Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Should Race Be Considered in College Admissions?; Secret Shootout With Syria
Aired June 23, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: A huge, huge day at the United States Supreme Court today. It could affect all of us for many years to come.
And a major move in the war on terrorism. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Action on affirmative action. Historical decisions from the Supreme Court. Does race have a place in college admissions?
Secret shootout with Syria. In hot pursuit of fleeing Iraqis, did U.S. forces find a new foe?
Battle on the border. High tech help for Homeland Security, or waging war against illegal migrants.
It's Monday, June 23, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. A test case that had many across the country on pins and needles. In landmark decisions today, the Supreme Court ruled that race can indeed be considered as a factor in university admissions up to a point. Let's go straight to CNN national correspondent, Bob Franken. He's joining us from the Supreme Court -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President Bush called this a balanced decision. But there are some among the more skeptical who are saying what the Supreme Court really had was indecision.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): If someone was hoping the Supreme Court would clear up the confused law over affirmative action, he will probably be disappointed. The decisions in the two cases were mixed, what dissenting Justice Scalia called a split double header, which seems perversely designed to prolong the controversy and the litigation. Writing for the winning 5 to 4 side in the Michigan Law School case, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said the use of race not prohibited by the equal protection clause of the constitution, that the school could utilize a subjective judgment in an effort to achieve meaningful diversity in education. The other case involved the challenge to the University of Michigan's more structured undergraduate admissions program with added points assigned to minorities. Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the 6-3 decision saying it violates the equal protection clause. That this one went too far in considering race. It was a set of rulings that allowed both sides to declare victory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What it mean is, it isn't core, is that affirmative action may still be used and the court's given us a road map to get there. And so we are very, very excited and very pleased.
TERRY PELL, PRES. CENTER FOR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS: At the end of the day, the court raised the bar and made it harder for schools to take race into account.
FRANKEN: At the end of the day, the two rulings leave a result that many believe mirror the so called Bakke decision of 1978 in which quota systems were ruled illegal, but race could still be a consideration. These decisions affect more than just school admissions.
TOM GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT APPELLATE ATTORNEY: Today's decisions are also a road map, not just for universities, but affirmative action generally. The Supreme Court has told us that so long as you have a nuanced inquiry, one that looks not just at race, but other factors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: There had been a hope that the rulings, one way or the other here, would settle the long time unsettled law on affirmative action. Wolf, there's a feeling that it remains unsettled. Wolf?
BLITZER: Bob Franken, thanks very much. Top-ranking African- Americans similarly broke ranks with the president -- with the president's statement going into this Supreme Court decision. The secretary of state, for example, Colin Powell, said earlier that race should indeed be considered a factor in determining the makeup of university student body. And the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, has said she, too, believes it is appropriate to use race as one factor in achieving a diverse student body.
The Bush administration's court brief stressed so-called race neutral options for achieving diversity. Let's get some analysis right now on what this historic decision means. For that, we bring in Andy Cornblatt, he's the dean of admissions at Georgetown University Law School here in Washington. Andy, thanks very much for joining us.
ANDY CORNBLATT, DEAN OF ADMISSIONS, GEORGETOWN LAW SCHOOL: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: Historic decision, how will it impact you on a day-to- day basis in admitting law students?
CORNBLATT: Basically, what this decision did for us at Georgetown is to reaffirm for us that the way we have been doing this process is okay. That Justice O'Connor speaking on behalf of the majority of the court, said that as long as you deal with this issue one person at a time. You need to deal with these folks, all applicants, as individuals in a holistic way, which is what we do at Georgetown.
As long as you do that, we may take race into account as we may take lots of things into account. Geography, age, work experience, All sorts of aspects may be taken into account. What they said at the undergraduate level, was it cannot be a numeric dispositive way of dealing with it. It can't be you're All a member of some group, you All get the same number of points. That's not reading each application individually and making individual decisions. And the court said, that's what you need to do. Fortunately at Georgetown, I think at a number of the top law schools, that's what we do.
BLITZER: So the bottom line is, you're going to continue business as usual and minority students, whether African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, they won't necessarily have to get exactly the same law boards or grade point average that white students get.
CORNBLATT: That's correct. But that's also true for other white applicants. It's not a hard and fast rule that All applicants must have a certain GPA or LSAT. That's true for white and true for black, Hispanic, Native Americans, All sorts of students. These applicants come with All sorts of things to the law school, especially the Georgetown Law School, the school I'm employed by, with wonderful experience, with wonderful stories, wonderful biographies. That's what we want to consider. That's what we have considered and justice O'Connor said, by All means, keep considering it.
BLITZER: The critics though - the critics complain that a lot of white students are going to be penalized by the continuation of this affirmative action program.
CORNBLATT: Well, we don't admit anybody at Georgetown that isn't qualified. And we have exponentially more applicants than we have seats. We have over 12,000 applications for 450 seats. Lots of very qualified people, black or white or anything else are denied. But within that group of qualified students, the faculty at Georgetown Law School, the dean, the Alumni, everyone has said to us in the admissions office, read each one, one at a time. When we say best or better, that's really a relative term.
BLITZER: If Sandra Day O'Connor had come down on the other side and it had been a 5-4 decisions ruling against the University of Michigan, what would have been the impact at Georgetown University Law School and other elite schools around the country?
CORNBLATT: I think it really would have hamstrung us in an effort to get a diverse student body. I think our minority percentages would have initially dropped. We would have tried to find ways to increase our diversity. But -- and we certainly worried about that. But we were delighted and, frankly, relieved that Justice O'Connor and the majority of the court says diversity is a compelling state interest. Be sure you do it in a narrowly tailored way, which we have and which the undergraduate admissions at Michigan did not, but as long as you do that, by All means take it into account.
BLITZER: So, if it had gone the other way, do you accept, about 500 students a year?
CORNBLATT: Well, we enroll about 500 students. We admit about 1500.
BLITZER: All right. So - well, of those 500, how many of them are minority? What percentage...
CORNBLATT: About 25 percent.
BLITZER: Twenty-five percent minority. What would it have gone down to if she had ruled the other way?
CORNBLATT: Initially, I don't know for sure. Probably somewhere between 10 percent and 15 percent.
BLITZER: So it would have been...
CORNBLATT: Yes, it would have.
BLITZER: ... a huge win for those who support affirmative action. And the fact that the University of Michigan undergraduate, that point system was ruled unconstitutional, what impact does that have on you?
CORNBLATT: Almost none. I mean, I think what they say -- it means that we can't have a numeric process. We didn't beforehand, nor will we have any plans to do so. I think, at the undergraduate level, they have such a high volume of applicants, that this was a shorthand way of dealing with this. At the law school level, even though we have 12,000 applications at Georgetown, the most of any law school, it's incumbent upon us to deal with this one person at a time.
Everybody deserves individual consideration. Justice O'Connor said you must do that. While you're doing that, take in all the aspects of diversity you'd like, but make sure it's done one at time, not in some mathematic sorting.
BLITZER: Andy, stand by for a second. I want to put up on the screen, the reaction from the president, from the White House statement that was released shortly after the Supreme Court came down. "Today's decisions seek a careful balance between the goal of campus diversity and the fundamental principle of equal treatment under the law." You're familiar with the administration's brief that was filed with the Supreme Court, which was critically very, very different. They opposed the -- they said both of these cases were unconstitutional.
CORNBLATT: Law school as well. That's right.
BLITZER: So how do you explain what the president -- what the White House is saying now. Because it seems to be declaring victory in the face of what they earlier opposed. CORNBLATT: You and I both live in Washington, D.C. My guess is this is that dreaded four-letter word 'spin'. And I think they took what they had and George Bush decided he was in favor of all aspects of this. It does appear to me to be slightly different than...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And this is an historic moment, though, in the United States.
CORNBLATT: You bet. We All were watching this extraordinarily carefully. Everyone was on their computer watching cnn.com at 10:00, because we knew it was going to be coming down either today or Thursday. And I think I -- I hope I speak for most of my colleagues, we are very relieved.
BLITZER: All right. Andy Cornblatt of Georgetown University Law School, one of the premier law schools in the country, right around the corner from here. Appreciate it very much.
CORNBLATT: Thank you, Wolf, very much.
BLITZER: It is your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this -- has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. You can vote at cnn.com/Wolf. And while you are there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/Wolf.
In other decisions, the Supreme Court says Congress can force your local library to put anti-pornography filters on computers or lose federal funds. In a 6-3 ruling the court reinstated a law some libraries and civil liberties groups call a first amendment violation.
And the court struck down a California law intended to help holocaust survivors collect on insurance policies from the Nazi era. The 5-4 ruling called the law unconstitutional meddling by a state in foreign affairs.
A terrorist suspect stripped of most of his rights and named an enemy combatant. Find out why the Bush administration is taking this tough step.
Plus, ace of spades. U.S. forces consider DNA tests in a bid to track down Saddam Hussein.
Also, blazing Arizona. We'll take you to the front lines of the firefight.
And emergency evacuation. Find out why passengers were bailing out on the runway.
