to work when the gunman struck. Laurence Foley died on the spot, eight bullets from a .07 mm pistol at close range.
The assailant made his getaway as Foley's shocked wife, Virginia, discovering the body in their driveway alerted Jordanian Police. No claim of responsibility but plenty of shock in a place long regarded as one of the Middle East's safest capitols.
Olive trees dominate the front yard of the Foley residence. This is the first killing of a western diplomat in Jordan. No security either and the shock is compounded by the fact that Laurence "Larry" Foley was universally regarded by colleagues as a man who only wanted to help others.
EDWARD GNEHM, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JORDAN: Larry represents the very best in America, a man dedicated to his country and to helping other people. Larry was beloved in this community. He and his wife Virginia loved Jordan.
KESSEL: U.S. Ambassador Edward Gnehm choked back tears as he recalled Foley's service that went back to the 1960s in the U.S. Peace Corps in India. But, as people called at the house to pay condolences, the ambassador was not willing to be drawn in any way whatsoever with regard to motive or the possible identity of the assailant.
GNEHM: Right, at this point in time we're not making any assumptions.
KESSEL: As the cleanup was continuing, the Jordanian hierarchy from King Abdullah down expressed condolences. Jordanian leaders called it an isolated incident, not reflective of the mood in their country.
KESSEL (on camera): But the concern goes beyond the attack itself because what has been exposed here is the fragility of the situation of Jordan, a key U.S. ally in the region at what is a very volatile time in the Middle East.
Jerrold Kessel CNN, Amman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Back here in the Washington area, the sniper suspects, they're accused of being cold-blooded killers who murdered from their car, but is this odd couple responsible for more crimes around the country; an in-depth look at the investigation.
Also, reservists put on alert. Thousands may be called to serve if the U.S. goes to war against Iraq. Are there enough people to go around? And nature unleashes a furious wall of fire, the view from Mount Etna still to come; but first, a look at some other news making headlines "Around the World."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Irate supporters of Indonesian Muslim Leader Abu Baktar Basir (ph) clashed with police when he was removed from a hospital. He was flown to the capitol, Jakarta, to be questioned about alleged links to a terrorist group suspected in the bombing in Bali that killed almost 200 people. He is not a suspect in the October 12th Bali attack.
A huge win and huge problems for Brazil's first ever elected leftist president. Luis da Silva's Worker's Party won an overwhelming victory in yesterday's runoff election. The former trade union leader takes over at a time of soaring unemployment, plummeting wages, and market turmoil that's crippled the currency.
Deadly windstorms lashed Britain and parts of Europe yesterday killing two dozen people. Many victims were killed by falling trees uprooted by wind gusts over 100 miles an hour.
For glory to be first for the record, whatever the reason more than 100 runners took part in the inaugural world championship power run in Malaysia's capitol Kuala Lumpur. The race began with an uphill 800 meter run before a climb of 2,058 steps, and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Authorities tell "TIME" magazine they're trying to determine if the sniper suspects are linked to other serious crimes. "TIME" magazine Senior Correspondent Michael Weisskopf broke the story. He's joining me now live.
Michael, I know that they've been looking at these other unsolved crimes. Do they suspect that there were some?
MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Possibly, Wolf. They're trying to retrace the path of these guys from Washington State down south and back up the East Coast thinking that they probably survived off of what they could steal, and there's always a chance robberies could go bad as it did in Montgomery, Alabama.
BLITZER: They're looking at other unsolved murder cases as well though.
WEISSKOPF: Yes. For instance, there are a lot of them in Louisiana and some of them in Indiana as well and areas between Washington State and Washington.
BLITZER: In your reporting, what is the best sense that you can get about the motive for these killings, because there was a $10 million request, demand that was made, but that was only after a lot of people already had been killed? WEISSKOPF: Motive is subject to so much speculation, but our best analysis is there is a crashing conflict between this man's delusions of grandeur.
BLITZER: John Muhammad?
WEISSKOPF: Yes in which he described himself as everything from the owner of a gym to a CIA agent and a music producer as well, and his reality, the poverty he found himself in, the fact that he at one point had to live off of his meager income from his ex-wife, the fact that he couldn't get a job for many, many months. That kind of conflict, we believe, a tremendous amount of irritating him and creating rage in him.
