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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Deadly Suicide Bombing in Middle East Threatens Peace Process

Aired May 19, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, GUEST HOST: It is Monday, May 19. Hello from the CNN center in Atlanta. I'm Miles O'Brien in for Wolf Blitzer who is off today.
Another deadly suicide bomb attack in Middle East to tell you about. Today's blast at a crowded shopping mall in northern Israel the fifth such attack sense Saturday.

Kelly Wallace is in Afula, the site of today's bombing.

Kelly, what's the latest?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israeli security sources and Palestinian sources are telling us the bomber was a 19-year-old woman from a village near Jenin on the West Bank, just about 15 miles from here. And it all unfolded right here, right here at the entrance to the shopping mall around 5:30 this afternoon. But what has become an all too familiar ritual here, Israeli emergency workers and volunteers quickly working to clear the entire area of debris, of blood and, yes, of bodies and body parts, to try and return the situation to normal as quickly as possible. We are told that the suicide bomber came here this afternoon and was trying to get inside the mall when a male security guard started checking her out at which point she blew herself up, killing three Israelis. And an owner of a restaurant here who arrived on the scene a short time before the explosion said he still can't believe what happened here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... can do things like this. To see the man in the eyes before you blow himself and you take him with you. I saw pieces of legs here. In my car this is the paper that was in the car there was blood on it. Pieces of woman or man on the car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And two radical Palestinian groups have claimed responsibility for this attack. The Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, that's the armed off shoot link to Yasser Arafat Fatah movement. Many officials, Israeli officials believing the groups are trying to derail the peace process and send a message to Palestinian Prime Minister Abbas. Israeli officials are saying the time is now for the new prime minister, Abbas to take steps now reign in the Palestinian groups. But the Palestinian position is the Israelis need to take a step. They need to accept and start implementing the road map and pulling Israeli forces out of Palestinian towns before Abbas will have the political standing to stand up to these groups an try and get them to stop attacks like the one we saw here tonight -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Kelly Wallace in northern Israel, thank you very much. Now to the White House where the president hasn't put the road map away yet. But he does admits it is a bumpy road that lies ahead. CNN White House correspondent Chris Burns is there.

Hello, Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Miles.

That road map is barely been three weeks, not even three weeks out there on the table and it has been hit by setbacks after setbacks. Secretary of State Colin Powell having gone to the region, hadn't made any progress. Israeli and Palestinian officials met together no progress there. The only progress we see is on the violent side. President Bush says he maintains his resolve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS (voice-over): Another terrorist bombing puts yet another deadly pothole in President Bush's road map to peace. The president passionately asserts he remains undeterred as he hosts an ally in his war on terror, Philippine President Arroyo.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The road map still stands. The vision two of states existing side by side in peace is a real vision and one that I'll work toward. But we got a lot of work to do, to convince all of us who care about peace to step up and fight off terror, to cut off the money and to find these people and bring them to justice.

BURNS: An obvious challenge to Mahmoud Abbas to try to quell the militants before Mr. Bush invites him to the White House. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon postponed his White House visit as a result of the latest attacks. Mr. Bush has to try to break a vicious cycle.

GEORGE MITCHELL, FORMER U.S. ENVOY TO MIDDLE EAST: It is a chicken and egg situation, of course. The Palestinians can't crack down on violence until they know that something will follow that, and Israelis can't take any steps until they know that -- that there is going to be a crackdown on violence. And it's going to be up to the U.S. to work them through that.

BURNS: Amid a wave of bombings, Mr. Bush's initial message is to battle the militants but also to keep one's eye on the horizon.

BUSH: We're still in the road to peace. It is just going to be a bumpy road.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS: It may go in circles unless President Bush can persuade both sides to engage in confidence building measures. The Palestinians to reign in the militants and the Israeli's to ease the plight of the Palestinians -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Chris Burns at the White House. Thank you very much.

Now here is your turn to weigh in on this story.

Our web question of the day for you, should President Bush pressure the Israelis and the Palestinians to accept a peace agreement?

We'll have the results a little later in the broadcast. We invite you to vote at cnn.com/wolf.

Staying on the deadly terrorist trail for a moment, investigations continue in northern Africa and the Persian Gulf. Terrorists attack last week killed 29 people in Morocco and 25 people in Saudi Arabia.

CNN's senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh.

But before we go to her, we have a bit of breaking news and for that we turn to CNN's Jamie McIntyre who joins us live from the pentagon with word of a helicopter crash in Iraq.

Hello, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, we only have initial reports that the point. But it appears a U.S. Marine CH-46 Sea Night helicopter, a twin rotor, has crashed in Iraq near the city of Karbala. According to initial reports, the helicopter with a small number of U.S. personnel on board apparently crashed in a water way. It is not believed that this was the result of hostile fire. Although they still only have very little preliminary reports. A key question unanswered, how many people on board the helicopter, how many casualties. We don't know at this time. We can just tell you that the CH-46 Sea Night apparently did crash, a result of an accident in Iraq about eight hours or so ago from now -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jamie, we know that is a medium helicopter, goes back to the mid '60s, Vietnam era, was supposed to be replaced now by the Osprey. Of course that's a program that has a whole separate story too it. But as a result, a lot of aging aircraft out there, aren't there?

MCINTYRE: There are. And the CH-46 is scheduled to be replaced by something, if not the V-22 Osprey, then some other kind of transport. Of course, the safety record for the helicopters is pretty good. It all depends on maintenance. They need a lot of maintenance. They're expensive to operate. However, they've been a work horse of the U.S. Marine Corps fleet for some time. And the CH-46 is a troop transport helicopter but at this point, we're given to believe there were not a large number of Marines on board. We'll just have to wait for the reports to come in.

O'BRIEN: All right, we'll check in with you as soon as you have something for us. CNN's Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon for us. And as we told you just a moment ago we're staying on that story of terrorism.

For that we have two reports for you from our senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar who is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh, but we begin our story in Morocco with CNN's Jim Bittermann.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here at the Casa (UNINTELLIGIBLE) where most of those died in the attacks on Friday night, the investigation continues. The government is a little contradictory about exactly who is responsible. They began the weekend within hours of the attacks by saying international terrorists were responsible. Then they said all of the 14 people involved were Moroccans. Now they seem to be trying to square the circle by saying these may have been Moroccans trained abroad.

Another thing that is come up here is there are some links being made to a shadowy group called Salafia Jihadia (ph). They arrested the leader of this group back in March. He expressed this sympathy for Osama bin Laden. So there are some philosophical links to the al Qaeda network if not some direct links.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Casablanca.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHEILA MCVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Sheila McVicar in Riyadh with the latest on the investigation into last week's bombing. Saudi officials say they have four men in custody who they say have prior knowledge of the attacks so they did not participate in them. Saudi officials are also linking those four men to al Qaeda and if that were proven to be true, it would be one of the strongest and clearest links to emerge so far of al Qaeda involvement in last week's triple attacks. In addition, U.S. Government sources and Saudi sources say that an investigation is under way into whether or not National Guard soldiers sold their weapons for cash to members of al Qaeda. Saudi sources say that some of the weapons recovered in a stash of weapon found in early may did appear to originate with the National Guard. An investigation is under way. U.S. sources say it is a long-standing problem the Saudis may now be willing to deal with.

In one other note from Saudi Arabia today, a gunman tried to crash his car into a barricade at the U.S. consulate at Darwan (ph), Saudi Arabia. He has been arrested. No one is hurt and he is currently in Saudi custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That from Sheila MacVicar in Riyadh.

The search for evidence in the Laci Peterson murder case. Also, why is the woman who admitted having an affair with Scott Peterson back in the news? We'll take you live to California for the latest on that story.

Plus, the fate of a New York man accused of training at an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. Is he guilty?

And a miniseries about Hitler's rise to power makes its debut. We'll talk to the manager of a TV station who won't air it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: One of the most visible workers at the White House is leaving.

