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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Saddam's Daughters Speak Out; Hussein Releases New Audiotape; Controversy Over Gay Bishop

Aired August 01, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: New pictures of Saddam Hussein. See what the Pentagon thinks he might look like now.
WOLF BLITZER REPORTS begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): Saddam's daughters speak out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you and I miss you as a father no more than that.

KAGAN: On the same day a new audio tape surfaces allegedly from the former leader himself.

Controversy over a gay bishop...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will have a shattering impact upon the Episcopal Church.

KAGAN: Will the controversy split the church in two?

Accused of a heartless hoax, a woman who allegedly claimed to be a long missing girl appears in court.

And, are men wired to be promiscuous, sex expert Dr. Drew Pinsky on the controversial report.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: It is Friday, August 01, 2003. Hello from CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan reporting today. Wolf is completing his week of vacation.

The U.S. Central Command has just released retouched images depicting what Saddam Hussein might look like now after weeks on the run. Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is following this development and actually has the pictures to show us -- Barbara, hello.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello to you.

These are the pictures that the CIA digitally altered and have now been passed out to U.S. troops who are on the hunt for Saddam Hussein in the Tikrit area, these pictures showing how Saddam might look, as you say, after several months on the run.

Let's take a look at some of them. The first picture we're going to show you is Saddam strikingly different with salt and pepper hair, white hair, with an Arab headdress and a short beard. As the pictures move on here we'll show you some other versions that they have passed out.

Some of these other versions of Saddam Hussein without his trademark moustache that the world has come to know, again so troops can be on the lookout if he is moving about and try and spot him, these pictures being passed out to the soldiers, to Special Forces. Here he is with snow white hair, a full snow white moustache, how he might look if he had been on the run and, again, with the trademark dark hair and a dark beard.

Now, U.S. intelligence sources also confirmed late this afternoon that this most recent audio tape they do indeed believe is the voice of Saddam Hussein but sources here at the Pentagon saying these audio tapes are really not of much concern. They expect them. They expect to hear more of them that these audio tapes they say are Saddam's last weapon as U.S. forces try and close in on him -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara, there's been a long wait to see, for the public to see these photos but I got to tell you they don't look that different or that outrageous. They don't seem that creative in terms of just changing hair color a little bit. It seems like Saddam might go to even further lengths than what they're depicting there.

STARR: Well, we do know there are also various other shall we say artist's renditions, sketches of how he might look if he was very haggard, other things like that. These are the ones that are being made public to us to demonstrate that they are trying to have some consideration in their search of how he might otherwise look but, certainly, troops are aware that his appearance might be much more radically changed.

They do believe that he is moving around constantly that he is moving around in civilian vehicles when he is on the move and that he might be trying to keep an extraordinarily low profile not moving in a large motorcade, not moving in large groups. So, they're taking all of this into consideration and simply trying to put as many ideas out there to the troops of how he might look, how he might be moving around -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon thank you for a look at those photos appreciate it.

I want to talk more now about that audio tape that Barbara was talking about the new tape that aired with the voice of Saddam Hussein, as she said. They're saying now that it is the former Iraqi leader or at one point it was believed to be at least someone claiming to be Saddam Hussein. Now, they are saying it is indeed Saddam Hussein.

Our Rym Brahimi has more on that from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new audio tape purportedly by Saddam Hussein, this time predicting his return to power.

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): We are confident that the occupying forces will collapse and surrender to the truth and the will of God and that of the people.

BRAHIMI: In a long and rambling audio tape released by the Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera, the speaker outline his detailed vision for Iraq when, in his words, things return to normal.

HUSSEIN (through translator): We have decided to consider all the missing property of the party and the government a gift to whomever has it. Use it as you see fit.

BRAHIMI: Among those who have heard the latest tape few doubt that it is Saddam Hussein and fewer believe he'll return to power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What are you talking about? He will never come back. He's a fugitive. He's on the run. He's finished.

BRAHIMI: Even after U.S. forces toppled Saddam Hussein's regime in April, it took weeks for most people to rest assured that after nearly 25 years Iraq's strong man had really fallen from power.

Just before the war began, Saddam Hussein reminded Iraqis of how the uprisings that followed the 1991 Gulf War had been dealt with by a brutal repression in the north and south and the killing of thousands who dared oppose his rule. Now, four months into the U.S. occupation of Iraq, the fear instilled in past years has subsided and Iraqis speak out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ninety percent of the Iraqi people would not welcome Saddam back and should he declare jihad no one would comply.

BRAHIMI: But even as most here relegate Saddam Hussein to the past there are many who see those resisting the U.S. occupation as worthy combatants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Saddam Hussein is a criminal president and we don't want him here. We want a new government and those who launch attacks against the U.S. forces are true Fedayeen.

BRAHIMI: The slogan of many Iraqis who are disappointed and losing patience with the U.S. authorities in their country, "Neither Saddam nor the U.S."

Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: All right, let's get now to the exclusive interview that you're going to see only here on CNN, the two oldest daughters of Saddam Hussein. They are now in Jordan. They are talking to CNN about the former Iraqi dictator who they say was a loving father but do they know where he is? That's a big question as a massive American manhunt for Saddam captures two more loyalists.

Let's go now to the interview with Jane Arraf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER: To (unintelligible) once again, of course not now, maybe in the far future not less than ten years for me. The answer is not related to any political situation. It's related to my feelings. I feel this way, you know, more than that.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten years because it's so painful now?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: Of course, so painful for me and for my children, so difficult to be there once again.

RANA HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER (through translator): I'm in so much pain for what's happening right now in Iraq. We hope that in the future it will get better if God is willing then to return. We will see what is going to happen. We will decide who they're going to choose first there before we go.

ARRAF: Your husbands were killed in 1996 before you went back. Did you have what you would consider normal lives?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: I beg your pardon?

ARRAF: Did you feel as if you had normal lives in Iraq before the things that happened to you after you came to Jordan in '95?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: You mean before 1995? Yes, it was a normal life. In a way it was a normal life.

ARRAF: Were you happy?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: (Unintelligible) at that time. Yes, we were happy.

RANA HUSSEIN (through translator): Of course we were with our families. We were in our country. We were with our husbands and our family was very bonded and we were all together the sisters, the brothers, our father, his relationship with my mother. We were an example family to give to people but things changed after 1995.

ARRAF: If you had a message that could get to your father what would it be?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: I love you and I miss you as a father no more than that. RANA HUSSEIN (through translator): It's very hard for me to express by words how I feel for him and the love I have for him. Every moment I think about him and I hope that God will protect him and keep him safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARRAF: Now, that's a very different view of Saddam Hussein than we usually hear. That was Raghad, 35, Rana, 32, two apparently beloved children of Saddam Hussein who say they just miss their father, hope to see him again, and despite what the rest of the world thinks of him they say he was a loving father -- Daryn.

KAGAN: It's kind of hard to understand how these women would see Saddam Hussein as a loving father since he was responsible for the murders of their two husbands.

ARRAF: I asked them that because there is obviously that disconnect there and they said that although they had been -- the relationship had suffered after their husbands were lured back and killed essentially at their father's orders and essentially by the hands of their brothers -- I'm sorry, we've just got a wedding starting back here, Daryn -- that that had been resolved and although there have been differences they were still obviously very close to their father.

They also said that they came from the kind of family where daughters were obedient as were sons and no matter what their father had done they still saw him as doing the best for him was what they implied.

There is truly a disconnect there but one that they said didn't really make them uncomfortable that he was the kind of man, the kind of man -- the side of him that they saw was far different from what the rest of the world thought of it and they persist in believing that he was a good father and essentially a good man as well -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, we'll have to leave that part at that. What about their mother, the other wives of Saddam Hussein, and their other siblings who are still living? Where are they and do they tend to try to reconnect with them?

ARRAF: Fascinating stuff, they had what sounded like a very dramatic and painful family meeting five days before the beginning of the war and they say that's the last time they saw their other family members.

The last time they spoke with their father, the last time they saw or spoke with their mother, Sajida, with whom they're very, very close, Sajida's whereabouts are unknown. She was believed to have been sheltered by an Iraqi tribe close to the Syrian border. She is also believed to have sought refuge in a couple of countries.

Their younger sister Hala, here whereabouts also unknown but she's believed to be in Iraq. Whereabouts of her brothers, of course, completely known, they are dead although not yet buried and the two women are in mourning for them. They said they didn't believe their mother would know where Saddam Hussein was that given the kind of man he was that he wouldn't have told her and she wouldn't have known.

She was, though, known to have been in contact with the youngest son Qusay. She is believed to have sent him a message saying that he should not take his son with him. He did. That son was killed along with the two brothers and that's part of that sad saga -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A fascinating look inside this family. People are only going to see it right here on CNN. Jane, good work, thanks for bringing that interview to us, much appreciated.