The other thinking is that unlike a lot of serial killers who are triggered by a sexual thing, he seemed to be triggered by the need to control, particularly children. He lost two sets of children in divorce cases, even after trying to leave the country with them or take them away from the mother for a long period of time, and that also was a tremendous compelling need of his.
BLITZER: When you've done your investigation together with the other "TIME" magazine colleagues as to who actually pulled the trigger, who was the shooter? What have you come up with?
WEISSKOPF: You know there's no way of knowing. You can't track fingerprints because both of their fingers are probably all over both of those guns. The only way you could tell is having an eyewitness report, and the eyewitnesses were never that close and these guys operated from the back of the car anyway. So, anyone who says they know who the trigger man is without a confession is really speculating.
BLITZER: Because yesterday when I spoke to the Montgomery County Prosecutor Doug Gansler, he said they're working under the assumption that both of these guys at some point, you know, were involved in actually pulling that trigger.
WEISSKOPF: Both or either.
BLITZER: But it does make a difference as far as the death penalty is concerned.
WEISSKOPF: It certainly does, especially for the juvenile in this case, Mr. Malvo and in a state like Maryland, for instance, you can't execute somebody under 18, Virginia you can. The federal government permits it as well.
BLITZER: But even in Virginia, you have to prove that somebody actually pulled the trigger.
WEISSKOPF: That's right, yes.
BLITZER: So, that would be the burden on the state to prove that John Malvo actually pulled the trigger.
WEISSKOPF: As well as premeditation. That's the other condition.
BLITZER: Still a lot of unanswered questions. You guys are continuing your investigation?
WEISSKOPF: Sure.
BLITZER: We are at CNN as well. Thank you very much Michael Weisskopf from our sister publication "TIME Magazine."
And, the Pentagon is prepared to call up thousands of reservists, find out why these military backups may be called upon to protect the homeland in case of a war with Iraq.
Plus, anthrax attacks, new speculation that more than one person may have been involved, a closer look at where the investigation stands.
And Winona Ryder on trial. Opening statements in Beverly Hills.
But first, in case you were out enjoying these beautiful days, here's our "Weekend Snapshot."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Tens of thousands of people protested in Washington against a possible U.S. led war against Iraq. Similar demonstrations were held in other U.S. cities and around the world.
Two small planes collided over South Florida killing two people aboard one of them. The pilot of the other plane managed to land on a highway. That person and the passenger suffered minor injuries.
They're cleaning up along Mexico's Pacific Coast, which took a beating from Hurricane Kenna. The storm was the most powerful to hit the area in decades with winds of 145 miles an hour.
It was no hurricane but an intense downpour that flooded the field where Rhode Island was hosting Richmond. The game was suspended at halftime. Speaking of suspended, the Lakers Rick Fox and the Kings Doug Christie may soon be. They got into it on the court where both were thrown out and then got into it again outside a locker room. The entire Kings' bench joined in that one.
And, the Anaheim Angels won their first World Series in the team's 42-year history. They beat the San Francisco Giants 4-1 in Game 7, and that's our "Weekend Snapshot."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
There's a hot debate within the Pentagon over how many reservists should be mobilized if the United States goes to war against Iraq. Sources tell CNN the number will be more than 100,000 and that the key assignment will actually be to provide security on the home front. But, members of the National Guard and Reserves are also expected to play a key role in a post-war occupation force in Iraq. Because of the numbers involved, call-ups could begin well ahead of a war.
Saying they want explicit authority, the top U.N. weapons inspectors today urged a divided U.N. Security Council to give them a clear mandate to disarm Iraq. The White House, meanwhile, argued that the U.N. has debated long enough on an inspections resolution saying the time has come for a vote, even though a measure backed by the United States and Britain is not assured of passage. President Bush has repeatedly warned that if the U.N. does not act to disarm Iraq, the U.S. will lead a coalition to do so.
