Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

President Bush Suggest Saddam Should Recieve Ultimate Fate; Demostrations Turn Violen in Support of Saddam in Iraq

Aired December 16, 2003 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now. Diehards taking to the streets across Iraq. Demonstrations turn violent in support of Saddam Hussein.
And new details just coming in. President Bush goes further than he ever has before on Saddam Hussein's fate.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): Bonanza in a briefcase. Saddam's secret papers. Stare down with Saddam. You'll hear about a dramatic face- to-face meeting with the ex-dictator. And Saddam in the crosshairs. Taking the wraps off an assassination plot, a plot that went very wrong.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, December 16, 2003.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It's been a day of fast-moving, dramatic developments in Iraq.

Raids, riots and deadly shootouts. As U.S. intelligence puts the squeeze on Saddam Hussein, his loyalists are striking back. And we now know who will be putting the questions directly to Saddam Hussein.

We'll go live to our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's in Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit.

Bill Hemmer, joining us tonight from Baghdad. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon. And our national security correspondent, David Ensor, here in Washington. All that coming up.

First, though, this late-developing story. After the capture of Saddam Hussein, President Bush vowed the ex-dictator would be put on trial, although he said it was up to the Iraqis to decide Saddam Hussein's ultimate fate.

Now the president is saying how he really feels. In an interview with Diane Sawyer for ABC News "Primetime," the president says, and I'm quoting now, "Let's just see what penalty he gets, but I think he ought to receive the ultimate penalty for what he has done to his people."

The president added, still quoting, "He is a torturer, a murderer, and they had rape rooms, and this is a disgusting tyrant who deserves justice, the ultimate justice. But that will be decided not by the president of the United States but by the citizens of Iraq in one form or another."

Later this hour, I'll go one-on-one with a top White House official, the communications director at the White House, Dan Bartlett. He'll join me live.

But now to Iraq. CNN's Nic Robertson is still in Tikrit. He's got details of what the United States is calling another successful raid, nabbing dozens of men suspected of attacks on U.S. forces. Among them, one that officials are calling a high-value target.

Nic is joining us now live -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this raid took place about 25 miles south of Tikrit in the town of Samaria, a town that has given coalition forces a lot of troubles, a lot of improvised explosive devices placed around that town, targeting the U.S. troops.

The raid started at 4:30 in the morning. They went to the house where the high-value target lived. They found him in his house. He is described as a Fedayeen financier, a possible cell leader of anti- coalition elements.

In that house along with the high-value target were 73 other men, all young men, all of military age, we're told. There were no women, there were no children in this house, according to coalition officials. Along with the high-value target and 73 men were amounts of explosives, 135 pounds of gunpowder, detonation cords, explosive caps, artillery rounds, mortar shells -- all the equipment, including car batteries -- all the equipment, we are told, to make these improvised explosive devices.

The significance, coalition forces say, is that they believe they may have caught the whole or a part of an anti-coalition cell in the town of Samaria. And just today, in Tikrit, one of those improvised explosive devices went off, injuring three U.S. soldiers, two of them seriously, although their condition is now stable -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson with the latest from Tikrit. Thanks, Nic, very much.

Despite that success and the weekend capture of Saddam Hussein, there's been no letup in the violence plaguing the country and U.S. forces.

CNN's Bill Hemmer is monitoring all these developments. He's now in Baghdad, joining us live with the latest -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, two straight days of violent protests. We have seen them on Monday, then again today. Let's start in Ramadi, 60 miles west of Baghdad, the capital city, protests there described as significant earlier today, hundreds turning out in the streets. Forces came under fire near the government center. We're told two Iraqis are dead as a result. One American soldier is wounded, also reported in nearby Falluja as well.

In Mosul, north of the Baghdad capital, Wolf, more protests, more violence, more casualties there. One policeman is dead, another wounded. Soldiers apparently firing warning shots in the air. Those shots coming down and killing the policeman and wounding yet another.

In Baji, which is also north of Baghdad, protesters out I force yet again today, some carrying pictures of Saddam Hussein. U.S. troops later called in using water cannons to help disperse the crowds there, many of them chanting, quote, "With our soul, with our blood, we serve you, Saddam."

So, again, Wolf, the second straight day, this wave of protests and violence ever since the capture of Saddam Hussein was announced on Sunday here in Iraq. And, again, right in that Sunni belt, that Sunni triangle that goes north of Baghdad and west of Baghdad.

Speaking of the Iraqi capital, General Martin Dempsey, 1st Armour Division, in charge of this area of Iraq, says that the recent papers that were found in Saddam Hussein's hideout, just south of Tikrit, now netting at least three more arrests here in Baghdad, specifically, he says, in the past 24 hours, three men picked up. Apparently, they say, all three with financial connections to the insurgents.

Wolf, back to you now, in Washington.

BLITZER: Bill, you just got to Baghdad, a fresh pair of eyes. For all of our viewers, what's your immediate impression of what you're seeing in the Iraqi capital?

HEMMER: I tell you, Wolf, this is a city right now at war. Oftentimes it might be a bit difficult to see that because there appears to be so much chaos, just to the casual observer, the naked eye.

If you walk around this town, if you drive through it, you see the traffic moves at a pretty good clip, but yet the traffic lights are out. You can also see shops open and stores open, so there is business being done. In the middle of all of this, Wolf, you have this interesting juxtaposition with American military conveys essentially weaving in and out of traffic, trying to go about their work and their job.

This town is literally in need of just about everything, Wolf. It's still working right now, but again they've got a long way to go right now before they find some sort of stability.

If you ask me my first impression, that is it, nail on the head, here I Baghdad -- Wolf.

BLITZER: CNN's Bill Hemmer is going to be reporting for the next several days from Iraq. He'll be joining us. He'll be joining several shows here on CNN, including his own, AM AMERICA.

Bill, take care of yourself, be careful over there with all of our colleagues.

With violence surging since his capture, U.S. officials are all the more interested in learning what they can from Saddam Hussein.

Let's go live to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as Saddam Hussein settles into captivity, indeed Iraq remains a very complex environment for U.S. troops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): At a pro-Saddam Hussein in Al-Ramadi, a gun battle breaks out. In Falluja, a train carrying supplies to U.S. forces is attacked. The Iraqi people still absorbing what it means for their former leader to be in captivity.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has asked the Central Intelligence Agency to oversee what could be years of questioning of Saddam Hussein. CIA Director George Tenet will be in charge.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECY. OF DEF.: He and his people will be the regulator over the interrogations -- who will do it, the questions that will get posed, the management of the information that flows from those interrogations.

STARR: If they find Saddam Hussein was directing the insurgency that has killed dozens of U.S. troops, Rumsfeld help open the possibility the United States may take a role in Saddam Hussein's prosecution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Secretary Rumsfeld also said today, in his words, that Saddam Hussein is resigned to his fate as a captive.

And one additional detail today, Wolf. Everyone will remember the picture of Saddam Hussein in the initial moments of captivity, a physician taking a swab from his mouth, a saliva sample, to do some DNA testing. Well, today the DNA test is back and it is confirmed officially by the Pentagon, the man they are holding is Saddam Hussein -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very briefly, Barbara, what is his official status, according to the Pentagon?

STARR: Exactly, Wolf. He is not officially yet a prisoner of war under the Geneva Conventions, but he is being treated with all the protections, we are told, of the Geneva Convention.

Now there will be an interagency committee established in the Bush administration to deal with some of these key issues: his status, whether the International Red Cross will be allowed to visit him, any process for bringing him to trial before any Iraqi system and exactly how he will be treated in the future, all of this now to be dealt with by an interagency committee of the Bush administration.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thanks Barbara, very much.

So will it make a difference just who is squeezing Saddam Hussein? And what are interrogators learning?

Right now, joining us, our national security correspondent, David Ensor -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one thing putting George Tenet in charge of the interrogation means is that there will be no daily play-by-play readouts on how much Saddam Hussein is saying and whether he's sarcastic and defiant still or not. That, CIA officials, are making quite clear, and they are practiced at being pretty discrete.

