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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Samples of Recently Discovered Suspected Chemical Weapons Materials Undergoing Further Testing

Aired April 07, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with what may turn out to be the smoking gun which the United States has been looking for in Iraq. Samples of suspected chemical weapons materials are undergoing further testing.
CNN's Ryan Chilcote, is embedded with the U.S. Amry 101st Airborne Division at a complex in Hindiya that's in central Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soldiers from the 101st Airborne have been inspecting two sites for the presents of possible chemical agents east of Karbala, in central Iraq. The first site, an agricultural complex where they found a large number of weapon weapons, a large weapons cache of conventional weapons. Out back a large number of drums with some kind of chemicals in them.

Well, today, they tested some of those chemicals inside those drums that were hidden some in some bunkers behind one of the buildings, and the tests came back positive for nerve agent and a blister agent. The 101st does not consider those tests to be conclusive. They're not sure exactly what they have. And they've invited in another group of experts, a short while ago we spoke with the -- with General Freakly from the 101st Airborne.

Let's hear what he had to say about what they think they found at the site.

GEN. BENJAMIN FREAKLY, U.S. ARMY: This could be either some type of pesticide because this wasn't an agricultural compound, and the literature talked about dealing with mosquitoes and other type of airborne vermin. And was right along the Euphrates River, very close to the Euphrates River. But on the other hand, it could be a chemical agent, not weaponized.

CHILCOTE: They've been test at a military training complex in the same area. Sunday morning a group of U.S. soldiers that were guarding that area said they felt sick. Among other things that that the training complex had found a large number chemical protective suits. That's why the 101st came in and did a series of tests testing for nerve agents. So far they don't believe there is anything more than insecticide in that area. The 101st saying that those soldiers probably felt sick from heat exhaustion because they had been on a long road march that day. All of the soldiers now say they're feeling fine.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN with the 101st Airborne near Karbala, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's turn now to Terence Taylor, a former chief U.N. weapons inspector, conducted missions in Iraq during the mid 1990s. He's now director of the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Terry Taylor is joining us now by phone from Washington.

Mr. Taylor, you've been hearing all of these reports coming in from the 101st Airborne Division. A lot of preliminary evidence out there, but no smoking gun yet. What will it take to convince the world that the United States has indeed found banned chemical weapons capabilities inside Iraq?

TERENCE TAYLOR, FMR. U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think it will take a find of substantial amount of chemical, maybe in drums. That's bulk chemical agent which is plainly chemical warfare agent, and that may require laboratory testing beyond what the local capabilities are of the groups in the field. But more still, I think that there would need to be a find of chemical munitions, that is 122 millimeter rockets, artillery ammunition and that kind of thing, filled with chemical agent, either nerve agent or mustard agent. So I think we haven't come across anything substantial yet that is conclusive. As far as I can tell.

BLITZER: Now, what the general says, the Brigadier General Freakly, when he says that these drums, this potential suspected chemical agent, whatever the nerve agent might be, if it is a nerve agent has not yet been weaponized, specifically what does he mean by that.

TAYLOR: Well, I think what he would mean, and it is hard -- I don't want to second guess the general and misspeak for him, but I would guess that he's saying that here may be some bulk chemicals stored in drums, which is of a grade that could be used for chemical weapons. Maybe. It is not filled into a munition, which is really perhaps what he means by being weaponized.

But I think what needs to be done now is a determination if this chemical -- type of chemical that could be poured into a warhead of a missile or into an artillery ammunition and used straightaway as a weapon or is it some other chemical compound. Difficulty here is the insecticides that the reports are referring to are also organophosphorous compounds. This is the family which the lethal nerve agents belong, because essentially an insecticide -- a type of insecticide is one that uses the same approach as used in lethal chemical agents, but lower concentration and capability, of course.

BLITZER: Terence Taylor, knows a lot about this. We'll be checking back with you periodically and will be having more on this developing story later this hour.

Terance Taylor, thanks very much. Meanwhile, U.S. Marines today used the headquarters of Iraq's Atomic Energy Commission, that's near Baghdad. Items found included unidentified substances and jars and protective suits and masks.

CNN's Martin Savidge reports the items will be examined to see whether they are chemical or biological weapons. More suspicions there. At the same time, U.S. tanks and armored vehicles have stormed into central Baghdad.

Let's check today's battle lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In and around Baghdad, a force puts a crumbling regime under more and more pressure.

U.S. lead forces sweep into the heart of the capital, encountering light resistance, and take over Saddam Hussein's main presidential palace.

CNN's Walter Rogers reports three battalions of the U.S. Army 2nd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division moved into the city occupying three locates and they say they won't be pulling out.

Walter Rogers reports mass desertions in Baghdad, Iraqi troops abandoning their positions and fleeing. On Baghdad's Southeastern outskirts, U.S. Marines destroy a bridge over a canal near the Tigris River after the bridge was damaged in battle.

At least two U.S. Marines are killed during the battle for that bridge. Their armored personnel carrier hit by Iraqi artillery or mortars.

Another hit, an Iraqi missile slams into the tactical operations center for the 2nd Brigade in Baghdad.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're also told there are 15 U.S. Soldiers wounded, some quite seriously. And we're also told there were four dead in that attack, two of the dead are said to be journalists.

BLITZER: A series of explosions hit Baghdad throughout day and into the evening. Arabic language news network says an apartment block is hit, killing at least two people and wounding many more. U.S. Central Command has no comment.

In the south, Basra, the scene of some of the heaviest fighting of the war so far. And the British say it yielded one major score for the allies. General Ali Hassan al-Majid known as, Chemical Ali, for allegedly ordering poison gas attacks on Kurdish villages 15 years ago. The British say his body has been found in the rubble of a home targeted a few days ago.

In the north, between Mosul and Kirkuk, CNN's Jane Araff reports U.S.-led troops are advancing, trying to dislodge Iraqi forces and capturing a strategic ridge. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And as we mentioned, U.S. Forces today seized Saddam Hussein's main, main presidential palace in Baghdad. We're now going to give you a tour of this ornate building perched on the bank of the Tigris River and another captured facility.

Two key captures in and around Baghdad. Two fascinating tours with revealing discoveries. In Baghdad, a captured palace. Saddam Hussein is said to have lived here off and on. Once the shooting stops, U.S. Troops move inside. Past a foyer with a huge chandelier into an opulent dine dining room. Elaborate drawing rooms with gold- plated chairs, tables and mirrors. Gold fixtures in the bathrooms. Some of the windows that aren't broken are beautiful stained glass. Troops pause for a moment, reflect on their capture.

But outside Baghdad, Saddam Hussein's Republican Guards lived differently. At Baghdad International Airport, a captured bunker -- a unit of Saddam's Republican Guards -- once occupied this place but appears to have left in a hurry.

There are traces of luxury but also remnants of a bleak existence, including bottles of baby formula, lots of them, and a question: Could this have been all that was left to eat for Saddam's most elite troops?

With U.S. Troops making themselves comfortable in one of his palaces, where is Saddam Hussein? Iraqi TV has shown another videotape of what appears to be the Iraqi president meeting with top military commanders, including his son Qusay. Iraqi TV says the meeting was held today. But, as usual, there is no confirmation of when the tape was shot.

U.S. officials do tell CNN's national security correspondent, David Ensor, the voice on a tape broadcast last Friday is most likely that of Saddam Hussein's. U.S. Intelligence conducted tests of the recording over the weekend.

Saddam Hussein still has plenty of loyalists. Crowds gathered in the capital to show their support. Led by police and paramilitary units, they waved flags and portraits of their leader and, in some cases, fired guns into the air.

Some Iraqi volunteers have taken up positions behind sandbag barricades in Baghdad. Others, shown here on Abu Dhabi TV, have been in training to defend the capital with rocket-propelled grenades and other light weapons.

With Baghdad now a battleground and U.S. troops seemingly able to move at will in the city, let's get the latest from CNN's senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson. He's tracking all the late-breaking developments from Ruwaished. That's in Jordan -- right on the border with Iraq.

Nic, tell us the latest. What's going on now in Baghdad? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, that's a surprising thing for residents of the city of Baghdad -- the freedom of movement that the coalition forces have had.

The question that residents are asking now that they've seen the coalition forces, American tanks, and APCs move from the airport into a presidential palace downtown, move around some of the government areas, is: How could they come so quickly and so easily into the center of the city?

