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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Some Fear Kasi Execution May Stir Reactionary Attacks
Aired November 14, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Bob, tell us what's going on.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the very latest is, is that the legal obstacles to the execution of Mir Aimal Kasi have all been removed. Just moments ago, the governor of Virginia, Mark Warner, put out a statement saying: "I have concluded that the death penalty is appropriate in this instance. I will not intervene."
Now, that was after the U.S. Supreme Court denied two applications for a stay of execution, a chance to rehear it, so the execution looks like it will go forward at about nine o'clock tonight, which is just a little less than four hours from now. In that direction at the back of the prison, Mir Aimal Kasi will get a lethal injection if all goes as planned almost ten years after a crime that became a forerunner to almost even more horrible violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice over): So much time has passed. The scale of terrorist attacks in the United States has increased immensely, but on January 25, 1993 the morning ambush outside Central Intelligence Agency Headquarters in McLean, Virginia, shocked the world and left two CIA employees dead, three others injured.
VOICE OF MIR AIMAL KASI: I was real angry at the policy of the United States Government in the Middle East, particularly toward the Palestinian people.
FRANKEN: It took four years but the relentless pursuit by law enforcement finally paid off. June 15, 1997, investigators traced gunman Mir Aimal Kasi to a hotel in Quetta, Pakistan. Among those who crashed into his room, FBI Agent Brad Garrett who had led the hunt.
BRAD GARRETT, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: We get into this huge tussle with him. He's screaming at the top of his lungs. We end up gagging him at some point. Our biggest concern when we got in there, once we cleared the room, there was no weapons, there was no one else in there was is he the right guy?
FRANKEN: Investigators say Kasi subsequently confessed. In the five years since then, Garrett and Kasi have gotten to know each other personally. In fact, Agent Garrett will be at the prison for Kasi's execution, although he expresses no opinion about it. But there is apprehension at the State Department, which is warning Americans in Kasi's native Pakistan of possible revenge attacks, attacks Kasi himself says he opposes. VOICE OF KASI: In Pakistan a lot of people like me, so I believe there will be big chances for retaliation against Americans there, but personally I don't encourage anybody to attack Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice over): Now, members of the family have been leaving and coming and leaving throughout the day, two brothers, Kasi's spiritual adviser. The spiritual adviser and attorney can stay with him up until the time he is escorted to the death chamber, which occurs just before the execution in a little less than four hours -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Bob, this threat of retaliation against Americans we're hearing from the State Department, how seriously concerned are they that there will be this retaliation against Americans?
FRANKEN: Well, the State Department is concerned enough to have put out a warning. The prison itself is under extra security. We're not being allowed to see it but we are told by the state police that they have assigned more troops than normal for a circumstance like this because they are apprehensive. But thus far, everything has been uneventful.
BLITZER: Bob Franken, he's standing by. We're less than four hours away from the execution. We'll continue to monitor that situation in Virginia. Thanks, Bob very much. In other news, the notorious case of two young boys convicted of beating their father to death with a baseball bat has taken a final strange turn. It's a case that once again challenges our vision of innocence and stretches the bounds of American law. CNN's Mark Potter is in Pensacola, Florida. He's been following the fate of Derek and Alex King. Tell us what's the latest twist in this very, very strange story. Go ahead.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, very strange indeed. In a mediated settlement between the defense and prosecution, Alex and Derek King, ages 13 and 14 pleaded guilty to Third Degree Murder in connection with the beating death of their father last November.
This means, of course, there will be no retrial now. Alex was given a seven-year prison sentence. His older brother Derek was given eight years. Both will get credit for time served. They will spend their time at one of two facilities, either near Tampa or Vero Beach, Florida. These are state prison facilities that house only juveniles.
The mediator in the case, Bill Eddins (ph) said that it is important now for these boys to have years of stability and structure in their lives, which those items were missing from their lives for years. As part of the deal also, they had to confess their role in the killing of their father. Judge Frank Bell read that confession in open court in which the boys also talked about their ties to 41-year- old Ricky Chavez who was accused of hiding evidence in the case and having sex with one of the boys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JUDGE FRANK BELL, ESCAMBIA CO. CIRCUIT COURT: "He told us that dad would kill us before he would let us live with Rick. He told us that he might have to protect us from our dad. He told us that our dad mentally abused Alex by "staring him down" which Rick said was extreme mental abuse. On the night of my dad's death, Alex told me that Rick was going to come by and pick us up at midnight. Alex suggested that I kill dad. I murdered my dad with an aluminum baseball bat. I set the house on fire from my dad's bedroom."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POTTER: Now the boy's biological mother, Kelly Marino, who gave up the boys years ago for foster care said she opposes this plea deal complaining that she was shut out of the mediation process. She also argues that the boys are simply too young to make such a momentous decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY MARINO, MOTHER: They're 13 and 14 years old. They're not able to make this judgment for the rest of their lives and none of us were allowed to have a say in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POTTER: Now, in response to her criticism, the prosecutor said of the boys: "They wouldn't be going to the state pen if she was paying more attention to them when they were in the playpen." At the end of the hearing, Alex and Derek were fingerprinted. They will undergo two to four weeks of processing and testing, and then they will go off to a state prison facility -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mark Potter, Mark thanks very much for that report. And, the decision about Derek and Alex King's future has been made but is it justice? Cathy Corry is with justice4kids.org. It's an advocacy group for children and adults trying to navigate Florida's juvenile justice system. She's joining us now live from Tampa. Thanks so much, Kathy, for joining us. Was justice served today?
CATHY CORRY, JUSTICE4KIDS.ORG: No. I believe justice was not served. These two young boys are children. They deserve to be treated as the juveniles that they are and not prosecuted as adults. They are not --
BLITZER: But in effect -- let me interrupt for a second, Cathy. In effect, though, today this agreement that was worked out, this settlement which they both have accepted is a lot less than any adult would have received for this kind of crime.
CORRY: Yes, absolutely. It's better than the worst case scenario but it still is against what we believe should be happening to our children. They are not emotionally, mentally, physiologically; psychologically mature enough to make proper decisions and choices in their lives and to be held accountable as adults for those decisions. We don't let children vote. We don't let drive or drink alcohol and they should have been afforded juvenile justice. BLITZER: At this point according to Florida law, according with the current law of Florida what you're suggesting is you want that law to be changed?
CORRY: Absolutely. I would like to have it be where prosecutors did not have discretion to transfer children to the adult court system.
BLITZER: But the prosecutors in this particular case had no choice given the current law that exists on the books, is that right?
CORRY: I don't know the law. It's my understanding that they did have the choice. Again, I'm not an expert in that area but from people that have told me who are experts, there is a choice in the matter and it's just easier for them to transfer it to adult court.
With adult court, you do get a jury trial. In Juvenile Court, you do not get a jury trial. Often people believe that is a better deal to at least get a jury of your peers but we believe that the adult sanctions are much more severe than juvenile sanctions for juveniles.
