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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Coverage of and Analysis of NASA Press Conference

Aired February 03, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Columbia, the shuttle tragedy. Did the trouble start at liftoff? New images may offer new clues.

On the ground, debris scattered over 28,000 square miles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will tell you that we did locate a section of the cabin here in Nacogdoches County.

BLITZER: Complicating the search, deadly poisons among the pieces of debris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not touch any of this material or pick any of it up because we consider it hazardous or toxic.

BLITZER: Hailed as heroes, the shuttle astronauts are remembered in hometowns across this country and abroad.

Iraq, the evidence. As the U.S. prepares to tell the U.N. what it knows, a warning from the weapons inspectors.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think that it's a moment when the Iraqis ought to decide to be very actively cooperative on substance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's Monday, February 03, 2003. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

What was the fatal flaw that turned a seemingly routine space shuttle landing into a disaster? That's the question facing experts today as they continue the painful investigation into the last flight of the Shuttle Columbia.

CNN Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien is joining us with all the latest developments from the Johnson Space Center in Houston. Miles, tell us what we learned today.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, let's get right to it. We're going to learn something right now from the Shuttle Program Manager Ron Dittemore, just began his briefing. Let's listen in.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

BLITZER: Ron Dittemore answering questions now for almost an hour. We're going continue to monitor this briefing and get some additional analysis, but let's bring in CNN's Miles O'Brien. He's been covering this story, obviously, from the moment that it broke. Also two special guests, the former astronaut, Norm Thagard in Houston and the former NASA engineer, Randy Avera.

Thanks to all of you. Miles, first of all, a lot of the stuff is hard for many of us to understand. But what did you learn new from the briefing right now?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's interesting, Wolf, because I think today we have the sense and based on yesterday's briefing and based on some conversations I've had with some NASA engineers that there was a lot of focus on that wheel well and that things seemed to kind of emanate, the failure seemed to kind of emanate out of that wheel well, that perhaps maybe a tile near it got bumped and it might have caused the plasma to swirl around and get inside that wheel well where it would be unprotected, thus cutting through the lines and the hydraulics and then all the problems go from there.

But as Dittemore pointed out very clearly here, if you think about that, first of all, the temperature rise wasn't as great as you might expect over a five-minute period. Thirty degrees over five minutes, not as dramatic as you might think it would be in that situation when you're talking about 2,000 to 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit. But the other issue is that temperature rise on the outside, the fuselage, which seemed to go simultaneous. So what was it? Where -- was there multiple places? Was there another place that caused heat to get inside the wing itself and it emanated from that point toward the wheel well and toward the fuselage? I suspect both Randy and Norm have some good theories on that.

BLITZER: Well, let's bring in Randy right now. Randy, what did you learn today based on what this briefer had to say?

RANDY AVERA, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: Wolf, I was very focused on two things that Dittemore said. He indicated that here, two days after this breakup of Columbia that he didn't seem to know the details about the mass of whether it was ice or insulation and how that related to the apparent strike on the lower surface of the left wing.

What we're talking about is momentum, which equals mass times velocity. And I'm trying to understand how during the review of the in-flight problem report that would have been generated through the process of that -- as soon as NASA saw this on the video, and started looking to determine if it is a safety, a flight issue. Even though they were committed to going into orbit and have to do a re-entry, it still concerns anyway this late in -- since the launch and this early in the investigation that they don't seem to have that firsthand information.

And I don't think that it's an overreaction on the impounding of all data. That is very fundamental. We cannot determine in advance what's important and what is not important. The purpose of the impound is to preserve the evidence so that the investigation can move forward in an appropriate direction.

BLITZER: Norm, the -- a lot the focus on the temperature, this abrupt rise in the temperature in these critical moments before the explosion, did you learn something new in the timeline that he gave out just within the past hour?

DR. NORM THAGARD, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: All he said, Wolf, that differed from yesterday is he backed up a minute and they have evidence of rise and other sensors. So nothing has changed in effect. It's still clearly a thermal problem somewhere in the left wing. He's just saying that the source is, in his mind, probably or maybe not the wheel well because if you've got a blowtorch plasma at 2,000 degrees, you should be seeing more than 30, 40, 50 degree rises in sensors.

BLITZER: And it looks, Norm, like they're providing a great deal of information, but they're impound information. There seems to be a contradiction there, too. Are they holding back information from the public at this extremely early stage in the investigation?

THAGARD: Not with the intent of doing that. The purpose of impounding any information at this point is solely to preserve it, so that it's not tampered with, it's unspoiled and it can be analyzed by people in a controlled environment.

BLITZER: The whole notion, Miles O'Brien, that this investigation is only just beginning, and that usually the initial assumptions later on prove to be way wrong, is that likely in this particular case?

O'BRIEN: Perhaps so. And certainly history would bear that out, Wolf. But Ron Dittemore shared with us a big assumption that they're making right now, which is that the external tank might be the cause. They're working from that assumption and sort of working that problem from that assumption. And as he says, that is a drastic assumption. And Norm and Randy can bear us out in this, but in essence that is recognition that the design of that external tank is in some way flawed. And that way it is very drastic because that implies that the system has a fundamental design defect.

