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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Gunmen Kills At Least a Dozen in Hebron

Aired November 15, 2002 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): A dire warning from the FBI. Al Qaeda may be planning a spectacular terror attack, so why isn't the administration raising the threat level?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We would ask Americans to do what the president has asked them a number of times to do, which is remain vigilant.

BLITZER: The weapons hunt, on the day his Middle East journey begins, the U.N.'s chief arms inspectors says he means business.

HANS BLIX, U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think the United States government is determined that there shall be no cat and mouse play.

BLITZER: Controversial dismissal, is don't ask, don't tell interfering with the war on terror? A man turns up at a Texas high school with a shotgun. The students thought they were going to die. Teachers had other ideas. People who know basketball just call it the punch and we'll talk with the man who threw it, one notorious moment a quarter of a century ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injuries Rudy suffered were roughly akin to someone who's gone through the windshield of a car traveling 50 miles an hour.

BLITZER: How it changed the lives of two athletes forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): It's Friday, November 15, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Today, a big catch in the war on terror, so big the man captured is one of Osama bin Laden's top 20 men. Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor is joining us now with this breaking story -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say officials I'm speaking to are saying this is a big catch, definitely a big catch. They're not saying much more. They are saying he's one of the top 20 or so in the al Qaeda leadership, captured we believe last week. He is being held at an unknown location overseas. He, of course, joins a couple of other senior al Qaeda officials, Abu Zubaydah and Ramsi Bin al-Sheib (ph), both being held by the CIA in foreign countries at undisclosed locations. This man will be interrogated closely and, obviously, that's the priority right now, not making public very much about this.

They have said, however, there are a few people that we're not talking about. Osama bin Laden is not captured nor is his son Saud, nor is Ayman Al-Zawahiri and nor is Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, but excepting those and excepting those that have already been captured, we're not trying to compile a list, Wolf, to see if we can figure out who might be the likely new prisoner that the United States has. But this is very big news. They're very pleased. They feel they'll be able to get some good leads out of this man -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope they do. David Ensor thanks very much. Spectacular attacks, mass casualties, severe damage to the U.S. economy and maximum psychological trauma, those ominous words are made even more chilling by their source, an FBI warning about possible new attacks by al Qaeda. CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports on the growing concern.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The words leap off the page spectacular attacks, a stark and striking phrase never seen in previous warnings. This alert sent in a weekly bulletin to law enforcement after an uptick in credible intelligence about al Qaeda and a recent audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden. Officials say it is not news that al Qaeda is bent on destruction.

RICE: The warnings that have gone out recently really are a summary of intelligence, not a new warning. This is a summary of intelligence as we know it.

MESERVE: The warning speaks of possible mass casualties, severe damage to the economy, maximum psychological trauma, and says likely targets are the aviation, petroleum, and nuclear sectors or national landmarks. It also raises the possibility of smaller low-tech attacks against less protected targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're trying to tell us that there's a very good chance, based on background information that something will happen.

MESERVE: Concern over al Qaeda has been growing steadily. CIA Director George Tenet last month.

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Al Qaeda is in an execution phase and intends to strike us both here and overseas.

MESERVE: A warning about railroads and other critical infrastructure, one of two public warnings issued in the past month and officials actually began drafting this one two weeks ago. Increased customs and immigration inspections at the nation's borders, an example of how the government has been ramping up security.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: We have taken additional protective measures to protect our critical infrastructure, both public and private, and secure our borders. There is unprecedented cooperation going on, both public and private at the federal, state, and local level.

MESERVE: An administration officials says law enforcement and some federal agencies are already operating very near threat level orange, representing high risk, though the country officially remains a step below at yellow.

MESERVE (on camera): There is some reluctance, officials say, to raise the threat level to orange because of the potential disruption to citizens and commerce, but the administration is also lacking one thing it needs to move the level up, specific intelligence about when, where, and by what means a terrorist attack might take place. Jeanne Meserve CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The curve we, as a nation, have been navigating since the September 11th attacks, the roller coaster from fear to complacency, back to fear, seems to be nearing a high point. Why? Well the answer to that helps answer why the FBI chose to say what it did.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): With security tight all over the world, you don't have to be Chicken Little to think something is up. Just ask the British prime minister.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: They are looking for ever more dramatic and devastating outrages to inflict upon the people they claim to be their enemy.

BLITZER: Europe is on high alert. The head of Interpol, an American with an office in France, gave a rare interview to a Paris newspaper. His phrase, "something worrying is going on." Last month, a French oil tanker had a hole blown in its hull off the Yemeni coast. Days later, U.S. marines were shot at during exercises off Kuwait. Southeast Asia was already on high alert when a bomb attack struck Bali, Indonesia.

CNN's Mike Boettcher broke the news last week that groups allied with al Qaeda and Hezbollah were in South America's tri-border region plotting major attacks. Despite what it looks like, most experts believe this is not a coordinated string of events. After last year's siege on Tora Bora in eastern Afghanistan, al Qaeda operatives were told to go home to conduct smaller attacks on soft targets while the leadership went on the run.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Al Qaeda's lost its base in Afghanistan. It's now a much more virtual organization that uses the Internet. BLITZER: And now the leadership has spoken up. Last month, twin statements, the first apparently from bin Laden, the next from his right-hand man Ayman al-Zawahiri threatened attacks. Both mentioned the U.S. economy.

BERGEN: I think we can infer that there will be attacks on America and economic targets around the world and there will be further attacks on European targets around the world.

BLITZER: And this week another direct threat from bin Laden. "As you kill us, we will kill you," increased rhetoric leading to understandable fear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): So, could September 11th repeat itself? Paul Bremmer served as the U.S. ambassador-at-large for counterterrorism in the 1990s. He's currently a member of the President's Homeland Security Advisory Council as well as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of March Crisis Consulting. He joins us now live from New York. Ambassador, thanks as usual for joining us. I don't know about you but when I hear the FBI speak about spectacular attacks, mass casualties, severe damage, they've certainly caught my attention.

PAUL BREMMER, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM AMB.: Well, I think it's been pretty obvious for the last say six weeks or so that we're entering in to new phase here. I think the al Qaeda organization was severely damaged by the attacks we conducted last year. They went on the run. Late in the spring they began to reconstitute a little bit of command and control, and we certainly have seen a number of attacks which may have been done by autonomous groups.

But, what's ominous in the last six weeks is these two attacks that you just mentioned, the attack on the French tanker and the attack in Bali, both of which were much better organized, much more sophisticated attacks than we'd seen in the last say six months.

And then, we've had these three tapes that have been released by al Qaeda leaders, apparently by al Qaeda leaders, in any case by somebody in al Qaeda and, we've seen this act before. Before the last big attacks in East Africa on the Cole, bin Laden tended to issue warnings in effect with his public statements. So, we're in a very high threat environment, there's no question.

BLITZER: Well, that begs the question why don't they change the threat level status right now? It's still yellow elevated, but if we're at a new level right now, why not go to the higher level orange, which is a high risk of a possible terrorist strike?

BREMMER: Look, the government has to make a very difficult call here, Wolf, and I being outside the government am not competent to do that and as Condi Rice apparently said, the question here is that you don't have a lot of specific information that would allow you to say the attack will come against this target at that time, which would perhaps be an indication to move to a higher threat level. It's a very difficult call. My sympathies are with the people who have to make it. If you don't raise the level and something happens, you'll be criticized. If you raise the level and nothing happens, you're accused of crying Wolf.

BLITZER: But, ambassador, this time we have actually heard Osama bin Laden's voice. By all accounts that is his voice. He's making some very, very direct threats indicating not only he's alive but he's kicking.

BREMMER: Well, I think that is his voice. I've all along thought that he survived the attacks in Afghanistan and I don't find it surprising that we hear from him now. The only good news is he apparently is not putting out videotapes, which may indicate that he's pretty sick or not looking very well and that would be good news.

