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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Bush Plan To Give Amnesty To Illegal Immigrants; Iraqi Weapons Only On Paper?; Democratic Hopefuls Set Eyes On New Hampshire
Aired January 07, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Off the hook? a sweeping new offer to illegal immigrants.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This program will offer legal status as temporary workers to the millions of undocumented men and women now employed in the United States.
BLITZER: But hot-button issues don't get any hotter than this.
Weapons hunt. Did Iraq have only a paper arsenal?
ADNAN PACHACHI, PRESIDENT, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: They had concept drawings. They had flight computations about a hypothetical missile about, but it existed only on compact disc.
BLITZER: The plan for Saddam. He'll face a trial, but he has to take a number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those close to him will be tried first.
BLITZER: In the hot seat.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It was a lame attempt at humor, and I am very sorry.
BLITZER: Why Hillary Rodham Clinton is apologizing.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, January 7, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We begin with the emotional battle over America's borders, and the president of the United States has just taken sides.
President Bush today said this nation of immigrants should undertake a sweeping overhaul of its immigration system. The key proposal, give legal status to millions of illegals and let them work for the time being under the full protection of the United States law. But critics on the left and on the right say the plan may threaten homeland security, reward lawbreakers and penalize American workers.
It's a bold move by President Bush, but it's also a blatant -- but is it a blatant election year gambit. Let's go straight to our White House correspondent John King -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it didn't take long for this proposal to reinvigorate the very emotional and politically charged debate over immigration and illegal immigration into this country.
As you note, the president putting forward his new plan today. It is his first major policy initiative of this re-election year. Both Republicans and Democrats saying there is at least some political element to this. The president, of course, would very much like to increase the 35 percent of the Hispanic vote he won in campaign 2000. Many Hispanic organizations Represented in the East Room today when Mr. Bush made this announcement.
Here is the key new initiative. The president wants Congress to create a new three-year temporary visa. That would match prospective immigrants not in this country yet with available jobs in this country that Americans are not applying for and accepting.
But the controversial part is this: the 8 to 10 million illegal immigrants already in the United States would also be eligible to come forward and get these new visas, and with them, at least temporary legal status if they prove they have a job in the United States and they are willing to pay a registration fee.
The president says this is accepting -- meeting an economic need, the need for the workers and accepting a demographic reality, that those 8 to 10 million workers already are in the United States. The president says it keeps with America's tradition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: As a nation that values immigration and depends on immigration, we should have immigration laws that work and make us proud. Yet today, we do not. Instead we see many employers turning to the illegal labor market. We see millions of hard-working men and women condemned to fear and insecurity in a massive, undocumented economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now Mr. Bush rejects the notion that he is granting amnesty to those who broke the law and entered this country because he says those who came forward would get these new, three-year temporary visas, perhaps be able to renew them for three more years or even six more years. But then they would be expected to go home unless they qualified for a green card, permanent residency in the meantime.
But, Wolf, conservative critics of this plan say this president who ran promising to restore integrity to the White House is now essentially offering a reward to millions who broke this country's laws.
BLITZER: CNN's John King at the White House. John, thank you very much for that report. As John reported, an estimated 8 to 10 million undocumented or illegal immigrants currently in the United States. According to the U.S. government, Mexico continues to be the leading source of unauthorized immigration with almost 69 percent of the total unauthorized total population, approximately 4.8 million people.
El Salvador is a distant second with 189,000 unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. or 2.7 percent of the population. Guatemala is the third leading source with 144,000 immigrants in the U.S., or 2.1 percent of the immigrant population. Colombia and Honduras round out the top five.
So can the Bush administration make this immigration overhaul work? Will it hurt American citizens? Why is the president stepping into this political minefield right now? Joining us, Margaret Spellings. She's the assistant to the president for domestic policy. Margaret, thanks very much for joining us. Why now?
MARGARET SPELLINGS, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR DOMESTIC POLICY: Well, because the president recognizes that we've had a problem with a broken system. We have as you said 8 to 10 million people who are here illegally. Many of them, millions of them working. And we are a nation of laws. We have to have laws and systems that reflect the reality of our country.
BLITZER: Election year gambit, that's what the critics are suggesting. You're looking for those Hispanic, Latino votes coming up this year?
SPELLINGS: We have been working on this since before 9/11. The president started talking about thin when he and President Fox visited in April 2001 and we have worked on it ever since.
Obviously, after 9/11 our attentions turned to border security as it should have, but now we're reengaged in these discussions on immigration.
BLITZER: A lot of you most serious criticism not coming from Democrats or liberals, conservative Republicans suggesting what the president is doing now is rewarding illegal behavior. They snuck into the United States and now they're about to be rewarded.
SPELLINGS: These are people who are -- 8 million, some millions of people working here, building homes, working in the service sector, working at hospitals and the like. And they are employed here, they are contributing to our communities and economies and so forth.
And the president envisions that they ought to have the opportunity to gain legal status so long as they're employed for a temporary nature. This is a temporary worker program where the people at the end of the term would be expected to return to their homes or alternatively to wait in the cue behind those who try to enter lawfully in the green card line, which is the route to citizenship.
BLITZER: What's the incentive for people it come to the United States to do it legally and wait for years and years and years and maybe never get in as opposed to those who come in illegally and have this opportunity very rapidly to get legal status?
SPELLINGS: The incentive is that the president today as part of his remarks called for workplace security. Border security is something we've been committed to. We are going to reconcile the system, figure out a way to rationalize the system and enforce our workplaces and our borders so that those who come here unlawfully will be expected to return home, will be deported.
BLITZER: The other major criticism that you're hear, that all of us are hearing especially today is what the president is doing is creating a lot of cheap labor out there. And it's going to cost American workers, average middle-class families, a lot of potential jobs because the big companies are going to simply have a cheap labor pool now to go out and get workers as opposed to paying a more robust salary, shall we say?
SPELLINGS: The key part of this proposal is that the employer must first demonstrate they have sought an American worker to fill these jobs. Many of these jobs are jobs that Americans either do not want, cannot fill or that the growth in the economy is not keeping with the pace of the need for these, for the type of worker. So it does not do that.
BLITZER: So you're confident this is not going to cost average Americans jobs because there's still 6 percent unemployment.
SPELLINGS: Our council of economic advisers states that immigrant and illegal or legal immigration has not caused Americans to lose jobs.
BLITZER: President moving forward on a very sensitive issue. This debate only just beginning. It's not yet the law of the land. Margaret Spellings, as you well know, you have a big job ahead of you.
SPELLINGS: Thank you very much.
BLITZER: Thanks for coming on the show.
Critics, of course, are taking aim at the president's immigration plan. We'll hear from one opponent within the president's own party, Congressman Thomas Tancredo of Colorado. He'll be coming up later this hour.
And here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: do you agree with President Bush's immigration proposal.? You can vote right now, go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.
While you're, there I'd love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Send me your comments any time. I'll try to read some of them each day the at end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
Now to Iraq where talk is increasingly turning to the eventual trial of Saddam Hussein. But it now looks like it's Saddam's henchmen who'll get the first taste of the new Iraqi justice system. We'll have more on that in just a moment though.
First, hundreds of Iraqi detainees being held by the coalition authority are about to go free with possibly thousands more to follow. CNN's Satinder Bindra is in the Iraqi capital with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): U.S. administrator Paul Bremer calls it another step towards healing Iraq's wounds.
PAUL BREMER, IRAQI CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR: We are announcing today that the coalition will permit hundreds of currently detained Iraqis to return to their homes and to their families.
BINDRA: Most of Iraq's 12,000 detainees have been arrested on raids like these and have never been charged. The first batch of 500 detainees could be released within days. They are described as low- level associates of insurgents.
The coalition says it will not release those who have, quote, "blood on their hands."
Before they're released, detainees have to sign a statement denouncing violence. They also have to find a guarantor or leader within their community who can take responsibility for their behavior.
BINDRA (voice-over): Many Iraqis were delighted. Of course, it's something good, he says, freedom for all human beings is good. We think this is a good step, he says, but there are many who were arrested wrongly.
Over the past few months, Iraqis like Amal Saleem Haidi have been demonstrating outside detention centers.
Haidi says three of her four sons are in custody.
AMAL SALEEM HAIDI, PROTESTER (through translator): I've told the Americans who have taken my sons that you should slaughter me and let my sons out.
BINDRA: Haidi says she doesn't know why they were held or if they'll be released. The first released detainees will walk out of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison. In Saddam Hussein's time, thousands were imprisoned or killed here. Now the coalition is hoping this former symbol of hate can help bring reconciliation. Satinder Bindra, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: While some Iraqis will be released from prison, many others will remain in custody including former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and other top members of his regime. Earlier today I spoke with the current president of the U.S.-backed governing council, Adnan Pachachi, and I asked him about Saddam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADNAN PACHACHI, PRESIDENT, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: Well, my information is he's being interrogated by the American authorities -- coalition authorities, I should say. And well, of course, there is now the court that has been established -- a special court, which will try him eventually.