BLITZER: President Bush, as our viewers probably know, staying very closely on top of this situation. He was briefed earlier today by a NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe. Let's go to the White House right now and get a report from our John King.

John, tell us what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the National Institutes of Health, a tribute to Columbia's crew and its work.

BUSH: Two days ago, America was yet reminded again of the sacrifices made in the name of scientific discovery. The seven brave men and women from the Columbia will be remembered for their achievements, their heroism, and their sense of wonder. KING: Mr. Bush met earlier at the White House with NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe, receiving an update on the early phases of the investigation. The new Bush administration budget prepared before the Columbia tragedy complains about NASA management, saying there is no clear measurable relationship between investments in the space shuttle and improvements in the shuttle's operational life, flight safety, or facilities conditions.

The investigative arm of Congress also warned about job cutbacks and other problems in the shuttle program, but officials say there is no evidence tight budgets or management problems had any role in Saturday's tragedy.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It would be premature and unwise to make any judgments about that at this time.

KING: The new Bush budget proposes $15.5 billion for NASA, up from $15 billion this year. By comparison, Mr. Bush proposes spending $24 billion on the new Department of Homeland Security and $380 billion on the Pentagon.

Spending on the space shuttle program was $3.3 billion in fiscal 2002 and fell a bit to $3.2 billion this year. But for fiscal 2004, the president proposes a 24 percent increase, up to $3.9 billion. Most of that new money would be for work that extends the life of the aging shuttle fleet because tight NASA budgets have delayed work on a next generation orbiter.

Aides say Mr. Bush is committed to manned space missions but won't commit to seeking more money to replace Columbia until the investigation is complete.

FLEISCHER: Let's find out what the cause of the accident was before reaching conclusions about what the next course in space exploration should be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And the White House is not ruling out some special presidential commission to investigate the Columbia tragedy. But the early preference here clearly is to rely on the several investigations already underway. And Wolf, of course, the president and the First Lady leave the White House in the morning to head to Houston, Johnson Space Center, to take part in the memorial service for the Columbia crew.

BLITZER: John, that will just be a brief day trip. He'll just go there, participate and then come back to the White House?

KING: That is correct. He'll be back at the White House by late tomorrow afternoon. After visiting, he will participate in the memorial service, also expected to take some time in private and spend it with the families of the lost astronauts.

BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thanks, John, very much. That's all the time we have for our abbreviated edition of our program. Don't forget, we'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. We have a lot more to report tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 3, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Columbia, the shuttle tragedy. Did the trouble start at liftoff? New images may offer new clues.

On the ground, debris scattered over 28,000 square miles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will tell you that we did locate a section of the cabin here in Nacogdoches County.

BLITZER: Complicating the search, deadly poisons among the pieces of debris.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not touch any of this material or pick any of it up because we consider it hazardous or toxic.

BLITZER: Hailed as heroes, the shuttle astronauts are remembered in hometowns across this country and abroad.

Iraq, the evidence. As the U.S. prepares to tell the U.N. what it knows, a warning from the weapons inspectors.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think that it's a moment when the Iraqis ought to decide to be very actively cooperative on substance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: It's Monday, February 03, 2003. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

What was the fatal flaw that turned a seemingly routine space shuttle landing into a disaster? That's the question facing experts today as they continue the painful investigation into the last flight of the Shuttle Columbia.

CNN Space Correspondent Miles O'Brien is joining us with all the latest developments from the Johnson Space Center in Houston. Miles, tell us what we learned today.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, let's get right to it. We're going to learn something right now from the Shuttle Program Manager Ron Dittemore, just began his briefing. Let's listen in.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

BLITZER: Ron Dittemore answering questions now for almost an hour. We're going continue to monitor this briefing and get some additional analysis, but let's bring in CNN's Miles O'Brien. He's been covering this story, obviously, from the moment that it broke. Also two special guests, the former astronaut, Norm Thagard in Houston and the former NASA engineer, Randy Avera.

Thanks to all of you. Miles, first of all, a lot of the stuff is hard for many of us to understand. But what did you learn new from the briefing right now?

O'BRIEN: Well, it's interesting, Wolf, because I think today we have the sense and based on yesterday's briefing and based on some conversations I've had with some NASA engineers that there was a lot of focus on that wheel well and that things seemed to kind of emanate, the failure seemed to kind of emanate out of that wheel well, that perhaps maybe a tile near it got bumped and it might have caused the plasma to swirl around and get inside that wheel well where it would be unprotected, thus cutting through the lines and the hydraulics and then all the problems go from there.

But as Dittemore pointed out very clearly here, if you think about that, first of all, the temperature rise wasn't as great as you might expect over a five-minute period. Thirty degrees over five minutes, not as dramatic as you might think it would be in that situation when you're talking about 2,000 to 3,000 degrees Fahrenheit. But the other issue is that temperature rise on the outside, the fuselage, which seemed to go simultaneous. So what was it? Where -- was there multiple places? Was there another place that caused heat to get inside the wing itself and it emanated from that point toward the wheel well and toward the fuselage? I suspect both Randy and Norm have some good theories on that.