But first, let's take a look at some other news making headlines around the world. Dangerous cargo. Greek Special Forces seized a cargo ship loaded with 680 metric tons of explosives as it sailed through Greek territorial waters. Officials said documents indicated the Baltic Sky was bound for a bogus firm in Hartum.
Kenya bans flights. The government is banning flights both to and from neighboring Somalia. Kenya says it's taking the action because of what it calls a terrorism threat. Last week, U.S. officials warned of a possible terrorist attack against the American embassy in Nairobi and other U.S. interests in the country.
Powell in the Middle East. The secretary of state says a few individuals are trying to blow up the road map to peace, and they can't be allowed to succeed. Powell heads home today after three days at the World Economic Forum in Jordan.
Gay bishop. The Archbishop of Canterbury says the appointment of a gay bishop doesn't violate church teaching. The Reverend Jeffrey John appointed bishop within a diocese in southern England, says he continues in a long-term relationship with another man, but has been celibate for several years.
Gay pride in Brazil. Hundreds of thousands of people danced their way through Sao Paulo yesterday in celebration of diversity in sexuality. Police say the turnout was twice that of last year.
Trashing the prince's party. A man who bills himself as the comedy terrorist crashed Prince Williams' 21st birthday party at Windsor Castle. He was arrested and later released. A Scotland Yard investigation is under way.
And that's our look around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A shootout Along the Iraqi border, but the Iraqis didn't do the shooting. Who traded fire with the U.S. forces? A surprising story. That's coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. A major new development today in the war on terror. The Bush administration has designated a Qatari man with suspected links to Al Qaeda as an enemy combatant. Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, is keeping track of this story. She's joining me here live. Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Al-Marri has been in federal custody for a year and a half. But the government says it has received fresh intelligence in recent months that led the president to reclassify him an enemy combatant, all in the name of national security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Justice Department officials say Ali Al- Marri was an al Qaeda sleeper in the United States, tasked with helping other operatives get in position for future attacks. They say they got that information from an Al Qaeda detainee who is in a position to know. The detainee also said Al-Marri was trained in the use of poison but was not ordered to carry out any biological or chemical attack here. Other detainees place Al-Marri at the Al-Farooq terror training camp in Afghanistan and say he pledged his Allegiance to Osama bin Laden, even offering to serve as a martyr if necessary. But sources tell CNN Al-Marri was not cooperating, and that the government believes it may have a better chance of getting information from him if he's in military custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now an individual with that kind of situation is an individual who might know a lot about what could happen, might know the names of individuals, information being so key to intelligence and prevention that prevention being our number one objective we decided we would be best served with him detained as an enemy combatant.
ARENA: But Al-Marri's defense attorney told CNN, I'm skeptical that their decision is a response to new information as opposed to legal developments in the case. The government contends its case against Al-Marri was strong. Al-Marri, who entered the United States on September 10th, 2001, was not facing terrorism charges. Instead he was indicted last year for credit card fraud and for lying to federal agents about contacts with an alleged terrorist in the United Arab Emirates. Mustafa Hamed al-Hasawi. Al-Hasawi, who has been in custody since his capture in Pakistan in March is suspected of helping finance the September 11th attacks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: As an enemy combatant, al-Marri will be held in the military brig in South Carolina and will no longer have access to a lawyer. The other two enemy combatants that are in custody include Jose Padilla, the alleged dirty bomber, and Yasser Hamdi, who was caught on the battlefield in Afghanistan. Wolf?
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, thanks very much for that report. We have much more news coming up, including this. Border war down south.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN SPENCER, AMERICAN BORDER PATROL: Mexico is a corrupt nation. And that corruption reaches everybody. Everybody. Nobody is exempt.
ISABEL GARCIA, CO-CHAIR DERECHOS HUMANOS: We believe that Mr. Spencer is basically a racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The fight over immigration turns into a high-tech battle.
Plus, no end in sight. U.S. troops face an undefined future in Iraq. How long will they really be there? And Mike Tyson, brawling again outside the ring. Will this latest fight land him back in jail?
First, in case you were out enjoying the days off, here's our weekend snapshot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): On the rise again. After a three-month slide, gasoline prices in the United States are headed back up. The latest survey shows the average price for a gallon of gas is $1.54. That's nearly three quarters of a penny higher than earlier this month. Tighter crude oil supplies and refinery glitches are blamed for the increase.
Brawl in L.A. Heavyweight champ Lennox Lewis held on to his title after a cut stopped Vitali Klitschko after six rounds. Saturday night's bought in Los Angeles ended on a sour note when the ring doctor examined Klitschko and ordered the fight stopped. Klitschko, who was bleeding badly from a cut on his left eye, was winning on all three scorecards.
Close call. Hundreds of people in Florida were allowed to return home last night after fears of flooding subsided. Homes near a dam in Manatee County were evacuated after floodwaters threatened to breach the structure. Engineers were able to pry open a stuck floodgate and the water began to drain.
Biotech protests. Hundreds of demonstrators took to the streets of Sacramento, California, yesterday as a biotech conference got under way. Activists say the meeting is an attempt by corporate farming and biotech interests to push into new markets.
Incredible opening. "The Hulk" knocked out the competition at the box office over the weekend with the big green guy pulling in nearly $63 million in ticket sales. That's the best June opening ever.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A hot issue in post-9/11 America, of course, is illegal immigration. A private group is keeping a high-tech eye on the Mexican border, saying it's helping with Homeland Security. But others say it's waging an undeclared war on migrants. CNN's Kevin Sites reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN SITES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Glenn Spencer doesn't believe the U.S. Government is doing enough to stop illegal immigration from Mexico.
SPENCER: We are not vigilantes. We are not militia. We are shedding light on the border. SITES: He wants his own private American border patrol to show them how. Testing the fleet of radio-controlled spy drones to watch the border and broadcast live images over the Internet.
SPENCER: And if that embarrasses our government into doing the job, so be it.
SITES: The U.S. Border Patrol won't comment on the American Border Patrol, other than to say it discourages these kinds of private activities. But that hasn't stopped Spencer. He says undocumented immigrants from Mexico import a culture of corruption. He claims they've already ruined California's education and health care systems and that's why he moved to Arizona.
SPENCER: Mexico is a corrupt nation. And that corruption reaches everybody. Everybody. Nobody is exempt.
GARCIA: We believe that Mr. Spencer is basically a racist.
SITES: Isabel Garcia is the co-chair of Tucson based Derechos Humanos, which champions the rights of Mexican migrants. While Spencer's group uses spy planes and high technology in its approach, Garcia's is grassroots organizing. Community meetings and weekly prayer vigils for those who have died in attempts to cross the border. Garcia says the U.S. economy would number shambles without the Mexican workers.
GARCIA: Undocumented workers pay so many, many millions in taxes and receive but a fraction of those in services that he talks about.
SPENCER: She's an agent of Mexico. She is here to aid the Mexican conquest of the southwest.
SITES: And when Spencer says Mexican conquests, he's not speaking in the abstract.
You literally feel the U.S. is being invaded...
SPENCER: No question.
SITES: ... by Mexicans?
SPENCER: By Mexico.
SITES: An idea he promotes on his Web site and on videos produced under the name, American Patrol. The Mexican consulate in Arizona says Spencer's allegation are just, quote, silly, and civil rights watchdogs, the Southern Poverty Law Center, calls American Patrol a hate group, a charge Spencer denies.
SPENCER: I'm biased in the favor of the United States of America. And I don't want Mexico to invade us. But what I do as America...
SITES: You tell me this is not racially motivated?
SPENCER: Hell no, it isn't.
SITES (on camera): Since the late '80s these 15 foot high corrugated steel walls have divided the U.S. from Mexico along most of the major border towns. Those who side with Glenn Spencer want to see more of these walls. Those who side with Isabel Garcia, want to see them come down.
(voice-over): But despite the fiery rhetoric, Spencer and Garcia both agree on one thing. U.S. Immigration controls aren't working. Not for ranchers like Wes Flowers who spends thousands to repair fences ruined by migrants crossing his property.
WES FLOWERS: We have fences cut there...
SITES: Not for the people who have died attempting to cross, which has nearly doubles from 78 and 2001 to 134 in 2002. The majority from exposure to extreme temperatures. But for many Mexicans like Nacho and Victor, who routinely cross illegally from Nogales, Mexico into Nogales, Arizona, the economic draw is impossible to resist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You make 20 bucks in two hours is what you make in all day in Mexico, you know?
SITES: And that may be the thing that neither prayers nor planes can stop. Kevin Sites, CNN on the Mexican border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Secret shootout. The war in Iraq spills over into another country. Find out who U.S. troops were firing at.
Plus, Mike Tyson fighting again. But will this land him back behind bars?
The debate that's dividing the nation and the courts. Affirmative action. Both sides will sound off right here.
And so can you. Vote now on our web question of the day. Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? Cnn.com/wolf.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," live from the nation's capital. With correspondents from around the world. Here now is wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. The search for Saddam Hussein turns into a secret shootout with Syrian troops. We'll have all of that. First the latest headlines.