Also, rush to raid: why U.S. forces went on the hunt in Baghdad.

Those stories coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures, San Francisco Bay, where you are witnessing the fourth day of search for more clues into the case of Laci Peterson. New developments on another front as well to tell you about.

CNN's Rusty Dornin in joins us live from Richmond, California, with the latest.

Hello, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the divers have been in the water for about seven hours today, searching and there have been two side scanning sonar systems that have been in use. But usually about this time of the afternoon, the wind comes up. the conditions get very choppy. We know one of the devices we see are going back into port. So we don't know how much longer the divers that you see out there now are going to be there.

But earlier today they did make a find. We have no idea if it has any significance but they pulled something up out of the water that they thought was of interest, something black, which perhaps -- like a cloth. They took it to the back of the boat and put it in some kind of bag. Could be an evidence bag, perhaps it's just a disposal bag. But it might be something they're going to be taking a look at later.

Meantime, just about an hour ago, there was a press conference in Los Angeles with Gloria Allred, the attorney, where she announced she was representing Amber Frey. As you remember, Amber Frey is the young woman who stepped forward in January and admitted she'd had an affair with Scott Peterson in November and December, that she had no that he was married.

Amber Frey made a statement at this press conference. She did open up by saying they she expressed her profound sympathies for Laci Peterson's family and she went on to say she does not want to talk to anyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER FREY, SCOTT PETERSON'S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: I expect that I will be asked to testify in this case and I am prepared to do so. I don't think it's appropriate to talk about what might be contained in my testimony prior to me being called to the witness stand.

Until that time, I just want to lead a normal life and regain my privacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Allred is very concerned that her reputation will be attacked by the defense, which happens in cases like this. She said she will do everything she can to protect Amber Frey's reputation and just to make sure that the truth prevails.

Back here on the bay, as we said, the boat is still out there and from what we understand from some sheriff's deputies in Marin County, that they've at least dedicated men and equipment at least through Friday and Saturday -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rusty Dornin, Richmond, California, thank you very much.

A controversial bill on Capitol Hill is being renamed after Laci and Connor Peterson, her unborn son. If passed, it would be the first federal law giving a fetus legal rights separate from its mother. Join Wolf for the debate tomorrow at noon Eastern right here on CNN.

Forty-eight hours of terror in the Middle East. Can the road blocks on the map to peace be overcome? Congressman Robert Wexler and James Zogby of the Arab-American institute will join me in a debate. That lies just ahead.

After years of living with abuse and in desolation, a Native American group finds hope in a new home.

And a miniseries about Hitler debuts. He was a dictator who killed millions of people. Is that why a manager at one TV station won't air the series?

But first, you've been out this weekend, so here's our "Weekend Snapshot."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Family, friends and fans remembered country music legend June Carter Cash in a public funeral service. Cash died Thursday of complications from heart surgery. She was 73 years old.

Former President Gerald Ford is recovering at home after being hospitalized for dizziness. Family members say the 89-year-old became ill while playing golf in hot weather.

Another milestone for Pope John Paul II: his 83rd birthday. He celebrated by canonizing four new Catholic saints.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Santos turning the Preakness into a run away.

O'BRIEN: Controversial Kentucky Derby winner Funny Cide is quickly collecting the jewels of the Triple Crown. The horse won the Preakness Saturday and is set to run in next month's Belmont Stakes.

At the annual Bay to Breakers race, it isn't about the win or the place, but the show. Thousands don costumes for the trot through San Francisco. Kenyan James Koskei actually ran the race and won for the third straight year.

And the lights went out for one of Broadway's brightest stars. "Les Miserables" ended its 16-year run on Broadway yesterday. It was one of the most successful musicals in history, seen by more than 9 million people.

(SINGING)

O'BRIEN: And that's our "Weekend Snapshot."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. The White House recently restated President Bush's support for renewing a ban on certain semiautomatic weapons. The ban has been in place since '94, but is set to expire next year, unless Congress renews it.

Recent signals that the GOP leadership might not bring the renewal up for consideration and will let the ban expire have rekindled the fires of that debate. On this program on Thursday of last week, we aired a live demonstration CNN set up with law enforcement officials of a banned semiautomatic rifle and its legal counterpart. We reviewed that demonstration, and one on another CNN program, and decided that a more detailed report could better explain this complex issue.

Here is CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a semiautomatic firearm. It instantly self-loads and fires one bullet for each trigger pull. The 1994 Crime Control Act says it is unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon. The law defines a semiautomatic assault weapon by name and description, listing 19 specific firearms by name that are illegal.

The law also bans certain rifles, pistols and shotguns by description, as well as large capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. The law is very specific. For a semiautomatic rifle to be banned, it must be able to use a detachable magazine and have at least two of the following features: A flash suppressor, a bayonet mount, a pistol grip, a folding or telescoping stock, or a grenade launcher.

Gary Reno (ph), a retired 30-year police officer and assistant chief in Oakland Park, Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's examine the banned weapon.

ZARRELLA: ... explained the difference between a banned AR-15 and its legal clone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flash suppressor, bayonet log, high capacity magazine, over 10 rounds, pistol grip and a telescoping rear stock.

ZARRELLA (on camera): And the legal weapon doesn't have those features, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't have any of those features. Does not have a flash suppressor, does not have a bayonet log, has a legal 10- round magazine. Does have the pistol grip, but it has no other features so it makes it a legal firearm, and has a solid rear stock.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Pro-ban advocates say each of these features would make the weapons more deadly, but anti-ban supporters say those features are only cosmetic and don't contribute to and increase in crime. With only one of the listed features, the gun is legal. And without those features, experts say the guns are identical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's exactly the same gun.

ZARRELLA (on camera): And the same firepower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Same firepower, same bullet, you have to squeeze the trigger once to make a bullet go down the barrel.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In fact, if you fire the same caliber and type bullets from the two guns, you get the same impact.

Here is a .223 caliber bullet fired from a banned AR-15 rifle. Now, the legal version of that rifle.

The smaller hole made by the second gun has nothing to do with the gun or ammunition. The shooter just hit the second target more times in the same place.

Both sides cited Justice Department study about the impact of the law as proof of their argument. Those who oppose the ban say the study shows the ban has had no impact on the reduction of crime and that the answer is to enforce the laws already on the books.

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXEC. VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: What stops crime is every time a violent felon touches a gun, a violent drug dealer, a violent criminal, use the existing federal law, prosecute him 100 percent, confront the criminal directly, and take him off the street and put him in jail.

ZARRELLA: Supporters of the ban instead say the study shows a decline in the amount of crime committed with these weapons.

REP. CAROLYN MCCARTHY (D), NEW YORK: I'm sure the American people do not want to go back to the day of allowing AK-47s back on the streets, or even the newer models that are the Buschmeister (ph) that were used in the D.C. sniping killings last year.

ZARRELLA: Gun control advocates are working with some members of Congress on not only extending the assault weapon ban in 2004, but introducing new legislation to vastly expand the number of weapons banned. Gun advocates and their supporters in Congress argue this and any future bans are an unconstitutional violation of the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: So is the U.S. exerting too much pressure or not enough on the Israelis and Palestinians as the Middle East again spins into a cycle of violence? Congressman Robert Wexler and Jim Zogby of the Arab-American Institute will join me in a debate in just a few moments.

Also, a while back we showed you disturbing images of drug abuse and depression among Native Americans in an isolated Canadian village. Well, we have an important update to share with you. Stay with us for that as well.

Plus, a network miniseries about Hitler has at least one TV executive saying "not on my station." We'll speak with him in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to CNN's WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. I'm Miles O'Brien. Wolf is off today.

Coming up on the heels of more terror, two men with different appearance -- opinions I should say -- share what it takes to bring peace to the Middle East. I'll speak with Congressman Robert Wexler and Arab-American Institute founder, James Zogby.

