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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
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Aired April 09, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): History made in Baghdad. Tonight, Saddam Hussein's downfall. The Iraqi regime goes into hiding as its citizens come out to celebrate.
No warm recep (ph) here. U.S. troops get a shock as they take Baghdad.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is Baghdad University and this is warfare on this campus at this moment.
BLITZER: Taking what they want. Crowds get chaotic.
Bad military move? Was this error in judgment?
And happening right now, new reports of Saddam's survival. All this on day 21 of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City. With correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A power vacuum in Baghdad as U.S. troops work to restore order. The big question tonight is this, who will succeed Saddam Hussein?
Hello from Kuwait City. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. Despite all appearances, the United States says the war in Iraq is not over. But a short while ago Iraq's United Nation's ambassador said, and I'm quoting now, "the game is over."
Here's the latest. U.S. forces are still engaged in deadly combat throughout the country. Our CNN cameras captured this firefight at the University of Baghdad.
And right now there has yet to be a ground fight for control of Saddam Hussein's ancestral hometown of Tikrit. The U.S. says that city is being reinforced by troops loyal to the Iraqi regime.
Also happening right now there are new reports from an Iraqi opposition group which placed Saddam Hussein supposedly northeast of Baghdad. This despite the Pentagon repeating the fact that it doesn't know his status.
And the casualties keep coming. Arab TV shows overcrowded hospitals in Iraq. An international relief agency reports many injured civilians can't get help because ambulances can't get to them.
We have correspondents covering this story throughout the hour. CNN's Rym Brahimi who recently spent time in Baghdad. CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, he's at the Pentagon. And CNN's Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth, he is covering a dramatic declaration from the Iraqi ambassador.
All of that coming up. First, to Heidi Collins in the CNN newsroom.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: Before we do anything else I want to go to Capitol Hill in Washington, that's where the Defense Secretary Donald Rums is speaking right now.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
BLITZER: ... speaking briefly with reporters. We're going to continue to monitor all of his statements, of course. Critical statements three weeks into this war, not declaring victory yet. But clearly a very, very happy United States secretary of defense.
And as we've been showing you all day, this is the image that sums up the day and to a large extent, the war itself. U.S. forces urged on by Baghdad residents toppling the statue of Saddam Hussein in one of the city's main squares.
Throughout the city there were mass impromptu celebrations with residents hailing the apparent end of Saddam Hussein's 24-year iron rule, although necessarily not the end of the war, at least not yet. This is how the fall of Baghdad unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): In Baghdad the symbolism is everywhere and so is the danger. U.S. military convoys, tanks, armored personnel carriers and other vehicles roll into central Baghdad. U.S. Marines occupy the square in the heart of the city. Marines and Army troops tighten their grips on many parts of the capital.
But while many Baghdad residents pour into the streets in celebration, many others begin looting. And reporters around the city say several parts of the capital have erupted into nothing short of anarchy.
SAVIDGE: We're way beyond sniper fire, Paula. This is all-out complete engagement here. We've got mortar fire, heavy machine guns, fires now burning on the campus. This is Baghdad University and it is warfare on this campus at this moment. Then we had an RPG that flew past us and impacted the wall next to us. BLITZER: That's just two miles away from Firdos (ph) square where a massive statue of Saddam Hussein is battered for hours by locals. Then Marines get into the act. An American flag is placed over Saddam's head, torn down less than a minute later. An Iraqi flag is draped over Saddam also brought down in minutes.
Less than 15 minutes after that, a Marine tank recovery vehicle pulls the statue down. But perhaps the metaphor, the statue refuses to completely fall until a few seconds later. Crowds converge to dance on top of a fallen icon. The broken head of the statue then dragged through the streets.
At day's end, reminders. Baghdad is not yet completely fallen, pockets of resistance and chaos await U.S.-led forces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And let's go live to Baghdad right now for a situation on the ground report. For that we turn to Sultan Sliman of the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation. Thanks so much for joining us, Sultan. Give us an immediate assessment on your part, the current situation in Baghdad.
SULTAN SLIMAN, LBC: The current situation in Baghdad right now, it's very dark. It's very calm. We didn't hear any shots or fire guns or bombing in long hours ago. We are in the Palestine Meridian Hotel. It's very dark around us as you see, but it's calm. There is nothing we can talk about it regarding what's going on right now. The hotel is guarded by the U.S. Marines and the streets around us are patrolled by the U.S. Marines as well.
BLITZER: Is it your sense that this war, for all practical purposes, Sultan, is over?
SLIMAN: I don't think that everything is over. During the day, we noticed that there were some few fighters here and there, and those might have pockets of resistance in different parts of the city.
So I think now in the chaos that we saw and the big mess that we saw might leave a big impact on the deployment of the U.S. Marines in Baghdad because such chaos and mess would create troubles. Especially, most of the Baghdadi people have weapons -- individual weapons -- and as you noticed during the day, we could see them robbing and stealing the public institutions and then burning it. And who knows what would happen tomorrow if they started to make other actions like that?
BLITZER: But from your perspective, there's been a dramatic change. There's no more visible appearance of the regular Iraqi army, the secret police, the special Republican Guard. Indeed, nobody from the ministry of information showed up for work today. That's a huge change. Do you sense that the government of Saddam Hussein has now effectively collapsed?
SLIMAN: In fact, the last official showup took place yesterday during the middle of the day when the information minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, held a press conference and threatened U.S. Marines to be killed at the gates of Baghdad. But after that, we couldn't see any Iraqi official. We couldn't see any of the Iraqi former military forces of any unit, neither the Republican Guard or the Fedayeen Saddam or Ba'ath Party militias, since yesterday in the evening. There was nobody in the streets from the public and formal military units.
So, since yesterday, I think they left everything and went home. I think, yes, the regime collapsed yesterday in the evening -- not today. Today, when the U.S. troops were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Baghdad, there was nothing facing them. They just were met by some chaos here and there.
The people who were carrying guns just were carrying guns to protect themselves from each other because they want to take this stuff from this building and they don't want the others to take it from them, and some buildings, some fightings took place because of the stuff that was being grabbed by this guy or that guy.
BLITZER: Sultan Sliman, thanks so much for joining us from the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation -- live from the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad on this very, very historic, dramatic day. Almost three weeks to the day since the start of this war, you heard it just now from Sultan -- the Iraqi government has effectively crumbled. Not necessarily even today, but perhaps even yesterday.
One Iraqi who, apparently, understands the handwriting on the wall is Mohammed Aldouri. He's Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations. Our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth has the latest now on the ambassador's position and what he's saying about Saddam Hussein -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Mohammed Aldouri is the only person accredited to the Iraqi government who was speaking today, and he called it as he saw it and was rather blunt about the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: My hope now is peace for everybody. This is what I have.
ROTH: Since you're only going to say it once, let us just hear it.
ALDOURI: Sorry?
ROTH: Let me just ask you...
ALDOURI: No. I cannot answer your question. I told you, I repeat again, the game is over. I hope that peace will prevail and the Iraqi people at the end of day will have a peaceful life.
ROTH: What do you mean that the game is over?
ALDOURI: The war, I mean. ROTH: So you are convinced the war is over?
ALDOURI: Yes. Yes. Yes. It's over.
ROTH: What is the situation with Saddam Hussein?
ALDOURI: I don't know. Perhaps America knows. I have no relationship with Saddam so I can't tell you. I am here. Thank you.
ROTH: Explain to me, sir, now. What do you mean you have no relationship with Saddam? What does that mean?
ALDOURI: Now I have no communication with Iraq. I am here so I know nothing about what is going there.
