Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

New Election Polls Put Kerry in Front; Interview With Rudy Giuliani

Aired March 08, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Face off. New figures show who's in front. And the candidates trade punches.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here to march with you in Florida, the beginning of the end of the Bush administration.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My opponent clearly has strong beliefs, they just don't last very long.

BLITZER: Probation meeting. Martha Stewart gets more bad news and more to look forward to. We'll look at life in prison.

I'll talk politics, prosecutions and more with former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Shoot-out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know two things about it. One, he was firing at my Marines. And two, he was killed.

BLITZER: From exile, Haiti's ex-president takes his own potshots.

From actor to diplomat, promoting peace on a world stage. I'll speak with "Seinfeld" star Jason Alexander.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER'S REPORTS for Monday, March 8, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The gloves are off. You might think the presidential election is tomorrow the way the president and Senator John Kerry have been going after each other today.

The president has been hammering away at Kerry at every stop in his home state of Texas. And Kerry is in the key state of Florida where he made a stunning claim about a surprising group of supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KERRY: I remember spring break. You could come down here, kick back, lay around, do nothing. The only place can you do that now is on the Bush economic team.

BLITZER (voice-over): John Kerry rallying Florida Democrats whose bad memories of the 2000 election recount are still all too fresh.

But earlier at a private fund-raiser, he made more serious allegations. In an offcamera meeting with reporters, Kerry said unnamed foreign leaders tell him they want President Bush out of office. Quote, "I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but boy, they look at you and say, You've got to win this. You got to beat this guy. We need a new policy, things like that."

Kerry mentioned no names, and we don't know who he was referring to. We do know that President Bush has had a sometimes rocky relationship with some world leaders because of the war in Iraq.

His comments trigger an immediate response from the Bush/Cheney campaign. Quote, "Kerry's foreign friends may prefer him as U.S. president. But the election is in the hands of the American people."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here he is on the victory, Senator John Kerry.

BLITZER: Wrapping up a four day southern tour today, the Democrats' top man has a tough message: the South is not Mr. Bush's for the taking. But as the president's war chest grows, Kerry aides concede, a tough road lies ahead.

AD ANNOUNCER: Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, hair style by Christoph's, $75.

BLITZER: A road made even tougher with attack ads like this one, paid for by this conservative group, Citizens United, already hitting the airwaves in Washington, D.C.

AD ANNOUNCER: Another rich, liberal, elitist from Massachusetts who claims he's a man of the people, priceless.

BLITZER: For now, Kerry enjoys a six-point lead over President Bush in Florida. "The Miami Herald"/"St. Petersburg Times" poll also has independent candidate Ralph Nader picking up 3 percent, roughly twice what he got last time around.

But November is still a long time away. And if history is any indication, Florida can't be called too soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: President Bush's offensive in Texas today has two obvious goals: hit Kerry, hit him hard, and raise more millions for an already huge campaign war chest. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is joining us with more on the president's game plan -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, President Bush spending his day in Dallas as well as Houston. When the day is said and done, he'll have raised some $3 million for his campaign. Of course, jump starting the first full week of campaigning before very friendly audiences where he enjoys a tremendous amount of support.

In listening to his stump speech, his strategy is very obvious. And that is to define his opponent in the most critical light, to defend his own record as well as shape the debate. And the main message, the key theme, of course, here is President Bush saying that he is a leader. You may not like his decisions but he has the courage to make the tough choices he says Senator Kerry does not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Senator Kerry voted for the PATRIOT Act, for NAFTA, for the No Child Left Behind Act and for the use of force in Iraq. Now he opposes the PATRIOT Act, NAFTA, the No Child Left Behind Act and the liberation of Iraq.

My opponent clearly has strong beliefs, they just don't last very long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And President Bush is not backing down from using September 11 tragedy as part of the campaign. He argues that that tragedy taught him a very important lesson. There if there are threats against the United States, the American people that he will meet those threats.

Should also let you know, Wolf, as well later in the day he will be at that livestock as well as rodeo show that is in Houston. There is expected to be more than a million people attending that event. And of course President Bush will be doing a lot of handshaking -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at White House. Thanks, Suzanne, very much.

So far President Bush's fierce attacks on Kerry do not appear to be causing much damage. The latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows that Kerry still faces a very tough road to the White House. Joining us with more on this new poll, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

Let's take a look, Bill, at some numbers, we'll put them up on the screen. Likely voters, their choice for president. Take look at this. Kerry, 52 percent, Bush 44 percent. Four points sampling error. What's going on here?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It shows Kerry is starting out with a slight lead. It's just within the margin of error. And by no means going to be a runaway for either candidate most likely.

You put Ralph Nader in the list and what happens? He gets 2 percent. Very small vote. But that 2 percent would come entirely from John Kerry, which is why Democrats are worried about the Nader factor in states that are close.

BLITZER: States that are close, that 2 percent could easily be decisive once again.

Let's take a look at another poll. Even though Kerry is ahead of Bush among likely voters, when you ask likely voters who do they think will win, look at this. Bush come out on top with 52 percent to Kerry's 42 percent.

SCHNEIDER: And what that means is while a lot of people, a majority of people say they're going to vote for Kerry, they think other people are not. So a lot of people say I'm going to vote for him but you know my friends and neighbors are going to vote for Bush. They expect Bush to win.

BLITZER: Very important who Kerry will pick as his vice presidential running mate. Let's put other numbers up on the screen right now. Look at this. Among the people we questioned, the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, John Edwards gets 30 percent compared to everybody else in single digits. Isn't that surprising?

SCHNEIDER: No, he's the best known, he did creditably well in the primaries. He won one primary and is widely applauded for his campaign style. He has a populist economic message. He's the most popular choice among Democrat.

Will he get it? Well, Kerry's got to make a political decision. Will he help Kerry win? You'll notice that almost half, 47 percent said they were not sure. This is not their decision, it's John Kerry's decision.

BLITZER: John Kerry has to feel comfortable with his running mate.

And look at this number as far as those controversial ads that the Bush/Cheney campaign released last week that used the images of 9/11. Appropriate, 42 percent. Inappropriate, 54 percent. Do you think that's going to convince the Bush/Cheney campaign to stop using the images?

SCHNEIDER: No, the president said he intends to run on 9/11. Look, that was the defining moment of his presidency. If he doesn't run on 9/11, he ain't going to win. He's got to use it very carefully, is what this poll says. He can't appear to be exploiting a tragedy or offending the families involved.

But for George Bush, the moment he lifted up the megaphone and said, I can hear, you can you hear me and the people who did this are going to pay, that, he has to show, is the most important moment of his presidency.

BLITZER: Bill Schneider, as usual, crunching the number for us. Thanks, Bill, very much.

Much more coming up. Martha Stewart's conviction likely to lead to at least some time in a federal prison. What will a potential prison sentence be like for the home making maven? We'll show you.

He helped bring down organized crime in New York. I'll ask the former mayor, the former U.S. attorney, Rudy Giuliani his thoughts on Martha Stewart's conviction and more. He'll speak with us live.

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ALEXANDER, ACTOR: It is inviting the people themselves, the population themselves to build the platform by which this piece can be established.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He's known as the scheming George Costanza from "Seinfeld" but in real life Jason Alexander right now trying to create peace in the Middle East. I'll ask him how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Martha Stewart today spoke publicly for the first time since her conviction of lying about a stock sale. It happened just after a probation meeting in New York City, the first step toward her sentencing in June. CNN's Mary Snow is in New York with more -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Martha Stewart had two things to attend to today. Her business empire and also the sentence she will ultimately face in June and today, she began the first round of that sentencing process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Martha Stewart returned to federal court. This time a convicted criminal. She reported to the probation office for about an hour. Leaving the courthouse, Stewart spoke publicly for the first time since her conviction. Holding an umbrella bearing the namesake of her company, "it's a very good company" is what she said. Getting into a car she said, quote, "I want to thank my readers, my viewers, and the Internet users. I just want to thank everyone for their support."