BLITZER (voice-over): This is our most recent look at Saddam Hussein. Disheveled, bearded and in coalition custody. But U.S. and Iraqi officials say it won't be our last. Iraqi governing council president Adnan Pachachi says the former Iraqi president will get his day in court, and he'll get something his opponents never got, a fair trial.
PACHACHI: It will have all the due process and the right of appeal. And it will be an open trial with attorneys and lawyers and something that is really unprecedented in Iraq's recent history and quite a contrast from the kinds of courts that Saddam himself established in Iraq to try his enemies.
BLITZER: But when will the trial of Saddam Hussein take place? Pachachi hopes within a year or two.
PACHACHI: Well, of course, we have to gather the evidence, first. And there's a lot to do there because there are mountains of papers of evidence.
And I believe that the other people who have been detained -- you know, those close to him -- will be tried first. I have a feeling that the first people who will be tried are those who are implicated in very, very serious crimes against humanity and against the people of Iraq, like Ali Hassan Al-Majid, who was called Chemical Ali...
BLITZER: And there are others like Iraq's former deputy prime minister.
PACHACHI: About Tariq Aziz, I don't know when and if his trial will be held soon after that.
BLITZER: While the U.S., its allies and the Iraqi governing council prepare for the upcoming trials, they'll also be trying to prepare Iraq for self-government. Pachachi says that, too, will mark a sharp break from the days of Saddam Hussein.
PACHACHI: We have at the end of this process, a government that derives its legitimacy from the free desire of the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The United States says another mass grave containing the remains of 800 Iraqis has been discovered near Baghdad. It's the latest of 670 mass grave sites found across Iraq since the U.S. invasion toppled Saddam Hussein.
U.S. officials say the newest one was found 30 miles south of Baghdad. They say the victims are believed to be from an uprising of Shia Iraqis in 1991.
Back home from war in Iraq. About 200 members of the 101st Airborne division reunited with families and friends today. The troops flew into their home base of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, after almost a year in Iraq. 400 more of the so-called Screaming Eagles are due to arrive this week.
Search for a no-show. Why one name on a canceled Air France flight is in the security spotlight.
F-16 escort. New details about military planes escorting passenger flights since code orange went into effect.
And Dean bashing. A new ad goes after the current Democratic front-runner. Sushi eaters and latte drinkers all in about 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The holidays are over, but the nation's terror alert level remains at orange or high. European officials right now are searching for a man who was a no-show on an Air France flight scheduled to fly to Los Angeles Christmas Eve, but was canceled amid security fears.
And U.S. military jets are still escorting some commercial airliners. We have two reports on this story. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena and Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. We begin with Kelli -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: U.S. and French officials tell CNN they are looking for a man who did not show up for that Christmas Eve Air France flight. Now there were several individuals who did not show up, and investigators have been tracking them down one by one to make sure that none of them have any links to terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: With respect to airline flights, we had some information over the holiday period, with respect to certain individuals with names that hit our database. A lot of these names have not only duplicates, triplicates, but many similar names. And it takes a while to sort through this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Investigators say the man they are looking for is the only no-show they haven't been able to track down. His name is Abdul Hay but officials say that they do not know much more about him. Now he caused some concern because his name is similar to the name of an Afghan with close ties to the Taliban who was in U.S. custody in Kandahar and escaped.
U.S. officials say that they have concluded that the two men are not one and the same, although they will not say exactly how they reached that conclusion. Now there's no evidence that this individual poses any threat, but investigators are hoping to find him soon to help button up this investigation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sure they would like to find him very, very quickly. Thank you very much, Kelli, for that.
Report. Now the latest on U.S. fighter jets being scrambled to escort passenger planes. Here's CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr -Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, military fighter jets have now escorted commercial flights into the United States about 15 times since code orange went into effect just before Christmas.
And although the alert will be ratcheted back at some point, we continue to learn new details about just how prepared the U.S. military has been in this entire mission.
Now just after December 21, when code orange took effect, as you would expect, U.S. military pilots participating in the escort mission were called in. They reviewed all of their training, their procedures, their tactics, especially how they are called into action to conduct a military escort when the FAA says there may be trouble and they would like military assistance, and they also reviewed procedures for the unthinkable, if there was a requirement to shoot down a commercial plane over the United States.
That, of course, would directly involve President Bush, and that did not happen. The result of this is they decided all of their training, all of their procedures were accurate, were good, and they kept them all in place.
Now one other detail has emerged about just how prepared the U.S. military has been. Administration sources tell CNN that over the last several days, some flights from Paris to Los Angeles had their midair flight paths diverted when they were over Las Vegas. In fact, before they approached the city of Las Vegas, basically, they were diverted away from flying directly over that city because of the concerns about the potential for a terrorist attack against Las Vegas.
Now, all of this, of course, occurring while the planes were at a relatively high altitude. Those commercial flights flying at somewhere around 40,000 feet. So the diversion of those flight paths was never apparent to the passengers on board -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara Starr with some more important information at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you very much for that.
Anti-Dean -- the Democratic front-runner is told to take a hike. Hear the new ad hitting the airwaves today.
Policy push. How the president's plan to give illegal immigrants status as temporary workers might affect you. I'll talk live with the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson. And no laughing matter -- the joke by Hillary Rodham Clinton that now has the senator apologizing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: After devoting their attention to Iowa and its upcoming caucuses, the Democratic candidates for president are starting to pay more attention to another key state.
Today the focus is on the nation's first presidential primary, less than three weeks from now.
Iowa is so yesterday. The place to be today or so it seems is New Hampshire and that's where John Kerry is delivering a speech on worker's rights, taking aim at the Bush administration's record on corporate responsibility.
Polls indicating he's now tied with Kerry for second spot in New Hampshire. Wesley Clark continues hitting the state hard. Meeting with voters today, he holds his "Conversations with Clark."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Help charity, help your fellow human being. Help lift people up. There's only one political party in America that really lives that faith, and that's our party, the Democratic party, and that's why I'm proud to be a Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Out to distinguish himself as the clearest alternative to Howard Dean, Joe Lieberman talked domestic policy in a speech today in Nashua. He spends the rest of the day campaigning throughout the state with wife Hadasa.
She hasn't spent as much time in the granite state as some of the others, but Carol Moseley Braun is making up for it today as she addressed the New Hampshire Community Action Association.
Across the nation in Iowa and campaigning more and more as an outsider, John Edwards spoke in Des Moines on his plan to limit lobbyists' influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to end the stranglehold that these lobbyists and these special interests have on your democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And in Musketeen, Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You want to be sure you don't hit the ceiling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Howard Dean fed and entertained hungry supporters at a Caucus for Change pancake breakfast. He heads back to Vermont later today.
Richard Gephardt rallied with steel workers in South Carolina today only to head back to Iowa for an event later tonight.
And before talking immigration, President Bush, gearing up for the 2004 campaign, attended a Republican National Committee luncheon earlier today. And that's our look at the 2004 presidential candidates on the trail.
What do sushi lovers, Volvo drivers and Americans who read the "New York Times" have in common? They're all part of the mix in a new attack ad that takes aim at Democratic presidential front-runner Howard Dean. This story from Howard Kurtz with "CNN's Reliable Sources."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dick Gephardt, Joe Lieberman, and Howard Dean all rolled out new ads this week in the battle for Iowa and New Hampshire. But none of them are taking off the gloves just yet. These spots are basically political patty-cake. The punchiest Iowa ad, in fact, is from an independent group, the Conservative Club for Growth, which mocks the Democratic front runner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Howard Dean should take his tax- hiking, government- expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo- driving, "New York Times"-reading...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left-wing freak show back to Vermont where it belongs.
KURTZ: Pretty rough stuff going negative on latte lovers but Club for Growth president Steve Moore says his $100,000 ad bite is designed to hurt Dean in the general election since he thinks the former Vermont governor has the nomination sewn up.
STEPHEN MOORE, PRESIDENT, CLUB FOR GROWTH: I would put pretty high odds at this point that Howard Dean is going to be the nominee.
KURTZ: The candidates are replaying their greatest hits and targeting certain voting blocs. Dean is the doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As governor, he provided health care coverage for nearly every child in his state and a prescription drug benefits for seniors.
KURTZ: Senior citizens, you may recall, vote in large numbers. Dean also promises...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To provide health insurance for every American.
KURTZ: Well, not quite. The Dean plan would cover only 30 million of the 45 million uninsured.
Gephardt is Mr. "Tough on Trade," pitching himself to Iowa union members and farmers hurt by global competition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One candidate for president voted against NAFTA and the China trade deal. Dick Gephardt.
REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must raise global standards so that everyone everywhere does better.
KURTZ: Lieberman is the middle-of-the-road centrist seeking middle class votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the only one who's proposed a new cut in tax rates for the middle class not tax increases. The only one fighting for paid family and medical leave. He's the only one who's consistently taking a clear stand against terrorism and tyranny.
Kurtz: The only one opposed to terrorism? Not quite. But even this Lieberman swipe by Dean's temperament in a New Hampshire ad...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will take more than extreme anger...
KURTZ: Doesn't mention Howard Dean's name.