We move on now with our coverage and that huge U.S. manhunt for Saddam may have tightened the noose a couple more notches today with the capture of two more Saddam loyalists.

Now, Harris Whitbeck has the latest. He's in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit -- Harris.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

The raid that netted these two individuals occurred around four o'clock this afternoon here. U.S. Special Forces and troops from the U.S. Army's 4th Infantry Division raided a house on the outskirts of town. There they found these two people who are being described now as close associates of Saddam Hussein.

That raid was protected by attack helicopters, Apache attack helicopters, which is usually pretty standard operating procedure in this type of situation. But, anyway, the U.S. forces on the ground in Tikrit have been quite busy over the last several days.

There was some activity overnight just a few hours ago on the other side of the Tigris River, the outskirts of town, sporadic gunfire heard there and, again, the U.S. military here saying that it will continue these raids and these operations, patrols, what have you, until they find who they're looking for -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Harris, just a little bit more about this city of Tikrit. As you have said throughout the day this is the ancestral homeland of Saddam Hussein. I would imagine there are a lot more than just the two loyalists that they captured today in terms of people who are loyal to Saddam Hussein.

WHITBECK: That's correct. The area of Tikrit is his ancestral homeland. It's the land of his tribe and so there are a lot of his tribal clansmen who live here. A lot of former Ba'ath Party officials have summer residences here.

This town was very well taken care of during the Saddam Hussein years. It is comparatively wealthy and that wealth is quite notable especially when you compare this with other areas in Iraq. So, that has also contributed to a lot of loyalty around here toward Saddam Hussein.

KAGAN: Harris Whitbeck in Tikrit, Iraq, thank you for that report.

We have other news still ahead including the fight over the gay bishop and same-sex unions. We're going to hear from both sides of the debate that is threatening to split the Anglican Church in two.

Plus, she is accused of pulling a very cruel hoax pretending to be a girl who was kidnapped many years ago. Now, Donna Walker faces justice.

And, nature versus nurture, are men just destined to be promiscuous? Dr. Drew shares the buzz on the birds and the bees.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We now focus on a woman who is accused of what officials call an unbelievably cruel hoax calling the family that has been missing a daughter for about 17 years.

For the latest now on Donna Walker, who was in court today, let's check in with Jeff Flock who is in Topeka, Kansas -- Jeff.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Daryn.

This week started with such great promise, the thought that this little girl, Shannon Sherrill, six years old when she disappeared 17 years ago, may have turned up alive here in Kansas. The week ends with great disappointment with this woman Donna Walker, the woman who perpetrated the hoax, now being held on $100,000 bond.

Let's take you inside the Shawnee County, Kansas courthouse. You see behind me pictures of Donna Walker. She made her first court appearance. As we said, the judge in the case holding her on $100,000 bond on charges of identity deception and false reporting. One of those is a felony.

She is to be extradited to Indiana to face these charges but her attorney says she's going to fight it the attorney saying that it wasn't so much a matter of -- a criminal matter, more a matter of the woman being mentally ill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY RORK, WALKER'S ATTORNEY: I haven't been convinced a crime has occurred. I think there are some tragedies that have occurred and some very emotional circumstances have occurred but whether that's a crime that hasn't been determined yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLOCK: And so, that leaves the picture that you perhaps remember from earlier this week, that family of Shannon Sherrill at that press conference on live television with their great disappointment. It also leaves that little girl, now 23 years old if she's still alive, out there somewhere and not home with her folks.

The only positive people say, investigators say, that could come out of this is perhaps this has refocused new attention on the search for Shannon Sherrill and maybe somewhere somebody out there will find her but she's not to be found here in Topeka, Kansas where this woman remains as we said being held on bond. That's it from here, Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Yes, Jeff, right now just a whole lot of pain to go all the way around, Jeff Flock, in Topeka, thank you for that.

We move on now to the stage which has been set for a showdown vote that some say could split the Episcopal Church and throw the worldwide Anglican community into chaos. At issue, Gene Robinson, he's an openly gay priest who's been elected to be the next bishop of New Hampshire.

Debate over his appointment has dominated the church's triennial convention which normally approves all candidates for bishops. Today, a key committee voted in favor of Robinson. A final vote is scheduled for Monday. Some conservatives have threatened to split from the church if he is indeed approved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDY DALES, EPISCOPALIAN: The choice was of a person. It was about a ministry not an issue. We were led overwhelmingly to call Gene Robinson for his humanity not his sexuality.

MARY HAYES, EPISCOPALIAN: Bishops in particular are called to guard the faith and to proclaim the word of God and their lives are meant to demonstrate what the Scriptures say to be a wholesome example to the entire flock of Christ. The Scriptures, the word of God, which we vow to uphold are clear. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: We're going to talk live with both sides in this controversy. We're going to do that in just a few minutes.

First, though, we want to bring this issue down to a personal level. Ella Robinson is Gene Robinson's daughter and she spoke today at the convention on behalf of her father. She's joining us live now from Minneapolis. Ella, thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it.

ELLA ROBINSON, BISHOP-ELECT'S DAUGHTER: Thank you for having me.

KAGAN: So, you went before this committee that is trying to decide the fate of your dad if indeed he should be a bishop. What did you say?

ROBINSON: I was basically there to kind of tell our family story. There have been some things in the press that have said that my father abandoned his wife and children included in that and I was there just to say how untrue that was. I'm far from abandoned, probably couldn't have gotten rid of him if I'd wanted to and so I was there just to tell about how much love and support we have from our family and always have. KAGAN: So, you wanted to set the record straight if nothing else that Gene Robinson has been a great dad and continues to be a great dad.

ROBINSON: Absolutely above and beyond.

KAGAN: But I'm sure you can appreciate as a young adult that this is about more. This isn't about being father of the year. This is a whole other issue about being a religious leader and you understand why people might have some problems with the idea of homosexuality.

ROBINSON: Absolutely, yes, and I wanted to do my part in telling people that he has been a great father and I obviously do know that it's more than that but, you know, there's a lot of the same qualities in a bishop and I wanted to give them my two cents.

KAGAN: As a daughter, is it hard to hear people say stuff about your dad?

ROBINSON: Absolutely, it's a little personal but, you know, we have respect for both sides of the issue and I really believe that we're fighting the good fight here and I believe in my father so much and that he really is following his call so we try to take it all in stride and stay positive.

KAGAN: Well, we're not the committee but if you could briefly tell us why your dad would be a good bishop for the church.

ROBINSON: Absolutely. The people of New Hampshire and the diocese there have elected him. They know and love him. He's been in the diocese for much longer than I've been even alive and, you know, he really cares for the people of the state and will be such a great leader.

He is so caring, loves working with the youth. We have our youths here from New Hampshire and most are supportive absolutely and it's just a great leader and so caring and sensitive to the people of the diocese.

KAGAN: Well, if nothing else, this was a big father/daughter moment. Your dad came out later and talked about just how proud he was of you and it's clear that it goes both ways that you're proud of your dad as well.

ROBINSON: Absolutely. I couldn't be more proud of him.

KAGAN: Ella Robinson thanks for taking time to share a little peek inside of your family. I know it's been a challenging time for the Robinson family and it's been nice to talk with you.

ROBINSON: Well, thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

Well, there you have the daughter's perspective. Clearly, there are people within the church and outside of the church that have a different perspective on whether Gene Robinson should be a bishop in the Episcopal Church. We're going to have a debate coming up. That is just ahead after the commercial break.

Also coming up for you, we have an amazing medical milestone. It is the incredible story of the world's first triple swap kidney transplants.

And later, how about incredible stories for this one, a photo cell phone that new one they take the pictures, a teenager used it to save himself from being kidnapped and helped police capture a suspect. We have his story just ahead as well after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, for more on the church controversy and whether Gene Robinson should be approved as a bishop in the Episcopal Church.

I'm joined from Minneapolis now by the Reverend Ed Bacon. He is rector of All Saints Church in Pasadena, California. That is, by the way, one of the largest Episcopal churches in the country. Also joining us form Minneapolis is Diane Knippers. She is president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy.

Good afternoon to both of you. Thank you for being with us.

REV. ED BACON, ALL SAINTS CHURCH, PASADENA, CALIFORNIA: Good afternoon.

DIANE KNIPPERS, INSTITUTE ON RELIGION AND DEMOCRACY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Diane, I'm going to go ahead and start with you because there was a key move today by this executive committee that did approve Gene Robinson to be a bishop. Of course it has to go to a full vote, which will work its way through the weekend, but what do you think about today's vote?

KNIPPERS: Well, I was very disappointed on today's vote, not surprised. I think we're going to see a real cliffhanger when we get to the House of Deputies and House of Bishops.

