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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Authorities Wait to Take Jackson Into Custody; British Critics Go on Offensive; Limbaugh Responds to Money Laundering Allegations

Aired November 19, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, will he show up? Santa Barbara authorities are waiting to take Michael Jackson into custody. His lawyers have just responded to the criminal accusations. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(voice-over): Trouble in Neverland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Should he contact authorities immediately? What's your message to him?

TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Get over here and get checked in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A superstar ordered to surrender. Pageantry and protests -- President Bush defends the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Liberation is still a moral goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: British critics go on the offensive.

Breaking the news, how Scott Peterson told his mistress about his missing wife.

And Rush Limbaugh responds to reports of a money laundering probe.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, November 19, 2003.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Michael Jackson's attorneys only within the past few moments have put out a statement on the case.

CNN's David Mattingly is outside Jackson's Neverland ranch with this important part of a developing story -- David, tell us what the attorneys for Michael Jackson are saying.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Santa Barbara County an all Michael Jackson watch tonight because of the statement that was just released by a Michael Jackson spokesman. We have it in its entirety now and we can share it with you.

It reads, "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in any way. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom."

It goes on critical of local authorities here. It says, "Naturally the implications are distressing to everyone who hears them, which is precisely the point. We are disturbed by the levity of the environment surrounding the announcement of these very serious charges."

It goes on to say, "When the evidence is presented and the allegations proven to be malicious and wholly unfounded, Michael will be able to put this nighttime behind him."

And something that has everyone buzzing at this hour, the final statement that arrangements have been made for his return and that he will immediately confront and prove the charges against him unfounded, a very strong statement of innocence from the Michael Jackson camp in the face of some very serious charges -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, do the authorities know for sure where Michael Jackson is right now?

MATTINGLY: If they do, they are not saying. They say they have been in contact with his legal team and have -- and are confident that he will turn himself in. It's been reported that he's been in Las Vegas, where he's been working on a video in support of his new CD, his Greatest Hits CD that hit the stands. But other than that, the authorities aren't shedding too much on what sort of contact they have had with Michael Jackson so far.

BLITZER: David Mattingly covering this story.

We'll be checking back with you, David.

Thanks very much.

A decade after first being accused, Michael Jackson is now facing child molestation charges. A warrant is out for his arrest and authorities say this time their case is solid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: The operation was concluded at around 11:00 p.m. last night. The service of the warrants was part of an ongoing investigation alleging criminal misconduct on the part of Michael Jackson. The basis for this investigation regarding Mr. Jackson involves allegations of child molestation, 288a of the California Penal Code. Additionally, an arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation. The bail amount on the warrant has been set at $3 million. At this point in time, Mr. Jackson has been given an opportunity to surrender himself to the custody of the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department within a specified period of time.

We are currently working with Mr. Jackson's legal representation on this matter. Mr. Jackson has also been directed to surrender his passport when he's taken into custody.

SNEDDON: I heard a lot of people saying it was deja vu, I heard a lot of people saying it was another rip-off by some family to get money.

I want to make several things clear about why this is different from the last investigation.

Number one, it is different because the law in California has changed and it was changed specifically because of the 1993-94 Michael Jackson investigation. The law in California at that time provided that a child victim could not be forced to testify in a child molest proceedings without their permission and consent and cooperation.

As a result of the Michael Jackson case, the legislature changed that law and that is no longer the law in California.

QUESTION: What's your message to him?

SNEDDON: Get over here and get checked in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Harvey Levin is the executive producer of "Celebrity Justice." He's also been talking to his own sources on this story. In addition, he is an attorney himself.

He's joining us now on the phone.

Harvey, thank you very much for joining us.

HARVEY LEVIN, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": My pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: What do you know right now about Michael Jackson, the negotiations to try to bring him in?

LEVIN: Well, we called the Las Vegas police this morning. I actually spoke with one of the officers there, because there were reports that the Vegas police might be arresting him. I was told very clearly by them that the Las Vegas Police Department called the sheriff of Santa Barbara, not vice versa, and said, look, we know he's here, do you want us to help? And the sheriff said no, back off, don't do anything, we have it under control, we're negotiating already with his lawyers.

So it sounds like they were going for a voluntary surrender and at least as of this morning, there was going to be no action taken in Las Vegas.

BLITZER: We have heard, Harvey, here at CNN, that Mark Geragos, the well known criminal defense attorney in California who represents Scott Peterson has now become a legal consultant to Michael Jackson.

What do you know about this legal team that Michael Jackson is putting together?

LEVIN: Well, I mean what's so interesting, you know, if this is true about Mark Geragos, what's so interesting is I know the way he does business. And he does business clearly and loudly. And, you know, this is going to be a real slug fest. If you notice the D.A. of Santa Barbara County, it almost felt personal in that, you know, with him going before the cameras, you know, actually, you know, kind of chiding Michael Jackson about his music even.

Mark Geragos will absolutely stand up to that and, you know, if this is the case, it's going to be a slug fest inside and outside of court, Wolf.

They're working...

BLITZER: The district attorney and the sheriff in Santa Barbara made the allegations. They didn't provide any evidence to back it up. We have no idea how strong their evidence is.

Have you heard anything about that?

LEVIN: I have and this is, I think, rather stunning. Here's what "Celebrity Justice" is going to be reporting today. We have learned that this 12-year-old boy is alleging that Michael Jackson plied him with wine before having his way with him. This was disclosed, we're told, to both a therapist and authorities. I'm not stating that it's fact. I'm merely saying what the boy is saying. And that's rather stunning and certainly a lot different from what we had been hearing with respect to the investigation 10 years ago with another child.

BLITZER: I just want to clarify, that's what Harvey is hearing. We at CNN have not been able to report that, to confirm that. The allegations are out there, obviously, as all of us know.

How much of a surprise has this been to the legal and celebrity community out in California?

LEVIN: Well, Michael Jackson, you know, it's not like this is coming out of the blue, Wolf. I mean Michael Jackson was the target of two criminal investigations in two different counties in '93. So, you know, we've run this course before and the only reason the case didn't go further than it did, we're told, is because of the civil settlement where the boy walked away.

So, you know, even after that case kind of went away, Michael Jackson's own conduct, you know, has raised eyebrows for years now. So, you know, there are plenty of cases that seem to be like a thunderbolt. This is not one of them. BLITZER: Harvey, the whole notion, at least some of Michael Jackson's supporters suggesting that he has a lot of money, putting up the $3 million in bail won't obviously be a problem for him. But because he has so much money and because he supposedly made this million dollar settlement 10 years ago with another young boy and his family who were making allegations along these lines, that there may be an opportunity now for someone else to try to make money out of Michael Jackson, and specifically the accusers.

How solid, basically, is this accusation based on what you have heard?

LEVIN: Well, you know, Wolf, I don't feel comfortable to really answer that question because I have not, you know, tested this kid independently, nor have we seen how this kid stands up, you know, on some kind of cross-examination, if it comes to that.

I simply know that there are allegations. I know that they were taken seriously. Obviously, the D.A. and the sheriff felt it was strong enough to go to a judge and convince him to get a warrant, which means that the judge felt there was something there.

But whether Michael Jackson is convicted of this really remains to be seen. And, again, remember, in California, as in every state, to get convicted, you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a very high standard.

BLITZER: When I was listening to the sheriff and the D.A., one thing really stood out in my mind, Harvey. I'm anxious to get your assessment of this. They said they were ready to go ahead and issue the search warrant weeks ago, but there were other issues going on in Santa Barbara and they didn't have the manpower necessarily to do it.