BLITZER: Well, let's bring in Randy right now. Randy, what did you learn today based on what this briefer had to say?

RANDY AVERA, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: Wolf, I was very focused on two things that Dittemore said. He indicated that here, two days after this breakup of Columbia that he didn't seem to know the details about the mass of whether it was ice or insulation and how that related to the apparent strike on the lower surface of the left wing.

What we're talking about is momentum, which equals mass times velocity. And I'm trying to understand how during the review of the in-flight problem report that would have been generated through the process of that -- as soon as NASA saw this on the video, and started looking to determine if it is a safety, a flight issue. Even though they were committed to going into orbit and have to do a re-entry, it still concerns anyway this late in -- since the launch and this early in the investigation that they don't seem to have that firsthand information.

And I don't think that it's an overreaction on the impounding of all data. That is very fundamental. We cannot determine in advance what's important and what is not important. The purpose of the impound is to preserve the evidence so that the investigation can move forward in an appropriate direction.

BLITZER: Norm, the -- a lot the focus on the temperature, this abrupt rise in the temperature in these critical moments before the explosion, did you learn something new in the timeline that he gave out just within the past hour?

DR. NORM THAGARD, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: All he said, Wolf, that differed from yesterday is he backed up a minute and they have evidence of rise and other sensors. So nothing has changed in effect. It's still clearly a thermal problem somewhere in the left wing. He's just saying that the source is, in his mind, probably or maybe not the wheel well because if you've got a blowtorch plasma at 2,000 degrees, you should be seeing more than 30, 40, 50 degree rises in sensors.

BLITZER: And it looks, Norm, like they're providing a great deal of information, but they're impound information. There seems to be a contradiction there, too. Are they holding back information from the public at this extremely early stage in the investigation?

THAGARD: Not with the intent of doing that. The purpose of impounding any information at this point is solely to preserve it, so that it's not tampered with, it's unspoiled and it can be analyzed by people in a controlled environment.

BLITZER: The whole notion, Miles O'Brien, that this investigation is only just beginning, and that usually the initial assumptions later on prove to be way wrong, is that likely in this particular case?

O'BRIEN: Perhaps so. And certainly history would bear that out, Wolf. But Ron Dittemore shared with us a big assumption that they're making right now, which is that the external tank might be the cause. They're working from that assumption and sort of working that problem from that assumption. And as he says, that is a drastic assumption. And Norm and Randy can bear us out in this, but in essence that is recognition that the design of that external tank is in some way flawed. And that way it is very drastic because that implies that the system has a fundamental design defect.

BLITZER: President Bush, as our viewers probably know, staying very closely on top of this situation. He was briefed earlier today by a NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe. Let's go to the White House right now and get a report from our John King.

John, tell us what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the National Institutes of Health, a tribute to Columbia's crew and its work.

BUSH: Two days ago, America was yet reminded again of the sacrifices made in the name of scientific discovery. The seven brave men and women from the Columbia will be remembered for their achievements, their heroism, and their sense of wonder. KING: Mr. Bush met earlier at the White House with NASA administrator, Sean O'Keefe, receiving an update on the early phases of the investigation. The new Bush administration budget prepared before the Columbia tragedy complains about NASA management, saying there is no clear measurable relationship between investments in the space shuttle and improvements in the shuttle's operational life, flight safety, or facilities conditions.

The investigative arm of Congress also warned about job cutbacks and other problems in the shuttle program, but officials say there is no evidence tight budgets or management problems had any role in Saturday's tragedy.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It would be premature and unwise to make any judgments about that at this time.

KING: The new Bush budget proposes $15.5 billion for NASA, up from $15 billion this year. By comparison, Mr. Bush proposes spending $24 billion on the new Department of Homeland Security and $380 billion on the Pentagon.

Spending on the space shuttle program was $3.3 billion in fiscal 2002 and fell a bit to $3.2 billion this year. But for fiscal 2004, the president proposes a 24 percent increase, up to $3.9 billion. Most of that new money would be for work that extends the life of the aging shuttle fleet because tight NASA budgets have delayed work on a next generation orbiter.

Aides say Mr. Bush is committed to manned space missions but won't commit to seeking more money to replace Columbia until the investigation is complete.

FLEISCHER: Let's find out what the cause of the accident was before reaching conclusions about what the next course in space exploration should be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And the White House is not ruling out some special presidential commission to investigate the Columbia tragedy. But the early preference here clearly is to rely on the several investigations already underway. And Wolf, of course, the president and the First Lady leave the White House in the morning to head to Houston, Johnson Space Center, to take part in the memorial service for the Columbia crew.

BLITZER: John, that will just be a brief day trip. He'll just go there, participate and then come back to the White House?

KING: That is correct. He'll be back at the White House by late tomorrow afternoon. After visiting, he will participate in the memorial service, also expected to take some time in private and spend it with the families of the lost astronauts.

BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thanks, John, very much. That's all the time we have for our abbreviated edition of our program. Don't forget, we'll be back tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. We have a lot more to report tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE" is up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com