But, we shouldn't kid ourselves. Al Qaeda is going to be with us for a long time here until we can root these guys out. It's good news if there's been an important arrest, as you reported at the top of the hour, but there are tens of thousands of these guys around, including here in the United States.

BLITZER: It's an ominous situation that all of us are facing. Ambassador Paul Bremmer thanks as usual for your expertise.

BREMMER: Nice to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you. And, if U.S. troops go into Iraq, would their equipment fail them? Would they have enough training? Coming up, reservations about their safety plus, a school gunman wrestled to the ground. We'll meet the heroes. And, nine army linguists discharged for being gay. Is it time to change the don't ask, don't tell policy? We'll have that debate. That's still to come but first a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Trade talks protests, hundreds of protesters clash with riot police in Sydney, Australia, site of a World Trade Organization meeting. Protesters say they oppose globalization and a possible war with Iraq. At least 35 people were arrested.

New generation leader, China's Communist Party picks Hu Jintao as its new general secretary, a move that virtually assures his election as president next year. Unknown to most Chinese Hu takes over from Jiang Zemin who's retiring from the party post but retaining the powerful position of chief of the military.

Striking firefighters, British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he won't give in to firefighters' demands for a 40 percent wage hike. Union leaders threaten more strikes if their demands aren't met. The first 48-hour strike ended today.

Bad luck pigs, a truck carrying 34 pigs to a slaughter house crashed inside a tunnel in Tokyo. Police closed part of the major highway as they rounded up porkers making their escape. Six pigs died from shock. The others were taken to their original destination.

A very old Mickey Mouse, a 700-year-old Fresco found in Austria has a figure strongly resembling the Walt Disney character. The medieval Mickey stands among a group of animals and mythical beasts. Local tourist officials speculate their village could become a Mecca for Mickey fans everywhere, and that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we told you at the top of the hour, a Jewish Sabbath celebration turned deadly in the West Bank today. Israeli authorities say at least 12 people were killed in Hebron when Palestinian militants opened fire on a group of Jews on their way to prayer services. CNN's Matthew Chance is covering the story. He's joining me now live from Jerusalem -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf, and those are indeed the latest casualty figures that we have from the Israeli Security Forces saying that 12 people have been killed as a result of that Palestinian gun attack on the group of Jewish worshippers leaving, we're told, the Tomb of the Patriarchs in central Hebron. They were set upon as they moved to the southern outskirts of the city, ambushed by those Palestinian gunmen.

Israeli Defense Force personnel arrived on the scene, engaged in a firefight with the Palestinian gunman. Evacuations took place under fire, ambulances and helicopters moving the injured out of that area. The Israeli Defense Forces say they believe it was a coordinated attack. Islamic Jihad, one of the premiere Palestinian militant groups says it carried out this attack -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Matthew Chance thanks very much. We'll be bracing for the Israeli retaliation, which I assume will be coming soon. Now, to the situation involving Iraq and the hunt for weapons, an advance team of U.N. weapons inspectors is due to arrive in Baghdad Monday. Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix today warned that Iraq must reveal all of its weapons programs to the inspectors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLIX: I think the United States government is determined that there shall be no cat and mouse play and this is how I also understood that the Security Council takes that view. Zero tolerance is a very strict word, certainly cat and mouse is something that I'm sure will not be tolerated in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Bush administration has stated repeatedly that it believes Iraq does have chemical and biological weapons and is prepared to use them. That raises this important question, are American forces trained and equipped to handle them? A recent congressional study suggests they may not be ready.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Nine o'clock Sunday morning, soldiers from the 82nd Airborne wait patiently for the opposing force to invade their territory. For 28 days, these soldiers train at the Mojave Desert at the National Training Center to prepare for war and, with Saddam Hussein as the enemy that means preparing for a chemical and biological attack.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: In this war, Saddam may very well use chemical weapons because he knows he has nothing much to lose. We're coming after his head anyway.

BLITZER: What that means for U.S. soldiers is facing weapons that can paralyze a man in seconds, possibly kill him in minutes. As part of their training, soldiers react to simulated chemical attacks like this release of teargas. But despite the extensive preparation, lawmakers on Capitol Hill have pointed to inadequacies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you will give before this subcommittee will be the truth?

GROUP OF UNIDENTIFIED MALES: I do.

RAYMOND DECKER, GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE: While we found that DOD has made some improvements in equipment, training, and readiness reporting, we are continuing to have concerns in each of these areas.

BLITZER: At the hearing, the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, reported problems like equipment shortages and ignorance of the condition of existing equipment.

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: That hearing clearly illustrated we're not ready yet. We have a number of challenges. We need to make sure the suits, the gloves, the boots, the masks are at the units that need them, when they need them, where they need them, that they have time to train with them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And for much more on possible war with Iraq, please be sure to watch "CNN PRESENTS" Sunday. I'll explore five key questions in the ongoing showdown with Iraq. It airs Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

BLITZER (on camera): A potentially deadly rampage averted at a Texas school. When we return, the plan that worked, students and teachers kick into action after a gunman storms their school. Also, these two linguists and seven others discharged from the U.S. Army. Is their sexuality more important than their language skills, the debate still to come? And the punch heard around the world, a look back at a tragic moment that made sports history. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was mayhem this morning in an East Texas high school. Authorities say a man terrorized students and teachers before he was wrestled to the ground. CNN's Ed Lavandera has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The day had just started at Scurry Rosser (ph) High School, just southwest of Dallas, when a man armed with a shotgun and a gasoline can entered the school. He walked by the front office. School officials immediately ordered a lockdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just panic. Everybody was panicking. Everybody -- I heard people already starting to cry and they was just running and they was running over teachers and other students. They didn't care. They just wanted to get out of there.

LAVANDERA: He walked into the cafeteria where about 100 students were hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: he walked in real calm and he still didn't say a word, shut the doors and started pouring gasoline around the perimeters of the cafeteria.

LAVANDERA: The students in the cafeteria started fearing the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like we're going to die or something. I was scared and when I smelled gas, I thought he was going to light us all on fire and I was just scared.

LAVANDERA: That's when Principal Richard Sneed approached the gunman.

RICHARD SNEED, PRINCIPAL: At that time, he pointed. He had been waving the gun back and forth at our students and I said "what are you doing" and he said "dont' get any closer" and stuck the gun toward my stomach and when he did that, I grabbed the barrel and shoved it up to the ceiling.

LAVANDERA: One school official said at that point it was like panthers jumping on a jackrabbit. A group of students and school officials wrestled the gunman to the ground. No one was injured and police have an 18-year-old former student in custody. What compelled you to go up to him and grab the barrel of the gun?

SNEED: Quick thinking after I made up my mind he was not going to hurt our students, and after that well, you know, everything just action took over and I just wasn't going to let him hurt the students and that was it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're heroes. I mean they saved our lives. If they wouldn't have done that, I don't know what he would have done.

LAVANDERA: In less than four minutes, the whole ordeal was over but the memory of what happened on this school day will be a lesson no one here will ever forget. Ed Lavandera CNN, Scurry, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): The U.S. military is facing a serious shortage of military linguists, so why did it discharge nine of them, the debate over don't ask, don't tell. Also your chance to weigh in, log on to cnn.com/wolf to vote on our web question of the day: Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists? We'll have our debate. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Experts say translators are vital to the war on terror but several army linguists are out of work because of their sexual orientation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Officials tell CNN nine people were discharged for violating the so-called don't ask, don't tell policy on gays in the military. The army has acknowledged the dismissals but has declined to comment further. Six of the nine had been studying to translate Arabic. They were kicked out at a time when U.S. military and civilian intelligence agencies face a critical shortage of translators.

The government has been desperate for people fluid in Arabic and Pashtun since the September 11th attacks.

GLENN NORDIN, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT: We are in danger. If we cannot communicate and understand the languages spoken in areas of instability and hostility toward the U.S., we can only shout or shoot or hope and pray that they speak and understand American vernacular.