President Bush is speaking out in favor of biotechnology. Today he hailed new developments in the field, saying they are helping the wars on terror and famine. He was sharply critical of European countries opposed to genetically modified crops. In Sacramento, California, protesters are demonstrating again today at a biotechnology conference. Agriculture officials from around the world are attending that conference. You are looking at live pictures right now clearly some tension with opponents of biotechnology. We're still watching what's happening on the streets of Sacramento right now.
And a judge sentenced Jose Canseco to nearly a month in jail today. A hearing on whether he violated his probation by taking steroids will be held next month. Canseco is already under probation for his involvement in a fight in a nightclub in Miami two years ago.
Mike Tyson's day in court is expected to come at the end of July. Police arrested the former heavy weight champion in Brooklyn early Saturday morning after he and two other men allegedly got into a fight. Tyson is charged with assault and disorderly conduct. The charges could carry sentences of up to one year in prison.
Former Democratic governor of Vermont Howard Dean formally launched his presidential campaign today, pledging to rescue the nation from what he called a crisis. Dean harshly criticized President Bush as a divisive leader and expressed his support for civil rights, affirmative action and abortion rights.
This sad note, former Atlanta mayor, Mayor Jackson, died of a heart attack after collapsing at an airport in Washington today. First elected in 1973, Jackson was the first African-American to run a major southern city. He was also a staunch supporter of affirmative action. Jackson was 65 years old.
A new twist in the ongoing hunt for Saddam Hussein. U.S. special forces fired on a convoy fleeing from the Syrian border last week. The incident involved air power, a commando team, and ultimately Syrian border guards. Let's go live to CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre. He's sorting out all of these details for us.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's not clear if it was a shootout, but it does appear there was some sort of exchange of gunfire in this incident.
To back up a little bit, the whole story started really with the capture of Saddam Hussein's bodyguard and close confidant, General Abi Hamid Mahmud last week. U.S. intelligence sources say that information related to that capture, not what he said, but other information, led the U.S. to target a convoy of about a half dozen vehicles leaving the border town of Heim Wednesday night, believed to be carrying former senior leaders. There was at least a hope, said one Pentagon official that Saddam Hussein or some of his sons might be among them.
According to sources, a U.S. Air Force Predator Drone armed with Hellfire missiles tracked the vehicles which split into two groups. A special AC-130 gunship was also called in. At some point the predator fired its Hellfire missiles and the AC-130 opened up as well. A commando team from task force 20 moved in -- that's the special commando task force tracking Saddam Hussein.
According to sources, some of the vehicles were heading for the border with Syria and may have been crossing the border at the time of the attack. At least three Syrian border guards were wounded, it's unclear. They were struck in the air attack or in a firefight on the ground. Pentagon sources say that part of the problem is that Syria did not stop the vehicles at the border as they've agreed to do and U.S. forces then followed them in hot pursuit.
The Pentagon is downplaying the possibility that Saddam Hussein was killed or captured in this attack. In fact, of the 20 or so people that were taken into custody, most have been let go, but a Pentagon spokesman said quote routine DNA testing will be done if appropriate based intelligence is gathered. The only person the Pentagon admits to having a DNA sample for is Saddam Hussein.
BLITZER: Alright, Jamie McIntyre with that from the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.
Meanwhile, some key United States senators from both parties are saying U.S. troops will be in Iraq for a long time. The foreign relations committee members Joe Biden, Chuck Haguele and the chairman Richard Lugar are in Iraq themselves and they estimate the U.S. deployment could continue for at least five years. They say the rebuilding efforts could cost billions more than Iraq's oil industry can pay for and they also say the administration and the Congress must be straight with the American people about the commitment and the cost required.
So, are U.S. forces in Iraq to stay, can they look forward to years of ambushes and occupation duty? Joining me now with some analysis, retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Dan Christman, the former adviser to the secretary of state. He also played a key role in NATO's peacekeeping efforts in the Balkans. General, thanks very much for joining us.
What's the answer, is this going to go on like this: the sniping, the insurgency, the counterinsurgency, the guerrilla warfare for years to come?
DAN CHRISTMAN, RETIRED U.S. ARMY LIEUTENANT GENERAL: I certainly hope not. I think the key on this things is to make certain that there is an adequate transition in Iraq, economically, and to get Saddam. I think the Syrian case is a perfect illustration of the importance, now, that we attach to getting Saddam and his sons. There is so much attached to that. The stability that we are seeing now, the stability problems, I think, derive in great part because so many believe he's alive and they attach hope that he'll be revived and come back to lead. And secondly, they, then, will attempt to destabilize Iraq in the absence of a firm indication that he's dead.
BLITZER: Well, what about creating some sort of Iraqi stabilization force?
CHRISTMAN: I think it's so significant, Wolf, that Jerry Bremer announced, just in the last 24 hours, that there will be such a force created. Apparently starting small, 10 to 12,000, a division or so of Iraqi troops up to about 40,000 over two to three years. That's huge, it's huge because you have Iraqis, now, in the responsibility of maintaining stability, but more importantly it gets numbers there. We don't have the numbers in our army and marines, any longer, to provide increased forces on the ground. That's going to come from two sources: internationally or the Iraqis. So the Iraqi announcement here, by Bremer, is huge.
BLITZER: What about this incident with Syrian border guards getting involved in a pair of fire fights with U.S. troops as they are preventing Iraqis from trying to cross into Syria. That sounds potentially as a huge issue for U.S./Syrian relationships.
CHRISTMAN: Actually, Wolf, I interpret that a little bit differently. Number one, I thing the importance of it is that we are now inexorable in our pressure to get Saddam and his sons. Second, it shows that border is air tight. It's still porous, but better than it was before the war. But now, I think Wolf, what's so curious about this is that, not withstanding this fire and some of the woundings, the U.S./Syrian rhetoric and dialogue is surprisingly modulated. Just imagine three or four months ago what would have happened had there been an incident like this prior to the war.
BLITZER: One final question before I let you go. Since May St when the president declared major combat operations over with when he was aboard the Aircraft Carrier the Abraham Lincoln about one U.S. soldier or marine has died every day in combat/noncombat incidents. What does that have, what kind of an impact does that have on the morale of approximately 140,000 U.S. troops that are in Iraq right now?
CHRISTMAN: Wolf, there's no question it has a potentially serious affect going forward. However, this is a professional force. They are professionally led. The junior leaders, Lieutenants, Captains, Platoon Sergeants and the new leaders being installed there, John Abizaid, for example, those are wonderful leaders; they will make sure that morale stays high and, further, the army will announce, here I think, reasonably soon a rotation pattern that will alleviate some of these problems, here, going forward. So, I'm optimistic.
BLITZER:: OK, General Dan Christman, thank you for joining us.
A convicted rapist on the run. Find out how Andrew Luster spend his days as a fugitive.
Blazing Arizona, the wildfire that won't be tamed. We'll go live to the front lines.
Divided nation, divided court, the affirmative action debate heats up. We'll hear from both sides.
First, today's news quiz. Which University was the first to award a law degree to an African-American student? University of California Berkeley, Harvard, University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Yale?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. Today's Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action certainly will not stop the heated debate over the issue. With me here now to talk about the pros and cons of affirmative action, two special guest Congressman Harold Ford Jr., he's a Tennessee democrat. David Gersten, he is the executive direct of the center for equal opportunity of private policy.
Congressman, you went to the University of Michigan law school.
Is it fair that a minority student could get in with lower grades, lower law boards than a white student?
REP. HAROLD FORD JR (D), TENNESSEE: There are a lot of things that are fair and unfair about the process. I think what the court decided today was not what you described. As Justice O'Connor stated in her own opinion, or in the majority opinion, as long as race is not the only factor, sole factor, as long as there is not rigidity in how applicants are assessed, as long as there is a flexible assessment of talents and contributions and for that matter other factors, race can be considered as a factor. I the most important part of her decision is it notes even with a perfect score and perfect grades one would not be guaranteed admission into this top-notch law school known at Michigan. And certainly with low scores or low grades you are not guaranteed rejection. You are probably more likely not to be accepted, but today was a good decision for America, not just black kids, but all kids in America.
BLITZER: You think it was not a good decision they allowed affirmative action to go forward.
DAVI GERSTEN, EXEC. DIR. CENTER FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITY: I think it's a mixed decision. I am disappointed because I think that it's a missed opportunity. The court could finally have settled the issue that's been left over for 25 years.
BLITZER: Isn't the country better with a diverse population in law schools and medical schools?
GERSTEN: There's no scientific evidence that proves that.
BLITZER: Don't you think there should be black lawyers...
GERSTEN: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Latino lawyers.
GERSTEN: You know how you do that? You go back to the elementary schools and you work to try and achieve a greater education for those students who aren't succeeding.
BLITZER: Congressman, what about that?
FORD: The top military brass, including General Wesley Clark, who I think has an affiliation with this station made clear that without the efforts to diversify the ranks that we might compromise our ability to fight overseas and to protect this country. You heard the top brass in corporate American, fortune 500 company speak to how this fairly conservative tool known as affirmative action has allowed them created and market products all cross the country and all cross the world in far more effective ways.