Stewart's meeting is the first step in the process leading up to her sentencing on June 17. Legal experts expect the sentence to be in the range of 10 and 18 months and things like acceptance of responsibility can be taken into consideration.

IRA SORKIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you show contrition and you show that you're sorry and you show that you regret what you did in a sincere and honest way in the eyes of the judge, that's going to count to getting a lesser sentence.

SNOW: Stewart's legal problems are one part of her battle. Her business is the other. Her television show was canceled on both CBS and UPN, and a person close to Stewart's situation says her main focus right now isn't so much on her legal troubles but the future of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, a company built on the Martha Stewart brand and one in which she owns a majority stake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: We're told that the board of directors of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia was scheduled to meet this afternoon. But a spokesperson for the company was unable to be reached. But on Friday, the company did say that the board of directors would meet promptly to carefully evaluate the situation and take actions as appropriate. Also, Wolf, the stock of the company sliding for a second day today, down 9 percent -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mary Snow in New York. Thanks, Mary, very much. Considering that Martha Stewart is a first-time offender should she be sentenced to prison at all? That's one of the questions on the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. Check it out. Look at this. 53 percent said yes. 40 percent said no. Experts say Stewart will likely spend between 10 and 18 months in prison, but will it be hard time or soft time? CNN's Brian Todd looks at what her life behind bars might look like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All jokes aside about thread count and color scheme, prison life for Martha Stewart has a range of possibilities, depending where she goes and who you talk to who's been there.

SUSAN MCDOUGAL, FORMER INMATE: Every room you walk into in a federal institution is a fearful place.

TODD: Some more fearful than others. If Stewart goes to prison, some predict she'll end up at a federal prison camp like the one at Alderson (ph), West Virginia, or the camp adjacent to the federal correction institution at Danbury, Connecticut, now housing less than 200 women.

PAUL CALLAN, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Most of these prisons, and Danbury is an example of it, I guess you can compare them to an elementary school that was built maybe in the 1960s surrounded by barbed wire. They tend to be sort of spartan surroundings, you know, a lot of cinder block. Prisoners put two to a cubicle frequently. You know, there are some -- you can watch television and there are some facilities, there is gardening and cooking and things like that that she can do. But it's a very spartan existence.

TODD: Still in some places Danbury looks like Martha Stewart's been there. Interior pictures are hard to come by, but an official at the U.S. Bureau of Prisons tell us generally these camps are like open dormitories, with rows of bunks and community bathrooms with banks of showers and commodes. A typical day at most camps, inmates are up by about 6:00 a.m., breakfast shortly thereafter. Just after 7:30 a.m., it's off to work.

FOSTER WYNANS, FORMER DANBURY INMATE: My advice to Martha would be to get herself a mop. There are jobs in the kitchen, there are jobs that -- some of the facilities have factories that produce things for the federal government.

TODD: Picture Martha Stewart as an orderly, food server, plumber, painter, or groundskeeper. The workday ends 3:30, head count at 4:00, dinner at 5:00. Some recreation time at 8:30. Lights out by 11:30. People who've served time either at the camps or the low to medium security women's prisons say the term Club Fed is a myth.

KAREN BOND, FMR. INMATE: For Heaven's sakes learn not to speak your mind when you get to prison if you end up there.

SUSAN MCDOUGAL: FMR. INMATE: When she gets there be there will be people waiting to help her, and there will be people waiting to give her a very hard time.

TODD: A hard time for a household name no matter where she goes. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Prosecuting organized crime, so what does Rudy Giuliani think about Martha Stewart's conviction? I'll speak with the former New York City mayor about her case and much more.

They've been used for almost a year to help coalition forces track down Iraq's most wanted. We'll look at which cards have folded. Plus he's the biggest fish left, now the hunt for Osama bin Laden is gaining a brand-new weapon. We have details when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Joining us to talk more about the Martha Stewart case and other issues in the news today, the former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, always welcome here on our program.

RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you for joining us. Give us your thoughts when you heard that Martha Stewart was convicted. What went through your mind?

GIULIANI: Well, you know, actually following it somewhat, I wasn't surprised, particularly by those jury questions about the elements of the crime and it seemed like it was headed in that direction. I was surprised it was on every count because it seemed like a closer -- somewhat of a closer case to me than that. But I learned a long time ago that you basically can't predict jury verdicts, and once they happen, you have to respect them.

BLITZER: You speak not only as a former mayor of New York, but as a former federal prosecutor of the U.S. attorney in New York. So you know a lot about this so you had your share, you prosecuted a bunch of white collar criminals, Michael Milken's name comes to mind. Was this worth the taxpayer's expense to spend all this money to prosecute Martha Stewart? She was never charged with actual insider trading. GIULIANI: I think the jury probably has vindicated the government's decision to bring the case, right? It was our system, it was tried before a group of 12 people, they unanimously found her guilty on every count. So although there was some debate about the wisdom of the prosecution, that kind of underscores it in about the strongest way possible.

BLITZER: I've been getting lots of e-mail from women saying the only reason they went after her the way they did, the obstruction of justice, the lying, was because she's a high-powered high-profile woman. If it would have been a man, they would have left her alone.

GIULIANI: That isn't the way things work in the Justice Department of the United States attorney's office. They really do work based on -- as best they can, neutral applications of the law. And again, if you credit the jury's verdict as we must, misrepresenting to the government is a -- something the government takes very seriously, particularly about this kind of transaction. So I think you have to say that anybody in that position would be subject to prosecution. That's one of the reasons that defense lawyers keep telling you you shouldn't go talk to the government unless you have immunity.

BLITZER: You know something about what she could expect at a federal prison, even a minimum security prison. What can she expect?

GIULIANI: Federal prison is not pleasant. This whole idea -- I saw you have the piece on before about Club Fed and all that. Nobody wants to go to prison, and it's a very, very difficult thing. Someone like Martha Stewart, prison has to be a nightmare for her, but the beauty of our system is that the judge, Judge Cederbaum is appointed for life.

There's nothing at all political about the decision she's going to make, it's going to be made based on that probation report where the options by the guidelines probably require some jail time, but she can vary it, and write an opinion, and actually give no time at all or even give more time than the guidelines provide, so the judge has ultimate discretion here, and Martha Stewart is very lucky. She's got a judge that is a very, very fair judge who's going to end up making this decision, I think, based on whatever the probation report says.

BLITZER: Let's talk about presidential politics a little bit. You're a big supporter of President Bush, Vice President Cheney. John Kerry today said this, let me read it to you, I'll put it up on the screen. He said, "I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly but, boy, they look at you and say, you've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy. We need a new policy. Things like that so there's enormous energy out there." What do you make of this statement?

GIULIANI: I don't know, I think that's a pretty good President Bush campaign ad. Foreign leaders want somebody else. Given the fact, given the fact that the president has put the best interest of the United States first, it's pretty clear that some other countries don't put the best interest of the United States first. I think the fact that maybe they'd like a little less heat off them is actually an argument for the good kind of leadership the president has provided.

BLITZER: But Kerry would respond -- he'll patch up relations with some traditional allies, the relationship's been somewhat rocky because of the war.

GIULIANI: Look, some of our traditional allies were wrong, if it were up to them, Saddam Hussein would be still sitting there basically terrorizing the people of Iraq. Their, sort of, approach to all this was Saddam Hussein, I guess, from their point of view, was going to age well. Well, not for the people of Iraq and not for the cause of freedom and democracy, and not for doing something about terrorism.

So you basically have some people there in Europe who have been, you know, approaching terrorism differently than the way President Bush has. They've been basically accommodating it, negotiating with it, and in my view making it worse. I mean, the attack on the Israeli team at the Munich Olympics goes back to 1972. Leon Klinghoffer was in the early 1980s. The basic approach of some, not all, of these European leaders has been to accommodate terrorism, and to essentially give it scope. President Bush announced the Bush doctrine in 2001 which is we're going to confront terrorism and we're going to deal with it.