The Iraqi government is accusing the Bush administration of trying to colonize that country. For the latest in Baghdad, we go live to our Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson. He's joining us now live. He's facing expulsion together with a lot of other colleagues. What's the latest on that front -- Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the expulsions as they're being cast in some places, Iraqi officials here say not expulsions putting into place an old rule that's been dormant for many years that journalists and anyone else who comes here, they come in on a ten-day visa. That visa needs to be extended after ten days.
Well they're saying they're putting that rule into effect now, that at the end of that ten-day period, you have to leave the country. My visa expires, it actually expires today. It's already in the early hours of Tuesday morning here in Baghdad. Baghdad Bureau Chief Jane Arraf, her visa has expired. She drove out to neighboring Jordan over this night.
So, we will be reducing our staff here in Baghdad. Rym Brahimi, one of other correspondents, her visa doesn't expire for a few weeks. She'll be able to stay with Darren Ball (ph) one of our cameramen here. So, we will have a presence here but like many news organizations, our visas are coming to the end of their limit and Iraqi authorities say when that happens you have to leave. You can reapply, they say. We wait and see.
BLITZER: So, Nic, based on all of your reporting since you've been there, everyplace you've gone, the people you've seen, do the Iraqis seem to be prepared for war?
ROBERTSON: There isn't panic but people are anxious about the situation. They have kept more money at home. People have more weapons in their possession these days. Perhaps people have a little more money at home. Certainly with all this talk, it raises the level of anxiety. The Iraqi government very keen in their newspapers and publications on the television to present a picture of calm, to present a picture of the government being in control, hence the outstanding victory for President Saddam Hussein in his referendum.
BLITZER: Nic Robertson, good luck to you, good luck to all of our colleagues, both at CNN and all the other international news organizations as well. Thank you very much for that report.
The teenage sniper suspect, should he be tried as an adult? More on the background of this young man accused of murder.
Plus, John Muhammad, hear his voice for the first time.
Also, the pressure on the chief of police. What Charles Moose went through from a man who knows what it's like to lead a force, the former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik. He'll join me live.
And, the big bang, amazing pictures from the heart of Mount Etna.
But first today's "News Quiz." Which volcano is the world's most deadly? Tambora in Indonesia, Vesuvius in Italy, Etna in Italy, St. Helens here in the United States? The answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer.
Coming up sniper investigation, why did police chase that apparently non-existent white van? More on that, that's coming up in a moment, but first, a look at some other stories making news right now.
An 18-year-old Oklahoma man is being held without bail in connection with a weekend shooting spree. Daniel Fears is suspected in a rampage that left two people dead and eight injured in this small hometown. Police say it happened after a man scolded the high school senior for driving recklessly with children nearby. The man who scolded Fears was among those shot.
The shoplifting trial of actress Winona Ryder is underway in Los Angeles. In opening statements today, prosecutors said Ryder walked into a Beverly Hills department store last December with the intent to steal but Ryder's attorney said the case is about security guards who were out of control. Ryder is accused of Grand Theft, Burglary, and Vandalism.
The FBI says the overall crime rate in the United States is on the rise. It increased a little more than two percent last year. That's the first year-to-year increase in a decade. Murders were up 2 1/2 percent, forcable rapes less than 1 percent and robberies almost 4 percent.
There are more charges today against the suspects in the Washington area sniper case. Capital murder charges were filed in Virginia. One of the surprises in the case was the fact that the suspects were arrested in a Chevrolet Caprice, not in the white truck or van mentioned so frequently during the investigation. CNN's Jeanne Meserve has been looking into that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Karl Largie was on break from his job at the Tropicana Restaurant, sitting in the parking lot around the corner from the shooting when heard a loud pop and saw a vehicle.
KARL LARGIE, SHOOTING WITNESS: I saw like a car moved off from behind these trees here and it just moved off slowly without the lights on.
MESERVE: Largie identified the car as a dark Chevy Caprice. It would have had a clear line of sight to the victim in this shooting. The information from Largie and other witnesses at the Tropicana was relayed to a D.C. homicide detective. And on October 7, a teletype was issued to all local law enforcement to look out for an older model Chevy Caprice or vehicle of similar style, burgundy colored, four-door with dark tinted windows.