Although it may be the kind of science that my new friend speaks of in measuring the positive impact of affirmative action, the anecdotal evidence is pretty dog gone strong. And the courts decision today as much as it made clear that a point system is not merely tailored and I would agree with my friend...
BLITZER: Race is only one factor. But there air lot of other factors that are involved as well.
Why not take a look at the entire spectrum of issues and then make a decision?
GERSTEN: Why not take the entire spectrum and exclude race?
If it's just one factor it can become the deciding factor and that should not be. The court missed an opportunity today. It has basically sent us all back to the trenches where we'll have to battle this out.
BLITZER: What the court said is that affirmative action is constitutional.
GERSTEN: Actually, no. The court said today in its 6-3 undergraduate ruling...
BLITZER: The point system was unconstitutional. But what they did say that universities can allow race to be one factor in determining whether you are accepted.
GERSTEN: It's going to be very difficult for these universities to try and enact a policy that needs this scrutiny.
BLITZER: I just spoke to the dean of admissions at the Georgetown University Law School. He says it's not going to change him at all. He says this decision lets him to continue to do what he was doing.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately this decision does open the gate. However, in order to match the type of admissions policies that are in place at the law school level, an undergraduate system will have to individually examine with the same methods used as the law school 30,000 applicants.
BLITZER: Congressman, spoken with minorities, African-Americans, Latinos, Native-Americans. Yesterday Ward Connorly was on my program from California, who says the problem with affirmative action is it stigmatizes minorities who get into Harvard and Yale and the University of Michigan, they are looked at, the only reason they got in is because they are black.
FORD: Well, it didn't stigmatize me nor any of my classmates nor any who are practicing law at some of the finest law firms in the country, even some on the hill. Working under the judiciary committee and other committee's on the hill, I think that's an argument used by those who oppose it. The reality today is the court did the right thing. It was a narrow decision, a 5-4 decision. But it made clear that race can be used as a factor.
And I think the most telling part, and I hope my friend and I can agree on this, is what Miss O'Connor -- Justice O'Connor said at the end her decision, we hope in 25 years we don't need these kinds of tools and remedies.
(CROSSTALK)
FORD: And I find myself agreeing with you that we should do something in the K through 12 side of it, because that's where the opportunities are so lost. But we shouldn't punish people if they don't get that in the front end and later in life.
BLITZER: David, go ahead.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately we've heard this in the Bakke decision 25 years ago. One of the justices actually said in 10 years this shouldn't be necessary. Here it is 15 years after that deadline has passed and we've got another 25-year extension. This is...
BLITZER: Do you feel equally as strongly about alumni legacy being a factor in getting admitted?
GERSTEN: For public institutions, I think that alumni legacies are not a good policy. I think that there are some...
BLITZER: Unconstitutional?
GERSTEN: Perhaps. But the main point is that a legacy is not the same thing as race. You are basically judging someone
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEN: We're not talking about characteristics that people can gain perhaps through their families. We're talking about the color of someone's skin.
Why should someone be judged based on the color of their skin?
FORD: The president might disagree with him.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately he does. The president applauded this decision.
BLITZER: He applauded it, but Ted Olsen, the solicitor general expressed arguments against both of these.
FORD: I was talking about the legacy kind.
BLITZER: All right. We have to leave it there. Thanks very much (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Harold Ford, David Gersten, thanks for joining us. And your both right this debate will continue. Of course we'd love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Our web question of the day is this, "Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country?"
You can log on to cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote right now.
Meanwhile in New York right now, protesters are in the streets to demonstrate against some of President Bush's policies. We're looking at these live pictures. The president delivers a speech at a political fund-raiser in New York City just over an hour or so from now. Among other things, protesters are speaking out against his policies involving Iraq, the Middle East and reproductive help. Up to 1,000 protesters are expected to be at this demonstration.
Bailing out on the runway. Find out why some passengers made a quick dash for the emergency door.
Also fire season in full swing. We'll go live to the front lines where they are battling back the flames.
And running from the law. Find out how convicted rapist Andrew Luster spent his last days of freedom.
But first, today's news quiz answer.
Which university was the first to award a law degree to an African-American student? Was it the University of California, Berkeley, Harvard, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, or Yale, the answer, Harvard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: What would you do if you looked out the window on an airliner and saw flames shooting out of an engine? At Tampa International Airport this morning, that sight so unnerved some passengers on Delta flight 1036 they activated the plane's emergency escape chutes and slid to the tarmac. A Delta spokesman says the Tampa to Atlanta flight was experiencing a normal hot start. Some of the passengers who went down the chutes were treated for minor injuries.
Frustrated firefighters see no early end to a ferocious blaze that has laid waste to more than 12,500 acres near Tucson, Arizona. Reporter Jennifer Reardon of our affiliate KBOA joins us now from the town of Oracle, a town in the wildfire's path. Jennifer, it looks pretty awesome what's going on behind you.
JENNIFER REARDON, KBOA CORRESPONDENT: Definitely is, Wolf. We are still about six to seven miles from this fire, but as you can see behind us, winds continue to fuel this blaze and the fire is literally exploding behind us. We are actually on the back side, just north of the Catalina Mountains, where this fire started. That's the mountain range, Mount Lemmon, of course, the highest part of this fire, about 9,500 feet. And that's where you see flames still burning at this point, and as we said, this fire is moving toward us, the smoke is growing thicker and thicker by the minute.
Of course, it is the most active time of the fire, in the heat of our day, about 2:45.
Go ahead and take a look at some of the video that was shot by our chief videographer, Paul Hankey (ph), earlier today, as flames continue to explode on the back side of this mountain. Smoke, of course, growing more intense, becomes a concern. But one of the towns just east of us, called San Manuel, is a mining town. People living there already predisposed to respiratory problems. But the massive smoke that's on top of them now has pieces of burned debris and ash actually falling around them. It looks like snow coming down when you are actually standing in the middle of that town.
They've advised all people with asthma, chronic bronchitis and other lung disease to get out of the area and go stay with relatives out of town.
As for those who have stayed to brave it out and watch and wait from the backyard, all this growing smoke has sparked anxiety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ART GODBOUT, ORACLE HOMEOWNER: In the beginning, we weren't at all concerned. You know, we felt bad for the people in Summerhaven. But we didn't know which way it was going to go then. Now, since it's been creeping northward, every day it gets a little more concerning for us. Nothing we can do about it. Just hope that everybody does their job right and maybe some rain would be good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REARDON: The flames are still erupting behind us. As we said, the winds have not let up all day. And this is the middle of our fire season. We just had a fire in the same area last year. They are actually hoping to move this fire to that point and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and then do a backburn and hopefully get this fire under control, but no rain in our sight for at least three weeks -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jennifer Reardon of our affiliate KBOA, thanks for that report.
As Max Factor cosmetics heir Andrew Luster appeals his rape conviction in California, more details are coming out about his capture last week in a Mexican resort town. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez reports from Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Puerto Vallarta, a safe, quiet resort town. One of the places where Max Factor heir Andrew Luster was hiding out, and where he was finally taken into custody.
Min Labanauskas is a real estate developer near Puerto Vallarta. He says Luster told him he was looking for property. Labanauskas eventually learned his client was one of America's most wanted fugitives.
MIN LABANAUSKAS, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER: And our lawyer began calling the FBI here and the American consul to find out what we should do, but couldn't make contacts.
GUTIERREZ: So Labanauskas contacted Duane Chapman, a bounty hunter called "The Dog."
LABANAUSKAS: We had spotted Andrew Luster at his hotel.
GUTIERREZ: Andrew Luster was staying here in room 20 at the Hotel Los Angeles. The hotel manager says he called himself David Carrera, and was described as quiet and polite.
LABANAUSKAS: He was a surfer and obviously living exactly the same lifestyle that he was accustomed to living in California here in Puerto Vallarta, attending the nightclubs, partying.
GUTIERREZ: Luster's time would soon be up. After a long night of clubbing, Labanauskas, Chapman the bounty hunter, and his camera crew caught up with the serial rapist.
LABANAUSKAS: At the end of following him around for four hours, he at this location was having a couple of tacos, and Mr. Chapman decided he couldn't wait any longer.
GUTIERREZ: The bounty hunter apprehended Luster, but confused bystanders called police, who then arrested both Luster and Chapman.
LABANAUSKAS: Completely different scenario than anything that we have envisioned.
GUTIERREZ: Chapman and his team now have legal problems of their own. He declined a television interview until his case is resolved, but told us he had every intention of turning Luster over to Mexican authorities, that he was only two blocks away from a police station when he was arrested.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Our hot Web question of the day is this: Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? You can still vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here are the results of our Web question of the day. Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? Look at this: 57 percent of you say helped, 43 percent of you say hurt. Remember, this is not, not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Shootout With Syria>
Aired June 23, 2003 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: A huge, huge day at the United States Supreme Court today. It could affect all of us for many years to come.
And a major move in the war on terrorism. WOLF BLITZER REPORTS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Action on affirmative action. Historical decisions from the Supreme Court. Does race have a place in college admissions?
Secret shootout with Syria. In hot pursuit of fleeing Iraqis, did U.S. forces find a new foe?