Why does the Club for Growth pummel Dean while his rivals are running softer ads. Simple. Candidates who attack often trigger a backlash because voters see then as too negative. But if the Dean steamroller keeps moving at full speed, his opponents may risk throwing some sharper tacks beneath his tires. This is Howard Kurtz of "CNN's Reliable Sources."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We're getting some very disturbing information coming in to CNN right now. A breaking story from Baghdad. Let's go right to Baghdad. CNN's Ram Ramgopal is on the phone with us. Ram, tell us what you are hearing?
RAM RAMGOPAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What I'm hearing at this point is basically by way of a news release that 35 soldiers assigned to one particular unit were wounded when six mortar rounds impacted their base which is just west of Baghdad, according to this news release which is coming from the combined joint task force here in Baghdad.
They say that this unit was a camp, a forward area, really and they are telling us the wounded soldiers were given first and some have also been evacuated from the site for further medical treatment.
Details at this point are sketchy but this happened just a short time ago. About five hours ago, actually, this evening on Wednesday. Back to you. BLITZER: Ram Ramgopal, 35 U.S. soldiers wounded in one attack, that seems like a pretty large number. Do you remember incidents of that magnitude since the end of major combat, when 35 soldiers injured, wounded in one attack?
RAMGOPAL: That is indeed correct.
We have not heard anything of this scale, certainly in terms in numbers, as you rightly point out. But, at the same time, we're not quite sure how major these injuries are at this stage, at least from what we're seeing in the press release. We've been working the phones, calling a few people. They don't have any details on the type of injuries sustained.
But, at the same time, they do talk about six mortar rounds being fired at this logistical base, which would make it a fairly significant attack -- back to you.
BLITZER: And one question, Ram. I take it this base was outside that so-called Green Zone, the most secure part of the Iraqi capital. Is that right?
RAMGOPAL: That is indeed correct.
From our understanding, this is in a place close to Balad, which is northwest of the capital here. And it's certainly outside the city. At this point, I'm just trying to get the information that I'm seeing in front of me, there's very sketchy details at this point. It could well be that this was a region which is not really in the city, indeed.
BLITZER: All right, Ram Ramgopal reporting for us on the phone from Baghdad. He'll get some more information.
The headline, though, 35 American soldiers wounded in an attack. Six mortar rounds land at a base just outside of Baghdad. We'll get some more information, go back there as soon as we get it.
Meanwhile, the hunt continues, but many are wondering if Iraq's weapons of mass destruction ever existed. How solid was the U.S. intelligence? New details emerging right now.
Was she or wasn't she? Rumors swirl that Princess Diana may have been pregnant when she died. Today, a coroner speaks out.
A megafraud? New information on the woman who claimed the winning ticket in Ohio's lottery was hers. Could she face charges?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Immigration overhaul, a move to give millions of illegal immigrants legal working status. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
Evangelist Billy Graham is hospitalized in Florida. He was in Jacksonville for a checkup when he fell and broke his hip. The 85- year-old underwent surgery for a partial replacement last night. He's said to be doing well and is expected to recover fully.
A former royal coroner tells "The Times of London," Princess Diana was not pregnant when she died. John Burton was one of two people to examine the body after her 1997 death in a Paris car crash. Rumors have swirled ever since that Diana was ordered killed because she was carrying boyfriend Dodi Fayed's child. Not true.
An Ohio woman who claimed she bought, but lost a lottery ticket worth $162 million has a criminal record. Elecia Battle acknowledges being charged with credit card fraud and assault, but says she was never convicted. She's suing to stop payment of the jackpot to another woman who lottery officials declared the winner.
As we reported earlier, President Bush has proposed a revision of U.S. immigration laws that would allow eight million illegal immigrants, perhaps as many as 10 million, to obtain legal status as temporary workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Out of common sense and fairness, our laws should allow willing workers to enter our country and fill jobs that Americans are not filling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Immigration is an issue that has long divided the American public and the battle lines are not necessarily being drawn along political lines.
President Bush's plan is drawing serious opposition from some fellow Republicans, including U.S. Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado.
Congressman Tancredo is joining us now live from Denver.
Congressman, why do you propose what the president has proposed?
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: Because it's lousy public policy. That's why. It's lousy public policy.
You should never, ever, ever reward people for breaking the law. The president says that the law is not working. Well, you know, I got to tell you, Mr. President, it's not the law that's the problem. It's the lack of enforcement. It's the fact that this administration and prior administrations -- it doesn't matter how far back you want to go -- has decided that not enforcing the law was preferable, because they wanted cheap labor.
Nothing has changed. And to suggest that the law is the problem is disingenuous.
BLITZER: But the argument, though, as you well know, Congressman, is that these people are already here. They're working illegally. They're making money. They're not paying taxes. At least if you get a system in place whereby they could start paying taxes, that's going to benefit the overall economy, as well as the taxpayers in general.
TANCREDO: Let me tell you what will happen to the economy and to the taxpayer in general and to the American worker, if we were really to do something like this.
The first thing that would happen is that employers would start publishing jobs, publicizing jobs availability for about two or three dollars less an hour than they're presently paying, right? They won't get takers. Then they'll go, of course, to this pool of workers and start importing even more illegal -- or more -- in that case, they'll be legal -- but more workers into the United States.
This does nothing for the American worker. It certainly does nothing for our standard of living. It is, in fact, dangerous from every single aspect. It's bad public policy. And it's also, by the way, lousy politics, as far as I'm concerned.
BLITZER: Well, the president, as you also know, made a point of saying this is going to help national security, homeland security, in particular, because now there's going to be documentation of all of these people, or at least many of them, and at least homeland security officials will have a sense who these people are, where they're coming from. They'll be able to watch them.
TANCREDO: Yes.
Well, frankly, most of the terrorists that I think are in this country are probably not waiting to sign up in any sort of guest worker program. The reality, of course, is that the borders are porous. That's the national security issue, the fact that we are allowing people to come into this country without our knowledge. Last year, we stopped one million people at the border.
We estimate between three and five -- for every single person that we stopped and interdicted, three to five get past us. So that means up to five million people came into the country last year illegally that we don't know about. And I guarantee you, not all of them came to take a job at Kmart or at Wal-Mart. A lot of those people that came into this country came to do something very bad.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Congressman, we only have a few seconds left. So why is the president, who is a fellow Republican, a good conservative, why do you believe he's doing this?
TANCREDO: I believe he's doing it for two reasons.
One, it is pandering to a constituency he thinks we do not have and that he does not have. And that's, of course, Hispanics. He's wrong. He's wrong. We've got 30 to 35 percent of Hispanics support our position on this issue. And he's also wrong if he thinks it's just going play well even in the business community.
Most businesses will say, you know what? It's easier for me to hire people who are here illegally than to go through this hassle. So I think that, simply, Karl Rove should go back to the drawing board on this one.
BLITZER: All right, Congressman Thomas Tancredo of Colorado, outspoken, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.
TANCREDO: You're welcome.
BLITZER: Let's get a different perspective now.
Joining us, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. He's a Democrat from a border state. He has, of course, a keen interest in the immigration problem. But his interests, of course, go well beyond America's borders. As a globe-trotting congressman and United Nations ambassador, he helped negotiate the release of prisoners in Iraq, North Korea and Sudan. He's also a former, as I said, ambassador to the U.N., a former energy secretary.
Ambassador Richardson, among other things, you are also Hispanic. What do you make of the arguments, the point that Congressman Tancredo made, that this is simply an election-year gambit by the president to get votes?
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Well, I disagree with the substance of the congressman's I think very extreme views.
America is a nation of immigrants. And I think the president had an opportunity to present a plan that legalizes status of approximately eight million undocumented workers that are working lawfully, that -- their kids are in schools. And the president, regrettably, missed an opportunity.
BLITZER: You would have wanted the president to go further?
RICHARDSON: Yes, not citizenship, but some kind of legal status, a green card for those that are here lawfully. Now...
BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt for you a second, Mr. Governor.
Why, why should these people, as Congressman Tancredo says, be rewarded for illegal activity?
RICHARDSON: Well, many of them came here. They're working. They're paying taxes. Many are, Wolf.
There are a lot of kids on the border, a lot of states with kids, immigrant kids. They're going to school. They're getting health care. We, as border governors, wanted some way to give them legal status -- again, not full citizenship -- that has to be earned -- that involves a cooperation between the state and the federal government. What we've done -- I think what the president has done, although it's a little bit of a step forward is given temporary worker status for three years, without any kind of light at the end of the tunnel.
BLITZER: They can get a renewal for another three years.
RICHARDSON: Yes.
BLITZER: So, six years, that's a good start for these people, don't you think?
RICHARDSON: Well, it's a very mild start. I think what we hoped, many Hispanic groups, border governors, when President Fox and President Bush met three years ago, they agreed that they would work towards a legalization program in about two to three years.
President Bush, regrettably, has backed off of that. I think it's for political reasons, concerned about the Republican right that doesn't want anyone, as I think Congressman Tancredo...
BLITZER: It's already angering them, as you well see.
