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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

New Iraq May Still be Dangerous to U.S. Troops

Aired April 17, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN: It's Thursday, April 17, 2003. Hello I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.
The new Iraq may still be dangerous to U.S. troops. In east Baghdad in the dark the Marines are feeling the heat. Troops on patrol came under attack. They shot and killed one man. At least five others were apprehended. The patrol we're showing you is a crackdown on looting. Four men were apprehended there.

West of the city, U.S. troops try to make the situation safer. These pictures show a fire at an ammunition factory. U.S. troops destroyed the weapons.

Now for the latest on the turmoil that still exists in many parts of Baghdad and the efforts to end it and restore order. Let's turn to our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's joining us now live from Baghdad.

Nic ...

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN: Wolf, one of Saddam Hussein's half brothers Basan Ebraheme Hasan Al-Tikriti picked up today by U.S. Special Forces likely to be a very useful trove of information for the coalition at this time. He was once Iraq's U.N. representative to the U.N. in Geneva. That was in 1988 to the late 1990s. He was also widely believed at that time to run Saddam Hussein's international finances, a number of international shell companies, moving funds for the Iraqi leader. He was also in the late 1970s, 1979 to 1983, the head of Iraq's intelligence agencies so he may also have some use there but like many people in Saddam Hussein's family who have been very close with the regime at certain times, at other times falling out of favor. Perhaps the information he has to offer will be timely and useful. Perhaps some of it may be dated but certainly that arrest and the arrest of one of Saddam Hussein's other three half brothers this last week, Whatban (ph), Basan's (ph) brother, will likely begin to complete some of the picture about Saddam Hussein and perhaps what he was planning to do was the war progressed Wolf.

BLITZER: What about the whole nature of the security in Baghdad right now, the looting? Has there been a discernable improvement to security not only for U.S. military personnel but journalists and average Iraqis?

ROBERTSON: The looting is down. There are some police on the streets. Some neighborhoods have their own gunmen out patrolling the streets making them safe they say for the people who live there. Overall yes it's somewhat safer. We were out today. You still find people around who have weapons, people who perhaps are still out trying to find goods to loot at some of the stores and some of the banks. We saw another building, another government building in downtown Baghdad still on fire. Somewhat safer but not entirely safe, Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, joining us live from Baghdad. We'll talk to you again later. Thanks very much.

Ever so slowly U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians are trying to restore power to Baghdad. The capital's lights suddenly flickered off. Iraqis blamed U.S. air strikes. U.S. officials say it was Iraqi sabotage. Each day - as each day passes, tempers grow hotter as residents must resort often times to candlelight. The lack of power also effects fresh water and gasoline supplies and other public services. Many water-pumping stations have generators but not all and large areas in the city still lack running water. That's why this water main break was a boon for those lucky enough to be around it when it happened earlier today.

There are some fresh indications that Saddam Hussein may have survived the early attacks on Baghdad. As U.S. bombs fell on some of his homes and bunkers, did he have a secret safe house?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: While he was wanted and his capital pummeled, was Saddam Hussein alive? The Arab satellite network Al Jazeera suggests he was and was hiding here. Al Jazeera broadcasted pictures today of what it says is a hideaway used by Saddam in the final days of the U.S. led attack on Baghdad. Al Jazeera says this house in a residential section of Baghdad was probably where Saddam made his last speech to the nation and some of his final official decisions. One room with a podium, flag and TV monitor against a blue curtain backdrop does bare resemblance to the place where the Iraqi government claimed Saddam was speaking the night of March 19th. That was the first night of the war when U.S. led forces targeted Saddam in his so- called decapitation strike.

The video shows two rooms with expensive looking couches, Persian rugs, a displayed copy of the Koran (ph). In one of them beside an unmade bed is a military uniform on a coat rack. Al Jazeera says the shoulder badge is of the highest military rank, which Saddam would have worn. We may never know if this was one of Saddam's last hideaways or if this was the broadcast studio in Baghdad of his now well-known information minister. Mohammed Saeed Al Sahaf made a name for himself in the final days of the war by trumpeting great Iraqi military victories even as allied tanks rolled just blocks away. The caretaker says this room featuring posters of Keanu Reeves, the Wayne's World characters and Guns n Roses was the place where the information minister made some of those declarations until early last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RABAH HASSAN, CARETAKER, HIMET STUDIOS (through translator): This is the audio recording studio where Al Sahaf made radio recordings until Tuesday, April 8th. He was very nervous. There is another room upstairs and he kept on going up and down the stairs. He didn't even get a chance to drink his cup of tea while sitting down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Al Sahaf vanished just before the fall of Baghdad and hasn't been seen since. Elsewhere in the Iraqi capital, looters clearly found this train believed to have been built for Saddam Hussein. It's not known whether Saddam even used it since Iraq's rail network is not very expensive.

The United States is coming under increasing pressure meanwhile to justify the war against Iraq by finding the so-called smoking gun, evidence that Iraq really did have banned weapons. That weapons search is now shifting from suspect sites to former Iraqi officials. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

Jamie ...

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN: Well Wolf, so far none of the suspicious material that U.S. troops have encountered have turned out to be weapons of mass destruction. Drums that they thought might contain chemicals have turned out to be pesticides. Some of the rockets that they found that initially tested positive for nerve gas turned out to be false positives and Pentagon officials admit that it's increasingly unlikely that U.S. troops will stumble upon a so called smoking gun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think what will happen is we'll discover people who will tell us where to go find it. It is not like a treasure hunt where you just run around looking everywhere hoping you find something. I just don't think that's going to happen. The inspectors didn't find anything and I doubt that we will. What we will do is find the people who will tell us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon is dispensing 1,000 person survey group they're calling it to concentrate the hunt for weapons of mass destruction on people. This group contains - is made up of civilian scientists and private contractors but it's also very heavy on U.S. government intelligence experts who are specially trained to exploit documents and to interrogate former regime leaders.

Wolf ...

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thanks Jamie very much.

Let's now turn to the hunt for Saddam Hussein and the family members who are being caught in the net. Con Coughlin is the executive editor of the London Sunday Telegraph. His latest book is Saddam King of Terror. He is joining me now live from New York.

Con, thanks very much for joining us. First of all, the rest, if you will, of this second half brother, how significant of a development is it?

CON COUGHLIN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, LONDON SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: I think this is the biggest breakthrough we've had so far in the hunt for Saddam. I'm afraid I'm one of these people who think Saddam is still alive and Basan (ph) was quite close to Saddam. I mean they've had their differences over the years, most notably in 1982 when there was a serious falling out because Saddam refused to let his daughter marry Basan's (ph) son and that's when Basan (ph) basically went into exile in Geneva but the two men made up and as Nic Robertson was saying, Basan (ph) basically took control of the money. He was the bank man for Saddam's regime and there's about $4.5 billion stashed away in these offshore accounts and as we know, Richard Armatige, the Deputy Secretary of State, is trying to track down this money. So capturing Basan (ph) is a really big breakthrough.

BLITZER: Wouldn't you have thought Con that if any of the Iraqi leadership could have escaped to Europe or some place else around the world it would have been Basan (ph)?

COUGHLIN: Yeah. Well, I'm very surprised that Basan (ph) was in Baghdad and it suggests to me that Saddam could be in the Baghdad facility. I mean I've been saying this for some time and people have raised eyebrows but I think a lot of the regime people are lying low in Baghdad. That's the place they know.

BLITZER: Well, why don't you think Saddam is dead? Andy Card, the White House Chief of Staff, suggested publicly last night that he thought Saddam Hussein was dead.