They're asking the question: Why didn't Iraq's Republican guard stop them? And certainly what some residents were able to see today were the Republican guard jumping into the Tigris River right by that presidential palace and swimming away from it when the U.S. Forces were inside there. Perhaps that's an indication certainly witnesses able to see some Republican guards running away.

On the streets, there are some Republican Guard fighters. There are some volunteer forces, Baath Party volunteers, and Fedayeen fighters. We're told by our sources in the city that there is about 50 percent uniform militia, about 50 percent ununiformed at this time. We have also heard from Iraq's minister of information today, saying that the incursions into the city by coalition forces have been repelled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: They pushed few of their armored carriers and subtanks with their soldiers. We besieged them and we killed most of them, and I think we will finish them soon. My feelings, as usual, we will stop them all. Those invaders -- their tombs will be here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: But even as Mohammed al-Sahaf was speaking there half a mile away, across the river, there were explosions going on in the presidential palace, gunfire, and even -- I understand -- that some of the people that work for the minister of information -- members, if you will, of the civil service -- they're doubting the minister of information. And this is a growing picture we have from Baghdad. Residents of the city now doubting what the minister of information and other government officials are telling them because now they can see it with their own eyes, and they're seeing that their own army, in part, is running away -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Breathtaking developments unfolding this hour indeed throughout the coming hours as well, I am sure, Nic Robertson -- with all the late-breaking developments, what's happening inside Baghdad. We'll be checking back with you, Nic, of course.

And here is your chance to weigh in on the war on Iraq. Our web question of the day: Who should run Iraq in the short-term after the war -- The United States or the United Nations? we'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column. I'm writing one every day from here in the Persian Gulf -- cnn.com/wolf.

Our top story: Has the smoking gun been found? What may be chemical weapons material found by the U.S. 101st Airborne -- is it the real thing? We'll have the latest. Plus, inside an alleged Iraqi torture chamber. The tour from a man who says he was held captive there. And a master of propaganda, Iraq's information minister. Does he believe what he's saying? All that.

But first, these images from the front lines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're looking at videotape pictures we showed you earlier of U.S. Troops in action as they deliberately blew up a bridge over a canal near Baghdad earlier today. The bridge had been damaged, was considered unsafe so the U.S. Marines went in and blew it up. But they could have a new one on the ground, a temporary one at almost any moment, in case they need it.

In case you're just joining us, we're following an important developing story. U.S. forces are testing at a site east of Karbala for possible chemical weapons materials. Thirteen drums found buried at an agricultural site contain substances that test indicate could be nerve or blister agents.

Officials caution they also simply could be pesticides. The Pentagon says this has potential to be a smoking gun, but a lot more testing has to be done. We'll have more on this story coming up this hour.

As coalition forces take control of more and more of Iraq, some gruesome finds are being made -- among them, alleged torture chambers. One man, who says he's a victim, revisited the site where he says he was tortured and recounted his experience to Al-Jazeera TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They put me on a chair -- here. And they will put it this way and they'll say speak, speak. And they would whip me, and these are the marks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The man blamed for inflicting tremendous suffering on both the Iraqi and Kuwaiti people reportedly is dead. British forces say the body of Ali Hassan al-Majid has been found in the rubble of his Basra home, which coalition forces bombed on Saturday. Al Majid was a cousin of Saddam Hussein's and was accused of ordering the 1988 chemical attack on Iraqi Kurds, which killed thousands and earned him a name Chemical Ali.

CNN's Richard Blystone has reaction from those who say death was too good for him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD BLYSTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mahmoud Qabazard is sorry if Ali Hassan al-Majid is dead. Better to see him in court as a first step.

MAHMOUD QABAZARD, AHMED'S FATHER: And then given him to me and I know what do with him. Put him and sit on his chest and get a knife and cut from his body and give him to eat. This is my idea to do with Hasan Al Majid or Saddam Hussein.

BLYSTONE: He says Al Majid personally tortured his son Ahmed, a leader of the Kuwaiti resistance.

M. QABAZARD: He burned my heart. My heart burned.

BLYSTONE: But Saddam Hussein's cousin has a special place in the hearts of all Kuwaitis. None was untouched by the seven months of occupation under his heel. Months of looting, destruction, torture and terror by his agents.

Killing fields like this from resistance fighters working with the allies to small boys who painted anti-Iraqi graffiti, the penalty was death.

When I would go to the market, says Zaineb Qabazard, I used to see in the trash little Kuwaiti boys with their heads chopped off.

The city streets, where Al Majid's agents prowled by night, snatching people from their homes. Kuwait says more than a thousand were murdered, thousands tortured, more than 600 missing. Many, they believe, still prisoners in Iraq.

Ahmed Qabazard, whose image lives next to his father's heart, was a resistance cell leader from Kuwaiti Special Forces. One day he was taken and 11 days later delivered to his home drenched in blood and shot dead in front of his family.

M. QABAZARD: His face, I could see it now. But his -- all his nails out. All his body was, like, of course, not with a cigarette, but I know with a -- there is a machine, you know, like a drill (ph) on his body.

BLYSTONE: Six other resistance members, surrounded here, fought back to the death. The house has been left as it was in their honor.

(on camera): Ali Hassan Al Majid in Kuwait, gone but not forgotten. Richard Blystone, CNN, Kuwait City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So how important will close air cover be to allied troops as they battle in the streets of Baghdad? We'll go live to a forward air base just ahead. And an important meeting, a strategy between the two men who pushed hardest for the campaign against Saddam Hussein. We'll get a live update from Northern Ireland. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In case you're just tuning in, our top story this hour is the discovery of suspected chemical weapons materials at an agricultural complex in central Iraq. Troops from the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne division went to the site on Friday, finding a number of large drums buried in bunkers. Initial tests were inconclusive.

But General Benjamin Freakly of the 101st says that -- says today a more sophisticated test indicated the presence of nerve and blister agents. He says that type of test, that is required, sometimes shows false-positives and further testing will be done to determine whether the materials are indeed nonweaponized chemical agents or perhaps simply pesticides. General Freakly says it is hard to believe U.N. inspectors would have found the facility hidden as deeply as it was near the Euphrates River. We'll have much more on this developing story coming up in a few minutes.

For the latest, though, on the air war, CNN's Gary Tuchman is joining us now live from an air base not far from Iraq. What's happening there tonight, Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Air Force is continuing its 24-hour air coverage over Baghdad. There will always be multiple warplanes, fighter planes, attack planes over Iraq's capital.

And with us right now is one of the pilots participating in it, Lieutenant Colonel Rob Givens. He is an F-16 pilot flying out of this base. He just came back from a mission. He has another one tomorrow morning.

The way they're explaining to us, Colonel, is that there are always at least two planes over Baghdad. There are traffic cops, dispatchers. They call in F-16s and A-10s and F-14s when they need help. Is that the way it's working?

LT. COL. ROB GIVENS, F-16 PILOT: That's correct.

We're maintaining an air presence over the top of the Iraqi capital, as you said, 24 hours a day. And it will be a variety of fighter aircraft and support aircraft that are, you know, reconordering (ph) targets, working with our partners on the ground and making sure we target anything that needs to get targeted.

TUCHMAN: You were telling me a couple of days ago when this all began, you were on a mission where you actually dropped munitions when you were called in. You were orbiting Baghdad. You were called in. Tell me what happened. GIVENS: Well, yes, we've -- we've attacked the capital before. We were given coordinates and were able to press in and drop on the targets that were given to you, mainly Republican Guard targets, plus regime headquarter targets, that kind of thing.

TUCHMAN: There are so many planes -- coalition planes flying over Baghdad right now. Are you concerned about the possibility of a collision between coalition planes?

GIVENS: Well, the thing to remember is that we have a lot of procedures in effect to make sure that there are no close calls for anything like that. Air traffic control procedures, no different than really flying at home. And pilots here in warfare always have to remember that they have peace time safety to worry about and war time safety and in cases like this with conflicting with other airplanes, you rely on the things that you know about from flying in the peacetime United States, altitude differences and working with controlling agencies.

TUCHMAN: Final question for you. I know that artillery was being shot at you first few days of the war. Is it still being shot at you?