ROTH: What do you make, sir, of the pictures you've seen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALDOURI: All right, the ambassador began there by saying the game is over. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, asked about those comments, said it wasn't a game. He would say, said Rumsfeld, that it was over when President Bush announced that Saddam Hussein's regime had refused to accept various resolutions here. Some comments on "the game is over" -- the British ambassador was supportive that the Iraqi ambassador knew what indeed was happening, and several diplomats have said Aldouri is a decent man caught in a bad spot. Back to you -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Richard Roth, with the latest from the United Nations. Thanks very much.
And as we mentioned, amid the wild celebrations in Baghdad today, there were some pockets of intense firefights. American Marines ran into some heavy fighting at Baghdad University. CNN's Martin Savage is with those Marines and tells us about that fierce battle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVAGE: Baghdad is still under a blackout and, due to the strict military regulations about light discipline, we are not allowed to show you anything outside using illumination. So we've come inside this out building on the campus of Baghdad University. It is littered with bedrolls and sleeping bags from previous occupiers. Who they were, we're not quite clear of at this particular point. Whether they were part of the engagement that the Marines had today on this campus, well, is unclear.
Outside, at least in this neighborhood, the streets of Baghdad are quiet. They are dark. Occasionally, there is the distant sound of explosions, but otherwise it is a very subdued mood compared to the celebration of the scene earlier today.
When we arrived, we were embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines. The Marines came in from the southeast direction, made a strong push into this portion of Baghdad that had not been taken before. Initially, on the streets, the Marines were greeted by waves, by "V" for victory signs, by people shouting, by people smiling. Many of the Marines thought it was a great welcome -- something they weren't sure they were going to receive.
Then, as we turned onto another street -- passing by the campus of Baghdad University -- Scott McWinny (ph), riding up front in a Marine armored personnel carrier, was about to cross over a bridge that would connect the Marines to the other side where the Army had been. It was at that moment that an Iraqi gunboat, just below them, opened fire.
Scotty rushed to get out of the vehicle and tried to get pictures, and then the fighting began to break out all around us on the Baghdad University campus. It began first with simple gunshots and quickly escalated. Machine gunfire, rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the convoy of the U.S. Marines.
The Marines immediately began to organize, return fire. They fired rockets of their own into the campus. Then, armored personnel carriers ran down at least one wall of the campus and stormed out of the campus grounds -- followed by infantry Marines on foot, charging ahead, setting up mortars, and setting up machine guns. What followed was an intense firefight that lasted for at least 30 minutes as the Marines were fired upon from several buildings on the campus and returned heavy fire as well.
They also spotted on the grounds these technos (ph), these sort of pickup trucks with heavy machine guns mounted in the back. Also anti-aircraft artillery pieces were found there.
The marines methodically opened fire on each of these weapons that they found. At one point, there was a techno that had moved into open ground. Quickly, other machine gun crews began to zero in on it, open fire, trying to hit the vehicle and anyone who might be inside, and to destroy both the vehicle and the ammunition.
It was a full-on fight, in the words of the Marines, as they carefully manipulated their armored personnel carriers around the perimeter to control the space. And at the same time, while the marines on foot continued to give strong, heavy fire from their machine guns and whoever was attacking them.
Eventually, the firefight died away, but not before a huge cache of anti-aircraft artillery was struck, sending up a nonstop barrage of shell after shell after shell exploding and flying into the air from a tremendous amount of ammunition that must have been stored on the campus grounds. Eventually the marines moved in.
It is unclear at this point who, exactly, was firing and how many casualties were suffered on the part of the Iraqi opposition force. The Marines are still trying to ascertain that tonight and will continue to do so in the daylight.
Was this the last big battle of Baghdad? No one can say that for certain. Ironically, as the fight of their lives was taking place on the campus, the people of Baghdad were celebrating, joyously, just a couple of streets away.
Martin Savage, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And as we've heard, there's been widespread looting in Baghdad, especially of government offices. With no one even trying to stop them, residents have been taking just about anything that's not nailed down. The common feeling among these Iraqis seems to be they're taking back from the government that which was taken from them.
U.S. forces are not intervening, and officials at the central command say they expect the situation will settle down soon.
Let's go to the south now in Basra. The looting has mostly ended there simply because there's little left to take. British forces say they control most of the city. But like their U.S. counterparts in Baghdad today, they did little to stop the stealing. With no water in the city and the hospital overwhelmed with war casualties, resentment is clearly growing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is no authority here. People are fighting with each other and many are looting. I want to know: is this liberation? they claim it is. What are they thinking? What kind of liberation is this? Let them define it. They just watch people fighting and looting. These people are hungry and tired. They're entering homes and looting. They are looting schools. They are looting medical center. Medical equipment is looted, too. All under the watch of American and British forces who are not doing anything. So why are they here? They came to harm us. They came to humiliate us, humiliate our values, our dignity. Do they want to kill me? Kill our children? Destroy our medical centers and schools? They just brought destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Here's another remarkable image from today: an Iraqi man standing atop an American military vehicle waving the Iraqi flag. But right now that flag apparently has no government behind it.
For more of the power vacuum inside Iraq let's go to CNN's Rym Brahimi. She so monitoring these incredibly quick-changing developments from Amman, Jordan. Rym, what's your sense about the situation now?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's very interesting to look at what's been happening with this war since the beginning of the U.S.-led campaign. A lot of people have called it a war of surprises. Indeed, the resistance that was encountered in the beginning was surprise as maybe is the lack of resistance or relative lack of resistance when the U.S. troops came into Baghdad. I don't think -- I think the government was expected to put up a bit more of a fight.
Suddenly here in the Arab world, and outside of Iraq a lot of people say almost casually that there they're a little disappointed. They would have liked to see the Iraqis put up a bit more of a fight just out of principle. And that tells you a little bit about what -- how complex a country like Iraq in a region like this is and how a power vacuum can affect the country.
This is something that everybody was worried about from the beginning. I don't think anybody was worried about toppling Saddam Hussein or anything like that. But I think they were worried about the after Saddam because precisely of the potential of chaos that a power vacuum could lead to.
The looting is one aspect of it, but then a lot of people fear there could be also revenge attacks. For instance, I remember just before the war, a lot of people, some of them involved even mildly with the Baath Party, at the time the ruling Baath Party, were saying they were more afraid of their neighbors than they were of the U.S. bombs that would fall on them.
And of course, as you heard the gentleman say, a question of what kind of liberation is this and where is it going to lead to -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rym Brahimi. She's monitoring these dramatic and historic developments for us. Thanks, Rym, very much.
And here's your chance to weigh in on the war in Iraq. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf.
So where is Saddam Hussein during all of this and is he dead or alive? The latest intelligence on the Iraqi leader and his two sons when we return. Plus, skies over Baghdad, reaction to today's developments from the American pilots and celebrations in chaos. Scenes from the streets.
But first, these live pictures from Dearborn, Michigan, where Iraqi-Americans are celebrating this day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A dramatic day in Baghdad with so many dramatic pictures. Here, Iraqis burning an image of Saddam Hussein. That's an image that's unfolding throughout the country right now. The mood is also very optimistic in the United States.
For more on today's military action let's go live immediately to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: A very interesting day here at the Pentagon. Of course, officials are being very cautious about any premature declarations of victory or celebrations. But, in a way, this was a V-day of sort for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Not because it's time for victory yet, but because there's a certain feeling of vindication here that the war plan, the war strategy that was much second-guessed in the beginning of the war appears now to be panning out.
Here's some reflections on how things are going from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: This is a good day for the Iraqi people. There are -- is no question but that there are difficult and very dangerous days ahead and that the fighting will continue for some period. But certainly anyone seeing the faces of the liberated Iraqis, the free Iraqis has to say that this is a very good day. Saddam Hussein is now taking his rightful place alongside Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Ceausescu in the pantheon of failed, brutal dictators and the Iraqi people are well on their way to freedom.