Battle on the border. High tech help for Homeland Security, or waging war against illegal migrants.
It's Monday, June 23, 2003. Hello from Washington. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting. A test case that had many across the country on pins and needles. In landmark decisions today, the Supreme Court ruled that race can indeed be considered as a factor in university admissions up to a point. Let's go straight to CNN national correspondent, Bob Franken. He's joining us from the Supreme Court -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, President Bush called this a balanced decision. But there are some among the more skeptical who are saying what the Supreme Court really had was indecision.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): If someone was hoping the Supreme Court would clear up the confused law over affirmative action, he will probably be disappointed. The decisions in the two cases were mixed, what dissenting Justice Scalia called a split double header, which seems perversely designed to prolong the controversy and the litigation. Writing for the winning 5 to 4 side in the Michigan Law School case, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said the use of race not prohibited by the equal protection clause of the constitution, that the school could utilize a subjective judgment in an effort to achieve meaningful diversity in education. The other case involved the challenge to the University of Michigan's more structured undergraduate admissions program with added points assigned to minorities. Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the 6-3 decision saying it violates the equal protection clause. That this one went too far in considering race. It was a set of rulings that allowed both sides to declare victory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What it mean is, it isn't core, is that affirmative action may still be used and the court's given us a road map to get there. And so we are very, very excited and very pleased.
TERRY PELL, PRES. CENTER FOR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS: At the end of the day, the court raised the bar and made it harder for schools to take race into account.
FRANKEN: At the end of the day, the two rulings leave a result that many believe mirror the so called Bakke decision of 1978 in which quota systems were ruled illegal, but race could still be a consideration. These decisions affect more than just school admissions.
TOM GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT APPELLATE ATTORNEY: Today's decisions are also a road map, not just for universities, but affirmative action generally. The Supreme Court has told us that so long as you have a nuanced inquiry, one that looks not just at race, but other factors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: There had been a hope that the rulings, one way or the other here, would settle the long time unsettled law on affirmative action. Wolf, there's a feeling that it remains unsettled. Wolf?
BLITZER: Bob Franken, thanks very much. Top-ranking African- Americans similarly broke ranks with the president -- with the president's statement going into this Supreme Court decision. The secretary of state, for example, Colin Powell, said earlier that race should indeed be considered a factor in determining the makeup of university student body. And the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, has said she, too, believes it is appropriate to use race as one factor in achieving a diverse student body.
The Bush administration's court brief stressed so-called race neutral options for achieving diversity. Let's get some analysis right now on what this historic decision means. For that, we bring in Andy Cornblatt, he's the dean of admissions at Georgetown University Law School here in Washington. Andy, thanks very much for joining us.
ANDY CORNBLATT, DEAN OF ADMISSIONS, GEORGETOWN LAW SCHOOL: Thank you for having me.
BLITZER: Historic decision, how will it impact you on a day-to- day basis in admitting law students?
CORNBLATT: Basically, what this decision did for us at Georgetown is to reaffirm for us that the way we have been doing this process is okay. That Justice O'Connor speaking on behalf of the majority of the court, said that as long as you deal with this issue one person at a time. You need to deal with these folks, all applicants, as individuals in a holistic way, which is what we do at Georgetown.
As long as you do that, we may take race into account as we may take lots of things into account. Geography, age, work experience, All sorts of aspects may be taken into account. What they said at the undergraduate level, was it cannot be a numeric dispositive way of dealing with it. It can't be you're All a member of some group, you All get the same number of points. That's not reading each application individually and making individual decisions. And the court said, that's what you need to do. Fortunately at Georgetown, I think at a number of the top law schools, that's what we do.
BLITZER: So the bottom line is, you're going to continue business as usual and minority students, whether African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, they won't necessarily have to get exactly the same law boards or grade point average that white students get.
CORNBLATT: That's correct. But that's also true for other white applicants. It's not a hard and fast rule that All applicants must have a certain GPA or LSAT. That's true for white and true for black, Hispanic, Native Americans, All sorts of students. These applicants come with All sorts of things to the law school, especially the Georgetown Law School, the school I'm employed by, with wonderful experience, with wonderful stories, wonderful biographies. That's what we want to consider. That's what we have considered and justice O'Connor said, by All means, keep considering it.
BLITZER: The critics though - the critics complain that a lot of white students are going to be penalized by the continuation of this affirmative action program.
CORNBLATT: Well, we don't admit anybody at Georgetown that isn't qualified. And we have exponentially more applicants than we have seats. We have over 12,000 applications for 450 seats. Lots of very qualified people, black or white or anything else are denied. But within that group of qualified students, the faculty at Georgetown Law School, the dean, the Alumni, everyone has said to us in the admissions office, read each one, one at a time. When we say best or better, that's really a relative term.
BLITZER: If Sandra Day O'Connor had come down on the other side and it had been a 5-4 decisions ruling against the University of Michigan, what would have been the impact at Georgetown University Law School and other elite schools around the country?
CORNBLATT: I think it really would have hamstrung us in an effort to get a diverse student body. I think our minority percentages would have initially dropped. We would have tried to find ways to increase our diversity. But -- and we certainly worried about that. But we were delighted and, frankly, relieved that Justice O'Connor and the majority of the court says diversity is a compelling state interest. Be sure you do it in a narrowly tailored way, which we have and which the undergraduate admissions at Michigan did not, but as long as you do that, by All means take it into account.
BLITZER: So, if it had gone the other way, do you accept, about 500 students a year?
CORNBLATT: Well, we enroll about 500 students. We admit about 1500.
BLITZER: All right. So - well, of those 500, how many of them are minority? What percentage...
CORNBLATT: About 25 percent.
BLITZER: Twenty-five percent minority. What would it have gone down to if she had ruled the other way?
CORNBLATT: Initially, I don't know for sure. Probably somewhere between 10 percent and 15 percent.
BLITZER: So it would have been...
CORNBLATT: Yes, it would have.
BLITZER: ... a huge win for those who support affirmative action. And the fact that the University of Michigan undergraduate, that point system was ruled unconstitutional, what impact does that have on you?
CORNBLATT: Almost none. I mean, I think what they say -- it means that we can't have a numeric process. We didn't beforehand, nor will we have any plans to do so. I think, at the undergraduate level, they have such a high volume of applicants, that this was a shorthand way of dealing with this. At the law school level, even though we have 12,000 applications at Georgetown, the most of any law school, it's incumbent upon us to deal with this one person at a time.
Everybody deserves individual consideration. Justice O'Connor said you must do that. While you're doing that, take in all the aspects of diversity you'd like, but make sure it's done one at time, not in some mathematic sorting.
BLITZER: Andy, stand by for a second. I want to put up on the screen, the reaction from the president, from the White House statement that was released shortly after the Supreme Court came down. "Today's decisions seek a careful balance between the goal of campus diversity and the fundamental principle of equal treatment under the law." You're familiar with the administration's brief that was filed with the Supreme Court, which was critically very, very different. They opposed the -- they said both of these cases were unconstitutional.
CORNBLATT: Law school as well. That's right.
BLITZER: So how do you explain what the president -- what the White House is saying now. Because it seems to be declaring victory in the face of what they earlier opposed. CORNBLATT: You and I both live in Washington, D.C. My guess is this is that dreaded four-letter word 'spin'. And I think they took what they had and George Bush decided he was in favor of all aspects of this. It does appear to me to be slightly different than...
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And this is an historic moment, though, in the United States.
CORNBLATT: You bet. We All were watching this extraordinarily carefully. Everyone was on their computer watching cnn.com at 10:00, because we knew it was going to be coming down either today or Thursday. And I think I -- I hope I speak for most of my colleagues, we are very relieved.
BLITZER: All right. Andy Cornblatt of Georgetown University Law School, one of the premier law schools in the country, right around the corner from here. Appreciate it very much.
CORNBLATT: Thank you, Wolf, very much.
BLITZER: It is your turn to weigh in on this story. Our web question of the day is this -- has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? We'll have the results later in this broadcast. You can vote at cnn.com/Wolf. And while you are there, I'd love to hear from you. Send me your comments. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also, of course, where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/Wolf.
In other decisions, the Supreme Court says Congress can force your local library to put anti-pornography filters on computers or lose federal funds. In a 6-3 ruling the court reinstated a law some libraries and civil liberties groups call a first amendment violation.
And the court struck down a California law intended to help holocaust survivors collect on insurance policies from the Nazi era. The 5-4 ruling called the law unconstitutional meddling by a state in foreign affairs.
A terrorist suspect stripped of most of his rights and named an enemy combatant. Find out why the Bush administration is taking this tough step.
Plus, ace of spades. U.S. forces consider DNA tests in a bid to track down Saddam Hussein.
Also, blazing Arizona. We'll take you to the front lines of the firefight.
And emergency evacuation. Find out why passengers were bailing out on the runway.
But first, let's take a look at some other news making headlines around the world. Dangerous cargo. Greek Special Forces seized a cargo ship loaded with 680 metric tons of explosives as it sailed through Greek territorial waters. Officials said documents indicated the Baltic Sky was bound for a bogus firm in Hartum.