GIVENS: Yes, the defenses have really been beaten back. There's no doubt about that. But occasionally you will still see the odd antiaircraft artillery piece fire or the shoulder launch missile. But the Iraqi defenses are poorly coordinated and very light, currently, still a threat and you need to make sure that you pay attention and do not become complacent. But definitely we're more than a match for anything that they've got going right now.

TUCHMAN: Colonel, thank you for talking with us.

GIVENS: Thank you.

TUCHMAN: Appreciate it.

We want to tell you that as of now, close to 30,000 Sorties have been flown since this air war began. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much. Gary Tuchman. He's at an air base not far from Iraq, reporting live for all of us.

A possible chemical weapons material find in Iraq. Find out the latest on what may, repeat, may be a smoking gun.

Also, ring around Baghdad. U.S. troops make themselves comfortable in Saddam Hussein's landmarks.

And minister of disinformation. A closer look at Iraq's head propagandist. He takes stretching the truth to a whole new level.

First, these images from the battlefield.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures of Baghdad. This is the night the first night U.S. troops will, some of them at least, will be sleeping in the Iraqi capital. They've gone in, they've taken certain strategic symbolically important locations including one presidential palace. There may be some U.S. Troops actually sleeping in that palace tonight. We're watching all of these late breaking developments, dramatic developments happening in the Iraqi capital.

Welcome back to CNN's up to the minute nonstop live coverage of this war in Iraq. And in just a moment, more on our top story, a possible chemical weapons material find in Iraq. But, first, for the late-breaking developments, we go back to CNN's Fredricka Whitfield in the CNN news room in Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: President Bush is meeting once again with his closest ally, the British prime minister, Tony Blair. This latest war time summit is also looking ahead to the post war period.

Our senior White House correspondent John King is covering this summit, joining us live from Belfast in Northern Ireland -- John.

JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Wolf, those conversations beginning with an informal dinner here in Belfast tonight. The White House released a photograph of President Bush and Prime Minister Blair taking a walk outside a castle on the outskirts of Belfast just before that dinner. Yes they will be discussing the ongoing military developments, including the dramatic developments this day in and around Baghdad. But White House officials say most of the time in Belfast and the talks tonight and tomorrow will be spent on postwar Iraq.

Now there have been numerous reports suggesting major differences between Washington and London over the role the United Nations should play in a post war Iraq. But as Mr. Bush arrived here in Belfast today, and took some time to shake some hands at the airport, aides say they believe this rift is being exaggerated. They believe there is general agreement with London on having the United Nations have a very important role, in humanitarian efforts, an important in role in reconstruction efforts. What the White House in adamant about is that the United Nation not take the role politically. That the United Nations not administer the post war government inside Iraq.

Key words of support today from the U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, he says much as the White House has said in the past that the Iraq situation is not analogous to East Timor or Kosovo, where there was no government infrastructure in place and the United Nations had to take over almost all responsibilities. We're looking for a communique from Prime Minister Blair and President Bush tomorrow that lays out a broad U.N. role, but stops short of giving the United Nations a lead political role. The two leaders will commit to going to the United Nations Security Council and seeking a resolution supporting their post war political efforts inside Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King, covering this summit in Northern Ireland. John, thanks very much.

More on our top story; U.S. Forces testing for what may be chemical weapons materials found buried near Karbala, that's just south of Baghdad. Ryan Chilcote is with the Army's 101st Airborne Division which made the discovery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHILCOTE: The site that is under investigation, there are two sites. But the most suspicious site was discovered about three days ago. It is what is being described as an agricultural complex or agricultural compound. And soldiers from the 101st Airborne found inside of it a large number of weapons, a very large weapons cache. Outside of it, they found a number of drums, chemical drums.

They also found a lot of pesticides in a storage facility area just next to it. Some representatives from the 63rd Chemical Company came and checked it out and they did some tests, they came back inconclusive. Today they brought in another -- a higher level if you will, of testing, called the Fuchs vehicle. And with us we have General Freakly who can talk about what they discovered with those drums.

FREAKLY: Well, the -- as you mentioned, Ryan the division started this a couple of days ago, took the cache and in subsequent security operations found two bunkers below the ground with camouflage netting or mats over the top of it. One bunker tested to be inconclusive, negative. The other bunker which had over 10 25 gallon drums and three 55 gallon drums with the Fuchs tested positive for nerve agent and for blister agent.

This could be either some type of pesticides, because this was an agricultural compound and the literature inside the compound talked about dealing with mosquitoes and other type of airborne vermin, and was right along the Euphrates river, very close to the Euphrates river. But, on the other hand, it could be a chemical agent, not weaponized, a liquid agent that is in drums. So our Fuchs' are very sensitive. They're great equipment. And we'll follow up with higher level testing in the next day or so to confirm what we have here.

CHILCOTE: If you could explain some of the terms to people. You said that it tested positive for two different kinds of agents. We're dealing with two different batches of something.

FREAKLY: That's what the tests would lead us to believe. One, a blister type agent and the other a nerve agent. Again, they could be a chemical that we haven't run across in our studies, in our work. The other side of it, it could be -- the Fuchs could be operating just as they should and telling us we have got these type of agents.

We don't have any soldiers in the division, they're not in any kind of harm whatsoever. There's town people near this. There are dogs around this. Soldiers have been in and out of this testing. There is no great threat to our soldiers. And again, it is not weaponized but it is a liquid agent that poses some concerns to us that we want to investigate further. CHILCOTE: About the testing, as I know there was really actually a battery of tests done, beginning three days ago. If you could explain to people what kind of tests were done, and what they mean and why, even after today's tests, you need do more tests.

FREAKLY: Well, they began with the infantry company that actually secured the area, which involves a bridge complex. Their chemical sergeant very well trained, used a chemical paper we have with us called an M-8 paper, like your chem lab litmus paper. And that paper at that site initially showed that there was a possible agent there. We also have a miniature card called a 256 Kit which is along the lines of a mobile chem lab, very small. And that initially showed positive as well.

But our other chemical agents were inconclusive and that's why we called for the Fuchs vehicle to come forward. It's the next echelon up. It's the chemical company's capabilities to come in and add to our chemical menu, if you will, all the things that we can do, a menu of testing. And we added more to that to get more precise information on what we might have there.

CHILCOTE: But still you could get a -- even with the Fuchs vehicle, you still could get a false positive?

FREAKLY: Well, any type of pesticide, industrial chemicals might lead you down a path that you would think would be one type of agent but in turn, might just be some industrial chemicals.

CHILCOTE: And, Wolf, yes, I was at this site. We were actually there when they first started investigating it. And it is an agricultural site. There's a warehouse just adjacent to at least one of those bunkers where they have a large amount of these insecticides inside with labels on them. I think we actually have some of that video, I don't know if we have it right now available to show people. But it is clear that they did have insecticide on at the scene. So that's not completely clear yet how you know what this is.

Now, you also mentioned that this isn't -- and I think this is really important to underscore. You said this isn't weaponized. Explain the difference.

FREAKLY: Well, it's in your conventional 25 or 55-gallon drums. Not -- they are not military drums. They have no special marking on them whatsoever. And weaponized, we would see it in probably an artillery projectile or in an artillery missile or perhaps in an aircraft bomb or something that we could -- the enemy would spray troops with.

And so it's a liquid chemical, but it hasn't been put in a delivery means or anything that could be disbursed against our soldiers.

CHILCOTE: Now, Wolf, if we could back up a second, there actually was a second site that was also, as the military says, exploited. In other words, explored or investigated. And there were a battery of tests done there as well that results there, however, at least up until yesterday evening, inconclusive and may still be inconclusive.

But initially there were some tests there that came up positive for nerve agent. Now, you were talking about -- but the division's thinking, if I understand you correctly, was that even if it comes up positive for nerve agent, again, it can be it can an insecticide, what we saw at that first site.

FREAKLY: Well at the first site you saw yesterday, that was a training compound, outdoor obstacle course, indoor rifle range, outdoor rifle range, a plethora of enemy weapon systems, ambulance that had been stripped on the inside, probably to move forces around this town. And an NBC, quite extensive inventory of chemical/biological suits, brand new masks, rubber boots...

CHILCOTE: They were training how to use them?

FREAKLY: They were training on how to use them. Other literature supporting Palestine was at this camp. And when we initially tested there, again with the 256 Kit, the mobile small chem lab, that gave us a positive reading, the initial, for a nerve agent.