COUGHLIN: Well Wolf, a week ago Centcom told us that Basan (ph) was dead. They told us that Basan (ph) had been killed on his farm outside Baghdad where he was born and today they arrested Basan (ph). We have to remember that there's a lot of mind games going on. Washington told us that Saddam was killed in the first bombing raid, in the early hours of the war. So you know we have to be very careful about this. My sources tell me that Saddam was in an adjoining building to the restaurant where those bombs shortly before the collapse of Baghdad. The Al Jazeera pictures to me have an air of credibility about them and we've also had reports from northern Baghdad that Saddam was seen in a mosque two days after that bombing. So bit by bit we're getting a picture of Saddam alive and in the vicinity of Baghdad and as I said, Basan (ph) was arrested overnight in Baghdad.

BLITZER: Con, you've studied Saddam Hussein for years and years. If it comes down to the fact that he still is some place in Iraq, U.S. coalition forces move to arrest him at some point, would he go or would he kill himself?

COUGHLIN: I think he'd take his own life. I can't see Saddam being taken off to stand trial in Iraq for, you know, for the very long list of crimes that would be put against him but I think Saddam would basically do the same as Adolf Hitler and take his own life.

BLITZER: All right. Con Coughlin who knows a lot about Saddam Hussein, thanks very much for joining us.

COUGHLIN: Pleasure Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you. Hans Blix versus General Tommy Franks, who should be in charge of the weapons hunt in Iraq? We'll have a debate on that when we come back.

Plus, fear of fallout from the war, are Americans any safer today from terrorism? Hear what the man in charge of domestic security has to say.

And Saddam Hussein being sighted perhaps as often as Elvis and UFOs on Iraqi streets. Some Iraqis say he's hiding in another country. We'll once again sort out all of this fact from fiction. Our Nic Robertson is still live in Baghdad. We'll go there. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

President Bush is returning to the scene of bitter fighting over whether to go to war with Iraq, namely the U.N. Security Council. He's urging the council to remove sanctions imposed on Iraq after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990 but the President faces numerous problems including the fact that Saddam Hussein's regime no longer exists.

Here's our Senior U.N. Correspondent, Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN: Still the divisions in the Security Council on Iraq remain and that will be part of the negotiating problem for the road ahead in post war Iraq. Mexico's Ambassador says the dialogue has started.

ADOLFO AGUILAR ZINSER, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We hope that this dialogue will bring about unity in the council and that the United Nations and the Security Council will be able to assume the responsibilities that belong to the United Nations in the reconstructions with unity and consensus in the council.

ROTH: One Security Council Ambassador not from among the permanent five countries says everybody's going to want a piece of the cake especially among the permanent five. One analyst says it'll be the Iraqi people that will really determine what happens in the Security Council.

ED LUCK, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: If they start to rebuild the country, if they start to build a more representative political process and if in fact they accept the coalition's occupation for a while, it is going to be necessary for security then in fact I think most of the Security Council members will line up. Frankly, there's nowhere else for them to go.

ROTH: Also with no place to go, the U.N. weapons inspectors led by Chief Inspector Hans Blix. The U.S. is conducting their own inspections right now on the ground in Iraq. Blix thinks the U.N. could only enhance their efforts.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF UNITED NATIONS WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I have not seen any indication that the U.S. would be ready to accept international verification again though it is true that the credibility of any fines I think would be much better with international inspection. I think we have credibility.

ROTH: Blix reappears before the U.N. Security Council next Tuesday when the diplomats get down to the hard bargaining on inspections and the humanitarian tasks between the U.N. and Iraq.

Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Plenty of Iraqi conventional weapons are turning up almost everyday but where are the weapons of mass destruction that the Bush Administration said was the reason at least in part for going to war? Not one has been found at least yet. Who should look for them, U.S. forces or Hans Blix and his U.N. inspectors? Joining me now to debate this issue, Frank Gaffney. He's the CEO of the Center for Security Policy, a former Assistant Defense Secretary, David Albright a former U.N. Weapons Inspector.

You heard Hans Blix say why not get the inspectors get the job done? They would have the credibility with the rest of the world. If the U.S. does it alone, some will always think the U.S. planted some of those weapons of mass destruction.

FRANK GAFFNEY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: I would find it more credible if somebody with more credibility than Hans Blix were saying the U.N. inspectors have all this credibility. Hans Blix during his role in this process, say nothing of his period before when he was running the International Atomic Energy Agency, was constantly second guessing - I think playing fast and loose is not too strong a term with the facts. He was in many instances pulling his punches and that's not what you want (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) you don't trust him.

GAFFNEY: I don't think his legitimacy or his authority is any better - in fact I think it's worse than that the U.S. government will be coming up with scrupulously looking.

BLITZER: What about that David?

DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER UNITED NATIONS WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, Hans Blix is leaving and I think that he'll have to leave in order for this to work out and - but I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the goal is to get control over whatever weapons of mass destruction Iraq has and the inspectors can provide valuable resources. Certainly they can provide credibility but they can also - they can make the whole process of getting - finding the WMD, rounding up the scientists happen much quicker because we have to remember, whatever weapons of mass destruction Iraq has right now, they're unprotected.

BLITZER: Don't these U.N. inspectors have more direct physical hands on experience looking for this stuff than U.S. officials, U.S. military or civilian officials?

GAFFNEY: I'm not sure how experienced these guys are. Some are clearly more experienced than others. Some have had probably less training than specialists in the U.S. military have. There are 1,000 of them now being dispatched but Wolf, here's the underlying problem. These inspections teams if they are sent out by the U.N. are going to have almost certainly inspectors from France, from Russia, from China, from Germany and perhaps other countries that oppose this action. I'm quite concerned that they may pull their punches too even if Hans Blix isn't running the operation.

BLITZER: He thinks they'd be ...

ALBRIGHT: I would - I would suggest getting to know those people because I can name some from every one of those countries and some of them have been remarkably good, some of the Russians, the Germans and we shouldn't confuse the technical capabilities of the inspectors with some of the statements by their governments.

BLITZER: Well what about - who should be - who should be in charge (INAUDIBLE) who should be in charge of the overall inspections, General Franks or Hans Blix?

ALBRIGHT: I think the reality is General Franks is right now. It's a question of what happens in the future and I would say that both should work over the short to medium term. In the longer term the inspectors will be back in there. I mean it's a dangerous neighborhood. The U.S. isn't going to stay there. We have to make sure that a future Iraqi government whether it's democratic or not does not seek nuclear weapons or ...

BLITZER: Would you be opposed if General Franks still were in charge but bringing in U.N. inspectors and let them help him?

GAFFNEY: I personally would. I think it's just a bad idea because I think what you want is rigorously disciplined operation that is seeking these things out under military control and doing it subject to the same forensic standards we would use in our own court of law, not under U.N. (INAUDIBLE)

ALBRIGHT: (INAUDIBLE) I think it'll take too long and they haven't - they haven't done a very good job so far. I mean (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) a lot of people are wondering why is it so hard to find VX, nerve gas, anthrax? I know it's a big country but a lot of people thought they'd find more in the first month. GAFFNEY: They may well have thought that and they may well have been right to think that. I personally thought Saddam might have used the stuff but what apparently has happened is they have successfully burred the stuff away and it is going to take as Don Rumsfeld said I think earlier in your piece, people telling us where the stuff is and that's one of the other reasons why I think just having (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) some of these Iraqi scientists like Dr. Al Sadi (ph) and others are going to talk?

ALBRIGHT: I think there's several thousand of them and I think they will talk and it's also another reason to bring in the experienced inspectors. They know them. I know several. You know when they're telling the truth. You know what they've said in the past. There's trust that's been built up. I mean the Iraqis want to make sure that they're not going end up in Guatanamo Bay if they turn themselves in.

BLITZER: So they might be more willing to speak to the U.N. inspectors than a U.S. military officer, is that what you're saying?

ALBRIGHT: I think so.

GAFFNEY: I think the U.S. officer is more likely to be able to keep them out of Gauntanamo and what's wrong with the U.N. picture is the trust was misplaced. We need people who are bringing a fresh approach to this and that's what the U.S. military is doing.

BLITZER: One final question, do you think Amar Alsadi (ph), the Chief Science Advisor, former one to Saddam Hussein, knows where the stuff is?