BLITZER: Seven of the nine were discharged after telling superiors that they were gay. The other two were caught together after curfew.

The military's code of conduct says a soldier will be normally discharged for homosexual conduct if he or she has engaged in, attempted to engage in or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act; has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual; or has married or attempted to marry a person of the same biological sex.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy has been controversial since it first went into place in 1993.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So should the Army have looked the other way or stuck to its guns? We'll hear both sides of this debate when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: How much harm could one punch be? You're about to witness a near worst-case scenario that after 25 years is still not forgotten. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Just before the break, we told you about the Army's decision to dismiss nine gay linguists.

We have two guests joining us to debate that decision. They're retired Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis, who has advised the Pentagon on gays in the military. He's a contributing columnist for United Press International.

And Sharra Greer. She's the legal director of the Service Members Legal Defense Network.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. The Pentagon says this is simply a matter of the policy "don't ask, don't tell." If you acknowledge being gay or you some sort of homosexual act, you're out.

SHARRA GREER, SERVICE MEMBERS LEGAL DEFENSE NETWORK: And I think it's a striking example of why that is such a horrible policy. We have lost nine bright, capable individuals who have skills that are necessary for us now more than ever. Particularly the six individuals who are Arabic linguists.

BLITZER: That's a valid point. In this war on terrorism, do you need linguists, you need people that can speak Arabic, translate Arabic. Why throw them out?

LT. COL. BOB MAGINNIS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yeah, Wolf, it's minimal loss, quite frankly, when you're looking at a 3.4 million- person organization with civilians and military.

I'm a graduate of Defense Language Institute. I had a proficiency. But the fact is, it takes years to develop the technical proficiency after the language school to really be of any real value to the military.

So I really don't see, given the administrative discharges and medical discharges that take place all the time during the school, that it's a major issue here.

BLITZER: Why do you think it is a major issue, if there's so many people out there that you can potentially fill those slots?

GREER: Well it's certainly not what is being said on Capitol Hill in terms of there being a lot of people being out there. And these were people who were at the Army's premiere language institute, who were getting good grades for the most part, who were close to completion of their training, and who were about to go out and start making a difference in the war effort.

I disagree with Colonel Maginnis on that point.

And yet now, because of their sexual orientation, they're no longer serving our country. And I think that's a great loss.

And I think it's part of the larger picture of the three to four people every day who are kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation.

BLITZER: One of the discharged linguists says this: "It's not a gay rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues. They're throwing out good, quality people."

MAGINNIS: Well, you know, Wolf, the fact is that most of these people, seven, as I recall, were, you know, they went to their commander and said, "Look, I'm a homosexual."

You had to be asleep for the last decade to recognize that the military is not gay friendly. We had this big debate in '93. We have a very clear law that says homosexuals are not going to serve in the military.

Now, there is a double pretense here, and it's called "don't ask, don't tell." The military pretends because it doesn't ask the question up front that it doesn't care that you're a homosexual and you serve. And it also requires the homosexual to say, "Look, I have to stay in the closet in order to serve."

The reality is, cohesion, morale, discipline, we settled that with the Congress with 10USC-654 back in '93. Bill Clinton signed that law recognizing that this is not something we want to do.

So the personnel policies are very straightforward.

BLITZER: What about that, Sharra?

GREER: Well, I think there's two points here. I mean, I think the first point is the -- raising the issue of people telling, if that was what's really behind this. I think that's really a red herring.

The people who made the statements, and my organization represented several of them, are coming forward with really complicated reasons. And you have to understand what it's like to live under "don't ask and don't tell."

BLITZER: But they knew the rules of the game when they enlisted; when they joined the U.S. Army, they knew about this policy towards homosexuals.

GREER: And you're also making the assumption that all of them knew that they were gay, lesbian or bisexual at that point in time, which is not necessarily true.

But the underlying point being that they're asked to serve without ever talking about their private life, their personal life and in a complete closet. And for them, for most of them, they would continue serving, were they permitted to talk about their lives.

BLITZER: All right. Let me read another e-mail we got in from Michigan for you, colonel: "The administration is more concerned with their own religious views than our national security. We are at war with terrorists that don't discriminate when it comes to killing Americans. We shouldn't discriminate against those who have volunteered to serve and protect us." MAGINNIS: It is a serious issue. We're at war and we have a lot of enemies that hate Americans. They don't care if they're gay or straight.

But the reality is that we went through the whole process of saying whether or not open homosexuality was going to impact military readiness. Schwarzkopf, Powell, all the leaders of the military said from years back that, yes, it has a detrimental impact. We don't want a polarizing influence in the ranks. And that was the conclusion. And they convinced a Democratic Congress.

BLITZER: Let me give you the last word. Go ahead, Sharra.

GREER: I mean, I think quite frankly that was the wrong assessment. I think if you look at the United Kingdom, which since '93 has lifted its ban, who we fight alongside all of the time. Canada, all of the European union. All the other major allies of ours who we are fighting alongside allow open service.

I think it was wrong to conclude that it harms the cohesion and morale. I think the examples out there show...

BLITZER: So you have to go back to the legislation, redo all the laws, but as the law of the land stands right now, it's "Don't ask, don't tell."

We have to, unfortunately, Colonel, Sharra, leave it right there. Thanks for joining us. This is an important issue which we will revisit. Thanks very much.

Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our Web question of the day is this: Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists? We'll have the results later in this program. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf.

While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column: Cnn.com/Wolf.

When we come back, we'll a new development involving the war on Iraq. Actually, we're going to try to do it right now.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre is standing by. He's over at the Pentagon. Jamie?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, ever since Iraq accepted the U.N. disarmament resolution Wednesday, there's been a question of whether it's been withholding its fire against planes patrolling the new-fly zone.

We got the answer a short time ago. No. Both anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missiles were fired at U.S. planes today. The U.S. responded, attacking an air defense center that is southeast of Baghdad. This is, according to the Pentagon, a breach of the U.N. Resolution 1441, the disarmament resolution. It is a violation of it, but not necessarily a material breach. That would be something that would actually be a justification for war.

That resolution says simply that Iraq shall not take, threaten, or hostile acts against anybody supporting any U.N. resolution. So the question now to the Pentagon, to the U.S. government is, is it going to tolerate Iraq continuing to fire at U.S. planes as Iraq says it's being cooperative with the U.N.?

Wolf?

BLITZER: So, Jamie, just to be precise, as we all know over these many years the Iraqis have often fired at U.S. and British planes patrolling the northern and southern the no-fly zones.

But this is the first time it has happened since that U.N. Security Council resolution of last Friday was passed. And as a result it could be seen as a breach, as a violation of that U.N. agreement?

MCINTYRE: Yes, that's absolutely right. In fact, they fired ten times at U.S. planes since the U.N. passed the resolution, but they hadn't fired since they accepted the resolution on Wednesday. This is the first time since then.

It's really going to be a matter for the U.N. and for the U.S. to decide whether they want to deem this to be a material breach of the disarmament resolution or whether they want to keep the no-fly zones and the disarmament as two separate things.

BLITZER: All right. We'll be watching that important story. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, thanks very much.

And when we come back, it's the punch that changed two lives and an entire sport. Now the man who threw it is speaking out and looking back. Has time changed his feelings? Find out when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Fighting is certainly nothing new in sports. Many critics even argue it's all too common, especially in the professional ranks.

But 25 years ago an incident at an ordinary NBA basketball game shocked both players and fans.

In his new book, sports commentator John Feinstein says the sport has never been the same.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: December 9, 1977. A routine NBA game turns tragic.

Rockets star Rudy Tomjanovich rushes to break up a fight and is caught flush in the face by Lakers forward Kermit Washington.

JOHN FEINSTEIN, AUTHOR, THE PUNCH: The injuries Rudy suffered were roughly akin to someone who has gone through the windshield of a car traveling 50 miles an hour.