We still must capture, account for or otherwise deal with Saddam Hussein and his sons and the senior Iraqi leadership. We still must find and ensure the safe return of prisoners of war. Those captured in this war as well as any still held from the last Gulf War. Americans and other nationals.
There's a lot more fighting that's going to be done. There are -- more people are going to be killed. Let there be no doubt. This is not over despite the celebrations on the street. They will go in at exactly the right moment and do a very good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: A military analyst pointed out a number of revolutionary remarkable aspects of this campaign, not the least of which was the ability of that B-1 bomber to target the last known whereabouts of Saddam Hussein just 45 minutes after the intelligence was pass to the U.S. military.
And, of course, the sustained blitzkrieg march to Baghdad that required very long supply lines a very difficult maneuver. But again, the Pentagon is being very careful to say this war isn't over yet. There may still be fighting and dying to come -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre with the latest from the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.
And not withstanding Saddam Hussein, whether he is alive or dead, his loyalists are putting up a fight in at least some small parts of Iraq.
Here's the latest on the battle lines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): From Baghdad, partly in control, partly in chaos, reminders that this war is not over in the capital or in the north. Near Kalar, halfway between Sulaymaniyah and Baghdad in the northeast, CNN's Brent Sadler and his crew capture scenes of a battle. Kurdish fighters and U.S. Special Forces fire mortars and converge on a smalltown. Iraqi fighters abandon their position.
A larger battle may await. Northwest of Baghdad in the hometown of the Iraqi leader, who's clearly lost most of his power and whose whereabouts are unknown. Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's ancestral home. U.S. Central Command says Iraqi forces have withdrawn to that city and are reinforcing it.
And Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi cautions the coalition he's seen unconfirmed reports that puts Saddam Hussein and at least one of his sons in a town northeast of Baghdad.
In the south, Basra, British forces say they've suppressed most of the looting there.
In Nasiriya, pro-coalition paramilitaries known as the Free Iraqi Forces. U.S. special forces training them for a role in this fight.
And let's go immediately to CNN's Gary Tuchman. He's at an air base along the Iraqi border. For the latest developments there.
Gary, tell us what's going on.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we have an update about the man known as Chemical Ali. It's still not 100 percent confirmed that he was killed in that attack in his compound in Basra. They are reasonably sure.
But what we are sure about right now is where the bomb came from. It came from this base near the Iraqi border. It was an F-16 fighter plane from this base that dropped munitions on that compound and they do believe here they were the ones responsible for the death of Chemical Ali.
We do want to talk about the pilot. There is a lot of elation among the pilots, who we've been with now for three weeks, that the war may be coming close to an end. We talked with pilots today who flew to Baghdad this morning and watched the news on television this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Major, I want to ask you, watching all of the scenes on TV today. How does it make you feel as a pilot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very rewarding because we know that it's coming to a close. It's great to see the Iraqi people feel safe enough to come out of their homes and celebrate like that. It's great to see the Marines and the Army holding those positions and they're all safe. And we know that we're very, very close to the end of this thing, which is what we all want and so we can all get back home. TUCHMAN: And do you know -- at this point are you doing less flying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The schedule's been, yes, in the last day or two it's been drawn back a little bit. We're shifting priorities from Baghdad to other areas and the stuff that's coming back from Baghdad has basically been just unexpended weapons because there's no need to use them out there right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: And indeed the number of sorties has decreased. The latest numbers we've been given from this morning until tomorrow morning, a total of 1,650 sorties. That's down from the peak of 2,000 that we had last week.
We do want to tell you the U.S. Air Force still says the Iraqi air force has flown absolutely no sorties and it's unlikely to ever fly any sorties. And that's noteworthy because when you go back to when this war started, which was on March 19 -- if you go back three days before that, March 16, that was the 15th anniversary of when the Iraqi air force dropped bombs with chemical weapons on northern Iraq, killing thousands of Kurds. It was March 16, 1988.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Gary, getting back to the Chemical Ali story, the British government, the British military, the U.S. military, the Pentagon, Central Command, they thought they got them for sure. Are you suggesting now that they might have not gotten Ali Hassan al- Majid, the man known as Chemical Ali?
TUCHMAN: No, not at all. As a matter of fact, all I'm saying is they're still not 100 percent sure. They're reasonably certain. What we are certain about right now is where the plane came from that had the bomb that dropped on the compound in Basra and that plane came from this base where we're at.
BLITZER: All right. Gary Tuchman, thanks for that update. I asked you that follow-up question because when I interviewed Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress leader, earlier in the day, he also raised questions whether Chemical Ali was still alive or whether in fact he was dead. The U.S. and the British military both convinced they got this guy the other day.
Thanks very much, Gary Tuchman.
A historic moment in Iraq, the fall of Baghdad, but is the war over or is the hard work about to start? We'll take a closer look at that.
Plus, Saddam Hussein nowhere to be found. Is he dead or alive? We'll get the latest intelligence.
And a warm welcome for U.S. troops, but are the streets really safe? First, once again these live pictures from Dearborn, Michigan, where Iraqi-Americans are celebrating this historic day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City. With correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN's up-to-the-minute coverage of the war in Iraq.
In just a moment, Baghdad's falling, so where is Saddam Hussein and his henchmen? We'll have the latest U.S. intelligence.
But first for the latest headlines, let's go back to CNN's Heidi Collins in the CNN news room in Atlanta -- Heidi.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go back to Baghdad. We saw many scenes like this one earlier today. A man striking a poster of Saddam Hussein with his shoe. That's a high insult. A high insult in Arab culture.
I want to be back on the scene in Baghdad a short while ago. I spoke with Maher Abdallah -- he's a reporter with Al-Jazeera -- about the situation in and the mood in Baghdad right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAHER ABDALLAH, AL-JAZEERA CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends what street of Baghdad you're talking about. Generally speaking, I think the western part is already under occupation, if that is the right word.
Today what we have witnessed this afternoon, if you like, the invasion, extending to the eastern part of Baghdad, the part of town called Arosafah (ph), but to the north -- a little bit to the north of here there is a town -- a quarter, if you like, by the name of Ashab (ph). We could still hear up to something like an hour ago some tank explosions and some, like, medium-sized machine guns going on.
Generally speaking, the area we are in ever since the Marines came it's a little bit more peaceful. A little bit more quiet. It wasn't so yesterday, but we were full of expectations as to what kind of trouble are we in for tomorrow?
I think everybody's mind is at peace tonight. We feel a little bit safe, especially that this morning we were really worried when we saw the pictures. Our colleagues went to some district where there was a lot of looting, a lot of in-fighting for the looting. So the Marines gave that sense of security at least for the part we are in right now.
BLITZER: What about the Republican Guards, the special Republican Guards, the Saddam Fedayeen? What happened to them? We don't see them anymore.
ABDALLAH: I don't know. We actually never saw them, to be honest with you. We could only hear explosions where everybody was assuming it was them. The western media definitely the American forces played them up a lot. They were talking about the much feared Republican Guard, the much-feared Fedayeen.
Actually, in Baghdad we didn't see them much. There were anti- aircraft machine guns yesterday. There were tank explosions, yes, but we didn't actually see any movement that would indicate the existence of any uniform force that was ready to fight the Americans. That is why I think the process...
BLITZER: Do you think the Iraqi...
ABDALLAH: ... so easily. So smoothly.
BLITZER: Do you believe the Iraqi people are genuinely happy about the fall of Saddam Hussein?
ABDALLAH: Well, the ones I saw this afternoon -- I spent two and a half hours talking about what I was seeing. I think it was a genuine happiness. Not necessarily with Saddam. People have been wanting a change for a long time. The only problem was nobody trusted the United States of America to be the right instrument for that change.