Kenya bans flights. The government is banning flights both to and from neighboring Somalia. Kenya says it's taking the action because of what it calls a terrorism threat. Last week, U.S. officials warned of a possible terrorist attack against the American embassy in Nairobi and other U.S. interests in the country.
Powell in the Middle East. The secretary of state says a few individuals are trying to blow up the road map to peace, and they can't be allowed to succeed. Powell heads home today after three days at the World Economic Forum in Jordan.
Gay bishop. The Archbishop of Canterbury says the appointment of a gay bishop doesn't violate church teaching. The Reverend Jeffrey John appointed bishop within a diocese in southern England, says he continues in a long-term relationship with another man, but has been celibate for several years.
Gay pride in Brazil. Hundreds of thousands of people danced their way through Sao Paulo yesterday in celebration of diversity in sexuality. Police say the turnout was twice that of last year.
Trashing the prince's party. A man who bills himself as the comedy terrorist crashed Prince Williams' 21st birthday party at Windsor Castle. He was arrested and later released. A Scotland Yard investigation is under way.
And that's our look around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A shootout Along the Iraqi border, but the Iraqis didn't do the shooting. Who traded fire with the U.S. forces? A surprising story. That's coming up on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. A major new development today in the war on terror. The Bush administration has designated a Qatari man with suspected links to Al Qaeda as an enemy combatant. Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, is keeping track of this story. She's joining me here live. Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Al-Marri has been in federal custody for a year and a half. But the government says it has received fresh intelligence in recent months that led the president to reclassify him an enemy combatant, all in the name of national security.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Justice Department officials say Ali Al- Marri was an al Qaeda sleeper in the United States, tasked with helping other operatives get in position for future attacks. They say they got that information from an Al Qaeda detainee who is in a position to know. The detainee also said Al-Marri was trained in the use of poison but was not ordered to carry out any biological or chemical attack here. Other detainees place Al-Marri at the Al-Farooq terror training camp in Afghanistan and say he pledged his Allegiance to Osama bin Laden, even offering to serve as a martyr if necessary. But sources tell CNN Al-Marri was not cooperating, and that the government believes it may have a better chance of getting information from him if he's in military custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now an individual with that kind of situation is an individual who might know a lot about what could happen, might know the names of individuals, information being so key to intelligence and prevention that prevention being our number one objective we decided we would be best served with him detained as an enemy combatant.
ARENA: But Al-Marri's defense attorney told CNN, I'm skeptical that their decision is a response to new information as opposed to legal developments in the case. The government contends its case against Al-Marri was strong. Al-Marri, who entered the United States on September 10th, 2001, was not facing terrorism charges. Instead he was indicted last year for credit card fraud and for lying to federal agents about contacts with an alleged terrorist in the United Arab Emirates. Mustafa Hamed al-Hasawi. Al-Hasawi, who has been in custody since his capture in Pakistan in March is suspected of helping finance the September 11th attacks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: As an enemy combatant, al-Marri will be held in the military brig in South Carolina and will no longer have access to a lawyer. The other two enemy combatants that are in custody include Jose Padilla, the alleged dirty bomber, and Yasser Hamdi, who was caught on the battlefield in Afghanistan. Wolf?
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, thanks very much for that report. We have much more news coming up, including this. Border war down south.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GLENN SPENCER, AMERICAN BORDER PATROL: Mexico is a corrupt nation. And that corruption reaches everybody. Everybody. Nobody is exempt.
ISABEL GARCIA, CO-CHAIR DERECHOS HUMANOS: We believe that Mr. Spencer is basically a racist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: The fight over immigration turns into a high-tech battle.
Plus, no end in sight. U.S. troops face an undefined future in Iraq. How long will they really be there? And Mike Tyson, brawling again outside the ring. Will this latest fight land him back in jail?
First, in case you were out enjoying the days off, here's our weekend snapshot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): On the rise again. After a three-month slide, gasoline prices in the United States are headed back up. The latest survey shows the average price for a gallon of gas is $1.54. That's nearly three quarters of a penny higher than earlier this month. Tighter crude oil supplies and refinery glitches are blamed for the increase.
Brawl in L.A. Heavyweight champ Lennox Lewis held on to his title after a cut stopped Vitali Klitschko after six rounds. Saturday night's bought in Los Angeles ended on a sour note when the ring doctor examined Klitschko and ordered the fight stopped. Klitschko, who was bleeding badly from a cut on his left eye, was winning on all three scorecards.
Close call. Hundreds of people in Florida were allowed to return home last night after fears of flooding subsided. Homes near a dam in Manatee County were evacuated after floodwaters threatened to breach the structure. Engineers were able to pry open a stuck floodgate and the water began to drain.
Biotech protests. Hundreds of demonstrators took to the streets of Sacramento, California, yesterday as a biotech conference got under way. Activists say the meeting is an attempt by corporate farming and biotech interests to push into new markets.
Incredible opening. "The Hulk" knocked out the competition at the box office over the weekend with the big green guy pulling in nearly $63 million in ticket sales. That's the best June opening ever.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A hot issue in post-9/11 America, of course, is illegal immigration. A private group is keeping a high-tech eye on the Mexican border, saying it's helping with Homeland Security. But others say it's waging an undeclared war on migrants. CNN's Kevin Sites reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KEVIN SITES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Glenn Spencer doesn't believe the U.S. Government is doing enough to stop illegal immigration from Mexico.
SPENCER: We are not vigilantes. We are not militia. We are shedding light on the border. SITES: He wants his own private American border patrol to show them how. Testing the fleet of radio-controlled spy drones to watch the border and broadcast live images over the Internet.
SPENCER: And if that embarrasses our government into doing the job, so be it.
SITES: The U.S. Border Patrol won't comment on the American Border Patrol, other than to say it discourages these kinds of private activities. But that hasn't stopped Spencer. He says undocumented immigrants from Mexico import a culture of corruption. He claims they've already ruined California's education and health care systems and that's why he moved to Arizona.
SPENCER: Mexico is a corrupt nation. And that corruption reaches everybody. Everybody. Nobody is exempt.
GARCIA: We believe that Mr. Spencer is basically a racist.
SITES: Isabel Garcia is the co-chair of Tucson based Derechos Humanos, which champions the rights of Mexican migrants. While Spencer's group uses spy planes and high technology in its approach, Garcia's is grassroots organizing. Community meetings and weekly prayer vigils for those who have died in attempts to cross the border. Garcia says the U.S. economy would number shambles without the Mexican workers.
GARCIA: Undocumented workers pay so many, many millions in taxes and receive but a fraction of those in services that he talks about.
SPENCER: She's an agent of Mexico. She is here to aid the Mexican conquest of the southwest.
SITES: And when Spencer says Mexican conquests, he's not speaking in the abstract.
You literally feel the U.S. is being invaded...
SPENCER: No question.
SITES: ... by Mexicans?
SPENCER: By Mexico.
SITES: An idea he promotes on his Web site and on videos produced under the name, American Patrol. The Mexican consulate in Arizona says Spencer's allegation are just, quote, silly, and civil rights watchdogs, the Southern Poverty Law Center, calls American Patrol a hate group, a charge Spencer denies.
SPENCER: I'm biased in the favor of the United States of America. And I don't want Mexico to invade us. But what I do as America...
SITES: You tell me this is not racially motivated?
SPENCER: Hell no, it isn't.
SITES (on camera): Since the late '80s these 15 foot high corrugated steel walls have divided the U.S. from Mexico along most of the major border towns. Those who side with Glenn Spencer want to see more of these walls. Those who side with Isabel Garcia, want to see them come down.
(voice-over): But despite the fiery rhetoric, Spencer and Garcia both agree on one thing. U.S. Immigration controls aren't working. Not for ranchers like Wes Flowers who spends thousands to repair fences ruined by migrants crossing his property.
WES FLOWERS: We have fences cut there...
SITES: Not for the people who have died attempting to cross, which has nearly doubles from 78 and 2001 to 134 in 2002. The majority from exposure to extreme temperatures. But for many Mexicans like Nacho and Victor, who routinely cross illegally from Nogales, Mexico into Nogales, Arizona, the economic draw is impossible to resist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You make 20 bucks in two hours is what you make in all day in Mexico, you know?
SITES: And that may be the thing that neither prayers nor planes can stop. Kevin Sites, CNN on the Mexican border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Secret shootout. The war in Iraq spills over into another country. Find out who U.S. troops were firing at.
Plus, Mike Tyson fighting again. But will this land him back behind bars?
The debate that's dividing the nation and the courts. Affirmative action. Both sides will sound off right here.
And so can you. Vote now on our web question of the day. Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? Cnn.com/wolf.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: CNN live this hour, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS," live from the nation's capital. With correspondents from around the world. Here now is wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. The search for Saddam Hussein turns into a secret shootout with Syrian troops. We'll have all of that. First the latest headlines.
President Bush is speaking out in favor of biotechnology. Today he hailed new developments in the field, saying they are helping the wars on terror and famine. He was sharply critical of European countries opposed to genetically modified crops. In Sacramento, California, protesters are demonstrating again today at a biotechnology conference. Agriculture officials from around the world are attending that conference. You are looking at live pictures right now clearly some tension with opponents of biotechnology. We're still watching what's happening on the streets of Sacramento right now.