But based on witness testimony from other shootings, the task force continued to look for a white truck or a white van. Largie says he never heard from anyone on the sniper task force, although he says he approached investigators at the scene with his theory that the shooter had to have been inside the car, not across the street where they were looking for evidence.
LARGIE: They did not seem interested or -- in any way wanted to hear. I mean they didn't really look interested in that.
MESERVE: Task force head, Charles Moose, was asked this weekend about why more attention wasn't give to the Caprice.
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: Well, for any number of reasons and certainly, I'm not here to try to defend that and I was also somewhere in the investigation told that we had located that, that it had been somehow abandoned.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: D.C. Detective Anthony Patterson who issued the lookout for the Caprice says Moose, quote, "got some bad information." He says an abandoned burned out car was found in the days after the lookout was issued, but Patterson checked it out himself and says it was not a Chevy. It was not the vehicle seen near the Tropicana. As far as he's concerned, his witness' testimony was good but got lost in the system. He says, "I don't know what happened to the information. It was out there" -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jeanne Meserve, good reporting. Thank you very much for that report.
And as we've reported before, the sniper suspect, John Muhammad, used to go by the name John Allen Williams. CNN has obtained a recording of the hearing in which he had his name changed.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Mr. Williams, you just need to have your name changed?
MUHAMMAD: Yes, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So what is your current legal name?
MUHAMMAD: My current legal name is John Allen Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what is the new name by which you wish to be known?
MUHAMMAD: John Allen Muhammad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why do you desire to be known by this new name?
MUHAMMAD: For, religious purposes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you changing your name for any other reason?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you changing your name to defraud or mislead any person or creditor?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you involved in any legal proceeding other than this name change?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And have you ever been convicted of a felony?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you under supervision of any probation department that requires you to report a change of address?
MUHAMMAD: No, ma'am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll go ahead and grant your name change.
MUHAMMAD: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can go back out to the front counter to your paperwork up front, OK?
MUHAMMAD: So I don't need to look at it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you don't.
MUHAMMAD: I don't need to show you no paperwork? I don't need to bring any witnesses or anything else? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 5:00?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we can't. We need to go home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yours is pretty simple.
MUHAMMAD: I feel cheated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, these are fairly routine.
MUHAMMAD: All right, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BLITZER: The Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan has confirmed that Muhammad is a member of the church. Farrakhan says Muhammad will be expelled if he's convicted in connection with the sniping deaths.
The public point man during the massive manhunt for snipers was Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose. He projected many moods and attitudes from tough cop and media critic to an emotional father figure trying to reassure a very frightened public. Joining us now to talk about Chief Moose's role during the crisis, the former New York City police commissioner, Bernard Kerik. He's also the author of the book, "The Lost Son."
Commissioner, thanks very much for joining us. When you watched Chief Moose's performance over these weeks, what went through your mind?
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, I think I'd have to think back to September 11, dealing with the multitude of different agencies, the different jurisdictional issues, the operational issues.
This is a man that had to deal with five, probably seven to nine, maybe federal agencies. He was dealing with a military component. He was dealing with two state jurisdictions, several municipalities. An extremely, extremely difficult job when the daily pressures, the daily shootings that were occurring were still going on. I can understand how difficult his job was at the time, I guess.
BLITZER: You probably remember at one point we saw tears flowing down his cheeks. Other points he was scolding us in the news media for releasing certain information. What kind of grades would you give him though overall as the leader of this multi-jurisdictional task force?
KERIK: Well, I'd say his grades would have to be extremely high. You know, you're dealing with all of these issues I just mentioned. Then you have the media, of course. And then you have every critic under the sun that usually has no idea what you're going through, no idea of the day-to-day needs, the operational needs. I have to give him pretty high grades with regard to leadership and getting Montgomery County through this difficult ordeal.
BLITZER: You heard Jeanne Meserve's piece. The white vans apparently never really existed as the killing machines or that white box truck. The Chevy Caprice, of course, as we all now know, based on what the police are telling us, was used. How do you explain that apparent screw up?
KERIK: Well, I think, Wolf, you have to go back to the evidence, talked about initially in the investigation. There was mention of a white van in the first few shootings. And then later on there were witnesses that, again, saw a white type truck, a white box truck.