What I think happened today is that people, like, were happy with the change regardless of who did it. You could see there were -- there was a little bit of clapping when the American flag was raised on top of the head of the statues that we saw, but there was a lot more cheering and clapping when the Iraqi -- the old Iraqi flag, may I add, was raised.
I would say generally people wanted change. They were happy that they've got change.
BLITZER: Maher Abdallah of Al-Jazeera. Thanks for spending a few minutes with us. I appreciate it very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And despite today's stunning developments in Baghdad, historic developments in Baghdad, the fate of Saddam Hussein remains very much a mystery.
Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is joining me now live with the latest on what his sources are saying.
David, tell us.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, even as Saddam Hussein's power seemed to be evaporating, what was left of it, almost overnight, there was still questions about whether he has evaporated. Where is he? And we still don't have the answers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): As the regime appeared to go up in smoke, U.S. officials said its control in Baghdad has disintegrated.
As for Saddam Hussein, officials still don't know his fate.
RUMSFELD: He's either dead or he's incapacitated, or he's healthy and cowering in some tunnel some place, trying to avoid being caught.
KENNETH POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: He is still important because there are people who will continue to fight as long as he is alive.
ENSOR: Rumors flew that Saddam might be in the Russian embassy in Baghdad. False, said the Russians and U.S. officials, too.
It seemed clear after meetings at the White House that senior intelligence officials were pleased with the way things are going. But urgent tasks remain, including finding weapons of mass destruction, keeping any of them from moving out of the country. The U.S. is offering rewards and amnesty for help.
U.S. intelligence must also account for all of the members of the regime, the intelligence, the police, the Fedayeen Saddam, that may still be alive. And figure out who in Iraq who can be trusted. It is a mammoth task.
POLLACK: Vet Iraqi personnel, vet Iraqi bureaucrats determine those who really do have enough blood on their hands that they probably should be excluded from a post-war administration and those who can be brought back in and help to set up a new transitional authority to help to administer the country.
ENSOR: Then there are the neighbors to worry about. Secretary Rumsfeld complained about the role of Syria.
RUMSFELD: Senior regime people are moving out of Iraq into Syria. And Syria is continuing to send things into Iraq. We find it notably unhelpful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: U.S. officials say despite a lot of rumors, they have no solid information that any senior Iraqi officials have entered Syria, though some of their relatives have. Needless to say, U.S. officials are watching that border very closely -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor with the latest on Saddam Hussein. Thanks, David, very much.
It's been a hectic day. A dramatic day, historic I would say, as well, in Baghdad and the capital remains so tense this evening. As soon as something happens there we'll, of course, bring it to you live here on CNN throughout the night.
And we'll show you the sound and the pictures, the most compelling images from today's development. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Different cities, different scenes. This was from Nasiriya in southern Iraq earlier today. People celebrating the fact that that city is in allied hands, following weeks of ferocious battles, three weeks, to be precise.
U.S. and Kurdish forces have won their first joint operation against Iraqi positions in the northern part of the country.
Our Brent Sadler is standing nearby. All of those developments near Kalar, with a CNN exclusive report -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have no FB, what's happened? Someone's speaking?
Thanks, Wolf. Over the past few minutes, tremendous explosions on this sector of the southeast, northern front. Really U.S. special forces directing in, B-52 bombers really pounding front line positions, really to clear the way for further advances south towards Baghdad along a main road.
If we go back a few hours we can see the first joint assault of Iraqi positions by U.S. special forces using a 60 millimeter mortar to throw up a heavy barrage of shells against Iraqi front line position and then really a charge, nothing less than a charge, but Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, moving to storm Iraqi positions just as Iraqis were pulling out, very close to each other. But the Iraqis slipped away under a hail of lead.
Also today as that's been going on, we've seen demonstrations, celebrations, rather, in Erbil and the two other governments in northern Iraq. Iraqi Kurds really responding positively to the scenes we saw in Baghdad with the collapse of the regime, the pulling down of Saddam Hussein's statue and the U.S. tank moved, the Marine moved inside Baghdad.
Spontaneous street demonstrations in the Iraqi Kurdish enclave, the Iraqi Kurdish enclave, of course, having ruled itself for the past 12 years, yet really still living in the shadow of Saddam Hussein's unpredictability.
Iraqi Kurds today on two fronts celebrating in their cities and also pushing forward with American special forces on the ground against the collapsing positions of Iraq's army in the north.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent, you also had some exclusive information on this joint U.S.-Kurdish operation that unfolded today. Briefly tell our viewers about that.
SADLER: Yes, indeed, Wolf. We've seen a pattern over the past three weeks during the war of U.S. close air support being used. B- 52s and F-15E Strike Eagles, aircraft operating from carriers in the eastern Mediterranean, where they're operating across many sectors of the northern front.
But this time was the first time -- and I've been with these special force units in close quarters for the past several days -- first time they were pinpointing positions on the ground, confirming targets and really guiding the Peshmerga, who couldn't wait to really storm those positions themselves, really close quarters fighting -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent Sadler with those exclusive reports. Thanks very much, Brent, for that information and for all your good work.
Just about anything could happen in the Iraqi capital tonight. You'll want to stay with us throughout the night, throughout the night for CNN's exclusive live coverage. You'll see whatever happens here first.
Also, what was the reaction at the White House of today's dramatic developments in Baghdad? We'll go live to our John King at the White House, just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There may well be hard fighting yet ahead. Regime forces are still in control in northern Iraq, In Mosul and Kirkuk and Tikrit.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yet with the caution came a small dose of we told you so.
CHENEY: In the early days of the war, the plan was criticized by some retired military officers embedded in TV studios. But with every day and every advance by our coalition forces, the wisdom of that plan becomes more apparent.
KING: As the troops press on, the administration is accelerating planning for post-war Iraq.
Retired Army General Jay Garner leads the civil authority that will move in soon and run key services until power can be handed over to a new interim Iraqi authority. The administration blue print still has no firm time table for getting the interim authority up and running, but planning meetings in southern Iraq will begin as early as next week, involving a mix of indigenous Iraqis and exiles and dissidents now returning home, with General Tommy Franks in charge of the invitations.
The hope is with Saddam Hussein out of the picture, local leaders will naturally emerge to help shape the new authority.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The president has very high levels of faith in the ability of the Iraqi people to govern themselves and make these decisions for themselves. KING: Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi is a favorite of many top Bush advisers and will be among those invited to post-war planning sessions, but his complaints that the administration is moving too slowly with reconstruction efforts have annoyed even some of his top administration supporters, and officials stress he is but one of many voices in the post-war political debate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: We are told before the week is out and perhaps as early as tomorrow the president will lay out his sense of the challenges still ahead. Behind the scenes here there is a palpable sense of vindication, but we also are told that caution is likely to be the public watchword for some time to come -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thanks, John, very much.
And do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already? You still have a chance to vote. Go to my Web page: cnn.com/wolf. We'll reveal the results as soon as we come back.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Bush. We really like Mr. Bush. Mr. Bush OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Some of the more dramatic sights and sounds seen in Baghdad today.
Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember we asked you, "Do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already?" Twenty-four percent of you say yes; 76 percent say no.
That's all the time we have today. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 9, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): History made in Baghdad. Tonight, Saddam Hussein's downfall. The Iraqi regime goes into hiding as its citizens come out to celebrate.
No warm recep (ph) here. U.S. troops get a shock as they take Baghdad.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is Baghdad University and this is warfare on this campus at this moment.
BLITZER: Taking what they want. Crowds get chaotic.
Bad military move? Was this error in judgment?