ALBRIGHT: Yes, between him and I'm sorry, Gafar (ph). They know where all the bodies are buried.

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) they have him in custody (INAUDIBLE) all right. We'll see if he does talk and if he leads people. He's continuing to say there's no weapons of mass destruction.

ALBRIGHT: He may want to make a deal.

BLITZER: All right. We'll see. David Albright, Frank Gaffney, as usual thanks very much.

GAFFNEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Here's your turn to weigh in on this war in Iraq. Our web question of the day is this. Who should be in charge of searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the U.S. or the U.N.? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

A new face for the war in Iraq, one that will have Americans on guard. Coming up, bracing for backlash and are we any safer now? A closer look when we return. And with only - within only the past few minutes we've heard directly from the Secretary of State Colin Powell. Who is the Secretary of State speaking out against now? We'll have details. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Secretary of State Colin Powell has just spoken out once again against Syria. Right now it's a diplomatic showdown but will it escalate. We'll have details and why do some Iraqis believe Saddam Hussein actually escaped? We'll return to Baghdad live when Wolf Blitzer Reports continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: And now a look at some of the other striking images from Iraq. This notorious prison near Baghdad was the alleged scene of torture and countless executions. It's been stripped clean by looters but once held as many as 25,000 prisoners, most recently a group of international journalists held for a week at the start of the war.

Not very far away, the recording studio where the former information minister, Mohammed Sayeed Al Sahaf , is said to have made his radio addresses during the final days of the regime. He's not been seen from since, certainly not since the fall of Baghdad hasn't been heard from either.

And U.S. forces are maintaining a heavy presence in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's ancestral hometown. They're frisking men and searching bags carried by women and children. Some Iraqis say the tactics are heavy handed.

The Attorney General John Ashcroft says coalition forces in Iraq received help from Iraqis living in the United States. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena is joining me now live with details.

Kelli ...

KELLI ARENA, CNN: Wolf, the Attorney General and the FBI Director held a news conference today heralding what they called the FBI's success in helping the U.S. military in Iraq. They also talked about the current FBI presence in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Helping to deflect criticism, the U.S. military did not do enough to protect Iraq's antiquities. FBI Director Robert Mueller says his agents are making an all out effort to recover stolen art treasures.

ROBERT MUELLER, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: These steps include sending FBI agents to Iraq to assist with criminal investigations, issuing Interpol alerts to all member nations regarding the potential sale of stolen Iraqi art and artifacts on both the open and the black markets and then assisting with the recovery of any such stolen items.

ARENA: There are also 25 FBI agents on the ground in Iraq going through documents obtained from locations such as the Onsera (ph) Islam terrorist camp looking for leads about future threats to the United States. Agents are also interrogating Iraqi prisoners. The FBI also called attention to the role it played before the war in helping gather intelligence. Agents interviewed 10,000 Iraqis and Iraqi Americans living in the United States.

MUELLER: As a result of these interviews, approximately 250 reports were provided to the United States military to assist in locating weapons production and storage facilities, underground bunkers, fiber optic networks and Iraqi detention and interrogation facilities.

ARENA: Mueller says the interviews went well, resulting in only two official complaints from the Iraqi community, but some Arab- American groups say some Iraqis felt profiled.

NIHAD AWAD COUN, ON AM. ISLAMIC REL.: Ethnic profile, religious profiling never served our country and I'm afraid it will hinder the efforts of the government to build a community (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: That relationship is very important because of the unique help that Muslim and Arab-Americans give the FBI in its fight against terror. On that front, al Qaeda remains a potent threat, but they're also increasingly concerned about the Lebanon-based group Hezbollah.

BLITZER: And that turns the situation to Syria, and Iran two supporters of Hezbollah.

Thank you very much, Kelli Arena.

And we going to have much more coverage of the new Iraq coming up.

For the latest headlines let's go to Arthel Neville in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Arthel.

The world's on the lookout for Saddam Hussein, but he's sighted everywhere on the streets of Baghdad.

Nic Robertson on the Iraqi rumor mill that even has Saddam Hussein living, get this, with President Bush.

And the search for MIA Scott Speicher. Hear what the family is thinking right now.

Plus combating the fear of terrorism, armed pilots training to take matters into their own hands. You'll see it here live on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Order may slowly be taking root in Iraq, but rumors are sprouting up at a light -- at a lightning pace. Some are so outlandish there almost funny, others can complicate seriously U.S. efforts.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, is once again joining us live from Baghdad -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in the last week or so of the war, the coalition tried very hard to silence Iraq's television and radio services because they were disseminating so much adverse publicity, prop propaganda against the coalition to the Iraqi people. But, what is happening now in the absence of that direct information service, rumors just abounding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In Baghdad, one of the hardest habits to break, smoking a traditional Arabic pipe, the Ajami (ph) and gossiping with friends.

"The weirdest rumor" says Wileb (ph) the storekeeper, "is Saddam and his sons went to Syria and then Russia, then Britain.

Ahmed, the coffee shop owner disagrees. "Saddam is with American intelligence, CNN or CIA or whatever," he says.

Rumors to be mulled over, muddled, extended and amplified.

"The Americans want our oil," he says, echoing Saddam's pre-war mantra. But that propaganda pales in comparison with the latest stories.

"I saw it with my own eyes" he said, "the Americans opened the doors of the banks to let the thief goes in." Everyone around seemed to agree.

Another in the crowd desperate to get his voice heard shouts, "a Kuwaiti man with the Americans over opened the safe in the bank."

With little access to hard information, and used to a regular diet of propaganda from the former government's radio and television services, people here appear to be filling the information vacuum now with fears, rather than facts. In a more upscale neighborhood where some normality is returning to the streets, those fears fanned discontent.

"The Americans want the chaos here to continue," he says. "So we can't get it ourselves and they can justify their occupation."

But that isn't all to this particular rumor. Saddam Hussein has been collaborating with the U.S. since 1963 (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a businessman says. It's all a game to destroy the Arabs to benefit Israel. Saddam is in Washington with Bush adds Basim (ph). "It's all a game."

Amidst the anger and frustration though, the knowledge that good information is missing. "We hear that the Americans want to destroy Iraq says Hassan (ph), a civil engineer, we want the Americans to prove to us this is not true."

Perhaps carpenter Hafas (ph) has the attitude most in the west want to hear. "We don't care where Saddam is. All we are concerned about is the future of our country, electricity and water."

For now, however, in the absence of hard facts, Hafas (ph) those like him seem to be in the minority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And getting a new service back is an important issue for the coalition forces at this time. U.S. Marines stationed here at this hotel say something is being worked on. And the commander of aircraft that flies over Baghdad distributing a television service is trying to answer or at least give some information that will perhaps (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some of those concerns. But until the electricity gets switched back on and until Iraqis begin to see their own indigenous radio and television service here, likely some of the rumors will persist -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic, very briefly, the biggest difference, talking to average Iraqis in Baghdad today as opposed to before the war, you spent months and months talking to these people. They were always afraid, obviously, for their lives if they said something wrong to you.

Are they feeling totally comfortable now and just giving their own opinions?

ROBERTSON: It comes out as more anger. They seem to be very comfortable in saying whatever comes to their minds. And it seems to be focused as we were talking about a lot on security, on water and electricity. There seems to be nothing holding them back now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, our man in Baghdad. Thanks very much for joining us.

Now we want to bring you up-to-date on some of the latest developments in Iraq. Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 6:34 a.m., CNN's Rula Amin Baghdad says even though power substations are coming back online, Baghdad's main power grid is still a long way from being restored. She says one main problem is the lack of a central authority to coordinate efforts. The people working to restore electricity are doing it on a volunteer basis.

7:10 a.m., U.S. Central Command says U.S. Special Forces have captured another half-brother of Saddam Hussein. Barzan Ibrahim Hassan Al-Tikriti was on the coalition's most wanted list of Iraqi regime officials.