But that said, the questioning of Saddam, they are telling us, continued for a third day today. The first key questions are anything he might know that could help prevent attacks on American troops and Iraqis. He may not be helpful, but the documents found with him have produced results, as we mentioned earlier, that that about 500 pages or so of papers, 50 to 60 documents, some minor, some handwritten, some typed, and some with names in them, those have already produced some results, including arrests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, U.S. ARMY: Within the first 24 hours of the capture of Saddam Hussein, we acted on some of the information that we were able to analyze, and we captured some high-level former Ba'ath leaders that, again, we considered to be the network that was providing financial support for the cell structure in Baghdad.

And I can only speak for Baghdad. That's my particular area of emphasis here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Some officials say the arrests are not in fact so high- level, but since they could save lives they are not unimportant.

The initial questioning; so far Saddam denied having weapons of mass destruction, denied ties to terror. No U.S. official I've spoken to is ready to predict whether that will hold, but within bounds, Wolf, he will definitely be pressed, and pressed fairly hard.

BLITZER: I assume that's an understatement.

Thanks very much, David Ensor, for that.

Here's your chance to weigh in on the story. Our Web question of the day is this: if Saddam Hussein is tried and found guilty, should he be executed? You can vote right now, CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Inside Saddam Hussein's cell. An Iraqi faces his former leader and asks him the tough questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL ABDUL MAHDI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: Why didn't you fight for yourself?

BLITZER (voice-over): Also, who tried to kill Saddam Hussein? A startling assassination attempt kept secret until now. We'll have details.

Plus this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this real? And then all of the sudden you realize, yes, it's real, and you'd better get out of there or your going to get hurt.

BLITZER: The frantic escape from a flying trailer. Dramatic pictures. We'll get to all of that, first though, more on our top story in this NEWS QUIZ.

The operation to capture Saddam Hussein shares a name with which Hollywood war movie? "High Noon," "The Desert Fox," "Red Dawn," "Torpedo Run." The answer later in the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As the United States and a broad coalition of allies battled Iraq in the first Gulf War, Israel was kept on the sidelines, despite a barrage of Iraqi missiles. But it turns out Israel was actually biding its time, plotting its own strike against Saddam Hussein.

Let's go live to CNN's John Vause. He's joining us live from Jerusalem -- John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Israelis began plotting to kill Saddam Hussein in early-1992, and a source close to the assassination plot has told CNN that it wasn't out of just pure revenge, but it was also a cold and calculated decision because the Iraqi dictator remained a strategic threat to Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE (voice-over): As SCUD after SCUD came crashing down, Israel did little more than brace for impact. Saddam was trying to draw Israel into the 1st Gulf War, hoping that would force Arab countries to break away from the U.S.-led coalition.

The ploy didn't work. Israel never retaliated, but also never forgot.

Now declassified military documents reveal that by 1992 an elaborate plan was in place to kill the Iraqi dictator. EPHRAIM SNEH, KNESSET MEMBER: I would not call it revenge, though Saddam Hussein in '91 launched 39 missiles to the very heart of our country.

VAUSE: The documents indicate the assassination plot was daring and complicated. An elite force of Israeli commandos would helicopter into Iraq and from a secure airstrip drive across country to Saddam's family grave in Tikrit, where Uday and Qusay are now buried.

Israeli intelligence, which later proved correct, knew that Saddam would be attending a funeral there for his uncle, and once there the commandos would fire a modified smart missile, killing the man who had launched the Scuds.

RON BEN YISHAY, MILITARY ANALYST: They thought that Saddam deserved a response, personally, and they would show the Arab world that you cannot harm Israel severely without being punished at least severely.

VAUSE: For almost 9 months they trained here, in Zalin (ph), in southern Israel. A source close to the assassination plot has told CNN the orders to begin preparation had come from, quote, "the highest levels of the Israeli government."

But after a training accident left five soldiers dead, the plan was shelved, much to the regret of some.

SNEH: If it was successful in 1992 or early '93, we could have spared 11 years of suffering for the Iraqi people and danger from the region.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: The five Israeli soldiers were killed during a rehearsal for that mission. They were playing the role of Saddam and his bodyguards when a live missile was fired at them by mistake. The soldier playing Saddam, though, survived -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What an amazing story, previously unknown to all of us.

Thanks very much, John Vause, joining us from Jerusalem.

Stare down with Saddam. What did the Iraqi leader have to say when he heard this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHDI: You are a coward man, Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER (voice-over): Hear the dramatic confrontation.

Also ahead, family wishes; one of Saddam Hussein's surviving children, speaking out.

And a startling take on the case against Michael Jackson. Who believes the singer and who doesn't? All of the news. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Joining us now to talk about Saddam Hussein's capture and what might happen next is Andrew Cockburn. Along with his brother Patrick he's the author of "Out of the Ashes: the Resurrection of Saddam Hussein," a comprehensive biography and analysis of the former Iraqi leader.

Andrew, thanks very much for joining us.

Were you surprised he gave up without any fight?

ANDREW COCKBURN, AUTHOR: Yes and no. He's always said -- he's always posed as the big hero who would go down fighting, you know, that they will never capture me, you know, I will never surrender.

And yet if you look at his career, he always has surrendered. There was a key episode in 1964, when he was on the run from the regime at that time in Baghdad, and he was cornered in a safe house with some comrades. The comrades said, "Come on, let's fight it out to our last bullet."

And Saddam said, "No, let's surrender."

BLITZER: Maybe that's a precursor of...

COCKBURN: So that's what he does.

BLITZER: So what happens now? The CIA is going to start interrogating him, presumably they already have. Does he -- what do you think he's going to do?

COCKBURN: Well, it depends on if he's gotten over the delusion that he's still the president of Iraq. I mean, remember what he said to the soldier when he came out of his burrow, you know, "I'm the president of Iraq," you know, "Can we negotiate."

Their first task will be to persuade him that he's not the head of state anymore.

BLITZER: So assuming they degrade him and they humiliate him and they let him know this is not the way it used to me, the leader of Mesopotamia or whatever, does he start talking and giving up secrets?

COCKBURN: Well, I don't think so. I mean, they may put the electrodes on and make him, but I mean short of that, I think this is his last chance to redeem his image. I mean, he humiliated himself by surrendering. That's probably dawning on him now.

So this is his last chance to prove that the image he promoted all those years actually had some validity. So he may -- I think he'll probably -- my guess is he'll be defiant and hold out as long as he can.

BLITZER: He'll just resist and all the sophisticated techniques, we'll see if those techniques work.

Do you think he knows the secrets? Or was he just sort of a leader -- if there are WMD, weapons of mass destruction, hidden, would he know where they are?

COCKBURN: If there were, he would. I mean, it seems to me there aren't, but if there were, he would. He will know -- I mean, he might not be able to remember the bank account numbers, but he'd know where the money is hidden, roughly.

BLITZER: And if there were other leaders around the world who were on his payroll in various countries, all sorts of rumors over the years, French, Russian, German, he would presumably know that too, right?

COCKBURN: He would know that, and that's actually the most interesting information he's probably got to give up, I mean, who was on the payroll. Because that was the way he operated.

BLITZER: Andrew Cockburn, thanks very much.

COCKBURN: You're welcome.

BLITZER: Why didn't he fight back? That's a question posed to Saddam by one of his visitors while in captivity. Find out how he responded.

On duty; a near death scare. What the dash-cam caught on camera. You'll be amazed when you see this.

Tough on defense; that's the shared message two Democratic presidential contenders are pushing today. Find out whom they're both targeting. That's coming up later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

President Bush says Saddam Hussein deserves the ultimate penalty. That would be death. We'll be live at the White House.

First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: What's it like to go face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball, with Saddam Hussein?

When he was in power, it must have been a terrifying experience for almost all Iraqis. Now the tables have been turned.

Earlier today I spoke with an official of the new Iraq who met with the ex-dictator shortly after his capture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): An extraordinary Sunday about to get surreal for a member of Iraq's Governing Council.

Saddam Hussein is in U.S. custody. Four members of the Governing Council are asked to help identify him. The arrangement is for them to view the former dictator from behind a mirror or closed circuit TV. But they ask and are granted permission to confront their tormentor face-to-face.

MAHDI: That was an important moment, I should say.

BLITZER: Adel Abdul Mahdi, one of the four council members who entered the room to question Saddam. He represents the Shiite Muslim religious faction in the council, a group long targeted by Saddam and his henchmen. He's known Saddam since the '60s, recognizes him right away, but sees something he may never have envisioned.

MAHDI: I saw him as a broken man although he tried to keep his personality as a strong one.