KAGAN: Reverend, let's bring you in here. Even for those people who believe that Gene Robinson should be a bishop, is it worth, do you believe in the cause so much that it would split the church? Would it be worth splitting the church?

BACON: It would not split the church. It is a very, very important issue but it will not split the church and those who claim that it will split the church are simply trotting out a list of fears. It's not going to split the church. The church will be exultant.

KAGAN: How do you figure...

BACON: The church will grow as a result of this.

KAGAN: You see growth rather than a split then. Diane, what about you?

BACON: Oh, no doubt.

KNIPPERS: There's absolutely no question that this is going to shatter the Anglican Communion. The Episcopal Church is less than four percent of the worldwide Anglican Communion, some 70 million people.

Ours is a minority view that's being expressed and the people who are warning that this is going to be a church shattering experience aren't making threats. They're simply making warnings.

We saw a preview of this in New Westminster, a diocese in Canada that's lost now 25 percent of its people and nearly 20 percent or more of its budget. It's a devastated diocese in Canada and that's just a little picture of what we are going to see here in the United States. The arrogance of not listening to the larger church is just breathtaking in this issue. It's very distressing.

KAGAN: Well, this is definitely a difficult time where the church is taking on some very challenging issues that seem to surround the topic of homosexuality and I'd just in the minute we have left I'd like to ask each of you what you think will happen tonight when the church votes on the topic of blessing same-sex unions? Reverend, you go first please.

BACON: Well, actually the vote will not come up tonight. Tonight will be a hearing and it will be a very exciting time when people will be standing to testify about the new thing that God is doing and about this wonderful invitation that is coming to the church to express the radically inclusive love of God. It is a very exciting and enjoying time for the Episcopal Church and it will be, in time, for the Anglican communion as well.

KAGAN: Diane, how do you think it's going to play out and why do I suspect you don't see this as a very joyful time?

KNIPPERS: I think our church, which is an upper middle class elite church, is captive to the values of this nation, the very sexualized values of so much of our society and it is betraying our children, who are looking for examples, who are looking for people who can hold on to the ideal of marriage. It's a terrible betrayal of the good news that we have to offer about marriage and about human sexuality as God truly intended it.

KAGAN: Well, your church is definitely...

BACON: It's unfortunate...

KAGAN: I'm sorry, reverend, we're out of time. I'm just going to have to go ahead and thank you and say that the church is on the frontlines of a very difficult and moral issues and discussions and we respect you for being there today to help us look and to see how the church is handling it and debating it.

Thank you to both of you, Reverend Ed Bacon, and Diane Knippers. We appreciate your time.

KNIPPERS: Thanks.

KAGAN: Thank you.

Well, on the topic of same sex unions, a Canadian Roman Catholic bishop is pressuring Prime Minister Jean Chretein to oppose gay marriages in that country. Bishop Fred Henry of Calgary is quoted as saying that Chretein, who is a Catholic, is risking his eternal salvation by backing same sex marriages. This week the Vatican called on Catholic lawmakers all around the world to fight against gay unions.

Well, it is your turn to weigh in on the story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you think religious institutions should bless same sex unions?" We'll have the results later in the broadcast. You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, why don't you take a couple of minutes and we'd like to hear from you. Sends us your comments and we might read some of them at the end of the program.

Profilers helping the Pentagon in the hunt for Saddam Hussein. We're going to take a look inside the mind of a fallen dictator.

Also, a kidnapping foiled by a cell phone. Find out how a high- tech kid caught a potential abductor in the act.

And the big buzz on the birds and the bees. There's men, women, and promiscuity. Dr. Drew joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: U.S. Central Command is adding ammunition to the massive search for Saddam Hussein. Just a short while ago, CENTCOM released a series of images on how Saddam may look now, nearly four months after being ousted from power. The images are being used by those American troops directly involved in the hunt for Saddam.

Another less publicized weapon is that of a psychological profiler. Joining us with personal expertise on that is Jerrold Post. He is a former CIA profiler and he is the author of "The Psychological Assessment of Political Leaders."

Good afternoon to you. Thanks for being with us.

JERROLD POST, FORMER CIA PROFILER: My pleasure.

KAGAN: Did you have a chance to look at those photos?

POST: Yes, I did, and what is sad irony this man who so was consumed with his own image, which was plastered all over Baghdad, now may be reduced to disguised that image. It must be a dreadful blow to his ego.

KAGAN: When you're looking at someone like Saddam Hussein, are we talking about somebody who is insane or mad? POST: We certainly are not. This is a man, however, who has been consumed by dreams of glory since his very early years, dreams he hoped to pass on to the next generation. He really saw in Qusay and Uday, as his successors, almost extending his immortality. So it really is Saddam at the end of the line literally -- the Saddam line stops here and rather than passing on to his son this powerful empire, instead it's the shattered ruins of these dreams.

KAGAN: In reading some of your thoughts before the interview, I hear you use a term called malignant narcissism, that it applies to Saddam. What do you mean by that?

POST: Well, it's sort of the very magnification of such extreme self-absorption. There's no capacity to empathize with the pain or suffering of others. Being paranoid -- not paranoid crazy, but being ready to be betrayed, ready to strike out against his enemies, no constraint of conscience and using whatever aggression is necessary to accomplish his goals without qualm of conscience. That's a very dangerous combination.

But for this kind of narcissist to be feasting on being in the very center of world acclaim, which he was -- he had achieved his goals in 1990. The whole world saw him as a liberator of Jerusalem, potentially, as the inheritor of Saladin. And here to be skulking around in cellars and disguising is -- what a shatter of his dreams.

KAGAN: Our time is short. Let's bring it to the present and talk about the idea of profiling like this could actually help in the hunt for Saddam Hussein.

POST: Well, in a technical sense, the more we are able to try to get into his mind and say, "How is he standing up to this stress? What will he do? How can we -- what can we read into these messages he keeps coming across with? -- the better able -- we are to zero in. I see him trying to call upon an increasingly diminishing band of supporters. And this is kind of bomb to a shattered self.

KAGAN: And the hunt goes on. Jerrold Post, thanks for insight and into a profile -- a psychological profile of Saddam Hussein. I appreciate that and your thoughts.

In other inter -- thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.

Other international news now. Foreign ministers from West African nations are in Monrovia. They are trying to persuade Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down when peacekeepers arrive and that could happen as soon as Monday. But Taylor isn't even in the capital where the conditions are going downhill.

Our Jeff Koinange is in Monrovia and he has an update.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What was supposed to be a two- hour meeting with embattled President Charles Taylor has turned into an overnight stay. West African foreign ministers were in the capital of Monrovia Friday but they did not get to see the president because he was out of town. According to his spokesman he had gone to the second port city of Buchanan, where fresh fighting has broken out.

In the meantime, the city of Monrovia came under further attack on this 12th day of straight fighting. About nine people were killed and a mortar shell and fell into a crowded neighborhood. All this while the same West African foreign minister say they will stay as long as they have to in order for them to deliver the message, the message being that peacekeepers will be on the ground as early as Monday, and that three days after they're on the ground, embattled President Charles Taylor is to step down and leave the country.

In the meantime, tens of thousands of Liberians continue to flee the capital, fleeing the mortar shells and the RPG rocket-propelled grenades that are reigning down on civilian neighborhoods. People are hoping that the peacekeepers will be here sooner rather than later to save them from all of this misery.

Jeff Koinage, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: We have some amazing medical news just ahead. An operation for the record books, really. A simultaneous kidney transplant. It involves six donors and recipients. Coming up, how a triple swap kidney transplant was made possible.

Also, sexual desire and DNA, a new sex report surveys thousands of men and women. Sex advise expert Dr. Drew talks about the controversial findings.

And how a teenage boy helped capture a suspected kidnapper using a cell phone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A 15-year-old boy in New Jersey turned the tables on a would be kidnapper this week. When he tried to pick him up he used his cell phone's camera to take pictures of both the man and the license tag on the car. Incredible heroism on the part of this young man. Maria Hinojosa has the details from New York. Maria, one word, wow!

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No kidding, Daryn. This is how a story about how a 15-year-old took that technology that trips some of us up, like me, for example, and used it to his best advantage. How? By thinking quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: You've seen the ads for the funky cell phones that take pictures.

KATHLEEN DUNLEAVY, SPRINT: People really want to share the moment so they want to share pictures of their family, their friends, travel, pets those kinds of things are very... HINOJOSA: Pets?

DUNLEAVY: Pets, yes.

HINOJOSA: Lots of pets.

DUNLEAVY: Yes, lots of pets.

HINOJOSA: It's primarily a fun kind of gadget costing between 100 to $300.