BLITZER: (AUDIO GAP) in your efforts as well. There is a verdict now, we are told, a verdict in that case in Florida involving a gun distributor and an individual, a young man, who killed his teacher. We're going to bring you that verdict as soon as we come back.
The White House, meanwhile, has some harsh words for (AUDIO GAP). We'll have a closer look. Also, will homeland security mean giving up all your privacy, the debate over what some are calling Big Brother gone bad. And a CNN exclusive Navy SEALS training for war in the Persian Gulf, our own Kyra Phillips went along on a secret mission. She'll join us live, but first a look at some news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): Smiling suspect, Indonesian police say the prime suspect in last month's deadly Bali bombing shows no remorse for the crime. Pictures of the suspect smiling, laughing, and waving during an unusual public interrogation have produced outrage in Australia, home to at least 66 of the bombing victims.
Having their say, anti-globalization activists have gathered in Australia to protest a meeting of the World Trade Organization. Demonstrators scuffled with police who arrested 19 people, including three women who lay naked on a U.S. flag.
Detour, demonstrators in Peru used burning tires and chunks of rock to block the Pan American Highway. They want the government to give them titles to the land where they live and to provide sanitation and electricity.
A new generation is taking charge in China. Chinese communists named a new central committee and, for the first time, it includes not a single veteran of the 1949 revolution. The only member of the top leadership elected to another term was China's vice president who's expected to succeed President Jiang Zemin.
Of pigs and politics, a Belgian performance artist has found an unusual way to protest rising tensions between the United States and Iraq. He's spending three days in a cage with a pig. The specific relationship between pigs and peace is a little unclear. The performer wants the project to speak for itself and the pig won't squeal, and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
BLITZER: Two years ago a 13-year-old Florida boy walked into a classroom and fatally shot his teacher. Now, a jury has decided if the distributor of the gun Nathaniel Brazill used to shoot teacher Barry Grunow should share in the blame. CNN's John Zarrella is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Tell us the outcome of this contentious four-week trial. John, what happened?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Wolf, I think it's still going to be contentious even now after the verdict has been read. The jury found on one of four of the principal counts that, and I'll read this for clarity: "Was there negligence on the part of Valor Corporation?" That's the company that distributed the gun. They couldn't go after the manufacturer because the manufacturer is out of business.
was there negligence on the part of Valor Corporation supplying the Raven MP-25," commonly known as the Saturday Night Special, "without feasible safety measures, which was a legal cause of damage to plaintiff." And, the jury found yes, but they also found that the Valor Corporation was only five percent responsible and the jury in total to the widow of Barry Grunow and her two children found that the widow got $10 million and the two children got $7 million each, a total of $24 million but that's only $1.2 million roughly because it's only a five percent award.
Now, her attorneys are saying they're going to go back to the court and say that because this jury found that Nathaniel Brazill in one of the questions intentionally shot Barry Grunow, but under Florida law the judge can give them the entire $24 million that the jury awarded and put that responsibility all on Valor Corporation. But that is yet to be determined, Wolf, right now only five percent liability. Is this a landmark case? Not yet. Attorneys say perhaps but only on appeal if all of this stands up on appeal -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And if it stands up, it would certainly send a powerful message out there to other gun distributors and manufacturers.
ZARRELLA: Absolutely, Wolf. There are a few cases working their way through the court system right now. In fact, a lot of organizations, anti-gun organizations were on hand here, have been on hand here watching this trial very carefully to see how it shakes out. Certainly in those other courtrooms around the country where those cases are working their way through the legal system, it is also being watched very carefully to see what ultimately happens here in Florida -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John Zarrella, thanks for that update, a potentially landmark case, a potentially very significant case. We'll be continuing to watch that. John Zarrella, our Miami Bureau Chief, thanks very much.
What the Feds know and what they should share with the public is, of course, a constant question of balance. The FBI is catching heat from the White House for alerting hospitals in four major U.S. cities to an unconfirmed threat of possible attacks over the holidays. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is following the story. She's joining me now live. Jeanne, this is a complicated but potentially significant story as well.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. Wolf, administration officials say there are a lot of potential targets for terrorist attacks about which they're worried and hospitals are not at the top of the list, but it was this FBI warning to hospitals in San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, and Washington, D.C. that caused concern today in those cities and within the administration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice over): The warning from the FBI about possible anthrax or bomb attacks prompted some hospital in the four affected cities to take additional precautions.
JIM EATON, CALIF. PACIFIC MEDICAL CTR.: We alert our security staff. We alert our mailroom staff. We alert our regular staff to be cautious of packages, cautious of things that are out of place, and to be really on a higher alert status than we normally would be.
MESERVE: But displeased White House officials said the intelligence on which the warning was based had very low credibility and was not corroborated. They criticized the FBI for "getting people unnecessarily alarmed." Said one official: "They should not have put this information out." An FBI official in Houston explained why they did.
BOB DOGIUM, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: But the responsible thing to do is as we gather intelligence information is to share the intelligence information.
MESERVE: There have been warnings in the past about railroads, banks, nuclear power plants, and other critical infrastructure. These have gone through an established interagency process to ensure that the information is credible and that the affected industries and the public have some context and instructions about what to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (on camera): The information about hospitals did not go through that same interagency process according to officials. The White House is communicating its displeasure to the FBI and a review is underway to make sure it doesn't happen again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: In the meantime, of course, the damage is done. A lot of people are going to be nervous going to hospitals in those four cities over the next few months.
MESERVE: They may be, Wolf. This is a very difficult situation with which intelligence officials have to grapple all the time. In the post-9/11 environment, if they get information about a threat, should they communicate it to the public if they know about it or should they remain quiet? In this instance, obviously the FBI choosing to move ahead but other officials tell me they get so much information it should be vetted very carefully. In this case, the White House officials telling me this information should not have gone out to the public.
BLITZER: All right, a very delicate balancing act. Jeanne Meserve thanks very much. He was a central figure in the Iran Contra scandal, so should this man have the power to collect virtually all your private information for the sake of national security? A closer look at the broad spying powers your government could soon have over your life.
Also, a dark side in the Catholic Church revealed a small number of nuns accused of sexual abuse, the story of shame and fear. Plus, did Miss Cleo predict this, a multimillion dollar penalty against the queen of the psychic hotline.
And Navy SEALS in action training for the mission of their lives, we'll take you live to the Persian Gulf for a CNN exclusive, but first today's news quiz. The Navy SEALS completed their first secret mission during which war, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, the answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A surprising twist in the sex abuse scandal plaguing the Roman Catholic Church, a Boston area nun has been suspended following allegations she molested a fifth grade girl at an Indiana school in the 1960s, and the case is not the first of its kind. CNN's Boston Bureau Chief Bill Delaney explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL DELANEY, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): Amid the outcry over alleged sexual abuse by Catholic priests, whispers about other alleged abuse by Catholic nuns. This woman says she was seven when for months in the 1960s her second grade teacher molested her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would put her hands up my clothes, up my underwear and do whatever she wanted to do.