7:16 a.m., Brigadier General Vincent Brooks says stability in the northern city of Mosul remains uncertain because there are still pockets of violence and lawlessness. According to reports from the scene, just one building is in U.S. control and the area around it is being called a no-man's-land. At least 10 Iraqi civilians have been killed in clashes with U.S. troops in the past two days.

11:04 a.m., CNN's Ben Wedeman reports according to Kurdish leaders, senior members of the former Iraqi government have been spotted in Mosul.

2:30 p.m., FBI Director Robert Mueller says agents are being sent to Iraq to assist with criminal investigations against people who looted museums and other sites. The FBI will assist in the recovery of stolen items. Mueller also says the U.S. has already issued Interpol alerts to all nations regarding artifacts that may be sold on open or black markets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN's Miles O'Brien reporting.

The secretary of state, Colin Powell, has just spoken. We'll bring you his comments right -- right away as soon as we come back.

And he disappeared during the first Gulf War. The navy now says he was captured. The family of this pilot wants more done to find him.

Plus, the first step in a controversial plan to arm airline pilots -- it's getting under way right now. We'll have a live report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Will there be a terror backlash against the United States? Coming up, training to fight terror. How will pilots know when to shoot? You're going to see a live demonstration when WOLF BLITZER REPORTS returns. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Two more casualties of the war in Iraq were buried today at Arlington National Cemetery just outside Washington, D.C. They are Air Force Major Gregory Stone and Marine Corporal Patrick Nixon. The third war casual -- casualty, Army Pilot Eric Talberson (ph) was buried today in Bennington, Vermont.

The family of a navy pilot missing since the first Gulf War thinks U.S. forces in Iraq should be doing more to find him. Navy Captain Scott Speicher's plane was shot down on the first of the 1991 war. He was initially listed as missing in action and later killed in action. But last year, the navy changed his status to missing and captured based on evidence found at the crash site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CINDY LAQUADERA, SPEICHER FAMILY ATTY.: So the United States is very confident that he was alive in -- in Iraqi captivity. They're making some progress. I am here in part to say they I think he should become the priority. That it's more important to search these tunnels and interview these intelligence resources than it is to search for weapons of mass destruction. The question to Saddam Hussein's half brother should be led with the secret prisons as opposed to again, weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In Washington, the Bush administration is continuing to put the spotlight on Syria, making many of the same accusations against that country as it did against Iraq.

We've just obtained an interview with the secretary of state, Colin Powell. Here is part of that interview on "The Newshour With Jim Leher."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Syria has sponsored terrorism over the years. It is considered one of the states that do sponsor terrorism. It's on our list of such states and that's always been a concern to us, especially the support that they provide to Hezbollah.

We have also stated clearly over the years that we believe Syria is developing weapons of mass destruction and we are concerned about especially their chemical weapons program. I think we've highlighted at this particular point in time, however, is to change the situation in the region. We have been successful in Iraq. There's a new dynamic in that part of the world and we wanted to point out strongly to the Syrians that this is a time for you to take another look at your policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: With more on this important story let's go to the State Department. That's where CNN's Andrea Koppel is standing by -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, about 24 hours ago, Secretary Powell, in another television interview with Associated Press had the phones ringing off the hook when he said that he will travel to Syria at some point. He's since clarified those comments to say that no date has been set.

But considering the climate of heated tensions between Washington and Damascus, Secretary Powell's comments certainly cooled speculation that Syria is next on the U.S. military hit-list.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In Damascus, officials warmly welcome the news from Secretary of State Powell that he would soon travel to Syria. But Powell's trip, his first to the Middle East in a year, would be part of a wider regional tour, designed to jumpstart the Israeli- Palestinian peace process.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: As part of a trip like that, we'd also be interested in talking to Syria, the government of Syria about some of these particular issues that we have been pursuing.

KOPPEL: One issue, scornfully dismissed by Syria's foreign minister, that some of Iraq's weapons are now hidden next door in Syria.

FAROUK AL-SHARAA, SYRIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If there were mass destruction weapons inside Iraq, Saddam Hussein would have kept it inside Baghdad in order to use it against the invading forces. He wouldn't have even the slightest stupidity to smuggle it to another country during the war.

KOPPEL: Syria denies U.S. allegations it has its own chemical weapons program. And looking to turn the tables, sponsored a U.N. resolution this week calling for a weapons-free region, a move designed to focus the world's attention on Israel's suspected nuclear weapons program.

In fact, Syria believes recent tough talk from the Bush administration is designed to bully Damascus on behalf of an Israeli agenda. The U.S., says Syria, is a state sponsor of terrorism because it harbors groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and gives Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon free reign to carry out attacks against Israel.

MAMOUN FANDY, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Syria is the last holdout as far as the peace process is concerned. So if -- if -- if Syria is pressured, you know, the Syrians might play on the peace process and not to create obstacles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: In an interview with the news hour with Jim Lehrer this evening, Secretary Powell said that the U.S. plans to release its roadmap for peace between the Israelis and Palestinians "pretty soon" -- Wolf. And he also said that he hoped that that would then lead to a comprehensive settlement for peace between Israel, Syria and Lebanon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I assume it will also lead to a visit to the region by the Secretary of State at that time as well.

Andrea Koppel at the State Department, thanks very much for that report.

Much more coverage coming up -- weapons training for commercial airline pilots. It's the first step towards guns in the cockpit. It's a story that affects everyone who flies, and we'll have a live report and a demonstration as soon as we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A group of airline pilots is spending the week at a federal law enforcement training center in Georgia -- learning about guns. They'll be among the first to carry firearms into the cockpit with them -- certainly a controversial move authorized by the U.S. Congress in the wake of the September 11 hijackings.

Seeing as Patty Davis is joining us now live from Glynco, Georgia, with details -- Patty.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, pretty loud here right now.

Target practice now underway. The first group of pilots -- commercial airline pilots -- firing, as you can see, as close as three yards from their targets. (SHOTS)

Firing so close because that's how close an intruder is going to be if they're attacked in the cockpit. Now this training is tough. Forty-eight hours of intensive target practice, 16,000 rounds fired yesterday alone.

Classroom training and defensive tactics as well. How to stop an attacker before he grabs your weapon. Now this -- (SHOTS)

Wolf, we have been asked not to show the identities of any of these pilots who are taking part in this training, but here's what they had to say about the training earlier today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what we're doing here today is providing that final layer of protection to keeping the airplane from becoming a weapon, and that is by defending the cockpit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's necessary to defend the flight deck and protect my passengers in the aircraft and especially to prevent the aircraft from being used in another 9/11 type event. That would (UNINTELLIGIBLE) force.

DAVIS: Wolf, these pilots -- all volunteers. Nobody has been forced to do any of this training. Now, if they graduate, they will be carrying guns as soon as Sunday in the cockpit. Wolf -- back to you.

BLITZER: Very quickly, Patty. There used to be a fear that these guns would hit the windows, and the cabins would be despressured and the plane could lose altitude.

Are these special kinds of handguns they're using?

DAVIS: Well, these are .40 caliber semi-automatic pistols, and there's a lot of controversy about that. They have to do a test to find out whether or not the guns will actually damage the cockpit. But I don't know the answer to that. I think they're still doing the tests of that at this point -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Patty Davis with an important demonstration for us. Thanks, Patty, very much.

Who should be in charge for searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

You'll still have a chonce to vote. Go to my Web page. We'll have the results of our Web question of the day. That will be revealed in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day.

Who should be in charge of searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

Look at this. 48% of you say the U.S. 52% of you say the U.N. This is not a scientific poll.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night for up-to-the-minute war coverage. A reminder -- you can catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS each weekday, this time, 5 p.m. Eastern.

For the latest, let's hand it to over to my good friend Lou Dobbs -- Lou.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired April 17, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN: It's Thursday, April 17, 2003. Hello I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.
The new Iraq may still be dangerous to U.S. troops. In east Baghdad in the dark the Marines are feeling the heat. Troops on patrol came under attack. They shot and killed one man. At least five others were apprehended. The patrol we're showing you is a crackdown on looting. Four men were apprehended there.