But we did secondary tests with two more 256 Kits. We normally use them in pairs to confirm our finings. They came up negative. Then last night we brought in three Fuchses you were present when we did that...

CHILCOTE: Three separate vehicles.

FREAKLY: Three separate vehicles. And those tests all gave us very low-level readings of what probably is a pesticide. And so we don't think at that camp -- it was either a -- something to train with, because it was associated with the chemical garments or it's just a low pesticide that was in the area to hold down problems in the camp.

CHILCOTE: Wolf, maybe I can open this back up to you, if you have any questions. I think the moral so far of what I've seen over the last couple of days is that you can't test enough and that these tests aren't always consistent. We've had several tests that were positive, several that were negative at both sites. And it's really difficult to understand why one test comes out positive and another negative.

And it's really clear that additional testing and what, I think, the 101st Airborne is planning on doing is bringing in yet another higher level of testing with more expertise as really necessary to really understand, at least in the case of this site that we're reporting on today, whether this is a pesticide or whether this is a chemical agent, not weaponized, that simply is something that they haven't seen before -- Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN's Ryan Chilcote embedded with the 101st Airborne Division speaking with General Benjamin Freakly. Thanks to Ryan Chilcote and the General for all that important, important information.

And just ahead, an expert will weigh in on what today's discovery in Iraq may really mean. Could the material have been used to make chemical weapons?

And he's become virtually the only voice and face left for Saddam Hussein's regime to put forward. But who is the information minister? And who goes out and rants against the coalition? That's him. We'll take a look when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage. As a potentially huge story, a chemical weapons find, perhaps. At least the U.S. 101st Airborne Division is investigating further tests, no definitive answer yet.

But joining me from Washington, Amy Smithson, she's director of the Chemical and Biological Weapons Non-Proliferations Project at the Henry L. Smithson Center and an expert in the field.

Amy, thanks so much for joining us. You've been watching all of these preliminary reports. The question I have, if is wasn't something sinister, why have these chemical suits, these protective suits, the gas masks if it's just agricultural pesticides or whatever?

AMY SMITHSON, CHEM., BIO WEAPONS EXPERT: Well, I would look with suspicion on the presence of gas masks there. When facilities are working with volatile or hazardous chemicals, sometimes they'll have a shower and other precautions nearby, but gas masks and full military chemical suits is taking it a step further past that, that's for sure.

And the fact that this site is buried. They've got containers or barrels located in regular storage facilities at this location, but then they've got this buried site. That adds a certain level of why are they doing that?

BLITZER: We don't know what the end result of the final and more sophisticated lab work is going to show. But at this, I guess, relatively preliminary stage, if in fact it is nerve agents, whether it's mustard gas or whatever, to have hidden it in this agricultural, supposedly agricultural complex near Karbala, what does that say to you, someone who studied this issue for so many years?

SMITHSON: Well there's a whole pattern of activity over the last decade-plus where the Iraqis have done a considerable number of various activities to try to hide their chemical weapons capabilities and to preserve their capabilities. To locate them at a site that looks innocuous is certainly consistent with that pattern of activity. If they've got a mustard gas there, this is something that Iraq is known to have produced and used in the Iran-Iraq war and the same can be said with sarin.

BLITZER: Would you normally if it is just something -- if something, you know, less benign, some sort of pesticide or whatever, some normal chemicals, would you normally bury that kind of stuff underground in bunkers?

SMITHSON: No, that's not a regular activity in terms of how farmers would normally behave. That's what got my attention about this, a facility where they've got things buried underground in bunkers certainly raises my eyebrows.

And as we wait for these additional tests, the person in the white laboratory coat that's going to come out and say we've run this through a gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer, you can look to those tests with a great deal of confidence because the physical properties of the agents are very well understood and documented. And they'll have certain spikes that are characteristic of either sarin nerve agent or pesticide X Y or Z.

BLITZER: So they'll know for sure. Amy Smithson, as usual thanks very much for your expertise. We'll continue to watch and wait to see what these final tests show.

In the meantime, Saddam Hussein may or may not be around. But his information is taking the lead. Coming out every day and blasting the U.S.-led coalition. Who is this man? Find out just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf toured the streets of Baghdad today flatly denying that American forces are even in Baghdad. And even as he spoke, U.S. troops were only blocks away right outside his Information Ministry.

So is he an optimist, is he clueless or just blindly loyal to Saddam Hussein? CNN's Bruce Burkhardt takes a look at a man who's become the voice of Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL-SAHAF: We will slaughter them all. Those invaders, their tombs will be here in Iraq.

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the public face of Iraqi defiance and credibility, or lack thereof. He is Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, minister of information. And with Saddam Hussein who knows where these days, he is virtually the last visible vestige of a government under siege.

Al-Sahaf is spending his nights sleeping on the floor of the Ministry of Information, his days denying U.S. forces are already on his doorstep.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): Nobody came here. Those American losers, I think, the repeated and frequent lies are bringing them down very rapidly.

BURKHARDT: Or is it the other way around? Just a few days ago when the U.S. Marines reached the Tigris River...

AL-SAHAF: It's not true. BURKHARDT: Then this as the U.S. Army moved north.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): They are not near Baghdad. Don't believe them.

BURKHARDT: By the weekend with the U.S. Army now at the Baghdad airport, al-Sahaf was dangling an empty promise of a guided tour.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): Maybe in few hours we can take you to the airport after we deal with the remnants of these troops.

BURKHARDT: His daily denials have become a yardstick of American progress in the war.

AL-SAHAF: Baghdad is secure is safe.

BURKHARDT: Al-Sahaf began his government career as head of Iraqi TV. Then served as ambassador to India, Sweden, Italy and eventually became the foreign minister.

CNN's Eason Jordan has met al-Sahaf several times before CNN was banned from Iraq once the war began.

EASON JORDAN, CNN CHIEF NEWS EXECUTIVE: He is a tough, strident Saddam Hussein loyalist.

BURKHARDT: And defiant to the end. His description of the U.S. Army presence inside Baghdad.

AL-SAHAF: They push few of their armored carriers and some tanks with their soldiers. We besieged them and I think we will finish them soon.

BURKHARDT: Or again, might it be the other way around?

Bruce Burkhardt, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Bush administration insists once the war is over, the future of Iraq will be decided by Iraqis themselves. But a firm role by the U.S. government is already taking shape. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. forces sit on Saddam Hussein's palace doorstep in Baghdad, even as the controversy surrounding a post-war Iraq begins to take shape.

Ahmed Chalabi, the long-time head of the opposition Iraqi National Congress suddenly turned up in southern Iraq this weekend with more than 600 so-called Iraqi Freedom Fighters, exiles and opposition troops ferried in by the Pentagon. Men who will form the core of a post-war Iraqi military even before the old one is defeated. Many people believe the U.S. is positioning Chalabi, who has limited support inside Iraq, to become an interim post-war leader. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld denied it.

(on camera): Do you endorse Ahmed Chalabi for any role?

RUMSFELD: Of course not. I just said that the Iraqi people are going to make these decisions. Clearly the United States is not going to impose a government on Iraq.

STARR (voice-over): An Iraqi interim authority is being established by the Pentagon. Officials insist it is not a post-war government, but a group of approved Iraqis that will run non- controversial government agencies such as the Agricultural Ministry. It will also work on new laws and an electoral process. Too soon to say who will exactly participate.

RUMSFELD: The Iraqi people are going to sort out what their Iraqi government ought to look like. And that is very clear.

STARR: At the core is the Pentagon's Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance Program run by Retired Army Lieutenant General Jay Garner, now in Kuwait, expected to move to Iraq within days with dozens of U.S. personnel who will fan out across Iraqi government agencies and take charge. U.S. personnel already earmarked to run finance, oil and intelligence.

(on camera): The Pentagon says it will run post-war Iraq. But Congress may withhold money saying it's a job for the State Department. And the United Nations says its money and influence are vital.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember, we were asking you in the short-term who should run Iraq after the war? Fifty-six percent of you say the United States, 44 percent say the U.N. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Stay with CNN throughout the night for up to the minute coverage. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn. A reminder, I'm here every day at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll see you back tonight and tomorrow. For the latest, we hand it over to Lou Dobbs, he's standing by in New York.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Materials Undergoing Further Testing>


Aired April 7, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with what may turn out to be the smoking gun which the United States has been looking for in Iraq. Samples of suspected chemical weapons materials are undergoing further testing.
CNN's Ryan Chilcote, is embedded with the U.S. Amry 101st Airborne Division at a complex in Hindiya that's in central Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soldiers from the 101st Airborne have been inspecting two sites for the presents of possible chemical agents east of Karbala, in central Iraq. The first site, an agricultural complex where they found a large number of weapon weapons, a large weapons cache of conventional weapons. Out back a large number of drums with some kind of chemicals in them.