If Michael Jackson were doing these kinds of things, child molestation, there are other children around, you would think they would want to get him off the streets as quickly as possible and not let him be exposed to other young children, if these allegations are as serious as they were. They say they were ready to work weeks ago, but they couldn't because they had other issues in Santa Barbara.

LEVIN: You know, that's an interesting point, but you've got to put it in a bigger context. And that is for 10 years now there have been allegations like this. So, you know, I don't want to say this in a callous way, but it's almost as if to say these allegations have been swirling for 10 years, so what's another, you know, few weeks? And that is a callous way, and I don't mean it the way it sounds, but literally they have been dealing with this for years and years and years.

This D.A. felt that he had something 10 years ago and was thwarted. So, you know, if he wanted to get his ducks in a row and make sure -- because, remember, once you arrest somebody, there are certain rights that attach in terms of charging that person and they wanted to make sure that they had it down. I mean, you know, Michael Jackson, the last time, Wolf, had hired Johnnie Cochran. And Johnnie Cochran is a formidable lawyer, to say the least, and will look for to poke holes in anything. And I'm sure they knew that they were going to have to deal with somebody who was, you know, of similar stature when they actually went in and raided the place.

So I think they wanted to make sure that they had all their ducks in a row.

BLITZER: Harvey Levin of "Celebrity Justice," thanks very much for joining us.

LEVIN: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Let's turn to another high profile celebrity in the news. He's back from rehab and back on the air, but Rush Limbaugh is also back in the spotlight, denying new allegations.

Let's go live to CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

She's covering the story for us in New York -- Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Rush Limbaugh back on the air and back on the defensive, this time denying media reports that he's being investigated for possible money laundering. Limbaugh recently got out of drug rehab after publicly admitting he was addicted to painkillers. Police are now investigating claims by Limbaugh's former housekeeper that she illegally sold Limbaugh thousands of prescription painkillers.

He's denied doing anything illegal, but if those claims turn out to be true, then it may be possible that Limbaugh violated Florida money laundering laws. That's what the radio chat host was denying today. Limbaugh telling his listeners his bank told him to take out money under $10,000 to avoid having to report it to the government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The government in New York State was investigating U.S. Trust because the bank had apparently told many other of their clients that their cash withdrawals should be in amounts of less than $10,000. I was one of the last people they talked to and they met, I guess, a couple people after me. And I'm not really sure. But shortly after I met with them, U.S. Trust admitted to this and paid a $10 million fine and that's it. I don't know how many other customers they had advised to do this, but there were enough that they incurred a $10 million fine, agreed to it and that's what was going on here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, U.S. Trust, Limbaugh's bank, admitted no wrongdoing when they paid that fine. But Limbaugh says a bank representative came to his New York office about four times, each time bringing him more than $9,000. The bank, U.S. Trust, tells CNN it never talks about its clients. A spokeswoman declined to discuss bank services like Limbaugh's alleged personal cash deliveries.

Money laundering experts, however, are skeptical about Limbaugh's explanation. One former prosecutor saying money transactions designed to stay under banking radars are clear violations. Limbaugh told his audience he took out about $300,000.

Now, while he is under investigation, he has not been charged with any crimes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Good point to remember.

Deborah Feyerick, thanks very much for that report.

Serious allegations and an arrest warrant issued against the pop star Michael Jackson, coverage of our top story will continue.

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: And freedom and security still need defenders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Tough talk by President Bush today in Britain. And the protesters making their feelings known, as well. We're live from London.

Tackling al Qaeda, Saudi forces show off their counter-terrorism skills. We'll have a rare inside look.

On the record, recorded phone conversations between Scott Peterson and Amber Frey. We have the transcripts. Find out what they reveal.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Bush right now in Britain defending the war in Iraq. He's getting a royal welcome from the royals, but a ruder reception on the streets, at least tomorrow. That's expected.

Let's go live to London.

Our senior White House correspondent John King standing by -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a great amount of ceremony today here as Mr. Bush officially opened his state visit here in London. But as you noted, a fair amount of controversy, as well.

As we speak tonight, the president the guest of honor at an official state banquet at Buckingham Palace, a short time ago exchanging toasts with Queen Elizabeth. Both the president and the queen saluting the special relationship, the historic bond between Great Britain and the United States.

In a major speech earlier today, the president took head on his critics here in Great Britain and across Europe, Mr. Bush saying that his critics are wrong when they say that he ignores institutions like the United Nations. But Mr. Bush also said there is a time when diplomacy must come to an end. The president saying the war in Iraq one of those rare cases when the use of force is necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The people have given us the duty to defend them. And that duty sometimes requires the violent restraint of violent men. In some cases, the measured use of force is all that protects us from a chaotic world ruled by force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Modest protests on the street here in London today. As many as 100,000 expected to join the main protest march tomorrow, as Mr. Bush meets with his key ally, Prime Minister Tony Blair. An enormous amount, extraordinary, unprecedented security for this trip. For the most part, officials say it has gone well.

But there has been, Wolf, one high profile breach played up today on the front page of the "Daily Mirror." One of its reporters able to get a job as a palace aid. His references never checked. The reporter says in the newspaper here he could have been in a position to harm the president or, as he says, poison the queen.

The White House says it has full confidence in British security and it views this as a gaffe that can be corrected. A major investigation now under way -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And a major embarrassment, as well, obviously, for all concerned.

John King, thanks very much.

We'll be checking back with you tomorrow.

Taking note of the protests surrounding his visit, President Bush tried to disarm his critics with a reference to the recent 44 day starvation stunt of the magician, David Blaine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: It was pointed out to me that the last noted American to visit London stayed in a glass box dangling over the Thames. A few might have been happy to provide similar arrangements for me. I thank Her Majesty, the queen, for interceding. We're honored to be staying at her house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president of the United States showing off some of his humor in London.

Multiple counts and years of potential jail time, more information coming out as the police lay out new details about the arrest warrant for Michael Jackson. Our live coverage of this story will continue.

Chemical plants, terrorism and your safety, should industry be forced to use safer chemicals?

Tense rescue, residents evacuated, schools closed as the flood waters rise again in West Virginia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This week we've been looking at the nation's chemical plants, the temptation they may pose for terrorists and the efforts to make them more secure. Items we use every day are made from dangerous substances processed in those plants.

Could industry use safer chemicals? Should the government force manufacturers to?

CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest plants use toxic chemicals by the ton. A terrorist attack on one of these could be devastating, says security consultant Sal Depasquale.

SAL DEPASQUALE, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Remember, we're talking about materials that have the potential for killing tens and hundreds of thousands of people. It's serious stuff.

MESERVE: So change the materials, some say. Use fewer toxic chemicals or substitute safer ones. The concept is called inherently safer technology and 40 year industry veteran James Bryant believes it's a matter of national security.

JAMES BRYANT, FORMER CHLORINE PLANT OWNER: That should be a law right in there because there are a lot of industries out there, some of these the big companies, who are not changing to altering the technology. The technology has been and is available and in the long- term would be more economical.

SEN. JAMES INHOFE, (R), OKLAHOMA: There's some fundamental disagreements...

MESERVE: But Senator James Inhofe, for one, says it has nothing to do with security.

(on camera): If it's not a security issue, what kind of issue is it?

INHOFE: Oh, I don't know. It's an issue of over regulation, I suppose you'd say. We have a lot of that around here.

MESERVE: So what you're suggesting is the legislation passed now should not include inherently safer technologies?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. MESERVE (voice-over): Privately people on Capitol Hill say the chemical industry does not want government micro managing its business. Publicly, the industry says it's good business to practice inherently safe technology.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our industry is very focused on ensuring that we have a safe industry, whether it's our products, our processes, the way we distribute our products. I mean it's something we do every day.