West of the city, U.S. troops try to make the situation safer. These pictures show a fire at an ammunition factory. U.S. troops destroyed the weapons.

Now for the latest on the turmoil that still exists in many parts of Baghdad and the efforts to end it and restore order. Let's turn to our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's joining us now live from Baghdad.

Nic ...

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN: Wolf, one of Saddam Hussein's half brothers Basan Ebraheme Hasan Al-Tikriti picked up today by U.S. Special Forces likely to be a very useful trove of information for the coalition at this time. He was once Iraq's U.N. representative to the U.N. in Geneva. That was in 1988 to the late 1990s. He was also widely believed at that time to run Saddam Hussein's international finances, a number of international shell companies, moving funds for the Iraqi leader. He was also in the late 1970s, 1979 to 1983, the head of Iraq's intelligence agencies so he may also have some use there but like many people in Saddam Hussein's family who have been very close with the regime at certain times, at other times falling out of favor. Perhaps the information he has to offer will be timely and useful. Perhaps some of it may be dated but certainly that arrest and the arrest of one of Saddam Hussein's other three half brothers this last week, Whatban (ph), Basan's (ph) brother, will likely begin to complete some of the picture about Saddam Hussein and perhaps what he was planning to do was the war progressed Wolf.

BLITZER: What about the whole nature of the security in Baghdad right now, the looting? Has there been a discernable improvement to security not only for U.S. military personnel but journalists and average Iraqis?

ROBERTSON: The looting is down. There are some police on the streets. Some neighborhoods have their own gunmen out patrolling the streets making them safe they say for the people who live there. Overall yes it's somewhat safer. We were out today. You still find people around who have weapons, people who perhaps are still out trying to find goods to loot at some of the stores and some of the banks. We saw another building, another government building in downtown Baghdad still on fire. Somewhat safer but not entirely safe, Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, joining us live from Baghdad. We'll talk to you again later. Thanks very much.

Ever so slowly U.S. forces and Iraqi civilians are trying to restore power to Baghdad. The capital's lights suddenly flickered off. Iraqis blamed U.S. air strikes. U.S. officials say it was Iraqi sabotage. Each day - as each day passes, tempers grow hotter as residents must resort often times to candlelight. The lack of power also effects fresh water and gasoline supplies and other public services. Many water-pumping stations have generators but not all and large areas in the city still lack running water. That's why this water main break was a boon for those lucky enough to be around it when it happened earlier today.

There are some fresh indications that Saddam Hussein may have survived the early attacks on Baghdad. As U.S. bombs fell on some of his homes and bunkers, did he have a secret safe house?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: While he was wanted and his capital pummeled, was Saddam Hussein alive? The Arab satellite network Al Jazeera suggests he was and was hiding here. Al Jazeera broadcasted pictures today of what it says is a hideaway used by Saddam in the final days of the U.S. led attack on Baghdad. Al Jazeera says this house in a residential section of Baghdad was probably where Saddam made his last speech to the nation and some of his final official decisions. One room with a podium, flag and TV monitor against a blue curtain backdrop does bare resemblance to the place where the Iraqi government claimed Saddam was speaking the night of March 19th. That was the first night of the war when U.S. led forces targeted Saddam in his so- called decapitation strike.

The video shows two rooms with expensive looking couches, Persian rugs, a displayed copy of the Koran (ph). In one of them beside an unmade bed is a military uniform on a coat rack. Al Jazeera says the shoulder badge is of the highest military rank, which Saddam would have worn. We may never know if this was one of Saddam's last hideaways or if this was the broadcast studio in Baghdad of his now well-known information minister. Mohammed Saeed Al Sahaf made a name for himself in the final days of the war by trumpeting great Iraqi military victories even as allied tanks rolled just blocks away. The caretaker says this room featuring posters of Keanu Reeves, the Wayne's World characters and Guns n Roses was the place where the information minister made some of those declarations until early last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RABAH HASSAN, CARETAKER, HIMET STUDIOS (through translator): This is the audio recording studio where Al Sahaf made radio recordings until Tuesday, April 8th. He was very nervous. There is another room upstairs and he kept on going up and down the stairs. He didn't even get a chance to drink his cup of tea while sitting down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Al Sahaf vanished just before the fall of Baghdad and hasn't been seen since. Elsewhere in the Iraqi capital, looters clearly found this train believed to have been built for Saddam Hussein. It's not known whether Saddam even used it since Iraq's rail network is not very expensive.

The United States is coming under increasing pressure meanwhile to justify the war against Iraq by finding the so-called smoking gun, evidence that Iraq really did have banned weapons. That weapons search is now shifting from suspect sites to former Iraqi officials. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

Jamie ...

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN: Well Wolf, so far none of the suspicious material that U.S. troops have encountered have turned out to be weapons of mass destruction. Drums that they thought might contain chemicals have turned out to be pesticides. Some of the rockets that they found that initially tested positive for nerve gas turned out to be false positives and Pentagon officials admit that it's increasingly unlikely that U.S. troops will stumble upon a so called smoking gun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I think what will happen is we'll discover people who will tell us where to go find it. It is not like a treasure hunt where you just run around looking everywhere hoping you find something. I just don't think that's going to happen. The inspectors didn't find anything and I doubt that we will. What we will do is find the people who will tell us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon is dispensing 1,000 person survey group they're calling it to concentrate the hunt for weapons of mass destruction on people. This group contains - is made up of civilian scientists and private contractors but it's also very heavy on U.S. government intelligence experts who are specially trained to exploit documents and to interrogate former regime leaders.

Wolf ...

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, thanks Jamie very much.

Let's now turn to the hunt for Saddam Hussein and the family members who are being caught in the net. Con Coughlin is the executive editor of the London Sunday Telegraph. His latest book is Saddam King of Terror. He is joining me now live from New York.

Con, thanks very much for joining us. First of all, the rest, if you will, of this second half brother, how significant of a development is it?

CON COUGHLIN, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, LONDON SUNDAY TELEGRAPH: I think this is the biggest breakthrough we've had so far in the hunt for Saddam. I'm afraid I'm one of these people who think Saddam is still alive and Basan (ph) was quite close to Saddam. I mean they've had their differences over the years, most notably in 1982 when there was a serious falling out because Saddam refused to let his daughter marry Basan's (ph) son and that's when Basan (ph) basically went into exile in Geneva but the two men made up and as Nic Robertson was saying, Basan (ph) basically took control of the money. He was the bank man for Saddam's regime and there's about $4.5 billion stashed away in these offshore accounts and as we know, Richard Armatige, the Deputy Secretary of State, is trying to track down this money. So capturing Basan (ph) is a really big breakthrough.

BLITZER: Wouldn't you have thought Con that if any of the Iraqi leadership could have escaped to Europe or some place else around the world it would have been Basan (ph)?

COUGHLIN: Yeah. Well, I'm very surprised that Basan (ph) was in Baghdad and it suggests to me that Saddam could be in the Baghdad facility. I mean I've been saying this for some time and people have raised eyebrows but I think a lot of the regime people are lying low in Baghdad. That's the place they know.

BLITZER: Well, why don't you think Saddam is dead? Andy Card, the White House Chief of Staff, suggested publicly last night that he thought Saddam Hussein was dead.

COUGHLIN: Well Wolf, a week ago Centcom told us that Basan (ph) was dead. They told us that Basan (ph) had been killed on his farm outside Baghdad where he was born and today they arrested Basan (ph). We have to remember that there's a lot of mind games going on. Washington told us that Saddam was killed in the first bombing raid, in the early hours of the war. So you know we have to be very careful about this. My sources tell me that Saddam was in an adjoining building to the restaurant where those bombs shortly before the collapse of Baghdad. The Al Jazeera pictures to me have an air of credibility about them and we've also had reports from northern Baghdad that Saddam was seen in a mosque two days after that bombing. So bit by bit we're getting a picture of Saddam alive and in the vicinity of Baghdad and as I said, Basan (ph) was arrested overnight in Baghdad.