(NEWSBREAK)

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

O'BRIEN: More now on the wave of terror attacks targeting Israelis, but also forming roadblocks on the roadmap to peace, to say the least.

What do the two sides need to get around them?

Congressman Robert Wexler, a Democrat from Florida, and James Zogby, Founder of the Arab-American Institute join me both from Washington.

Mr. Zogby, let's begin with you. What could be done to stop these suicide bombings? Because until they stop, it seems as if any sort of dialogue is not going to happen.

JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Well, it is true, but the issue here is a complex one because there's a cycle of violence and it's deep and it's taking tolls on both sides.

You know, in the last two-month period in each two-week segment, more than three dozen Palestinians were killed by Israelis and daily life on the West Bank is a nightmare.

For Abu Mazen, the new Palestinian prime minister, to be able to take effective steps, he needs to have more authority, the kind of authority that President Arafat didn't have. Palestinian police forces being dismantled by the Israeli, as has the Palestinian governance, the ability to govern in their territory.

Seventy percent of the population is unemployed and sixty percent are right now below the poverty level. It is a horrific situation. The bush administration has been clear that things must happen to improve the daily life of Palestinians so that Abu Mazen will have the authority to move forward and to take effective measures. That has not been done. It seems to get worse, not better.

O'BRIEN: Congressman Wexler, whenever we get into this discussion it gets into chicken and egg questions as to which goes first, Catch 22's, synchronicity (ph), whatever you want to call it.

The one issue that is worth exploring, though, is in allowing the talks to be derailed, doesn't Ariel Sharon, in effect, give the suicide bombers sort of veto to the whole process?

REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Well, you can look at it that way but I think the more constructive way to look at it, quite frankly, is that no country negotiates because of terrorism.

The United States never would have negotiated with al Qaeda after September 11. We're not asking Saudi Arabia to negotiate with al Qaeda after this week's bombing. We're not going to ask Morocco to negotiate with whoever blew up the several places in Morocco in the last couple of weeks.

The point is the Palestinians have an obligation to perform. Their obligation is to minimize, if not totally end, terror. Unfortunately, it's not George Bush's fault. It's not Ariel Sharon's fault. Right now you have Yasser Arafat working to a certain degree in cahoots now with Hamas, Hezbollah. Unfortunately, there are too many Palestinian interests that are look to undermine Abu Mazen.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Zogby...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That's a good point. I mean, over the years... (CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ...these revolving door prisons and the terrorists...

ZOGBY: Well, you know, listen, that's simply not true, Miles. The fact is is that Yasser Arafat is not the source of the problem here.

Congressman is right to some small degrees. Two groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, are part of the problem and some other splinter groups as well. But the fact is that you cannot crack down on this problem without giving the authority, the Palestinian authority, the tools. They don't have a security apparatus right now and they don't have the ability as a governance to say to their own people, look at the benefits of us cracking down. That's why the Palestinian population right now is not interested in a crackdown or in a civil war.

O'BRIEN: Congressman Wexler....

ZOGBY: What -- what -- what Sharon has done is unleashed a bloodbath on the Palestinians. We're only seeing one side of that story. We're seeing the Israelis who are killed and it is condemnable. And the bastards who do this thing are evil because their violence will not end the occupation.

But the violence from the Israeli side will not create more security either. And that is all around.

O'BRIEN: Isn't it difficult for the Palestinians to see the carrot when the compound that Yasser Arafat operates out of literally lies in rubble and there's talk of perhaps exiling him through all of this. That doesn't really lead them to believe there's any sort of incentive, does it?

WEXLER: I think it's a false argument, quite frankly.

The president of the United States, President Bush, from the Rose Garden and then on subsequent speeches, has laid out a road map plan, which at the end creates a two-state solution whereby the Palestinian people would get the state that they justly deserve.

But in order to get that state, they have a performance obligation and that obligation is to end terror. They cannot expect to get a state and at the same time engage in an operation of terror continuously on the Israelis. It is an unreasonable request to ask the Israeli people to negotiate, to make concessions while they are continuing to incur the wrath of terror. No rational country would do that.

ZOGBY: But Congressman, you're not negotiating with the terrorists. You're negotiating with the Palestinian authority. You're not negotiating with Hamas or Islamic Jihad. You're negotiating with those who, as Prime Minister Rabin said ,and I think correctly said, you negotiate despite the terror and you fight terror even while you continue to negotiate peace. O'BRIEN: All right.

ZOGBY: This government in Israel has taken a different direction. It is building settlements, confiscating land, demolishing houses and killing people and at the same time stopping negotiations. That's not the road to peace.

WEXLER: We have a new prime minister of the Palestinian authority that in two weeks' time has been undermined by his own people. Not by Ariel Sharon, not by George Bush, by his own people. It's time for the Palestinian people to take control of their own destiny, which is something they have refused to do for decades.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quickly, gentlemen, and I'll start with you, Congressman. Is the road map leading toward a few bumps, as the president suggests, or are we at a dead end?

Congressman Wexler, you first.

WEXLER: There should never be a conclusion that it's a dead end. But it is performance that is required and unfortunately, again, the last two days is a stark example of the failure of the Palestinian authority to end violence and therefore they are refusing to perform.

O'BRIEN: Jim Zogby.

ZOGBY: The president has to be able to be tough on both sides and up until now there has been an asymmetry. We're tough on the Palestinians but Ariel Sharon literally has had his way with the Palestinian people. And the signs are there, clearly on the ground. People are suffering on both sides. But we've got to be tough with both sides and up to date, we haven't been.

O'BRIEN: All right. James Zogby and Robert Wexler, thank you both very much for being with us.

WEXLER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Will a change in location help a Native American in the battle against drug abuse, isolation and depression? We'll have an update on the group when we come back.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: After years of living in icy desolation and battling drug abuse, a Native American group finds hope in a new home. The Innu tribe of Labrador, Canada is moving from Davis Inlet to the mainland. CNN's Gary Tuchman explains why their move is more than just a change in location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 26 below zero Fahrenheit here in Davis Inlet in the northern reaches of Canada. And that's the high for the day. As the real cold arrives, residents pack up as they begin an exodus.

SIMEON TSHAKAPESH, TRIBAL LEADER: When you look at the real picture, I think it's -- we're on the verge of extinction, I think.

TUCHMAN: They are the Innu of Labrador, a 650-member aboriginal community with unique language and culture, who live in isolation, abject poverty. They're now hoping to escape decades of despair.

In a previous visit here, we saw many young people sniffing gasoline and rubber cement. Alcoholism among adults runs rampant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm drunk. And I feel good right now.

TUCHMAN: And abuse is also prevalent. This couple had been drinking. The woman is holding a log. Many blame the situation here on the Canadian government, which convinced these nomadic people to settle here in the 1960s. This is Christina.

(on camera): Why do you sniff rubber cement?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I like it.

TUCHMAN: How come?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is getting me high.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): The federal government has responded by moving the Innu again, but this time to a modern new town, built at taxpayer expense of 160 million Canadian dollars.

AL GARMAN, HEALTH CANADA: It took many years, generations to reach the point where we are now. It will take equally long I would say in order to reach a point where they have a stable society, they can deal with life where they are in the kind of circumstances they're in.

TUCHMAN: Yet the Innu are hopeful. That's why they're packing their snowmobiles for the 30-minute ride across the tundra to their new home of Napashish (ph). There are eight people in the Poker (ph) family. And they're packing up in their old home. It is cold and cluttered inside. Six people share this tiny dilapidated bedroom.

(on camera): Why don't you want to stay here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

TUCHMAN: But this place is the past. The future is in a house that would fit in in most suburban neighborhoods.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never dreamed it would be like this, but this is beautiful.

TUCHMAN: With a large master bedroom, two other bedrooms, and reliable heat and plumbing.