And happening right now, new reports of Saddam's survival. All this on day 21 of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City. With correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A power vacuum in Baghdad as U.S. troops work to restore order. The big question tonight is this, who will succeed Saddam Hussein?
Hello from Kuwait City. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. Despite all appearances, the United States says the war in Iraq is not over. But a short while ago Iraq's United Nation's ambassador said, and I'm quoting now, "the game is over."
Here's the latest. U.S. forces are still engaged in deadly combat throughout the country. Our CNN cameras captured this firefight at the University of Baghdad.
And right now there has yet to be a ground fight for control of Saddam Hussein's ancestral hometown of Tikrit. The U.S. says that city is being reinforced by troops loyal to the Iraqi regime.
Also happening right now there are new reports from an Iraqi opposition group which placed Saddam Hussein supposedly northeast of Baghdad. This despite the Pentagon repeating the fact that it doesn't know his status.
And the casualties keep coming. Arab TV shows overcrowded hospitals in Iraq. An international relief agency reports many injured civilians can't get help because ambulances can't get to them.
We have correspondents covering this story throughout the hour. CNN's Rym Brahimi who recently spent time in Baghdad. CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, he's at the Pentagon. And CNN's Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth, he is covering a dramatic declaration from the Iraqi ambassador.
All of that coming up. First, to Heidi Collins in the CNN newsroom.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: Before we do anything else I want to go to Capitol Hill in Washington, that's where the Defense Secretary Donald Rums is speaking right now.
(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)
BLITZER: ... speaking briefly with reporters. We're going to continue to monitor all of his statements, of course. Critical statements three weeks into this war, not declaring victory yet. But clearly a very, very happy United States secretary of defense.
And as we've been showing you all day, this is the image that sums up the day and to a large extent, the war itself. U.S. forces urged on by Baghdad residents toppling the statue of Saddam Hussein in one of the city's main squares.
Throughout the city there were mass impromptu celebrations with residents hailing the apparent end of Saddam Hussein's 24-year iron rule, although necessarily not the end of the war, at least not yet. This is how the fall of Baghdad unfolded.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): In Baghdad the symbolism is everywhere and so is the danger. U.S. military convoys, tanks, armored personnel carriers and other vehicles roll into central Baghdad. U.S. Marines occupy the square in the heart of the city. Marines and Army troops tighten their grips on many parts of the capital.
But while many Baghdad residents pour into the streets in celebration, many others begin looting. And reporters around the city say several parts of the capital have erupted into nothing short of anarchy.
SAVIDGE: We're way beyond sniper fire, Paula. This is all-out complete engagement here. We've got mortar fire, heavy machine guns, fires now burning on the campus. This is Baghdad University and it is warfare on this campus at this moment. Then we had an RPG that flew past us and impacted the wall next to us. BLITZER: That's just two miles away from Firdos (ph) square where a massive statue of Saddam Hussein is battered for hours by locals. Then Marines get into the act. An American flag is placed over Saddam's head, torn down less than a minute later. An Iraqi flag is draped over Saddam also brought down in minutes.
Less than 15 minutes after that, a Marine tank recovery vehicle pulls the statue down. But perhaps the metaphor, the statue refuses to completely fall until a few seconds later. Crowds converge to dance on top of a fallen icon. The broken head of the statue then dragged through the streets.
At day's end, reminders. Baghdad is not yet completely fallen, pockets of resistance and chaos await U.S.-led forces.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And let's go live to Baghdad right now for a situation on the ground report. For that we turn to Sultan Sliman of the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation. Thanks so much for joining us, Sultan. Give us an immediate assessment on your part, the current situation in Baghdad.
SULTAN SLIMAN, LBC: The current situation in Baghdad right now, it's very dark. It's very calm. We didn't hear any shots or fire guns or bombing in long hours ago. We are in the Palestine Meridian Hotel. It's very dark around us as you see, but it's calm. There is nothing we can talk about it regarding what's going on right now. The hotel is guarded by the U.S. Marines and the streets around us are patrolled by the U.S. Marines as well.
BLITZER: Is it your sense that this war, for all practical purposes, Sultan, is over?
SLIMAN: I don't think that everything is over. During the day, we noticed that there were some few fighters here and there, and those might have pockets of resistance in different parts of the city.
So I think now in the chaos that we saw and the big mess that we saw might leave a big impact on the deployment of the U.S. Marines in Baghdad because such chaos and mess would create troubles. Especially, most of the Baghdadi people have weapons -- individual weapons -- and as you noticed during the day, we could see them robbing and stealing the public institutions and then burning it. And who knows what would happen tomorrow if they started to make other actions like that?
BLITZER: But from your perspective, there's been a dramatic change. There's no more visible appearance of the regular Iraqi army, the secret police, the special Republican Guard. Indeed, nobody from the ministry of information showed up for work today. That's a huge change. Do you sense that the government of Saddam Hussein has now effectively collapsed?
SLIMAN: In fact, the last official showup took place yesterday during the middle of the day when the information minister, Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf, held a press conference and threatened U.S. Marines to be killed at the gates of Baghdad. But after that, we couldn't see any Iraqi official. We couldn't see any of the Iraqi former military forces of any unit, neither the Republican Guard or the Fedayeen Saddam or Ba'ath Party militias, since yesterday in the evening. There was nobody in the streets from the public and formal military units.
So, since yesterday, I think they left everything and went home. I think, yes, the regime collapsed yesterday in the evening -- not today. Today, when the U.S. troops were (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Baghdad, there was nothing facing them. They just were met by some chaos here and there.
The people who were carrying guns just were carrying guns to protect themselves from each other because they want to take this stuff from this building and they don't want the others to take it from them, and some buildings, some fightings took place because of the stuff that was being grabbed by this guy or that guy.
BLITZER: Sultan Sliman, thanks so much for joining us from the Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation -- live from the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad on this very, very historic, dramatic day. Almost three weeks to the day since the start of this war, you heard it just now from Sultan -- the Iraqi government has effectively crumbled. Not necessarily even today, but perhaps even yesterday.
One Iraqi who, apparently, understands the handwriting on the wall is Mohammed Aldouri. He's Iraq's ambassador to the United Nations. Our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth has the latest now on the ambassador's position and what he's saying about Saddam Hussein -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Mohammed Aldouri is the only person accredited to the Iraqi government who was speaking today, and he called it as he saw it and was rather blunt about the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMED ALDOURI, IRAQI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: My hope now is peace for everybody. This is what I have.
ROTH: Since you're only going to say it once, let us just hear it.
ALDOURI: Sorry?
ROTH: Let me just ask you...
ALDOURI: No. I cannot answer your question. I told you, I repeat again, the game is over. I hope that peace will prevail and the Iraqi people at the end of day will have a peaceful life.
ROTH: What do you mean that the game is over?
ALDOURI: The war, I mean. ROTH: So you are convinced the war is over?
ALDOURI: Yes. Yes. Yes. It's over.
ROTH: What is the situation with Saddam Hussein?
ALDOURI: I don't know. Perhaps America knows. I have no relationship with Saddam so I can't tell you. I am here. Thank you.
ROTH: Explain to me, sir, now. What do you mean you have no relationship with Saddam? What does that mean?
ALDOURI: Now I have no communication with Iraq. I am here so I know nothing about what is going there.
ROTH: What do you make, sir, of the pictures you've seen?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALDOURI: All right, the ambassador began there by saying the game is over. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, asked about those comments, said it wasn't a game. He would say, said Rumsfeld, that it was over when President Bush announced that Saddam Hussein's regime had refused to accept various resolutions here. Some comments on "the game is over" -- the British ambassador was supportive that the Iraqi ambassador knew what indeed was happening, and several diplomats have said Aldouri is a decent man caught in a bad spot. Back to you -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Richard Roth, with the latest from the United Nations. Thanks very much.