BLITZER: Con, you've studied Saddam Hussein for years and years. If it comes down to the fact that he still is some place in Iraq, U.S. coalition forces move to arrest him at some point, would he go or would he kill himself?

COUGHLIN: I think he'd take his own life. I can't see Saddam being taken off to stand trial in Iraq for, you know, for the very long list of crimes that would be put against him but I think Saddam would basically do the same as Adolf Hitler and take his own life.

BLITZER: All right. Con Coughlin who knows a lot about Saddam Hussein, thanks very much for joining us.

COUGHLIN: Pleasure Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you. Hans Blix versus General Tommy Franks, who should be in charge of the weapons hunt in Iraq? We'll have a debate on that when we come back.

Plus, fear of fallout from the war, are Americans any safer today from terrorism? Hear what the man in charge of domestic security has to say.

And Saddam Hussein being sighted perhaps as often as Elvis and UFOs on Iraqi streets. Some Iraqis say he's hiding in another country. We'll once again sort out all of this fact from fiction. Our Nic Robertson is still live in Baghdad. We'll go there. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

President Bush is returning to the scene of bitter fighting over whether to go to war with Iraq, namely the U.N. Security Council. He's urging the council to remove sanctions imposed on Iraq after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990 but the President faces numerous problems including the fact that Saddam Hussein's regime no longer exists.

Here's our Senior U.N. Correspondent, Richard Roth.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN: Still the divisions in the Security Council on Iraq remain and that will be part of the negotiating problem for the road ahead in post war Iraq. Mexico's Ambassador says the dialogue has started.

ADOLFO AGUILAR ZINSER, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We hope that this dialogue will bring about unity in the council and that the United Nations and the Security Council will be able to assume the responsibilities that belong to the United Nations in the reconstructions with unity and consensus in the council.

ROTH: One Security Council Ambassador not from among the permanent five countries says everybody's going to want a piece of the cake especially among the permanent five. One analyst says it'll be the Iraqi people that will really determine what happens in the Security Council.

ED LUCK, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: If they start to rebuild the country, if they start to build a more representative political process and if in fact they accept the coalition's occupation for a while, it is going to be necessary for security then in fact I think most of the Security Council members will line up. Frankly, there's nowhere else for them to go.

ROTH: Also with no place to go, the U.N. weapons inspectors led by Chief Inspector Hans Blix. The U.S. is conducting their own inspections right now on the ground in Iraq. Blix thinks the U.N. could only enhance their efforts.

HANS BLIX, CHIEF UNITED NATIONS WEAPONS INSPECTOR: I have not seen any indication that the U.S. would be ready to accept international verification again though it is true that the credibility of any fines I think would be much better with international inspection. I think we have credibility.

ROTH: Blix reappears before the U.N. Security Council next Tuesday when the diplomats get down to the hard bargaining on inspections and the humanitarian tasks between the U.N. and Iraq.

Richard Roth, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Plenty of Iraqi conventional weapons are turning up almost everyday but where are the weapons of mass destruction that the Bush Administration said was the reason at least in part for going to war? Not one has been found at least yet. Who should look for them, U.S. forces or Hans Blix and his U.N. inspectors? Joining me now to debate this issue, Frank Gaffney. He's the CEO of the Center for Security Policy, a former Assistant Defense Secretary, David Albright a former U.N. Weapons Inspector.

You heard Hans Blix say why not get the inspectors get the job done? They would have the credibility with the rest of the world. If the U.S. does it alone, some will always think the U.S. planted some of those weapons of mass destruction.

FRANK GAFFNEY, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: I would find it more credible if somebody with more credibility than Hans Blix were saying the U.N. inspectors have all this credibility. Hans Blix during his role in this process, say nothing of his period before when he was running the International Atomic Energy Agency, was constantly second guessing - I think playing fast and loose is not too strong a term with the facts. He was in many instances pulling his punches and that's not what you want (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) you don't trust him.

GAFFNEY: I don't think his legitimacy or his authority is any better - in fact I think it's worse than that the U.S. government will be coming up with scrupulously looking.

BLITZER: What about that David?

DAVID ALBRIGHT, FORMER UNITED NATIONS WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Well, Hans Blix is leaving and I think that he'll have to leave in order for this to work out and - but I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the goal is to get control over whatever weapons of mass destruction Iraq has and the inspectors can provide valuable resources. Certainly they can provide credibility but they can also - they can make the whole process of getting - finding the WMD, rounding up the scientists happen much quicker because we have to remember, whatever weapons of mass destruction Iraq has right now, they're unprotected.

BLITZER: Don't these U.N. inspectors have more direct physical hands on experience looking for this stuff than U.S. officials, U.S. military or civilian officials?

GAFFNEY: I'm not sure how experienced these guys are. Some are clearly more experienced than others. Some have had probably less training than specialists in the U.S. military have. There are 1,000 of them now being dispatched but Wolf, here's the underlying problem. These inspections teams if they are sent out by the U.N. are going to have almost certainly inspectors from France, from Russia, from China, from Germany and perhaps other countries that oppose this action. I'm quite concerned that they may pull their punches too even if Hans Blix isn't running the operation.

BLITZER: He thinks they'd be ...

ALBRIGHT: I would - I would suggest getting to know those people because I can name some from every one of those countries and some of them have been remarkably good, some of the Russians, the Germans and we shouldn't confuse the technical capabilities of the inspectors with some of the statements by their governments.

BLITZER: Well what about - who should be - who should be in charge (INAUDIBLE) who should be in charge of the overall inspections, General Franks or Hans Blix?

ALBRIGHT: I think the reality is General Franks is right now. It's a question of what happens in the future and I would say that both should work over the short to medium term. In the longer term the inspectors will be back in there. I mean it's a dangerous neighborhood. The U.S. isn't going to stay there. We have to make sure that a future Iraqi government whether it's democratic or not does not seek nuclear weapons or ...

BLITZER: Would you be opposed if General Franks still were in charge but bringing in U.N. inspectors and let them help him?

GAFFNEY: I personally would. I think it's just a bad idea because I think what you want is rigorously disciplined operation that is seeking these things out under military control and doing it subject to the same forensic standards we would use in our own court of law, not under U.N. (INAUDIBLE)

ALBRIGHT: (INAUDIBLE) I think it'll take too long and they haven't - they haven't done a very good job so far. I mean (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) a lot of people are wondering why is it so hard to find VX, nerve gas, anthrax? I know it's a big country but a lot of people thought they'd find more in the first month. GAFFNEY: They may well have thought that and they may well have been right to think that. I personally thought Saddam might have used the stuff but what apparently has happened is they have successfully burred the stuff away and it is going to take as Don Rumsfeld said I think earlier in your piece, people telling us where the stuff is and that's one of the other reasons why I think just having (INAUDIBLE)

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) some of these Iraqi scientists like Dr. Al Sadi (ph) and others are going to talk?

ALBRIGHT: I think there's several thousand of them and I think they will talk and it's also another reason to bring in the experienced inspectors. They know them. I know several. You know when they're telling the truth. You know what they've said in the past. There's trust that's been built up. I mean the Iraqis want to make sure that they're not going end up in Guatanamo Bay if they turn themselves in.

BLITZER: So they might be more willing to speak to the U.N. inspectors than a U.S. military officer, is that what you're saying?

ALBRIGHT: I think so.

GAFFNEY: I think the U.S. officer is more likely to be able to keep them out of Gauntanamo and what's wrong with the U.N. picture is the trust was misplaced. We need people who are bringing a fresh approach to this and that's what the U.S. military is doing.

BLITZER: One final question, do you think Amar Alsadi (ph), the Chief Science Advisor, former one to Saddam Hussein, knows where the stuff is?

ALBRIGHT: Yes, between him and I'm sorry, Gafar (ph). They know where all the bodies are buried.