DUNLEAVY: We made this technology to be very simple to use so that all people have to do is point, click, and send it immediately to any e-mail address.

HINOJOSA: And there it is. Within seconds, photos of the moment right on your e-mail. For only $15 an month more for your cell phone service.

Those cell phone cameras might be fun but on Tuesday night, that cute little gadget may have helped prevent a crime taking place right on this street corner. That night a 15-year-old boy was approached, police say, by a 59-year-old man in a white car. The man allegedly began soliciting the boy sexually, but the boy with the cell phone camera realized it might protect him.

CAPT. ROBERT ROWAN, CLIFTON POLICE: He took a photograph of the suspect while he was in the car, trying to convince him to get into the car. And so he actually took a picture of a crime in progress. And he also took a picture of the car, including the plate number.

HINOJOSA: The license plate number led police to this social club where William McDonald, the suspect, worked.

Are you thinking that there are going to be a lot of parents who are going to say, want you to get a cell phone and I'm getting you one with a camera?

ROWAN: I think that it mark's the beginning of a new era where people can use this type of technology, not only juveniles but adults as well, to protect themselves in certain situations.

HINOJOSA: Situations where people who aren't daunted by new technology are able to think quickly, even when they don't have their owner's manual at hand approximately.

William McDonald was charged with criminal restraint, attempting to lure a juvenile into a vehicle and simple assault. Police say he hasn't entered a plea but they could not say whether he has a lawyer to represent him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, McDonald is being held on $25,000 bail. But, Daryn, one more interesting fact, although this is one of the first times a cell phone camera may have been used to prevent a major crime, cell phones have been used for safety a lot. A cell phone industry group says that in 2001, almost 156,000 calls were made to 911 daily -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ah, but the phone can't do it by itself. It takes a quick-thinking young man like the one in this case. So good for him. Maria, thank you for that.

Another incredible story to share with you this afternoon, and that is doctors at Johns Hopkins say they believe this is a first. Three patients needing kidney transplants came in with their own potential donors. None of those were a match, but each of the donors did match with the other patients. So doctors did a triple swap. The entire group met up today. Andy Barth with our affiliate WMAR was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERMAINE ALLUM, RECEIVED NEW KIDNEY: Now that I have a new kidney, my life can start again. We can get married. I can have children. I can move on with my life.

ANDY BARTH, WMAR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To receive a life- saving kidney, you need a donor and compatible match. Here's how three lives were saved. Granted, this is a little complicated but it's worth it, so work with me.

These three people all needed kidneys. These three people were willing to donate theirs. It was supposed to go one to one two to two and three to three. But those pairings weren't compatible so the donations went one to two, two to three and three to one. But those numbers were real people. Paul wanted to donate to his fiancee, Germaine. Connie wanted to donate to her sister,Stacey, and so on. When the matches wouldn't work, Hopkins found new matches.

DR. ROBERT MONTGOMERY, JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL: Essentially what we did was swapped kidneys between these three donors and these three recipients. So everyone would receive a blood type compatible organ that was not likely to be rejected.

BARTH: But this had never been done before.

MONTGOMERY: I think we were all truly amazed that this all worked out. It was a eureka type of moment when they solved this puzzle.

BARTH: It was also a life-changing moment.

CONNIE DICK, DONATED KIDNEY: By me giving my kidney to somebody five other people medicine and that's always going to be special to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because of them, my friend, Jeremy, has a great kidney from Paul.

DICK: I think it's great. It's a new life for me.

BARTH: It took six teams of 12 surgeons and 12 nurses in six operating rooms to pull this off.

MONTGOMERY: The logistics of having the recipient ready at the time that the donor kidney was ready to come out, you can imagine were pretty staggering.

BARTH: But it happened without a hitch. Over 11 hours and strangers became almost family.

DICK: I looked into Tracy's eyes and just felt a bond that I never really thought about.

BARTH: Jeremy got Paul's kidney, a perfect match. Tracy got Julia's.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without them, I wouldn't be here right now.

MONTGOMERY: Like kidney matchmakers, they were looking for just such a miracle.

BARTH: It took faith and trust, skill and luck, timing and a lot of work, for it all to come together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how to put it into words, but it's really, really nice.

BARTH: This is Andy Barth, reporting for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: You want to be sure and join Wolf on Monday. He'll be back here and have a chance to talk with the lead surgeon, Dr. Robert Montgomery.

Still ahead, we're talking sex. There's a new report out there that ignites a firestorm of controversy over what is normal for men and women. Coming up, the fierce debate over the role that DNA plays in sex, lust, and fidelity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, is it your hardware or your software? That's the question at the center of the latest debate on human sexuality. Are men simply wired genetically to want more sex partners and does that mean that a man's promiscuous behavior is somehow normal?

Well, there's a new study out. It analyzed 16,000 men and women worldwide. And frankly, it says yes.

That brings us to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the co-host of "Loveline," who is going to help us figure out what this all means.

Dr. Drew, good to have you with us.

DR. DREW PINKSY, "LOVELINE": Thanks, Daryn. Appreciate it. That's a great way to ask the question. Is it hardware or is it software? Is it nature or is it nurture? KAGAN: What do you think?

PINSKY: Well, anyone that works in this field, I think would have at least this to say in agreement. That is, it is both. And there is a large component that is biological, is genetic and we're getting more and more information about this everyday.

The fact is men and women differ by an entire chromosome. Should we be surprised, then, that there's difference in their biological endowments? We differ from chimpanzees by about 300 base pair. Far, far less -- maybe important base pairs, admittedly -- but far less genetic material differentiate from a chimpanzee than the genders from one another.

KAGAN: Well, the basic question here is, they're asking these men and women all around 2 world, and what's interesting is we're talking to different cultures, different countries. How many sex partners would you want over a month? And basically men were saying they wanted more than women.

PINKSY: That's right, that they have an urge, they have a desire, they have a drive for more diversity. This is something that's been observed throughout human history. It's not new information. It's just something that's been done in a very careful and scientific way in this study. And most people feel that this study is rather conclusive, that it's just saying, Look, we're not saying it's good or bad, it just is.

In fact, the reality is, most biological anthropologist would say that women have contained men's behavior over the years.

KAGAN: Well good for us, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That's absolutely right, and we shouldn't be saying that this is somehow a good thing or that society -- that we should be using this as an excuse of damaging or unhealthy behaviors. But it's a natural biological urge that needs to be contained. And we need to raise our children accordingly and plan for this.

KAGAN: So, I mean, to be kind of crass, you're saying, you know, men are pigs but they can't help themselves? Or where are we going with this?

PINSKY: Let me be very clear. Men are pigs and they can help themselves.

KAGAN: OK.

PINSKY: That's the point. And when women have helped us throughout the centuries.

And there's just differences. There are difference and it's genetic and it's biological and why should we pretend that these exist -- these don't exist? Why not acknowledge what they are, measure them, identify them and then plan for them? And sort of shape people's behaviors accordingly to do things that are, in fact, more healthy and not allow young people to use these biological realities as an excuse for behaviors that may or may not be healthy.

KAGAN: So be realistic. But also, in terms of become realistic with studies like this, you have to think of how they are. If someone asks somebody, asks a woman, you know, how much sex do you want? How many sexual partners do you want? Do you think , no matter what culture you're talking about, that they might, men and women might craft their answers differently given by what they are expected to say?

PINSKY: Right. That is the argument against these sorts of studies and that's why they went to many different cultures, because different cultures have different attitude about these things. And yet throughout all the cultures, these things exists.

When it comes to men, you can't get them to not say these things. And no matter how hard you try, it's very hard to shape these drives. You know, we've known forever what testosterone does to the human being. That's not a surprise. That's not new information. It has a genetic basis to it. If we take someone and change their gender and start giving them testosterone when they're a female, it changers their sexual desire, it changes their drive, it changes their needs for diversity. We know this.

KAGAN: Dr. Drew, with that I'm going to have to jump in and say thank you for helping us understand men just a little bit better. It was worth coming to work today.

PINSKY: I hope so.

KAGAN: Appreciate it. Dr. Drew Pinksy, talking about the sex today. Appreciate that.

Well, our hot "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you think religious institutions should bless same-sex unions?" Vote now at cnn.com/wolf. The results for you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Just enough time to see how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day": "Do you think that religious institutions should bless same-sex unions?" Overwhelmingly, 76 percent of you said no, 24 percent of you said yes.

That's going to do it for us. I am Daryn Kagan. I've been filling in all this week for Wolf Blitzer.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Audiotape; Controversy Over Gay Bishop>


Aired August 1, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: New pictures of Saddam Hussein. See what the Pentagon thinks he might look like now.
WOLF BLITZER REPORTS begins right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN (voice-over): Saddam's daughters speak out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love you and I miss you as a father no more than that.