BLITZER: Abdul Mahdi says Saddam tried to question them, to push them into a political discussion. They wouldn't budge.

MAHDI: We tried, well, to limit our discussion with him on his crimes, on his bad deeds, et cetera.

BLITZER: Abdul Madhi and his colleagues hammered Saddam on why he had opponents killed, why he ordered the gas attack on Kurdish civilians in 1998. They now describe Saddam as unrepentant, defiant, arrogant. Abdul Mahdi says they had the last laugh, chiding him about his surrender.

MAHDI: You had, at least, a pistol. Why didn't you fight for yourself? Why didn't you fight for your cause? At least your sons fought for themselves. You didn't do it. You are a cold man, Saddam Hussein. He said, "you don't know what's the meaning of fighting." We said, "No, we know exactly what is the meaning of fighting." So he turned his face.

BLITZER: Abdul Mahdi himself is unrepentant on wanting Saddam to be tried by Iraqis and then -- the end result should be his execution?

MAHDI: Maybe. Why not.

BLITZER: And with Saddam Hussein's capture, the whereabouts of almost all of the members of Iraq's most notorious family are now known. CNN's Jennifer Coggiola is following this part of the story. She's joining us now live -- Jennifer.

JENNIFER COGGIOLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, they captured Saddam Hussein three days ago. Now being held, of course, by U.S. officials at an undisclosed location. But what about his family, his five children? Where are they all now?

COGGIOLA (voice-over): Saddam's two sons, feared nearly as much as their father. Uday, the eldest, the head of the paramilitary Fedayeen and said to be responsible for beatings, torture and rape. His brother, Qasay, head of the special Republican guard seen here training his young sons was presumed to be the heir apparent.

Just a week after being shot and killed by coalition forces in Mosul, their bullet-riddled bodies were turned over to the Iraqi Red Crescent by the U.S. Uday and Qasay are currently buried in Tikrit, the family's hometown. Saddam's three daughters, Raghad, the oldest, and her sister Rana fled to Amman, Jordan this past summer with their nine children where they were given asylum by King Hussein. A tearful interview shortly after arriving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN KAMAL, SADDAM'S DAUGHTER: Loving. Has a big heart. Loves his daughters, sons, grandchildren. He was very good father.

COGGIOLA: They also spoke of their new life in Jordan.

RANA HUSSEIN KAMAL (through translator): This is the beginning of my life and the beginning of my life as a mother that I want my children to have with my arrival in Amman.

COGGIOLA: Raghad and Rana remain there today.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: From what little I know, I think they're doing -- life is normal. They're looking after their children and trying to put their lives together, I think.

COGGIOLA: In a phone interview with al-Arabia Television Network, Raghad argued the U.S. would never have been able to catch her father unless he was sedated.

RAGHAD (through translator): Any respectable person who knew him during his leadership and his resistance and his power would realize that the person on TV was a sedated Saddam Hussein. Of course, there is a reason why they are showing these pictures. Where is the democracy?

COGGIOLA (voice-over): The whereabouts of the third daughter, Hala, is still unconfirmed, though Raghad suggested she could be with her sisters in Jordan.

RAGHAD (through translator): We as the daughters of Saddam Hussein, we ask for a fair and legal trial and not one held by the Iraqi Governing Council because we know who's behind it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COGGIOLA: Other speculation is that Hala is in Yemen or possibly Syria with her mother, Saddam's first wife. Saddam's second wife is rumored to be in Lebanon, possibly living with her son and Saddam's grandson, 22-year-old Ali.

British and Iraqi newspapers have reported that in recent weeks she received up to $5 million from Saddam and spoke with him as recently as a week before his capture. Well, the bottom line, her whereabouts and that of other members of Saddam's family, still unclear. But they are important to the U.S. because they could have additional information about the life of Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: CNN's Jennifer Coggiola. Thanks very much. Good reporting.

Baker saving billions for Iraq. Why the former secretary of state is meeting with European leaders on Iraq's behalf.

Joe Lieberman lays on Howard Dean. The presidential candidate says he's the Democrat's best hope of defeating George Bush. Hear why he thinks Dean simply can't.

And preparing for the new year high atop Time's Square. Note, this isn't a job for those horrified of heights. We'll get to all of that.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

War crimes testimony. Former NATO commander Wesley Clark says Slobodan Milosevic is the same argumentative, petulant man he faced on a negotiating table during the Balkan wars. Clark, now a Democratic presidential candidate, has wrapped up two days of testimony at the former Yugoslav president's war crimes trial. The proceeding is taking place at The Hague in The Netherlands.

Hostage drama. After a tense standoff, almost a dozen people held by Chechen rebels are now free. The rebels crossed into neighboring Dagestan today killing at least nine border guards and taking villagers hostage. After the hostages were freed, the rebels fled. Some have been tracked down by Russian forces and killed.

Death and destruction. Parts of India are in ruins after a deadly cyclone. Thousands of people were evacuated as the cyclone smashed ashore along India's southeast coast.

Road to the future. Afghanistan is celebrating the opening of a new highway linking Kabul and Kandahar. Most of the $270 million project was funded by the U.S. government. The road was built amid increasing attacks from Taliban insurgents.

Protecting the Vatican. The main boulevard leading into St. Peter's Square is closed overnight, at least for now. The security move comes after word that Italy received a warning from Israel's intelligence agency of possible terrorist attacks on Christian sites around Christmas and Hanukkah.

And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked, the operation to capture Saddam Hussein shared a name with which Hollywood war movie? The answer, Red Dawn.

The 1984 movie tells the story of a fictional war in America when a group of high schoolers defeats the Russian army. Nothing like the movie, close to 600 U.S. Soldiers were involved in "Operation Red Dawn" when Saddam was captured.

The former secretary of state, James Baker, is meeting with success in trying to get European countries help relieve some of Iraq's $120 billion debt. We have two reports.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is in Paris and Stephanie Halazs is Berlin. Lets begin with Jim.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The former secretary of state met a very receptive audience here in France. President Jacques Chirac telling James Baker exactly what he told the Iraqi delegation that was here yesterday, that namely that the French were quite happy to consider reducing Iraqi debt some time next year under the Paris Club rules. Now, whether that's by restructuring the debt, putting off debt payments, or by canceling the debt all together is unclear. Certainly, the Iraqis would prefer the debt be canceled, but not even the U.S. has offered to do that yet.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.

STEPHANIE HALAZS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. special envoy, James Baker met the German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder for about 45 minutes in Berlin Tuesday. Coming out of the meeting, the German government issued a statement saying that Germany was willing to cooperate. That it was willing to restructure and relieve some of the debt. Germany is owed $5 billion by Iraq. Almost half is interest alone. Now, those are more conciliatory tones than we heard last week when the German government called unacceptable the Pentagon order only those who helped were allowed to get those reconstruction orders.

Stephanie Halasz, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So, can Baker mission help the Bush administration patch things with the allies?

And what about the strong words with President Bush telling ABC News that Saddam should receive the ultimate penalty. For some thinking inside he West Wing, let's go to White House right now.

The assistant to the president for communications, Dan Bartlett. Dan, thanks very much for joining us.

Let's get to those two questions in just a second. But first, listen to what the Democratic presidential hopeful, Howard Dean, the Democratic presidential hopeful, said yesterday after the capture of Saddam Hussein. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The capture of Saddam is a good thing, which I hope very much will keep our soldiers in Iraq and around the world safer, but the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Do you agree that America is not safer now with the capture of Saddam Hussein?

DAN BARTLETT, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Well, Wolf, you know that the presidential politics will take its own course. The Democratic primary is spirited right now. There are many candidates saying a lot of things. There's a real battle going on for the heart and soul of the Democratic party. Many of the candidates all having conflicting views on what the direction is for their party. That will play out in its course. President Bush, of course, is focused on the nation's priorities and the nation's priority to make America safer, to make our country more prosperous and to make it a better country. And the steps taken in the war in Iraq and the steps taken by our U.S. troops in Iraq, particularly with the capture of Saddam Hussein has made America much safer.

BLITZER: Tell us how America is safer now that Saddam Hussein has been captured and is being interrogated by U.S. authorities as opposed to when he was simply on the run?