DELANEY: Only in her 30s after therapy did she begin to talk about it. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who have been molested by nuns are really, really closeted about it. They truly believe that they are the only ones and so they have no motivation to come forward. I don't think it is as widespread as the priests but I think it is more widespread than people are willing to believe.
DELANEY: A 1995 book, "Habits of Sin" investigated the issue. The author, presently too ill to appear on camera, says alleged victims from 23 states contacted her. With the average age of nuns in the United States now 70, most allegations date back a quarter century or more, though a long time counselor told CNN he'd encountered cases from the late '80s and early '90s, none resulting in lawsuits or public disclosure, a pattern in cases involving nuns.
Andrew Ketterer, a former attorney general of Maine, after decades of silence only a few years ago told a state panel what he says happened to him in second grade in New Jersey.
ANDREW KETTERER, ALLEGED ABUSE VICTIM: It was a long time ago but I can remember it like it was yesterday. She would start on my face, kissing, kissing all the way down to my lips and then long kisses on the lips that, to me, they seemed like they lasted forever.
DELANEY: Former nun and counselor Yvonne Maes believes sexual misconduct among sisters is rare but also rarely reported.
YVONNE MAES, FORMER NUN: I have had disclosures to me, very serious disclosures of women by women who were abused by nuns.
DELANEY (on camera): Most sisters are nuns, of course, like most priests have never had anything to do with hurting the young. The Southdown Institute, a mental health facility that specializes in treating church professionals says of some 2,500 women religious treated there in the past 37 years, only seven-tenths of one percent engaged in sexual abuse of a minor, compared to in the same period 15 percent of some 2,500 male clergy.
DELANEY (voice over): Even small percentages, though, of concern.
SISTER DONNA MARKHAM, SOUTHDOWN INSTITUTE: As someone who has experienced nothing but real gift and privilege to be a member of the Dominican order. It's very painful for me to hear that anyone could have been victimized by a woman religious.
DELANEY: Alleged victims' psychotherapists, former nuns we spoke to repeatedly predicted more stories now than ever before will emerge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're kind of coming in on the coattails of the priest issue. We're always the last ones for anyone to acknowledge. Hopefully, that will change so that the healing can begin.
DELANEY: Bill Delaney CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Two CNN exclusives when we come back, first a front seat ride with the Navy SEALS as they train at an undisclosed location in the Persian Gulf. Then, urban combat on the streets of Baghdad, a 3-D view of what U.S. troops could face on the ground if they go in. And, your privacy versus national security, find out why the government could very soon be watching your every electronic move. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- the Navy SEALS completed their first secret mission during which war? The answer, Vietnam. The SEALS traced their history back to the SEABIES (ph) back in World War II, but they got their official start in 1962.
Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Coming up, we'll take you on a ride along with the Navy SEALS as they train in the Persian Gulf.
Now that Iraq has promised to comply with U.N. orders on disarmament and inspections, the world is ready to see whether it keeps that promise. The Pentagon is preparing for the possibility it won't. CNN's Kyra Phillips got a behind-the-scenes look at some Special Forces training in the Gulf region. She's joining us now live from Kuwait City via videophone with this exclusive report.
Kyra, tell us what you saw and heard?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, if a war with Iraq has to happen, yes, there will be air strikes, yes, there will be huge forces, not only by land and air, but all also from the sea. And that's where naval special warfare finds its comfort zones within the combat zones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): God, country and fast boats, speed, stealth and surprise. Two mantras from Navy men with one mission -- combat readiness for sea, air and land. You're witnessing naval special warfare from the rib boats to the Mark-5 Special Operations craft.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a very low rate, our signature. We can maneuver extremely well. We can get in and out of places virtually undetected.
PHILLIPS: Navy SEALS and combatant crewmen training together for a potential war against Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're very small. We're elite. We're a tight knit unit and we can do the kinds of things that others just simply can't.
PHILLIPS: For reasons of military security, we cannot identify these men. We can't even tell you where we are, but we can show you how these unique warriors train for the nature of their battlefield, the Persian Gulf.
(on camera): The perfect case scenario with any SEALS mission is to get in and out of an area without being seen or heard. But in a high threat situation, these men say anything is possible with enemy forces. So weapons proficiency is paramount.
(voice-over): Firing 50 caliber machine guns and grenade launchers, not easy at sea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily being able to remain a beat on a target as you're trying to compensate for the pitch and the roll of the small craft. It's both a science and an art form.
PHILLIPS: But marksmanship is just one tool in the Special Operations arsenal. These frogmen say their real weapon here is stealth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a basic pistol belt; get the pistol in the holster, put a little flashlight in here. This is for spare pistol mags. This is a weapons cache for primary weapon. Move that off to the side and keep it out of the way.
PHILLIPS: Prepared for close quarter battle, SEALS depend on the zodiac moving them to and from any clandestine operation quickly from underwater recon to demolition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's small. It's hard to detect. You can fit a lot of guys, a lot of gear on it. If something happens to it underway, while we're out working, we can actually repair it while we're out to sea.
PHILLIPS: Out to sea training for every eventuality, day and night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a holler when you're ready to come up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At a moment's notice, whenever the call comes, we are ready, trained, prepared and rehearsed to perform our role, whatever that role may be.
PHILLIPS: A role these men are confident will make a real difference in any conflict with Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Now Wolf, the assets and abilities don't stop there. These men in Special Forces are also underwater navigators, combat divers, expert swimmers and parachutists. They also conduct advance surveillance -- surveillance, rather -- figuring out the location, the activity and also the routes of enemy forces -- Wolf.
BLITZER: It seems like given the mood, given what we've seen; they're ready to go. They're pumped, primed. If the order were given tomorrow, they'd be ready to move. Is that fair to say that? PHILLIPS: Absolutely, Wolf. And you can't help but feel that when you're out on the Special Operations watercraft going about 55 knots and just seeing the adrenaline pump through all their veins. And they told me, every single one of them, they think about their families, they think about their kids, but if President Bush says they've got to go to war, they're ready on a moment's notice, Wolf.
BLITZER: Kyra Phillips doing some excellent reporting for us over these past several weeks in the Persian Gulf. Kyra, be safe out there. We'll see you when you get back here. Thanks very much for joining us.
And a new war in the Persian Gulf could be quite different from the 1991 conflict. U.S. troops could face street-to-street combat in Baghdad. The Pentagon is using computer technology to prepare precisely for that possibility. CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has an exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANG CRAIGHILL, HOMELAND SECURITY INITIATIVES: We're coming up on the memorial.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Baghdad.
CRAIGHILL: This is the Republican Guard headquarters.
MCINTYRE: This is not a videogame. It's a 3-D animation of the real streets and real buildings of the Iraqi capital, complete with the GPS coordinates created by Harris Corporation from satellite images taken in August.
CRAIGHILL: It puts you into that spot, so if you are in that location, this is exactly what you would see.
MCINTYRE: The idea is to give U.S. forces a very realistic preview of the ground they may be fighting for in a few months and help avoid the kind of deadly firefight that pinned down U.S. troops in Somalia in 1993.