BLITZER: One quick...

GIULIANI: And I think Senator Kerry would probably be more comfortable with the kind of approach that the Europeans have had which is why maybe he's more popular.

BLITZER: One quick question, Mr. Mayor, on those controversial ads, the Bush/Cheney campaign put out last week using the images of 9/11. Our new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows a small majority thinks it's inappropriate to use those images for political purposes. What do you say as someone who was there that day?

GIULIANI: A legitimate part of President Bush's record. I hasten to add that President Bush was there on September 14, 2001, standing with us, shaking hands with people, hugging them, giving them support at a time when it was dangerous and the Secret Service wasn't too happy about his being there. If there's anything central to George Bush's presidency it's September 11, 2001, the way in which he got our country through the worst attack in our history.

I don't know how the man can run for re-election if he's not entitled to talk about the challenges he faced. John Kerry doesn't shrink from talking about Vietnam and things like that, and those were sad, difficult times for this country. And no one criticized him for that nor should they. I think that this is a legitimate part of the president's record, and if he's going to run for re-election, he has a right to put his record in front of the American people.

BLITZER: Mr. Mayor, are you going to run for election any time soon?

GIULIANI: I'm pretty tied up right now. I'm just beginning this review of importation of drugs into the United States and the way it creates unsafe conditions for Americans and I'm tied up doing stuff in Mexico City...

BLITZER: Tied for now, Mr. Mayor, but not for long. Thanks for joining us as usual.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Wolf, see you real soon.

BLITZER: All right. Appreciate it very much.

It's believed Osama bin Laden maybe hiding out along the Afghan/Pakistani border. Some residents of that region don't like it, and get this, they're now doing something about it.

From "Seinfeld" to peace between Israelis and Palestinians, an unlikely transition, but Jason Alexander has embraced it. I'll speak with the actor about that challenge. That's coming up.

And violence erupts in Haiti again, this time U.S. marines are among those firing their weapons. There are almost 2,000 of them there. We'll tell you what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

The search for Osama bin Laden, the United States turning up the heat right now. We'll get details. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was admitted to an Ohio hospital today for treatment of severe intestinal pains. A campaign spokesman says the condition was probably the result of food poisoning. The illness is not considered serious and Kucinich is expected to remain at the Cleveland-area hospital for 24 to 48 hours.

CNN has learned surgery is likely tomorrow for the attorney general, John Ashcroft. Ashcroft is in the intensive care unit at George Washington University Hospital here in Washington where he's being treated for a severe case of gallstone pancreatitis. The Justice Department won't comment on the possibility of surgery, but Ashcroft has canceled his schedule for the entire week

The body of actor/writer Spalding Gray was found over the weekend in New York's East River. Gray, best known for autobiographical stage monologues, had battled with depression. When he walked out of his New York apartment and disappeared two months ago, suicide was suspected.

Now to Afghanistan, where the weather is warming up and so is the U.S. hunt for Osama bin Laden.

Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Pentagon officials admit they still don't know where bin Laden is, but the best guess of U.S. intelligence is in Pakistan, along the border with Afghanistan. And now Pentagon officials say there is some indications he might be planning a move.

Specifically, sources tell CNN that U.S. intelligence has found indications of a network of al Qaeda couriers and safe houses on the Afghanistan side of the border, which could be an indication that bin Laden might be planning to flee Pakistan into Afghanistan. They stress, though, there's no way to know what bin Laden is thinking, but they say he is coming under increasing pressure, not just from the Pakistani military, but from tribal forces in that ungoverned area.

The Arab network Al-Jazeera aired a video today showing some 2,000 men from a tribe in western Pakistan along the Afghan border who, under pressure from the Pakistan government, are said to have joined the hunt for al Qaeda. The U.S. believes that could put pressure on bin Laden to make a move. And while the U.S. is confident they will get bin Laden, they're not saying when. In fact, the Pentagon is anxious to keep expectations low just in case this spring offensive ends and Osama bin Laden still hasn't been captured -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- thanks, Jamie, very much.

It's taken a lot of wrangling and there have been some delays, but Iraq finally has signed an interim Constitution.

CNN Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf was there as the document was signed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Like proud parents, the U.S. administrator and British a special representative watched the ceremony unfold. First, the children, meant to grow up in democracy rather than dictatorship.

U.S.-appointed Governing Council members, after delays, disagreements and false starts, bridged their differences. With a special flourish, all signed their names and took their places in history. The signing took place against a backdrop of continuing attacks. Painful forces, the current head of the Governing Council said, trying to stop Iraq's political process.

"They forget that the will of the people is more powerful than their plans," he said. The law entrenches a federal system, a demand by Iraqi Kurds, who want to retain the power they have.

"This is the first time we Kurds feel we are citizens equal to everybody," said Massoud Barzani. He heads one of two Kurdish factions controlling Northern Iraq.

(on camera): Signing the constitution is a major accomplishment, but it's perhaps a first step. Around this table at the Governing Council, there's a lot of hard work that will still have to be done.

Not everyone believes it can be done, creating a democratic Iraq. But for a country with a history ridden in blood, this document was an occasion to celebrate. Jane Arraf, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: This time one year ago, the United States was gearing up for the invasion of Iraq. All this week, we'll be looking back at some of those pivotal events and the elements behind them.

Today, the simple idea that helped with the capture of former regime members and also became a collector's item.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Weeks before the first bombs fell on Baghdad, a group of military intelligence analysts was wondering, what's the best way to get information to battlefield troops on the Iraqi leader's most wanted by coalition forces? They'd all been in the field and knew firsthand that bored soldiers often play cards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this deck of cards is one example.

BLITZER: And that was the beginning of the famous deck of cards, 55 members of Saddam Hussein's regime, all but three assigned a card, with the Iraqi president himself the ace of spades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rewards program has been established for information leading to the capture of key leaders.

BLITZER: Unveiled April 11, the first card turned up the very next day, when the seven of diamonds, Saddam's science adviser, Amir Hamudi Hasan al-Sadi, surrendered to coalition forces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was telling the truth, always telling the truth.

BLITZER: The day after that, the five of spades, Saddam's half- brother, Watban Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti, was captured at the Syrian border. Four days later, another half-brother, Barzan Ibrahim Hasan al-Tikriti, the five of clubs, captured in Baghdad.

And on it went, one by one, top leaders of the former regime surrendering, captured or kill. Tariq Aziz, the former deputy prime minister and the eight of spades, was taken into custody April 24. He once said death was preferable to capture.

TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: To go Guantanamo? I would prefer to die.

BLITZER: Then, on July 22, a landmark. Saddam's two sons, Uday and Qusay, the ace of hearts and ace of clubs, are killed in a fierce gun battle in Mosul. A month later, the king of spades is captured, the man nicknamed Chemical Ali for his use of chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds.

But the former leader continued to allude the coalition until December, when he was found hiding in a house in Tikrit, his hometown. The ace of spades was the ace in the hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As of today, by the way, 44 of the 55 most wanted Iraqis are confirmed dead or in custody at an undisclosed location, which sources say is near the Baghdad Airport. We'll do these reports daily, what was then and what is now.

And here's your chance to weigh in on a story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: Will Iraq's new constitution help to bring about stability in the country? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

BLITZER: He's exiled in Africa, but ousted Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide is speaking out as the new interim president is sworn in in Haiti.

Plus, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ALEXANDER, ACTOR: These guys have built what is in essence a public negotiation platform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: From actor to activist. I'll speak with Jason Alexander about his recent trip to the Middle East.

And a project that took a plunge; 12 Russian scientists narrowly escape death in the Arctic -- all that coming up.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Venezuela's embattled president, Hugo Chavez, is promising a 100-year war if the United States invades his country. Mr. Chavez says Washington ousted Haitian President Jean- Bertrand Aristide and warned the U.S. against even thinking about taking similar action in Venezuela. The U.S. denies ousting Aristide and denies having any plans to oust Mr. Chavez.