(CROSSTALK)
RICHARDSON: And the problem is that those that want to be with the president on this, that wanted something substantial, we're a little disappointed.
Now, it's a mild step forward. But, at the same time, it is not a legalized status that I think many of these individuals deserve. Many right now are going to be eventually part of the American mainstream. They probably will become citizens. But then President Fox in Mexico probably will be disappointed. I hope not.
BLITZER: What do you say that this is simply going to provide a lot of cheap labor out there and that average American workers are going to suffer with this big new pool that's going to be made available?
RICHARDSON: Well, that is a concern of mine.
It's also a concern of mine that many of these undocumented workers, temporary workers, won't have the full worker rights that they deserve. Any worker should have full rights. So, I'm a little disappointed in the president's proposal, but I'm not throwing all kinds of negatives, like the congressman did. I just wish that it would be more.
Now, the hope is that this proposal of the president is a starting point, that the president will realize that, for whatever reason -- humanitarian, political, social policy -- that he go one step further. And that is a legalized status for these individuals, not citizenship, but a legalized status, a green card, so they can stay here and be part of the American mainstream.
BLITZER: But, grudgingly, you have got to give them some credit for taking this step.
RICHARDSON: Yes, a slight bit of credit. But he had an opportunity, I think, politically, too, to go substantially further. And it would have been good social policy and good politics for him. Right now, I think, at best, it's a wash.
BLITZER: All right, we'll see. Governor, thanks, as usual, for joining us.
RICHARDSON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Updating our breaking news story, 35 American soldiers injured in a mortar attack just outside Baghdad. We'll have a live report from the Iraqi capital. That's coming up.
Plus this: Iraq's WMDs, weapons of mass destruction. They are still MIA. Will Saddam Hussein's WMD ever be found? I'll speak with a journalist investigating all the claims.
And a Hillary Clinton hiccup? The New York senator taking heat after a joke, a so-called joke, she made at a fund-raiser.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Thirty-five United States soldiers wounded in a mortar attack just outside Baghdad.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is the in Iraqi capital. He is joining us live.
What are you hearing about this attack, Karl?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, details still a little bit sketchy, a simple five-line communique from the military.
What they are telling us is, more or less an hour and a half after sundown, a barrage of six mortars slams into a logistics base near the town of Balad, just west of Baghdad; 35 American soldiers have been wounded. We understand they received emergency medical treatment on the spot and they've now been evacuated for hospital treatment.
Balad, as I say, west of Baghdad, within the Sunni Triangle, the area that most anti-coalition insurgent activity has been taking place. It's been somewhat quiet there, Wolf, in the last few days, but certainly the insurgency back with a bang the , coinciding, in fact, with announcements by Ambassador Paul Bremer, the coalition administrator, that he's ready to make gestures of reconciliation and release some of those in Baghdad who have been detained on suspicion of assisting the insurgency.
BLITZER: CNN's Karl Penhaul, monitoring this story for us, we'll get back to you as soon as you get some more information, 35 American soldiers wounded.
We do not -- repeat, do not know the extent of those injuries. We're trying to find out.
There's also a new development in the long-running search for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. A very, very detailed article in today's "Washington Post" says that, when the war started, Iraq did not have any -- repeat, did not have any nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.
Earlier, I spoke with the reporter who wrote "The Washington Post" article, Barton Gellman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Bart Gellman, terrific reporting once again.
Let's go through the bottom-line details. As far as Iraq's nuclear weapons program, what have they found out so far?
BARTON GELLMAN, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, nuclear turns out to be the easiest. It was on the ground. It was flattened by 1996 and really did not rebuild itself. It was a mess.
BLITZER: So, basically, as far as everything you've discovered, there was no nuclear -- significant nuclear program in Iraq at all? Is that what you concluded?
GELLMAN: There was certainly no significant nuclear weapons program. There was barely anything, if anything, that you could say was nuclear weapons basic research. The nearest thing they came was a rail gun that was about air defense.
BLITZER: What about biological weapons?
GELLMAN: The most interesting thing to me that I learned is what they were looking for, not what they found. They found almost nothing. They found no resumption of anthrax and other previous programs.
What they also did not find was an effort to genetically engineer a new form of life, a new generation of pathogens that would be much more dangerous than anything existing in nature. We didn't know that the U.S. government thought that was so significant a risk. They were looking for a pox virus that would have been crossed with cobra venom. And that did not exist.
BLITZER: We know the Iraqis used chemical weapons against Kurds in the late '80s, against Iranians. What did you find out about mustard gas, other chemical weapons that they supposedly had in significant quantities?
GELLMAN: Well, the interesting thing is that David Kay of the Iraq Survey Group has pretty much dropped the chemical investigation as of October.
The survey group differs fundamentally with the CIA's national estimate from the year before, which said that Iraq had resumed production and had learned how to stabilize its most dangerous nerve agent, V.X. The investigators have found a chemical industry that was no longer capable of manufacturing chemical weapons in any quantity and no sign that they did so at all.
BLITZER: What about ballistic missiles, beyond those that were allowed, the short-range ballistic missiles? What did they have, what kind of capability, in terms of medium- or long-range missiles?
GELLMAN: Well, the most interesting thing that I turned up was that there was a whole new generation or a whole new family of missiles on the drawing board in Iraq. And this was a secret from the inspectors.
These were literally on the drawing board or the 21st century equivalent of it. It was CAD/CAM software on a computer. They had concept drawings. They had flight computations about a hypothetical missile that could have reached Tel Aviv and Tehran and Istanbul. But it existed only on compact disc. It was not an actual missile. And the experts I have talked -- and I spend a lot of time on this -- estimate it would have taken six years or longer for Iraq to actually make such a missile.
BLITZER: Bart Gellman of "The Washington Post," thanks for your excellent reporting. Thanks for joining us.
GELLMAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: And if our viewers want more information, they can of course read your long article. They can go "The Washington Post" Web site.
Bart, thanks again.
GELLMAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In response to Barton Gellman's 6,000-word article, a spokesman says the hunt for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction continues.
Asking for forgiveness:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It was a lame attempt at humor, and I am very sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A joke gone bad. Now the former first lady is in hot water. Will an apology satisfy Senator Clinton's critics?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Did you hear the one about Hillary Clinton and Mahatma Gandhi? It's no joke, but rather a case of foot in mouth for the New York senator and former first lady.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): She often comes off as smooth as her husband, rarely, if ever, caught fumbling or off guard, especially when cameras are near, all the more reason this joke drew a collective whoa.
CLINTON: I love this quote. It's from Mahatma Gandhi. He ran a gas station down in Saint Louis for a couple of years. Mr. Gandhi, you still go to the gas station? A lot of wisdom comes out of that gas station.
BLITZER: In virtually the same breath, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton called Gandhi one of the great leaders of the 20th century, then quoted him. This was at an event Saturday benefiting Missouri senatorial candidate Nancy Farmer.
In Albuquerque Monday, a seemingly scripted effort at damage control.
CLINTON: Well, it was a lame attempt at humor. And I am very sorry that it might have been interpreted in a way that would cause distress to anyone. I have the highest regard for Mahatma Gandhi and have been a longtime admirer of his life and his teachings.
BLITZER: Stereotypes of Indian immigrants have been used before as a comedic crutch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIMPSONS")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Shall I take you to the pilot? You see, because that is your son.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I heard you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Yes, because someone saved your life tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Has the Indian community had enough? Reaction to Hillary Clinton ranges from outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think it's insulting, because Gandhi is the father of India. He's the national leader. People worship him. It's just like saying Martin Luther or George Washington cleaning toilet in India.
BLITZER: To some context, on the support she and her husband have shown for Gandhi's legacy and message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gandhi himself made gaffes. And he called them Himalayan blunders. In 1995, I directed a program which was held by the Indian Embassy at Kennedy Center in Washington for Gandhi's 125th birth anniversary. And Mrs. Clinton was the chief invited speaker and prepared a beautiful presentation.
BLITZER: Analysts say Hillary Clinton won't likely suffer politically, although the Indian community has a large voting-age population in New York.
But what of the packaging, the image of the cool cucumber who never missteps?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: It means even a careful, scripted, calculating person can sometimes make mistakes. She's human. Lots of people make mistakes.
BLITZER: And how would the spiritual founder of modern India himself react?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would have startled him, no doubt. I'm sure he would have eagerly accepted her apology.
BLITZER: And, again, a Clinton would defy political gravity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we'll have the results of our "Web Question of the Day." That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here are the results of our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look. You see it right there.Remember, this is not -- repeat, not -- a scientific poll.
In our picture of the day, a bizarre rescue at a Piggly Wiggly in Wisconsin. A locksmith had to be called the supermarket to get a 7- year-old boy out of a stuffed animal machine. The child crawled into the machine through the shoot where the toys come out while his father was talking on the phone. What a picture.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
END
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Weapons Only On Paper?; Democratic Hopefuls Set Eyes On New Hampshire>
Aired January 7, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Off the hook? a sweeping new offer to illegal immigrants.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This program will offer legal status as temporary workers to the millions of undocumented men and women now employed in the United States.