KAGAN: On the same day a new audio tape surfaces allegedly from the former leader himself.

Controversy over a gay bishop...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will have a shattering impact upon the Episcopal Church.

KAGAN: Will the controversy split the church in two?

Accused of a heartless hoax, a woman who allegedly claimed to be a long missing girl appears in court.

And, are men wired to be promiscuous, sex expert Dr. Drew Pinsky on the controversial report.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: It is Friday, August 01, 2003. Hello from CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan reporting today. Wolf is completing his week of vacation.

The U.S. Central Command has just released retouched images depicting what Saddam Hussein might look like now after weeks on the run. Our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr is following this development and actually has the pictures to show us -- Barbara, hello.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello to you.

These are the pictures that the CIA digitally altered and have now been passed out to U.S. troops who are on the hunt for Saddam Hussein in the Tikrit area, these pictures showing how Saddam might look, as you say, after several months on the run.

Let's take a look at some of them. The first picture we're going to show you is Saddam strikingly different with salt and pepper hair, white hair, with an Arab headdress and a short beard. As the pictures move on here we'll show you some other versions that they have passed out.

Some of these other versions of Saddam Hussein without his trademark moustache that the world has come to know, again so troops can be on the lookout if he is moving about and try and spot him, these pictures being passed out to the soldiers, to Special Forces. Here he is with snow white hair, a full snow white moustache, how he might look if he had been on the run and, again, with the trademark dark hair and a dark beard.

Now, U.S. intelligence sources also confirmed late this afternoon that this most recent audio tape they do indeed believe is the voice of Saddam Hussein but sources here at the Pentagon saying these audio tapes are really not of much concern. They expect them. They expect to hear more of them that these audio tapes they say are Saddam's last weapon as U.S. forces try and close in on him -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Barbara, there's been a long wait to see, for the public to see these photos but I got to tell you they don't look that different or that outrageous. They don't seem that creative in terms of just changing hair color a little bit. It seems like Saddam might go to even further lengths than what they're depicting there.

STARR: Well, we do know there are also various other shall we say artist's renditions, sketches of how he might look if he was very haggard, other things like that. These are the ones that are being made public to us to demonstrate that they are trying to have some consideration in their search of how he might otherwise look but, certainly, troops are aware that his appearance might be much more radically changed.

They do believe that he is moving around constantly that he is moving around in civilian vehicles when he is on the move and that he might be trying to keep an extraordinarily low profile not moving in a large motorcade, not moving in large groups. So, they're taking all of this into consideration and simply trying to put as many ideas out there to the troops of how he might look, how he might be moving around -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right, Barbara Starr at the Pentagon thank you for a look at those photos appreciate it.

I want to talk more now about that audio tape that Barbara was talking about the new tape that aired with the voice of Saddam Hussein, as she said. They're saying now that it is the former Iraqi leader or at one point it was believed to be at least someone claiming to be Saddam Hussein. Now, they are saying it is indeed Saddam Hussein.

Our Rym Brahimi has more on that from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RYM BRAHIMI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new audio tape purportedly by Saddam Hussein, this time predicting his return to power.

SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): We are confident that the occupying forces will collapse and surrender to the truth and the will of God and that of the people.

BRAHIMI: In a long and rambling audio tape released by the Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera, the speaker outline his detailed vision for Iraq when, in his words, things return to normal.

HUSSEIN (through translator): We have decided to consider all the missing property of the party and the government a gift to whomever has it. Use it as you see fit.

BRAHIMI: Among those who have heard the latest tape few doubt that it is Saddam Hussein and fewer believe he'll return to power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What are you talking about? He will never come back. He's a fugitive. He's on the run. He's finished.

BRAHIMI: Even after U.S. forces toppled Saddam Hussein's regime in April, it took weeks for most people to rest assured that after nearly 25 years Iraq's strong man had really fallen from power.

Just before the war began, Saddam Hussein reminded Iraqis of how the uprisings that followed the 1991 Gulf War had been dealt with by a brutal repression in the north and south and the killing of thousands who dared oppose his rule. Now, four months into the U.S. occupation of Iraq, the fear instilled in past years has subsided and Iraqis speak out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Ninety percent of the Iraqi people would not welcome Saddam back and should he declare jihad no one would comply.

BRAHIMI: But even as most here relegate Saddam Hussein to the past there are many who see those resisting the U.S. occupation as worthy combatants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Saddam Hussein is a criminal president and we don't want him here. We want a new government and those who launch attacks against the U.S. forces are true Fedayeen.

BRAHIMI: The slogan of many Iraqis who are disappointed and losing patience with the U.S. authorities in their country, "Neither Saddam nor the U.S."

Rym Brahimi, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE) KAGAN: All right, let's get now to the exclusive interview that you're going to see only here on CNN, the two oldest daughters of Saddam Hussein. They are now in Jordan. They are talking to CNN about the former Iraqi dictator who they say was a loving father but do they know where he is? That's a big question as a massive American manhunt for Saddam captures two more loyalists.

Let's go now to the interview with Jane Arraf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER: To (unintelligible) once again, of course not now, maybe in the far future not less than ten years for me. The answer is not related to any political situation. It's related to my feelings. I feel this way, you know, more than that.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten years because it's so painful now?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: Of course, so painful for me and for my children, so difficult to be there once again.

RANA HUSSEIN, DAUGHTER (through translator): I'm in so much pain for what's happening right now in Iraq. We hope that in the future it will get better if God is willing then to return. We will see what is going to happen. We will decide who they're going to choose first there before we go.

ARRAF: Your husbands were killed in 1996 before you went back. Did you have what you would consider normal lives?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: I beg your pardon?

ARRAF: Did you feel as if you had normal lives in Iraq before the things that happened to you after you came to Jordan in '95?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: You mean before 1995? Yes, it was a normal life. In a way it was a normal life.

ARRAF: Were you happy?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: (Unintelligible) at that time. Yes, we were happy.

RANA HUSSEIN (through translator): Of course we were with our families. We were in our country. We were with our husbands and our family was very bonded and we were all together the sisters, the brothers, our father, his relationship with my mother. We were an example family to give to people but things changed after 1995.

ARRAF: If you had a message that could get to your father what would it be?

RAGHAD HUSSEIN: I love you and I miss you as a father no more than that. RANA HUSSEIN (through translator): It's very hard for me to express by words how I feel for him and the love I have for him. Every moment I think about him and I hope that God will protect him and keep him safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARRAF: Now, that's a very different view of Saddam Hussein than we usually hear. That was Raghad, 35, Rana, 32, two apparently beloved children of Saddam Hussein who say they just miss their father, hope to see him again, and despite what the rest of the world thinks of him they say he was a loving father -- Daryn.

KAGAN: It's kind of hard to understand how these women would see Saddam Hussein as a loving father since he was responsible for the murders of their two husbands.

ARRAF: I asked them that because there is obviously that disconnect there and they said that although they had been -- the relationship had suffered after their husbands were lured back and killed essentially at their father's orders and essentially by the hands of their brothers -- I'm sorry, we've just got a wedding starting back here, Daryn -- that that had been resolved and although there have been differences they were still obviously very close to their father.

They also said that they came from the kind of family where daughters were obedient as were sons and no matter what their father had done they still saw him as doing the best for him was what they implied.

There is truly a disconnect there but one that they said didn't really make them uncomfortable that he was the kind of man, the kind of man -- the side of him that they saw was far different from what the rest of the world thought of it and they persist in believing that he was a good father and essentially a good man as well -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, we'll have to leave that part at that. What about their mother, the other wives of Saddam Hussein, and their other siblings who are still living? Where are they and do they tend to try to reconnect with them?

ARRAF: Fascinating stuff, they had what sounded like a very dramatic and painful family meeting five days before the beginning of the war and they say that's the last time they saw their other family members.

The last time they spoke with their father, the last time they saw or spoke with their mother, Sajida, with whom they're very, very close, Sajida's whereabouts are unknown. She was believed to have been sheltered by an Iraqi tribe close to the Syrian border. She is also believed to have sought refuge in a couple of countries.

Their younger sister Hala, here whereabouts also unknown but she's believed to be in Iraq. Whereabouts of her brothers, of course, completely known, they are dead although not yet buried and the two women are in mourning for them. They said they didn't believe their mother would know where Saddam Hussein was that given the kind of man he was that he wouldn't have told her and she wouldn't have known.

She was, though, known to have been in contact with the youngest son Qusay. She is believed to have sent him a message saying that he should not take his son with him. He did. That son was killed along with the two brothers and that's part of that sad saga -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A fascinating look inside this family. People are only going to see it right here on CNN. Jane, good work, thanks for bringing that interview to us, much appreciated.