A new era. Greek Conservatives are celebrating after winning parliamentary elections, ousting the Socialist Party from power. New Democracy Party leader Costas Karamanlis will form a new government.

Cricket diplomacy. India's cricket team is getting ready for its first full tour in Pakistan in 15 years. The games which begin next week are seen as a step toward normalizing relations between the two frequently quarreling neighbors.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Haiti got a new interim president today when Boniface Alexandre was sworn in at the national palace. But passions still running very, very deep; 10 people died yesterday in Port-au-Prince when gunmen opened fire on demonstrators celebrating the ouster of President Jean- Bertrand Aristide. One of the gunman was shot by U.S. Marines who used weapons for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MARK GURGANUS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I know two things about it. One, he was firing at my Marines. And, two, he was killed. I do not know who he was, and we did not recover him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Marines were back out on the streets of the capital today, rifles at the ready. The U.S. contingent in Haiti, by the way, numbers right now about 1,700.

Exile to Africa. Haiti's ousted President Aristide is speaking out right now.

CNN's Jeff Koinange is joining us live via videophone from Bangui in the Central African Republic.

Jeff, tell us what Aristide had to say.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was his first public appearance since he arrived here in Bangui exactly a year ago. And he seemed pretty calm and composed for a man in exile, a man as far away from home as one could possibly be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOINANGE (voice-over): Former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide defiant as ever, sticking to his story that he was abducted by U.S. and French forces.

JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FORMER HAITIAN PRESIDENT: Unfortunately, what happened on that night, February 28, February 29, was a kidnapping, which some call a coup d'etat. But, in fact, it's a modern way to have a kidnapping and it is the opposite of peace.

KOINANGE: Aristide, his wife and aides insist they were treated like animals during the 20-hour flight to Africa, not knowing their destination until 45 minutes before landing in the Central African Republic.

(on camera): Mr. Aristide insists he's keeping abreast of the situation in Haiti and condemned this past weekend's killings in the capital, Port-au-Prince. He also went on to say that the U.S. had predicted that law and order would prevail once he was out of picture. Instead, he says, the situation is spiraling out of control, prompting his lawyer to add that it seems like the inmates have taken over the asylum.

BRIAN CONCANNON, LAWYER FOR ARISTIDE: We have people who have been trying to overthrow the government violently for years and they are now in charge, while the democratic government is several thousand miles away.

KOINANGE: Aristide's lawyer says he wasn't allowed to see his client until today.

ARISTIDE: Now that I am far from my people, I continue to call for peace, because this is the only way we can keep order, which has to be constitutional order.

KOINANGE: While Haiti deals with uncertainty, the Aristides seem to be accepting a new home, far from their home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOINANGE: Wolf, and it will be noted, in that five-minute speech, President Aristide was basically addressing Haitians around the world. He called it peaceful resistance, but we'll note right here that he used the word peace some 33 times in those five minutes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeff Koinange reporting from the Central African Republic -- Jeff, thanks very much.

Bush administration officials, by the way, say Aristide should be grateful to the U.S. for simply being alive right now.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but George Costanza doing something in the Middle East. What exactly is he doing? A talk with the actor Jason Alexander. That's coming up next.

First, though, a look at some stories you may have missed this past weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Recovery teams are searching the near- freezing waters of Baltimore Harbor for three people still missing from a water taxi accident Saturday. At least one person was killed when the boat capsized in a sudden storm packing 50-mile-an-hour winds.

A happy ending for 12 Russian scientists who narrowly escaped death in the Arctic. The men were working at their camp on an ice floe when a large chunk of the flow disappeared beneath the sea, taking most of their meteorological station with it. They arrived in St. Petersburg yesterday to a hero's welcome.

They're off. Rookies and veterans alike kicked off the official start of the Anchorage-to-Nome Iditarod trail sled dog race in Alaska yesterday. A record 87 teams are competing. The winner gets $69,000 and a new pickup truck.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Nobody would accuse "Seinfeld"'s self-centered George Costanza of being a diplomat, but actor Jason Alexander has a world view and he is now trying to promote peace in the Middle East.

Working with a group called One Voice, he's just back from the region and spoke with me from Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jason Alexander, thanks very much for joining us. I know we could talk about a lot of funny things, but something not so funny, peace in the Middle East between Israelis, Palestinians. You were just there. What was that all about?

ALEXANDER: Well, it was a pretty amazing trip.

I went really on the invitation of this organization I've been a part of called One Voice. It's an amazing idea, Wolf. These guys have built what is in essence a public negotiation platform. They have put all the vital issues of an Israeli and Palestinian conflict agreement on proposition ballot form. And they're inviting Israeli and Palestinian people to sign on, agree to the fact that they are bound and determined to have a nonviolent resolution to this conflict, and gets their opinions where they agree on these issues, where they don't agree on these issues.

BLITZER: And this is what you want to do on the Internet, I assume. You want people to get involved on that. Is this an American organization, an Israeli organization or a Palestinian organization?

ALEXANDER: It is an offshoot of an organization call PeaceWorks, which is an American organization.

But One Voice itself is really grassroots Israelis and Palestinians. They love having the support internationally, but the actual resolution conflict is being done only by Israelis and Palestinians. If people want to find out more about it, they can go to SilentNoLonger.org. That's one word, SilentNoLonger. They'd love to have some financial support. They'd love to have world awareness. But the actual voting referendum is just Israelis and Palestinians.

BLITZER: There's a lot of groups out there. Peace Now, we've all heard about. There's a lot of pro-Israeli organizations, pro- Palestinian organizations. This group you're working with, where does it fit in on that spectrum?

ALEXANDER: Well, first of all, it's a completely neutral organization, obviously, because it's inviting dialogue from this vast, moral, moderate majority on both sides. So it is bound and determined to remain neutral.

What it's doing in not taking sides is saying, please have a dialogue, please have a voting referendum between the largest segments of both populations. What differentiates it from other attempts being made is that it is inviting the people themselves, the population themselves, to build the platform by which this peace can be established. It's not asking political leaders to do it. It's not asking anyone outside the region to do it.

And, therefore, it should have huge support once they come to a consensus.

BLITZER: Let me ask you a sensitive question. Switzerland was neutral during World War II. Is there a moral equivalency that you see between the Israeli perspective and the Palestinian perspective, because neutral to a lot of ardent supporters on either side is not necessarily good?

ALEXANDER: It's not that they're asking for neutrality of its membership of the Israelis and Palestinians. What they're saying is, in order to serve and facilitate the dialogue, the organization itself is trying very hard to remain neutral.

It is not asking for neutrality positions from anybody involved. They want Israelis and Palestinians to say, here's what we are potentially neutral about. Here's what we're not neutral about. Here's what we care vitally about and yet, still, we must come to a common referendum in order to have a peace.

BLITZER: I know you...

ALEXANDER: The neutrality is not being -- is not the key word for the participants.

BLITZER: I know you went out to the security barrier that the Israelis are building on the West Bank. What were your thoughts when you were there?

ALEXANDER: Well, I certainly drove by the partition, because, you know, it's a pretty vast partition. Some of it is literally a wall. Most of it is actually a fence.

You know, all I can tell you about it is that, obviously, barriers are built when people are in conflict. And when people are negotiating and when a common goal is being attained, these barriers come down. It would be inappropriate for me to take a position on the wall. I understand why the Israelis feel it's vital. I understand why it greatly interferes in the common day-to-day lives of many Palestinians.

BLITZER: Jason Alexander, thanks for joining us. Welcome back from the Middle East. Glad you got back safe and sound.

ALEXANDER: Thank you, Wolf. Appreciate it.

BLITZER: Bye-bye. ALEXANDER: Take care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And the results of our "Web Question of the Day" immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, though, this is not -- not -- a scientific poll.

A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern. See you again tomorrow. Among my guests, former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Giuliani>


Aired March 8, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Face off. New figures show who's in front. And the candidates trade punches.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm here to march with you in Florida, the beginning of the end of the Bush administration.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My opponent clearly has strong beliefs, they just don't last very long.