BLITZER: (INAUDIBLE) they have him in custody (INAUDIBLE) all right. We'll see if he does talk and if he leads people. He's continuing to say there's no weapons of mass destruction.

ALBRIGHT: He may want to make a deal.

BLITZER: All right. We'll see. David Albright, Frank Gaffney, as usual thanks very much.

GAFFNEY: Thank you.

BLITZER: Here's your turn to weigh in on this war in Iraq. Our web question of the day is this. Who should be in charge of searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the U.S. or the U.N.? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Please vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, I'd like to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

A new face for the war in Iraq, one that will have Americans on guard. Coming up, bracing for backlash and are we any safer now? A closer look when we return. And with only - within only the past few minutes we've heard directly from the Secretary of State Colin Powell. Who is the Secretary of State speaking out against now? We'll have details. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Secretary of State Colin Powell has just spoken out once again against Syria. Right now it's a diplomatic showdown but will it escalate. We'll have details and why do some Iraqis believe Saddam Hussein actually escaped? We'll return to Baghdad live when Wolf Blitzer Reports continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: And now a look at some of the other striking images from Iraq. This notorious prison near Baghdad was the alleged scene of torture and countless executions. It's been stripped clean by looters but once held as many as 25,000 prisoners, most recently a group of international journalists held for a week at the start of the war.

Not very far away, the recording studio where the former information minister, Mohammed Sayeed Al Sahaf , is said to have made his radio addresses during the final days of the regime. He's not been seen from since, certainly not since the fall of Baghdad hasn't been heard from either.

And U.S. forces are maintaining a heavy presence in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's ancestral hometown. They're frisking men and searching bags carried by women and children. Some Iraqis say the tactics are heavy handed.

The Attorney General John Ashcroft says coalition forces in Iraq received help from Iraqis living in the United States. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena is joining me now live with details.

Kelli ...

KELLI ARENA, CNN: Wolf, the Attorney General and the FBI Director held a news conference today heralding what they called the FBI's success in helping the U.S. military in Iraq. They also talked about the current FBI presence in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Helping to deflect criticism, the U.S. military did not do enough to protect Iraq's antiquities. FBI Director Robert Mueller says his agents are making an all out effort to recover stolen art treasures.

ROBERT MUELLER, DIRECTOR, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: These steps include sending FBI agents to Iraq to assist with criminal investigations, issuing Interpol alerts to all member nations regarding the potential sale of stolen Iraqi art and artifacts on both the open and the black markets and then assisting with the recovery of any such stolen items.

ARENA: There are also 25 FBI agents on the ground in Iraq going through documents obtained from locations such as the Onsera (ph) Islam terrorist camp looking for leads about future threats to the United States. Agents are also interrogating Iraqi prisoners. The FBI also called attention to the role it played before the war in helping gather intelligence. Agents interviewed 10,000 Iraqis and Iraqi Americans living in the United States.

MUELLER: As a result of these interviews, approximately 250 reports were provided to the United States military to assist in locating weapons production and storage facilities, underground bunkers, fiber optic networks and Iraqi detention and interrogation facilities.

ARENA: Mueller says the interviews went well, resulting in only two official complaints from the Iraqi community, but some Arab- American groups say some Iraqis felt profiled.

NIHAD AWAD COUN, ON AM. ISLAMIC REL.: Ethnic profile, religious profiling never served our country and I'm afraid it will hinder the efforts of the government to build a community (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: That relationship is very important because of the unique help that Muslim and Arab-Americans give the FBI in its fight against terror. On that front, al Qaeda remains a potent threat, but they're also increasingly concerned about the Lebanon-based group Hezbollah.

BLITZER: And that turns the situation to Syria, and Iran two supporters of Hezbollah.

Thank you very much, Kelli Arena.

And we going to have much more coverage of the new Iraq coming up.

For the latest headlines let's go to Arthel Neville in the CNN newsroom in Atlanta.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Arthel.

The world's on the lookout for Saddam Hussein, but he's sighted everywhere on the streets of Baghdad.

Nic Robertson on the Iraqi rumor mill that even has Saddam Hussein living, get this, with President Bush.

And the search for MIA Scott Speicher. Hear what the family is thinking right now.

Plus combating the fear of terrorism, armed pilots training to take matters into their own hands. You'll see it here live on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Order may slowly be taking root in Iraq, but rumors are sprouting up at a light -- at a lightning pace. Some are so outlandish there almost funny, others can complicate seriously U.S. efforts.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, is once again joining us live from Baghdad -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, in the last week or so of the war, the coalition tried very hard to silence Iraq's television and radio services because they were disseminating so much adverse publicity, prop propaganda against the coalition to the Iraqi people. But, what is happening now in the absence of that direct information service, rumors just abounding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): In Baghdad, one of the hardest habits to break, smoking a traditional Arabic pipe, the Ajami (ph) and gossiping with friends.

"The weirdest rumor" says Wileb (ph) the storekeeper, "is Saddam and his sons went to Syria and then Russia, then Britain.

Ahmed, the coffee shop owner disagrees. "Saddam is with American intelligence, CNN or CIA or whatever," he says.

Rumors to be mulled over, muddled, extended and amplified.

"The Americans want our oil," he says, echoing Saddam's pre-war mantra. But that propaganda pales in comparison with the latest stories.

"I saw it with my own eyes" he said, "the Americans opened the doors of the banks to let the thief goes in." Everyone around seemed to agree.

Another in the crowd desperate to get his voice heard shouts, "a Kuwaiti man with the Americans over opened the safe in the bank."

With little access to hard information, and used to a regular diet of propaganda from the former government's radio and television services, people here appear to be filling the information vacuum now with fears, rather than facts. In a more upscale neighborhood where some normality is returning to the streets, those fears fanned discontent.

"The Americans want the chaos here to continue," he says. "So we can't get it ourselves and they can justify their occupation."

But that isn't all to this particular rumor. Saddam Hussein has been collaborating with the U.S. since 1963 (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a businessman says. It's all a game to destroy the Arabs to benefit Israel. Saddam is in Washington with Bush adds Basim (ph). "It's all a game."

Amidst the anger and frustration though, the knowledge that good information is missing. "We hear that the Americans want to destroy Iraq says Hassan (ph), a civil engineer, we want the Americans to prove to us this is not true."

Perhaps carpenter Hafas (ph) has the attitude most in the west want to hear. "We don't care where Saddam is. All we are concerned about is the future of our country, electricity and water."

For now, however, in the absence of hard facts, Hafas (ph) those like him seem to be in the minority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And getting a new service back is an important issue for the coalition forces at this time. U.S. Marines stationed here at this hotel say something is being worked on. And the commander of aircraft that flies over Baghdad distributing a television service is trying to answer or at least give some information that will perhaps (UNINTELLIGIBLE) some of those concerns. But until the electricity gets switched back on and until Iraqis begin to see their own indigenous radio and television service here, likely some of the rumors will persist -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic, very briefly, the biggest difference, talking to average Iraqis in Baghdad today as opposed to before the war, you spent months and months talking to these people. They were always afraid, obviously, for their lives if they said something wrong to you.

Are they feeling totally comfortable now and just giving their own opinions?

ROBERTSON: It comes out as more anger. They seem to be very comfortable in saying whatever comes to their minds. And it seems to be focused as we were talking about a lot on security, on water and electricity. There seems to be nothing holding them back now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson, our man in Baghdad. Thanks very much for joining us.

Now we want to bring you up-to-date on some of the latest developments in Iraq. Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 6:34 a.m., CNN's Rula Amin Baghdad says even though power substations are coming back online, Baghdad's main power grid is still a long way from being restored. She says one main problem is the lack of a central authority to coordinate efforts. The people working to restore electricity are doing it on a volunteer basis.

7:10 a.m., U.S. Central Command says U.S. Special Forces have captured another half-brother of Saddam Hussein. Barzan Ibrahim Hassan Al-Tikriti was on the coalition's most wanted list of Iraqi regime officials.