Well, today, they tested some of those chemicals inside those drums that were hidden some in some bunkers behind one of the buildings, and the tests came back positive for nerve agent and a blister agent. The 101st does not consider those tests to be conclusive. They're not sure exactly what they have. And they've invited in another group of experts, a short while ago we spoke with the -- with General Freakly from the 101st Airborne.

Let's hear what he had to say about what they think they found at the site.

GEN. BENJAMIN FREAKLY, U.S. ARMY: This could be either some type of pesticide because this wasn't an agricultural compound, and the literature talked about dealing with mosquitoes and other type of airborne vermin. And was right along the Euphrates River, very close to the Euphrates River. But on the other hand, it could be a chemical agent, not weaponized.

CHILCOTE: They've been test at a military training complex in the same area. Sunday morning a group of U.S. soldiers that were guarding that area said they felt sick. Among other things that that the training complex had found a large number chemical protective suits. That's why the 101st came in and did a series of tests testing for nerve agents. So far they don't believe there is anything more than insecticide in that area. The 101st saying that those soldiers probably felt sick from heat exhaustion because they had been on a long road march that day. All of the soldiers now say they're feeling fine.

Ryan Chilcote, CNN with the 101st Airborne near Karbala, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's turn now to Terence Taylor, a former chief U.N. weapons inspector, conducted missions in Iraq during the mid 1990s. He's now director of the International Institute for Strategic Studies. Terry Taylor is joining us now by phone from Washington.

Mr. Taylor, you've been hearing all of these reports coming in from the 101st Airborne Division. A lot of preliminary evidence out there, but no smoking gun yet. What will it take to convince the world that the United States has indeed found banned chemical weapons capabilities inside Iraq?

TERENCE TAYLOR, FMR. U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I think it will take a find of substantial amount of chemical, maybe in drums. That's bulk chemical agent which is plainly chemical warfare agent, and that may require laboratory testing beyond what the local capabilities are of the groups in the field. But more still, I think that there would need to be a find of chemical munitions, that is 122 millimeter rockets, artillery ammunition and that kind of thing, filled with chemical agent, either nerve agent or mustard agent. So I think we haven't come across anything substantial yet that is conclusive. As far as I can tell.

BLITZER: Now, what the general says, the Brigadier General Freakly, when he says that these drums, this potential suspected chemical agent, whatever the nerve agent might be, if it is a nerve agent has not yet been weaponized, specifically what does he mean by that.

TAYLOR: Well, I think what he would mean, and it is hard -- I don't want to second guess the general and misspeak for him, but I would guess that he's saying that here may be some bulk chemicals stored in drums, which is of a grade that could be used for chemical weapons. Maybe. It is not filled into a munition, which is really perhaps what he means by being weaponized.

But I think what needs to be done now is a determination if this chemical -- type of chemical that could be poured into a warhead of a missile or into an artillery ammunition and used straightaway as a weapon or is it some other chemical compound. Difficulty here is the insecticides that the reports are referring to are also organophosphorous compounds. This is the family which the lethal nerve agents belong, because essentially an insecticide -- a type of insecticide is one that uses the same approach as used in lethal chemical agents, but lower concentration and capability, of course.

BLITZER: Terence Taylor, knows a lot about this. We'll be checking back with you periodically and will be having more on this developing story later this hour.

Terance Taylor, thanks very much. Meanwhile, U.S. Marines today used the headquarters of Iraq's Atomic Energy Commission, that's near Baghdad. Items found included unidentified substances and jars and protective suits and masks.

CNN's Martin Savidge reports the items will be examined to see whether they are chemical or biological weapons. More suspicions there. At the same time, U.S. tanks and armored vehicles have stormed into central Baghdad.

Let's check today's battle lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In and around Baghdad, a force puts a crumbling regime under more and more pressure.

U.S. lead forces sweep into the heart of the capital, encountering light resistance, and take over Saddam Hussein's main presidential palace.

CNN's Walter Rogers reports three battalions of the U.S. Army 2nd Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division moved into the city occupying three locates and they say they won't be pulling out.

Walter Rogers reports mass desertions in Baghdad, Iraqi troops abandoning their positions and fleeing. On Baghdad's Southeastern outskirts, U.S. Marines destroy a bridge over a canal near the Tigris River after the bridge was damaged in battle.

At least two U.S. Marines are killed during the battle for that bridge. Their armored personnel carrier hit by Iraqi artillery or mortars.

Another hit, an Iraqi missile slams into the tactical operations center for the 2nd Brigade in Baghdad.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're also told there are 15 U.S. Soldiers wounded, some quite seriously. And we're also told there were four dead in that attack, two of the dead are said to be journalists.

BLITZER: A series of explosions hit Baghdad throughout day and into the evening. Arabic language news network says an apartment block is hit, killing at least two people and wounding many more. U.S. Central Command has no comment.

In the south, Basra, the scene of some of the heaviest fighting of the war so far. And the British say it yielded one major score for the allies. General Ali Hassan al-Majid known as, Chemical Ali, for allegedly ordering poison gas attacks on Kurdish villages 15 years ago. The British say his body has been found in the rubble of a home targeted a few days ago.

In the north, between Mosul and Kirkuk, CNN's Jane Araff reports U.S.-led troops are advancing, trying to dislodge Iraqi forces and capturing a strategic ridge. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And as we mentioned, U.S. Forces today seized Saddam Hussein's main, main presidential palace in Baghdad. We're now going to give you a tour of this ornate building perched on the bank of the Tigris River and another captured facility.

Two key captures in and around Baghdad. Two fascinating tours with revealing discoveries. In Baghdad, a captured palace. Saddam Hussein is said to have lived here off and on. Once the shooting stops, U.S. Troops move inside. Past a foyer with a huge chandelier into an opulent dine dining room. Elaborate drawing rooms with gold- plated chairs, tables and mirrors. Gold fixtures in the bathrooms. Some of the windows that aren't broken are beautiful stained glass. Troops pause for a moment, reflect on their capture.

But outside Baghdad, Saddam Hussein's Republican Guards lived differently. At Baghdad International Airport, a captured bunker -- a unit of Saddam's Republican Guards -- once occupied this place but appears to have left in a hurry.

There are traces of luxury but also remnants of a bleak existence, including bottles of baby formula, lots of them, and a question: Could this have been all that was left to eat for Saddam's most elite troops?

With U.S. Troops making themselves comfortable in one of his palaces, where is Saddam Hussein? Iraqi TV has shown another videotape of what appears to be the Iraqi president meeting with top military commanders, including his son Qusay. Iraqi TV says the meeting was held today. But, as usual, there is no confirmation of when the tape was shot.

U.S. officials do tell CNN's national security correspondent, David Ensor, the voice on a tape broadcast last Friday is most likely that of Saddam Hussein's. U.S. Intelligence conducted tests of the recording over the weekend.

Saddam Hussein still has plenty of loyalists. Crowds gathered in the capital to show their support. Led by police and paramilitary units, they waved flags and portraits of their leader and, in some cases, fired guns into the air.

Some Iraqi volunteers have taken up positions behind sandbag barricades in Baghdad. Others, shown here on Abu Dhabi TV, have been in training to defend the capital with rocket-propelled grenades and other light weapons.

With Baghdad now a battleground and U.S. troops seemingly able to move at will in the city, let's get the latest from CNN's senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson. He's tracking all the late-breaking developments from Ruwaished. That's in Jordan -- right on the border with Iraq.

Nic, tell us the latest. What's going on now in Baghdad? NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, that's a surprising thing for residents of the city of Baghdad -- the freedom of movement that the coalition forces have had.

The question that residents are asking now that they've seen the coalition forces, American tanks, and APCs move from the airport into a presidential palace downtown, move around some of the government areas, is: How could they come so quickly and so easily into the center of the city?