BARTLETT: Well, Wolf, I think it is important to take a step back. The fact of the matter is, Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator with weapons of mass destruction, used them against his own country, used them as he invaded another country. He was a threat to the world. He was a threat to the American people. He was a threat to his own people. And the fact that this chapter in Iraqi history is now closed is an important step forward because now, more so than ever, the Iraqi people can realize the future of their own country, which is going to be free and prosperous, which is a security interest of the United States and the entire world.

BLITZER: Do you relish the thought of Howard Dean being the Democratic presidential nominee?

BARTLETT: There's plenty of times for politics later. Well, let them sort out their differences. They've got a family affair going on on the other side. As soon as they do, we'll be fully engaged to talk to whoever the nominee is. And the president as he as said, is more than willing to go to the people and talk about his vision and his future and his record. So there's plenty of time left to debate.

BLITZER: We noticed that the president Saddam Hussein should get and I am quoting now, "The ultimate penalty," in the interview with Diane Sawyer that will air tonight on ABC News. I assume that means he wants Saddam Hussein to be executed?

BARTLETT: The president is talking about a process in which the Iraqi people themselves will play a central role to determine the fate and type of justice that Saddam Hussein will have and what he denied to millions of his own citizens. The president's views, as he said, don't matter in this case. He personally is -- has said that the fact of the matter that he has killed so many of his own people, that he has invaded countries, the atrocities that he has leveled against his own people deserve the ultimate penalty. But That's Up to the Iraqi people to determine. He's confident they will come forward with a process. As he said yesterday, that will withstand international scrutiny. And we look forward to that process and moving forward.

BLITZER: You've spent a lot of time with the president over these past two, three, four days. Give us a little human side. How has he changed, if he's changed at all knowing that Saddam Hussein has been captured?

BARTLETT: Well, Wolf, it's interesting. This presidency has been marked by a lot of big moments. Obviously, 9/11. The fact we went to war in Afghanistan, removed the Taliban. The situation in Iraq and the war there. This was a special moment for the Iraqi people with the capture of Saddam Hussein. It was a special moment for our country because of the pride we obviously have in our U.S. troops and the skill and valor in which they're serving their country is incredibly inspiring and powerful. And that's something that President Bush thinks highly of and is comforted by. He and Mrs. Bush was, obviously, touched by the reaction of the Iraqi people. So, It Is a good day for the Iraqi people and a good day for America.

BLITZER: One final question. If the French, Germans and Russians agree formally to eliminate or reduce the debt from Iraq, will the president reconsider the notion of letting them bid for prime contracts to rebuild Iraq?

BARTLETT: Well, President Bush had a good conversation with Secretary Baker earlier today, in which he debriefed him on the meetings that has taken place in Paris and Berlin. This is a good first step for them to have these meetings. And it's important we continue to work out the details in order to follow through on these important commitments. We'll let those take place first. The president made a decision on contracting based on a simple principle that U.S. taxpayer dollars that are being spent should go to those countries that is are participating in the effort in Iraq. There's more than 60 different countries that are participating in Iraq. That are sacrificing and making enormous efforts on behalf of the Iraqi people. But as we go forward and circumstances change, we will work with these countries. And today was a good first step.

BLITZER: All right. We'll leave it at that. Thanks very much. Dan Bartlett joining us from the north lawn of the White House.

BARTLETT: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein's capture is keeping international policy in the spot light. On the campaign trail. And today, the front runner Howard Dean is still catching heat for his anti-war stance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): At Drake University in Des Moines today, John Kerry warns voters to be wary of what he calls unilateralism from President Bush. SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But Saddam's capture also represents a vital chance for the United States to build a coalition to win the peace that we should have built in order to wage the war.

BLITZER: In Manchester, New Hampshire, Joe Lieberman taps his Senate and campaign experience to send the message to Democratic voters. Your candidate cannot be elected if he's a one-trick pony.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will take us forward building on the policies of Bill Clinton. Not abandoning them as George W. Bush has and Howard Dean would.

BLITZER: Howard Dean has given his big foreign policy speech. He needs more endorsements and gets one from former Arizona governor and interior secretary, Bruce Babbitt.

BRUCE BABBITT, FORMER INTERIOR SECRETARY: We can start a ball rolling that says we're going to change direction and get this thing moving. It will go through Arizona and we are going to elect Howard Dean as our next president.

BLITZER: Al Sharpton catches endorsement fever at city hall. His new friends, Democratic congressman Jose Serrano and Ed Towns.

REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have more this morning than I've had in my career. So I am not slipping I am growing.

BLITZER: And President Bush signs the American Dream for first- time home down payment act for first time home buyers at Housing and Urban Development.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This administration will strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home.

BLITZER: And that's our look at 2004 presidential candidates on the trail.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Is Kobe Bryant's accuser making up the story to get attention? The latest in this case.

And then accusations against Michael Jackson have people talking. And they don't necessarily agree. Is race a factor?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This just in to CNN. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee is recommending the so-called "morning after pill" be made available without, repeat, without a prescription. The pill known as Plan B is a contraceptive. Its makers say when its taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, it can reduce the risk of pregnancy almost 90 percent. The FDA will make a decision on the committee's recommendation.

The trial of the sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo is now in the hands of a jury. That story stops our justice report. In closing arguments, prosecutors urged the jury not to believe Malvo's insanity defense. Malvo's lawyers maintained he was basically brainwashed by John Muhammad who was convicted last month. There are also developments in the cases against Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson. Here's a quick update.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT SANDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, both sides have filed a flurry of motions in court. In one of the motions, Bryant's lawyers claim Kobe's accuser is making up the story to get attention from her ex-boyfriend.

Bryant's attorneys also want to admit evidence about the accuser's mental state including two reported suicide attempts. As for the prosecution, they want to take measurements of Kobe Bryant's hands. The woman said Bryant put his hands around her throat during the alleged incident.

Prosecutors also want any discussion of the woman's past to be done in private out of the view of reporters. The judge in the Bryant case will hear some of these motions this Friday, December 19. I'm Scott Sander reporting for CNN in Denver.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the Michael Jackson case, we'll soon hear exactly what Michael Jackson is to be charged with. Sources with the Santa Barbara county district attorney's office telling us he will be formally charged on Thursday.

This comes nearly a month after Michael Jackson was booked on suspicion of multiple counts of child molestation. Jackson has maintained his innocence. He calls the allegations against him a big lie. Jackson will not be in court on Thursday. He remains free on a $3 million bond. His next court appearance is set for January 9 for his arraignment. Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Public opinion on the Jackson case is divided along race lines according to a new CNN/USA Today Gallup poll. It finds 62 percent of whites say the molestation allegations against Jackson are true, while only 26 percent say they're not true. The numbers are basically reversed among African Americans.

A brush with death. A wayward deer hitching a ride on the rails and a naughty Santa. Some rather bizarre incidents have taken place across the United States this week and all of them caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A close call for two Utah highway patrol officers. They had to run for their lives at an accident scene. The officers were at the scene of a rollover accident when one of them looked up to see a van pulling a cargo trailer sliding out of control. After the van slammed into the rolled over pick up truck, the trailer went flying through the air. It narrowly missed the two troopers.

If Santa is missing a reindeer, he might want to check the Washington D.C. Metro system. Check this out. A deer found its way into a Metro station, ran down the escalator and darted down the platform past a waiting train. The animal then jumped on to the tracks and headed off into the woods.

LISA FARBSTEIN, METRO SPOKESWOMAN: We have fondly dubbed him Rudolph the blue line reindeer.

BLITZER: And near Pittsburgh, a Santa Claus gone bad. A man with a long beard and wearing a red fur-lined suit held up a bank yesterday. He pulled a handgun on a teller and demanded money. He stuffed the cash in a red sack and fled the scene. At last word, he was still on the loose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And there's no word how much loot this naughty Santa walked away with. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Those are the results of our web question of the day. Take a look. Not a scientific poll.

And look at this, a lesson to be learned in our picture of the day. It's never too early to plan ahead. A worker scaled the flagpole atop Times Square in New York to install the rigging for the Waterford crystal ball that will be used to usher in the New Year. The ball will be 400 feet above ground level. This job certainly not for anyone afraid of heights. That's not me. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Fate; Demostrations Turn Violen in Support of Saddam in Iraq>


Aired December 16, 2003 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Happening now. Diehards taking to the streets across Iraq. Demonstrations turn violent in support of Saddam Hussein.
And new details just coming in. President Bush goes further than he ever has before on Saddam Hussein's fate.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER (voice-over): Bonanza in a briefcase. Saddam's secret papers. Stare down with Saddam. You'll hear about a dramatic face- to-face meeting with the ex-dictator. And Saddam in the crosshairs. Taking the wraps off an assassination plot, a plot that went very wrong.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, December 16, 2003.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: It's been a day of fast-moving, dramatic developments in Iraq.