We move on now with our coverage and that huge U.S. manhunt for Saddam may have tightened the noose a couple more notches today with the capture of two more Saddam loyalists.

Now, Harris Whitbeck has the latest. He's in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit -- Harris.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Daryn.

The raid that netted these two individuals occurred around four o'clock this afternoon here. U.S. Special Forces and troops from the U.S. Army's 4th Infantry Division raided a house on the outskirts of town. There they found these two people who are being described now as close associates of Saddam Hussein.

That raid was protected by attack helicopters, Apache attack helicopters, which is usually pretty standard operating procedure in this type of situation. But, anyway, the U.S. forces on the ground in Tikrit have been quite busy over the last several days.

There was some activity overnight just a few hours ago on the other side of the Tigris River, the outskirts of town, sporadic gunfire heard there and, again, the U.S. military here saying that it will continue these raids and these operations, patrols, what have you, until they find who they're looking for -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Harris, just a little bit more about this city of Tikrit. As you have said throughout the day this is the ancestral homeland of Saddam Hussein. I would imagine there are a lot more than just the two loyalists that they captured today in terms of people who are loyal to Saddam Hussein.

WHITBECK: That's correct. The area of Tikrit is his ancestral homeland. It's the land of his tribe and so there are a lot of his tribal clansmen who live here. A lot of former Ba'ath Party officials have summer residences here.

This town was very well taken care of during the Saddam Hussein years. It is comparatively wealthy and that wealth is quite notable especially when you compare this with other areas in Iraq. So, that has also contributed to a lot of loyalty around here toward Saddam Hussein.

KAGAN: Harris Whitbeck in Tikrit, Iraq, thank you for that report.

We have other news still ahead including the fight over the gay bishop and same-sex unions. We're going to hear from both sides of the debate that is threatening to split the Anglican Church in two.

Plus, she is accused of pulling a very cruel hoax pretending to be a girl who was kidnapped many years ago. Now, Donna Walker faces justice.

And, nature versus nurture, are men just destined to be promiscuous? Dr. Drew shares the buzz on the birds and the bees.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We now focus on a woman who is accused of what officials call an unbelievably cruel hoax calling the family that has been missing a daughter for about 17 years.

For the latest now on Donna Walker, who was in court today, let's check in with Jeff Flock who is in Topeka, Kansas -- Jeff.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Daryn.

This week started with such great promise, the thought that this little girl, Shannon Sherrill, six years old when she disappeared 17 years ago, may have turned up alive here in Kansas. The week ends with great disappointment with this woman Donna Walker, the woman who perpetrated the hoax, now being held on $100,000 bond.

Let's take you inside the Shawnee County, Kansas courthouse. You see behind me pictures of Donna Walker. She made her first court appearance. As we said, the judge in the case holding her on $100,000 bond on charges of identity deception and false reporting. One of those is a felony.

She is to be extradited to Indiana to face these charges but her attorney says she's going to fight it the attorney saying that it wasn't so much a matter of -- a criminal matter, more a matter of the woman being mentally ill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILLY RORK, WALKER'S ATTORNEY: I haven't been convinced a crime has occurred. I think there are some tragedies that have occurred and some very emotional circumstances have occurred but whether that's a crime that hasn't been determined yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLOCK: And so, that leaves the picture that you perhaps remember from earlier this week, that family of Shannon Sherrill at that press conference on live television with their great disappointment. It also leaves that little girl, now 23 years old if she's still alive, out there somewhere and not home with her folks.

The only positive people say, investigators say, that could come out of this is perhaps this has refocused new attention on the search for Shannon Sherrill and maybe somewhere somebody out there will find her but she's not to be found here in Topeka, Kansas where this woman remains as we said being held on bond. That's it from here, Daryn, back to you.

KAGAN: Yes, Jeff, right now just a whole lot of pain to go all the way around, Jeff Flock, in Topeka, thank you for that.

We move on now to the stage which has been set for a showdown vote that some say could split the Episcopal Church and throw the worldwide Anglican community into chaos. At issue, Gene Robinson, he's an openly gay priest who's been elected to be the next bishop of New Hampshire.

Debate over his appointment has dominated the church's triennial convention which normally approves all candidates for bishops. Today, a key committee voted in favor of Robinson. A final vote is scheduled for Monday. Some conservatives have threatened to split from the church if he is indeed approved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDY DALES, EPISCOPALIAN: The choice was of a person. It was about a ministry not an issue. We were led overwhelmingly to call Gene Robinson for his humanity not his sexuality.

MARY HAYES, EPISCOPALIAN: Bishops in particular are called to guard the faith and to proclaim the word of God and their lives are meant to demonstrate what the Scriptures say to be a wholesome example to the entire flock of Christ. The Scriptures, the word of God, which we vow to uphold are clear. Homosexual behavior is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: We're going to talk live with both sides in this controversy. We're going to do that in just a few minutes.

First, though, we want to bring this issue down to a personal level. Ella Robinson is Gene Robinson's daughter and she spoke today at the convention on behalf of her father. She's joining us live now from Minneapolis. Ella, thanks for being with us. We really appreciate it.

ELLA ROBINSON, BISHOP-ELECT'S DAUGHTER: Thank you for having me.

KAGAN: So, you went before this committee that is trying to decide the fate of your dad if indeed he should be a bishop. What did you say?

ROBINSON: I was basically there to kind of tell our family story. There have been some things in the press that have said that my father abandoned his wife and children included in that and I was there just to say how untrue that was. I'm far from abandoned, probably couldn't have gotten rid of him if I'd wanted to and so I was there just to tell about how much love and support we have from our family and always have. KAGAN: So, you wanted to set the record straight if nothing else that Gene Robinson has been a great dad and continues to be a great dad.

ROBINSON: Absolutely above and beyond.

KAGAN: But I'm sure you can appreciate as a young adult that this is about more. This isn't about being father of the year. This is a whole other issue about being a religious leader and you understand why people might have some problems with the idea of homosexuality.

ROBINSON: Absolutely, yes, and I wanted to do my part in telling people that he has been a great father and I obviously do know that it's more than that but, you know, there's a lot of the same qualities in a bishop and I wanted to give them my two cents.

KAGAN: As a daughter, is it hard to hear people say stuff about your dad?

ROBINSON: Absolutely, it's a little personal but, you know, we have respect for both sides of the issue and I really believe that we're fighting the good fight here and I believe in my father so much and that he really is following his call so we try to take it all in stride and stay positive.

KAGAN: Well, we're not the committee but if you could briefly tell us why your dad would be a good bishop for the church.

ROBINSON: Absolutely. The people of New Hampshire and the diocese there have elected him. They know and love him. He's been in the diocese for much longer than I've been even alive and, you know, he really cares for the people of the state and will be such a great leader.

He is so caring, loves working with the youth. We have our youths here from New Hampshire and most are supportive absolutely and it's just a great leader and so caring and sensitive to the people of the diocese.

KAGAN: Well, if nothing else, this was a big father/daughter moment. Your dad came out later and talked about just how proud he was of you and it's clear that it goes both ways that you're proud of your dad as well.

ROBINSON: Absolutely. I couldn't be more proud of him.

KAGAN: Ella Robinson thanks for taking time to share a little peek inside of your family. I know it's been a challenging time for the Robinson family and it's been nice to talk with you.

ROBINSON: Well, thank you.

KAGAN: Thank you so much.

Well, there you have the daughter's perspective. Clearly, there are people within the church and outside of the church that have a different perspective on whether Gene Robinson should be a bishop in the Episcopal Church. We're going to have a debate coming up. That is just ahead after the commercial break.

Also coming up for you, we have an amazing medical milestone. It is the incredible story of the world's first triple swap kidney transplants.

And later, how about incredible stories for this one, a photo cell phone that new one they take the pictures, a teenager used it to save himself from being kidnapped and helped police capture a suspect. We have his story just ahead as well after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: All right, for more on the church controversy and whether Gene Robinson should be approved as a bishop in the Episcopal Church.

I'm joined from Minneapolis now by the Reverend Ed Bacon. He is rector of All Saints Church in Pasadena, California. That is, by the way, one of the largest Episcopal churches in the country. Also joining us form Minneapolis is Diane Knippers. She is president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy.

Good afternoon to both of you. Thank you for being with us.

REV. ED BACON, ALL SAINTS CHURCH, PASADENA, CALIFORNIA: Good afternoon.

DIANE KNIPPERS, INSTITUTE ON RELIGION AND DEMOCRACY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Diane, I'm going to go ahead and start with you because there was a key move today by this executive committee that did approve Gene Robinson to be a bishop. Of course it has to go to a full vote, which will work its way through the weekend, but what do you think about today's vote?