And as we mentioned, amid the wild celebrations in Baghdad today, there were some pockets of intense firefights. American Marines ran into some heavy fighting at Baghdad University. CNN's Martin Savage is with those Marines and tells us about that fierce battle.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVAGE: Baghdad is still under a blackout and, due to the strict military regulations about light discipline, we are not allowed to show you anything outside using illumination. So we've come inside this out building on the campus of Baghdad University. It is littered with bedrolls and sleeping bags from previous occupiers. Who they were, we're not quite clear of at this particular point. Whether they were part of the engagement that the Marines had today on this campus, well, is unclear.
Outside, at least in this neighborhood, the streets of Baghdad are quiet. They are dark. Occasionally, there is the distant sound of explosions, but otherwise it is a very subdued mood compared to the celebration of the scene earlier today.
When we arrived, we were embedded with the 1st Battalion 7th Marines. The Marines came in from the southeast direction, made a strong push into this portion of Baghdad that had not been taken before. Initially, on the streets, the Marines were greeted by waves, by "V" for victory signs, by people shouting, by people smiling. Many of the Marines thought it was a great welcome -- something they weren't sure they were going to receive.
Then, as we turned onto another street -- passing by the campus of Baghdad University -- Scott McWinny (ph), riding up front in a Marine armored personnel carrier, was about to cross over a bridge that would connect the Marines to the other side where the Army had been. It was at that moment that an Iraqi gunboat, just below them, opened fire.
Scotty rushed to get out of the vehicle and tried to get pictures, and then the fighting began to break out all around us on the Baghdad University campus. It began first with simple gunshots and quickly escalated. Machine gunfire, rocket-propelled grenades were fired at the convoy of the U.S. Marines.
The Marines immediately began to organize, return fire. They fired rockets of their own into the campus. Then, armored personnel carriers ran down at least one wall of the campus and stormed out of the campus grounds -- followed by infantry Marines on foot, charging ahead, setting up mortars, and setting up machine guns. What followed was an intense firefight that lasted for at least 30 minutes as the Marines were fired upon from several buildings on the campus and returned heavy fire as well.
They also spotted on the grounds these technos (ph), these sort of pickup trucks with heavy machine guns mounted in the back. Also anti-aircraft artillery pieces were found there.
The marines methodically opened fire on each of these weapons that they found. At one point, there was a techno that had moved into open ground. Quickly, other machine gun crews began to zero in on it, open fire, trying to hit the vehicle and anyone who might be inside, and to destroy both the vehicle and the ammunition.
It was a full-on fight, in the words of the Marines, as they carefully manipulated their armored personnel carriers around the perimeter to control the space. And at the same time, while the marines on foot continued to give strong, heavy fire from their machine guns and whoever was attacking them.
Eventually, the firefight died away, but not before a huge cache of anti-aircraft artillery was struck, sending up a nonstop barrage of shell after shell after shell exploding and flying into the air from a tremendous amount of ammunition that must have been stored on the campus grounds. Eventually the marines moved in.
It is unclear at this point who, exactly, was firing and how many casualties were suffered on the part of the Iraqi opposition force. The Marines are still trying to ascertain that tonight and will continue to do so in the daylight.
Was this the last big battle of Baghdad? No one can say that for certain. Ironically, as the fight of their lives was taking place on the campus, the people of Baghdad were celebrating, joyously, just a couple of streets away.
Martin Savage, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And as we've heard, there's been widespread looting in Baghdad, especially of government offices. With no one even trying to stop them, residents have been taking just about anything that's not nailed down. The common feeling among these Iraqis seems to be they're taking back from the government that which was taken from them.
U.S. forces are not intervening, and officials at the central command say they expect the situation will settle down soon.
Let's go to the south now in Basra. The looting has mostly ended there simply because there's little left to take. British forces say they control most of the city. But like their U.S. counterparts in Baghdad today, they did little to stop the stealing. With no water in the city and the hospital overwhelmed with war casualties, resentment is clearly growing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is no authority here. People are fighting with each other and many are looting. I want to know: is this liberation? they claim it is. What are they thinking? What kind of liberation is this? Let them define it. They just watch people fighting and looting. These people are hungry and tired. They're entering homes and looting. They are looting schools. They are looting medical center. Medical equipment is looted, too. All under the watch of American and British forces who are not doing anything. So why are they here? They came to harm us. They came to humiliate us, humiliate our values, our dignity. Do they want to kill me? Kill our children? Destroy our medical centers and schools? They just brought destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Here's another remarkable image from today: an Iraqi man standing atop an American military vehicle waving the Iraqi flag. But right now that flag apparently has no government behind it.
For more of the power vacuum inside Iraq let's go to CNN's Rym Brahimi. She so monitoring these incredibly quick-changing developments from Amman, Jordan. Rym, what's your sense about the situation now?
RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's very interesting to look at what's been happening with this war since the beginning of the U.S.-led campaign. A lot of people have called it a war of surprises. Indeed, the resistance that was encountered in the beginning was surprise as maybe is the lack of resistance or relative lack of resistance when the U.S. troops came into Baghdad. I don't think -- I think the government was expected to put up a bit more of a fight.
Suddenly here in the Arab world, and outside of Iraq a lot of people say almost casually that there they're a little disappointed. They would have liked to see the Iraqis put up a bit more of a fight just out of principle. And that tells you a little bit about what -- how complex a country like Iraq in a region like this is and how a power vacuum can affect the country.
This is something that everybody was worried about from the beginning. I don't think anybody was worried about toppling Saddam Hussein or anything like that. But I think they were worried about the after Saddam because precisely of the potential of chaos that a power vacuum could lead to.
The looting is one aspect of it, but then a lot of people fear there could be also revenge attacks. For instance, I remember just before the war, a lot of people, some of them involved even mildly with the Baath Party, at the time the ruling Baath Party, were saying they were more afraid of their neighbors than they were of the U.S. bombs that would fall on them.
And of course, as you heard the gentleman say, a question of what kind of liberation is this and where is it going to lead to -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Rym Brahimi. She's monitoring these dramatic and historic developments for us. Thanks, Rym, very much.
And here's your chance to weigh in on the war in Iraq. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already?" We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf.
So where is Saddam Hussein during all of this and is he dead or alive? The latest intelligence on the Iraqi leader and his two sons when we return. Plus, skies over Baghdad, reaction to today's developments from the American pilots and celebrations in chaos. Scenes from the streets.
But first, these live pictures from Dearborn, Michigan, where Iraqi-Americans are celebrating this day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A dramatic day in Baghdad with so many dramatic pictures. Here, Iraqis burning an image of Saddam Hussein. That's an image that's unfolding throughout the country right now. The mood is also very optimistic in the United States.
For more on today's military action let's go live immediately to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: A very interesting day here at the Pentagon. Of course, officials are being very cautious about any premature declarations of victory or celebrations. But, in a way, this was a V-day of sort for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Not because it's time for victory yet, but because there's a certain feeling of vindication here that the war plan, the war strategy that was much second-guessed in the beginning of the war appears now to be panning out.
Here's some reflections on how things are going from Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in his own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: This is a good day for the Iraqi people. There are -- is no question but that there are difficult and very dangerous days ahead and that the fighting will continue for some period. But certainly anyone seeing the faces of the liberated Iraqis, the free Iraqis has to say that this is a very good day. Saddam Hussein is now taking his rightful place alongside Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Ceausescu in the pantheon of failed, brutal dictators and the Iraqi people are well on their way to freedom.