Raids, riots and deadly shootouts. As U.S. intelligence puts the squeeze on Saddam Hussein, his loyalists are striking back. And we now know who will be putting the questions directly to Saddam Hussein.

We'll go live to our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He's in Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit.

Bill Hemmer, joining us tonight from Baghdad. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon. And our national security correspondent, David Ensor, here in Washington. All that coming up.

First, though, this late-developing story. After the capture of Saddam Hussein, President Bush vowed the ex-dictator would be put on trial, although he said it was up to the Iraqis to decide Saddam Hussein's ultimate fate.

Now the president is saying how he really feels. In an interview with Diane Sawyer for ABC News "Primetime," the president says, and I'm quoting now, "Let's just see what penalty he gets, but I think he ought to receive the ultimate penalty for what he has done to his people."

The president added, still quoting, "He is a torturer, a murderer, and they had rape rooms, and this is a disgusting tyrant who deserves justice, the ultimate justice. But that will be decided not by the president of the United States but by the citizens of Iraq in one form or another."

Later this hour, I'll go one-on-one with a top White House official, the communications director at the White House, Dan Bartlett. He'll join me live.

But now to Iraq. CNN's Nic Robertson is still in Tikrit. He's got details of what the United States is calling another successful raid, nabbing dozens of men suspected of attacks on U.S. forces. Among them, one that officials are calling a high-value target.

Nic is joining us now live -- Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTL. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this raid took place about 25 miles south of Tikrit in the town of Samaria, a town that has given coalition forces a lot of troubles, a lot of improvised explosive devices placed around that town, targeting the U.S. troops.

The raid started at 4:30 in the morning. They went to the house where the high-value target lived. They found him in his house. He is described as a Fedayeen financier, a possible cell leader of anti- coalition elements.

In that house along with the high-value target were 73 other men, all young men, all of military age, we're told. There were no women, there were no children in this house, according to coalition officials. Along with the high-value target and 73 men were amounts of explosives, 135 pounds of gunpowder, detonation cords, explosive caps, artillery rounds, mortar shells -- all the equipment, including car batteries -- all the equipment, we are told, to make these improvised explosive devices.

The significance, coalition forces say, is that they believe they may have caught the whole or a part of an anti-coalition cell in the town of Samaria. And just today, in Tikrit, one of those improvised explosive devices went off, injuring three U.S. soldiers, two of them seriously, although their condition is now stable -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson with the latest from Tikrit. Thanks, Nic, very much.

Despite that success and the weekend capture of Saddam Hussein, there's been no letup in the violence plaguing the country and U.S. forces.

CNN's Bill Hemmer is monitoring all these developments. He's now in Baghdad, joining us live with the latest -- Bill.

BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, two straight days of violent protests. We have seen them on Monday, then again today. Let's start in Ramadi, 60 miles west of Baghdad, the capital city, protests there described as significant earlier today, hundreds turning out in the streets. Forces came under fire near the government center. We're told two Iraqis are dead as a result. One American soldier is wounded, also reported in nearby Falluja as well.

In Mosul, north of the Baghdad capital, Wolf, more protests, more violence, more casualties there. One policeman is dead, another wounded. Soldiers apparently firing warning shots in the air. Those shots coming down and killing the policeman and wounding yet another.

In Baji, which is also north of Baghdad, protesters out I force yet again today, some carrying pictures of Saddam Hussein. U.S. troops later called in using water cannons to help disperse the crowds there, many of them chanting, quote, "With our soul, with our blood, we serve you, Saddam."

So, again, Wolf, the second straight day, this wave of protests and violence ever since the capture of Saddam Hussein was announced on Sunday here in Iraq. And, again, right in that Sunni belt, that Sunni triangle that goes north of Baghdad and west of Baghdad.

Speaking of the Iraqi capital, General Martin Dempsey, 1st Armour Division, in charge of this area of Iraq, says that the recent papers that were found in Saddam Hussein's hideout, just south of Tikrit, now netting at least three more arrests here in Baghdad, specifically, he says, in the past 24 hours, three men picked up. Apparently, they say, all three with financial connections to the insurgents.

Wolf, back to you now, in Washington.

BLITZER: Bill, you just got to Baghdad, a fresh pair of eyes. For all of our viewers, what's your immediate impression of what you're seeing in the Iraqi capital?

HEMMER: I tell you, Wolf, this is a city right now at war. Oftentimes it might be a bit difficult to see that because there appears to be so much chaos, just to the casual observer, the naked eye.

If you walk around this town, if you drive through it, you see the traffic moves at a pretty good clip, but yet the traffic lights are out. You can also see shops open and stores open, so there is business being done. In the middle of all of this, Wolf, you have this interesting juxtaposition with American military conveys essentially weaving in and out of traffic, trying to go about their work and their job.

This town is literally in need of just about everything, Wolf. It's still working right now, but again they've got a long way to go right now before they find some sort of stability.

If you ask me my first impression, that is it, nail on the head, here I Baghdad -- Wolf.

BLITZER: CNN's Bill Hemmer is going to be reporting for the next several days from Iraq. He'll be joining us. He'll be joining several shows here on CNN, including his own, AM AMERICA.

Bill, take care of yourself, be careful over there with all of our colleagues.

With violence surging since his capture, U.S. officials are all the more interested in learning what they can from Saddam Hussein.

Let's go live to our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as Saddam Hussein settles into captivity, indeed Iraq remains a very complex environment for U.S. troops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): At a pro-Saddam Hussein in Al-Ramadi, a gun battle breaks out. In Falluja, a train carrying supplies to U.S. forces is attacked. The Iraqi people still absorbing what it means for their former leader to be in captivity.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has asked the Central Intelligence Agency to oversee what could be years of questioning of Saddam Hussein. CIA Director George Tenet will be in charge.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECY. OF DEF.: He and his people will be the regulator over the interrogations -- who will do it, the questions that will get posed, the management of the information that flows from those interrogations.

STARR: If they find Saddam Hussein was directing the insurgency that has killed dozens of U.S. troops, Rumsfeld help open the possibility the United States may take a role in Saddam Hussein's prosecution.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Secretary Rumsfeld also said today, in his words, that Saddam Hussein is resigned to his fate as a captive.

And one additional detail today, Wolf. Everyone will remember the picture of Saddam Hussein in the initial moments of captivity, a physician taking a swab from his mouth, a saliva sample, to do some DNA testing. Well, today the DNA test is back and it is confirmed officially by the Pentagon, the man they are holding is Saddam Hussein -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And very briefly, Barbara, what is his official status, according to the Pentagon?

STARR: Exactly, Wolf. He is not officially yet a prisoner of war under the Geneva Conventions, but he is being treated with all the protections, we are told, of the Geneva Convention.

Now there will be an interagency committee established in the Bush administration to deal with some of these key issues: his status, whether the International Red Cross will be allowed to visit him, any process for bringing him to trial before any Iraqi system and exactly how he will be treated in the future, all of this now to be dealt with by an interagency committee of the Bush administration.

BLITZER: Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon, thanks Barbara, very much.

So will it make a difference just who is squeezing Saddam Hussein? And what are interrogators learning?

Right now, joining us, our national security correspondent, David Ensor -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one thing putting George Tenet in charge of the interrogation means is that there will be no daily play-by-play readouts on how much Saddam Hussein is saying and whether he's sarcastic and defiant still or not. That, CIA officials, are making quite clear, and they are practiced at being pretty discrete.

But that said, the questioning of Saddam, they are telling us, continued for a third day today. The first key questions are anything he might know that could help prevent attacks on American troops and Iraqis. He may not be helpful, but the documents found with him have produced results, as we mentioned earlier, that that about 500 pages or so of papers, 50 to 60 documents, some minor, some handwritten, some typed, and some with names in them, those have already produced some results, including arrests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, U.S. ARMY: Within the first 24 hours of the capture of Saddam Hussein, we acted on some of the information that we were able to analyze, and we captured some high-level former Ba'ath leaders that, again, we considered to be the network that was providing financial support for the cell structure in Baghdad.