(on camera): What do you think of this kitchen? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's too big.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): And Christina, the teenager we saw sniffing the rubber cement back in 2001 is also in a new home.

(on camera): Do you like it here? Better than Davis Inlet?

(voice-over): Christina and many other Innu teenagers have been treated for substance abuse by the government. She won't tell us if the treatment worked.

(on camera): It is expected that by this summer the last residents near Davis Inlet will leave and be moved to their new community. This ramshackle outpost will then officially no longer be on the map.

We haven't met anyone yet who will shed a tear.

(voice-over): But while they're hopeful their lives will change for the better, the Innu people are well aware that even with their new home, they have a long way to go.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Labrador, Canada.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: A network miniseries about the rise of Adolf Hitler is shedding new light on the little known part of the story, but there is one TV executive worried about the message it may send to some viewers. We'll speak with him when we return. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Blasted by some critics before it even hit TV screens across the country, the miniseries "Hitler: the Rise of Evil" had its debut last night. Reviews appeared to be mixed, but the dust over the controversial CBS production has yet to settle.

Dale Remy, general manager of the Texas CBS affiliate KZTV is refusing to air the show. He joins us in Corpus Christi, and with us also is Ken Jacobson of the Anti-Defamation League, which initially was very critical of the program but has changed its tune. I want to start with Mr. Remmy. Why did you decide to pull the plug on the Hitler series?

DALE REMY, GENERAL MANAGER, KZTV: Well, it is an important distinction, point of fact, Miles, we didn't refuse to air the program. We refused to air it during its prime-time window. We had offered to air it later night. We just felt it was inappropriate for a family audience.

O'BRIEN: All right. And so is it airing later at night, by the way?

REMY: No, CBS took its option to clear the program on another alternate outlet here in our market, another television station. O'BRIEN: So in lieu of "Hitler" you're airing "Superman" or "Naked Gun 2 1/2" or something like that.

That's correct.

O'BRIEN: What were you most concerned about in airing it during that day part? Who were you concerned about this program getting to?

REMY: Well, I was concerned that it is not a documentary, it is a theatrical presentation, a dramatization with great creative license taken throughout its story line that I felt humanized Adolph Hitler and I didn't want to put that in front of families, young kids. I'm concerned about the Nazi agenda and I'm concerned that making Hitler a relatable character, a likable theatrical character is mistake. I wasn't comfortable with it.

We have a statement from a spokesperson for CBS which we would like to share with you. Chris Endor, says this, "We respect the station a right to determine what is appropriate to broadcast in their local market. However, this was clearly an isolated situation. We certainly stand behind the quality of the mini-series, which received support from prominent Jewish leaders such as the Anti-Defamation League."

Which brings us, of course to Mr. Jacobson. You initially had some reservations about this program. But you and the ADL changed your mind.

KEN JACOBSON, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Before we had seen it all, we had concerns about any program, just like Mr. Remy that might glamorize Hitler, rationalize his activities, personalize it in that way. We then had a chance to view the production and in fact we were pleasantly surprised. In fact it didn't fall into any of the traps. It did not glamorize him. It didn't trivialize him. It spoke to the potency of evil and the fragility of democracy. And we think actually it is a very good learning tool for a lot of Americans, particularly young ones who haven't been involved and know about the issue.

O'BRIEN: You don't believe in any way this encourages evil or glorifies what Hitler did?

JACOBSON: To the contrary. We had concerns before we had seen it, especially with a lot of talk about emphasizing his young years and obviously a child is a child, so there was a possibility. But in fact it is clear from the very outset that this person embodied evil. He was a real human being and that makes it even stronger. And it also demonstrates how good people fail to stand up early enough when they in fact knew what this man was about. And so I think it has a particular resonance because it keels with the period leading up to the worst events and it shows that from an early period in the 20s it was clear what Hitler was about.

Mr. Remy, when saw that program, you didn't see the same educational opportunity that Mr. Jacobson saw and if so, why not?

REMY: I think an educational program would be as such. It wouldn't be put into the wraps of entertainment. I'd also like point that although I requested -- discussed with CBS an opportunity to view the program in its entirety before making my decision final, it -- they were unable provide that for me. So, I did not have the advantage of that only having seen the clips and the overall synopsis of the series. I had to base my decision based on that.

I would also point out not everybody seize the same program the same way. I think when you look at the mainstream, you look at educated people who understand and are sensitive and can make an educated and informed analysis of what they're viewing. And some people will watch the same program and become inspired, agitated or any of those things.

O'BRIEN: But is that your responsibility as a station manager?

REMY: Well as a broadcaster it is absolutely my responsibility to put what I think is a responsible product on the air with my viewing audience. I have to be aware that it is a broadcast property that I'm on. It's not cable. It is not pay-per-view. I could tell you that I've been doing this for 20 years, and this is the first time I've ever exercised the option of declining to run in pattern a prime time program from any network I've been involved with. So...

O'BRIEN: Mr. Jacobson -- I'm sorry finish your last point.

REMY: It is certainly no -- the program is well done, beautifully acted, well produced. But I think again problematic in the humanization of Adolph Hitler.

O'BRIEN: Would you have made a different decision if you had seen the whole thing?

REMY: I can't say that because I haven't yet. And it hasn't all aired yet. What I saw last night would not have changed my mind.

O'BRIEN: OK. Mr. Jacobson, wouldn't it be best to just let Hitler be, leave it lean not treat it in this subject in any way, shape or form.

JACOBSON: Well, again we had concerns from the outset. But the truth is it depends how it was done. There was no effort to rationalize, to justify. And it is always a very delicate balance between -- you want to make him not into a character but into a person, that to show people that evil is possible and in fact that I believe was done in this production. Don't forget when the movie "Holocaust," appeared on television in the United States 20 years ago it really opened a large American audience to the history of that terrible, terrible period in way.

And I think the fact that they were very careful in this production, the fact that as I said it showed many aspects that really a lot of folks don't really know about, not only the strength of the evil, but the fact that it existed within his mind and his publications, et cetera, for a long time before that. And the fact how fragile democracy is, that the failure of good people to stand up and the institutions to stand up really easily led to this terrible, terrible situation. So I think it has real value. And I think whatever concerns we had, we believe that the efforts by the producers to do a good solid job really outweighs that.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that. We're out of time unfortunately.

Ken Jacobson, Dale Remy, we thank you for being with us on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS today.

Our hot web question of the day, "Should President Bush pressure the Israelis and Palestinians to accept the peace agreement. We invite you to vote now. Cnn.com/wolf is the place, the results when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Now here is how you're weighing in on our web question of the day. Should President Bush pressure the Israelis and Palestinians to accept the peace agreement. 60 percent of you say, yes, 40 percent of you say, no. As we always tell you this is not a scientific poll.

Time new for the headlines making news at this hour.

Israel is hit with its fifth suicide bombing in 48 hours. The latest one happened in a mall in the city of Afula where three people were killed, 47 wounded. Palestinian sources say a 19-year-old woman carried out the attack.

Two radical Islamic groups are claiming responsibility. U.S. and Saudi investigators are looking into whether an al Qaeda weapons cache came from the Saudi National Guard. The weapons were seized during a May 6 raid on an al Qaeda safe house. Authorities say three of 19 people wanted for questioning went on to take part in the Riyadh suicide bombings.

This year's hurricane season could be a busy one. NOAA forecasters predict between 11 and 15 tropical storms, up to nine of those, they say, could become hurricanes. Hurricane season lasts from June 1 to November 30.

You can always watch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS week days this time 5:00 Eastern. Wolf, will be back tomorrow. I'm Miles O'Brien.

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Aired May 19, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, GUEST HOST: It is Monday, May 19. Hello from the CNN center in Atlanta. I'm Miles O'Brien in for Wolf Blitzer who is off today.
Another deadly suicide bomb attack in Middle East to tell you about. Today's blast at a crowded shopping mall in northern Israel the fifth such attack sense Saturday.