This van and box truck, the truck seemed to come up time after time. You don't know if this was intentional. You don't know if the witnesses -- you don't know the credibility of the witnesses that that gave the information, the explanation for why some of the evidence was missed over, the Caprice at one of the shootings, I saw just a few minutes ago. You know, thousands and thousands of pieces of evidence, thousands of witnesses that are interviewed.
These things go through a process, a protocol. And I think, you know if you talk about lessons learned from this event, September 11, it's a necessity for interagency coordinating centers, emergency command centers, interoperability of radios, communications. These things will make these events go better in the future. And now that terrorism has come to this country, and it is really here to stay, we have to look at this in the future.
BLITZER: If you take a look at the whole nature of all these -- the battle that's under way now -- who should get first crack at prosecuting these two suspects, you've been involved in a lot of homicide investigations, who do you believe should be first in line?
KERIK: Well, I would say first in line would be if I'm not mistaken, Montgomery County -- had the most of the shootings, was the initial -- where the initial shootings occurred. I'd say they should -- in my opinion, they should be first. But I think the prosecutors and the state agencies, they should look at what Moose tried to do with regard to leading the different enforcement jurisdictions and take the same tact.
BLITZER: And at this point, do you think both of them should be eligible for the death penalty, including the 17-year-old John Malvo?
KERIK: In my opinion, yes, I do.
BLITZER: All right, Bernard Kerik, as usual, thanks for your insight, appreciate it very much.
KERIK: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
And the anthrax terror attacks still no arrests but new indications that more than one person may -- repeat may have been involved. Plus, Russian troops gas a theater full of hostages leaving 115 people dead. The fallout from a bungled rescue still to come. And that's our "Question of the Day": do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Well last year's deadly anthrax attacks here in the United States, the work of one person? That's the apparent theory investigators say they're pursuing. But today's "Washington Post" reports, and CNN has previously reported a growing number of experts are casting some doubt on that theory. They say the methods used were too sophisticated and too costly to be the work of a loan terrorist.
I'm joined here in our Washington studio by Pat Clawson. He's the spokesman for Steven Hatfill. He's the former Army scientist whom the Justice Department calls a, quote, "person of interest" in the anthrax investigation.
Thanks again, Pat, for coming on. I want you to listen to an excerpt of an exchange I had with Richard Spertzle, who's an expert on biological, chemical warfare, a former U.N. weapons inspector. I had this excerpt -- I had this with him a month ago. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: So you're skeptical about this so-called person of interest, Steven Hatfill, identified by the attorney general as a person of interest in this investigation of the anthrax letter attacks?
RICHARD SPERTZEL, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Absolutely. Of the one or two methods that could be used to make the quality of product that was seen in those letters is well beyond the capability of a single or even a small group acting in isolation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Now, your friend and, I don't know if he's your client, but your friend Steven Hatfill has adamantly denied any involvement in these anthrax attacks yet he continues to be pursued as a potential, I guess, suspect by the Justice Department.
PAUL CLAWSON, HATFILL'S SPOKESMAN: Well, the FBI investigation of Dr. Hatfill has been unrelenting. I mean they're still all over him all the time.
There's something very interesting about the "Washington Post" report that came out today. And it's not the conclusion that many scientists believe that more than one person was involved. It is the information being revealed about the special additive that was in the anthrax, this was a special form of silica and it's been known to be used by the Iraqi bioweapons program, not by the American program.
BLITZER: Did Steven Hatfill have any access to this kind of sophisticated material?
CLAWSON: Steven Hatfill has stated many times he has never worked with anthrax. He's had no contact with anthrax and he knows nothing at all about the anthrax attacks. BLITZER: As of this moment, is he still being investigated based on everything you know?
CLAWSON: He is indeed being investigated. He had some meetings last week with investigators and the FBI continues its scrutiny of him almost around the clock.
BLITZER: He is cooperating?
CLAWSON: Oh yes, absolutely. He has given the FBI everything that they've asked.
BLITZER: What is his suspicion? Who is responsible for these anthrax attacks because he is after all a scientist and he's an expert on these kinds of matters?