BLITZER: The punch shattered several bones in Tomjanovich's face. Doctors found that his skull was dislocated and spinal fluid was leaking from his brain. He almost died that night and needed five surgeries.

The fallout from the punch had already begun.

FEINSTEIN: Everybody in the building had a sense that something horrific had occurred, including Kermit. And when he left that night, as he was leaving, the guy who watched the cars for the Laker players in their parking lot said to him "Kermit, I saw what happened; you're in trouble."

BLITZER: John Feinstein, in his book "The Punch," tells the story of how one split second lapse in judgment so drastically changed a powerful, professional sports league and two people's lives.

FEINSTEIN: In Kermit's case, it took what essentially was a movie of the week story -- kid from the inner city, four points a game average in high school, recruited by nobody, gets taken on a chance recruitment by American University, becomes first team All-American in basketball, two-time academic all-American, student speaker at graduation, fifth pick in the NBA draft, self-made player, self-made man, a wonderful story, and put a shadow over that life.

In Rudy's case, aside from the physical injuries, he, for 20 years, had a recurring dream in which he died.

BLITZER: Tomjanovich went through alcoholism and rehab. But also became a successful coach, winning two NBA championships with the Rockets and an Olympic gold medal.

Washington's basketball career faltered after that. He went through a divorce, but battled back to establish a charity that provides medicine and clinics to needy people in Africa.

He's wanted to get back into the NBA for years as a coach, but has run into a wall.

FEINSTEIN: There's no memo out there that says, "Do not hire this man," but I do think that when NBA teams look at his resume and they see all of these positives -- the college degree, they know he's bright, they know he was one of the first athletes to do serious weight training. They know he worked with the great Pete Newel at his big man's camp so he knows how to coach, there are these two invisible words that don't appear on the resume: Rudy Tomjanovich.

BLITZER: Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich didn't speak for years afterwards until Washington finally apologized.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: And joining me now is Kermit Washington, the man who threw that punch.

Kermit, thanks for joining us. Talk about that split second that so dramatically changed your life and Rudy Tomjanovich's life.

KERMIT WASHINGTON: Well, first, good morning. What happened that night -- it was back in L.A. -- is there was a rebound. Kareem, myself and Kevin Kunnert were back there. And Kevin Kunnert had got the rebound. And he threw the rebound down court.

I turned around to go down court and tried to push myself in front of Kevin. And as I was pushing myself in font of Kevin, I received an elbow to the head. And at first I thought it was a mistake by Kevin.

So I looked at him, I thought he was going to say he's sorry. But then I turned around, I got another elbow or a fist to the head. And I realized then it wasn't an accident. So a fight broke out.

And as the fight broke out, I saw Rudy Tomjanovich running toward me. And I didn't think that he had anything -- good intentions on his mind. But after meeting Rudy I know that he's telling the truth that he was just coming back to break the fight up.

But what you have to realize, back in the '70s, there were fights every single night. So 90 percent of the people that are running after you -- that are running at you ,are not running at you for your good health. They're out there to really get you.

So I made a mistake in judgment. And on Rudy's part, I've told Rudy many times I'm sorry about what happened.

But as I said, 90 percent of the guys in those days, they weren't running at you to break up a fight, they were running at you to probably try to hurt you.

BLITZER: Do you feel you paid this enormous price for that one split second mistake and you've effectively been blackballed from the NBA?

WASHINGTON: I wouldn't say blackballed, but it would be very difficult to hire me. Because if you look at it, a coach that hired me, they would be judged themselves. People would ask them the question, why are you hiring Kermit Washington? What kind of person are you?

So most coaches aren't that comfortable enough with themselves or secure enough to maybe take the chance of hiring a person like Kermit Washington, where most people, the majority of people, think of me negatively.

BLITZER: Well, a lot of people think of you positively right now because of what you've devoted your life to in recent years. Tell our viewers what you're doing right now. WASHINGTON: Well, first of all, and thanks for the book and John Feinstein for writing the book because it's brought Rudy and myself together again. But the way that I can benefit from the book is first of all, is tell everybody that I've hurt, that I'm sorry and thank everybody who had been helping me.

But once again, though, what I'm doing overseas in the Third World nations, we go over there with medical supplies, doctors and nurses, and we work very hard to help them overseas.

There's a book store that is donating most of the salary -- excuse me, most of the money that they make from the book to what we do over in Third World nations.

And if people buy the book at somanybooks.net, you can buy it online. And that way I benefit from that. And what it does, it helps buy medicine and pays for the doctors and nurses for us to go overseas to work. So I appreciate the book and I appreciate you having me, but just remember somanybooks.net. And it will benefit what we do over in the Third World nations.

BLITZER: Kermit Washington, good luck to you. I remember your days at American University here in Washington. And I wish you only the best.

WASHINGTON: Thank you very much for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we invited Rudy Tomjanovich to join us, as well. Unfortunately his hectic, very busy schedule, made that impossible. Maybe on another occasion we'll speak to him. An amazing, amazing story.

And we have some news that's just coming in right now. The man best known for his role as Pee-Wee Herman may -- we repeat -- may be in trouble with the law once again.

CNN's Charles Feldman is going us now from Los Angeles. What's going on, Charles?

CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, on a day when we're all talking about terrorism alerts, leave it to Hollywood to come up with not one but two potential sex scandals.

One involving Paul Reubens, as you said, best known as Pee-Wee Herman. We're told that he is in negotiations, he and his attorney right now with the Los Angeles city attorney's office, and he could be charged with one misdemeanor count of having improper photographs involving minors. And if that happens, that would be a misdemeanor charge.

But you may all remember that about, oh, ten years ago or so, I think it was 1991, Mr. Reubens got into trouble in an adult movie theater for exposing himself after he was masturbating in the theater. And that led to a real eclipse of his career, which has recently been resuscitated.

But this may lead to some other problems here with him in Hollywood.

But Wolf, I mentioned a double scandal. The other one is much more serious, potentially. It involves another well known actor, an actor by the name of Jeffrey Jones, best known for his role as the principal in the "Ferris Bueller" movies.

And he was arrested and charged in a criminal complaint, much more serious than a misdemeanor charge. And he's accused of abusing a teenage boy by making a sexually explicit motion picture. And he is now out on bail.

But again, the charge involving Jeffrey Jones, potentially more serious, it is a felony count. The one involving Paul Reubens, if it happens, if there's an agreement between Mr. Reubens and the city's attorney's office, would be a misdemeanor count.

Wolf?

BLITZER: Charles Feldman, bringing us the latest scandals from Hollywood. Thanks very much, Charles.

Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our web question of the day: "Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists?" Log on to CNN.Com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now here's how you're weighing in on our web question of the day.

Earlier we asked, was Army the right to discharge nine gay linguists despite the shortage of military specialists? Look at this: 38 percent of you say yes, 62 percent of you say no.

You can find the exact tally. By the way, continue to vote on my website CNN.Com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Let's get to your e-mail. William writes this: "Bin Laden may be the greatest immediate threat, but if Saddam Hussein is allowed to obtain weapons of mass destruction, he will be our greatest threat. It will not be necessary for Iraq to have a direct delivery system when he can just use human beings to deliver weapons into our country."

David writes this: "Iraq is a distracting political sidebar; Osama bin Laden is the real deal and the American people know it. Has President Bush forgotten September 11?"

Mark write: "Any site that inspectors are denied access to should be destroyed by cruise missiles within one hour of denial. That should be hard-fast policy. Then Iraq will know anything hidden will be destroyed."

That's all the time we have today. Join me Sunday at noon eastern for "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday. Among my guests Sunday, the Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington; "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 15, 2002 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): A dire warning from the FBI. Al Qaeda may be planning a spectacular terror attack, so why isn't the administration raising the threat level?

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We would ask Americans to do what the president has asked them a number of times to do, which is remain vigilant.

BLITZER: The weapons hunt, on the day his Middle East journey begins, the U.N.'s chief arms inspectors says he means business.