They're asking the question: Why didn't Iraq's Republican guard stop them? And certainly what some residents were able to see today were the Republican guard jumping into the Tigris River right by that presidential palace and swimming away from it when the U.S. Forces were inside there. Perhaps that's an indication certainly witnesses able to see some Republican guards running away.

On the streets, there are some Republican Guard fighters. There are some volunteer forces, Baath Party volunteers, and Fedayeen fighters. We're told by our sources in the city that there is about 50 percent uniform militia, about 50 percent ununiformed at this time. We have also heard from Iraq's minister of information today, saying that the incursions into the city by coalition forces have been repelled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMMED SAEED AL-SAHAF, IRAQI INFORMATION MINISTER: They pushed few of their armored carriers and subtanks with their soldiers. We besieged them and we killed most of them, and I think we will finish them soon. My feelings, as usual, we will stop them all. Those invaders -- their tombs will be here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: But even as Mohammed al-Sahaf was speaking there half a mile away, across the river, there were explosions going on in the presidential palace, gunfire, and even -- I understand -- that some of the people that work for the minister of information -- members, if you will, of the civil service -- they're doubting the minister of information. And this is a growing picture we have from Baghdad. Residents of the city now doubting what the minister of information and other government officials are telling them because now they can see it with their own eyes, and they're seeing that their own army, in part, is running away -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Breathtaking developments unfolding this hour indeed throughout the coming hours as well, I am sure, Nic Robertson -- with all the late-breaking developments, what's happening inside Baghdad. We'll be checking back with you, Nic, of course.

And here is your chance to weigh in on the war on Iraq. Our web question of the day: Who should run Iraq in the short-term after the war -- The United States or the United Nations? we'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column. I'm writing one every day from here in the Persian Gulf -- cnn.com/wolf.

Our top story: Has the smoking gun been found? What may be chemical weapons material found by the U.S. 101st Airborne -- is it the real thing? We'll have the latest. Plus, inside an alleged Iraqi torture chamber. The tour from a man who says he was held captive there. And a master of propaganda, Iraq's information minister. Does he believe what he's saying? All that.

But first, these images from the front lines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're looking at videotape pictures we showed you earlier of U.S. Troops in action as they deliberately blew up a bridge over a canal near Baghdad earlier today. The bridge had been damaged, was considered unsafe so the U.S. Marines went in and blew it up. But they could have a new one on the ground, a temporary one at almost any moment, in case they need it.

In case you're just joining us, we're following an important developing story. U.S. forces are testing at a site east of Karbala for possible chemical weapons materials. Thirteen drums found buried at an agricultural site contain substances that test indicate could be nerve or blister agents.

Officials caution they also simply could be pesticides. The Pentagon says this has potential to be a smoking gun, but a lot more testing has to be done. We'll have more on this story coming up this hour.

As coalition forces take control of more and more of Iraq, some gruesome finds are being made -- among them, alleged torture chambers. One man, who says he's a victim, revisited the site where he says he was tortured and recounted his experience to Al-Jazeera TV.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They put me on a chair -- here. And they will put it this way and they'll say speak, speak. And they would whip me, and these are the marks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The man blamed for inflicting tremendous suffering on both the Iraqi and Kuwaiti people reportedly is dead. British forces say the body of Ali Hassan al-Majid has been found in the rubble of his Basra home, which coalition forces bombed on Saturday. Al Majid was a cousin of Saddam Hussein's and was accused of ordering the 1988 chemical attack on Iraqi Kurds, which killed thousands and earned him a name Chemical Ali.

CNN's Richard Blystone has reaction from those who say death was too good for him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD BLYSTONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mahmoud Qabazard is sorry if Ali Hassan al-Majid is dead. Better to see him in court as a first step.

MAHMOUD QABAZARD, AHMED'S FATHER: And then given him to me and I know what do with him. Put him and sit on his chest and get a knife and cut from his body and give him to eat. This is my idea to do with Hasan Al Majid or Saddam Hussein.

BLYSTONE: He says Al Majid personally tortured his son Ahmed, a leader of the Kuwaiti resistance.

M. QABAZARD: He burned my heart. My heart burned.

BLYSTONE: But Saddam Hussein's cousin has a special place in the hearts of all Kuwaitis. None was untouched by the seven months of occupation under his heel. Months of looting, destruction, torture and terror by his agents.

Killing fields like this from resistance fighters working with the allies to small boys who painted anti-Iraqi graffiti, the penalty was death.

When I would go to the market, says Zaineb Qabazard, I used to see in the trash little Kuwaiti boys with their heads chopped off.

The city streets, where Al Majid's agents prowled by night, snatching people from their homes. Kuwait says more than a thousand were murdered, thousands tortured, more than 600 missing. Many, they believe, still prisoners in Iraq.

Ahmed Qabazard, whose image lives next to his father's heart, was a resistance cell leader from Kuwaiti Special Forces. One day he was taken and 11 days later delivered to his home drenched in blood and shot dead in front of his family.

M. QABAZARD: His face, I could see it now. But his -- all his nails out. All his body was, like, of course, not with a cigarette, but I know with a -- there is a machine, you know, like a drill (ph) on his body.

BLYSTONE: Six other resistance members, surrounded here, fought back to the death. The house has been left as it was in their honor.

(on camera): Ali Hassan Al Majid in Kuwait, gone but not forgotten. Richard Blystone, CNN, Kuwait City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So how important will close air cover be to allied troops as they battle in the streets of Baghdad? We'll go live to a forward air base just ahead. And an important meeting, a strategy between the two men who pushed hardest for the campaign against Saddam Hussein. We'll get a live update from Northern Ireland. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

In case you're just tuning in, our top story this hour is the discovery of suspected chemical weapons materials at an agricultural complex in central Iraq. Troops from the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne division went to the site on Friday, finding a number of large drums buried in bunkers. Initial tests were inconclusive.

But General Benjamin Freakly of the 101st says that -- says today a more sophisticated test indicated the presence of nerve and blister agents. He says that type of test, that is required, sometimes shows false-positives and further testing will be done to determine whether the materials are indeed nonweaponized chemical agents or perhaps simply pesticides. General Freakly says it is hard to believe U.N. inspectors would have found the facility hidden as deeply as it was near the Euphrates River. We'll have much more on this developing story coming up in a few minutes.

For the latest, though, on the air war, CNN's Gary Tuchman is joining us now live from an air base not far from Iraq. What's happening there tonight, Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the Air Force is continuing its 24-hour air coverage over Baghdad. There will always be multiple warplanes, fighter planes, attack planes over Iraq's capital.

And with us right now is one of the pilots participating in it, Lieutenant Colonel Rob Givens. He is an F-16 pilot flying out of this base. He just came back from a mission. He has another one tomorrow morning.

The way they're explaining to us, Colonel, is that there are always at least two planes over Baghdad. There are traffic cops, dispatchers. They call in F-16s and A-10s and F-14s when they need help. Is that the way it's working?

LT. COL. ROB GIVENS, F-16 PILOT: That's correct.

We're maintaining an air presence over the top of the Iraqi capital, as you said, 24 hours a day. And it will be a variety of fighter aircraft and support aircraft that are, you know, reconordering (ph) targets, working with our partners on the ground and making sure we target anything that needs to get targeted.

TUCHMAN: You were telling me a couple of days ago when this all began, you were on a mission where you actually dropped munitions when you were called in. You were orbiting Baghdad. You were called in. Tell me what happened. GIVENS: Well, yes, we've -- we've attacked the capital before. We were given coordinates and were able to press in and drop on the targets that were given to you, mainly Republican Guard targets, plus regime headquarter targets, that kind of thing.

TUCHMAN: There are so many planes -- coalition planes flying over Baghdad right now. Are you concerned about the possibility of a collision between coalition planes?

GIVENS: Well, the thing to remember is that we have a lot of procedures in effect to make sure that there are no close calls for anything like that. Air traffic control procedures, no different than really flying at home. And pilots here in warfare always have to remember that they have peace time safety to worry about and war time safety and in cases like this with conflicting with other airplanes, you rely on the things that you know about from flying in the peacetime United States, altitude differences and working with controlling agencies.

TUCHMAN: Final question for you. I know that artillery was being shot at you first few days of the war. Is it still being shot at you?