BLITZER: But hot-button issues don't get any hotter than this.
Weapons hunt. Did Iraq have only a paper arsenal?
ADNAN PACHACHI, PRESIDENT, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: They had concept drawings. They had flight computations about a hypothetical missile about, but it existed only on compact disc.
BLITZER: The plan for Saddam. He'll face a trial, but he has to take a number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those close to him will be tried first.
BLITZER: In the hot seat.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It was a lame attempt at humor, and I am very sorry.
BLITZER: Why Hillary Rodham Clinton is apologizing.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, January 7, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We begin with the emotional battle over America's borders, and the president of the United States has just taken sides.
President Bush today said this nation of immigrants should undertake a sweeping overhaul of its immigration system. The key proposal, give legal status to millions of illegals and let them work for the time being under the full protection of the United States law. But critics on the left and on the right say the plan may threaten homeland security, reward lawbreakers and penalize American workers.
It's a bold move by President Bush, but it's also a blatant -- but is it a blatant election year gambit. Let's go straight to our White House correspondent John King -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it didn't take long for this proposal to reinvigorate the very emotional and politically charged debate over immigration and illegal immigration into this country.
As you note, the president putting forward his new plan today. It is his first major policy initiative of this re-election year. Both Republicans and Democrats saying there is at least some political element to this. The president, of course, would very much like to increase the 35 percent of the Hispanic vote he won in campaign 2000. Many Hispanic organizations Represented in the East Room today when Mr. Bush made this announcement.
Here is the key new initiative. The president wants Congress to create a new three-year temporary visa. That would match prospective immigrants not in this country yet with available jobs in this country that Americans are not applying for and accepting.
But the controversial part is this: the 8 to 10 million illegal immigrants already in the United States would also be eligible to come forward and get these new visas, and with them, at least temporary legal status if they prove they have a job in the United States and they are willing to pay a registration fee.
The president says this is accepting -- meeting an economic need, the need for the workers and accepting a demographic reality, that those 8 to 10 million workers already are in the United States. The president says it keeps with America's tradition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: As a nation that values immigration and depends on immigration, we should have immigration laws that work and make us proud. Yet today, we do not. Instead we see many employers turning to the illegal labor market. We see millions of hard-working men and women condemned to fear and insecurity in a massive, undocumented economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now Mr. Bush rejects the notion that he is granting amnesty to those who broke the law and entered this country because he says those who came forward would get these new, three-year temporary visas, perhaps be able to renew them for three more years or even six more years. But then they would be expected to go home unless they qualified for a green card, permanent residency in the meantime.
But, Wolf, conservative critics of this plan say this president who ran promising to restore integrity to the White House is now essentially offering a reward to millions who broke this country's laws.
BLITZER: CNN's John King at the White House. John, thank you very much for that report. As John reported, an estimated 8 to 10 million undocumented or illegal immigrants currently in the United States. According to the U.S. government, Mexico continues to be the leading source of unauthorized immigration with almost 69 percent of the total unauthorized total population, approximately 4.8 million people.
El Salvador is a distant second with 189,000 unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. or 2.7 percent of the population. Guatemala is the third leading source with 144,000 immigrants in the U.S., or 2.1 percent of the immigrant population. Colombia and Honduras round out the top five.
So can the Bush administration make this immigration overhaul work? Will it hurt American citizens? Why is the president stepping into this political minefield right now? Joining us, Margaret Spellings. She's the assistant to the president for domestic policy. Margaret, thanks very much for joining us. Why now?
MARGARET SPELLINGS, ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR DOMESTIC POLICY: Well, because the president recognizes that we've had a problem with a broken system. We have as you said 8 to 10 million people who are here illegally. Many of them, millions of them working. And we are a nation of laws. We have to have laws and systems that reflect the reality of our country.
BLITZER: Election year gambit, that's what the critics are suggesting. You're looking for those Hispanic, Latino votes coming up this year?
SPELLINGS: We have been working on this since before 9/11. The president started talking about thin when he and President Fox visited in April 2001 and we have worked on it ever since.
Obviously, after 9/11 our attentions turned to border security as it should have, but now we're reengaged in these discussions on immigration.
BLITZER: A lot of you most serious criticism not coming from Democrats or liberals, conservative Republicans suggesting what the president is doing now is rewarding illegal behavior. They snuck into the United States and now they're about to be rewarded.
SPELLINGS: These are people who are -- 8 million, some millions of people working here, building homes, working in the service sector, working at hospitals and the like. And they are employed here, they are contributing to our communities and economies and so forth.
And the president envisions that they ought to have the opportunity to gain legal status so long as they're employed for a temporary nature. This is a temporary worker program where the people at the end of the term would be expected to return to their homes or alternatively to wait in the cue behind those who try to enter lawfully in the green card line, which is the route to citizenship.
BLITZER: What's the incentive for people it come to the United States to do it legally and wait for years and years and years and maybe never get in as opposed to those who come in illegally and have this opportunity very rapidly to get legal status?
SPELLINGS: The incentive is that the president today as part of his remarks called for workplace security. Border security is something we've been committed to. We are going to reconcile the system, figure out a way to rationalize the system and enforce our workplaces and our borders so that those who come here unlawfully will be expected to return home, will be deported.
BLITZER: The other major criticism that you're hear, that all of us are hearing especially today is what the president is doing is creating a lot of cheap labor out there. And it's going to cost American workers, average middle-class families, a lot of potential jobs because the big companies are going to simply have a cheap labor pool now to go out and get workers as opposed to paying a more robust salary, shall we say?
SPELLINGS: The key part of this proposal is that the employer must first demonstrate they have sought an American worker to fill these jobs. Many of these jobs are jobs that Americans either do not want, cannot fill or that the growth in the economy is not keeping with the pace of the need for these, for the type of worker. So it does not do that.
BLITZER: So you're confident this is not going to cost average Americans jobs because there's still 6 percent unemployment.
SPELLINGS: Our council of economic advisers states that immigrant and illegal or legal immigration has not caused Americans to lose jobs.
BLITZER: President moving forward on a very sensitive issue. This debate only just beginning. It's not yet the law of the land. Margaret Spellings, as you well know, you have a big job ahead of you.
SPELLINGS: Thank you very much.
BLITZER: Thanks for coming on the show.
Critics, of course, are taking aim at the president's immigration plan. We'll hear from one opponent within the president's own party, Congressman Thomas Tancredo of Colorado. He'll be coming up later this hour.
And here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: do you agree with President Bush's immigration proposal.? You can vote right now, go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.
While you're, there I'd love to hear directly from you, our viewers. Send me your comments any time. I'll try to read some of them each day the at end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.
Now to Iraq where talk is increasingly turning to the eventual trial of Saddam Hussein. But it now looks like it's Saddam's henchmen who'll get the first taste of the new Iraqi justice system. We'll have more on that in just a moment though.
First, hundreds of Iraqi detainees being held by the coalition authority are about to go free with possibly thousands more to follow. CNN's Satinder Bindra is in the Iraqi capital with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (VOICE-OVER): U.S. administrator Paul Bremer calls it another step towards healing Iraq's wounds.
PAUL BREMER, IRAQI CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR: We are announcing today that the coalition will permit hundreds of currently detained Iraqis to return to their homes and to their families.
BINDRA: Most of Iraq's 12,000 detainees have been arrested on raids like these and have never been charged. The first batch of 500 detainees could be released within days. They are described as low- level associates of insurgents.
The coalition says it will not release those who have, quote, "blood on their hands."
Before they're released, detainees have to sign a statement denouncing violence. They also have to find a guarantor or leader within their community who can take responsibility for their behavior.
BINDRA (voice-over): Many Iraqis were delighted. Of course, it's something good, he says, freedom for all human beings is good. We think this is a good step, he says, but there are many who were arrested wrongly.
Over the past few months, Iraqis like Amal Saleem Haidi have been demonstrating outside detention centers.
Haidi says three of her four sons are in custody.
AMAL SALEEM HAIDI, PROTESTER (through translator): I've told the Americans who have taken my sons that you should slaughter me and let my sons out.
BINDRA: Haidi says she doesn't know why they were held or if they'll be released. The first released detainees will walk out of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison. In Saddam Hussein's time, thousands were imprisoned or killed here. Now the coalition is hoping this former symbol of hate can help bring reconciliation. Satinder Bindra, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: While some Iraqis will be released from prison, many others will remain in custody including former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and other top members of his regime. Earlier today I spoke with the current president of the U.S.-backed governing council, Adnan Pachachi, and I asked him about Saddam.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ADNAN PACHACHI, PRESIDENT, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: Well, my information is he's being interrogated by the American authorities -- coalition authorities, I should say. And well, of course, there is now the court that has been established -- a special court, which will try him eventually.
BLITZER (voice-over): This is our most recent look at Saddam Hussein. Disheveled, bearded and in coalition custody. But U.S. and Iraqi officials say it won't be our last. Iraqi governing council president Adnan Pachachi says the former Iraqi president will get his day in court, and he'll get something his opponents never got, a fair trial.