And a judge sentenced Jose Canseco to nearly a month in jail today. A hearing on whether he violated his probation by taking steroids will be held next month. Canseco is already under probation for his involvement in a fight in a nightclub in Miami two years ago.
Mike Tyson's day in court is expected to come at the end of July. Police arrested the former heavy weight champion in Brooklyn early Saturday morning after he and two other men allegedly got into a fight. Tyson is charged with assault and disorderly conduct. The charges could carry sentences of up to one year in prison.
Former Democratic governor of Vermont Howard Dean formally launched his presidential campaign today, pledging to rescue the nation from what he called a crisis. Dean harshly criticized President Bush as a divisive leader and expressed his support for civil rights, affirmative action and abortion rights.
This sad note, former Atlanta mayor, Mayor Jackson, died of a heart attack after collapsing at an airport in Washington today. First elected in 1973, Jackson was the first African-American to run a major southern city. He was also a staunch supporter of affirmative action. Jackson was 65 years old.
A new twist in the ongoing hunt for Saddam Hussein. U.S. special forces fired on a convoy fleeing from the Syrian border last week. The incident involved air power, a commando team, and ultimately Syrian border guards. Let's go live to CNN's senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre. He's sorting out all of these details for us.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it's not clear if it was a shootout, but it does appear there was some sort of exchange of gunfire in this incident.
To back up a little bit, the whole story started really with the capture of Saddam Hussein's bodyguard and close confidant, General Abi Hamid Mahmud last week. U.S. intelligence sources say that information related to that capture, not what he said, but other information, led the U.S. to target a convoy of about a half dozen vehicles leaving the border town of Heim Wednesday night, believed to be carrying former senior leaders. There was at least a hope, said one Pentagon official that Saddam Hussein or some of his sons might be among them.
According to sources, a U.S. Air Force Predator Drone armed with Hellfire missiles tracked the vehicles which split into two groups. A special AC-130 gunship was also called in. At some point the predator fired its Hellfire missiles and the AC-130 opened up as well. A commando team from task force 20 moved in -- that's the special commando task force tracking Saddam Hussein.
According to sources, some of the vehicles were heading for the border with Syria and may have been crossing the border at the time of the attack. At least three Syrian border guards were wounded, it's unclear. They were struck in the air attack or in a firefight on the ground. Pentagon sources say that part of the problem is that Syria did not stop the vehicles at the border as they've agreed to do and U.S. forces then followed them in hot pursuit.
The Pentagon is downplaying the possibility that Saddam Hussein was killed or captured in this attack. In fact, of the 20 or so people that were taken into custody, most have been let go, but a Pentagon spokesman said quote routine DNA testing will be done if appropriate based intelligence is gathered. The only person the Pentagon admits to having a DNA sample for is Saddam Hussein.
BLITZER: Alright, Jamie McIntyre with that from the Pentagon. Jamie, thanks very much.
Meanwhile, some key United States senators from both parties are saying U.S. troops will be in Iraq for a long time. The foreign relations committee members Joe Biden, Chuck Haguele and the chairman Richard Lugar are in Iraq themselves and they estimate the U.S. deployment could continue for at least five years. They say the rebuilding efforts could cost billions more than Iraq's oil industry can pay for and they also say the administration and the Congress must be straight with the American people about the commitment and the cost required.
So, are U.S. forces in Iraq to stay, can they look forward to years of ambushes and occupation duty? Joining me now with some analysis, retired U.S. Army Lieutenant General Dan Christman, the former adviser to the secretary of state. He also played a key role in NATO's peacekeeping efforts in the Balkans. General, thanks very much for joining us.
What's the answer, is this going to go on like this: the sniping, the insurgency, the counterinsurgency, the guerrilla warfare for years to come?
DAN CHRISTMAN, RETIRED U.S. ARMY LIEUTENANT GENERAL: I certainly hope not. I think the key on this things is to make certain that there is an adequate transition in Iraq, economically, and to get Saddam. I think the Syrian case is a perfect illustration of the importance, now, that we attach to getting Saddam and his sons. There is so much attached to that. The stability that we are seeing now, the stability problems, I think, derive in great part because so many believe he's alive and they attach hope that he'll be revived and come back to lead. And secondly, they, then, will attempt to destabilize Iraq in the absence of a firm indication that he's dead.
BLITZER: Well, what about creating some sort of Iraqi stabilization force?
CHRISTMAN: I think it's so significant, Wolf, that Jerry Bremer announced, just in the last 24 hours, that there will be such a force created. Apparently starting small, 10 to 12,000, a division or so of Iraqi troops up to about 40,000 over two to three years. That's huge, it's huge because you have Iraqis, now, in the responsibility of maintaining stability, but more importantly it gets numbers there. We don't have the numbers in our army and marines, any longer, to provide increased forces on the ground. That's going to come from two sources: internationally or the Iraqis. So the Iraqi announcement here, by Bremer, is huge.
BLITZER: What about this incident with Syrian border guards getting involved in a pair of fire fights with U.S. troops as they are preventing Iraqis from trying to cross into Syria. That sounds potentially as a huge issue for U.S./Syrian relationships.
CHRISTMAN: Actually, Wolf, I interpret that a little bit differently. Number one, I thing the importance of it is that we are now inexorable in our pressure to get Saddam and his sons. Second, it shows that border is air tight. It's still porous, but better than it was before the war. But now, I think Wolf, what's so curious about this is that, not withstanding this fire and some of the woundings, the U.S./Syrian rhetoric and dialogue is surprisingly modulated. Just imagine three or four months ago what would have happened had there been an incident like this prior to the war.
BLITZER: One final question before I let you go. Since May St when the president declared major combat operations over with when he was aboard the Aircraft Carrier the Abraham Lincoln about one U.S. soldier or marine has died every day in combat/noncombat incidents. What does that have, what kind of an impact does that have on the morale of approximately 140,000 U.S. troops that are in Iraq right now?
CHRISTMAN: Wolf, there's no question it has a potentially serious affect going forward. However, this is a professional force. They are professionally led. The junior leaders, Lieutenants, Captains, Platoon Sergeants and the new leaders being installed there, John Abizaid, for example, those are wonderful leaders; they will make sure that morale stays high and, further, the army will announce, here I think, reasonably soon a rotation pattern that will alleviate some of these problems, here, going forward. So, I'm optimistic.
BLITZER:: OK, General Dan Christman, thank you for joining us.
A convicted rapist on the run. Find out how Andrew Luster spend his days as a fugitive.
Blazing Arizona, the wildfire that won't be tamed. We'll go live to the front lines.
Divided nation, divided court, the affirmative action debate heats up. We'll hear from both sides.
First, today's news quiz. Which University was the first to award a law degree to an African-American student? University of California Berkeley, Harvard, University of Michigan Ann Arbor, Yale?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Welcome back. Today's Supreme Court ruling on affirmative action certainly will not stop the heated debate over the issue. With me here now to talk about the pros and cons of affirmative action, two special guest Congressman Harold Ford Jr., he's a Tennessee democrat. David Gersten, he is the executive direct of the center for equal opportunity of private policy.
Congressman, you went to the University of Michigan law school.
Is it fair that a minority student could get in with lower grades, lower law boards than a white student?
REP. HAROLD FORD JR (D), TENNESSEE: There are a lot of things that are fair and unfair about the process. I think what the court decided today was not what you described. As Justice O'Connor stated in her own opinion, or in the majority opinion, as long as race is not the only factor, sole factor, as long as there is not rigidity in how applicants are assessed, as long as there is a flexible assessment of talents and contributions and for that matter other factors, race can be considered as a factor. I the most important part of her decision is it notes even with a perfect score and perfect grades one would not be guaranteed admission into this top-notch law school known at Michigan. And certainly with low scores or low grades you are not guaranteed rejection. You are probably more likely not to be accepted, but today was a good decision for America, not just black kids, but all kids in America.
BLITZER: You think it was not a good decision they allowed affirmative action to go forward.
DAVI GERSTEN, EXEC. DIR. CENTER FOR EQUAL OPPORTUNITY: I think it's a mixed decision. I am disappointed because I think that it's a missed opportunity. The court could finally have settled the issue that's been left over for 25 years.
BLITZER: Isn't the country better with a diverse population in law schools and medical schools?
GERSTEN: There's no scientific evidence that proves that.
BLITZER: Don't you think there should be black lawyers...
GERSTEN: Absolutely.
BLITZER: Latino lawyers.
GERSTEN: You know how you do that? You go back to the elementary schools and you work to try and achieve a greater education for those students who aren't succeeding.
BLITZER: Congressman, what about that?
FORD: The top military brass, including General Wesley Clark, who I think has an affiliation with this station made clear that without the efforts to diversify the ranks that we might compromise our ability to fight overseas and to protect this country. You heard the top brass in corporate American, fortune 500 company speak to how this fairly conservative tool known as affirmative action has allowed them created and market products all cross the country and all cross the world in far more effective ways.