7:16 a.m., Brigadier General Vincent Brooks says stability in the northern city of Mosul remains uncertain because there are still pockets of violence and lawlessness. According to reports from the scene, just one building is in U.S. control and the area around it is being called a no-man's-land. At least 10 Iraqi civilians have been killed in clashes with U.S. troops in the past two days.

11:04 a.m., CNN's Ben Wedeman reports according to Kurdish leaders, senior members of the former Iraqi government have been spotted in Mosul.

2:30 p.m., FBI Director Robert Mueller says agents are being sent to Iraq to assist with criminal investigations against people who looted museums and other sites. The FBI will assist in the recovery of stolen items. Mueller also says the U.S. has already issued Interpol alerts to all nations regarding artifacts that may be sold on open or black markets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN's Miles O'Brien reporting.

The secretary of state, Colin Powell, has just spoken. We'll bring you his comments right -- right away as soon as we come back.

And he disappeared during the first Gulf War. The navy now says he was captured. The family of this pilot wants more done to find him.

Plus, the first step in a controversial plan to arm airline pilots -- it's getting under way right now. We'll have a live report.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Will there be a terror backlash against the United States? Coming up, training to fight terror. How will pilots know when to shoot? You're going to see a live demonstration when WOLF BLITZER REPORTS returns. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Two more casualties of the war in Iraq were buried today at Arlington National Cemetery just outside Washington, D.C. They are Air Force Major Gregory Stone and Marine Corporal Patrick Nixon. The third war casual -- casualty, Army Pilot Eric Talberson (ph) was buried today in Bennington, Vermont.

The family of a navy pilot missing since the first Gulf War thinks U.S. forces in Iraq should be doing more to find him. Navy Captain Scott Speicher's plane was shot down on the first of the 1991 war. He was initially listed as missing in action and later killed in action. But last year, the navy changed his status to missing and captured based on evidence found at the crash site.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CINDY LAQUADERA, SPEICHER FAMILY ATTY.: So the United States is very confident that he was alive in -- in Iraqi captivity. They're making some progress. I am here in part to say they I think he should become the priority. That it's more important to search these tunnels and interview these intelligence resources than it is to search for weapons of mass destruction. The question to Saddam Hussein's half brother should be led with the secret prisons as opposed to again, weapons of mass destruction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: In Washington, the Bush administration is continuing to put the spotlight on Syria, making many of the same accusations against that country as it did against Iraq.

We've just obtained an interview with the secretary of state, Colin Powell. Here is part of that interview on "The Newshour With Jim Leher."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: Syria has sponsored terrorism over the years. It is considered one of the states that do sponsor terrorism. It's on our list of such states and that's always been a concern to us, especially the support that they provide to Hezbollah.

We have also stated clearly over the years that we believe Syria is developing weapons of mass destruction and we are concerned about especially their chemical weapons program. I think we've highlighted at this particular point in time, however, is to change the situation in the region. We have been successful in Iraq. There's a new dynamic in that part of the world and we wanted to point out strongly to the Syrians that this is a time for you to take another look at your policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: With more on this important story let's go to the State Department. That's where CNN's Andrea Koppel is standing by -- Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, about 24 hours ago, Secretary Powell, in another television interview with Associated Press had the phones ringing off the hook when he said that he will travel to Syria at some point. He's since clarified those comments to say that no date has been set.

But considering the climate of heated tensions between Washington and Damascus, Secretary Powell's comments certainly cooled speculation that Syria is next on the U.S. military hit-list.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In Damascus, officials warmly welcome the news from Secretary of State Powell that he would soon travel to Syria. But Powell's trip, his first to the Middle East in a year, would be part of a wider regional tour, designed to jumpstart the Israeli- Palestinian peace process.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: As part of a trip like that, we'd also be interested in talking to Syria, the government of Syria about some of these particular issues that we have been pursuing.

KOPPEL: One issue, scornfully dismissed by Syria's foreign minister, that some of Iraq's weapons are now hidden next door in Syria.

FAROUK AL-SHARAA, SYRIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: If there were mass destruction weapons inside Iraq, Saddam Hussein would have kept it inside Baghdad in order to use it against the invading forces. He wouldn't have even the slightest stupidity to smuggle it to another country during the war.

KOPPEL: Syria denies U.S. allegations it has its own chemical weapons program. And looking to turn the tables, sponsored a U.N. resolution this week calling for a weapons-free region, a move designed to focus the world's attention on Israel's suspected nuclear weapons program.

In fact, Syria believes recent tough talk from the Bush administration is designed to bully Damascus on behalf of an Israeli agenda. The U.S., says Syria, is a state sponsor of terrorism because it harbors groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad and gives Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon free reign to carry out attacks against Israel.

MAMOUN FANDY, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Syria is the last holdout as far as the peace process is concerned. So if -- if -- if Syria is pressured, you know, the Syrians might play on the peace process and not to create obstacles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: In an interview with the news hour with Jim Lehrer this evening, Secretary Powell said that the U.S. plans to release its roadmap for peace between the Israelis and Palestinians "pretty soon" -- Wolf. And he also said that he hoped that that would then lead to a comprehensive settlement for peace between Israel, Syria and Lebanon -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I assume it will also lead to a visit to the region by the Secretary of State at that time as well.

Andrea Koppel at the State Department, thanks very much for that report.

Much more coverage coming up -- weapons training for commercial airline pilots. It's the first step towards guns in the cockpit. It's a story that affects everyone who flies, and we'll have a live report and a demonstration as soon as we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A group of airline pilots is spending the week at a federal law enforcement training center in Georgia -- learning about guns. They'll be among the first to carry firearms into the cockpit with them -- certainly a controversial move authorized by the U.S. Congress in the wake of the September 11 hijackings.

Seeing as Patty Davis is joining us now live from Glynco, Georgia, with details -- Patty.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, pretty loud here right now.

Target practice now underway. The first group of pilots -- commercial airline pilots -- firing, as you can see, as close as three yards from their targets. (SHOTS)

Firing so close because that's how close an intruder is going to be if they're attacked in the cockpit. Now this training is tough. Forty-eight hours of intensive target practice, 16,000 rounds fired yesterday alone.

Classroom training and defensive tactics as well. How to stop an attacker before he grabs your weapon. Now this -- (SHOTS)

Wolf, we have been asked not to show the identities of any of these pilots who are taking part in this training, but here's what they had to say about the training earlier today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what we're doing here today is providing that final layer of protection to keeping the airplane from becoming a weapon, and that is by defending the cockpit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's necessary to defend the flight deck and protect my passengers in the aircraft and especially to prevent the aircraft from being used in another 9/11 type event. That would (UNINTELLIGIBLE) force.

DAVIS: Wolf, these pilots -- all volunteers. Nobody has been forced to do any of this training. Now, if they graduate, they will be carrying guns as soon as Sunday in the cockpit. Wolf -- back to you.

BLITZER: Very quickly, Patty. There used to be a fear that these guns would hit the windows, and the cabins would be despressured and the plane could lose altitude.

Are these special kinds of handguns they're using?

DAVIS: Well, these are .40 caliber semi-automatic pistols, and there's a lot of controversy about that. They have to do a test to find out whether or not the guns will actually damage the cockpit. But I don't know the answer to that. I think they're still doing the tests of that at this point -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Patty Davis with an important demonstration for us. Thanks, Patty, very much.

Who should be in charge for searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

You'll still have a chonce to vote. Go to my Web page. We'll have the results of our Web question of the day. That will be revealed in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our Web question of the day.

Who should be in charge of searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

Look at this. 48% of you say the U.S. 52% of you say the U.N. This is not a scientific poll.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night for up-to-the-minute war coverage. A reminder -- you can catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS each weekday, this time, 5 p.m. Eastern.

For the latest, let's hand it to over to my good friend Lou Dobbs -- Lou.

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