BLITZER: Probation meeting. Martha Stewart gets more bad news and more to look forward to. We'll look at life in prison.

I'll talk politics, prosecutions and more with former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Shoot-out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know two things about it. One, he was firing at my Marines. And two, he was killed.

BLITZER: From exile, Haiti's ex-president takes his own potshots.

From actor to diplomat, promoting peace on a world stage. I'll speak with "Seinfeld" star Jason Alexander.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER'S REPORTS for Monday, March 8, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The gloves are off. You might think the presidential election is tomorrow the way the president and Senator John Kerry have been going after each other today.

The president has been hammering away at Kerry at every stop in his home state of Texas. And Kerry is in the key state of Florida where he made a stunning claim about a surprising group of supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KERRY: I remember spring break. You could come down here, kick back, lay around, do nothing. The only place can you do that now is on the Bush economic team.

BLITZER (voice-over): John Kerry rallying Florida Democrats whose bad memories of the 2000 election recount are still all too fresh.

But earlier at a private fund-raiser, he made more serious allegations. In an offcamera meeting with reporters, Kerry said unnamed foreign leaders tell him they want President Bush out of office. Quote, "I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but boy, they look at you and say, You've got to win this. You got to beat this guy. We need a new policy, things like that."

Kerry mentioned no names, and we don't know who he was referring to. We do know that President Bush has had a sometimes rocky relationship with some world leaders because of the war in Iraq.

His comments trigger an immediate response from the Bush/Cheney campaign. Quote, "Kerry's foreign friends may prefer him as U.S. president. But the election is in the hands of the American people."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here he is on the victory, Senator John Kerry.

BLITZER: Wrapping up a four day southern tour today, the Democrats' top man has a tough message: the South is not Mr. Bush's for the taking. But as the president's war chest grows, Kerry aides concede, a tough road lies ahead.

AD ANNOUNCER: Massachusetts Senator John Kerry, hair style by Christoph's, $75.

BLITZER: A road made even tougher with attack ads like this one, paid for by this conservative group, Citizens United, already hitting the airwaves in Washington, D.C.

AD ANNOUNCER: Another rich, liberal, elitist from Massachusetts who claims he's a man of the people, priceless.

BLITZER: For now, Kerry enjoys a six-point lead over President Bush in Florida. "The Miami Herald"/"St. Petersburg Times" poll also has independent candidate Ralph Nader picking up 3 percent, roughly twice what he got last time around.

But November is still a long time away. And if history is any indication, Florida can't be called too soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: President Bush's offensive in Texas today has two obvious goals: hit Kerry, hit him hard, and raise more millions for an already huge campaign war chest. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is joining us with more on the president's game plan -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, President Bush spending his day in Dallas as well as Houston. When the day is said and done, he'll have raised some $3 million for his campaign. Of course, jump starting the first full week of campaigning before very friendly audiences where he enjoys a tremendous amount of support.

In listening to his stump speech, his strategy is very obvious. And that is to define his opponent in the most critical light, to defend his own record as well as shape the debate. And the main message, the key theme, of course, here is President Bush saying that he is a leader. You may not like his decisions but he has the courage to make the tough choices he says Senator Kerry does not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Senator Kerry voted for the PATRIOT Act, for NAFTA, for the No Child Left Behind Act and for the use of force in Iraq. Now he opposes the PATRIOT Act, NAFTA, the No Child Left Behind Act and the liberation of Iraq.

My opponent clearly has strong beliefs, they just don't last very long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And President Bush is not backing down from using September 11 tragedy as part of the campaign. He argues that that tragedy taught him a very important lesson. There if there are threats against the United States, the American people that he will meet those threats.

Should also let you know, Wolf, as well later in the day he will be at that livestock as well as rodeo show that is in Houston. There is expected to be more than a million people attending that event. And of course President Bush will be doing a lot of handshaking -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at White House. Thanks, Suzanne, very much.

So far President Bush's fierce attacks on Kerry do not appear to be causing much damage. The latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows that Kerry still faces a very tough road to the White House. Joining us with more on this new poll, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.

Let's take a look, Bill, at some numbers, we'll put them up on the screen. Likely voters, their choice for president. Take look at this. Kerry, 52 percent, Bush 44 percent. Four points sampling error. What's going on here?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It shows Kerry is starting out with a slight lead. It's just within the margin of error. And by no means going to be a runaway for either candidate most likely.

You put Ralph Nader in the list and what happens? He gets 2 percent. Very small vote. But that 2 percent would come entirely from John Kerry, which is why Democrats are worried about the Nader factor in states that are close.

BLITZER: States that are close, that 2 percent could easily be decisive once again.

Let's take a look at another poll. Even though Kerry is ahead of Bush among likely voters, when you ask likely voters who do they think will win, look at this. Bush come out on top with 52 percent to Kerry's 42 percent.

SCHNEIDER: And what that means is while a lot of people, a majority of people say they're going to vote for Kerry, they think other people are not. So a lot of people say I'm going to vote for him but you know my friends and neighbors are going to vote for Bush. They expect Bush to win.

BLITZER: Very important who Kerry will pick as his vice presidential running mate. Let's put other numbers up on the screen right now. Look at this. Among the people we questioned, the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, John Edwards gets 30 percent compared to everybody else in single digits. Isn't that surprising?

SCHNEIDER: No, he's the best known, he did creditably well in the primaries. He won one primary and is widely applauded for his campaign style. He has a populist economic message. He's the most popular choice among Democrat.

Will he get it? Well, Kerry's got to make a political decision. Will he help Kerry win? You'll notice that almost half, 47 percent said they were not sure. This is not their decision, it's John Kerry's decision.

BLITZER: John Kerry has to feel comfortable with his running mate.

And look at this number as far as those controversial ads that the Bush/Cheney campaign released last week that used the images of 9/11. Appropriate, 42 percent. Inappropriate, 54 percent. Do you think that's going to convince the Bush/Cheney campaign to stop using the images?

SCHNEIDER: No, the president said he intends to run on 9/11. Look, that was the defining moment of his presidency. If he doesn't run on 9/11, he ain't going to win. He's got to use it very carefully, is what this poll says. He can't appear to be exploiting a tragedy or offending the families involved.

But for George Bush, the moment he lifted up the megaphone and said, I can hear, you can you hear me and the people who did this are going to pay, that, he has to show, is the most important moment of his presidency.

BLITZER: Bill Schneider, as usual, crunching the number for us. Thanks, Bill, very much.

Much more coming up. Martha Stewart's conviction likely to lead to at least some time in a federal prison. What will a potential prison sentence be like for the home making maven? We'll show you.

He helped bring down organized crime in New York. I'll ask the former mayor, the former U.S. attorney, Rudy Giuliani his thoughts on Martha Stewart's conviction and more. He'll speak with us live.

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ALEXANDER, ACTOR: It is inviting the people themselves, the population themselves to build the platform by which this piece can be established.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He's known as the scheming George Costanza from "Seinfeld" but in real life Jason Alexander right now trying to create peace in the Middle East. I'll ask him how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Martha Stewart today spoke publicly for the first time since her conviction of lying about a stock sale. It happened just after a probation meeting in New York City, the first step toward her sentencing in June. CNN's Mary Snow is in New York with more -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, Martha Stewart had two things to attend to today. Her business empire and also the sentence she will ultimately face in June and today, she began the first round of that sentencing process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Martha Stewart returned to federal court. This time a convicted criminal. She reported to the probation office for about an hour. Leaving the courthouse, Stewart spoke publicly for the first time since her conviction. Holding an umbrella bearing the namesake of her company, "it's a very good company" is what she said. Getting into a car she said, quote, "I want to thank my readers, my viewers, and the Internet users. I just want to thank everyone for their support."

Stewart's meeting is the first step in the process leading up to her sentencing on June 17. Legal experts expect the sentence to be in the range of 10 and 18 months and things like acceptance of responsibility can be taken into consideration.