PACHACHI: It will have all the due process and the right of appeal. And it will be an open trial with attorneys and lawyers and something that is really unprecedented in Iraq's recent history and quite a contrast from the kinds of courts that Saddam himself established in Iraq to try his enemies.
BLITZER: But when will the trial of Saddam Hussein take place? Pachachi hopes within a year or two.
PACHACHI: Well, of course, we have to gather the evidence, first. And there's a lot to do there because there are mountains of papers of evidence.
And I believe that the other people who have been detained -- you know, those close to him -- will be tried first. I have a feeling that the first people who will be tried are those who are implicated in very, very serious crimes against humanity and against the people of Iraq, like Ali Hassan Al-Majid, who was called Chemical Ali...
BLITZER: And there are others like Iraq's former deputy prime minister.
PACHACHI: About Tariq Aziz, I don't know when and if his trial will be held soon after that.
BLITZER: While the U.S., its allies and the Iraqi governing council prepare for the upcoming trials, they'll also be trying to prepare Iraq for self-government. Pachachi says that, too, will mark a sharp break from the days of Saddam Hussein.
PACHACHI: We have at the end of this process, a government that derives its legitimacy from the free desire of the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The United States says another mass grave containing the remains of 800 Iraqis has been discovered near Baghdad. It's the latest of 670 mass grave sites found across Iraq since the U.S. invasion toppled Saddam Hussein.
U.S. officials say the newest one was found 30 miles south of Baghdad. They say the victims are believed to be from an uprising of Shia Iraqis in 1991.
Back home from war in Iraq. About 200 members of the 101st Airborne division reunited with families and friends today. The troops flew into their home base of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, after almost a year in Iraq. 400 more of the so-called Screaming Eagles are due to arrive this week.
Search for a no-show. Why one name on a canceled Air France flight is in the security spotlight.
F-16 escort. New details about military planes escorting passenger flights since code orange went into effect.
And Dean bashing. A new ad goes after the current Democratic front-runner. Sushi eaters and latte drinkers all in about 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The holidays are over, but the nation's terror alert level remains at orange or high. European officials right now are searching for a man who was a no-show on an Air France flight scheduled to fly to Los Angeles Christmas Eve, but was canceled amid security fears.
And U.S. military jets are still escorting some commercial airliners. We have two reports on this story. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena and Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. We begin with Kelli -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: U.S. and French officials tell CNN they are looking for a man who did not show up for that Christmas Eve Air France flight. Now there were several individuals who did not show up, and investigators have been tracking them down one by one to make sure that none of them have any links to terrorism.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: With respect to airline flights, we had some information over the holiday period, with respect to certain individuals with names that hit our database. A lot of these names have not only duplicates, triplicates, but many similar names. And it takes a while to sort through this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ARENA: Investigators say the man they are looking for is the only no-show they haven't been able to track down. His name is Abdul Hay but officials say that they do not know much more about him. Now he caused some concern because his name is similar to the name of an Afghan with close ties to the Taliban who was in U.S. custody in Kandahar and escaped.
U.S. officials say that they have concluded that the two men are not one and the same, although they will not say exactly how they reached that conclusion. Now there's no evidence that this individual poses any threat, but investigators are hoping to find him soon to help button up this investigation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Sure they would like to find him very, very quickly. Thank you very much, Kelli, for that.
Report. Now the latest on U.S. fighter jets being scrambled to escort passenger planes. Here's CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr -Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, military fighter jets have now escorted commercial flights into the United States about 15 times since code orange went into effect just before Christmas.
And although the alert will be ratcheted back at some point, we continue to learn new details about just how prepared the U.S. military has been in this entire mission.
Now just after December 21, when code orange took effect, as you would expect, U.S. military pilots participating in the escort mission were called in. They reviewed all of their training, their procedures, their tactics, especially how they are called into action to conduct a military escort when the FAA says there may be trouble and they would like military assistance, and they also reviewed procedures for the unthinkable, if there was a requirement to shoot down a commercial plane over the United States.
That, of course, would directly involve President Bush, and that did not happen. The result of this is they decided all of their training, all of their procedures were accurate, were good, and they kept them all in place.
Now one other detail has emerged about just how prepared the U.S. military has been. Administration sources tell CNN that over the last several days, some flights from Paris to Los Angeles had their midair flight paths diverted when they were over Las Vegas. In fact, before they approached the city of Las Vegas, basically, they were diverted away from flying directly over that city because of the concerns about the potential for a terrorist attack against Las Vegas.
Now, all of this, of course, occurring while the planes were at a relatively high altitude. Those commercial flights flying at somewhere around 40,000 feet. So the diversion of those flight paths was never apparent to the passengers on board -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Barbara Starr with some more important information at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you very much for that.
Anti-Dean -- the Democratic front-runner is told to take a hike. Hear the new ad hitting the airwaves today.
Policy push. How the president's plan to give illegal immigrants status as temporary workers might affect you. I'll talk live with the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson. And no laughing matter -- the joke by Hillary Rodham Clinton that now has the senator apologizing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: After devoting their attention to Iowa and its upcoming caucuses, the Democratic candidates for president are starting to pay more attention to another key state.
Today the focus is on the nation's first presidential primary, less than three weeks from now.
Iowa is so yesterday. The place to be today or so it seems is New Hampshire and that's where John Kerry is delivering a speech on worker's rights, taking aim at the Bush administration's record on corporate responsibility.
Polls indicating he's now tied with Kerry for second spot in New Hampshire. Wesley Clark continues hitting the state hard. Meeting with voters today, he holds his "Conversations with Clark."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WESLEY CLARK (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Help charity, help your fellow human being. Help lift people up. There's only one political party in America that really lives that faith, and that's our party, the Democratic party, and that's why I'm proud to be a Democrat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Out to distinguish himself as the clearest alternative to Howard Dean, Joe Lieberman talked domestic policy in a speech today in Nashua. He spends the rest of the day campaigning throughout the state with wife Hadasa.
She hasn't spent as much time in the granite state as some of the others, but Carol Moseley Braun is making up for it today as she addressed the New Hampshire Community Action Association.
Across the nation in Iowa and campaigning more and more as an outsider, John Edwards spoke in Des Moines on his plan to limit lobbyists' influence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to end the stranglehold that these lobbyists and these special interests have on your democracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And in Musketeen, Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You want to be sure you don't hit the ceiling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Howard Dean fed and entertained hungry supporters at a Caucus for Change pancake breakfast. He heads back to Vermont later today.
Richard Gephardt rallied with steel workers in South Carolina today only to head back to Iowa for an event later tonight.
And before talking immigration, President Bush, gearing up for the 2004 campaign, attended a Republican National Committee luncheon earlier today. And that's our look at the 2004 presidential candidates on the trail.
What do sushi lovers, Volvo drivers and Americans who read the "New York Times" have in common? They're all part of the mix in a new attack ad that takes aim at Democratic presidential front-runner Howard Dean. This story from Howard Kurtz with "CNN's Reliable Sources."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Dick Gephardt, Joe Lieberman, and Howard Dean all rolled out new ads this week in the battle for Iowa and New Hampshire. But none of them are taking off the gloves just yet. These spots are basically political patty-cake. The punchiest Iowa ad, in fact, is from an independent group, the Conservative Club for Growth, which mocks the Democratic front runner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Howard Dean should take his tax- hiking, government- expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo- driving, "New York Times"-reading...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Body-piercing, Hollywood-loving, left-wing freak show back to Vermont where it belongs.
KURTZ: Pretty rough stuff going negative on latte lovers but Club for Growth president Steve Moore says his $100,000 ad bite is designed to hurt Dean in the general election since he thinks the former Vermont governor has the nomination sewn up.
STEPHEN MOORE, PRESIDENT, CLUB FOR GROWTH: I would put pretty high odds at this point that Howard Dean is going to be the nominee.
KURTZ: The candidates are replaying their greatest hits and targeting certain voting blocs. Dean is the doctor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As governor, he provided health care coverage for nearly every child in his state and a prescription drug benefits for seniors.
KURTZ: Senior citizens, you may recall, vote in large numbers. Dean also promises...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To provide health insurance for every American.
KURTZ: Well, not quite. The Dean plan would cover only 30 million of the 45 million uninsured.
Gephardt is Mr. "Tough on Trade," pitching himself to Iowa union members and farmers hurt by global competition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One candidate for president voted against NAFTA and the China trade deal. Dick Gephardt.
REP. DICK GEPHARDT (D-MO), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must raise global standards so that everyone everywhere does better.
KURTZ: Lieberman is the middle-of-the-road centrist seeking middle class votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's the only one who's proposed a new cut in tax rates for the middle class not tax increases. The only one fighting for paid family and medical leave. He's the only one who's consistently taking a clear stand against terrorism and tyranny.
Kurtz: The only one opposed to terrorism? Not quite. But even this Lieberman swipe by Dean's temperament in a New Hampshire ad...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will take more than extreme anger...
KURTZ: Doesn't mention Howard Dean's name.