And I can only speak for Baghdad. That's my particular area of emphasis here in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: Some officials say the arrests are not in fact so high- level, but since they could save lives they are not unimportant.

The initial questioning; so far Saddam denied having weapons of mass destruction, denied ties to terror. No U.S. official I've spoken to is ready to predict whether that will hold, but within bounds, Wolf, he will definitely be pressed, and pressed fairly hard.

BLITZER: I assume that's an understatement.

Thanks very much, David Ensor, for that.

Here's your chance to weigh in on the story. Our Web question of the day is this: if Saddam Hussein is tried and found guilty, should he be executed? You can vote right now, CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Inside Saddam Hussein's cell. An Iraqi faces his former leader and asks him the tough questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL ABDUL MAHDI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: Why didn't you fight for yourself?

BLITZER (voice-over): Also, who tried to kill Saddam Hussein? A startling assassination attempt kept secret until now. We'll have details.

Plus this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this real? And then all of the sudden you realize, yes, it's real, and you'd better get out of there or your going to get hurt.

BLITZER: The frantic escape from a flying trailer. Dramatic pictures. We'll get to all of that, first though, more on our top story in this NEWS QUIZ.

The operation to capture Saddam Hussein shares a name with which Hollywood war movie? "High Noon," "The Desert Fox," "Red Dawn," "Torpedo Run." The answer later in the show.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As the United States and a broad coalition of allies battled Iraq in the first Gulf War, Israel was kept on the sidelines, despite a barrage of Iraqi missiles. But it turns out Israel was actually biding its time, plotting its own strike against Saddam Hussein.

Let's go live to CNN's John Vause. He's joining us live from Jerusalem -- John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Israelis began plotting to kill Saddam Hussein in early-1992, and a source close to the assassination plot has told CNN that it wasn't out of just pure revenge, but it was also a cold and calculated decision because the Iraqi dictator remained a strategic threat to Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE (voice-over): As SCUD after SCUD came crashing down, Israel did little more than brace for impact. Saddam was trying to draw Israel into the 1st Gulf War, hoping that would force Arab countries to break away from the U.S.-led coalition.

The ploy didn't work. Israel never retaliated, but also never forgot.

Now declassified military documents reveal that by 1992 an elaborate plan was in place to kill the Iraqi dictator. EPHRAIM SNEH, KNESSET MEMBER: I would not call it revenge, though Saddam Hussein in '91 launched 39 missiles to the very heart of our country.

VAUSE: The documents indicate the assassination plot was daring and complicated. An elite force of Israeli commandos would helicopter into Iraq and from a secure airstrip drive across country to Saddam's family grave in Tikrit, where Uday and Qusay are now buried.

Israeli intelligence, which later proved correct, knew that Saddam would be attending a funeral there for his uncle, and once there the commandos would fire a modified smart missile, killing the man who had launched the Scuds.

RON BEN YISHAY, MILITARY ANALYST: They thought that Saddam deserved a response, personally, and they would show the Arab world that you cannot harm Israel severely without being punished at least severely.

VAUSE: For almost 9 months they trained here, in Zalin (ph), in southern Israel. A source close to the assassination plot has told CNN the orders to begin preparation had come from, quote, "the highest levels of the Israeli government."

But after a training accident left five soldiers dead, the plan was shelved, much to the regret of some.

SNEH: If it was successful in 1992 or early '93, we could have spared 11 years of suffering for the Iraqi people and danger from the region.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAUSE: The five Israeli soldiers were killed during a rehearsal for that mission. They were playing the role of Saddam and his bodyguards when a live missile was fired at them by mistake. The soldier playing Saddam, though, survived -- Wolf.

BLITZER: What an amazing story, previously unknown to all of us.

Thanks very much, John Vause, joining us from Jerusalem.

Stare down with Saddam. What did the Iraqi leader have to say when he heard this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHDI: You are a coward man, Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER (voice-over): Hear the dramatic confrontation.

Also ahead, family wishes; one of Saddam Hussein's surviving children, speaking out.

And a startling take on the case against Michael Jackson. Who believes the singer and who doesn't? All of the news. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Joining us now to talk about Saddam Hussein's capture and what might happen next is Andrew Cockburn. Along with his brother Patrick he's the author of "Out of the Ashes: the Resurrection of Saddam Hussein," a comprehensive biography and analysis of the former Iraqi leader.

Andrew, thanks very much for joining us.

Were you surprised he gave up without any fight?

ANDREW COCKBURN, AUTHOR: Yes and no. He's always said -- he's always posed as the big hero who would go down fighting, you know, that they will never capture me, you know, I will never surrender.

And yet if you look at his career, he always has surrendered. There was a key episode in 1964, when he was on the run from the regime at that time in Baghdad, and he was cornered in a safe house with some comrades. The comrades said, "Come on, let's fight it out to our last bullet."

And Saddam said, "No, let's surrender."

BLITZER: Maybe that's a precursor of...

COCKBURN: So that's what he does.

BLITZER: So what happens now? The CIA is going to start interrogating him, presumably they already have. Does he -- what do you think he's going to do?

COCKBURN: Well, it depends on if he's gotten over the delusion that he's still the president of Iraq. I mean, remember what he said to the soldier when he came out of his burrow, you know, "I'm the president of Iraq," you know, "Can we negotiate."

Their first task will be to persuade him that he's not the head of state anymore.

BLITZER: So assuming they degrade him and they humiliate him and they let him know this is not the way it used to me, the leader of Mesopotamia or whatever, does he start talking and giving up secrets?

COCKBURN: Well, I don't think so. I mean, they may put the electrodes on and make him, but I mean short of that, I think this is his last chance to redeem his image. I mean, he humiliated himself by surrendering. That's probably dawning on him now.

So this is his last chance to prove that the image he promoted all those years actually had some validity. So he may -- I think he'll probably -- my guess is he'll be defiant and hold out as long as he can.

BLITZER: He'll just resist and all the sophisticated techniques, we'll see if those techniques work.

Do you think he knows the secrets? Or was he just sort of a leader -- if there are WMD, weapons of mass destruction, hidden, would he know where they are?

COCKBURN: If there were, he would. I mean, it seems to me there aren't, but if there were, he would. He will know -- I mean, he might not be able to remember the bank account numbers, but he'd know where the money is hidden, roughly.

BLITZER: And if there were other leaders around the world who were on his payroll in various countries, all sorts of rumors over the years, French, Russian, German, he would presumably know that too, right?

COCKBURN: He would know that, and that's actually the most interesting information he's probably got to give up, I mean, who was on the payroll. Because that was the way he operated.

BLITZER: Andrew Cockburn, thanks very much.

COCKBURN: You're welcome.

BLITZER: Why didn't he fight back? That's a question posed to Saddam by one of his visitors while in captivity. Find out how he responded.

On duty; a near death scare. What the dash-cam caught on camera. You'll be amazed when you see this.

Tough on defense; that's the shared message two Democratic presidential contenders are pushing today. Find out whom they're both targeting. That's coming up later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

President Bush says Saddam Hussein deserves the ultimate penalty. That would be death. We'll be live at the White House.

First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

(NEWSBREAK)

BLITZER: What's it like to go face-to-face, eyeball-to-eyeball, with Saddam Hussein?

When he was in power, it must have been a terrifying experience for almost all Iraqis. Now the tables have been turned.

Earlier today I spoke with an official of the new Iraq who met with the ex-dictator shortly after his capture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): An extraordinary Sunday about to get surreal for a member of Iraq's Governing Council.

Saddam Hussein is in U.S. custody. Four members of the Governing Council are asked to help identify him. The arrangement is for them to view the former dictator from behind a mirror or closed circuit TV. But they ask and are granted permission to confront their tormentor face-to-face.

MAHDI: That was an important moment, I should say.

BLITZER: Adel Abdul Mahdi, one of the four council members who entered the room to question Saddam. He represents the Shiite Muslim religious faction in the council, a group long targeted by Saddam and his henchmen. He's known Saddam since the '60s, recognizes him right away, but sees something he may never have envisioned.

MAHDI: I saw him as a broken man although he tried to keep his personality as a strong one.

BLITZER: Abdul Mahdi says Saddam tried to question them, to push them into a political discussion. They wouldn't budge.