GIVENS: Yes, the defenses have really been beaten back. There's no doubt about that. But occasionally you will still see the odd antiaircraft artillery piece fire or the shoulder launch missile. But the Iraqi defenses are poorly coordinated and very light, currently, still a threat and you need to make sure that you pay attention and do not become complacent. But definitely we're more than a match for anything that they've got going right now.

TUCHMAN: Colonel, thank you for talking with us.

GIVENS: Thank you.

TUCHMAN: Appreciate it.

We want to tell you that as of now, close to 30,000 Sorties have been flown since this air war began. Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much. Gary Tuchman. He's at an air base not far from Iraq, reporting live for all of us.

A possible chemical weapons material find in Iraq. Find out the latest on what may, repeat, may be a smoking gun.

Also, ring around Baghdad. U.S. troops make themselves comfortable in Saddam Hussein's landmarks.

And minister of disinformation. A closer look at Iraq's head propagandist. He takes stretching the truth to a whole new level.

First, these images from the battlefield.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: You're looking at live pictures of Baghdad. This is the night the first night U.S. troops will, some of them at least, will be sleeping in the Iraqi capital. They've gone in, they've taken certain strategic symbolically important locations including one presidential palace. There may be some U.S. Troops actually sleeping in that palace tonight. We're watching all of these late breaking developments, dramatic developments happening in the Iraqi capital.

Welcome back to CNN's up to the minute nonstop live coverage of this war in Iraq. And in just a moment, more on our top story, a possible chemical weapons material find in Iraq. But, first, for the late-breaking developments, we go back to CNN's Fredricka Whitfield in the CNN news room in Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: President Bush is meeting once again with his closest ally, the British prime minister, Tony Blair. This latest war time summit is also looking ahead to the post war period.

Our senior White House correspondent John King is covering this summit, joining us live from Belfast in Northern Ireland -- John.

JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Wolf, those conversations beginning with an informal dinner here in Belfast tonight. The White House released a photograph of President Bush and Prime Minister Blair taking a walk outside a castle on the outskirts of Belfast just before that dinner. Yes they will be discussing the ongoing military developments, including the dramatic developments this day in and around Baghdad. But White House officials say most of the time in Belfast and the talks tonight and tomorrow will be spent on postwar Iraq.

Now there have been numerous reports suggesting major differences between Washington and London over the role the United Nations should play in a post war Iraq. But as Mr. Bush arrived here in Belfast today, and took some time to shake some hands at the airport, aides say they believe this rift is being exaggerated. They believe there is general agreement with London on having the United Nations have a very important role, in humanitarian efforts, an important in role in reconstruction efforts. What the White House in adamant about is that the United Nation not take the role politically. That the United Nations not administer the post war government inside Iraq.

Key words of support today from the U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, he says much as the White House has said in the past that the Iraq situation is not analogous to East Timor or Kosovo, where there was no government infrastructure in place and the United Nations had to take over almost all responsibilities. We're looking for a communique from Prime Minister Blair and President Bush tomorrow that lays out a broad U.N. role, but stops short of giving the United Nations a lead political role. The two leaders will commit to going to the United Nations Security Council and seeking a resolution supporting their post war political efforts inside Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: John King, covering this summit in Northern Ireland. John, thanks very much.

More on our top story; U.S. Forces testing for what may be chemical weapons materials found buried near Karbala, that's just south of Baghdad. Ryan Chilcote is with the Army's 101st Airborne Division which made the discovery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHILCOTE: The site that is under investigation, there are two sites. But the most suspicious site was discovered about three days ago. It is what is being described as an agricultural complex or agricultural compound. And soldiers from the 101st Airborne found inside of it a large number of weapons, a very large weapons cache. Outside of it, they found a number of drums, chemical drums.

They also found a lot of pesticides in a storage facility area just next to it. Some representatives from the 63rd Chemical Company came and checked it out and they did some tests, they came back inconclusive. Today they brought in another -- a higher level if you will, of testing, called the Fuchs vehicle. And with us we have General Freakly who can talk about what they discovered with those drums.

FREAKLY: Well, the -- as you mentioned, Ryan the division started this a couple of days ago, took the cache and in subsequent security operations found two bunkers below the ground with camouflage netting or mats over the top of it. One bunker tested to be inconclusive, negative. The other bunker which had over 10 25 gallon drums and three 55 gallon drums with the Fuchs tested positive for nerve agent and for blister agent.

This could be either some type of pesticides, because this was an agricultural compound and the literature inside the compound talked about dealing with mosquitoes and other type of airborne vermin, and was right along the Euphrates river, very close to the Euphrates river. But, on the other hand, it could be a chemical agent, not weaponized, a liquid agent that is in drums. So our Fuchs' are very sensitive. They're great equipment. And we'll follow up with higher level testing in the next day or so to confirm what we have here.

CHILCOTE: If you could explain some of the terms to people. You said that it tested positive for two different kinds of agents. We're dealing with two different batches of something.

FREAKLY: That's what the tests would lead us to believe. One, a blister type agent and the other a nerve agent. Again, they could be a chemical that we haven't run across in our studies, in our work. The other side of it, it could be -- the Fuchs could be operating just as they should and telling us we have got these type of agents.

We don't have any soldiers in the division, they're not in any kind of harm whatsoever. There's town people near this. There are dogs around this. Soldiers have been in and out of this testing. There is no great threat to our soldiers. And again, it is not weaponized but it is a liquid agent that poses some concerns to us that we want to investigate further. CHILCOTE: About the testing, as I know there was really actually a battery of tests done, beginning three days ago. If you could explain to people what kind of tests were done, and what they mean and why, even after today's tests, you need do more tests.

FREAKLY: Well, they began with the infantry company that actually secured the area, which involves a bridge complex. Their chemical sergeant very well trained, used a chemical paper we have with us called an M-8 paper, like your chem lab litmus paper. And that paper at that site initially showed that there was a possible agent there. We also have a miniature card called a 256 Kit which is along the lines of a mobile chem lab, very small. And that initially showed positive as well.

But our other chemical agents were inconclusive and that's why we called for the Fuchs vehicle to come forward. It's the next echelon up. It's the chemical company's capabilities to come in and add to our chemical menu, if you will, all the things that we can do, a menu of testing. And we added more to that to get more precise information on what we might have there.

CHILCOTE: But still you could get a -- even with the Fuchs vehicle, you still could get a false positive?

FREAKLY: Well, any type of pesticide, industrial chemicals might lead you down a path that you would think would be one type of agent but in turn, might just be some industrial chemicals.

CHILCOTE: And, Wolf, yes, I was at this site. We were actually there when they first started investigating it. And it is an agricultural site. There's a warehouse just adjacent to at least one of those bunkers where they have a large amount of these insecticides inside with labels on them. I think we actually have some of that video, I don't know if we have it right now available to show people. But it is clear that they did have insecticide on at the scene. So that's not completely clear yet how you know what this is.

Now, you also mentioned that this isn't -- and I think this is really important to underscore. You said this isn't weaponized. Explain the difference.

FREAKLY: Well, it's in your conventional 25 or 55-gallon drums. Not -- they are not military drums. They have no special marking on them whatsoever. And weaponized, we would see it in probably an artillery projectile or in an artillery missile or perhaps in an aircraft bomb or something that we could -- the enemy would spray troops with.

And so it's a liquid chemical, but it hasn't been put in a delivery means or anything that could be disbursed against our soldiers.

CHILCOTE: Now, Wolf, if we could back up a second, there actually was a second site that was also, as the military says, exploited. In other words, explored or investigated. And there were a battery of tests done there as well that results there, however, at least up until yesterday evening, inconclusive and may still be inconclusive.

But initially there were some tests there that came up positive for nerve agent. Now, you were talking about -- but the division's thinking, if I understand you correctly, was that even if it comes up positive for nerve agent, again, it can be it can an insecticide, what we saw at that first site.

FREAKLY: Well at the first site you saw yesterday, that was a training compound, outdoor obstacle course, indoor rifle range, outdoor rifle range, a plethora of enemy weapon systems, ambulance that had been stripped on the inside, probably to move forces around this town. And an NBC, quite extensive inventory of chemical/biological suits, brand new masks, rubber boots...

CHILCOTE: They were training how to use them?

FREAKLY: They were training on how to use them. Other literature supporting Palestine was at this camp. And when we initially tested there, again with the 256 Kit, the mobile small chem lab, that gave us a positive reading, the initial, for a nerve agent.