CLAWSON: The truth of the matter is, Wolf, we don't have a clue. Steven Hatfill doesn't have a clue who's responsible for the anthrax...
BLITZER: But does he -- but you mentioned the Iraqi connection. Why raise the whole issue of the Iraqis? Is there any evidence to suggest they may have been responsible for this thing?
CLAWSON: Well, the Iraqis ordered over 100 metric tons of the special form of silica that was mixed up with the anthrax, according to today's reports in the "Washington Post." I mean that certainly points a finger in a direction that the FBI ought to be looking.
BLITZER: Is Steven Hatfill going forward with lawsuits?
CLAWSON: He is discussing lawsuits with his council at this point in time. I can't tell you exactly when they will be filed, but I would expect that several lawsuits will be filed.
BLITZER: All right, Pat Clawson, thanks for joining us.
CLAWSON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
A hostage crisis leads to a bungled rescue. Who should be held accountable and why won't the Russians come clean about a mystery gas? And a volcanic eruption on Mount Etna, an amazing view of nature's firry fiery. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: About 400 former hostages remain hospitalized in Russia today including nine children. One hundred fifteen others died during a weekend raid on a Moscow theater aimed at winning their freedom.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Russian flags flew at half-staff in memory of the hostages who died in the Moscow theater standoff. But some critics say the Kremlin was at least partly to blame for those deaths.
Chechen rebels had been holding about 800 hostages almost two and a half days when Russian forces made their move on Saturday. In a bid to disable the hostage takers, the Russians gassed the theater. A Russian reporter was talking to a hostage on a cell phone asking about the gas just as the troops began moving in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER (through translator): Is it tear gas? What's happening with the people? Can you see it? Can you feel it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I beg you, I don't know. We see it. We feel it. We are breathing through clothes.
That's it. Oh, God. We're all going to fly to kingdom come. Our forces have begun it.
BLITZER: Stunned and subdued by the gas, the Chechens reportedly put up little resistance. In the end, authorities said 50 hostage takers were dead, but so were dozens of hostages, victims of the gas used for their rescue.
LEV FYODOROV, CHEMICAL WEAPONS EXPERT (through translator): The substance is of the type of incapacitating agent, are intended for a healthy, potential adversary, a man in his prime who's heart, liver, and kidneys tolerate such substances.
This is clear, but in this case, represented in the hall were all groups of people including those suffering from heart, liver or kidney problems. They could have died due to the overdose.
BLITZER: The government said the hostage deaths were tragic but unavoidable, and some of the surviving hostages agree.
ANDREI KAUMOV, FORMER HOSTAGE: I think without the gas everyone would be dead, everyone -- every hostage will be killed.
BLITZER: Russian authorities would not say exactly that kind of gas they used, complicating efforts to treat former hostages suffering from its effects. That drew criticism even from some Russians who supporting gassing the theater in the first place.
ALEXI ARBATOV, RUSSIAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER: I blame the authorities for not providing the doctors with antidotes and instructions on how to use them. That is certainly a great blunder and many people are paying for the blunder with their health and some even with their life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: With the Kremlin maintaining its silence, there's lot of speculation over what kind of gas was used in the Moscow theater assault. U.S government sources tell CNN the gas may have contained a chemical building block found in heroine or morphine-based agents. Michael Powers is an associate with the Chemical and Biological Arms Control Institute, a private group here in Washington. I wanted to invite him to get his take on what happened. What kind of gas do you think, based on the descriptions you've heard, was used?
MICHAEL POWERS, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL ARMS CONTROL INSTITUTE: Well, there are two candidates that have been discussed frequently -- as you've mentioned, the morphine-based substance. The other additive or the other substance that's' been frequently referred to is a chemical agent known as BZ, an incapacitating agent developed by the military for use against deployed forces.
BLITZER: That's a nerve gas?
POWERS: That's -- well, it's not a nerve gas. It affects the nervous system, but it's really designed not to kill but to incapacitate by causing hallucinations in those affected by the gas.
BLITZER: Why won't the Russians simply tell us what kind of gas they used?