MAHDI: We tried, well, to limit our discussion with him on his crimes, on his bad deeds, et cetera.

BLITZER: Abdul Madhi and his colleagues hammered Saddam on why he had opponents killed, why he ordered the gas attack on Kurdish civilians in 1998. They now describe Saddam as unrepentant, defiant, arrogant. Abdul Mahdi says they had the last laugh, chiding him about his surrender.

MAHDI: You had, at least, a pistol. Why didn't you fight for yourself? Why didn't you fight for your cause? At least your sons fought for themselves. You didn't do it. You are a cold man, Saddam Hussein. He said, "you don't know what's the meaning of fighting." We said, "No, we know exactly what is the meaning of fighting." So he turned his face.

BLITZER: Abdul Mahdi himself is unrepentant on wanting Saddam to be tried by Iraqis and then -- the end result should be his execution?

MAHDI: Maybe. Why not.

BLITZER: And with Saddam Hussein's capture, the whereabouts of almost all of the members of Iraq's most notorious family are now known. CNN's Jennifer Coggiola is following this part of the story. She's joining us now live -- Jennifer.

JENNIFER COGGIOLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Wolf. Well, they captured Saddam Hussein three days ago. Now being held, of course, by U.S. officials at an undisclosed location. But what about his family, his five children? Where are they all now?

COGGIOLA (voice-over): Saddam's two sons, feared nearly as much as their father. Uday, the eldest, the head of the paramilitary Fedayeen and said to be responsible for beatings, torture and rape. His brother, Qasay, head of the special Republican guard seen here training his young sons was presumed to be the heir apparent.

Just a week after being shot and killed by coalition forces in Mosul, their bullet-riddled bodies were turned over to the Iraqi Red Crescent by the U.S. Uday and Qasay are currently buried in Tikrit, the family's hometown. Saddam's three daughters, Raghad, the oldest, and her sister Rana fled to Amman, Jordan this past summer with their nine children where they were given asylum by King Hussein. A tearful interview shortly after arriving.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAGHAD HUSSEIN KAMAL, SADDAM'S DAUGHTER: Loving. Has a big heart. Loves his daughters, sons, grandchildren. He was very good father.

COGGIOLA: They also spoke of their new life in Jordan.

RANA HUSSEIN KAMAL (through translator): This is the beginning of my life and the beginning of my life as a mother that I want my children to have with my arrival in Amman.

COGGIOLA: Raghad and Rana remain there today.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: From what little I know, I think they're doing -- life is normal. They're looking after their children and trying to put their lives together, I think.

COGGIOLA: In a phone interview with al-Arabia Television Network, Raghad argued the U.S. would never have been able to catch her father unless he was sedated.

RAGHAD (through translator): Any respectable person who knew him during his leadership and his resistance and his power would realize that the person on TV was a sedated Saddam Hussein. Of course, there is a reason why they are showing these pictures. Where is the democracy?

COGGIOLA (voice-over): The whereabouts of the third daughter, Hala, is still unconfirmed, though Raghad suggested she could be with her sisters in Jordan.

RAGHAD (through translator): We as the daughters of Saddam Hussein, we ask for a fair and legal trial and not one held by the Iraqi Governing Council because we know who's behind it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COGGIOLA: Other speculation is that Hala is in Yemen or possibly Syria with her mother, Saddam's first wife. Saddam's second wife is rumored to be in Lebanon, possibly living with her son and Saddam's grandson, 22-year-old Ali.

British and Iraqi newspapers have reported that in recent weeks she received up to $5 million from Saddam and spoke with him as recently as a week before his capture. Well, the bottom line, her whereabouts and that of other members of Saddam's family, still unclear. But they are important to the U.S. because they could have additional information about the life of Saddam Hussein.

BLITZER: CNN's Jennifer Coggiola. Thanks very much. Good reporting.

Baker saving billions for Iraq. Why the former secretary of state is meeting with European leaders on Iraq's behalf.

Joe Lieberman lays on Howard Dean. The presidential candidate says he's the Democrat's best hope of defeating George Bush. Hear why he thinks Dean simply can't.

And preparing for the new year high atop Time's Square. Note, this isn't a job for those horrified of heights. We'll get to all of that.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

War crimes testimony. Former NATO commander Wesley Clark says Slobodan Milosevic is the same argumentative, petulant man he faced on a negotiating table during the Balkan wars. Clark, now a Democratic presidential candidate, has wrapped up two days of testimony at the former Yugoslav president's war crimes trial. The proceeding is taking place at The Hague in The Netherlands.

Hostage drama. After a tense standoff, almost a dozen people held by Chechen rebels are now free. The rebels crossed into neighboring Dagestan today killing at least nine border guards and taking villagers hostage. After the hostages were freed, the rebels fled. Some have been tracked down by Russian forces and killed.

Death and destruction. Parts of India are in ruins after a deadly cyclone. Thousands of people were evacuated as the cyclone smashed ashore along India's southeast coast.

Road to the future. Afghanistan is celebrating the opening of a new highway linking Kabul and Kandahar. Most of the $270 million project was funded by the U.S. government. The road was built amid increasing attacks from Taliban insurgents.

Protecting the Vatican. The main boulevard leading into St. Peter's Square is closed overnight, at least for now. The security move comes after word that Italy received a warning from Israel's intelligence agency of possible terrorist attacks on Christian sites around Christmas and Hanukkah.

And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Earlier we asked, the operation to capture Saddam Hussein shared a name with which Hollywood war movie? The answer, Red Dawn.

The 1984 movie tells the story of a fictional war in America when a group of high schoolers defeats the Russian army. Nothing like the movie, close to 600 U.S. Soldiers were involved in "Operation Red Dawn" when Saddam was captured.

The former secretary of state, James Baker, is meeting with success in trying to get European countries help relieve some of Iraq's $120 billion debt. We have two reports.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is in Paris and Stephanie Halazs is Berlin. Lets begin with Jim.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The former secretary of state met a very receptive audience here in France. President Jacques Chirac telling James Baker exactly what he told the Iraqi delegation that was here yesterday, that namely that the French were quite happy to consider reducing Iraqi debt some time next year under the Paris Club rules. Now, whether that's by restructuring the debt, putting off debt payments, or by canceling the debt all together is unclear. Certainly, the Iraqis would prefer the debt be canceled, but not even the U.S. has offered to do that yet.

Jim Bittermann, CNN, Paris.

STEPHANIE HALAZS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. special envoy, James Baker met the German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder for about 45 minutes in Berlin Tuesday. Coming out of the meeting, the German government issued a statement saying that Germany was willing to cooperate. That it was willing to restructure and relieve some of the debt. Germany is owed $5 billion by Iraq. Almost half is interest alone. Now, those are more conciliatory tones than we heard last week when the German government called unacceptable the Pentagon order only those who helped were allowed to get those reconstruction orders.

Stephanie Halasz, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: So, can Baker mission help the Bush administration patch things with the allies?

And what about the strong words with President Bush telling ABC News that Saddam should receive the ultimate penalty. For some thinking inside he West Wing, let's go to White House right now.

The assistant to the president for communications, Dan Bartlett. Dan, thanks very much for joining us.

Let's get to those two questions in just a second. But first, listen to what the Democratic presidential hopeful, Howard Dean, the Democratic presidential hopeful, said yesterday after the capture of Saddam Hussein. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The capture of Saddam is a good thing, which I hope very much will keep our soldiers in Iraq and around the world safer, but the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. Do you agree that America is not safer now with the capture of Saddam Hussein?

DAN BARTLETT, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR COMMUNICATIONS: Well, Wolf, you know that the presidential politics will take its own course. The Democratic primary is spirited right now. There are many candidates saying a lot of things. There's a real battle going on for the heart and soul of the Democratic party. Many of the candidates all having conflicting views on what the direction is for their party. That will play out in its course. President Bush, of course, is focused on the nation's priorities and the nation's priority to make America safer, to make our country more prosperous and to make it a better country. And the steps taken in the war in Iraq and the steps taken by our U.S. troops in Iraq, particularly with the capture of Saddam Hussein has made America much safer.

BLITZER: Tell us how America is safer now that Saddam Hussein has been captured and is being interrogated by U.S. authorities as opposed to when he was simply on the run?