HANS BLIX, U.N. CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think the United States government is determined that there shall be no cat and mouse play.

BLITZER: Controversial dismissal, is don't ask, don't tell interfering with the war on terror? A man turns up at a Texas high school with a shotgun. The students thought they were going to die. Teachers had other ideas. People who know basketball just call it the punch and we'll talk with the man who threw it, one notorious moment a quarter of a century ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The injuries Rudy suffered were roughly akin to someone who's gone through the windshield of a car traveling 50 miles an hour.

BLITZER: How it changed the lives of two athletes forever.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): It's Friday, November 15, 2002. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Today, a big catch in the war on terror, so big the man captured is one of Osama bin Laden's top 20 men. Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor is joining us now with this breaking story -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say officials I'm speaking to are saying this is a big catch, definitely a big catch. They're not saying much more. They are saying he's one of the top 20 or so in the al Qaeda leadership, captured we believe last week. He is being held at an unknown location overseas. He, of course, joins a couple of other senior al Qaeda officials, Abu Zubaydah and Ramsi Bin al-Sheib (ph), both being held by the CIA in foreign countries at undisclosed locations. This man will be interrogated closely and, obviously, that's the priority right now, not making public very much about this.

They have said, however, there are a few people that we're not talking about. Osama bin Laden is not captured nor is his son Saud, nor is Ayman Al-Zawahiri and nor is Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, but excepting those and excepting those that have already been captured, we're not trying to compile a list, Wolf, to see if we can figure out who might be the likely new prisoner that the United States has. But this is very big news. They're very pleased. They feel they'll be able to get some good leads out of this man -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, let's hope they do. David Ensor thanks very much. Spectacular attacks, mass casualties, severe damage to the U.S. economy and maximum psychological trauma, those ominous words are made even more chilling by their source, an FBI warning about possible new attacks by al Qaeda. CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports on the growing concern.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The words leap off the page spectacular attacks, a stark and striking phrase never seen in previous warnings. This alert sent in a weekly bulletin to law enforcement after an uptick in credible intelligence about al Qaeda and a recent audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden. Officials say it is not news that al Qaeda is bent on destruction.

RICE: The warnings that have gone out recently really are a summary of intelligence, not a new warning. This is a summary of intelligence as we know it.

MESERVE: The warning speaks of possible mass casualties, severe damage to the economy, maximum psychological trauma, and says likely targets are the aviation, petroleum, and nuclear sectors or national landmarks. It also raises the possibility of smaller low-tech attacks against less protected targets.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're trying to tell us that there's a very good chance, based on background information that something will happen.

MESERVE: Concern over al Qaeda has been growing steadily. CIA Director George Tenet last month.

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Al Qaeda is in an execution phase and intends to strike us both here and overseas.

MESERVE: A warning about railroads and other critical infrastructure, one of two public warnings issued in the past month and officials actually began drafting this one two weeks ago. Increased customs and immigration inspections at the nation's borders, an example of how the government has been ramping up security.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: We have taken additional protective measures to protect our critical infrastructure, both public and private, and secure our borders. There is unprecedented cooperation going on, both public and private at the federal, state, and local level.

MESERVE: An administration officials says law enforcement and some federal agencies are already operating very near threat level orange, representing high risk, though the country officially remains a step below at yellow.

MESERVE (on camera): There is some reluctance, officials say, to raise the threat level to orange because of the potential disruption to citizens and commerce, but the administration is also lacking one thing it needs to move the level up, specific intelligence about when, where, and by what means a terrorist attack might take place. Jeanne Meserve CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The curve we, as a nation, have been navigating since the September 11th attacks, the roller coaster from fear to complacency, back to fear, seems to be nearing a high point. Why? Well the answer to that helps answer why the FBI chose to say what it did.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): With security tight all over the world, you don't have to be Chicken Little to think something is up. Just ask the British prime minister.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: They are looking for ever more dramatic and devastating outrages to inflict upon the people they claim to be their enemy.

BLITZER: Europe is on high alert. The head of Interpol, an American with an office in France, gave a rare interview to a Paris newspaper. His phrase, "something worrying is going on." Last month, a French oil tanker had a hole blown in its hull off the Yemeni coast. Days later, U.S. marines were shot at during exercises off Kuwait. Southeast Asia was already on high alert when a bomb attack struck Bali, Indonesia.

CNN's Mike Boettcher broke the news last week that groups allied with al Qaeda and Hezbollah were in South America's tri-border region plotting major attacks. Despite what it looks like, most experts believe this is not a coordinated string of events. After last year's siege on Tora Bora in eastern Afghanistan, al Qaeda operatives were told to go home to conduct smaller attacks on soft targets while the leadership went on the run.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Al Qaeda's lost its base in Afghanistan. It's now a much more virtual organization that uses the Internet. BLITZER: And now the leadership has spoken up. Last month, twin statements, the first apparently from bin Laden, the next from his right-hand man Ayman al-Zawahiri threatened attacks. Both mentioned the U.S. economy.

BERGEN: I think we can infer that there will be attacks on America and economic targets around the world and there will be further attacks on European targets around the world.

BLITZER: And this week another direct threat from bin Laden. "As you kill us, we will kill you," increased rhetoric leading to understandable fear.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): So, could September 11th repeat itself? Paul Bremmer served as the U.S. ambassador-at-large for counterterrorism in the 1990s. He's currently a member of the President's Homeland Security Advisory Council as well as Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of March Crisis Consulting. He joins us now live from New York. Ambassador, thanks as usual for joining us. I don't know about you but when I hear the FBI speak about spectacular attacks, mass casualties, severe damage, they've certainly caught my attention.

PAUL BREMMER, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM AMB.: Well, I think it's been pretty obvious for the last say six weeks or so that we're entering in to new phase here. I think the al Qaeda organization was severely damaged by the attacks we conducted last year. They went on the run. Late in the spring they began to reconstitute a little bit of command and control, and we certainly have seen a number of attacks which may have been done by autonomous groups.

But, what's ominous in the last six weeks is these two attacks that you just mentioned, the attack on the French tanker and the attack in Bali, both of which were much better organized, much more sophisticated attacks than we'd seen in the last say six months.

And then, we've had these three tapes that have been released by al Qaeda leaders, apparently by al Qaeda leaders, in any case by somebody in al Qaeda and, we've seen this act before. Before the last big attacks in East Africa on the Cole, bin Laden tended to issue warnings in effect with his public statements. So, we're in a very high threat environment, there's no question.

BLITZER: Well, that begs the question why don't they change the threat level status right now? It's still yellow elevated, but if we're at a new level right now, why not go to the higher level orange, which is a high risk of a possible terrorist strike?

BREMMER: Look, the government has to make a very difficult call here, Wolf, and I being outside the government am not competent to do that and as Condi Rice apparently said, the question here is that you don't have a lot of specific information that would allow you to say the attack will come against this target at that time, which would perhaps be an indication to move to a higher threat level. It's a very difficult call. My sympathies are with the people who have to make it. If you don't raise the level and something happens, you'll be criticized. If you raise the level and nothing happens, you're accused of crying Wolf.

BLITZER: But, ambassador, this time we have actually heard Osama bin Laden's voice. By all accounts that is his voice. He's making some very, very direct threats indicating not only he's alive but he's kicking.

BREMMER: Well, I think that is his voice. I've all along thought that he survived the attacks in Afghanistan and I don't find it surprising that we hear from him now. The only good news is he apparently is not putting out videotapes, which may indicate that he's pretty sick or not looking very well and that would be good news.

But, we shouldn't kid ourselves. Al Qaeda is going to be with us for a long time here until we can root these guys out. It's good news if there's been an important arrest, as you reported at the top of the hour, but there are tens of thousands of these guys around, including here in the United States.

BLITZER: It's an ominous situation that all of us are facing. Ambassador Paul Bremmer thanks as usual for your expertise.