MESERVE: The Department of Homeland Security assesses the vulnerability of chemical plants, but seems reluctant to take on the role of mandating changes in the chemicals they use.

BOB LISCOUSKI, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I think encouraging is one thing, but having the active role and having to take or take an active role in that, I think, is something we'd stay away from. We do not want to become a regulatory agency.

MESERVE: How hard would it be to replace a dangerous chemical like chlorine? Chlorine isn't used just in water and sewer treatments, it's in plastics and pharmaceuticals. In fact, the Chlorine Institute says 45 percent of everything manufactured in the U.S. has some kind of chlorine component.

JOHN BRESLAND, U.S. CHEMICAL SAFETY BOARD: You can't go around and make everything that you would like to use in this complex world from water or from sugar. You do have to use toxic chemicals, hazardous chemicals at some point.

MESERVE: John Bresland worked in the chemical industry for more than 30 years and now investigates accidents for the U.S. Chemical Safety Board.

BRESLAND: It's not that easy to change over from a toxic chemical to a less toxic chemical, especially in a process that's already up and operating.

MESERVE: But James Bryant says it can be done with enough investment and commitment. He spearheaded General Electric's successful effort to remove toxic PCBs from electrical equipment and says he knows why the industry doesn't want to be forced into inherently safer technologies.

BRYANT: They want to keep doing things the same old way.

MESERVE (on camera): Why?

BRYANT: In some cases, it's cheaper. In some cases, they're just resisting change because it requires new equipment, a different method of operation and different technology.

MESERVE (on camera): The disagreement over inherently safer technologies is ideological as well as technical. Some say it's an environmental issue masquerading as a security concern. Others say it's a security issue being stymied by an anti-regulatory philosophy. Beyond the debate are some serious issues for American consumers. Are they or we willing to pay higher prices for the greater security that costly new technologies could provide? And will it take another 9/11 type event to accelerate discussion on the matter?

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jeanne Meserve doing some excellent reporting for us on this important series.

Thanks to Jeanne and her team very much.

A bill mandating basic security standards for chemical plants, by the way, has made it out of committee in the U.S. Senate, but faces strong opposition on the Senate floor. Even if it passes in the Senate, it faces an uphill battle in the House of Representatives. One version of the bill does contain some provisions to ask manufacturers to consider safer alternatives to the many dangerous materials handled every day.

Get over here and get checked in, that's the message from authorities in California to Michael Jackson. And now, the pop star's spokesman announcing the hiring of a famous defense attorney.

More live coverage of this developing story.

That's coming up.

Will the Saudis do it, though, when it really counts?

And a foreign site on foreign soil, an American Navy warship visiting Vietnam.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now on our top story. Pop star Michael Jackson facing multiple charges of child molestation in California. Santa Barbara County officials made the announcement at a news conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Michael Jackson may not be a fugitive, but he could be facing serious trouble.

SHERIFF JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has issued on multiple counts of child molestation.

BLITZER: The Santa Barbara County district attorney says charges will be filed against the pop star in a very short period of time. And Jackson has been, "given an opportunity to surrender himself to authorities." Bail on the warrant is $3 million. TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Get over here and get checked in.

BLITZER: D.A. Tom Sneddon says the child who was allegedly molested by Jackson is willing to testify against him. Jackson could face up to eight years in prison on each count if he's convicted.

The singer's Neverland Ranch was searched yesterday as part of the investigation, and two other warrants were served elsewhere in southern California. At the time, Jackson was in Las Vegas shooting a music video. Yesterday, a spokesman issued this statement referring to some attorneys and others who speak about Jackson to the media: "These characters always seem to surface with a dreadful allegation just another project, an album, a video is being released."

SNEDDON: Like the sheriff and I are really into that kind of music. But the fact -- and all my kids are grown now pretty much. But the fact of the matter is, what you need to know is, that in actuality, we had no knowledge of that prior to the time that we determined the date of the execution of this. And, in fact, we are going to execute these warrants several weeks ago but had to put it off because of all of the visitors we had come up here, the 50,000 people that came in for Halloween.

BLITZER: Nearly 10 years ago, Jackson settled a lawsuit filed on behalf of the then 13-year-old boy who had accused Jackson of molesting him at the Neverland Ranch. No criminal charges were ever filed in that case. But as allegations and strange public displays have added up over the years, observers say, at the very least, Jackson has mismanaged his image badly.

J. RANDY TARABORRELLI, JACKSON BIOGRAPHER: He's absolutely guilty of creating an appearance of impropriety over the years where children are concerned. And my personal feeling is that after the allegations of 10 years ago were settled, it probably would have been best for him to never have anything further to do with children, other than his own, because all it has done for him is create huge trouble in his life.

BLITZER: Someone else in legal trouble now has to share his lawyer with Michael Jackson. CNN has learned Jackson has hired Mark Geragos, who represents Scott Peterson in his murder trial.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And this from Michael Jackson's representatives, a statement released only a short time ago. "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in any way. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom. Naturally, the implications are distressing to everyone who hears them, which is precisely the point."

Let's get some expert and legal analysis on this case. For that, we're joined from San Francisco by John Burris. He's a criminal defense attorney, a former federal prosecutor. John, thanks very much for joining us. What's the natural state now, as far as Michael Jackson's own kids, assuming the government, the prosecutors go forward with these charges?

JOHN BURRIS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think his own kids are going to be fine, basically, assuming he makes bail. If he makes bail, then he has a right to go back to his house and live his life with his children, unless some allegations come forward to suggest in any way that he has abused his children. So far, we have no evidence of that.

The mere fact that he's been accuse in a case involving kids not his own does not necessarily presume that he's not a good father and that he has caused sexual harm to his own children. So his kids are going to be fine. I don't think it has any impact without more evidence.

BLITZER: Were you surprised that the prosecutor, the D.A., and the sheriff both said they were going to do this a few weeks ago but they had a lot of Halloween pranksters coming in to Santa Barbara, so they had to delay it. The point is, if this was such a serious allegation, why wouldn't they want to get him off the street immediately?

BURRIS: Well, I'm not surprised not only about that, but also about the conduct that they had just in terms of the press conference itself. I thought there was a cavalier nature about that. It certainly undermined the significance and the seriousness of it.

It was almost one-up-man-ship, we finally got him kind of approach, and everyone was pretty happy about it. But notwithstanding that, I mean, Michael Jackson is not going to be in custody. So whether it was done six weeks ago or not, it really has no impact on how serious the charges are, because in large measure, he's going to make bail.

He would have made bail six weeks ago. And he makes bail now. So the seriousness of the charge really doesn't go to the fact that they could have done it a while ago. I think more importantly for them is whether or not other charges were surfacing. I think they probably using that time to see if they can find out any additional evidence.

The search warrant itself will be important to see what evidence really was found that either corroborates or not. This is going to be a case that's going to be one on one. Michael Jackson, it's no secret that children, young boys, sleep with him. In and of itself, that's not proof; everyone knows what takes place.

The question really is, what kind of corroborating evidence is there going to be. Is there just going to be evidence of this child's statement about something that happened on a particular night? If that's all it is, then I think it's going to be a challenging case for the prosecution.

BLITZER: Obviously, he's going to make the $3 million bail. That's not a problem for Michael Jackson. But in the process, before he gets to give the bail, is it likely he'll spend a night or two in jail?

BURRIS: No, not likely. I mean, I've had these cases before with high celebrity people. You basically make an arrangement for a self-surrender. You go over, you post the bail, you have to be booked. And so booking may require that you get fingerprinted and photographed.