Why does the Club for Growth pummel Dean while his rivals are running softer ads. Simple. Candidates who attack often trigger a backlash because voters see then as too negative. But if the Dean steamroller keeps moving at full speed, his opponents may risk throwing some sharper tacks beneath his tires. This is Howard Kurtz of "CNN's Reliable Sources."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We're getting some very disturbing information coming in to CNN right now. A breaking story from Baghdad. Let's go right to Baghdad. CNN's Ram Ramgopal is on the phone with us. Ram, tell us what you are hearing?
RAM RAMGOPAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What I'm hearing at this point is basically by way of a news release that 35 soldiers assigned to one particular unit were wounded when six mortar rounds impacted their base which is just west of Baghdad, according to this news release which is coming from the combined joint task force here in Baghdad.
They say that this unit was a camp, a forward area, really and they are telling us the wounded soldiers were given first and some have also been evacuated from the site for further medical treatment.
Details at this point are sketchy but this happened just a short time ago. About five hours ago, actually, this evening on Wednesday. Back to you. BLITZER: Ram Ramgopal, 35 U.S. soldiers wounded in one attack, that seems like a pretty large number. Do you remember incidents of that magnitude since the end of major combat, when 35 soldiers injured, wounded in one attack?
RAMGOPAL: That is indeed correct.
We have not heard anything of this scale, certainly in terms in numbers, as you rightly point out. But, at the same time, we're not quite sure how major these injuries are at this stage, at least from what we're seeing in the press release. We've been working the phones, calling a few people. They don't have any details on the type of injuries sustained.
But, at the same time, they do talk about six mortar rounds being fired at this logistical base, which would make it a fairly significant attack -- back to you.
BLITZER: And one question, Ram. I take it this base was outside that so-called Green Zone, the most secure part of the Iraqi capital. Is that right?
RAMGOPAL: That is indeed correct.
From our understanding, this is in a place close to Balad, which is northwest of the capital here. And it's certainly outside the city. At this point, I'm just trying to get the information that I'm seeing in front of me, there's very sketchy details at this point. It could well be that this was a region which is not really in the city, indeed.
BLITZER: All right, Ram Ramgopal reporting for us on the phone from Baghdad. He'll get some more information.
The headline, though, 35 American soldiers wounded in an attack. Six mortar rounds land at a base just outside of Baghdad. We'll get some more information, go back there as soon as we get it.
Meanwhile, the hunt continues, but many are wondering if Iraq's weapons of mass destruction ever existed. How solid was the U.S. intelligence? New details emerging right now.
Was she or wasn't she? Rumors swirl that Princess Diana may have been pregnant when she died. Today, a coroner speaks out.
A megafraud? New information on the woman who claimed the winning ticket in Ohio's lottery was hers. Could she face charges?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.
Immigration overhaul, a move to give millions of illegal immigrants legal working status. We'll get to that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
Evangelist Billy Graham is hospitalized in Florida. He was in Jacksonville for a checkup when he fell and broke his hip. The 85- year-old underwent surgery for a partial replacement last night. He's said to be doing well and is expected to recover fully.
A former royal coroner tells "The Times of London," Princess Diana was not pregnant when she died. John Burton was one of two people to examine the body after her 1997 death in a Paris car crash. Rumors have swirled ever since that Diana was ordered killed because she was carrying boyfriend Dodi Fayed's child. Not true.
An Ohio woman who claimed she bought, but lost a lottery ticket worth $162 million has a criminal record. Elecia Battle acknowledges being charged with credit card fraud and assault, but says she was never convicted. She's suing to stop payment of the jackpot to another woman who lottery officials declared the winner.
As we reported earlier, President Bush has proposed a revision of U.S. immigration laws that would allow eight million illegal immigrants, perhaps as many as 10 million, to obtain legal status as temporary workers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Out of common sense and fairness, our laws should allow willing workers to enter our country and fill jobs that Americans are not filling.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Immigration is an issue that has long divided the American public and the battle lines are not necessarily being drawn along political lines.
President Bush's plan is drawing serious opposition from some fellow Republicans, including U.S. Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado.
Congressman Tancredo is joining us now live from Denver.
Congressman, why do you propose what the president has proposed?
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), COLORADO: Because it's lousy public policy. That's why. It's lousy public policy.
You should never, ever, ever reward people for breaking the law. The president says that the law is not working. Well, you know, I got to tell you, Mr. President, it's not the law that's the problem. It's the lack of enforcement. It's the fact that this administration and prior administrations -- it doesn't matter how far back you want to go -- has decided that not enforcing the law was preferable, because they wanted cheap labor.
Nothing has changed. And to suggest that the law is the problem is disingenuous.
BLITZER: But the argument, though, as you well know, Congressman, is that these people are already here. They're working illegally. They're making money. They're not paying taxes. At least if you get a system in place whereby they could start paying taxes, that's going to benefit the overall economy, as well as the taxpayers in general.
TANCREDO: Let me tell you what will happen to the economy and to the taxpayer in general and to the American worker, if we were really to do something like this.
The first thing that would happen is that employers would start publishing jobs, publicizing jobs availability for about two or three dollars less an hour than they're presently paying, right? They won't get takers. Then they'll go, of course, to this pool of workers and start importing even more illegal -- or more -- in that case, they'll be legal -- but more workers into the United States.
This does nothing for the American worker. It certainly does nothing for our standard of living. It is, in fact, dangerous from every single aspect. It's bad public policy. And it's also, by the way, lousy politics, as far as I'm concerned.
BLITZER: Well, the president, as you also know, made a point of saying this is going to help national security, homeland security, in particular, because now there's going to be documentation of all of these people, or at least many of them, and at least homeland security officials will have a sense who these people are, where they're coming from. They'll be able to watch them.
TANCREDO: Yes.
Well, frankly, most of the terrorists that I think are in this country are probably not waiting to sign up in any sort of guest worker program. The reality, of course, is that the borders are porous. That's the national security issue, the fact that we are allowing people to come into this country without our knowledge. Last year, we stopped one million people at the border.
We estimate between three and five -- for every single person that we stopped and interdicted, three to five get past us. So that means up to five million people came into the country last year illegally that we don't know about. And I guarantee you, not all of them came to take a job at Kmart or at Wal-Mart. A lot of those people that came into this country came to do something very bad.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Congressman, we only have a few seconds left. So why is the president, who is a fellow Republican, a good conservative, why do you believe he's doing this?
TANCREDO: I believe he's doing it for two reasons.
One, it is pandering to a constituency he thinks we do not have and that he does not have. And that's, of course, Hispanics. He's wrong. He's wrong. We've got 30 to 35 percent of Hispanics support our position on this issue. And he's also wrong if he thinks it's just going play well even in the business community.
Most businesses will say, you know what? It's easier for me to hire people who are here illegally than to go through this hassle. So I think that, simply, Karl Rove should go back to the drawing board on this one.
BLITZER: All right, Congressman Thomas Tancredo of Colorado, outspoken, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.
TANCREDO: You're welcome.
BLITZER: Let's get a different perspective now.
Joining us, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. He's a Democrat from a border state. He has, of course, a keen interest in the immigration problem. But his interests, of course, go well beyond America's borders. As a globe-trotting congressman and United Nations ambassador, he helped negotiate the release of prisoners in Iraq, North Korea and Sudan. He's also a former, as I said, ambassador to the U.N., a former energy secretary.
Ambassador Richardson, among other things, you are also Hispanic. What do you make of the arguments, the point that Congressman Tancredo made, that this is simply an election-year gambit by the president to get votes?
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Well, I disagree with the substance of the congressman's I think very extreme views.
America is a nation of immigrants. And I think the president had an opportunity to present a plan that legalizes status of approximately eight million undocumented workers that are working lawfully, that -- their kids are in schools. And the president, regrettably, missed an opportunity.
BLITZER: You would have wanted the president to go further?
RICHARDSON: Yes, not citizenship, but some kind of legal status, a green card for those that are here lawfully. Now...
BLITZER: Well, let me interrupt for you a second, Mr. Governor.
Why, why should these people, as Congressman Tancredo says, be rewarded for illegal activity?
RICHARDSON: Well, many of them came here. They're working. They're paying taxes. Many are, Wolf.
There are a lot of kids on the border, a lot of states with kids, immigrant kids. They're going to school. They're getting health care. We, as border governors, wanted some way to give them legal status -- again, not full citizenship -- that has to be earned -- that involves a cooperation between the state and the federal government. What we've done -- I think what the president has done, although it's a little bit of a step forward is given temporary worker status for three years, without any kind of light at the end of the tunnel.
BLITZER: They can get a renewal for another three years.
RICHARDSON: Yes.
BLITZER: So, six years, that's a good start for these people, don't you think?
RICHARDSON: Well, it's a very mild start. I think what we hoped, many Hispanic groups, border governors, when President Fox and President Bush met three years ago, they agreed that they would work towards a legalization program in about two to three years.
President Bush, regrettably, has backed off of that. I think it's for political reasons, concerned about the Republican right that doesn't want anyone, as I think Congressman Tancredo...
BLITZER: It's already angering them, as you well see.