CRAIGHILL: If you saw "Blackhawk Down," in that urban combat situation, there was a little command and control for the group to understand how to exit the scene. And this type of tool would have given them comfort with the environments and acknowledgement how to leave.
COL. RANDY GANGLE, U.S. MARINES (RET): One of the great difficulties of this battle is going to be -- is locating the enemy because he can hide a very large Army in a city of five million people very successfully. He can't defend the entire city. We can't clear the entire city. So it's going to be a game of cat and mouse, where urban patrolling is going to be one of the -- I believe, one of the keys to success.
CRAIGHILL: If you've been in a large city, it's extremely difficult and you lose your orientation and bearing very quickly. But as long as you've seen the environment before you've moved in and you're able to go through this and rehearse it any number of times before you actually land in the city.
MCINTYRE: The software can all be used as U.S. troops are engaged in urban warfare. For instance, calculating where a sniper may be firing from, so a smart bomb can take him out.
(on camera): For years, the U.S. military's rule of thumb when it came to urban combat was to avoid it. That may not be possible this time, but if U.S troops do fight in the streets of Baghdad, they will have every advantage U.S. technology can provide.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And please join me for a full hour of Iraq coverage everyday at noon Eastern on "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." Among my guests tomorrow, Joe Wilson. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq. He was the last U.S. official to meet personally with Saddam Hussein. Tomorrow, noon Eastern.
And as the U.N. weapons inspection team arrives in Cyprus this weekend, stay with CNN over the course of the entire weekend for complete coverage indeed from the entire region. We'll have reports from Baghdad, Kuwait City and Cyprus.
Big brother may soon be watching your every electronic move. The debate over privacy versus national security when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Word of a new government effort to track terrorist are drawing comparisons to big brother and putting some concerns about privacy and safety in direct competition. Our national security correspondent David Ensor has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Everyone knows that computer databases are full of information about each of us. Credit card companies know what we buy. Supermarkets know our eating habits. Different parts of the government know how much money we make and our driving history. The idea the Defense Department is getting researched is whether using supercomputers, the U.S. could develop a way to put all that information together to look for patterns, patterns that might help catch a terrorist before he attacks. To put it mildly, the idea is controversial.
PETER KORNBLUH, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: This is a program that incorporates all of the big brother operations that the American public has feared from its government for all these years and that the Constitution has protected us from -- spying, invasion of privacy, you name it. And Admiral Poindexter, of all people, is now in charge of that program. ENSOR: That's right. Admiral John Poindexter, who was President Reagan's national security adviser, is in charge of the Defense Department research project.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE United States: He was nominated first in his class at the Naval Academy.
ENSOR: With a reputation for brilliance, Poindexter is controversial, too. He was indicted and sentenced for giving false testimony to Congress about his role in the Iran-Contra scandal, though his conviction was later overturned. In a speech, Poindexter described what his office wants to go after this way. "If terrorist organizations are going to plan and execute attacks against the United States their people must engage in transactions and they will leave signatures in this information space."
Now, throw in a newspaper column, which states that the new bill founding the Homeland Security Department would create such a program to spy on Americans, and you have still more controversy.
REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We are not talking about spying on individual American citizens.
ENSOR: Congressman Curt Weldon says though that the ideas Poindexter is working on are needed in the war on terrorism, for use only overseas.
WELDON: That capability needs to be in place from an intelligence standpoint especially with those that we're monitoring on foreign individuals, on bad guys around the world and bad groups to understand what might be in the planning stage or what might occur in America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Less anyone worry that big brother is just about to start watching them. If the capable is ever created, if, that would some years from now, officials say. And they stress again, it would only be used against targets overseas -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor, thanks very much. Joining me now to discuss the implications of this is Marc Rotenberg. He's the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.
Marc, thanks for joining us. What's wrong, a lot of Americans will say? What's wrong with giving up a little bit of privacy in order to protect our overall national security?
MARC ROTENBERG, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: Wolf, we have a system of Constitutional protections in this country that safe guard the privacy rights of Americans. And while we certainly recognize the need to go after terrorists and to protect public safety, this particular program, in effect, pushes aside those Constitutional safe guards. It's a sacrifice on basic liberty for Americans. BLITZER: But if it's going to save lives, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of lives, if you do polls, poll after poll after poll, always the same rule comes up. Americans are willing to sacrifice some of their privacy in order to protect the overall good of the country.
ROTENBERG: Well, first of all, it's not clear that this program will be successful. This is a lot of money being thrown at high technology that hasn't been tested. There are greater demands for better linguists, better interpretation and law enforcement agencies. That would be a better route to go.
But secondly, I don't think Americans are prepared to sacrifice their civil liberties. We had a big debate over the national I.D. card in this country over the past year and on balance, Americans said they were not prepared to accept a national system of identification. And here, as well, when it would involve going through people's financial records, bank records, educational records, what you buy at a supermarket, that's information that should only be obtained by governments under warrant.
BLITZER: And if it's only used though to deal with terror threats abroad as opposed to here domestic law enforcement?
ROTENBERG: Those are independent determinations that have to be made by the judiciary, and by the Congress, by public review. It cannot be left to the executive branch to decide for itself whether or not it's going too far. That would be against the American system of checks and balances and essentially putting aside the Fourth Amendment principle that safe guards Americans' right to privacy.
BLITZER: You looked at the Homeland Security Department legislation carefully, the bill that was passed by the House of Representatives. It doesn't go as far as has been suggested and that would authorize this kind of invasion of privacy.
ROTENBERG: I think the Homeland Security Act that's currently being considered by the Senate opens a very big door for Mr. Poindexter and allows him to walk through that door with a massive system of surveillance that would be quite compatible with the aims of the legislation. And that is really something that the sponsors and the Congress need to consider.
BLITZER: If there is an opportunity though for this kind of technology to find terrorists in the United States or abroad, in order to stop them from doing something before they do it, how far do you think the government should go in using this technology?
ROTENBERG: I think the government should use tools that are appropriate to find terrorists and protect public safety. There is no question about that. But they have to be done legally. They have to be done consistent with Constitutional principles. They have to be done in a way that safe guards freedom in the United States.
BLITZER: This is a story I'm sure that's going to continue, and it's going to continue to generate a lot of excitement on both sides. Marc, thanks for joining us.
ROTENBERG: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Here's your choice to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Questions of The Day" is this -- are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf. I'd love to know what you're thinking. And while you're there, of course, I'd love to also get some comments, some questions. We try to read as many of them on the air each day at the end of this program as we possibly can. That's also of course where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/Wolf.
Murder and conspiracy rocked the music world. Notorious hip-hop label, Death Row Records, searched by police. Arrests warrants issued. We go live to Los Angeles for the latest in the investigation when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." Are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? Log on to CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? Look at this. Twenty-seven percent of you say yes, 73 percent of you say no. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. Join me tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also noon Eastern for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 14, 2002 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: Bob, tell us what's going on.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the very latest is, is that the legal obstacles to the execution of Mir Aimal Kasi have all been removed. Just moments ago, the governor of Virginia, Mark Warner, put out a statement saying: "I have concluded that the death penalty is appropriate in this instance. I will not intervene."