That can take place. You can be in and out of there in a couple hours, unless it's a relatively small county. So I don't anticipate him ever spending a night in jail.

The bond arrangement should be made now so by the time he goes and surrenders, the bail has been posted. And just the matter of him being booked, he will be cited, a court date he has to appear. So he would not and should not spend any time in custody during this process.

BLITZER: If he is convicted, though, according to California Penal Code 288-a, he could get three, six or eight years for each one of those charges if convicted. That's a big "if" right now.

John Burris, thanks so much for joining us. We'll continue this.

BURRIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: It has an elite force and a powerful pocketbook. Now a look at one Middle Easter's nation's efforts to oust al Qaeda.

And what did Scott Peterson say to Amber Frey about the disappearance of his wife?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Nightfall in Iraq has brought another wave of strikes against suspected guerrilla targets. That's according to the United States military. This follows last night's intensive aerial pounding in Baghdad and other areas of central Iraq. Targets included abandoned buildings and warehouses allegedly used as bomb factories and launching points for attacks on coalition forces.

Saudi authorities have allowed a rare look at their security forces as they undergo anti-terror training. It is part of a broader effort to show that Saudi Arabia is determined to crush the al Qaeda threat. Let's go inside the kingdom right now, as CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson reports from Riyadh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With high-speed car chases, smoke bombs, and assault weapons blazing, Saudi special forces put on a show of how they train to catch terrorists. Members of the thousand-plus elite anti-terrorist force out to impress journalists with swift, well executed drills. These commanders would reveal few details of successes or failures, but said they prepare their troops for all eventualities.

BRIG. GEN. NAWAF AL SHWEYEB, SAUDI SPECIAL FORCES: There's some countries, they train our people how face this chemical (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ROBERTSON: Training has been paying off, though, according to Saudi analysts, leaving only junior members of terror cells at large to carry out operations.

NAWAF OBAID, SAUDI SECURITY ANALYST: Now, what we see is the remnants of them. You know, untrained, not necessarily linked to Afghanistan. Very young kids, average age between 16 to 19 maximum.

ROBERTSON: Also on display at the special forces center, costly high-tech counter terrorism equipment, accounting for part, according to sources close to the government, of Saudi Arabia's $4 to $6 billion security budget, the biggest in the region.

(on camera): However effective these short-term counter- terrorism measures, the Saudi government says it is also trying to tackle the long-term issue of support for the radical groups. So far, changing schoolbooks deemed intolerant, removing clerics considered too radical, and locking up some religious leaders, until they recant previous calls for violence.

(voice-over): The state-run broadcaster's regular religious show also denounced the bombings, explaining killing has no place in Islam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The cleric's role is to pass on the message to Muslims that Islam is a religion of tolerance, not a religion of killing and not a religion of terrorism.

ROBERTSON: But it is Saudi Arabia's particularly conservative interpretation of Islam, not the religion itself, that others say has allowed intolerance to grow and radical groups to flourish. Journalist Raid Qusti is particularly outspoken.

RAID QUSTI, "ARAB NEWS": Religious police can yell at me in a mall anywhere here if I were to sit with my cousin and his wife. That sort of intolerance, that sort of strict version of Islam is still part of the culture here.

ROBERTSON: For most, however, the subject of religious reform is super sensitive. At this government organized forum, which itself would have been unheard of a few years ago, intellectuals discuss changes cautiously. None criticize Islam in the carefully coded conversations, but when pushed about who has most to lose from the reforms...

ABDULLAH ALOTABI, KING SAUD UNIVERSITY: Most important of these segments are maybe the religious movement, to be more frank. Other than this, I can't think of any.

ROBERTSON: In London, Saudi dissident Saad Al Faghi who avoids condemning or condoning the bombings, argues religious teachings have nothing to do with the attacks. SAAD AL FAGHI, SAUDI DISSIDENT: The problem is very simple. And the regime does not want to admit it is the oppression and absolute dictatorship and severe corruption which is producing this sort of circumstance.

ROBERTSON: Around these debating tables in Riyadh, however, hope is that the ruling royal family will listen to the calls for more change. Al Faghi doubts it.

AL FAGHI: I can argue against anybody who is claiming there is debate. I challenge the regime to allow even the smallest margin of freedom of expression and freedom of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) which allows the criticism of the regime itself.

ROBERTSON: Outspoken journalist Qusti believes the royal family does get the message but has a tough balancing act.

QUSTI: Change has to come from top because you have tribes here, you have very strict culture. Like I said, there is extremism. There's conservatism. So unless it comes from the top, it won't come at all.

ROBERTSON: So deeply and often invisibly is religion interwoven with tradition here. Few are predicting an easy ride ahead. If change does come, life here for the next generation could be different. Holding on through the bumps to come, though, a challenge in itself.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Phone calls with the mistress. What did Scott Peterson tell Amber Frey about his wife's disappearance? We have the compelling transcript of one of their conversations.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was gripping testimony on the last day of Scott Peterson's preliminary hearing. A detective quoted from transcripts of phone calls between Peterson and his former mistress, Amber Frey, that were recorded by Modesto Police. Among them, a call on January 6 in which Peterson told Frey for the first time that he was married and his wife was the then missing Laci Peterson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Early in the call, Peterson tells Frey, "I have not been traveling during the last couple of weeks. I have lied to you. The girl I'm married to, her name is Laci. She disappeared just before Christmas."

"For the past two weeks, I've been in Modesto with her family and mine, searching for her. She just disappeared and no one knows. And I can't tell you more because I need you to be protected from the media."

Peterson tells her, "You deserve so much better. There's no question you deserve so much better."

She tells him, "Yes, and I deserve to understand an explanation of why you told me you lost your wife and this was the first holiday you'd spend without her. That was December 9. You told me this. And how, all of a sudden, you're wife's missing? Are you kidding me?"

Later, she presses him, "OK. So again, you never answer my question. Why did you tell me it would be the first holidays without her?"

He responds, "I can't. Sweetie, I can't explain anymore now."

Frey is incredulous. "You told me you lost your wife," she says. "You sat there in front of me and cried and broke down. I sat there and held your hand, Scott, and comforted you. And you were lying to me."

He says, "Yeah." Later he says, "I never cheated on you." She chuckles. "I never did," he reiterates.

She says, "You're married. How do you figure you never cheated on me? Explain that one to me."

"I want to explain, Amber," he says. "And you want to? Doesn't that mean you're going to, right," she asks. He insists, "I will. No, no, I will."

"When," she demands. He replies, "I hope to hell that you will listen to me and that I can. I want to explain it to you so badly but I can't now. And I can never ask you to trust me or even to listen to me again."

She replies, "There's no way I possibly can." Later, he asks pointblank, "Sweetie, do you think I had something to do with her disappearance? Amber, do you believe that?"

She responds, "Well, let's see, how can I believe that? How can I believe that?"

He says, "I am not evil like that."

"I would hope not" is her reply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Peterson has been ordered to stand trial for the deaths of his wife and unborn child. He's scheduled to be arraigned December 3.

Pro basketball has its LeBron James. Now here comes a teenage sensation to set the soccer world on fire. We'll tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Now to our picture of the day. What would you do if your 14-year-old son was sought out by sports teams around the world and offered bundles of cash if he would just sign to play for them? In the case of soccer phenomenon Freddy Adu, he decided to stay close to home.