(CROSSTALK)
RICHARDSON: And the problem is that those that want to be with the president on this, that wanted something substantial, we're a little disappointed.
Now, it's a mild step forward. But, at the same time, it is not a legalized status that I think many of these individuals deserve. Many right now are going to be eventually part of the American mainstream. They probably will become citizens. But then President Fox in Mexico probably will be disappointed. I hope not.
BLITZER: What do you say that this is simply going to provide a lot of cheap labor out there and that average American workers are going to suffer with this big new pool that's going to be made available?
RICHARDSON: Well, that is a concern of mine.
It's also a concern of mine that many of these undocumented workers, temporary workers, won't have the full worker rights that they deserve. Any worker should have full rights. So, I'm a little disappointed in the president's proposal, but I'm not throwing all kinds of negatives, like the congressman did. I just wish that it would be more.
Now, the hope is that this proposal of the president is a starting point, that the president will realize that, for whatever reason -- humanitarian, political, social policy -- that he go one step further. And that is a legalized status for these individuals, not citizenship, but a legalized status, a green card, so they can stay here and be part of the American mainstream.
BLITZER: But, grudgingly, you have got to give them some credit for taking this step.
RICHARDSON: Yes, a slight bit of credit. But he had an opportunity, I think, politically, too, to go substantially further. And it would have been good social policy and good politics for him. Right now, I think, at best, it's a wash.
BLITZER: All right, we'll see. Governor, thanks, as usual, for joining us.
RICHARDSON: Thank you.
BLITZER: Updating our breaking news story, 35 American soldiers injured in a mortar attack just outside Baghdad. We'll have a live report from the Iraqi capital. That's coming up.
Plus this: Iraq's WMDs, weapons of mass destruction. They are still MIA. Will Saddam Hussein's WMD ever be found? I'll speak with a journalist investigating all the claims.
And a Hillary Clinton hiccup? The New York senator taking heat after a joke, a so-called joke, she made at a fund-raiser.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Thirty-five United States soldiers wounded in a mortar attack just outside Baghdad.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is the in Iraqi capital. He is joining us live.
What are you hearing about this attack, Karl?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, details still a little bit sketchy, a simple five-line communique from the military.
What they are telling us is, more or less an hour and a half after sundown, a barrage of six mortars slams into a logistics base near the town of Balad, just west of Baghdad; 35 American soldiers have been wounded. We understand they received emergency medical treatment on the spot and they've now been evacuated for hospital treatment.
Balad, as I say, west of Baghdad, within the Sunni Triangle, the area that most anti-coalition insurgent activity has been taking place. It's been somewhat quiet there, Wolf, in the last few days, but certainly the insurgency back with a bang the , coinciding, in fact, with announcements by Ambassador Paul Bremer, the coalition administrator, that he's ready to make gestures of reconciliation and release some of those in Baghdad who have been detained on suspicion of assisting the insurgency.
BLITZER: CNN's Karl Penhaul, monitoring this story for us, we'll get back to you as soon as you get some more information, 35 American soldiers wounded.
We do not -- repeat, do not know the extent of those injuries. We're trying to find out.
There's also a new development in the long-running search for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. A very, very detailed article in today's "Washington Post" says that, when the war started, Iraq did not have any -- repeat, did not have any nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.
Earlier, I spoke with the reporter who wrote "The Washington Post" article, Barton Gellman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Bart Gellman, terrific reporting once again.
Let's go through the bottom-line details. As far as Iraq's nuclear weapons program, what have they found out so far?
BARTON GELLMAN, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, nuclear turns out to be the easiest. It was on the ground. It was flattened by 1996 and really did not rebuild itself. It was a mess.
BLITZER: So, basically, as far as everything you've discovered, there was no nuclear -- significant nuclear program in Iraq at all? Is that what you concluded?
GELLMAN: There was certainly no significant nuclear weapons program. There was barely anything, if anything, that you could say was nuclear weapons basic research. The nearest thing they came was a rail gun that was about air defense.
BLITZER: What about biological weapons?
GELLMAN: The most interesting thing to me that I learned is what they were looking for, not what they found. They found almost nothing. They found no resumption of anthrax and other previous programs.
What they also did not find was an effort to genetically engineer a new form of life, a new generation of pathogens that would be much more dangerous than anything existing in nature. We didn't know that the U.S. government thought that was so significant a risk. They were looking for a pox virus that would have been crossed with cobra venom. And that did not exist.
BLITZER: We know the Iraqis used chemical weapons against Kurds in the late '80s, against Iranians. What did you find out about mustard gas, other chemical weapons that they supposedly had in significant quantities?
GELLMAN: Well, the interesting thing is that David Kay of the Iraq Survey Group has pretty much dropped the chemical investigation as of October.
The survey group differs fundamentally with the CIA's national estimate from the year before, which said that Iraq had resumed production and had learned how to stabilize its most dangerous nerve agent, V.X. The investigators have found a chemical industry that was no longer capable of manufacturing chemical weapons in any quantity and no sign that they did so at all.
BLITZER: What about ballistic missiles, beyond those that were allowed, the short-range ballistic missiles? What did they have, what kind of capability, in terms of medium- or long-range missiles?
GELLMAN: Well, the most interesting thing that I turned up was that there was a whole new generation or a whole new family of missiles on the drawing board in Iraq. And this was a secret from the inspectors.
These were literally on the drawing board or the 21st century equivalent of it. It was CAD/CAM software on a computer. They had concept drawings. They had flight computations about a hypothetical missile that could have reached Tel Aviv and Tehran and Istanbul. But it existed only on compact disc. It was not an actual missile. And the experts I have talked -- and I spend a lot of time on this -- estimate it would have taken six years or longer for Iraq to actually make such a missile.
BLITZER: Bart Gellman of "The Washington Post," thanks for your excellent reporting. Thanks for joining us.
GELLMAN: Thank you.
BLITZER: And if our viewers want more information, they can of course read your long article. They can go "The Washington Post" Web site.
Bart, thanks again.
GELLMAN: Thank you. Bye-bye.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In response to Barton Gellman's 6,000-word article, a spokesman says the hunt for Iraqi weapons of mass destruction continues.
Asking for forgiveness:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It was a lame attempt at humor, and I am very sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A joke gone bad. Now the former first lady is in hot water. Will an apology satisfy Senator Clinton's critics?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Did you hear the one about Hillary Clinton and Mahatma Gandhi? It's no joke, but rather a case of foot in mouth for the New York senator and former first lady.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): She often comes off as smooth as her husband, rarely, if ever, caught fumbling or off guard, especially when cameras are near, all the more reason this joke drew a collective whoa.
CLINTON: I love this quote. It's from Mahatma Gandhi. He ran a gas station down in Saint Louis for a couple of years. Mr. Gandhi, you still go to the gas station? A lot of wisdom comes out of that gas station.
BLITZER: In virtually the same breath, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton called Gandhi one of the great leaders of the 20th century, then quoted him. This was at an event Saturday benefiting Missouri senatorial candidate Nancy Farmer.
In Albuquerque Monday, a seemingly scripted effort at damage control.
CLINTON: Well, it was a lame attempt at humor. And I am very sorry that it might have been interpreted in a way that would cause distress to anyone. I have the highest regard for Mahatma Gandhi and have been a longtime admirer of his life and his teachings.
BLITZER: Stereotypes of Indian immigrants have been used before as a comedic crutch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE SIMPSONS")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Shall I take you to the pilot? You see, because that is your son.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I heard you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Yes, because someone saved your life tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Has the Indian community had enough? Reaction to Hillary Clinton ranges from outrage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think it's insulting, because Gandhi is the father of India. He's the national leader. People worship him. It's just like saying Martin Luther or George Washington cleaning toilet in India.
BLITZER: To some context, on the support she and her husband have shown for Gandhi's legacy and message.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gandhi himself made gaffes. And he called them Himalayan blunders. In 1995, I directed a program which was held by the Indian Embassy at Kennedy Center in Washington for Gandhi's 125th birth anniversary. And Mrs. Clinton was the chief invited speaker and prepared a beautiful presentation.
BLITZER: Analysts say Hillary Clinton won't likely suffer politically, although the Indian community has a large voting-age population in New York.
But what of the packaging, the image of the cool cucumber who never missteps?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: It means even a careful, scripted, calculating person can sometimes make mistakes. She's human. Lots of people make mistakes.
BLITZER: And how would the spiritual founder of modern India himself react?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would have startled him, no doubt. I'm sure he would have eagerly accepted her apology.
BLITZER: And, again, a Clinton would defy political gravity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we'll have the results of our "Web Question of the Day." That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here are the results of our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look. You see it right there.Remember, this is not -- repeat, not -- a scientific poll.
In our picture of the day, a bizarre rescue at a Piggly Wiggly in Wisconsin. A locksmith had to be called the supermarket to get a 7- year-old boy out of a stuffed animal machine. The child crawled into the machine through the shoot where the toys come out while his father was talking on the phone. What a picture.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
END
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Weapons Only On Paper?; Democratic Hopefuls Set Eyes On New Hampshire>