BARTLETT: Well, Wolf, I think it is important to take a step back. The fact of the matter is, Saddam Hussein was a ruthless dictator with weapons of mass destruction, used them against his own country, used them as he invaded another country. He was a threat to the world. He was a threat to the American people. He was a threat to his own people. And the fact that this chapter in Iraqi history is now closed is an important step forward because now, more so than ever, the Iraqi people can realize the future of their own country, which is going to be free and prosperous, which is a security interest of the United States and the entire world.

BLITZER: Do you relish the thought of Howard Dean being the Democratic presidential nominee?

BARTLETT: There's plenty of times for politics later. Well, let them sort out their differences. They've got a family affair going on on the other side. As soon as they do, we'll be fully engaged to talk to whoever the nominee is. And the president as he as said, is more than willing to go to the people and talk about his vision and his future and his record. So there's plenty of time left to debate.

BLITZER: We noticed that the president Saddam Hussein should get and I am quoting now, "The ultimate penalty," in the interview with Diane Sawyer that will air tonight on ABC News. I assume that means he wants Saddam Hussein to be executed?

BARTLETT: The president is talking about a process in which the Iraqi people themselves will play a central role to determine the fate and type of justice that Saddam Hussein will have and what he denied to millions of his own citizens. The president's views, as he said, don't matter in this case. He personally is -- has said that the fact of the matter that he has killed so many of his own people, that he has invaded countries, the atrocities that he has leveled against his own people deserve the ultimate penalty. But That's Up to the Iraqi people to determine. He's confident they will come forward with a process. As he said yesterday, that will withstand international scrutiny. And we look forward to that process and moving forward.

BLITZER: You've spent a lot of time with the president over these past two, three, four days. Give us a little human side. How has he changed, if he's changed at all knowing that Saddam Hussein has been captured?

BARTLETT: Well, Wolf, it's interesting. This presidency has been marked by a lot of big moments. Obviously, 9/11. The fact we went to war in Afghanistan, removed the Taliban. The situation in Iraq and the war there. This was a special moment for the Iraqi people with the capture of Saddam Hussein. It was a special moment for our country because of the pride we obviously have in our U.S. troops and the skill and valor in which they're serving their country is incredibly inspiring and powerful. And that's something that President Bush thinks highly of and is comforted by. He and Mrs. Bush was, obviously, touched by the reaction of the Iraqi people. So, It Is a good day for the Iraqi people and a good day for America.

BLITZER: One final question. If the French, Germans and Russians agree formally to eliminate or reduce the debt from Iraq, will the president reconsider the notion of letting them bid for prime contracts to rebuild Iraq?

BARTLETT: Well, President Bush had a good conversation with Secretary Baker earlier today, in which he debriefed him on the meetings that has taken place in Paris and Berlin. This is a good first step for them to have these meetings. And it's important we continue to work out the details in order to follow through on these important commitments. We'll let those take place first. The president made a decision on contracting based on a simple principle that U.S. taxpayer dollars that are being spent should go to those countries that is are participating in the effort in Iraq. There's more than 60 different countries that are participating in Iraq. That are sacrificing and making enormous efforts on behalf of the Iraqi people. But as we go forward and circumstances change, we will work with these countries. And today was a good first step.

BLITZER: All right. We'll leave it at that. Thanks very much. Dan Bartlett joining us from the north lawn of the White House.

BARTLETT: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: Saddam Hussein's capture is keeping international policy in the spot light. On the campaign trail. And today, the front runner Howard Dean is still catching heat for his anti-war stance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): At Drake University in Des Moines today, John Kerry warns voters to be wary of what he calls unilateralism from President Bush. SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But Saddam's capture also represents a vital chance for the United States to build a coalition to win the peace that we should have built in order to wage the war.

BLITZER: In Manchester, New Hampshire, Joe Lieberman taps his Senate and campaign experience to send the message to Democratic voters. Your candidate cannot be elected if he's a one-trick pony.

SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will take us forward building on the policies of Bill Clinton. Not abandoning them as George W. Bush has and Howard Dean would.

BLITZER: Howard Dean has given his big foreign policy speech. He needs more endorsements and gets one from former Arizona governor and interior secretary, Bruce Babbitt.

BRUCE BABBITT, FORMER INTERIOR SECRETARY: We can start a ball rolling that says we're going to change direction and get this thing moving. It will go through Arizona and we are going to elect Howard Dean as our next president.

BLITZER: Al Sharpton catches endorsement fever at city hall. His new friends, Democratic congressman Jose Serrano and Ed Towns.

REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have more this morning than I've had in my career. So I am not slipping I am growing.

BLITZER: And President Bush signs the American Dream for first- time home down payment act for first time home buyers at Housing and Urban Development.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This administration will strive to promote an ownership society in America. We want more people owning their own home.

BLITZER: And that's our look at 2004 presidential candidates on the trail.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Is Kobe Bryant's accuser making up the story to get attention? The latest in this case.

And then accusations against Michael Jackson have people talking. And they don't necessarily agree. Is race a factor?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This just in to CNN. A Food and Drug Administration advisory committee is recommending the so-called "morning after pill" be made available without, repeat, without a prescription. The pill known as Plan B is a contraceptive. Its makers say when its taken within 72 hours of unprotected sex, it can reduce the risk of pregnancy almost 90 percent. The FDA will make a decision on the committee's recommendation.

The trial of the sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo is now in the hands of a jury. That story stops our justice report. In closing arguments, prosecutors urged the jury not to believe Malvo's insanity defense. Malvo's lawyers maintained he was basically brainwashed by John Muhammad who was convicted last month. There are also developments in the cases against Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson. Here's a quick update.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT SANDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, both sides have filed a flurry of motions in court. In one of the motions, Bryant's lawyers claim Kobe's accuser is making up the story to get attention from her ex-boyfriend.

Bryant's attorneys also want to admit evidence about the accuser's mental state including two reported suicide attempts. As for the prosecution, they want to take measurements of Kobe Bryant's hands. The woman said Bryant put his hands around her throat during the alleged incident.

Prosecutors also want any discussion of the woman's past to be done in private out of the view of reporters. The judge in the Bryant case will hear some of these motions this Friday, December 19. I'm Scott Sander reporting for CNN in Denver.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In the Michael Jackson case, we'll soon hear exactly what Michael Jackson is to be charged with. Sources with the Santa Barbara county district attorney's office telling us he will be formally charged on Thursday.

This comes nearly a month after Michael Jackson was booked on suspicion of multiple counts of child molestation. Jackson has maintained his innocence. He calls the allegations against him a big lie. Jackson will not be in court on Thursday. He remains free on a $3 million bond. His next court appearance is set for January 9 for his arraignment. Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Public opinion on the Jackson case is divided along race lines according to a new CNN/USA Today Gallup poll. It finds 62 percent of whites say the molestation allegations against Jackson are true, while only 26 percent say they're not true. The numbers are basically reversed among African Americans.

A brush with death. A wayward deer hitching a ride on the rails and a naughty Santa. Some rather bizarre incidents have taken place across the United States this week and all of them caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A close call for two Utah highway patrol officers. They had to run for their lives at an accident scene. The officers were at the scene of a rollover accident when one of them looked up to see a van pulling a cargo trailer sliding out of control. After the van slammed into the rolled over pick up truck, the trailer went flying through the air. It narrowly missed the two troopers.

If Santa is missing a reindeer, he might want to check the Washington D.C. Metro system. Check this out. A deer found its way into a Metro station, ran down the escalator and darted down the platform past a waiting train. The animal then jumped on to the tracks and headed off into the woods.

LISA FARBSTEIN, METRO SPOKESWOMAN: We have fondly dubbed him Rudolph the blue line reindeer.

BLITZER: And near Pittsburgh, a Santa Claus gone bad. A man with a long beard and wearing a red fur-lined suit held up a bank yesterday. He pulled a handgun on a teller and demanded money. He stuffed the cash in a red sack and fled the scene. At last word, he was still on the loose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And there's no word how much loot this naughty Santa walked away with. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Those are the results of our web question of the day. Take a look. Not a scientific poll.

And look at this, a lesson to be learned in our picture of the day. It's never too early to plan ahead. A worker scaled the flagpole atop Times Square in New York to install the rigging for the Waterford crystal ball that will be used to usher in the New Year. The ball will be 400 feet above ground level. This job certainly not for anyone afraid of heights. That's not me. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Fate; Demostrations Turn Violen in Support of Saddam in Iraq>