IRA SORKIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: If you show contrition and you show that you're sorry and you show that you regret what you did in a sincere and honest way in the eyes of the judge, that's going to count to getting a lesser sentence.

SNOW: Stewart's legal problems are one part of her battle. Her business is the other. Her television show was canceled on both CBS and UPN, and a person close to Stewart's situation says her main focus right now isn't so much on her legal troubles but the future of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia, a company built on the Martha Stewart brand and one in which she owns a majority stake.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: We're told that the board of directors of Martha Stewart Living Omnimedia was scheduled to meet this afternoon. But a spokesperson for the company was unable to be reached. But on Friday, the company did say that the board of directors would meet promptly to carefully evaluate the situation and take actions as appropriate. Also, Wolf, the stock of the company sliding for a second day today, down 9 percent -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mary Snow in New York. Thanks, Mary, very much. Considering that Martha Stewart is a first-time offender should she be sentenced to prison at all? That's one of the questions on the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. Check it out. Look at this. 53 percent said yes. 40 percent said no. Experts say Stewart will likely spend between 10 and 18 months in prison, but will it be hard time or soft time? CNN's Brian Todd looks at what her life behind bars might look like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All jokes aside about thread count and color scheme, prison life for Martha Stewart has a range of possibilities, depending where she goes and who you talk to who's been there.

SUSAN MCDOUGAL, FORMER INMATE: Every room you walk into in a federal institution is a fearful place.

TODD: Some more fearful than others. If Stewart goes to prison, some predict she'll end up at a federal prison camp like the one at Alderson (ph), West Virginia, or the camp adjacent to the federal correction institution at Danbury, Connecticut, now housing less than 200 women.

PAUL CALLAN, FMR. PROSECUTOR: Most of these prisons, and Danbury is an example of it, I guess you can compare them to an elementary school that was built maybe in the 1960s surrounded by barbed wire. They tend to be sort of spartan surroundings, you know, a lot of cinder block. Prisoners put two to a cubicle frequently. You know, there are some -- you can watch television and there are some facilities, there is gardening and cooking and things like that that she can do. But it's a very spartan existence.

TODD: Still in some places Danbury looks like Martha Stewart's been there. Interior pictures are hard to come by, but an official at the U.S. Bureau of Prisons tell us generally these camps are like open dormitories, with rows of bunks and community bathrooms with banks of showers and commodes. A typical day at most camps, inmates are up by about 6:00 a.m., breakfast shortly thereafter. Just after 7:30 a.m., it's off to work.

FOSTER WYNANS, FORMER DANBURY INMATE: My advice to Martha would be to get herself a mop. There are jobs in the kitchen, there are jobs that -- some of the facilities have factories that produce things for the federal government.

TODD: Picture Martha Stewart as an orderly, food server, plumber, painter, or groundskeeper. The workday ends 3:30, head count at 4:00, dinner at 5:00. Some recreation time at 8:30. Lights out by 11:30. People who've served time either at the camps or the low to medium security women's prisons say the term Club Fed is a myth.

KAREN BOND, FMR. INMATE: For Heaven's sakes learn not to speak your mind when you get to prison if you end up there.

SUSAN MCDOUGAL: FMR. INMATE: When she gets there be there will be people waiting to help her, and there will be people waiting to give her a very hard time.

TODD: A hard time for a household name no matter where she goes. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Prosecuting organized crime, so what does Rudy Giuliani think about Martha Stewart's conviction? I'll speak with the former New York City mayor about her case and much more.

They've been used for almost a year to help coalition forces track down Iraq's most wanted. We'll look at which cards have folded. Plus he's the biggest fish left, now the hunt for Osama bin Laden is gaining a brand-new weapon. We have details when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Joining us to talk more about the Martha Stewart case and other issues in the news today, the former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, always welcome here on our program.

RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you for joining us. Give us your thoughts when you heard that Martha Stewart was convicted. What went through your mind?

GIULIANI: Well, you know, actually following it somewhat, I wasn't surprised, particularly by those jury questions about the elements of the crime and it seemed like it was headed in that direction. I was surprised it was on every count because it seemed like a closer -- somewhat of a closer case to me than that. But I learned a long time ago that you basically can't predict jury verdicts, and once they happen, you have to respect them.

BLITZER: You speak not only as a former mayor of New York, but as a former federal prosecutor of the U.S. attorney in New York. So you know a lot about this so you had your share, you prosecuted a bunch of white collar criminals, Michael Milken's name comes to mind. Was this worth the taxpayer's expense to spend all this money to prosecute Martha Stewart? She was never charged with actual insider trading. GIULIANI: I think the jury probably has vindicated the government's decision to bring the case, right? It was our system, it was tried before a group of 12 people, they unanimously found her guilty on every count. So although there was some debate about the wisdom of the prosecution, that kind of underscores it in about the strongest way possible.

BLITZER: I've been getting lots of e-mail from women saying the only reason they went after her the way they did, the obstruction of justice, the lying, was because she's a high-powered high-profile woman. If it would have been a man, they would have left her alone.

GIULIANI: That isn't the way things work in the Justice Department of the United States attorney's office. They really do work based on -- as best they can, neutral applications of the law. And again, if you credit the jury's verdict as we must, misrepresenting to the government is a -- something the government takes very seriously, particularly about this kind of transaction. So I think you have to say that anybody in that position would be subject to prosecution. That's one of the reasons that defense lawyers keep telling you you shouldn't go talk to the government unless you have immunity.

BLITZER: You know something about what she could expect at a federal prison, even a minimum security prison. What can she expect?

GIULIANI: Federal prison is not pleasant. This whole idea -- I saw you have the piece on before about Club Fed and all that. Nobody wants to go to prison, and it's a very, very difficult thing. Someone like Martha Stewart, prison has to be a nightmare for her, but the beauty of our system is that the judge, Judge Cederbaum is appointed for life.

There's nothing at all political about the decision she's going to make, it's going to be made based on that probation report where the options by the guidelines probably require some jail time, but she can vary it, and write an opinion, and actually give no time at all or even give more time than the guidelines provide, so the judge has ultimate discretion here, and Martha Stewart is very lucky. She's got a judge that is a very, very fair judge who's going to end up making this decision, I think, based on whatever the probation report says.

BLITZER: Let's talk about presidential politics a little bit. You're a big supporter of President Bush, Vice President Cheney. John Kerry today said this, let me read it to you, I'll put it up on the screen. He said, "I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly but, boy, they look at you and say, you've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy. We need a new policy. Things like that so there's enormous energy out there." What do you make of this statement?

GIULIANI: I don't know, I think that's a pretty good President Bush campaign ad. Foreign leaders want somebody else. Given the fact, given the fact that the president has put the best interest of the United States first, it's pretty clear that some other countries don't put the best interest of the United States first. I think the fact that maybe they'd like a little less heat off them is actually an argument for the good kind of leadership the president has provided.

BLITZER: But Kerry would respond -- he'll patch up relations with some traditional allies, the relationship's been somewhat rocky because of the war.

GIULIANI: Look, some of our traditional allies were wrong, if it were up to them, Saddam Hussein would be still sitting there basically terrorizing the people of Iraq. Their, sort of, approach to all this was Saddam Hussein, I guess, from their point of view, was going to age well. Well, not for the people of Iraq and not for the cause of freedom and democracy, and not for doing something about terrorism.

So you basically have some people there in Europe who have been, you know, approaching terrorism differently than the way President Bush has. They've been basically accommodating it, negotiating with it, and in my view making it worse. I mean, the attack on the Israeli team at the Munich Olympics goes back to 1972. Leon Klinghoffer was in the early 1980s. The basic approach of some, not all, of these European leaders has been to accommodate terrorism, and to essentially give it scope. President Bush announced the Bush doctrine in 2001 which is we're going to confront terrorism and we're going to deal with it.

BLITZER: One quick...

GIULIANI: And I think Senator Kerry would probably be more comfortable with the kind of approach that the Europeans have had which is why maybe he's more popular.