BREMMER: Nice to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you. And, if U.S. troops go into Iraq, would their equipment fail them? Would they have enough training? Coming up, reservations about their safety plus, a school gunman wrestled to the ground. We'll meet the heroes. And, nine army linguists discharged for being gay. Is it time to change the don't ask, don't tell policy? We'll have that debate. That's still to come but first a look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Trade talks protests, hundreds of protesters clash with riot police in Sydney, Australia, site of a World Trade Organization meeting. Protesters say they oppose globalization and a possible war with Iraq. At least 35 people were arrested.

New generation leader, China's Communist Party picks Hu Jintao as its new general secretary, a move that virtually assures his election as president next year. Unknown to most Chinese Hu takes over from Jiang Zemin who's retiring from the party post but retaining the powerful position of chief of the military.

Striking firefighters, British Prime Minister Tony Blair says he won't give in to firefighters' demands for a 40 percent wage hike. Union leaders threaten more strikes if their demands aren't met. The first 48-hour strike ended today.

Bad luck pigs, a truck carrying 34 pigs to a slaughter house crashed inside a tunnel in Tokyo. Police closed part of the major highway as they rounded up porkers making their escape. Six pigs died from shock. The others were taken to their original destination.

A very old Mickey Mouse, a 700-year-old Fresco found in Austria has a figure strongly resembling the Walt Disney character. The medieval Mickey stands among a group of animals and mythical beasts. Local tourist officials speculate their village could become a Mecca for Mickey fans everywhere, and that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we told you at the top of the hour, a Jewish Sabbath celebration turned deadly in the West Bank today. Israeli authorities say at least 12 people were killed in Hebron when Palestinian militants opened fire on a group of Jews on their way to prayer services. CNN's Matthew Chance is covering the story. He's joining me now live from Jerusalem -- Matthew.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Wolf, and those are indeed the latest casualty figures that we have from the Israeli Security Forces saying that 12 people have been killed as a result of that Palestinian gun attack on the group of Jewish worshippers leaving, we're told, the Tomb of the Patriarchs in central Hebron. They were set upon as they moved to the southern outskirts of the city, ambushed by those Palestinian gunmen.

Israeli Defense Force personnel arrived on the scene, engaged in a firefight with the Palestinian gunman. Evacuations took place under fire, ambulances and helicopters moving the injured out of that area. The Israeli Defense Forces say they believe it was a coordinated attack. Islamic Jihad, one of the premiere Palestinian militant groups says it carried out this attack -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Matthew Chance thanks very much. We'll be bracing for the Israeli retaliation, which I assume will be coming soon. Now, to the situation involving Iraq and the hunt for weapons, an advance team of U.N. weapons inspectors is due to arrive in Baghdad Monday. Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix today warned that Iraq must reveal all of its weapons programs to the inspectors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLIX: I think the United States government is determined that there shall be no cat and mouse play and this is how I also understood that the Security Council takes that view. Zero tolerance is a very strict word, certainly cat and mouse is something that I'm sure will not be tolerated in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Bush administration has stated repeatedly that it believes Iraq does have chemical and biological weapons and is prepared to use them. That raises this important question, are American forces trained and equipped to handle them? A recent congressional study suggests they may not be ready.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Nine o'clock Sunday morning, soldiers from the 82nd Airborne wait patiently for the opposing force to invade their territory. For 28 days, these soldiers train at the Mojave Desert at the National Training Center to prepare for war and, with Saddam Hussein as the enemy that means preparing for a chemical and biological attack.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: In this war, Saddam may very well use chemical weapons because he knows he has nothing much to lose. We're coming after his head anyway.

BLITZER: What that means for U.S. soldiers is facing weapons that can paralyze a man in seconds, possibly kill him in minutes. As part of their training, soldiers react to simulated chemical attacks like this release of teargas. But despite the extensive preparation, lawmakers on Capitol Hill have pointed to inadequacies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you will give before this subcommittee will be the truth?

GROUP OF UNIDENTIFIED MALES: I do.

RAYMOND DECKER, GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE: While we found that DOD has made some improvements in equipment, training, and readiness reporting, we are continuing to have concerns in each of these areas.

BLITZER: At the hearing, the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, reported problems like equipment shortages and ignorance of the condition of existing equipment.

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: That hearing clearly illustrated we're not ready yet. We have a number of challenges. We need to make sure the suits, the gloves, the boots, the masks are at the units that need them, when they need them, where they need them, that they have time to train with them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And for much more on possible war with Iraq, please be sure to watch "CNN PRESENTS" Sunday. I'll explore five key questions in the ongoing showdown with Iraq. It airs Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern, 5:00 Pacific.

BLITZER (on camera): A potentially deadly rampage averted at a Texas school. When we return, the plan that worked, students and teachers kick into action after a gunman storms their school. Also, these two linguists and seven others discharged from the U.S. Army. Is their sexuality more important than their language skills, the debate still to come? And the punch heard around the world, a look back at a tragic moment that made sports history. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was mayhem this morning in an East Texas high school. Authorities say a man terrorized students and teachers before he was wrestled to the ground. CNN's Ed Lavandera has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The day had just started at Scurry Rosser (ph) High School, just southwest of Dallas, when a man armed with a shotgun and a gasoline can entered the school. He walked by the front office. School officials immediately ordered a lockdown.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was just panic. Everybody was panicking. Everybody -- I heard people already starting to cry and they was just running and they was running over teachers and other students. They didn't care. They just wanted to get out of there.

LAVANDERA: He walked into the cafeteria where about 100 students were hiding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: he walked in real calm and he still didn't say a word, shut the doors and started pouring gasoline around the perimeters of the cafeteria.

LAVANDERA: The students in the cafeteria started fearing the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was like we're going to die or something. I was scared and when I smelled gas, I thought he was going to light us all on fire and I was just scared.

LAVANDERA: That's when Principal Richard Sneed approached the gunman.

RICHARD SNEED, PRINCIPAL: At that time, he pointed. He had been waving the gun back and forth at our students and I said "what are you doing" and he said "dont' get any closer" and stuck the gun toward my stomach and when he did that, I grabbed the barrel and shoved it up to the ceiling.

LAVANDERA: One school official said at that point it was like panthers jumping on a jackrabbit. A group of students and school officials wrestled the gunman to the ground. No one was injured and police have an 18-year-old former student in custody. What compelled you to go up to him and grab the barrel of the gun?

SNEED: Quick thinking after I made up my mind he was not going to hurt our students, and after that well, you know, everything just action took over and I just wasn't going to let him hurt the students and that was it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're heroes. I mean they saved our lives. If they wouldn't have done that, I don't know what he would have done.

LAVANDERA: In less than four minutes, the whole ordeal was over but the memory of what happened on this school day will be a lesson no one here will ever forget. Ed Lavandera CNN, Scurry, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (on camera): The U.S. military is facing a serious shortage of military linguists, so why did it discharge nine of them, the debate over don't ask, don't tell. Also your chance to weigh in, log on to cnn.com/wolf to vote on our web question of the day: Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists? We'll have our debate. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Experts say translators are vital to the war on terror but several army linguists are out of work because of their sexual orientation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice over): Officials tell CNN nine people were discharged for violating the so-called don't ask, don't tell policy on gays in the military. The army has acknowledged the dismissals but has declined to comment further. Six of the nine had been studying to translate Arabic. They were kicked out at a time when U.S. military and civilian intelligence agencies face a critical shortage of translators.

The government has been desperate for people fluid in Arabic and Pashtun since the September 11th attacks.

GLENN NORDIN, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT: We are in danger. If we cannot communicate and understand the languages spoken in areas of instability and hostility toward the U.S., we can only shout or shoot or hope and pray that they speak and understand American vernacular.

BLITZER: Seven of the nine were discharged after telling superiors that they were gay. The other two were caught together after curfew.