POWERS: It's an excellent question. It's difficult at this point to accurately answer that question, really because I think the Russians are trying to determine whether or not this fits within the confines of the CWC and whether or not that agreement controls this particular agent. I think the Russians...
BLITZER: The CWC being the Chemical World (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
POWERS: Right, the Chemical Weapon Convention bans the use of chemical weapons. And I think in this particular case, the Russians haven't made an accurate determination of whether or not that agent is captured by the provisions of the CWC.
BLITZER: So in other words, if they used a certain chemical that was banned by the Convention, the Chemical Weapons Convention, they would be in violation of an international treaty?
POWERS: Absolutely correct. And I think internally, they're probably going through a fairly rigorous review, both legal reviews, scientific review, to figure out whether or not this particular agent fits or falls underneath the purview of that convention.
BLITZER: Does that convention or treaty apply to their own people or to -- only to outside -- in wars with other countries?
POWERS: Well, it basically bans the use of toxic substances at large as a military tool. The only provision that allows -- or the provision within the treaty allows for the use of riot control agents with -- for law enforcement purposes. In that particular instance, it would be allowable and in any other circumstance, it would be a violation.
BLITZER: There's some speculation that they used the gas but they used it in a dose that was much too powerful. They simply didn't have the right doses that they should have used.
POWERS: That's one of the speculations that I've heard as well, but without knowing what agent was used, it's hard to determine whether or not they used too much of the agent or used it in incorrect proportions.
BLITZER: Is there any sense that -- they made a huge blunder obviously by not giving the antidote to the doctors who are treating these hundreds of people?
POWERS: Obviously that would have been crucial in terms of saving the lives, saving the hostages and reducing the fatalities associated with it, obviously, a huge blunder.
BLITZER: But is there an antidote for example, BZ?
POWERS: There is an antidote for BZ, but importantly, this particular substance does not cause fatalities, it does not cause permanent harm. It's an incapacitating agent. So really even without treatment, the effect should wear off within a short amount of time.
BLITZER: As far as you know, is using gas in a hostage kind of situation like this normal standard procedure?
POWERS: Well, the use of tear gas or similar sorts of agents are very common. In this particular type of agent where human lives are -- people are killed and long-term effects are present physically, that is very rare and unusual and is the source of some of the questions.
BLITZER: Do you think tear gas might have been the weapon of choice in this particular case?
POWERS: Perhaps.
BLITZER: Obviously not. Michael Powers, thanks for your expertise.
POWERS: Thanks for having me.
BLITZER: Thank you very much.
Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our "Web Question of The Day" is this -- Do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? We'll have results later in this broadcast. Go to my Web page, cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote. While you're there, I'd like to hear directly from you. Send me your comments, your questions. We'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also of course where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results of our "Web Question" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked, which volcano is the world's most deadly? The answer Tambora in Indonesia. It claimed more than 90,000 lives back in 1815.
Our "Picture of The Day" takes us to Sicily and spectacular scenes of Europe's most active volcano. Look at this. Mount Etna still spitting fire after reawakening yesterday. The latest eruption came after a series of earthquakes. So far nearby towns are said to be safe from the red-hot lava streams.
Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Questions of The Day." Earlier we asked, do you think the United States should condemn Russia for using secret gas? Thirty-three percent of you say yes, 67 percent of you say no. You can find the exact vote tally -- continue to vote by the way on my Website, cnn.com/wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
Let's get to your e-mail. Jean is writing this: "The photo of Muhammad and Malvo the media show is obviously an old one. Malvo is certainly no longer the young, smiling child we see in that picture. Why don't you find a more recent photo that shows him as the mass killer he is today?"
Mike asks this: "Why is it so important for all these jurisdictions to charge the snipers? Don't we just want them convicted and sentenced to death? Stop wasting taxpayers' money. Let one jurisdiction prosecute them and send them to death."
Sarah agrees: "The squabble over which state will prosecute the sniper suspects seems to be motivated by the political ambitions of some of the officials involved."
That's all the time we have today. Please join me again tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. Please join me at noon Eastern as well for "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" every day. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
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Sniper Suspects; U.S. Diplomat Killed in Jordan Today>