Kelly Wallace is in Afula, the site of today's bombing.

Kelly, what's the latest?

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Israeli security sources and Palestinian sources are telling us the bomber was a 19-year-old woman from a village near Jenin on the West Bank, just about 15 miles from here. And it all unfolded right here, right here at the entrance to the shopping mall around 5:30 this afternoon. But what has become an all too familiar ritual here, Israeli emergency workers and volunteers quickly working to clear the entire area of debris, of blood and, yes, of bodies and body parts, to try and return the situation to normal as quickly as possible. We are told that the suicide bomber came here this afternoon and was trying to get inside the mall when a male security guard started checking her out at which point she blew herself up, killing three Israelis. And an owner of a restaurant here who arrived on the scene a short time before the explosion said he still can't believe what happened here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... can do things like this. To see the man in the eyes before you blow himself and you take him with you. I saw pieces of legs here. In my car this is the paper that was in the car there was blood on it. Pieces of woman or man on the car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And two radical Palestinian groups have claimed responsibility for this attack. The Islamic Jihad and the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, that's the armed off shoot link to Yasser Arafat Fatah movement. Many officials, Israeli officials believing the groups are trying to derail the peace process and send a message to Palestinian Prime Minister Abbas. Israeli officials are saying the time is now for the new prime minister, Abbas to take steps now reign in the Palestinian groups. But the Palestinian position is the Israelis need to take a step. They need to accept and start implementing the road map and pulling Israeli forces out of Palestinian towns before Abbas will have the political standing to stand up to these groups an try and get them to stop attacks like the one we saw here tonight -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Kelly Wallace in northern Israel, thank you very much. Now to the White House where the president hasn't put the road map away yet. But he does admits it is a bumpy road that lies ahead. CNN White House correspondent Chris Burns is there.

Hello, Chris.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Miles.

That road map is barely been three weeks, not even three weeks out there on the table and it has been hit by setbacks after setbacks. Secretary of State Colin Powell having gone to the region, hadn't made any progress. Israeli and Palestinian officials met together no progress there. The only progress we see is on the violent side. President Bush says he maintains his resolve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS (voice-over): Another terrorist bombing puts yet another deadly pothole in President Bush's road map to peace. The president passionately asserts he remains undeterred as he hosts an ally in his war on terror, Philippine President Arroyo.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The road map still stands. The vision two of states existing side by side in peace is a real vision and one that I'll work toward. But we got a lot of work to do, to convince all of us who care about peace to step up and fight off terror, to cut off the money and to find these people and bring them to justice.

BURNS: An obvious challenge to Mahmoud Abbas to try to quell the militants before Mr. Bush invites him to the White House. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon postponed his White House visit as a result of the latest attacks. Mr. Bush has to try to break a vicious cycle.

GEORGE MITCHELL, FORMER U.S. ENVOY TO MIDDLE EAST: It is a chicken and egg situation, of course. The Palestinians can't crack down on violence until they know that something will follow that, and Israelis can't take any steps until they know that -- that there is going to be a crackdown on violence. And it's going to be up to the U.S. to work them through that.

BURNS: Amid a wave of bombings, Mr. Bush's initial message is to battle the militants but also to keep one's eye on the horizon.

BUSH: We're still in the road to peace. It is just going to be a bumpy road.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNS: It may go in circles unless President Bush can persuade both sides to engage in confidence building measures. The Palestinians to reign in the militants and the Israeli's to ease the plight of the Palestinians -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Chris Burns at the White House. Thank you very much.

Now here is your turn to weigh in on this story.

Our web question of the day for you, should President Bush pressure the Israelis and the Palestinians to accept a peace agreement?

We'll have the results a little later in the broadcast. We invite you to vote at cnn.com/wolf.

Staying on the deadly terrorist trail for a moment, investigations continue in northern Africa and the Persian Gulf. Terrorists attack last week killed 29 people in Morocco and 25 people in Saudi Arabia.

CNN's senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh.

But before we go to her, we have a bit of breaking news and for that we turn to CNN's Jamie McIntyre who joins us live from the pentagon with word of a helicopter crash in Iraq.

Hello, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, we only have initial reports that the point. But it appears a U.S. Marine CH-46 Sea Night helicopter, a twin rotor, has crashed in Iraq near the city of Karbala. According to initial reports, the helicopter with a small number of U.S. personnel on board apparently crashed in a water way. It is not believed that this was the result of hostile fire. Although they still only have very little preliminary reports. A key question unanswered, how many people on board the helicopter, how many casualties. We don't know at this time. We can just tell you that the CH-46 Sea Night apparently did crash, a result of an accident in Iraq about eight hours or so ago from now -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Jamie, we know that is a medium helicopter, goes back to the mid '60s, Vietnam era, was supposed to be replaced now by the Osprey. Of course that's a program that has a whole separate story too it. But as a result, a lot of aging aircraft out there, aren't there?

MCINTYRE: There are. And the CH-46 is scheduled to be replaced by something, if not the V-22 Osprey, then some other kind of transport. Of course, the safety record for the helicopters is pretty good. It all depends on maintenance. They need a lot of maintenance. They're expensive to operate. However, they've been a work horse of the U.S. Marine Corps fleet for some time. And the CH-46 is a troop transport helicopter but at this point, we're given to believe there were not a large number of Marines on board. We'll just have to wait for the reports to come in.

O'BRIEN: All right, we'll check in with you as soon as you have something for us. CNN's Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon for us. And as we told you just a moment ago we're staying on that story of terrorism.

For that we have two reports for you from our senior international correspondent Sheila MacVicar who is in the Saudi capital of Riyadh, but we begin our story in Morocco with CNN's Jim Bittermann.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Here at the Casa (UNINTELLIGIBLE) where most of those died in the attacks on Friday night, the investigation continues. The government is a little contradictory about exactly who is responsible. They began the weekend within hours of the attacks by saying international terrorists were responsible. Then they said all of the 14 people involved were Moroccans. Now they seem to be trying to square the circle by saying these may have been Moroccans trained abroad.

Another thing that is come up here is there are some links being made to a shadowy group called Salafia Jihadia (ph). They arrested the leader of this group back in March. He expressed this sympathy for Osama bin Laden. So there are some philosophical links to the al Qaeda network if not some direct links.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Casablanca.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHEILA MCVICAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Sheila McVicar in Riyadh with the latest on the investigation into last week's bombing. Saudi officials say they have four men in custody who they say have prior knowledge of the attacks so they did not participate in them. Saudi officials are also linking those four men to al Qaeda and if that were proven to be true, it would be one of the strongest and clearest links to emerge so far of al Qaeda involvement in last week's triple attacks. In addition, U.S. Government sources and Saudi sources say that an investigation is under way into whether or not National Guard soldiers sold their weapons for cash to members of al Qaeda. Saudi sources say that some of the weapons recovered in a stash of weapon found in early may did appear to originate with the National Guard. An investigation is under way. U.S. sources say it is a long-standing problem the Saudis may now be willing to deal with.

In one other note from Saudi Arabia today, a gunman tried to crash his car into a barricade at the U.S. consulate at Darwan (ph), Saudi Arabia. He has been arrested. No one is hurt and he is currently in Saudi custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That from Sheila MacVicar in Riyadh.

The search for evidence in the Laci Peterson murder case. Also, why is the woman who admitted having an affair with Scott Peterson back in the news? We'll take you live to California for the latest on that story.

Plus, the fate of a New York man accused of training at an al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan. Is he guilty?

And a miniseries about Hitler's rise to power makes its debut. We'll talk to the manager of a TV station who won't air it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: One of the most visible workers at the White House is leaving.

Also, rush to raid: why U.S. forces went on the hunt in Baghdad.