The military's code of conduct says a soldier will be normally discharged for homosexual conduct if he or she has engaged in, attempted to engage in or solicited another to engage in a homosexual act; has stated that he or she is a homosexual or bisexual; or has married or attempted to marry a person of the same biological sex.

The "don't ask, don't tell" policy has been controversial since it first went into place in 1993.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So should the Army have looked the other way or stuck to its guns? We'll hear both sides of this debate when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: How much harm could one punch be? You're about to witness a near worst-case scenario that after 25 years is still not forgotten. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Just before the break, we told you about the Army's decision to dismiss nine gay linguists.

We have two guests joining us to debate that decision. They're retired Lieutenant Colonel Bob Maginnis, who has advised the Pentagon on gays in the military. He's a contributing columnist for United Press International.

And Sharra Greer. She's the legal director of the Service Members Legal Defense Network.

Thanks to both of you for joining us. The Pentagon says this is simply a matter of the policy "don't ask, don't tell." If you acknowledge being gay or you some sort of homosexual act, you're out.

SHARRA GREER, SERVICE MEMBERS LEGAL DEFENSE NETWORK: And I think it's a striking example of why that is such a horrible policy. We have lost nine bright, capable individuals who have skills that are necessary for us now more than ever. Particularly the six individuals who are Arabic linguists.

BLITZER: That's a valid point. In this war on terrorism, do you need linguists, you need people that can speak Arabic, translate Arabic. Why throw them out?

LT. COL. BOB MAGINNIS, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Yeah, Wolf, it's minimal loss, quite frankly, when you're looking at a 3.4 million- person organization with civilians and military.

I'm a graduate of Defense Language Institute. I had a proficiency. But the fact is, it takes years to develop the technical proficiency after the language school to really be of any real value to the military.

So I really don't see, given the administrative discharges and medical discharges that take place all the time during the school, that it's a major issue here.

BLITZER: Why do you think it is a major issue, if there's so many people out there that you can potentially fill those slots?

GREER: Well it's certainly not what is being said on Capitol Hill in terms of there being a lot of people being out there. And these were people who were at the Army's premiere language institute, who were getting good grades for the most part, who were close to completion of their training, and who were about to go out and start making a difference in the war effort.

I disagree with Colonel Maginnis on that point.

And yet now, because of their sexual orientation, they're no longer serving our country. And I think that's a great loss.

And I think it's part of the larger picture of the three to four people every day who are kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation.

BLITZER: One of the discharged linguists says this: "It's not a gay rights issue. I'm arguing military proficiency issues. They're throwing out good, quality people."

MAGINNIS: Well, you know, Wolf, the fact is that most of these people, seven, as I recall, were, you know, they went to their commander and said, "Look, I'm a homosexual."

You had to be asleep for the last decade to recognize that the military is not gay friendly. We had this big debate in '93. We have a very clear law that says homosexuals are not going to serve in the military.

Now, there is a double pretense here, and it's called "don't ask, don't tell." The military pretends because it doesn't ask the question up front that it doesn't care that you're a homosexual and you serve. And it also requires the homosexual to say, "Look, I have to stay in the closet in order to serve."

The reality is, cohesion, morale, discipline, we settled that with the Congress with 10USC-654 back in '93. Bill Clinton signed that law recognizing that this is not something we want to do.

So the personnel policies are very straightforward.

BLITZER: What about that, Sharra?

GREER: Well, I think there's two points here. I mean, I think the first point is the -- raising the issue of people telling, if that was what's really behind this. I think that's really a red herring.

The people who made the statements, and my organization represented several of them, are coming forward with really complicated reasons. And you have to understand what it's like to live under "don't ask and don't tell."

BLITZER: But they knew the rules of the game when they enlisted; when they joined the U.S. Army, they knew about this policy towards homosexuals.

GREER: And you're also making the assumption that all of them knew that they were gay, lesbian or bisexual at that point in time, which is not necessarily true.

But the underlying point being that they're asked to serve without ever talking about their private life, their personal life and in a complete closet. And for them, for most of them, they would continue serving, were they permitted to talk about their lives.

BLITZER: All right. Let me read another e-mail we got in from Michigan for you, colonel: "The administration is more concerned with their own religious views than our national security. We are at war with terrorists that don't discriminate when it comes to killing Americans. We shouldn't discriminate against those who have volunteered to serve and protect us." MAGINNIS: It is a serious issue. We're at war and we have a lot of enemies that hate Americans. They don't care if they're gay or straight.

But the reality is that we went through the whole process of saying whether or not open homosexuality was going to impact military readiness. Schwarzkopf, Powell, all the leaders of the military said from years back that, yes, it has a detrimental impact. We don't want a polarizing influence in the ranks. And that was the conclusion. And they convinced a Democratic Congress.

BLITZER: Let me give you the last word. Go ahead, Sharra.

GREER: I mean, I think quite frankly that was the wrong assessment. I think if you look at the United Kingdom, which since '93 has lifted its ban, who we fight alongside all of the time. Canada, all of the European union. All the other major allies of ours who we are fighting alongside allow open service.

I think it was wrong to conclude that it harms the cohesion and morale. I think the examples out there show...

BLITZER: So you have to go back to the legislation, redo all the laws, but as the law of the land stands right now, it's "Don't ask, don't tell."

We have to, unfortunately, Colonel, Sharra, leave it right there. Thanks for joining us. This is an important issue which we will revisit. Thanks very much.

Here's your chance to weigh in on this story. Our Web question of the day is this: Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists? We'll have the results later in this program. Vote at CNN.com/Wolf.

While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column: Cnn.com/Wolf.

When we come back, we'll a new development involving the war on Iraq. Actually, we're going to try to do it right now.

CNN's Jamie McIntyre is standing by. He's over at the Pentagon. Jamie?

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, ever since Iraq accepted the U.N. disarmament resolution Wednesday, there's been a question of whether it's been withholding its fire against planes patrolling the new-fly zone.

We got the answer a short time ago. No. Both anti-aircraft guns and surface-to-air missiles were fired at U.S. planes today. The U.S. responded, attacking an air defense center that is southeast of Baghdad. This is, according to the Pentagon, a breach of the U.N. Resolution 1441, the disarmament resolution. It is a violation of it, but not necessarily a material breach. That would be something that would actually be a justification for war.

That resolution says simply that Iraq shall not take, threaten, or hostile acts against anybody supporting any U.N. resolution. So the question now to the Pentagon, to the U.S. government is, is it going to tolerate Iraq continuing to fire at U.S. planes as Iraq says it's being cooperative with the U.N.?

Wolf?

BLITZER: So, Jamie, just to be precise, as we all know over these many years the Iraqis have often fired at U.S. and British planes patrolling the northern and southern the no-fly zones.

But this is the first time it has happened since that U.N. Security Council resolution of last Friday was passed. And as a result it could be seen as a breach, as a violation of that U.N. agreement?

MCINTYRE: Yes, that's absolutely right. In fact, they fired ten times at U.S. planes since the U.N. passed the resolution, but they hadn't fired since they accepted the resolution on Wednesday. This is the first time since then.

It's really going to be a matter for the U.N. and for the U.S. to decide whether they want to deem this to be a material breach of the disarmament resolution or whether they want to keep the no-fly zones and the disarmament as two separate things.

BLITZER: All right. We'll be watching that important story. Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent, thanks very much.

And when we come back, it's the punch that changed two lives and an entire sport. Now the man who threw it is speaking out and looking back. Has time changed his feelings? Find out when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Fighting is certainly nothing new in sports. Many critics even argue it's all too common, especially in the professional ranks.

But 25 years ago an incident at an ordinary NBA basketball game shocked both players and fans.

In his new book, sports commentator John Feinstein says the sport has never been the same.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: December 9, 1977. A routine NBA game turns tragic.

Rockets star Rudy Tomjanovich rushes to break up a fight and is caught flush in the face by Lakers forward Kermit Washington.

JOHN FEINSTEIN, AUTHOR, THE PUNCH: The injuries Rudy suffered were roughly akin to someone who has gone through the windshield of a car traveling 50 miles an hour.