KNIPPERS: Well, I was very disappointed on today's vote, not surprised. I think we're going to see a real cliffhanger when we get to the House of Deputies and House of Bishops.

KAGAN: Reverend, let's bring you in here. Even for those people who believe that Gene Robinson should be a bishop, is it worth, do you believe in the cause so much that it would split the church? Would it be worth splitting the church?

BACON: It would not split the church. It is a very, very important issue but it will not split the church and those who claim that it will split the church are simply trotting out a list of fears. It's not going to split the church. The church will be exultant.

KAGAN: How do you figure...

BACON: The church will grow as a result of this.

KAGAN: You see growth rather than a split then. Diane, what about you?

BACON: Oh, no doubt.

KNIPPERS: There's absolutely no question that this is going to shatter the Anglican Communion. The Episcopal Church is less than four percent of the worldwide Anglican Communion, some 70 million people.

Ours is a minority view that's being expressed and the people who are warning that this is going to be a church shattering experience aren't making threats. They're simply making warnings.

We saw a preview of this in New Westminster, a diocese in Canada that's lost now 25 percent of its people and nearly 20 percent or more of its budget. It's a devastated diocese in Canada and that's just a little picture of what we are going to see here in the United States. The arrogance of not listening to the larger church is just breathtaking in this issue. It's very distressing.

KAGAN: Well, this is definitely a difficult time where the church is taking on some very challenging issues that seem to surround the topic of homosexuality and I'd just in the minute we have left I'd like to ask each of you what you think will happen tonight when the church votes on the topic of blessing same-sex unions? Reverend, you go first please.

BACON: Well, actually the vote will not come up tonight. Tonight will be a hearing and it will be a very exciting time when people will be standing to testify about the new thing that God is doing and about this wonderful invitation that is coming to the church to express the radically inclusive love of God. It is a very exciting and enjoying time for the Episcopal Church and it will be, in time, for the Anglican communion as well.

KAGAN: Diane, how do you think it's going to play out and why do I suspect you don't see this as a very joyful time?

KNIPPERS: I think our church, which is an upper middle class elite church, is captive to the values of this nation, the very sexualized values of so much of our society and it is betraying our children, who are looking for examples, who are looking for people who can hold on to the ideal of marriage. It's a terrible betrayal of the good news that we have to offer about marriage and about human sexuality as God truly intended it.

KAGAN: Well, your church is definitely...

BACON: It's unfortunate...

KAGAN: I'm sorry, reverend, we're out of time. I'm just going to have to go ahead and thank you and say that the church is on the frontlines of a very difficult and moral issues and discussions and we respect you for being there today to help us look and to see how the church is handling it and debating it.

Thank you to both of you, Reverend Ed Bacon, and Diane Knippers. We appreciate your time.

KNIPPERS: Thanks.

KAGAN: Thank you.

Well, on the topic of same sex unions, a Canadian Roman Catholic bishop is pressuring Prime Minister Jean Chretein to oppose gay marriages in that country. Bishop Fred Henry of Calgary is quoted as saying that Chretein, who is a Catholic, is risking his eternal salvation by backing same sex marriages. This week the Vatican called on Catholic lawmakers all around the world to fight against gay unions.

Well, it is your turn to weigh in on the story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you think religious institutions should bless same sex unions?" We'll have the results later in the broadcast. You can vote at cnn.com/wolf. While you're there, why don't you take a couple of minutes and we'd like to hear from you. Sends us your comments and we might read some of them at the end of the program.

Profilers helping the Pentagon in the hunt for Saddam Hussein. We're going to take a look inside the mind of a fallen dictator.

Also, a kidnapping foiled by a cell phone. Find out how a high- tech kid caught a potential abductor in the act.

And the big buzz on the birds and the bees. There's men, women, and promiscuity. Dr. Drew joins us live.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: U.S. Central Command is adding ammunition to the massive search for Saddam Hussein. Just a short while ago, CENTCOM released a series of images on how Saddam may look now, nearly four months after being ousted from power. The images are being used by those American troops directly involved in the hunt for Saddam.

Another less publicized weapon is that of a psychological profiler. Joining us with personal expertise on that is Jerrold Post. He is a former CIA profiler and he is the author of "The Psychological Assessment of Political Leaders."

Good afternoon to you. Thanks for being with us.

JERROLD POST, FORMER CIA PROFILER: My pleasure.

KAGAN: Did you have a chance to look at those photos?

POST: Yes, I did, and what is sad irony this man who so was consumed with his own image, which was plastered all over Baghdad, now may be reduced to disguised that image. It must be a dreadful blow to his ego.

KAGAN: When you're looking at someone like Saddam Hussein, are we talking about somebody who is insane or mad? POST: We certainly are not. This is a man, however, who has been consumed by dreams of glory since his very early years, dreams he hoped to pass on to the next generation. He really saw in Qusay and Uday, as his successors, almost extending his immortality. So it really is Saddam at the end of the line literally -- the Saddam line stops here and rather than passing on to his son this powerful empire, instead it's the shattered ruins of these dreams.

KAGAN: In reading some of your thoughts before the interview, I hear you use a term called malignant narcissism, that it applies to Saddam. What do you mean by that?

POST: Well, it's sort of the very magnification of such extreme self-absorption. There's no capacity to empathize with the pain or suffering of others. Being paranoid -- not paranoid crazy, but being ready to be betrayed, ready to strike out against his enemies, no constraint of conscience and using whatever aggression is necessary to accomplish his goals without qualm of conscience. That's a very dangerous combination.

But for this kind of narcissist to be feasting on being in the very center of world acclaim, which he was -- he had achieved his goals in 1990. The whole world saw him as a liberator of Jerusalem, potentially, as the inheritor of Saladin. And here to be skulking around in cellars and disguising is -- what a shatter of his dreams.

KAGAN: Our time is short. Let's bring it to the present and talk about the idea of profiling like this could actually help in the hunt for Saddam Hussein.

POST: Well, in a technical sense, the more we are able to try to get into his mind and say, "How is he standing up to this stress? What will he do? How can we -- what can we read into these messages he keeps coming across with? -- the better able -- we are to zero in. I see him trying to call upon an increasingly diminishing band of supporters. And this is kind of bomb to a shattered self.

KAGAN: And the hunt goes on. Jerrold Post, thanks for insight and into a profile -- a psychological profile of Saddam Hussein. I appreciate that and your thoughts.

In other inter -- thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.

Other international news now. Foreign ministers from West African nations are in Monrovia. They are trying to persuade Liberian President Charles Taylor to step down when peacekeepers arrive and that could happen as soon as Monday. But Taylor isn't even in the capital where the conditions are going downhill.

Our Jeff Koinange is in Monrovia and he has an update.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What was supposed to be a two- hour meeting with embattled President Charles Taylor has turned into an overnight stay. West African foreign ministers were in the capital of Monrovia Friday but they did not get to see the president because he was out of town. According to his spokesman he had gone to the second port city of Buchanan, where fresh fighting has broken out.

In the meantime, the city of Monrovia came under further attack on this 12th day of straight fighting. About nine people were killed and a mortar shell and fell into a crowded neighborhood. All this while the same West African foreign minister say they will stay as long as they have to in order for them to deliver the message, the message being that peacekeepers will be on the ground as early as Monday, and that three days after they're on the ground, embattled President Charles Taylor is to step down and leave the country.

In the meantime, tens of thousands of Liberians continue to flee the capital, fleeing the mortar shells and the RPG rocket-propelled grenades that are reigning down on civilian neighborhoods. People are hoping that the peacekeepers will be here sooner rather than later to save them from all of this misery.

Jeff Koinage, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: We have some amazing medical news just ahead. An operation for the record books, really. A simultaneous kidney transplant. It involves six donors and recipients. Coming up, how a triple swap kidney transplant was made possible.

Also, sexual desire and DNA, a new sex report surveys thousands of men and women. Sex advise expert Dr. Drew talks about the controversial findings.

And how a teenage boy helped capture a suspected kidnapper using a cell phone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A 15-year-old boy in New Jersey turned the tables on a would be kidnapper this week. When he tried to pick him up he used his cell phone's camera to take pictures of both the man and the license tag on the car. Incredible heroism on the part of this young man. Maria Hinojosa has the details from New York. Maria, one word, wow!

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No kidding, Daryn. This is how a story about how a 15-year-old took that technology that trips some of us up, like me, for example, and used it to his best advantage. How? By thinking quickly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: You've seen the ads for the funky cell phones that take pictures.

KATHLEEN DUNLEAVY, SPRINT: People really want to share the moment so they want to share pictures of their family, their friends, travel, pets those kinds of things are very... HINOJOSA: Pets?

DUNLEAVY: Pets, yes.

HINOJOSA: Lots of pets.

DUNLEAVY: Yes, lots of pets.