The naturalized U.S. citizen will play for Major League Soccer's D.C. United team. His family lives in Potomac, Maryland. Adu has signed a six-year contract with the league.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Critics Go on Offensive; Limbaugh Responds to Money Laundering Allegations>


Aired November 19, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, will he show up? Santa Barbara authorities are waiting to take Michael Jackson into custody. His lawyers have just responded to the criminal accusations. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(voice-over): Trouble in Neverland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Should he contact authorities immediately? What's your message to him?

TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Get over here and get checked in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: A superstar ordered to surrender. Pageantry and protests -- President Bush defends the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Liberation is still a moral goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: British critics go on the offensive.

Breaking the news, how Scott Peterson told his mistress about his missing wife.

And Rush Limbaugh responds to reports of a money laundering probe.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, November 19, 2003.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Michael Jackson's attorneys only within the past few moments have put out a statement on the case.

CNN's David Mattingly is outside Jackson's Neverland ranch with this important part of a developing story -- David, tell us what the attorneys for Michael Jackson are saying.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Santa Barbara County an all Michael Jackson watch tonight because of the statement that was just released by a Michael Jackson spokesman. We have it in its entirety now and we can share it with you.

It reads, "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in any way. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom."

It goes on critical of local authorities here. It says, "Naturally the implications are distressing to everyone who hears them, which is precisely the point. We are disturbed by the levity of the environment surrounding the announcement of these very serious charges."

It goes on to say, "When the evidence is presented and the allegations proven to be malicious and wholly unfounded, Michael will be able to put this nighttime behind him."

And something that has everyone buzzing at this hour, the final statement that arrangements have been made for his return and that he will immediately confront and prove the charges against him unfounded, a very strong statement of innocence from the Michael Jackson camp in the face of some very serious charges -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, do the authorities know for sure where Michael Jackson is right now?

MATTINGLY: If they do, they are not saying. They say they have been in contact with his legal team and have -- and are confident that he will turn himself in. It's been reported that he's been in Las Vegas, where he's been working on a video in support of his new CD, his Greatest Hits CD that hit the stands. But other than that, the authorities aren't shedding too much on what sort of contact they have had with Michael Jackson so far.

BLITZER: David Mattingly covering this story.

We'll be checking back with you, David.

Thanks very much.

A decade after first being accused, Michael Jackson is now facing child molestation charges. A warrant is out for his arrest and authorities say this time their case is solid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: The operation was concluded at around 11:00 p.m. last night. The service of the warrants was part of an ongoing investigation alleging criminal misconduct on the part of Michael Jackson. The basis for this investigation regarding Mr. Jackson involves allegations of child molestation, 288a of the California Penal Code. Additionally, an arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation. The bail amount on the warrant has been set at $3 million. At this point in time, Mr. Jackson has been given an opportunity to surrender himself to the custody of the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department within a specified period of time.

We are currently working with Mr. Jackson's legal representation on this matter. Mr. Jackson has also been directed to surrender his passport when he's taken into custody.

SNEDDON: I heard a lot of people saying it was deja vu, I heard a lot of people saying it was another rip-off by some family to get money.

I want to make several things clear about why this is different from the last investigation.

Number one, it is different because the law in California has changed and it was changed specifically because of the 1993-94 Michael Jackson investigation. The law in California at that time provided that a child victim could not be forced to testify in a child molest proceedings without their permission and consent and cooperation.

As a result of the Michael Jackson case, the legislature changed that law and that is no longer the law in California.

QUESTION: What's your message to him?

SNEDDON: Get over here and get checked in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Harvey Levin is the executive producer of "Celebrity Justice." He's also been talking to his own sources on this story. In addition, he is an attorney himself.

He's joining us now on the phone.

Harvey, thank you very much for joining us.

HARVEY LEVIN, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": My pleasure, Wolf.

BLITZER: What do you know right now about Michael Jackson, the negotiations to try to bring him in?

LEVIN: Well, we called the Las Vegas police this morning. I actually spoke with one of the officers there, because there were reports that the Vegas police might be arresting him. I was told very clearly by them that the Las Vegas Police Department called the sheriff of Santa Barbara, not vice versa, and said, look, we know he's here, do you want us to help? And the sheriff said no, back off, don't do anything, we have it under control, we're negotiating already with his lawyers.

So it sounds like they were going for a voluntary surrender and at least as of this morning, there was going to be no action taken in Las Vegas.

BLITZER: We have heard, Harvey, here at CNN, that Mark Geragos, the well known criminal defense attorney in California who represents Scott Peterson has now become a legal consultant to Michael Jackson.

What do you know about this legal team that Michael Jackson is putting together?

LEVIN: Well, I mean what's so interesting, you know, if this is true about Mark Geragos, what's so interesting is I know the way he does business. And he does business clearly and loudly. And, you know, this is going to be a real slug fest. If you notice the D.A. of Santa Barbara County, it almost felt personal in that, you know, with him going before the cameras, you know, actually, you know, kind of chiding Michael Jackson about his music even.

Mark Geragos will absolutely stand up to that and, you know, if this is the case, it's going to be a slug fest inside and outside of court, Wolf.

They're working...

BLITZER: The district attorney and the sheriff in Santa Barbara made the allegations. They didn't provide any evidence to back it up. We have no idea how strong their evidence is.

Have you heard anything about that?

LEVIN: I have and this is, I think, rather stunning. Here's what "Celebrity Justice" is going to be reporting today. We have learned that this 12-year-old boy is alleging that Michael Jackson plied him with wine before having his way with him. This was disclosed, we're told, to both a therapist and authorities. I'm not stating that it's fact. I'm merely saying what the boy is saying. And that's rather stunning and certainly a lot different from what we had been hearing with respect to the investigation 10 years ago with another child.

BLITZER: I just want to clarify, that's what Harvey is hearing. We at CNN have not been able to report that, to confirm that. The allegations are out there, obviously, as all of us know.

How much of a surprise has this been to the legal and celebrity community out in California?

LEVIN: Well, Michael Jackson, you know, it's not like this is coming out of the blue, Wolf. I mean Michael Jackson was the target of two criminal investigations in two different counties in '93. So, you know, we've run this course before and the only reason the case didn't go further than it did, we're told, is because of the civil settlement where the boy walked away.

So, you know, even after that case kind of went away, Michael Jackson's own conduct, you know, has raised eyebrows for years now. So, you know, there are plenty of cases that seem to be like a thunderbolt. This is not one of them. BLITZER: Harvey, the whole notion, at least some of Michael Jackson's supporters suggesting that he has a lot of money, putting up the $3 million in bail won't obviously be a problem for him. But because he has so much money and because he supposedly made this million dollar settlement 10 years ago with another young boy and his family who were making allegations along these lines, that there may be an opportunity now for someone else to try to make money out of Michael Jackson, and specifically the accusers.

How solid, basically, is this accusation based on what you have heard?

LEVIN: Well, you know, Wolf, I don't feel comfortable to really answer that question because I have not, you know, tested this kid independently, nor have we seen how this kid stands up, you know, on some kind of cross-examination, if it comes to that.

I simply know that there are allegations. I know that they were taken seriously. Obviously, the D.A. and the sheriff felt it was strong enough to go to a judge and convince him to get a warrant, which means that the judge felt there was something there.

But whether Michael Jackson is convicted of this really remains to be seen. And, again, remember, in California, as in every state, to get convicted, you need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a very high standard.

BLITZER: When I was listening to the sheriff and the D.A., one thing really stood out in my mind, Harvey. I'm anxious to get your assessment of this. They said they were ready to go ahead and issue the search warrant weeks ago, but there were other issues going on in Santa Barbara and they didn't have the manpower necessarily to do it.