BLITZER: The punch shattered several bones in Tomjanovich's face. Doctors found that his skull was dislocated and spinal fluid was leaking from his brain. He almost died that night and needed five surgeries.

The fallout from the punch had already begun.

FEINSTEIN: Everybody in the building had a sense that something horrific had occurred, including Kermit. And when he left that night, as he was leaving, the guy who watched the cars for the Laker players in their parking lot said to him "Kermit, I saw what happened; you're in trouble."

BLITZER: John Feinstein, in his book "The Punch," tells the story of how one split second lapse in judgment so drastically changed a powerful, professional sports league and two people's lives.

FEINSTEIN: In Kermit's case, it took what essentially was a movie of the week story -- kid from the inner city, four points a game average in high school, recruited by nobody, gets taken on a chance recruitment by American University, becomes first team All-American in basketball, two-time academic all-American, student speaker at graduation, fifth pick in the NBA draft, self-made player, self-made man, a wonderful story, and put a shadow over that life.

In Rudy's case, aside from the physical injuries, he, for 20 years, had a recurring dream in which he died.

BLITZER: Tomjanovich went through alcoholism and rehab. But also became a successful coach, winning two NBA championships with the Rockets and an Olympic gold medal.

Washington's basketball career faltered after that. He went through a divorce, but battled back to establish a charity that provides medicine and clinics to needy people in Africa.

He's wanted to get back into the NBA for years as a coach, but has run into a wall.

FEINSTEIN: There's no memo out there that says, "Do not hire this man," but I do think that when NBA teams look at his resume and they see all of these positives -- the college degree, they know he's bright, they know he was one of the first athletes to do serious weight training. They know he worked with the great Pete Newel at his big man's camp so he knows how to coach, there are these two invisible words that don't appear on the resume: Rudy Tomjanovich.

BLITZER: Kermit Washington and Rudy Tomjanovich didn't speak for years afterwards until Washington finally apologized.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: And joining me now is Kermit Washington, the man who threw that punch.

Kermit, thanks for joining us. Talk about that split second that so dramatically changed your life and Rudy Tomjanovich's life.

KERMIT WASHINGTON: Well, first, good morning. What happened that night -- it was back in L.A. -- is there was a rebound. Kareem, myself and Kevin Kunnert were back there. And Kevin Kunnert had got the rebound. And he threw the rebound down court.

I turned around to go down court and tried to push myself in front of Kevin. And as I was pushing myself in font of Kevin, I received an elbow to the head. And at first I thought it was a mistake by Kevin.

So I looked at him, I thought he was going to say he's sorry. But then I turned around, I got another elbow or a fist to the head. And I realized then it wasn't an accident. So a fight broke out.

And as the fight broke out, I saw Rudy Tomjanovich running toward me. And I didn't think that he had anything -- good intentions on his mind. But after meeting Rudy I know that he's telling the truth that he was just coming back to break the fight up.

But what you have to realize, back in the '70s, there were fights every single night. So 90 percent of the people that are running after you -- that are running at you ,are not running at you for your good health. They're out there to really get you.

So I made a mistake in judgment. And on Rudy's part, I've told Rudy many times I'm sorry about what happened.

But as I said, 90 percent of the guys in those days, they weren't running at you to break up a fight, they were running at you to probably try to hurt you.

BLITZER: Do you feel you paid this enormous price for that one split second mistake and you've effectively been blackballed from the NBA?

WASHINGTON: I wouldn't say blackballed, but it would be very difficult to hire me. Because if you look at it, a coach that hired me, they would be judged themselves. People would ask them the question, why are you hiring Kermit Washington? What kind of person are you?

So most coaches aren't that comfortable enough with themselves or secure enough to maybe take the chance of hiring a person like Kermit Washington, where most people, the majority of people, think of me negatively.

BLITZER: Well, a lot of people think of you positively right now because of what you've devoted your life to in recent years. Tell our viewers what you're doing right now. WASHINGTON: Well, first of all, and thanks for the book and John Feinstein for writing the book because it's brought Rudy and myself together again. But the way that I can benefit from the book is first of all, is tell everybody that I've hurt, that I'm sorry and thank everybody who had been helping me.

But once again, though, what I'm doing overseas in the Third World nations, we go over there with medical supplies, doctors and nurses, and we work very hard to help them overseas.

There's a book store that is donating most of the salary -- excuse me, most of the money that they make from the book to what we do over in Third World nations.

And if people buy the book at somanybooks.net, you can buy it online. And that way I benefit from that. And what it does, it helps buy medicine and pays for the doctors and nurses for us to go overseas to work. So I appreciate the book and I appreciate you having me, but just remember somanybooks.net. And it will benefit what we do over in the Third World nations.

BLITZER: Kermit Washington, good luck to you. I remember your days at American University here in Washington. And I wish you only the best.

WASHINGTON: Thank you very much for having me, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we invited Rudy Tomjanovich to join us, as well. Unfortunately his hectic, very busy schedule, made that impossible. Maybe on another occasion we'll speak to him. An amazing, amazing story.

And we have some news that's just coming in right now. The man best known for his role as Pee-Wee Herman may -- we repeat -- may be in trouble with the law once again.

CNN's Charles Feldman is going us now from Los Angeles. What's going on, Charles?

CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, on a day when we're all talking about terrorism alerts, leave it to Hollywood to come up with not one but two potential sex scandals.

One involving Paul Reubens, as you said, best known as Pee-Wee Herman. We're told that he is in negotiations, he and his attorney right now with the Los Angeles city attorney's office, and he could be charged with one misdemeanor count of having improper photographs involving minors. And if that happens, that would be a misdemeanor charge.

But you may all remember that about, oh, ten years ago or so, I think it was 1991, Mr. Reubens got into trouble in an adult movie theater for exposing himself after he was masturbating in the theater. And that led to a real eclipse of his career, which has recently been resuscitated.

But this may lead to some other problems here with him in Hollywood.

But Wolf, I mentioned a double scandal. The other one is much more serious, potentially. It involves another well known actor, an actor by the name of Jeffrey Jones, best known for his role as the principal in the "Ferris Bueller" movies.

And he was arrested and charged in a criminal complaint, much more serious than a misdemeanor charge. And he's accused of abusing a teenage boy by making a sexually explicit motion picture. And he is now out on bail.

But again, the charge involving Jeffrey Jones, potentially more serious, it is a felony count. The one involving Paul Reubens, if it happens, if there's an agreement between Mr. Reubens and the city's attorney's office, would be a misdemeanor count.

Wolf?

BLITZER: Charles Feldman, bringing us the latest scandals from Hollywood. Thanks very much, Charles.

Time's running out for your turn to weigh in on our web question of the day: "Was the army right to discharge nine gay linguists, despite the shortage of military specialists?" Log on to CNN.Com/Wolf. That's where you can vote. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now here's how you're weighing in on our web question of the day.

Earlier we asked, was Army the right to discharge nine gay linguists despite the shortage of military specialists? Look at this: 38 percent of you say yes, 62 percent of you say no.

You can find the exact tally. By the way, continue to vote on my website CNN.Com/Wolf. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Let's get to your e-mail. William writes this: "Bin Laden may be the greatest immediate threat, but if Saddam Hussein is allowed to obtain weapons of mass destruction, he will be our greatest threat. It will not be necessary for Iraq to have a direct delivery system when he can just use human beings to deliver weapons into our country."

David writes this: "Iraq is a distracting political sidebar; Osama bin Laden is the real deal and the American people know it. Has President Bush forgotten September 11?"

Mark write: "Any site that inspectors are denied access to should be destroyed by cruise missiles within one hour of denial. That should be hard-fast policy. Then Iraq will know anything hidden will be destroyed."

That's all the time we have today. Join me Sunday at noon eastern for "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday. Among my guests Sunday, the Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge.

Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington; "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

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