BLITZER: One quick question, Mr. Mayor, on those controversial ads, the Bush/Cheney campaign put out last week using the images of 9/11. Our new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll shows a small majority thinks it's inappropriate to use those images for political purposes. What do you say as someone who was there that day?

GIULIANI: A legitimate part of President Bush's record. I hasten to add that President Bush was there on September 14, 2001, standing with us, shaking hands with people, hugging them, giving them support at a time when it was dangerous and the Secret Service wasn't too happy about his being there. If there's anything central to George Bush's presidency it's September 11, 2001, the way in which he got our country through the worst attack in our history.

I don't know how the man can run for re-election if he's not entitled to talk about the challenges he faced. John Kerry doesn't shrink from talking about Vietnam and things like that, and those were sad, difficult times for this country. And no one criticized him for that nor should they. I think that this is a legitimate part of the president's record, and if he's going to run for re-election, he has a right to put his record in front of the American people.

BLITZER: Mr. Mayor, are you going to run for election any time soon?

GIULIANI: I'm pretty tied up right now. I'm just beginning this review of importation of drugs into the United States and the way it creates unsafe conditions for Americans and I'm tied up doing stuff in Mexico City...

BLITZER: Tied for now, Mr. Mayor, but not for long. Thanks for joining us as usual.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Wolf, see you real soon.

BLITZER: All right. Appreciate it very much.

It's believed Osama bin Laden maybe hiding out along the Afghan/Pakistani border. Some residents of that region don't like it, and get this, they're now doing something about it.

From "Seinfeld" to peace between Israelis and Palestinians, an unlikely transition, but Jason Alexander has embraced it. I'll speak with the actor about that challenge. That's coming up.

And violence erupts in Haiti again, this time U.S. marines are among those firing their weapons. There are almost 2,000 of them there. We'll tell you what's going on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN.

The search for Osama bin Laden, the United States turning up the heat right now. We'll get details. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was admitted to an Ohio hospital today for treatment of severe intestinal pains. A campaign spokesman says the condition was probably the result of food poisoning. The illness is not considered serious and Kucinich is expected to remain at the Cleveland-area hospital for 24 to 48 hours.

CNN has learned surgery is likely tomorrow for the attorney general, John Ashcroft. Ashcroft is in the intensive care unit at George Washington University Hospital here in Washington where he's being treated for a severe case of gallstone pancreatitis. The Justice Department won't comment on the possibility of surgery, but Ashcroft has canceled his schedule for the entire week

The body of actor/writer Spalding Gray was found over the weekend in New York's East River. Gray, best known for autobiographical stage monologues, had battled with depression. When he walked out of his New York apartment and disappeared two months ago, suicide was suspected.

Now to Afghanistan, where the weather is warming up and so is the U.S. hunt for Osama bin Laden.

Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Pentagon officials admit they still don't know where bin Laden is, but the best guess of U.S. intelligence is in Pakistan, along the border with Afghanistan. And now Pentagon officials say there is some indications he might be planning a move.

Specifically, sources tell CNN that U.S. intelligence has found indications of a network of al Qaeda couriers and safe houses on the Afghanistan side of the border, which could be an indication that bin Laden might be planning to flee Pakistan into Afghanistan. They stress, though, there's no way to know what bin Laden is thinking, but they say he is coming under increasing pressure, not just from the Pakistani military, but from tribal forces in that ungoverned area.

The Arab network Al-Jazeera aired a video today showing some 2,000 men from a tribe in western Pakistan along the Afghan border who, under pressure from the Pakistan government, are said to have joined the hunt for al Qaeda. The U.S. believes that could put pressure on bin Laden to make a move. And while the U.S. is confident they will get bin Laden, they're not saying when. In fact, the Pentagon is anxious to keep expectations low just in case this spring offensive ends and Osama bin Laden still hasn't been captured -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- thanks, Jamie, very much.

It's taken a lot of wrangling and there have been some delays, but Iraq finally has signed an interim Constitution.

CNN Baghdad bureau chief Jane Arraf was there as the document was signed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Like proud parents, the U.S. administrator and British a special representative watched the ceremony unfold. First, the children, meant to grow up in democracy rather than dictatorship.

U.S.-appointed Governing Council members, after delays, disagreements and false starts, bridged their differences. With a special flourish, all signed their names and took their places in history. The signing took place against a backdrop of continuing attacks. Painful forces, the current head of the Governing Council said, trying to stop Iraq's political process.

"They forget that the will of the people is more powerful than their plans," he said. The law entrenches a federal system, a demand by Iraqi Kurds, who want to retain the power they have.

"This is the first time we Kurds feel we are citizens equal to everybody," said Massoud Barzani. He heads one of two Kurdish factions controlling Northern Iraq.

(on camera): Signing the constitution is a major accomplishment, but it's perhaps a first step. Around this table at the Governing Council, there's a lot of hard work that will still have to be done.

Not everyone believes it can be done, creating a democratic Iraq. But for a country with a history ridden in blood, this document was an occasion to celebrate. Jane Arraf, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: This time one year ago, the United States was gearing up for the invasion of Iraq. All this week, we'll be looking back at some of those pivotal events and the elements behind them.

Today, the simple idea that helped with the capture of former regime members and also became a collector's item.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Weeks before the first bombs fell on Baghdad, a group of military intelligence analysts was wondering, what's the best way to get information to battlefield troops on the Iraqi leader's most wanted by coalition forces? They'd all been in the field and knew firsthand that bored soldiers often play cards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this deck of cards is one example.

BLITZER: And that was the beginning of the famous deck of cards, 55 members of Saddam Hussein's regime, all but three assigned a card, with the Iraqi president himself the ace of spades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A rewards program has been established for information leading to the capture of key leaders.

BLITZER: Unveiled April 11, the first card turned up the very next day, when the seven of diamonds, Saddam's science adviser, Amir Hamudi Hasan al-Sadi, surrendered to coalition forces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was telling the truth, always telling the truth.

BLITZER: The day after that, the five of spades, Saddam's half- brother, Watban Ibrahim Hassan al-Tikriti, was captured at the Syrian border. Four days later, another half-brother, Barzan Ibrahim Hasan al-Tikriti, the five of clubs, captured in Baghdad.

And on it went, one by one, top leaders of the former regime surrendering, captured or kill. Tariq Aziz, the former deputy prime minister and the eight of spades, was taken into custody April 24. He once said death was preferable to capture.

TARIQ AZIZ, IRAQI DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: To go Guantanamo? I would prefer to die.

BLITZER: Then, on July 22, a landmark. Saddam's two sons, Uday and Qusay, the ace of hearts and ace of clubs, are killed in a fierce gun battle in Mosul. A month later, the king of spades is captured, the man nicknamed Chemical Ali for his use of chemical weapons on Iraqi Kurds.

But the former leader continued to allude the coalition until December, when he was found hiding in a house in Tikrit, his hometown. The ace of spades was the ace in the hole.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As of today, by the way, 44 of the 55 most wanted Iraqis are confirmed dead or in custody at an undisclosed location, which sources say is near the Baghdad Airport. We'll do these reports daily, what was then and what is now.

And here's your chance to weigh in on a story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: Will Iraq's new constitution help to bring about stability in the country? You can vote. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

BLITZER: He's exiled in Africa, but ousted Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide is speaking out as the new interim president is sworn in in Haiti.

Plus, this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JASON ALEXANDER, ACTOR: These guys have built what is in essence a public negotiation platform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: From actor to activist. I'll speak with Jason Alexander about his recent trip to the Middle East.

And a project that took a plunge; 12 Russian scientists narrowly escape death in the Arctic -- all that coming up.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Venezuela's embattled president, Hugo Chavez, is promising a 100-year war if the United States invades his country. Mr. Chavez says Washington ousted Haitian President Jean- Bertrand Aristide and warned the U.S. against even thinking about taking similar action in Venezuela. The U.S. denies ousting Aristide and denies having any plans to oust Mr. Chavez.