We still must capture, account for or otherwise deal with Saddam Hussein and his sons and the senior Iraqi leadership. We still must find and ensure the safe return of prisoners of war. Those captured in this war as well as any still held from the last Gulf War. Americans and other nationals.
There's a lot more fighting that's going to be done. There are -- more people are going to be killed. Let there be no doubt. This is not over despite the celebrations on the street. They will go in at exactly the right moment and do a very good job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: A military analyst pointed out a number of revolutionary remarkable aspects of this campaign, not the least of which was the ability of that B-1 bomber to target the last known whereabouts of Saddam Hussein just 45 minutes after the intelligence was pass to the U.S. military.
And, of course, the sustained blitzkrieg march to Baghdad that required very long supply lines a very difficult maneuver. But again, the Pentagon is being very careful to say this war isn't over yet. There may still be fighting and dying to come -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre with the latest from the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.
And not withstanding Saddam Hussein, whether he is alive or dead, his loyalists are putting up a fight in at least some small parts of Iraq.
Here's the latest on the battle lines.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): From Baghdad, partly in control, partly in chaos, reminders that this war is not over in the capital or in the north. Near Kalar, halfway between Sulaymaniyah and Baghdad in the northeast, CNN's Brent Sadler and his crew capture scenes of a battle. Kurdish fighters and U.S. Special Forces fire mortars and converge on a smalltown. Iraqi fighters abandon their position.
A larger battle may await. Northwest of Baghdad in the hometown of the Iraqi leader, who's clearly lost most of his power and whose whereabouts are unknown. Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's ancestral home. U.S. Central Command says Iraqi forces have withdrawn to that city and are reinforcing it.
And Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi cautions the coalition he's seen unconfirmed reports that puts Saddam Hussein and at least one of his sons in a town northeast of Baghdad.
In the south, Basra, British forces say they've suppressed most of the looting there.
In Nasiriya, pro-coalition paramilitaries known as the Free Iraqi Forces. U.S. special forces training them for a role in this fight.
And let's go immediately to CNN's Gary Tuchman. He's at an air base along the Iraqi border. For the latest developments there.
Gary, tell us what's going on.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we have an update about the man known as Chemical Ali. It's still not 100 percent confirmed that he was killed in that attack in his compound in Basra. They are reasonably sure.
But what we are sure about right now is where the bomb came from. It came from this base near the Iraqi border. It was an F-16 fighter plane from this base that dropped munitions on that compound and they do believe here they were the ones responsible for the death of Chemical Ali.
We do want to talk about the pilot. There is a lot of elation among the pilots, who we've been with now for three weeks, that the war may be coming close to an end. We talked with pilots today who flew to Baghdad this morning and watched the news on television this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Major, I want to ask you, watching all of the scenes on TV today. How does it make you feel as a pilot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very rewarding because we know that it's coming to a close. It's great to see the Iraqi people feel safe enough to come out of their homes and celebrate like that. It's great to see the Marines and the Army holding those positions and they're all safe. And we know that we're very, very close to the end of this thing, which is what we all want and so we can all get back home. TUCHMAN: And do you know -- at this point are you doing less flying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The schedule's been, yes, in the last day or two it's been drawn back a little bit. We're shifting priorities from Baghdad to other areas and the stuff that's coming back from Baghdad has basically been just unexpended weapons because there's no need to use them out there right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: And indeed the number of sorties has decreased. The latest numbers we've been given from this morning until tomorrow morning, a total of 1,650 sorties. That's down from the peak of 2,000 that we had last week.
We do want to tell you the U.S. Air Force still says the Iraqi air force has flown absolutely no sorties and it's unlikely to ever fly any sorties. And that's noteworthy because when you go back to when this war started, which was on March 19 -- if you go back three days before that, March 16, that was the 15th anniversary of when the Iraqi air force dropped bombs with chemical weapons on northern Iraq, killing thousands of Kurds. It was March 16, 1988.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Gary, getting back to the Chemical Ali story, the British government, the British military, the U.S. military, the Pentagon, Central Command, they thought they got them for sure. Are you suggesting now that they might have not gotten Ali Hassan al- Majid, the man known as Chemical Ali?
TUCHMAN: No, not at all. As a matter of fact, all I'm saying is they're still not 100 percent sure. They're reasonably certain. What we are certain about right now is where the plane came from that had the bomb that dropped on the compound in Basra and that plane came from this base where we're at.
BLITZER: All right. Gary Tuchman, thanks for that update. I asked you that follow-up question because when I interviewed Ahmed Chalabi, the Iraqi National Congress leader, earlier in the day, he also raised questions whether Chemical Ali was still alive or whether in fact he was dead. The U.S. and the British military both convinced they got this guy the other day.
Thanks very much, Gary Tuchman.
A historic moment in Iraq, the fall of Baghdad, but is the war over or is the hard work about to start? We'll take a closer look at that.
Plus, Saddam Hussein nowhere to be found. Is he dead or alive? We'll get the latest intelligence.
And a warm welcome for U.S. troops, but are the streets really safe? First, once again these live pictures from Dearborn, Michigan, where Iraqi-Americans are celebrating this historic day.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour: WOLF BLITZER REPORTS from Kuwait City. With correspondents from around the world. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts now.
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN's up-to-the-minute coverage of the war in Iraq.
In just a moment, Baghdad's falling, so where is Saddam Hussein and his henchmen? We'll have the latest U.S. intelligence.
But first for the latest headlines, let's go back to CNN's Heidi Collins in the CNN news room in Atlanta -- Heidi.
(NEWSBREAK)
BLITZER: Let's go back to Baghdad. We saw many scenes like this one earlier today. A man striking a poster of Saddam Hussein with his shoe. That's a high insult. A high insult in Arab culture.
I want to be back on the scene in Baghdad a short while ago. I spoke with Maher Abdallah -- he's a reporter with Al-Jazeera -- about the situation in and the mood in Baghdad right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAHER ABDALLAH, AL-JAZEERA CORRESPONDENT: Well, it depends what street of Baghdad you're talking about. Generally speaking, I think the western part is already under occupation, if that is the right word.
Today what we have witnessed this afternoon, if you like, the invasion, extending to the eastern part of Baghdad, the part of town called Arosafah (ph), but to the north -- a little bit to the north of here there is a town -- a quarter, if you like, by the name of Ashab (ph). We could still hear up to something like an hour ago some tank explosions and some, like, medium-sized machine guns going on.
Generally speaking, the area we are in ever since the Marines came it's a little bit more peaceful. A little bit more quiet. It wasn't so yesterday, but we were full of expectations as to what kind of trouble are we in for tomorrow?
I think everybody's mind is at peace tonight. We feel a little bit safe, especially that this morning we were really worried when we saw the pictures. Our colleagues went to some district where there was a lot of looting, a lot of in-fighting for the looting. So the Marines gave that sense of security at least for the part we are in right now.
BLITZER: What about the Republican Guards, the special Republican Guards, the Saddam Fedayeen? What happened to them? We don't see them anymore.
ABDALLAH: I don't know. We actually never saw them, to be honest with you. We could only hear explosions where everybody was assuming it was them. The western media definitely the American forces played them up a lot. They were talking about the much feared Republican Guard, the much-feared Fedayeen.
Actually, in Baghdad we didn't see them much. There were anti- aircraft machine guns yesterday. There were tank explosions, yes, but we didn't actually see any movement that would indicate the existence of any uniform force that was ready to fight the Americans. That is why I think the process...
BLITZER: Do you think the Iraqi...
ABDALLAH: ... so easily. So smoothly.
BLITZER: Do you believe the Iraqi people are genuinely happy about the fall of Saddam Hussein?