Those stories coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures, San Francisco Bay, where you are witnessing the fourth day of search for more clues into the case of Laci Peterson. New developments on another front as well to tell you about.

CNN's Rusty Dornin in joins us live from Richmond, California, with the latest.

Hello, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, the divers have been in the water for about seven hours today, searching and there have been two side scanning sonar systems that have been in use. But usually about this time of the afternoon, the wind comes up. the conditions get very choppy. We know one of the devices we see are going back into port. So we don't know how much longer the divers that you see out there now are going to be there.

But earlier today they did make a find. We have no idea if it has any significance but they pulled something up out of the water that they thought was of interest, something black, which perhaps -- like a cloth. They took it to the back of the boat and put it in some kind of bag. Could be an evidence bag, perhaps it's just a disposal bag. But it might be something they're going to be taking a look at later.

Meantime, just about an hour ago, there was a press conference in Los Angeles with Gloria Allred, the attorney, where she announced she was representing Amber Frey. As you remember, Amber Frey is the young woman who stepped forward in January and admitted she'd had an affair with Scott Peterson in November and December, that she had no that he was married.

Amber Frey made a statement at this press conference. She did open up by saying they she expressed her profound sympathies for Laci Peterson's family and she went on to say she does not want to talk to anyone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBER FREY, SCOTT PETERSON'S FORMER GIRLFRIEND: I expect that I will be asked to testify in this case and I am prepared to do so. I don't think it's appropriate to talk about what might be contained in my testimony prior to me being called to the witness stand.

Until that time, I just want to lead a normal life and regain my privacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Allred is very concerned that her reputation will be attacked by the defense, which happens in cases like this. She said she will do everything she can to protect Amber Frey's reputation and just to make sure that the truth prevails.

Back here on the bay, as we said, the boat is still out there and from what we understand from some sheriff's deputies in Marin County, that they've at least dedicated men and equipment at least through Friday and Saturday -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Rusty Dornin, Richmond, California, thank you very much.

A controversial bill on Capitol Hill is being renamed after Laci and Connor Peterson, her unborn son. If passed, it would be the first federal law giving a fetus legal rights separate from its mother. Join Wolf for the debate tomorrow at noon Eastern right here on CNN.

Forty-eight hours of terror in the Middle East. Can the road blocks on the map to peace be overcome? Congressman Robert Wexler and James Zogby of the Arab-American institute will join me in a debate. That lies just ahead.

After years of living with abuse and in desolation, a Native American group finds hope in a new home.

And a miniseries about Hitler debuts. He was a dictator who killed millions of people. Is that why a manager at one TV station won't air the series?

But first, you've been out this weekend, so here's our "Weekend Snapshot."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): Family, friends and fans remembered country music legend June Carter Cash in a public funeral service. Cash died Thursday of complications from heart surgery. She was 73 years old.

Former President Gerald Ford is recovering at home after being hospitalized for dizziness. Family members say the 89-year-old became ill while playing golf in hot weather.

Another milestone for Pope John Paul II: his 83rd birthday. He celebrated by canonizing four new Catholic saints.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Santos turning the Preakness into a run away.

O'BRIEN: Controversial Kentucky Derby winner Funny Cide is quickly collecting the jewels of the Triple Crown. The horse won the Preakness Saturday and is set to run in next month's Belmont Stakes.

At the annual Bay to Breakers race, it isn't about the win or the place, but the show. Thousands don costumes for the trot through San Francisco. Kenyan James Koskei actually ran the race and won for the third straight year.

And the lights went out for one of Broadway's brightest stars. "Les Miserables" ended its 16-year run on Broadway yesterday. It was one of the most successful musicals in history, seen by more than 9 million people.

(SINGING)

O'BRIEN: And that's our "Weekend Snapshot."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. The White House recently restated President Bush's support for renewing a ban on certain semiautomatic weapons. The ban has been in place since '94, but is set to expire next year, unless Congress renews it.

Recent signals that the GOP leadership might not bring the renewal up for consideration and will let the ban expire have rekindled the fires of that debate. On this program on Thursday of last week, we aired a live demonstration CNN set up with law enforcement officials of a banned semiautomatic rifle and its legal counterpart. We reviewed that demonstration, and one on another CNN program, and decided that a more detailed report could better explain this complex issue.

Here is CNN's John Zarrella.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a semiautomatic firearm. It instantly self-loads and fires one bullet for each trigger pull. The 1994 Crime Control Act says it is unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer or possess a semiautomatic assault weapon. The law defines a semiautomatic assault weapon by name and description, listing 19 specific firearms by name that are illegal.

The law also bans certain rifles, pistols and shotguns by description, as well as large capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. The law is very specific. For a semiautomatic rifle to be banned, it must be able to use a detachable magazine and have at least two of the following features: A flash suppressor, a bayonet mount, a pistol grip, a folding or telescoping stock, or a grenade launcher.

Gary Reno (ph), a retired 30-year police officer and assistant chief in Oakland Park, Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's examine the banned weapon.

ZARRELLA: ... explained the difference between a banned AR-15 and its legal clone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flash suppressor, bayonet log, high capacity magazine, over 10 rounds, pistol grip and a telescoping rear stock.

ZARRELLA (on camera): And the legal weapon doesn't have those features, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't have any of those features. Does not have a flash suppressor, does not have a bayonet log, has a legal 10- round magazine. Does have the pistol grip, but it has no other features so it makes it a legal firearm, and has a solid rear stock.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Pro-ban advocates say each of these features would make the weapons more deadly, but anti-ban supporters say those features are only cosmetic and don't contribute to and increase in crime. With only one of the listed features, the gun is legal. And without those features, experts say the guns are identical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's exactly the same gun.

ZARRELLA (on camera): And the same firepower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Same firepower, same bullet, you have to squeeze the trigger once to make a bullet go down the barrel.

ZARRELLA (voice-over): In fact, if you fire the same caliber and type bullets from the two guns, you get the same impact.

Here is a .223 caliber bullet fired from a banned AR-15 rifle. Now, the legal version of that rifle.

The smaller hole made by the second gun has nothing to do with the gun or ammunition. The shooter just hit the second target more times in the same place.

Both sides cited Justice Department study about the impact of the law as proof of their argument. Those who oppose the ban say the study shows the ban has had no impact on the reduction of crime and that the answer is to enforce the laws already on the books.

WAYNE LAPIERRE, EXEC. VICE PRESIDENT, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: What stops crime is every time a violent felon touches a gun, a violent drug dealer, a violent criminal, use the existing federal law, prosecute him 100 percent, confront the criminal directly, and take him off the street and put him in jail.

ZARRELLA: Supporters of the ban instead say the study shows a decline in the amount of crime committed with these weapons.

REP. CAROLYN MCCARTHY (D), NEW YORK: I'm sure the American people do not want to go back to the day of allowing AK-47s back on the streets, or even the newer models that are the Buschmeister (ph) that were used in the D.C. sniping killings last year.

ZARRELLA: Gun control advocates are working with some members of Congress on not only extending the assault weapon ban in 2004, but introducing new legislation to vastly expand the number of weapons banned. Gun advocates and their supporters in Congress argue this and any future bans are an unconstitutional violation of the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: So is the U.S. exerting too much pressure or not enough on the Israelis and Palestinians as the Middle East again spins into a cycle of violence? Congressman Robert Wexler and Jim Zogby of the Arab-American Institute will join me in a debate in just a few moments.

Also, a while back we showed you disturbing images of drug abuse and depression among Native Americans in an isolated Canadian village. Well, we have an important update to share with you. Stay with us for that as well.

Plus, a network miniseries about Hitler has at least one TV executive saying "not on my station." We'll speak with him in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back to CNN's WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. I'm Miles O'Brien. Wolf is off today.

Coming up on the heels of more terror, two men with different appearance -- opinions I should say -- share what it takes to bring peace to the Middle East. I'll speak with Congressman Robert Wexler and Arab-American Institute founder, James Zogby.