But we did secondary tests with two more 256 Kits. We normally use them in pairs to confirm our finings. They came up negative. Then last night we brought in three Fuchses you were present when we did that...

CHILCOTE: Three separate vehicles.

FREAKLY: Three separate vehicles. And those tests all gave us very low-level readings of what probably is a pesticide. And so we don't think at that camp -- it was either a -- something to train with, because it was associated with the chemical garments or it's just a low pesticide that was in the area to hold down problems in the camp.

CHILCOTE: Wolf, maybe I can open this back up to you, if you have any questions. I think the moral so far of what I've seen over the last couple of days is that you can't test enough and that these tests aren't always consistent. We've had several tests that were positive, several that were negative at both sites. And it's really difficult to understand why one test comes out positive and another negative.

And it's really clear that additional testing and what, I think, the 101st Airborne is planning on doing is bringing in yet another higher level of testing with more expertise as really necessary to really understand, at least in the case of this site that we're reporting on today, whether this is a pesticide or whether this is a chemical agent, not weaponized, that simply is something that they haven't seen before -- Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN's Ryan Chilcote embedded with the 101st Airborne Division speaking with General Benjamin Freakly. Thanks to Ryan Chilcote and the General for all that important, important information.

And just ahead, an expert will weigh in on what today's discovery in Iraq may really mean. Could the material have been used to make chemical weapons?

And he's become virtually the only voice and face left for Saddam Hussein's regime to put forward. But who is the information minister? And who goes out and rants against the coalition? That's him. We'll take a look when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to our continuing coverage. As a potentially huge story, a chemical weapons find, perhaps. At least the U.S. 101st Airborne Division is investigating further tests, no definitive answer yet.

But joining me from Washington, Amy Smithson, she's director of the Chemical and Biological Weapons Non-Proliferations Project at the Henry L. Smithson Center and an expert in the field.

Amy, thanks so much for joining us. You've been watching all of these preliminary reports. The question I have, if is wasn't something sinister, why have these chemical suits, these protective suits, the gas masks if it's just agricultural pesticides or whatever?

AMY SMITHSON, CHEM., BIO WEAPONS EXPERT: Well, I would look with suspicion on the presence of gas masks there. When facilities are working with volatile or hazardous chemicals, sometimes they'll have a shower and other precautions nearby, but gas masks and full military chemical suits is taking it a step further past that, that's for sure.

And the fact that this site is buried. They've got containers or barrels located in regular storage facilities at this location, but then they've got this buried site. That adds a certain level of why are they doing that?

BLITZER: We don't know what the end result of the final and more sophisticated lab work is going to show. But at this, I guess, relatively preliminary stage, if in fact it is nerve agents, whether it's mustard gas or whatever, to have hidden it in this agricultural, supposedly agricultural complex near Karbala, what does that say to you, someone who studied this issue for so many years?

SMITHSON: Well there's a whole pattern of activity over the last decade-plus where the Iraqis have done a considerable number of various activities to try to hide their chemical weapons capabilities and to preserve their capabilities. To locate them at a site that looks innocuous is certainly consistent with that pattern of activity. If they've got a mustard gas there, this is something that Iraq is known to have produced and used in the Iran-Iraq war and the same can be said with sarin.

BLITZER: Would you normally if it is just something -- if something, you know, less benign, some sort of pesticide or whatever, some normal chemicals, would you normally bury that kind of stuff underground in bunkers?

SMITHSON: No, that's not a regular activity in terms of how farmers would normally behave. That's what got my attention about this, a facility where they've got things buried underground in bunkers certainly raises my eyebrows.

And as we wait for these additional tests, the person in the white laboratory coat that's going to come out and say we've run this through a gas chromatograph-mass spectrometer, you can look to those tests with a great deal of confidence because the physical properties of the agents are very well understood and documented. And they'll have certain spikes that are characteristic of either sarin nerve agent or pesticide X Y or Z.

BLITZER: So they'll know for sure. Amy Smithson, as usual thanks very much for your expertise. We'll continue to watch and wait to see what these final tests show.

In the meantime, Saddam Hussein may or may not be around. But his information is taking the lead. Coming out every day and blasting the U.S.-led coalition. Who is this man? Find out just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf toured the streets of Baghdad today flatly denying that American forces are even in Baghdad. And even as he spoke, U.S. troops were only blocks away right outside his Information Ministry.

So is he an optimist, is he clueless or just blindly loyal to Saddam Hussein? CNN's Bruce Burkhardt takes a look at a man who's become the voice of Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL-SAHAF: We will slaughter them all. Those invaders, their tombs will be here in Iraq.

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the public face of Iraqi defiance and credibility, or lack thereof. He is Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, minister of information. And with Saddam Hussein who knows where these days, he is virtually the last visible vestige of a government under siege.

Al-Sahaf is spending his nights sleeping on the floor of the Ministry of Information, his days denying U.S. forces are already on his doorstep.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): Nobody came here. Those American losers, I think, the repeated and frequent lies are bringing them down very rapidly.

BURKHARDT: Or is it the other way around? Just a few days ago when the U.S. Marines reached the Tigris River...

AL-SAHAF: It's not true. BURKHARDT: Then this as the U.S. Army moved north.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): They are not near Baghdad. Don't believe them.

BURKHARDT: By the weekend with the U.S. Army now at the Baghdad airport, al-Sahaf was dangling an empty promise of a guided tour.

AL-SAHAF (through translator): Maybe in few hours we can take you to the airport after we deal with the remnants of these troops.

BURKHARDT: His daily denials have become a yardstick of American progress in the war.

AL-SAHAF: Baghdad is secure is safe.

BURKHARDT: Al-Sahaf began his government career as head of Iraqi TV. Then served as ambassador to India, Sweden, Italy and eventually became the foreign minister.

CNN's Eason Jordan has met al-Sahaf several times before CNN was banned from Iraq once the war began.

EASON JORDAN, CNN CHIEF NEWS EXECUTIVE: He is a tough, strident Saddam Hussein loyalist.

BURKHARDT: And defiant to the end. His description of the U.S. Army presence inside Baghdad.

AL-SAHAF: They push few of their armored carriers and some tanks with their soldiers. We besieged them and I think we will finish them soon.

BURKHARDT: Or again, might it be the other way around?

Bruce Burkhardt, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Bush administration insists once the war is over, the future of Iraq will be decided by Iraqis themselves. But a firm role by the U.S. government is already taking shape. Our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. forces sit on Saddam Hussein's palace doorstep in Baghdad, even as the controversy surrounding a post-war Iraq begins to take shape.

Ahmed Chalabi, the long-time head of the opposition Iraqi National Congress suddenly turned up in southern Iraq this weekend with more than 600 so-called Iraqi Freedom Fighters, exiles and opposition troops ferried in by the Pentagon. Men who will form the core of a post-war Iraqi military even before the old one is defeated. Many people believe the U.S. is positioning Chalabi, who has limited support inside Iraq, to become an interim post-war leader. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld denied it.

(on camera): Do you endorse Ahmed Chalabi for any role?

RUMSFELD: Of course not. I just said that the Iraqi people are going to make these decisions. Clearly the United States is not going to impose a government on Iraq.

STARR (voice-over): An Iraqi interim authority is being established by the Pentagon. Officials insist it is not a post-war government, but a group of approved Iraqis that will run non- controversial government agencies such as the Agricultural Ministry. It will also work on new laws and an electoral process. Too soon to say who will exactly participate.

RUMSFELD: The Iraqi people are going to sort out what their Iraqi government ought to look like. And that is very clear.

STARR: At the core is the Pentagon's Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance Program run by Retired Army Lieutenant General Jay Garner, now in Kuwait, expected to move to Iraq within days with dozens of U.S. personnel who will fan out across Iraqi government agencies and take charge. U.S. personnel already earmarked to run finance, oil and intelligence.

(on camera): The Pentagon says it will run post-war Iraq. But Congress may withhold money saying it's a job for the State Department. And the United Nations says its money and influence are vital.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember, we were asking you in the short-term who should run Iraq after the war? Fifty-six percent of you say the United States, 44 percent say the U.N. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

Stay with CNN throughout the night for up to the minute coverage. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn. A reminder, I'm here every day at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll see you back tonight and tomorrow. For the latest, we hand it over to Lou Dobbs, he's standing by in New York.

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Materials Undergoing Further Testing>