ABDALLAH: Well, the ones I saw this afternoon -- I spent two and a half hours talking about what I was seeing. I think it was a genuine happiness. Not necessarily with Saddam. People have been wanting a change for a long time. The only problem was nobody trusted the United States of America to be the right instrument for that change.
What I think happened today is that people, like, were happy with the change regardless of who did it. You could see there were -- there was a little bit of clapping when the American flag was raised on top of the head of the statues that we saw, but there was a lot more cheering and clapping when the Iraqi -- the old Iraqi flag, may I add, was raised.
I would say generally people wanted change. They were happy that they've got change.
BLITZER: Maher Abdallah of Al-Jazeera. Thanks for spending a few minutes with us. I appreciate it very much.
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BLITZER: And despite today's stunning developments in Baghdad, historic developments in Baghdad, the fate of Saddam Hussein remains very much a mystery.
Our national security correspondent, David Ensor, is joining me now live with the latest on what his sources are saying.
David, tell us.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, even as Saddam Hussein's power seemed to be evaporating, what was left of it, almost overnight, there was still questions about whether he has evaporated. Where is he? And we still don't have the answers.
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ENSOR (voice-over): As the regime appeared to go up in smoke, U.S. officials said its control in Baghdad has disintegrated.
As for Saddam Hussein, officials still don't know his fate.
RUMSFELD: He's either dead or he's incapacitated, or he's healthy and cowering in some tunnel some place, trying to avoid being caught.
KENNETH POLLACK, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: He is still important because there are people who will continue to fight as long as he is alive.
ENSOR: Rumors flew that Saddam might be in the Russian embassy in Baghdad. False, said the Russians and U.S. officials, too.
It seemed clear after meetings at the White House that senior intelligence officials were pleased with the way things are going. But urgent tasks remain, including finding weapons of mass destruction, keeping any of them from moving out of the country. The U.S. is offering rewards and amnesty for help.
U.S. intelligence must also account for all of the members of the regime, the intelligence, the police, the Fedayeen Saddam, that may still be alive. And figure out who in Iraq who can be trusted. It is a mammoth task.
POLLACK: Vet Iraqi personnel, vet Iraqi bureaucrats determine those who really do have enough blood on their hands that they probably should be excluded from a post-war administration and those who can be brought back in and help to set up a new transitional authority to help to administer the country.
ENSOR: Then there are the neighbors to worry about. Secretary Rumsfeld complained about the role of Syria.
RUMSFELD: Senior regime people are moving out of Iraq into Syria. And Syria is continuing to send things into Iraq. We find it notably unhelpful.
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ENSOR: U.S. officials say despite a lot of rumors, they have no solid information that any senior Iraqi officials have entered Syria, though some of their relatives have. Needless to say, U.S. officials are watching that border very closely -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor with the latest on Saddam Hussein. Thanks, David, very much.
It's been a hectic day. A dramatic day, historic I would say, as well, in Baghdad and the capital remains so tense this evening. As soon as something happens there we'll, of course, bring it to you live here on CNN throughout the night.
And we'll show you the sound and the pictures, the most compelling images from today's development. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Different cities, different scenes. This was from Nasiriya in southern Iraq earlier today. People celebrating the fact that that city is in allied hands, following weeks of ferocious battles, three weeks, to be precise.
U.S. and Kurdish forces have won their first joint operation against Iraqi positions in the northern part of the country.
Our Brent Sadler is standing nearby. All of those developments near Kalar, with a CNN exclusive report -- Brent.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I have no FB, what's happened? Someone's speaking?
Thanks, Wolf. Over the past few minutes, tremendous explosions on this sector of the southeast, northern front. Really U.S. special forces directing in, B-52 bombers really pounding front line positions, really to clear the way for further advances south towards Baghdad along a main road.
If we go back a few hours we can see the first joint assault of Iraqi positions by U.S. special forces using a 60 millimeter mortar to throw up a heavy barrage of shells against Iraqi front line position and then really a charge, nothing less than a charge, but Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, moving to storm Iraqi positions just as Iraqis were pulling out, very close to each other. But the Iraqis slipped away under a hail of lead.
Also today as that's been going on, we've seen demonstrations, celebrations, rather, in Erbil and the two other governments in northern Iraq. Iraqi Kurds really responding positively to the scenes we saw in Baghdad with the collapse of the regime, the pulling down of Saddam Hussein's statue and the U.S. tank moved, the Marine moved inside Baghdad.
Spontaneous street demonstrations in the Iraqi Kurdish enclave, the Iraqi Kurdish enclave, of course, having ruled itself for the past 12 years, yet really still living in the shadow of Saddam Hussein's unpredictability.
Iraqi Kurds today on two fronts celebrating in their cities and also pushing forward with American special forces on the ground against the collapsing positions of Iraq's army in the north.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent, you also had some exclusive information on this joint U.S.-Kurdish operation that unfolded today. Briefly tell our viewers about that.
SADLER: Yes, indeed, Wolf. We've seen a pattern over the past three weeks during the war of U.S. close air support being used. B- 52s and F-15E Strike Eagles, aircraft operating from carriers in the eastern Mediterranean, where they're operating across many sectors of the northern front.
But this time was the first time -- and I've been with these special force units in close quarters for the past several days -- first time they were pinpointing positions on the ground, confirming targets and really guiding the Peshmerga, who couldn't wait to really storm those positions themselves, really close quarters fighting -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Brent Sadler with those exclusive reports. Thanks very much, Brent, for that information and for all your good work.
Just about anything could happen in the Iraqi capital tonight. You'll want to stay with us throughout the night, throughout the night for CNN's exclusive live coverage. You'll see whatever happens here first.
Also, what was the reaction at the White House of today's dramatic developments in Baghdad? We'll go live to our John King at the White House, just ahead.
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DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There may well be hard fighting yet ahead. Regime forces are still in control in northern Iraq, In Mosul and Kirkuk and Tikrit.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yet with the caution came a small dose of we told you so.
CHENEY: In the early days of the war, the plan was criticized by some retired military officers embedded in TV studios. But with every day and every advance by our coalition forces, the wisdom of that plan becomes more apparent.
KING: As the troops press on, the administration is accelerating planning for post-war Iraq.
Retired Army General Jay Garner leads the civil authority that will move in soon and run key services until power can be handed over to a new interim Iraqi authority. The administration blue print still has no firm time table for getting the interim authority up and running, but planning meetings in southern Iraq will begin as early as next week, involving a mix of indigenous Iraqis and exiles and dissidents now returning home, with General Tommy Franks in charge of the invitations.
The hope is with Saddam Hussein out of the picture, local leaders will naturally emerge to help shape the new authority.
ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN: The president has very high levels of faith in the ability of the Iraqi people to govern themselves and make these decisions for themselves. KING: Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi is a favorite of many top Bush advisers and will be among those invited to post-war planning sessions, but his complaints that the administration is moving too slowly with reconstruction efforts have annoyed even some of his top administration supporters, and officials stress he is but one of many voices in the post-war political debate.
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KING: We are told before the week is out and perhaps as early as tomorrow the president will lay out his sense of the challenges still ahead. Behind the scenes here there is a palpable sense of vindication, but we also are told that caution is likely to be the public watchword for some time to come -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John King at the White House. Thanks, John, very much.
And do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already? You still have a chance to vote. Go to my Web page: cnn.com/wolf. We'll reveal the results as soon as we come back.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. Bush. We really like Mr. Bush. Mr. Bush OK.
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BLITZER: Some of the more dramatic sights and sounds seen in Baghdad today.
Here's how you're weighing in on "Our Web Question of the Day." Remember we asked you, "Do you believe the United States can declare victory in Iraq already?" Twenty-four percent of you say yes; 76 percent say no.
That's all the time we have today. I'll be back in one hour for two hours of special coverage with Paula Zahn.
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