(NEWSBREAK)

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF BREAKING NEWS)

O'BRIEN: More now on the wave of terror attacks targeting Israelis, but also forming roadblocks on the roadmap to peace, to say the least.

What do the two sides need to get around them?

Congressman Robert Wexler, a Democrat from Florida, and James Zogby, Founder of the Arab-American Institute join me both from Washington.

Mr. Zogby, let's begin with you. What could be done to stop these suicide bombings? Because until they stop, it seems as if any sort of dialogue is not going to happen.

JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: Well, it is true, but the issue here is a complex one because there's a cycle of violence and it's deep and it's taking tolls on both sides.

You know, in the last two-month period in each two-week segment, more than three dozen Palestinians were killed by Israelis and daily life on the West Bank is a nightmare.

For Abu Mazen, the new Palestinian prime minister, to be able to take effective steps, he needs to have more authority, the kind of authority that President Arafat didn't have. Palestinian police forces being dismantled by the Israeli, as has the Palestinian governance, the ability to govern in their territory.

Seventy percent of the population is unemployed and sixty percent are right now below the poverty level. It is a horrific situation. The bush administration has been clear that things must happen to improve the daily life of Palestinians so that Abu Mazen will have the authority to move forward and to take effective measures. That has not been done. It seems to get worse, not better.

O'BRIEN: Congressman Wexler, whenever we get into this discussion it gets into chicken and egg questions as to which goes first, Catch 22's, synchronicity (ph), whatever you want to call it.

The one issue that is worth exploring, though, is in allowing the talks to be derailed, doesn't Ariel Sharon, in effect, give the suicide bombers sort of veto to the whole process?

REP. ROBERT WEXLER (D), FLORIDA: Well, you can look at it that way but I think the more constructive way to look at it, quite frankly, is that no country negotiates because of terrorism.

The United States never would have negotiated with al Qaeda after September 11. We're not asking Saudi Arabia to negotiate with al Qaeda after this week's bombing. We're not going to ask Morocco to negotiate with whoever blew up the several places in Morocco in the last couple of weeks.

The point is the Palestinians have an obligation to perform. Their obligation is to minimize, if not totally end, terror. Unfortunately, it's not George Bush's fault. It's not Ariel Sharon's fault. Right now you have Yasser Arafat working to a certain degree in cahoots now with Hamas, Hezbollah. Unfortunately, there are too many Palestinian interests that are look to undermine Abu Mazen.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Zogby...

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: That's a good point. I mean, over the years... (CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: ...these revolving door prisons and the terrorists...

ZOGBY: Well, you know, listen, that's simply not true, Miles. The fact is is that Yasser Arafat is not the source of the problem here.

Congressman is right to some small degrees. Two groups, Hamas and Islamic Jihad, are part of the problem and some other splinter groups as well. But the fact is that you cannot crack down on this problem without giving the authority, the Palestinian authority, the tools. They don't have a security apparatus right now and they don't have the ability as a governance to say to their own people, look at the benefits of us cracking down. That's why the Palestinian population right now is not interested in a crackdown or in a civil war.

O'BRIEN: Congressman Wexler....

ZOGBY: What -- what -- what Sharon has done is unleashed a bloodbath on the Palestinians. We're only seeing one side of that story. We're seeing the Israelis who are killed and it is condemnable. And the bastards who do this thing are evil because their violence will not end the occupation.

But the violence from the Israeli side will not create more security either. And that is all around.

O'BRIEN: Isn't it difficult for the Palestinians to see the carrot when the compound that Yasser Arafat operates out of literally lies in rubble and there's talk of perhaps exiling him through all of this. That doesn't really lead them to believe there's any sort of incentive, does it?

WEXLER: I think it's a false argument, quite frankly.

The president of the United States, President Bush, from the Rose Garden and then on subsequent speeches, has laid out a road map plan, which at the end creates a two-state solution whereby the Palestinian people would get the state that they justly deserve.

But in order to get that state, they have a performance obligation and that obligation is to end terror. They cannot expect to get a state and at the same time engage in an operation of terror continuously on the Israelis. It is an unreasonable request to ask the Israeli people to negotiate, to make concessions while they are continuing to incur the wrath of terror. No rational country would do that.

ZOGBY: But Congressman, you're not negotiating with the terrorists. You're negotiating with the Palestinian authority. You're not negotiating with Hamas or Islamic Jihad. You're negotiating with those who, as Prime Minister Rabin said ,and I think correctly said, you negotiate despite the terror and you fight terror even while you continue to negotiate peace. O'BRIEN: All right.

ZOGBY: This government in Israel has taken a different direction. It is building settlements, confiscating land, demolishing houses and killing people and at the same time stopping negotiations. That's not the road to peace.

WEXLER: We have a new prime minister of the Palestinian authority that in two weeks' time has been undermined by his own people. Not by Ariel Sharon, not by George Bush, by his own people. It's time for the Palestinian people to take control of their own destiny, which is something they have refused to do for decades.

O'BRIEN: All right. Quickly, gentlemen, and I'll start with you, Congressman. Is the road map leading toward a few bumps, as the president suggests, or are we at a dead end?

Congressman Wexler, you first.

WEXLER: There should never be a conclusion that it's a dead end. But it is performance that is required and unfortunately, again, the last two days is a stark example of the failure of the Palestinian authority to end violence and therefore they are refusing to perform.

O'BRIEN: Jim Zogby.

ZOGBY: The president has to be able to be tough on both sides and up until now there has been an asymmetry. We're tough on the Palestinians but Ariel Sharon literally has had his way with the Palestinian people. And the signs are there, clearly on the ground. People are suffering on both sides. But we've got to be tough with both sides and up to date, we haven't been.

O'BRIEN: All right. James Zogby and Robert Wexler, thank you both very much for being with us.

WEXLER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Will a change in location help a Native American in the battle against drug abuse, isolation and depression? We'll have an update on the group when we come back.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: After years of living in icy desolation and battling drug abuse, a Native American group finds hope in a new home. The Innu tribe of Labrador, Canada is moving from Davis Inlet to the mainland. CNN's Gary Tuchman explains why their move is more than just a change in location.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 26 below zero Fahrenheit here in Davis Inlet in the northern reaches of Canada. And that's the high for the day. As the real cold arrives, residents pack up as they begin an exodus.

SIMEON TSHAKAPESH, TRIBAL LEADER: When you look at the real picture, I think it's -- we're on the verge of extinction, I think.

TUCHMAN: They are the Innu of Labrador, a 650-member aboriginal community with unique language and culture, who live in isolation, abject poverty. They're now hoping to escape decades of despair.

In a previous visit here, we saw many young people sniffing gasoline and rubber cement. Alcoholism among adults runs rampant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm drunk. And I feel good right now.

TUCHMAN: And abuse is also prevalent. This couple had been drinking. The woman is holding a log. Many blame the situation here on the Canadian government, which convinced these nomadic people to settle here in the 1960s. This is Christina.

(on camera): Why do you sniff rubber cement?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I like it.

TUCHMAN: How come?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is getting me high.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): The federal government has responded by moving the Innu again, but this time to a modern new town, built at taxpayer expense of 160 million Canadian dollars.

AL GARMAN, HEALTH CANADA: It took many years, generations to reach the point where we are now. It will take equally long I would say in order to reach a point where they have a stable society, they can deal with life where they are in the kind of circumstances they're in.

TUCHMAN: Yet the Innu are hopeful. That's why they're packing their snowmobiles for the 30-minute ride across the tundra to their new home of Napashish (ph). There are eight people in the Poker (ph) family. And they're packing up in their old home. It is cold and cluttered inside. Six people share this tiny dilapidated bedroom.

(on camera): Why don't you want to stay here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

TUCHMAN: But this place is the past. The future is in a house that would fit in in most suburban neighborhoods.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never dreamed it would be like this, but this is beautiful.