A new era. Greek Conservatives are celebrating after winning parliamentary elections, ousting the Socialist Party from power. New Democracy Party leader Costas Karamanlis will form a new government.

Cricket diplomacy. India's cricket team is getting ready for its first full tour in Pakistan in 15 years. The games which begin next week are seen as a step toward normalizing relations between the two frequently quarreling neighbors.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Haiti got a new interim president today when Boniface Alexandre was sworn in at the national palace. But passions still running very, very deep; 10 people died yesterday in Port-au-Prince when gunmen opened fire on demonstrators celebrating the ouster of President Jean- Bertrand Aristide. One of the gunman was shot by U.S. Marines who used weapons for the first time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COL. MARK GURGANUS, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I know two things about it. One, he was firing at my Marines. And, two, he was killed. I do not know who he was, and we did not recover him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The Marines were back out on the streets of the capital today, rifles at the ready. The U.S. contingent in Haiti, by the way, numbers right now about 1,700.

Exile to Africa. Haiti's ousted President Aristide is speaking out right now.

CNN's Jeff Koinange is joining us live via videophone from Bangui in the Central African Republic.

Jeff, tell us what Aristide had to say.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was his first public appearance since he arrived here in Bangui exactly a year ago. And he seemed pretty calm and composed for a man in exile, a man as far away from home as one could possibly be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOINANGE (voice-over): Former Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide defiant as ever, sticking to his story that he was abducted by U.S. and French forces.

JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE, FORMER HAITIAN PRESIDENT: Unfortunately, what happened on that night, February 28, February 29, was a kidnapping, which some call a coup d'etat. But, in fact, it's a modern way to have a kidnapping and it is the opposite of peace.

KOINANGE: Aristide, his wife and aides insist they were treated like animals during the 20-hour flight to Africa, not knowing their destination until 45 minutes before landing in the Central African Republic.

(on camera): Mr. Aristide insists he's keeping abreast of the situation in Haiti and condemned this past weekend's killings in the capital, Port-au-Prince. He also went on to say that the U.S. had predicted that law and order would prevail once he was out of picture. Instead, he says, the situation is spiraling out of control, prompting his lawyer to add that it seems like the inmates have taken over the asylum.

BRIAN CONCANNON, LAWYER FOR ARISTIDE: We have people who have been trying to overthrow the government violently for years and they are now in charge, while the democratic government is several thousand miles away.

KOINANGE: Aristide's lawyer says he wasn't allowed to see his client until today.

ARISTIDE: Now that I am far from my people, I continue to call for peace, because this is the only way we can keep order, which has to be constitutional order.

KOINANGE: While Haiti deals with uncertainty, the Aristides seem to be accepting a new home, far from their home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOINANGE: Wolf, and it will be noted, in that five-minute speech, President Aristide was basically addressing Haitians around the world. He called it peaceful resistance, but we'll note right here that he used the word peace some 33 times in those five minutes -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Jeff Koinange reporting from the Central African Republic -- Jeff, thanks very much.

Bush administration officials, by the way, say Aristide should be grateful to the U.S. for simply being alive right now.

Not that there's anything wrong with it, but George Costanza doing something in the Middle East. What exactly is he doing? A talk with the actor Jason Alexander. That's coming up next.

First, though, a look at some stories you may have missed this past weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Recovery teams are searching the near- freezing waters of Baltimore Harbor for three people still missing from a water taxi accident Saturday. At least one person was killed when the boat capsized in a sudden storm packing 50-mile-an-hour winds.

A happy ending for 12 Russian scientists who narrowly escaped death in the Arctic. The men were working at their camp on an ice floe when a large chunk of the flow disappeared beneath the sea, taking most of their meteorological station with it. They arrived in St. Petersburg yesterday to a hero's welcome.

They're off. Rookies and veterans alike kicked off the official start of the Anchorage-to-Nome Iditarod trail sled dog race in Alaska yesterday. A record 87 teams are competing. The winner gets $69,000 and a new pickup truck.

And that's our weekend snapshot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Nobody would accuse "Seinfeld"'s self-centered George Costanza of being a diplomat, but actor Jason Alexander has a world view and he is now trying to promote peace in the Middle East.

Working with a group called One Voice, he's just back from the region and spoke with me from Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Jason Alexander, thanks very much for joining us. I know we could talk about a lot of funny things, but something not so funny, peace in the Middle East between Israelis, Palestinians. You were just there. What was that all about?

ALEXANDER: Well, it was a pretty amazing trip.

I went really on the invitation of this organization I've been a part of called One Voice. It's an amazing idea, Wolf. These guys have built what is in essence a public negotiation platform. They have put all the vital issues of an Israeli and Palestinian conflict agreement on proposition ballot form. And they're inviting Israeli and Palestinian people to sign on, agree to the fact that they are bound and determined to have a nonviolent resolution to this conflict, and gets their opinions where they agree on these issues, where they don't agree on these issues.

BLITZER: And this is what you want to do on the Internet, I assume. You want people to get involved on that. Is this an American organization, an Israeli organization or a Palestinian organization?

ALEXANDER: It is an offshoot of an organization call PeaceWorks, which is an American organization.

But One Voice itself is really grassroots Israelis and Palestinians. They love having the support internationally, but the actual resolution conflict is being done only by Israelis and Palestinians. If people want to find out more about it, they can go to SilentNoLonger.org. That's one word, SilentNoLonger. They'd love to have some financial support. They'd love to have world awareness. But the actual voting referendum is just Israelis and Palestinians.

BLITZER: There's a lot of groups out there. Peace Now, we've all heard about. There's a lot of pro-Israeli organizations, pro- Palestinian organizations. This group you're working with, where does it fit in on that spectrum?

ALEXANDER: Well, first of all, it's a completely neutral organization, obviously, because it's inviting dialogue from this vast, moral, moderate majority on both sides. So it is bound and determined to remain neutral.

What it's doing in not taking sides is saying, please have a dialogue, please have a voting referendum between the largest segments of both populations. What differentiates it from other attempts being made is that it is inviting the people themselves, the population themselves, to build the platform by which this peace can be established. It's not asking political leaders to do it. It's not asking anyone outside the region to do it.

And, therefore, it should have huge support once they come to a consensus.

BLITZER: Let me ask you a sensitive question. Switzerland was neutral during World War II. Is there a moral equivalency that you see between the Israeli perspective and the Palestinian perspective, because neutral to a lot of ardent supporters on either side is not necessarily good?

ALEXANDER: It's not that they're asking for neutrality of its membership of the Israelis and Palestinians. What they're saying is, in order to serve and facilitate the dialogue, the organization itself is trying very hard to remain neutral.

It is not asking for neutrality positions from anybody involved. They want Israelis and Palestinians to say, here's what we are potentially neutral about. Here's what we're not neutral about. Here's what we care vitally about and yet, still, we must come to a common referendum in order to have a peace.

BLITZER: I know you...

ALEXANDER: The neutrality is not being -- is not the key word for the participants.

BLITZER: I know you went out to the security barrier that the Israelis are building on the West Bank. What were your thoughts when you were there?

ALEXANDER: Well, I certainly drove by the partition, because, you know, it's a pretty vast partition. Some of it is literally a wall. Most of it is actually a fence.

You know, all I can tell you about it is that, obviously, barriers are built when people are in conflict. And when people are negotiating and when a common goal is being attained, these barriers come down. It would be inappropriate for me to take a position on the wall. I understand why the Israelis feel it's vital. I understand why it greatly interferes in the common day-to-day lives of many Palestinians.

BLITZER: Jason Alexander, thanks for joining us. Welcome back from the Middle East. Glad you got back safe and sound.

ALEXANDER: Thank you, Wolf. Appreciate it.

BLITZER: Bye-bye. ALEXANDER: Take care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And the results of our "Web Question of the Day" immediately when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, though, this is not -- not -- a scientific poll.

A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern. See you again tomorrow. Among my guests, former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Giuliani>