If Michael Jackson were doing these kinds of things, child molestation, there are other children around, you would think they would want to get him off the streets as quickly as possible and not let him be exposed to other young children, if these allegations are as serious as they were. They say they were ready to work weeks ago, but they couldn't because they had other issues in Santa Barbara.

LEVIN: You know, that's an interesting point, but you've got to put it in a bigger context. And that is for 10 years now there have been allegations like this. So, you know, I don't want to say this in a callous way, but it's almost as if to say these allegations have been swirling for 10 years, so what's another, you know, few weeks? And that is a callous way, and I don't mean it the way it sounds, but literally they have been dealing with this for years and years and years.

This D.A. felt that he had something 10 years ago and was thwarted. So, you know, if he wanted to get his ducks in a row and make sure -- because, remember, once you arrest somebody, there are certain rights that attach in terms of charging that person and they wanted to make sure that they had it down. I mean, you know, Michael Jackson, the last time, Wolf, had hired Johnnie Cochran. And Johnnie Cochran is a formidable lawyer, to say the least, and will look for to poke holes in anything. And I'm sure they knew that they were going to have to deal with somebody who was, you know, of similar stature when they actually went in and raided the place.

So I think they wanted to make sure that they had all their ducks in a row.

BLITZER: Harvey Levin of "Celebrity Justice," thanks very much for joining us.

LEVIN: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Let's turn to another high profile celebrity in the news. He's back from rehab and back on the air, but Rush Limbaugh is also back in the spotlight, denying new allegations.

Let's go live to CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

She's covering the story for us in New York -- Deborah.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Rush Limbaugh back on the air and back on the defensive, this time denying media reports that he's being investigated for possible money laundering. Limbaugh recently got out of drug rehab after publicly admitting he was addicted to painkillers. Police are now investigating claims by Limbaugh's former housekeeper that she illegally sold Limbaugh thousands of prescription painkillers.

He's denied doing anything illegal, but if those claims turn out to be true, then it may be possible that Limbaugh violated Florida money laundering laws. That's what the radio chat host was denying today. Limbaugh telling his listeners his bank told him to take out money under $10,000 to avoid having to report it to the government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: The government in New York State was investigating U.S. Trust because the bank had apparently told many other of their clients that their cash withdrawals should be in amounts of less than $10,000. I was one of the last people they talked to and they met, I guess, a couple people after me. And I'm not really sure. But shortly after I met with them, U.S. Trust admitted to this and paid a $10 million fine and that's it. I don't know how many other customers they had advised to do this, but there were enough that they incurred a $10 million fine, agreed to it and that's what was going on here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now, U.S. Trust, Limbaugh's bank, admitted no wrongdoing when they paid that fine. But Limbaugh says a bank representative came to his New York office about four times, each time bringing him more than $9,000. The bank, U.S. Trust, tells CNN it never talks about its clients. A spokeswoman declined to discuss bank services like Limbaugh's alleged personal cash deliveries.

Money laundering experts, however, are skeptical about Limbaugh's explanation. One former prosecutor saying money transactions designed to stay under banking radars are clear violations. Limbaugh told his audience he took out about $300,000.

Now, while he is under investigation, he has not been charged with any crimes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Good point to remember.

Deborah Feyerick, thanks very much for that report.

Serious allegations and an arrest warrant issued against the pop star Michael Jackson, coverage of our top story will continue.

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: And freedom and security still need defenders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Tough talk by President Bush today in Britain. And the protesters making their feelings known, as well. We're live from London.

Tackling al Qaeda, Saudi forces show off their counter-terrorism skills. We'll have a rare inside look.

On the record, recorded phone conversations between Scott Peterson and Amber Frey. We have the transcripts. Find out what they reveal.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Bush right now in Britain defending the war in Iraq. He's getting a royal welcome from the royals, but a ruder reception on the streets, at least tomorrow. That's expected.

Let's go live to London.

Our senior White House correspondent John King standing by -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a great amount of ceremony today here as Mr. Bush officially opened his state visit here in London. But as you noted, a fair amount of controversy, as well.

As we speak tonight, the president the guest of honor at an official state banquet at Buckingham Palace, a short time ago exchanging toasts with Queen Elizabeth. Both the president and the queen saluting the special relationship, the historic bond between Great Britain and the United States.

In a major speech earlier today, the president took head on his critics here in Great Britain and across Europe, Mr. Bush saying that his critics are wrong when they say that he ignores institutions like the United Nations. But Mr. Bush also said there is a time when diplomacy must come to an end. The president saying the war in Iraq one of those rare cases when the use of force is necessary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The people have given us the duty to defend them. And that duty sometimes requires the violent restraint of violent men. In some cases, the measured use of force is all that protects us from a chaotic world ruled by force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Modest protests on the street here in London today. As many as 100,000 expected to join the main protest march tomorrow, as Mr. Bush meets with his key ally, Prime Minister Tony Blair. An enormous amount, extraordinary, unprecedented security for this trip. For the most part, officials say it has gone well.

But there has been, Wolf, one high profile breach played up today on the front page of the "Daily Mirror." One of its reporters able to get a job as a palace aid. His references never checked. The reporter says in the newspaper here he could have been in a position to harm the president or, as he says, poison the queen.

The White House says it has full confidence in British security and it views this as a gaffe that can be corrected. A major investigation now under way -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And a major embarrassment, as well, obviously, for all concerned.

John King, thanks very much.

We'll be checking back with you tomorrow.

Taking note of the protests surrounding his visit, President Bush tried to disarm his critics with a reference to the recent 44 day starvation stunt of the magician, David Blaine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: It was pointed out to me that the last noted American to visit London stayed in a glass box dangling over the Thames. A few might have been happy to provide similar arrangements for me. I thank Her Majesty, the queen, for interceding. We're honored to be staying at her house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president of the United States showing off some of his humor in London.

Multiple counts and years of potential jail time, more information coming out as the police lay out new details about the arrest warrant for Michael Jackson. Our live coverage of this story will continue.

Chemical plants, terrorism and your safety, should industry be forced to use safer chemicals?

Tense rescue, residents evacuated, schools closed as the flood waters rise again in West Virginia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This week we've been looking at the nation's chemical plants, the temptation they may pose for terrorists and the efforts to make them more secure. Items we use every day are made from dangerous substances processed in those plants.

Could industry use safer chemicals? Should the government force manufacturers to?

CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The biggest plants use toxic chemicals by the ton. A terrorist attack on one of these could be devastating, says security consultant Sal Depasquale.

SAL DEPASQUALE, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Remember, we're talking about materials that have the potential for killing tens and hundreds of thousands of people. It's serious stuff.

MESERVE: So change the materials, some say. Use fewer toxic chemicals or substitute safer ones. The concept is called inherently safer technology and 40 year industry veteran James Bryant believes it's a matter of national security.

JAMES BRYANT, FORMER CHLORINE PLANT OWNER: That should be a law right in there because there are a lot of industries out there, some of these the big companies, who are not changing to altering the technology. The technology has been and is available and in the long- term would be more economical.

SEN. JAMES INHOFE, (R), OKLAHOMA: There's some fundamental disagreements...

MESERVE: But Senator James Inhofe, for one, says it has nothing to do with security.

(on camera): If it's not a security issue, what kind of issue is it?

INHOFE: Oh, I don't know. It's an issue of over regulation, I suppose you'd say. We have a lot of that around here.

MESERVE: So what you're suggesting is the legislation passed now should not include inherently safer technologies?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right. MESERVE (voice-over): Privately people on Capitol Hill say the chemical industry does not want government micro managing its business. Publicly, the industry says it's good business to practice inherently safe technology.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our industry is very focused on ensuring that we have a safe industry, whether it's our products, our processes, the way we distribute our products. I mean it's something we do every day.