Now, that was after the U.S. Supreme Court denied two applications for a stay of execution, a chance to rehear it, so the execution looks like it will go forward at about nine o'clock tonight, which is just a little less than four hours from now. In that direction at the back of the prison, Mir Aimal Kasi will get a lethal injection if all goes as planned almost ten years after a crime that became a forerunner to almost even more horrible violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice over): So much time has passed. The scale of terrorist attacks in the United States has increased immensely, but on January 25, 1993 the morning ambush outside Central Intelligence Agency Headquarters in McLean, Virginia, shocked the world and left two CIA employees dead, three others injured.
VOICE OF MIR AIMAL KASI: I was real angry at the policy of the United States Government in the Middle East, particularly toward the Palestinian people.
FRANKEN: It took four years but the relentless pursuit by law enforcement finally paid off. June 15, 1997, investigators traced gunman Mir Aimal Kasi to a hotel in Quetta, Pakistan. Among those who crashed into his room, FBI Agent Brad Garrett who had led the hunt.
BRAD GARRETT, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: We get into this huge tussle with him. He's screaming at the top of his lungs. We end up gagging him at some point. Our biggest concern when we got in there, once we cleared the room, there was no weapons, there was no one else in there was is he the right guy?
FRANKEN: Investigators say Kasi subsequently confessed. In the five years since then, Garrett and Kasi have gotten to know each other personally. In fact, Agent Garrett will be at the prison for Kasi's execution, although he expresses no opinion about it. But there is apprehension at the State Department, which is warning Americans in Kasi's native Pakistan of possible revenge attacks, attacks Kasi himself says he opposes. VOICE OF KASI: In Pakistan a lot of people like me, so I believe there will be big chances for retaliation against Americans there, but personally I don't encourage anybody to attack Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice over): Now, members of the family have been leaving and coming and leaving throughout the day, two brothers, Kasi's spiritual adviser. The spiritual adviser and attorney can stay with him up until the time he is escorted to the death chamber, which occurs just before the execution in a little less than four hours -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And, Bob, this threat of retaliation against Americans we're hearing from the State Department, how seriously concerned are they that there will be this retaliation against Americans?
FRANKEN: Well, the State Department is concerned enough to have put out a warning. The prison itself is under extra security. We're not being allowed to see it but we are told by the state police that they have assigned more troops than normal for a circumstance like this because they are apprehensive. But thus far, everything has been uneventful.
BLITZER: Bob Franken, he's standing by. We're less than four hours away from the execution. We'll continue to monitor that situation in Virginia. Thanks, Bob very much. In other news, the notorious case of two young boys convicted of beating their father to death with a baseball bat has taken a final strange turn. It's a case that once again challenges our vision of innocence and stretches the bounds of American law. CNN's Mark Potter is in Pensacola, Florida. He's been following the fate of Derek and Alex King. Tell us what's the latest twist in this very, very strange story. Go ahead.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, very strange indeed. In a mediated settlement between the defense and prosecution, Alex and Derek King, ages 13 and 14 pleaded guilty to Third Degree Murder in connection with the beating death of their father last November.
This means, of course, there will be no retrial now. Alex was given a seven-year prison sentence. His older brother Derek was given eight years. Both will get credit for time served. They will spend their time at one of two facilities, either near Tampa or Vero Beach, Florida. These are state prison facilities that house only juveniles.
The mediator in the case, Bill Eddins (ph) said that it is important now for these boys to have years of stability and structure in their lives, which those items were missing from their lives for years. As part of the deal also, they had to confess their role in the killing of their father. Judge Frank Bell read that confession in open court in which the boys also talked about their ties to 41-year- old Ricky Chavez who was accused of hiding evidence in the case and having sex with one of the boys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JUDGE FRANK BELL, ESCAMBIA CO. CIRCUIT COURT: "He told us that dad would kill us before he would let us live with Rick. He told us that he might have to protect us from our dad. He told us that our dad mentally abused Alex by "staring him down" which Rick said was extreme mental abuse. On the night of my dad's death, Alex told me that Rick was going to come by and pick us up at midnight. Alex suggested that I kill dad. I murdered my dad with an aluminum baseball bat. I set the house on fire from my dad's bedroom."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POTTER: Now the boy's biological mother, Kelly Marino, who gave up the boys years ago for foster care said she opposes this plea deal complaining that she was shut out of the mediation process. She also argues that the boys are simply too young to make such a momentous decision.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY MARINO, MOTHER: They're 13 and 14 years old. They're not able to make this judgment for the rest of their lives and none of us were allowed to have a say in that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POTTER: Now, in response to her criticism, the prosecutor said of the boys: "They wouldn't be going to the state pen if she was paying more attention to them when they were in the playpen." At the end of the hearing, Alex and Derek were fingerprinted. They will undergo two to four weeks of processing and testing, and then they will go off to a state prison facility -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Mark Potter, Mark thanks very much for that report. And, the decision about Derek and Alex King's future has been made but is it justice? Cathy Corry is with justice4kids.org. It's an advocacy group for children and adults trying to navigate Florida's juvenile justice system. She's joining us now live from Tampa. Thanks so much, Kathy, for joining us. Was justice served today?
CATHY CORRY, JUSTICE4KIDS.ORG: No. I believe justice was not served. These two young boys are children. They deserve to be treated as the juveniles that they are and not prosecuted as adults. They are not --
BLITZER: But in effect -- let me interrupt for a second, Cathy. In effect, though, today this agreement that was worked out, this settlement which they both have accepted is a lot less than any adult would have received for this kind of crime.
CORRY: Yes, absolutely. It's better than the worst case scenario but it still is against what we believe should be happening to our children. They are not emotionally, mentally, physiologically; psychologically mature enough to make proper decisions and choices in their lives and to be held accountable as adults for those decisions. We don't let children vote. We don't let drive or drink alcohol and they should have been afforded juvenile justice. BLITZER: At this point according to Florida law, according with the current law of Florida what you're suggesting is you want that law to be changed?
CORRY: Absolutely. I would like to have it be where prosecutors did not have discretion to transfer children to the adult court system.
BLITZER: But the prosecutors in this particular case had no choice given the current law that exists on the books, is that right?
CORRY: I don't know the law. It's my understanding that they did have the choice. Again, I'm not an expert in that area but from people that have told me who are experts, there is a choice in the matter and it's just easier for them to transfer it to adult court.
With adult court, you do get a jury trial. In Juvenile Court, you do not get a jury trial. Often people believe that is a better deal to at least get a jury of your peers but we believe that the adult sanctions are much more severe than juvenile sanctions for juveniles.
BLITZER: (AUDIO GAP) in your efforts as well. There is a verdict now, we are told, a verdict in that case in Florida involving a gun distributor and an individual, a young man, who killed his teacher. We're going to bring you that verdict as soon as we come back.