TUCHMAN: With a large master bedroom, two other bedrooms, and reliable heat and plumbing.

(on camera): What do you think of this kitchen? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's too big.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): And Christina, the teenager we saw sniffing the rubber cement back in 2001 is also in a new home.

(on camera): Do you like it here? Better than Davis Inlet?

(voice-over): Christina and many other Innu teenagers have been treated for substance abuse by the government. She won't tell us if the treatment worked.

(on camera): It is expected that by this summer the last residents near Davis Inlet will leave and be moved to their new community. This ramshackle outpost will then officially no longer be on the map.

We haven't met anyone yet who will shed a tear.

(voice-over): But while they're hopeful their lives will change for the better, the Innu people are well aware that even with their new home, they have a long way to go.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Labrador, Canada.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: A network miniseries about the rise of Adolf Hitler is shedding new light on the little known part of the story, but there is one TV executive worried about the message it may send to some viewers. We'll speak with him when we return. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Blasted by some critics before it even hit TV screens across the country, the miniseries "Hitler: the Rise of Evil" had its debut last night. Reviews appeared to be mixed, but the dust over the controversial CBS production has yet to settle.

Dale Remy, general manager of the Texas CBS affiliate KZTV is refusing to air the show. He joins us in Corpus Christi, and with us also is Ken Jacobson of the Anti-Defamation League, which initially was very critical of the program but has changed its tune. I want to start with Mr. Remmy. Why did you decide to pull the plug on the Hitler series?

DALE REMY, GENERAL MANAGER, KZTV: Well, it is an important distinction, point of fact, Miles, we didn't refuse to air the program. We refused to air it during its prime-time window. We had offered to air it later night. We just felt it was inappropriate for a family audience.

O'BRIEN: All right. And so is it airing later at night, by the way?

REMY: No, CBS took its option to clear the program on another alternate outlet here in our market, another television station. O'BRIEN: So in lieu of "Hitler" you're airing "Superman" or "Naked Gun 2 1/2" or something like that.

That's correct.

O'BRIEN: What were you most concerned about in airing it during that day part? Who were you concerned about this program getting to?

REMY: Well, I was concerned that it is not a documentary, it is a theatrical presentation, a dramatization with great creative license taken throughout its story line that I felt humanized Adolph Hitler and I didn't want to put that in front of families, young kids. I'm concerned about the Nazi agenda and I'm concerned that making Hitler a relatable character, a likable theatrical character is mistake. I wasn't comfortable with it.

We have a statement from a spokesperson for CBS which we would like to share with you. Chris Endor, says this, "We respect the station a right to determine what is appropriate to broadcast in their local market. However, this was clearly an isolated situation. We certainly stand behind the quality of the mini-series, which received support from prominent Jewish leaders such as the Anti-Defamation League."

Which brings us, of course to Mr. Jacobson. You initially had some reservations about this program. But you and the ADL changed your mind.

KEN JACOBSON, ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE: Before we had seen it all, we had concerns about any program, just like Mr. Remy that might glamorize Hitler, rationalize his activities, personalize it in that way. We then had a chance to view the production and in fact we were pleasantly surprised. In fact it didn't fall into any of the traps. It did not glamorize him. It didn't trivialize him. It spoke to the potency of evil and the fragility of democracy. And we think actually it is a very good learning tool for a lot of Americans, particularly young ones who haven't been involved and know about the issue.

O'BRIEN: You don't believe in any way this encourages evil or glorifies what Hitler did?

JACOBSON: To the contrary. We had concerns before we had seen it, especially with a lot of talk about emphasizing his young years and obviously a child is a child, so there was a possibility. But in fact it is clear from the very outset that this person embodied evil. He was a real human being and that makes it even stronger. And it also demonstrates how good people fail to stand up early enough when they in fact knew what this man was about. And so I think it has a particular resonance because it keels with the period leading up to the worst events and it shows that from an early period in the 20s it was clear what Hitler was about.

Mr. Remy, when saw that program, you didn't see the same educational opportunity that Mr. Jacobson saw and if so, why not?

REMY: I think an educational program would be as such. It wouldn't be put into the wraps of entertainment. I'd also like point that although I requested -- discussed with CBS an opportunity to view the program in its entirety before making my decision final, it -- they were unable provide that for me. So, I did not have the advantage of that only having seen the clips and the overall synopsis of the series. I had to base my decision based on that.

I would also point out not everybody seize the same program the same way. I think when you look at the mainstream, you look at educated people who understand and are sensitive and can make an educated and informed analysis of what they're viewing. And some people will watch the same program and become inspired, agitated or any of those things.

O'BRIEN: But is that your responsibility as a station manager?

REMY: Well as a broadcaster it is absolutely my responsibility to put what I think is a responsible product on the air with my viewing audience. I have to be aware that it is a broadcast property that I'm on. It's not cable. It is not pay-per-view. I could tell you that I've been doing this for 20 years, and this is the first time I've ever exercised the option of declining to run in pattern a prime time program from any network I've been involved with. So...

O'BRIEN: Mr. Jacobson -- I'm sorry finish your last point.

REMY: It is certainly no -- the program is well done, beautifully acted, well produced. But I think again problematic in the humanization of Adolph Hitler.

O'BRIEN: Would you have made a different decision if you had seen the whole thing?

REMY: I can't say that because I haven't yet. And it hasn't all aired yet. What I saw last night would not have changed my mind.

O'BRIEN: OK. Mr. Jacobson, wouldn't it be best to just let Hitler be, leave it lean not treat it in this subject in any way, shape or form.

JACOBSON: Well, again we had concerns from the outset. But the truth is it depends how it was done. There was no effort to rationalize, to justify. And it is always a very delicate balance between -- you want to make him not into a character but into a person, that to show people that evil is possible and in fact that I believe was done in this production. Don't forget when the movie "Holocaust," appeared on television in the United States 20 years ago it really opened a large American audience to the history of that terrible, terrible period in way.

And I think the fact that they were very careful in this production, the fact that as I said it showed many aspects that really a lot of folks don't really know about, not only the strength of the evil, but the fact that it existed within his mind and his publications, et cetera, for a long time before that. And the fact how fragile democracy is, that the failure of good people to stand up and the institutions to stand up really easily led to this terrible, terrible situation. So I think it has real value. And I think whatever concerns we had, we believe that the efforts by the producers to do a good solid job really outweighs that.

O'BRIEN: All right, we're going to have to leave it at that. We're out of time unfortunately.

Ken Jacobson, Dale Remy, we thank you for being with us on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS today.

Our hot web question of the day, "Should President Bush pressure the Israelis and Palestinians to accept the peace agreement. We invite you to vote now. Cnn.com/wolf is the place, the results when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Now here is how you're weighing in on our web question of the day. Should President Bush pressure the Israelis and Palestinians to accept the peace agreement. 60 percent of you say, yes, 40 percent of you say, no. As we always tell you this is not a scientific poll.

Time new for the headlines making news at this hour.

Israel is hit with its fifth suicide bombing in 48 hours. The latest one happened in a mall in the city of Afula where three people were killed, 47 wounded. Palestinian sources say a 19-year-old woman carried out the attack.

Two radical Islamic groups are claiming responsibility. U.S. and Saudi investigators are looking into whether an al Qaeda weapons cache came from the Saudi National Guard. The weapons were seized during a May 6 raid on an al Qaeda safe house. Authorities say three of 19 people wanted for questioning went on to take part in the Riyadh suicide bombings.

This year's hurricane season could be a busy one. NOAA forecasters predict between 11 and 15 tropical storms, up to nine of those, they say, could become hurricanes. Hurricane season lasts from June 1 to November 30.

You can always watch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS week days this time 5:00 Eastern. Wolf, will be back tomorrow. I'm Miles O'Brien.

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