MESERVE: The Department of Homeland Security assesses the vulnerability of chemical plants, but seems reluctant to take on the role of mandating changes in the chemicals they use.

BOB LISCOUSKI, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I think encouraging is one thing, but having the active role and having to take or take an active role in that, I think, is something we'd stay away from. We do not want to become a regulatory agency.

MESERVE: How hard would it be to replace a dangerous chemical like chlorine? Chlorine isn't used just in water and sewer treatments, it's in plastics and pharmaceuticals. In fact, the Chlorine Institute says 45 percent of everything manufactured in the U.S. has some kind of chlorine component.

JOHN BRESLAND, U.S. CHEMICAL SAFETY BOARD: You can't go around and make everything that you would like to use in this complex world from water or from sugar. You do have to use toxic chemicals, hazardous chemicals at some point.

MESERVE: John Bresland worked in the chemical industry for more than 30 years and now investigates accidents for the U.S. Chemical Safety Board.

BRESLAND: It's not that easy to change over from a toxic chemical to a less toxic chemical, especially in a process that's already up and operating.

MESERVE: But James Bryant says it can be done with enough investment and commitment. He spearheaded General Electric's successful effort to remove toxic PCBs from electrical equipment and says he knows why the industry doesn't want to be forced into inherently safer technologies.

BRYANT: They want to keep doing things the same old way.

MESERVE (on camera): Why?

BRYANT: In some cases, it's cheaper. In some cases, they're just resisting change because it requires new equipment, a different method of operation and different technology.

MESERVE (on camera): The disagreement over inherently safer technologies is ideological as well as technical. Some say it's an environmental issue masquerading as a security concern. Others say it's a security issue being stymied by an anti-regulatory philosophy. Beyond the debate are some serious issues for American consumers. Are they or we willing to pay higher prices for the greater security that costly new technologies could provide? And will it take another 9/11 type event to accelerate discussion on the matter?

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jeanne Meserve doing some excellent reporting for us on this important series.

Thanks to Jeanne and her team very much.

A bill mandating basic security standards for chemical plants, by the way, has made it out of committee in the U.S. Senate, but faces strong opposition on the Senate floor. Even if it passes in the Senate, it faces an uphill battle in the House of Representatives. One version of the bill does contain some provisions to ask manufacturers to consider safer alternatives to the many dangerous materials handled every day.

Get over here and get checked in, that's the message from authorities in California to Michael Jackson. And now, the pop star's spokesman announcing the hiring of a famous defense attorney.

More live coverage of this developing story.

That's coming up.

Will the Saudis do it, though, when it really counts?

And a foreign site on foreign soil, an American Navy warship visiting Vietnam.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: More now on our top story. Pop star Michael Jackson facing multiple charges of child molestation in California. Santa Barbara County officials made the announcement at a news conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Michael Jackson may not be a fugitive, but he could be facing serious trouble.

SHERIFF JIM ANDERSON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has issued on multiple counts of child molestation.

BLITZER: The Santa Barbara County district attorney says charges will be filed against the pop star in a very short period of time. And Jackson has been, "given an opportunity to surrender himself to authorities." Bail on the warrant is $3 million. TOM SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Get over here and get checked in.

BLITZER: D.A. Tom Sneddon says the child who was allegedly molested by Jackson is willing to testify against him. Jackson could face up to eight years in prison on each count if he's convicted.

The singer's Neverland Ranch was searched yesterday as part of the investigation, and two other warrants were served elsewhere in southern California. At the time, Jackson was in Las Vegas shooting a music video. Yesterday, a spokesman issued this statement referring to some attorneys and others who speak about Jackson to the media: "These characters always seem to surface with a dreadful allegation just another project, an album, a video is being released."

SNEDDON: Like the sheriff and I are really into that kind of music. But the fact -- and all my kids are grown now pretty much. But the fact of the matter is, what you need to know is, that in actuality, we had no knowledge of that prior to the time that we determined the date of the execution of this. And, in fact, we are going to execute these warrants several weeks ago but had to put it off because of all of the visitors we had come up here, the 50,000 people that came in for Halloween.

BLITZER: Nearly 10 years ago, Jackson settled a lawsuit filed on behalf of the then 13-year-old boy who had accused Jackson of molesting him at the Neverland Ranch. No criminal charges were ever filed in that case. But as allegations and strange public displays have added up over the years, observers say, at the very least, Jackson has mismanaged his image badly.

J. RANDY TARABORRELLI, JACKSON BIOGRAPHER: He's absolutely guilty of creating an appearance of impropriety over the years where children are concerned. And my personal feeling is that after the allegations of 10 years ago were settled, it probably would have been best for him to never have anything further to do with children, other than his own, because all it has done for him is create huge trouble in his life.

BLITZER: Someone else in legal trouble now has to share his lawyer with Michael Jackson. CNN has learned Jackson has hired Mark Geragos, who represents Scott Peterson in his murder trial.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And this from Michael Jackson's representatives, a statement released only a short time ago. "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in any way. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom. Naturally, the implications are distressing to everyone who hears them, which is precisely the point."

Let's get some expert and legal analysis on this case. For that, we're joined from San Francisco by John Burris. He's a criminal defense attorney, a former federal prosecutor. John, thanks very much for joining us. What's the natural state now, as far as Michael Jackson's own kids, assuming the government, the prosecutors go forward with these charges?

JOHN BURRIS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think his own kids are going to be fine, basically, assuming he makes bail. If he makes bail, then he has a right to go back to his house and live his life with his children, unless some allegations come forward to suggest in any way that he has abused his children. So far, we have no evidence of that.

The mere fact that he's been accuse in a case involving kids not his own does not necessarily presume that he's not a good father and that he has caused sexual harm to his own children. So his kids are going to be fine. I don't think it has any impact without more evidence.

BLITZER: Were you surprised that the prosecutor, the D.A., and the sheriff both said they were going to do this a few weeks ago but they had a lot of Halloween pranksters coming in to Santa Barbara, so they had to delay it. The point is, if this was such a serious allegation, why wouldn't they want to get him off the street immediately?

BURRIS: Well, I'm not surprised not only about that, but also about the conduct that they had just in terms of the press conference itself. I thought there was a cavalier nature about that. It certainly undermined the significance and the seriousness of it.

It was almost one-up-man-ship, we finally got him kind of approach, and everyone was pretty happy about it. But notwithstanding that, I mean, Michael Jackson is not going to be in custody. So whether it was done six weeks ago or not, it really has no impact on how serious the charges are, because in large measure, he's going to make bail.

He would have made bail six weeks ago. And he makes bail now. So the seriousness of the charge really doesn't go to the fact that they could have done it a while ago. I think more importantly for them is whether or not other charges were surfacing. I think they probably using that time to see if they can find out any additional evidence.

The search warrant itself will be important to see what evidence really was found that either corroborates or not. This is going to be a case that's going to be one on one. Michael Jackson, it's no secret that children, young boys, sleep with him. In and of itself, that's not proof; everyone knows what takes place.

The question really is, what kind of corroborating evidence is there going to be. Is there just going to be evidence of this child's statement about something that happened on a particular night? If that's all it is, then I think it's going to be a challenging case for the prosecution.

BLITZER: Obviously, he's going to make the $3 million bail. That's not a problem for Michael Jackson. But in the process, before he gets to give the bail, is it likely he'll spend a night or two in jail?

BURRIS: No, not likely. I mean, I've had these cases before with high celebrity people. You basically make an arrangement for a self-surrender. You go over, you post the bail, you have to be booked. And so booking may require that you get fingerprinted and photographed.