The White House, meanwhile, has some harsh words for (AUDIO GAP). We'll have a closer look. Also, will homeland security mean giving up all your privacy, the debate over what some are calling Big Brother gone bad. And a CNN exclusive Navy SEALS training for war in the Persian Gulf, our own Kyra Phillips went along on a secret mission. She'll join us live, but first a look at some news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice over): Smiling suspect, Indonesian police say the prime suspect in last month's deadly Bali bombing shows no remorse for the crime. Pictures of the suspect smiling, laughing, and waving during an unusual public interrogation have produced outrage in Australia, home to at least 66 of the bombing victims.
Having their say, anti-globalization activists have gathered in Australia to protest a meeting of the World Trade Organization. Demonstrators scuffled with police who arrested 19 people, including three women who lay naked on a U.S. flag.
Detour, demonstrators in Peru used burning tires and chunks of rock to block the Pan American Highway. They want the government to give them titles to the land where they live and to provide sanitation and electricity.
A new generation is taking charge in China. Chinese communists named a new central committee and, for the first time, it includes not a single veteran of the 1949 revolution. The only member of the top leadership elected to another term was China's vice president who's expected to succeed President Jiang Zemin.
Of pigs and politics, a Belgian performance artist has found an unusual way to protest rising tensions between the United States and Iraq. He's spending three days in a cage with a pig. The specific relationship between pigs and peace is a little unclear. The performer wants the project to speak for itself and the pig won't squeal, and that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
BLITZER: Two years ago a 13-year-old Florida boy walked into a classroom and fatally shot his teacher. Now, a jury has decided if the distributor of the gun Nathaniel Brazill used to shoot teacher Barry Grunow should share in the blame. CNN's John Zarrella is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Tell us the outcome of this contentious four-week trial. John, what happened?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Wolf, I think it's still going to be contentious even now after the verdict has been read. The jury found on one of four of the principal counts that, and I'll read this for clarity: "Was there negligence on the part of Valor Corporation?" That's the company that distributed the gun. They couldn't go after the manufacturer because the manufacturer is out of business.
was there negligence on the part of Valor Corporation supplying the Raven MP-25," commonly known as the Saturday Night Special, "without feasible safety measures, which was a legal cause of damage to plaintiff." And, the jury found yes, but they also found that the Valor Corporation was only five percent responsible and the jury in total to the widow of Barry Grunow and her two children found that the widow got $10 million and the two children got $7 million each, a total of $24 million but that's only $1.2 million roughly because it's only a five percent award.
Now, her attorneys are saying they're going to go back to the court and say that because this jury found that Nathaniel Brazill in one of the questions intentionally shot Barry Grunow, but under Florida law the judge can give them the entire $24 million that the jury awarded and put that responsibility all on Valor Corporation. But that is yet to be determined, Wolf, right now only five percent liability. Is this a landmark case? Not yet. Attorneys say perhaps but only on appeal if all of this stands up on appeal -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And if it stands up, it would certainly send a powerful message out there to other gun distributors and manufacturers.
ZARRELLA: Absolutely, Wolf. There are a few cases working their way through the court system right now. In fact, a lot of organizations, anti-gun organizations were on hand here, have been on hand here watching this trial very carefully to see how it shakes out. Certainly in those other courtrooms around the country where those cases are working their way through the legal system, it is also being watched very carefully to see what ultimately happens here in Florida -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John Zarrella, thanks for that update, a potentially landmark case, a potentially very significant case. We'll be continuing to watch that. John Zarrella, our Miami Bureau Chief, thanks very much.
What the Feds know and what they should share with the public is, of course, a constant question of balance. The FBI is catching heat from the White House for alerting hospitals in four major U.S. cities to an unconfirmed threat of possible attacks over the holidays. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is following the story. She's joining me now live. Jeanne, this is a complicated but potentially significant story as well.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. Wolf, administration officials say there are a lot of potential targets for terrorist attacks about which they're worried and hospitals are not at the top of the list, but it was this FBI warning to hospitals in San Francisco, Chicago, Houston, and Washington, D.C. that caused concern today in those cities and within the administration.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice over): The warning from the FBI about possible anthrax or bomb attacks prompted some hospital in the four affected cities to take additional precautions.
JIM EATON, CALIF. PACIFIC MEDICAL CTR.: We alert our security staff. We alert our mailroom staff. We alert our regular staff to be cautious of packages, cautious of things that are out of place, and to be really on a higher alert status than we normally would be.
MESERVE: But displeased White House officials said the intelligence on which the warning was based had very low credibility and was not corroborated. They criticized the FBI for "getting people unnecessarily alarmed." Said one official: "They should not have put this information out." An FBI official in Houston explained why they did.
BOB DOGIUM, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: But the responsible thing to do is as we gather intelligence information is to share the intelligence information.
MESERVE: There have been warnings in the past about railroads, banks, nuclear power plants, and other critical infrastructure. These have gone through an established interagency process to ensure that the information is credible and that the affected industries and the public have some context and instructions about what to do.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (on camera): The information about hospitals did not go through that same interagency process according to officials. The White House is communicating its displeasure to the FBI and a review is underway to make sure it doesn't happen again -- Wolf.
BLITZER: In the meantime, of course, the damage is done. A lot of people are going to be nervous going to hospitals in those four cities over the next few months.
MESERVE: They may be, Wolf. This is a very difficult situation with which intelligence officials have to grapple all the time. In the post-9/11 environment, if they get information about a threat, should they communicate it to the public if they know about it or should they remain quiet? In this instance, obviously the FBI choosing to move ahead but other officials tell me they get so much information it should be vetted very carefully. In this case, the White House officials telling me this information should not have gone out to the public.
BLITZER: All right, a very delicate balancing act. Jeanne Meserve thanks very much. He was a central figure in the Iran Contra scandal, so should this man have the power to collect virtually all your private information for the sake of national security? A closer look at the broad spying powers your government could soon have over your life.
Also, a dark side in the Catholic Church revealed a small number of nuns accused of sexual abuse, the story of shame and fear. Plus, did Miss Cleo predict this, a multimillion dollar penalty against the queen of the psychic hotline.
And Navy SEALS in action training for the mission of their lives, we'll take you live to the Persian Gulf for a CNN exclusive, but first today's news quiz. The Navy SEALS completed their first secret mission during which war, World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, the answer coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A surprising twist in the sex abuse scandal plaguing the Roman Catholic Church, a Boston area nun has been suspended following allegations she molested a fifth grade girl at an Indiana school in the 1960s, and the case is not the first of its kind. CNN's Boston Bureau Chief Bill Delaney explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL DELANEY, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): Amid the outcry over alleged sexual abuse by Catholic priests, whispers about other alleged abuse by Catholic nuns. This woman says she was seven when for months in the 1960s her second grade teacher molested her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would put her hands up my clothes, up my underwear and do whatever she wanted to do.
DELANEY: Only in her 30s after therapy did she begin to talk about it. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People who have been molested by nuns are really, really closeted about it. They truly believe that they are the only ones and so they have no motivation to come forward. I don't think it is as widespread as the priests but I think it is more widespread than people are willing to believe.