Although it may be the kind of science that my new friend speaks of in measuring the positive impact of affirmative action, the anecdotal evidence is pretty dog gone strong. And the courts decision today as much as it made clear that a point system is not merely tailored and I would agree with my friend...
BLITZER: Race is only one factor. But there air lot of other factors that are involved as well.
Why not take a look at the entire spectrum of issues and then make a decision?
GERSTEN: Why not take the entire spectrum and exclude race?
If it's just one factor it can become the deciding factor and that should not be. The court missed an opportunity today. It has basically sent us all back to the trenches where we'll have to battle this out.
BLITZER: What the court said is that affirmative action is constitutional.
GERSTEN: Actually, no. The court said today in its 6-3 undergraduate ruling...
BLITZER: The point system was unconstitutional. But what they did say that universities can allow race to be one factor in determining whether you are accepted.
GERSTEN: It's going to be very difficult for these universities to try and enact a policy that needs this scrutiny.
BLITZER: I just spoke to the dean of admissions at the Georgetown University Law School. He says it's not going to change him at all. He says this decision lets him to continue to do what he was doing.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately this decision does open the gate. However, in order to match the type of admissions policies that are in place at the law school level, an undergraduate system will have to individually examine with the same methods used as the law school 30,000 applicants.
BLITZER: Congressman, spoken with minorities, African-Americans, Latinos, Native-Americans. Yesterday Ward Connorly was on my program from California, who says the problem with affirmative action is it stigmatizes minorities who get into Harvard and Yale and the University of Michigan, they are looked at, the only reason they got in is because they are black.
FORD: Well, it didn't stigmatize me nor any of my classmates nor any who are practicing law at some of the finest law firms in the country, even some on the hill. Working under the judiciary committee and other committee's on the hill, I think that's an argument used by those who oppose it. The reality today is the court did the right thing. It was a narrow decision, a 5-4 decision. But it made clear that race can be used as a factor.
And I think the most telling part, and I hope my friend and I can agree on this, is what Miss O'Connor -- Justice O'Connor said at the end her decision, we hope in 25 years we don't need these kinds of tools and remedies.
(CROSSTALK)
FORD: And I find myself agreeing with you that we should do something in the K through 12 side of it, because that's where the opportunities are so lost. But we shouldn't punish people if they don't get that in the front end and later in life.
BLITZER: David, go ahead.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately we've heard this in the Bakke decision 25 years ago. One of the justices actually said in 10 years this shouldn't be necessary. Here it is 15 years after that deadline has passed and we've got another 25-year extension. This is...
BLITZER: Do you feel equally as strongly about alumni legacy being a factor in getting admitted?
GERSTEN: For public institutions, I think that alumni legacies are not a good policy. I think that there are some...
BLITZER: Unconstitutional?
GERSTEN: Perhaps. But the main point is that a legacy is not the same thing as race. You are basically judging someone
(CROSSTALK)
GERSTEN: We're not talking about characteristics that people can gain perhaps through their families. We're talking about the color of someone's skin.
Why should someone be judged based on the color of their skin?
FORD: The president might disagree with him.
GERSTEN: Unfortunately he does. The president applauded this decision.
BLITZER: He applauded it, but Ted Olsen, the solicitor general expressed arguments against both of these.
FORD: I was talking about the legacy kind.
BLITZER: All right. We have to leave it there. Thanks very much (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Harold Ford, David Gersten, thanks for joining us. And your both right this debate will continue. Of course we'd love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Our web question of the day is this, "Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country?"
You can log on to cnn.com/wolf. That's where you can vote right now.
Meanwhile in New York right now, protesters are in the streets to demonstrate against some of President Bush's policies. We're looking at these live pictures. The president delivers a speech at a political fund-raiser in New York City just over an hour or so from now. Among other things, protesters are speaking out against his policies involving Iraq, the Middle East and reproductive help. Up to 1,000 protesters are expected to be at this demonstration.
Bailing out on the runway. Find out why some passengers made a quick dash for the emergency door.
Also fire season in full swing. We'll go live to the front lines where they are battling back the flames.
And running from the law. Find out how convicted rapist Andrew Luster spent his last days of freedom.
But first, today's news quiz answer.
Which university was the first to award a law degree to an African-American student? Was it the University of California, Berkeley, Harvard, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, or Yale, the answer, Harvard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: What would you do if you looked out the window on an airliner and saw flames shooting out of an engine? At Tampa International Airport this morning, that sight so unnerved some passengers on Delta flight 1036 they activated the plane's emergency escape chutes and slid to the tarmac. A Delta spokesman says the Tampa to Atlanta flight was experiencing a normal hot start. Some of the passengers who went down the chutes were treated for minor injuries.
Frustrated firefighters see no early end to a ferocious blaze that has laid waste to more than 12,500 acres near Tucson, Arizona. Reporter Jennifer Reardon of our affiliate KBOA joins us now from the town of Oracle, a town in the wildfire's path. Jennifer, it looks pretty awesome what's going on behind you.
JENNIFER REARDON, KBOA CORRESPONDENT: Definitely is, Wolf. We are still about six to seven miles from this fire, but as you can see behind us, winds continue to fuel this blaze and the fire is literally exploding behind us. We are actually on the back side, just north of the Catalina Mountains, where this fire started. That's the mountain range, Mount Lemmon, of course, the highest part of this fire, about 9,500 feet. And that's where you see flames still burning at this point, and as we said, this fire is moving toward us, the smoke is growing thicker and thicker by the minute.
Of course, it is the most active time of the fire, in the heat of our day, about 2:45.
Go ahead and take a look at some of the video that was shot by our chief videographer, Paul Hankey (ph), earlier today, as flames continue to explode on the back side of this mountain. Smoke, of course, growing more intense, becomes a concern. But one of the towns just east of us, called San Manuel, is a mining town. People living there already predisposed to respiratory problems. But the massive smoke that's on top of them now has pieces of burned debris and ash actually falling around them. It looks like snow coming down when you are actually standing in the middle of that town.
They've advised all people with asthma, chronic bronchitis and other lung disease to get out of the area and go stay with relatives out of town.
As for those who have stayed to brave it out and watch and wait from the backyard, all this growing smoke has sparked anxiety.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ART GODBOUT, ORACLE HOMEOWNER: In the beginning, we weren't at all concerned. You know, we felt bad for the people in Summerhaven. But we didn't know which way it was going to go then. Now, since it's been creeping northward, every day it gets a little more concerning for us. Nothing we can do about it. Just hope that everybody does their job right and maybe some rain would be good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REARDON: The flames are still erupting behind us. As we said, the winds have not let up all day. And this is the middle of our fire season. We just had a fire in the same area last year. They are actually hoping to move this fire to that point and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and then do a backburn and hopefully get this fire under control, but no rain in our sight for at least three weeks -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jennifer Reardon of our affiliate KBOA, thanks for that report.
As Max Factor cosmetics heir Andrew Luster appeals his rape conviction in California, more details are coming out about his capture last week in a Mexican resort town. CNN's Thelma Gutierrez reports from Puerto Vallarta in Mexico.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Puerto Vallarta, a safe, quiet resort town. One of the places where Max Factor heir Andrew Luster was hiding out, and where he was finally taken into custody.
Min Labanauskas is a real estate developer near Puerto Vallarta. He says Luster told him he was looking for property. Labanauskas eventually learned his client was one of America's most wanted fugitives.
MIN LABANAUSKAS, REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER: And our lawyer began calling the FBI here and the American consul to find out what we should do, but couldn't make contacts.
GUTIERREZ: So Labanauskas contacted Duane Chapman, a bounty hunter called "The Dog."
LABANAUSKAS: We had spotted Andrew Luster at his hotel.
GUTIERREZ: Andrew Luster was staying here in room 20 at the Hotel Los Angeles. The hotel manager says he called himself David Carrera, and was described as quiet and polite.
LABANAUSKAS: He was a surfer and obviously living exactly the same lifestyle that he was accustomed to living in California here in Puerto Vallarta, attending the nightclubs, partying.
GUTIERREZ: Luster's time would soon be up. After a long night of clubbing, Labanauskas, Chapman the bounty hunter, and his camera crew caught up with the serial rapist.
LABANAUSKAS: At the end of following him around for four hours, he at this location was having a couple of tacos, and Mr. Chapman decided he couldn't wait any longer.
GUTIERREZ: The bounty hunter apprehended Luster, but confused bystanders called police, who then arrested both Luster and Chapman.
LABANAUSKAS: Completely different scenario than anything that we have envisioned.
GUTIERREZ: Chapman and his team now have legal problems of their own. He declined a television interview until his case is resolved, but told us he had every intention of turning Luster over to Mexican authorities, that he was only two blocks away from a police station when he was arrested.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Our hot Web question of the day is this: Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? You can still vote at cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results immediately when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here are the results of our Web question of the day. Has affirmative action helped or hurt the country? Look at this: 57 percent of you say helped, 43 percent of you say hurt. Remember, this is not, not a scientific poll.
That's all the time we have today. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Shootout With Syria>