That can take place. You can be in and out of there in a couple hours, unless it's a relatively small county. So I don't anticipate him ever spending a night in jail.

The bond arrangement should be made now so by the time he goes and surrenders, the bail has been posted. And just the matter of him being booked, he will be cited, a court date he has to appear. So he would not and should not spend any time in custody during this process.

BLITZER: If he is convicted, though, according to California Penal Code 288-a, he could get three, six or eight years for each one of those charges if convicted. That's a big "if" right now.

John Burris, thanks so much for joining us. We'll continue this.

BURRIS: Thank you.

BLITZER: It has an elite force and a powerful pocketbook. Now a look at one Middle Easter's nation's efforts to oust al Qaeda.

And what did Scott Peterson say to Amber Frey about the disappearance of his wife?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Nightfall in Iraq has brought another wave of strikes against suspected guerrilla targets. That's according to the United States military. This follows last night's intensive aerial pounding in Baghdad and other areas of central Iraq. Targets included abandoned buildings and warehouses allegedly used as bomb factories and launching points for attacks on coalition forces.

Saudi authorities have allowed a rare look at their security forces as they undergo anti-terror training. It is part of a broader effort to show that Saudi Arabia is determined to crush the al Qaeda threat. Let's go inside the kingdom right now, as CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson reports from Riyadh.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With high-speed car chases, smoke bombs, and assault weapons blazing, Saudi special forces put on a show of how they train to catch terrorists. Members of the thousand-plus elite anti-terrorist force out to impress journalists with swift, well executed drills. These commanders would reveal few details of successes or failures, but said they prepare their troops for all eventualities.

BRIG. GEN. NAWAF AL SHWEYEB, SAUDI SPECIAL FORCES: There's some countries, they train our people how face this chemical (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ROBERTSON: Training has been paying off, though, according to Saudi analysts, leaving only junior members of terror cells at large to carry out operations.

NAWAF OBAID, SAUDI SECURITY ANALYST: Now, what we see is the remnants of them. You know, untrained, not necessarily linked to Afghanistan. Very young kids, average age between 16 to 19 maximum.

ROBERTSON: Also on display at the special forces center, costly high-tech counter terrorism equipment, accounting for part, according to sources close to the government, of Saudi Arabia's $4 to $6 billion security budget, the biggest in the region.

(on camera): However effective these short-term counter- terrorism measures, the Saudi government says it is also trying to tackle the long-term issue of support for the radical groups. So far, changing schoolbooks deemed intolerant, removing clerics considered too radical, and locking up some religious leaders, until they recant previous calls for violence.

(voice-over): The state-run broadcaster's regular religious show also denounced the bombings, explaining killing has no place in Islam.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The cleric's role is to pass on the message to Muslims that Islam is a religion of tolerance, not a religion of killing and not a religion of terrorism.

ROBERTSON: But it is Saudi Arabia's particularly conservative interpretation of Islam, not the religion itself, that others say has allowed intolerance to grow and radical groups to flourish. Journalist Raid Qusti is particularly outspoken.

RAID QUSTI, "ARAB NEWS": Religious police can yell at me in a mall anywhere here if I were to sit with my cousin and his wife. That sort of intolerance, that sort of strict version of Islam is still part of the culture here.

ROBERTSON: For most, however, the subject of religious reform is super sensitive. At this government organized forum, which itself would have been unheard of a few years ago, intellectuals discuss changes cautiously. None criticize Islam in the carefully coded conversations, but when pushed about who has most to lose from the reforms...

ABDULLAH ALOTABI, KING SAUD UNIVERSITY: Most important of these segments are maybe the religious movement, to be more frank. Other than this, I can't think of any.

ROBERTSON: In London, Saudi dissident Saad Al Faghi who avoids condemning or condoning the bombings, argues religious teachings have nothing to do with the attacks. SAAD AL FAGHI, SAUDI DISSIDENT: The problem is very simple. And the regime does not want to admit it is the oppression and absolute dictatorship and severe corruption which is producing this sort of circumstance.

ROBERTSON: Around these debating tables in Riyadh, however, hope is that the ruling royal family will listen to the calls for more change. Al Faghi doubts it.

AL FAGHI: I can argue against anybody who is claiming there is debate. I challenge the regime to allow even the smallest margin of freedom of expression and freedom of (UNINTELLIGIBLE) which allows the criticism of the regime itself.

ROBERTSON: Outspoken journalist Qusti believes the royal family does get the message but has a tough balancing act.

QUSTI: Change has to come from top because you have tribes here, you have very strict culture. Like I said, there is extremism. There's conservatism. So unless it comes from the top, it won't come at all.

ROBERTSON: So deeply and often invisibly is religion interwoven with tradition here. Few are predicting an easy ride ahead. If change does come, life here for the next generation could be different. Holding on through the bumps to come, though, a challenge in itself.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Phone calls with the mistress. What did Scott Peterson tell Amber Frey about his wife's disappearance? We have the compelling transcript of one of their conversations.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There was gripping testimony on the last day of Scott Peterson's preliminary hearing. A detective quoted from transcripts of phone calls between Peterson and his former mistress, Amber Frey, that were recorded by Modesto Police. Among them, a call on January 6 in which Peterson told Frey for the first time that he was married and his wife was the then missing Laci Peterson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Early in the call, Peterson tells Frey, "I have not been traveling during the last couple of weeks. I have lied to you. The girl I'm married to, her name is Laci. She disappeared just before Christmas."

"For the past two weeks, I've been in Modesto with her family and mine, searching for her. She just disappeared and no one knows. And I can't tell you more because I need you to be protected from the media."

Peterson tells her, "You deserve so much better. There's no question you deserve so much better."

She tells him, "Yes, and I deserve to understand an explanation of why you told me you lost your wife and this was the first holiday you'd spend without her. That was December 9. You told me this. And how, all of a sudden, you're wife's missing? Are you kidding me?"

Later, she presses him, "OK. So again, you never answer my question. Why did you tell me it would be the first holidays without her?"

He responds, "I can't. Sweetie, I can't explain anymore now."

Frey is incredulous. "You told me you lost your wife," she says. "You sat there in front of me and cried and broke down. I sat there and held your hand, Scott, and comforted you. And you were lying to me."

He says, "Yeah." Later he says, "I never cheated on you." She chuckles. "I never did," he reiterates.

She says, "You're married. How do you figure you never cheated on me? Explain that one to me."

"I want to explain, Amber," he says. "And you want to? Doesn't that mean you're going to, right," she asks. He insists, "I will. No, no, I will."

"When," she demands. He replies, "I hope to hell that you will listen to me and that I can. I want to explain it to you so badly but I can't now. And I can never ask you to trust me or even to listen to me again."

She replies, "There's no way I possibly can." Later, he asks pointblank, "Sweetie, do you think I had something to do with her disappearance? Amber, do you believe that?"

She responds, "Well, let's see, how can I believe that? How can I believe that?"

He says, "I am not evil like that."

"I would hope not" is her reply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Peterson has been ordered to stand trial for the deaths of his wife and unborn child. He's scheduled to be arraigned December 3.

Pro basketball has its LeBron James. Now here comes a teenage sensation to set the soccer world on fire. We'll tell you about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Now to our picture of the day. What would you do if your 14-year-old son was sought out by sports teams around the world and offered bundles of cash if he would just sign to play for them? In the case of soccer phenomenon Freddy Adu, he decided to stay close to home.

The naturalized U.S. citizen will play for Major League Soccer's D.C. United team. His family lives in Potomac, Maryland. Adu has signed a six-year contract with the league.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





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