DELANEY: A 1995 book, "Habits of Sin" investigated the issue. The author, presently too ill to appear on camera, says alleged victims from 23 states contacted her. With the average age of nuns in the United States now 70, most allegations date back a quarter century or more, though a long time counselor told CNN he'd encountered cases from the late '80s and early '90s, none resulting in lawsuits or public disclosure, a pattern in cases involving nuns.
Andrew Ketterer, a former attorney general of Maine, after decades of silence only a few years ago told a state panel what he says happened to him in second grade in New Jersey.
ANDREW KETTERER, ALLEGED ABUSE VICTIM: It was a long time ago but I can remember it like it was yesterday. She would start on my face, kissing, kissing all the way down to my lips and then long kisses on the lips that, to me, they seemed like they lasted forever.
DELANEY: Former nun and counselor Yvonne Maes believes sexual misconduct among sisters is rare but also rarely reported.
YVONNE MAES, FORMER NUN: I have had disclosures to me, very serious disclosures of women by women who were abused by nuns.
DELANEY (on camera): Most sisters are nuns, of course, like most priests have never had anything to do with hurting the young. The Southdown Institute, a mental health facility that specializes in treating church professionals says of some 2,500 women religious treated there in the past 37 years, only seven-tenths of one percent engaged in sexual abuse of a minor, compared to in the same period 15 percent of some 2,500 male clergy.
DELANEY (voice over): Even small percentages, though, of concern.
SISTER DONNA MARKHAM, SOUTHDOWN INSTITUTE: As someone who has experienced nothing but real gift and privilege to be a member of the Dominican order. It's very painful for me to hear that anyone could have been victimized by a woman religious.
DELANEY: Alleged victims' psychotherapists, former nuns we spoke to repeatedly predicted more stories now than ever before will emerge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're kind of coming in on the coattails of the priest issue. We're always the last ones for anyone to acknowledge. Hopefully, that will change so that the healing can begin.
DELANEY: Bill Delaney CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Two CNN exclusives when we come back, first a front seat ride with the Navy SEALS as they train at an undisclosed location in the Persian Gulf. Then, urban combat on the streets of Baghdad, a 3-D view of what U.S. troops could face on the ground if they go in. And, your privacy versus national security, find out why the government could very soon be watching your every electronic move. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- the Navy SEALS completed their first secret mission during which war? The answer, Vietnam. The SEALS traced their history back to the SEABIES (ph) back in World War II, but they got their official start in 1962.
Welcome back to CNN. I'm Wolf Blitzer. Coming up, we'll take you on a ride along with the Navy SEALS as they train in the Persian Gulf.
Now that Iraq has promised to comply with U.N. orders on disarmament and inspections, the world is ready to see whether it keeps that promise. The Pentagon is preparing for the possibility it won't. CNN's Kyra Phillips got a behind-the-scenes look at some Special Forces training in the Gulf region. She's joining us now live from Kuwait City via videophone with this exclusive report.
Kyra, tell us what you saw and heard?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, if a war with Iraq has to happen, yes, there will be air strikes, yes, there will be huge forces, not only by land and air, but all also from the sea. And that's where naval special warfare finds its comfort zones within the combat zones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS (voice-over): God, country and fast boats, speed, stealth and surprise. Two mantras from Navy men with one mission -- combat readiness for sea, air and land. You're witnessing naval special warfare from the rib boats to the Mark-5 Special Operations craft.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a very low rate, our signature. We can maneuver extremely well. We can get in and out of places virtually undetected.
PHILLIPS: Navy SEALS and combatant crewmen training together for a potential war against Iraq.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're very small. We're elite. We're a tight knit unit and we can do the kinds of things that others just simply can't.
PHILLIPS: For reasons of military security, we cannot identify these men. We can't even tell you where we are, but we can show you how these unique warriors train for the nature of their battlefield, the Persian Gulf.
(on camera): The perfect case scenario with any SEALS mission is to get in and out of an area without being seen or heard. But in a high threat situation, these men say anything is possible with enemy forces. So weapons proficiency is paramount.
(voice-over): Firing 50 caliber machine guns and grenade launchers, not easy at sea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily being able to remain a beat on a target as you're trying to compensate for the pitch and the roll of the small craft. It's both a science and an art form.
PHILLIPS: But marksmanship is just one tool in the Special Operations arsenal. These frogmen say their real weapon here is stealth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a basic pistol belt; get the pistol in the holster, put a little flashlight in here. This is for spare pistol mags. This is a weapons cache for primary weapon. Move that off to the side and keep it out of the way.
PHILLIPS: Prepared for close quarter battle, SEALS depend on the zodiac moving them to and from any clandestine operation quickly from underwater recon to demolition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's small. It's hard to detect. You can fit a lot of guys, a lot of gear on it. If something happens to it underway, while we're out working, we can actually repair it while we're out to sea.
PHILLIPS: Out to sea training for every eventuality, day and night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me a holler when you're ready to come up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At a moment's notice, whenever the call comes, we are ready, trained, prepared and rehearsed to perform our role, whatever that role may be.
PHILLIPS: A role these men are confident will make a real difference in any conflict with Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Now Wolf, the assets and abilities don't stop there. These men in Special Forces are also underwater navigators, combat divers, expert swimmers and parachutists. They also conduct advance surveillance -- surveillance, rather -- figuring out the location, the activity and also the routes of enemy forces -- Wolf.
BLITZER: It seems like given the mood, given what we've seen; they're ready to go. They're pumped, primed. If the order were given tomorrow, they'd be ready to move. Is that fair to say that? PHILLIPS: Absolutely, Wolf. And you can't help but feel that when you're out on the Special Operations watercraft going about 55 knots and just seeing the adrenaline pump through all their veins. And they told me, every single one of them, they think about their families, they think about their kids, but if President Bush says they've got to go to war, they're ready on a moment's notice, Wolf.
BLITZER: Kyra Phillips doing some excellent reporting for us over these past several weeks in the Persian Gulf. Kyra, be safe out there. We'll see you when you get back here. Thanks very much for joining us.
And a new war in the Persian Gulf could be quite different from the 1991 conflict. U.S. troops could face street-to-street combat in Baghdad. The Pentagon is using computer technology to prepare precisely for that possibility. CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has an exclusive report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LANG CRAIGHILL, HOMELAND SECURITY INITIATIVES: We're coming up on the memorial.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Baghdad.
CRAIGHILL: This is the Republican Guard headquarters.
MCINTYRE: This is not a videogame. It's a 3-D animation of the real streets and real buildings of the Iraqi capital, complete with the GPS coordinates created by Harris Corporation from satellite images taken in August.
CRAIGHILL: It puts you into that spot, so if you are in that location, this is exactly what you would see.
MCINTYRE: The idea is to give U.S. forces a very realistic preview of the ground they may be fighting for in a few months and help avoid the kind of deadly firefight that pinned down U.S. troops in Somalia in 1993.
CRAIGHILL: If you saw "Blackhawk Down," in that urban combat situation, there was a little command and control for the group to understand how to exit the scene. And this type of tool would have given them comfort with the environments and acknowledgement how to leave.