HINOJOSA: It's primarily a fun kind of gadget costing between 100 to $300.

DUNLEAVY: We made this technology to be very simple to use so that all people have to do is point, click, and send it immediately to any e-mail address.

HINOJOSA: And there it is. Within seconds, photos of the moment right on your e-mail. For only $15 an month more for your cell phone service.

Those cell phone cameras might be fun but on Tuesday night, that cute little gadget may have helped prevent a crime taking place right on this street corner. That night a 15-year-old boy was approached, police say, by a 59-year-old man in a white car. The man allegedly began soliciting the boy sexually, but the boy with the cell phone camera realized it might protect him.

CAPT. ROBERT ROWAN, CLIFTON POLICE: He took a photograph of the suspect while he was in the car, trying to convince him to get into the car. And so he actually took a picture of a crime in progress. And he also took a picture of the car, including the plate number.

HINOJOSA: The license plate number led police to this social club where William McDonald, the suspect, worked.

Are you thinking that there are going to be a lot of parents who are going to say, want you to get a cell phone and I'm getting you one with a camera?

ROWAN: I think that it mark's the beginning of a new era where people can use this type of technology, not only juveniles but adults as well, to protect themselves in certain situations.

HINOJOSA: Situations where people who aren't daunted by new technology are able to think quickly, even when they don't have their owner's manual at hand approximately.

William McDonald was charged with criminal restraint, attempting to lure a juvenile into a vehicle and simple assault. Police say he hasn't entered a plea but they could not say whether he has a lawyer to represent him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, McDonald is being held on $25,000 bail. But, Daryn, one more interesting fact, although this is one of the first times a cell phone camera may have been used to prevent a major crime, cell phones have been used for safety a lot. A cell phone industry group says that in 2001, almost 156,000 calls were made to 911 daily -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Ah, but the phone can't do it by itself. It takes a quick-thinking young man like the one in this case. So good for him. Maria, thank you for that.

Another incredible story to share with you this afternoon, and that is doctors at Johns Hopkins say they believe this is a first. Three patients needing kidney transplants came in with their own potential donors. None of those were a match, but each of the donors did match with the other patients. So doctors did a triple swap. The entire group met up today. Andy Barth with our affiliate WMAR was there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERMAINE ALLUM, RECEIVED NEW KIDNEY: Now that I have a new kidney, my life can start again. We can get married. I can have children. I can move on with my life.

ANDY BARTH, WMAR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To receive a life- saving kidney, you need a donor and compatible match. Here's how three lives were saved. Granted, this is a little complicated but it's worth it, so work with me.

These three people all needed kidneys. These three people were willing to donate theirs. It was supposed to go one to one two to two and three to three. But those pairings weren't compatible so the donations went one to two, two to three and three to one. But those numbers were real people. Paul wanted to donate to his fiancee, Germaine. Connie wanted to donate to her sister,Stacey, and so on. When the matches wouldn't work, Hopkins found new matches.

DR. ROBERT MONTGOMERY, JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL: Essentially what we did was swapped kidneys between these three donors and these three recipients. So everyone would receive a blood type compatible organ that was not likely to be rejected.

BARTH: But this had never been done before.

MONTGOMERY: I think we were all truly amazed that this all worked out. It was a eureka type of moment when they solved this puzzle.

BARTH: It was also a life-changing moment.

CONNIE DICK, DONATED KIDNEY: By me giving my kidney to somebody five other people medicine and that's always going to be special to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because of them, my friend, Jeremy, has a great kidney from Paul.

DICK: I think it's great. It's a new life for me.

BARTH: It took six teams of 12 surgeons and 12 nurses in six operating rooms to pull this off.

MONTGOMERY: The logistics of having the recipient ready at the time that the donor kidney was ready to come out, you can imagine were pretty staggering.

BARTH: But it happened without a hitch. Over 11 hours and strangers became almost family.

DICK: I looked into Tracy's eyes and just felt a bond that I never really thought about.

BARTH: Jeremy got Paul's kidney, a perfect match. Tracy got Julia's.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without them, I wouldn't be here right now.

MONTGOMERY: Like kidney matchmakers, they were looking for just such a miracle.

BARTH: It took faith and trust, skill and luck, timing and a lot of work, for it all to come together.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know how to put it into words, but it's really, really nice.

BARTH: This is Andy Barth, reporting for CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: You want to be sure and join Wolf on Monday. He'll be back here and have a chance to talk with the lead surgeon, Dr. Robert Montgomery.

Still ahead, we're talking sex. There's a new report out there that ignites a firestorm of controversy over what is normal for men and women. Coming up, the fierce debate over the role that DNA plays in sex, lust, and fidelity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Well, is it your hardware or your software? That's the question at the center of the latest debate on human sexuality. Are men simply wired genetically to want more sex partners and does that mean that a man's promiscuous behavior is somehow normal?

Well, there's a new study out. It analyzed 16,000 men and women worldwide. And frankly, it says yes.

That brings us to Dr. Drew Pinsky, the co-host of "Loveline," who is going to help us figure out what this all means.

Dr. Drew, good to have you with us.

DR. DREW PINKSY, "LOVELINE": Thanks, Daryn. Appreciate it. That's a great way to ask the question. Is it hardware or is it software? Is it nature or is it nurture? KAGAN: What do you think?

PINSKY: Well, anyone that works in this field, I think would have at least this to say in agreement. That is, it is both. And there is a large component that is biological, is genetic and we're getting more and more information about this everyday.

The fact is men and women differ by an entire chromosome. Should we be surprised, then, that there's difference in their biological endowments? We differ from chimpanzees by about 300 base pair. Far, far less -- maybe important base pairs, admittedly -- but far less genetic material differentiate from a chimpanzee than the genders from one another.

KAGAN: Well, the basic question here is, they're asking these men and women all around 2 world, and what's interesting is we're talking to different cultures, different countries. How many sex partners would you want over a month? And basically men were saying they wanted more than women.

PINKSY: That's right, that they have an urge, they have a desire, they have a drive for more diversity. This is something that's been observed throughout human history. It's not new information. It's just something that's been done in a very careful and scientific way in this study. And most people feel that this study is rather conclusive, that it's just saying, Look, we're not saying it's good or bad, it just is.

In fact, the reality is, most biological anthropologist would say that women have contained men's behavior over the years.

KAGAN: Well good for us, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That's absolutely right, and we shouldn't be saying that this is somehow a good thing or that society -- that we should be using this as an excuse of damaging or unhealthy behaviors. But it's a natural biological urge that needs to be contained. And we need to raise our children accordingly and plan for this.

KAGAN: So, I mean, to be kind of crass, you're saying, you know, men are pigs but they can't help themselves? Or where are we going with this?

PINSKY: Let me be very clear. Men are pigs and they can help themselves.

KAGAN: OK.

PINSKY: That's the point. And when women have helped us throughout the centuries.

And there's just differences. There are difference and it's genetic and it's biological and why should we pretend that these exist -- these don't exist? Why not acknowledge what they are, measure them, identify them and then plan for them? And sort of shape people's behaviors accordingly to do things that are, in fact, more healthy and not allow young people to use these biological realities as an excuse for behaviors that may or may not be healthy.

KAGAN: So be realistic. But also, in terms of become realistic with studies like this, you have to think of how they are. If someone asks somebody, asks a woman, you know, how much sex do you want? How many sexual partners do you want? Do you think , no matter what culture you're talking about, that they might, men and women might craft their answers differently given by what they are expected to say?

PINSKY: Right. That is the argument against these sorts of studies and that's why they went to many different cultures, because different cultures have different attitude about these things. And yet throughout all the cultures, these things exists.

When it comes to men, you can't get them to not say these things. And no matter how hard you try, it's very hard to shape these drives. You know, we've known forever what testosterone does to the human being. That's not a surprise. That's not new information. It has a genetic basis to it. If we take someone and change their gender and start giving them testosterone when they're a female, it changers their sexual desire, it changes their drive, it changes their needs for diversity. We know this.

KAGAN: Dr. Drew, with that I'm going to have to jump in and say thank you for helping us understand men just a little bit better. It was worth coming to work today.

PINSKY: I hope so.

KAGAN: Appreciate it. Dr. Drew Pinksy, talking about the sex today. Appreciate that.

Well, our hot "Web Question of the Day" is this: "Do you think religious institutions should bless same-sex unions?" Vote now at cnn.com/wolf. The results for you when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Just enough time to see how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day": "Do you think that religious institutions should bless same-sex unions?" Overwhelmingly, 76 percent of you said no, 24 percent of you said yes.

That's going to do it for us. I am Daryn Kagan. I've been filling in all this week for Wolf Blitzer.

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Audiotape; Controversy Over Gay Bishop>