COL. RANDY GANGLE, U.S. MARINES (RET): One of the great difficulties of this battle is going to be -- is locating the enemy because he can hide a very large Army in a city of five million people very successfully. He can't defend the entire city. We can't clear the entire city. So it's going to be a game of cat and mouse, where urban patrolling is going to be one of the -- I believe, one of the keys to success.
CRAIGHILL: If you've been in a large city, it's extremely difficult and you lose your orientation and bearing very quickly. But as long as you've seen the environment before you've moved in and you're able to go through this and rehearse it any number of times before you actually land in the city.
MCINTYRE: The software can all be used as U.S. troops are engaged in urban warfare. For instance, calculating where a sniper may be firing from, so a smart bomb can take him out.
(on camera): For years, the U.S. military's rule of thumb when it came to urban combat was to avoid it. That may not be possible this time, but if U.S troops do fight in the streets of Baghdad, they will have every advantage U.S. technology can provide.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And please join me for a full hour of Iraq coverage everyday at noon Eastern on "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." Among my guests tomorrow, Joe Wilson. He's the former U.S. ambassador to Iraq. He was the last U.S. official to meet personally with Saddam Hussein. Tomorrow, noon Eastern.
And as the U.N. weapons inspection team arrives in Cyprus this weekend, stay with CNN over the course of the entire weekend for complete coverage indeed from the entire region. We'll have reports from Baghdad, Kuwait City and Cyprus.
Big brother may soon be watching your every electronic move. The debate over privacy versus national security when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Word of a new government effort to track terrorist are drawing comparisons to big brother and putting some concerns about privacy and safety in direct competition. Our national security correspondent David Ensor has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Everyone knows that computer databases are full of information about each of us. Credit card companies know what we buy. Supermarkets know our eating habits. Different parts of the government know how much money we make and our driving history. The idea the Defense Department is getting researched is whether using supercomputers, the U.S. could develop a way to put all that information together to look for patterns, patterns that might help catch a terrorist before he attacks. To put it mildly, the idea is controversial.
PETER KORNBLUH, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: This is a program that incorporates all of the big brother operations that the American public has feared from its government for all these years and that the Constitution has protected us from -- spying, invasion of privacy, you name it. And Admiral Poindexter, of all people, is now in charge of that program. ENSOR: That's right. Admiral John Poindexter, who was President Reagan's national security adviser, is in charge of the Defense Department research project.
RONALD REAGAN, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE United States: He was nominated first in his class at the Naval Academy.
ENSOR: With a reputation for brilliance, Poindexter is controversial, too. He was indicted and sentenced for giving false testimony to Congress about his role in the Iran-Contra scandal, though his conviction was later overturned. In a speech, Poindexter described what his office wants to go after this way. "If terrorist organizations are going to plan and execute attacks against the United States their people must engage in transactions and they will leave signatures in this information space."
Now, throw in a newspaper column, which states that the new bill founding the Homeland Security Department would create such a program to spy on Americans, and you have still more controversy.
REP. CURT WELDON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: We are not talking about spying on individual American citizens.
ENSOR: Congressman Curt Weldon says though that the ideas Poindexter is working on are needed in the war on terrorism, for use only overseas.
WELDON: That capability needs to be in place from an intelligence standpoint especially with those that we're monitoring on foreign individuals, on bad guys around the world and bad groups to understand what might be in the planning stage or what might occur in America.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: Less anyone worry that big brother is just about to start watching them. If the capable is ever created, if, that would some years from now, officials say. And they stress again, it would only be used against targets overseas -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor, thanks very much. Joining me now to discuss the implications of this is Marc Rotenberg. He's the executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.
Marc, thanks for joining us. What's wrong, a lot of Americans will say? What's wrong with giving up a little bit of privacy in order to protect our overall national security?
MARC ROTENBERG, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: Wolf, we have a system of Constitutional protections in this country that safe guard the privacy rights of Americans. And while we certainly recognize the need to go after terrorists and to protect public safety, this particular program, in effect, pushes aside those Constitutional safe guards. It's a sacrifice on basic liberty for Americans. BLITZER: But if it's going to save lives, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of lives, if you do polls, poll after poll after poll, always the same rule comes up. Americans are willing to sacrifice some of their privacy in order to protect the overall good of the country.
ROTENBERG: Well, first of all, it's not clear that this program will be successful. This is a lot of money being thrown at high technology that hasn't been tested. There are greater demands for better linguists, better interpretation and law enforcement agencies. That would be a better route to go.
But secondly, I don't think Americans are prepared to sacrifice their civil liberties. We had a big debate over the national I.D. card in this country over the past year and on balance, Americans said they were not prepared to accept a national system of identification. And here, as well, when it would involve going through people's financial records, bank records, educational records, what you buy at a supermarket, that's information that should only be obtained by governments under warrant.
BLITZER: And if it's only used though to deal with terror threats abroad as opposed to here domestic law enforcement?
ROTENBERG: Those are independent determinations that have to be made by the judiciary, and by the Congress, by public review. It cannot be left to the executive branch to decide for itself whether or not it's going too far. That would be against the American system of checks and balances and essentially putting aside the Fourth Amendment principle that safe guards Americans' right to privacy.
BLITZER: You looked at the Homeland Security Department legislation carefully, the bill that was passed by the House of Representatives. It doesn't go as far as has been suggested and that would authorize this kind of invasion of privacy.
ROTENBERG: I think the Homeland Security Act that's currently being considered by the Senate opens a very big door for Mr. Poindexter and allows him to walk through that door with a massive system of surveillance that would be quite compatible with the aims of the legislation. And that is really something that the sponsors and the Congress need to consider.
BLITZER: If there is an opportunity though for this kind of technology to find terrorists in the United States or abroad, in order to stop them from doing something before they do it, how far do you think the government should go in using this technology?
ROTENBERG: I think the government should use tools that are appropriate to find terrorists and protect public safety. There is no question about that. But they have to be done legally. They have to be done consistent with Constitutional principles. They have to be done in a way that safe guards freedom in the United States.
BLITZER: This is a story I'm sure that's going to continue, and it's going to continue to generate a lot of excitement on both sides. Marc, thanks for joining us.
ROTENBERG: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Here's your choice to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Questions of The Day" is this -- are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf. I'd love to know what you're thinking. And while you're there, of course, I'd love to also get some comments, some questions. We try to read as many of them on the air each day at the end of this program as we possibly can. That's also of course where you can read my daily online column, CNN.com/Wolf.
Murder and conspiracy rocked the music world. Notorious hip-hop label, Death Row Records, searched by police. Arrests warrants issued. We go live to Los Angeles for the latest in the investigation when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our "Web Question of The Day." Are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? Log on to CNN.com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Earlier we asked -- are you willing to sacrifice your privacy for national security? Look at this. Twenty-seven percent of you say yes, 73 percent of you say no. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. Join me tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern, also noon Eastern for "SHOWDOWN IRAQ." Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.
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