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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Insurgents Take over Portions of Iraqi Cities; Condi Rice Testifies Before 9/11 Commission

Aired April 08, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening right now, a terrifying new twist in Iraq. Get this, civilians from other countries are being taken hostage, the abductors threatening to burn them alive. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Going public, Condoleezza rice stands her ground.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

BLITZER: But did a secret White House memo warn of such attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were willing to declassify that document, then others can make up their minds about it.

BLITZER: I'll speak with two members of the 9/11 Commission.

The fight for Iraq. U.S. Troops are attacking on several fronts, but they're under fire everywhere, and the casualties are mounting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a hell of a boy. There will be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long time.

BLITZER: Held hostage. For noncombatants in Iraq, there is a deadly new threat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Thursday, April 8th, 2004.

BLITZER: We'll have complete coverage of Condoleezza Rice's testimony today, up on Capitol Hill.

But first we want to go to some important developments happening right now in Iraq. Fierce fighting between coalition forces and enemies old and new. Sunni insurgents and since the weekend, a banned Shiite militia. Military officials are announcing new casual today as well. Two U.S. Marines and three U.S. Army soldiers killed in the last two days. There was also one very, very close call. You might find the video you're about to see rather disturbing.

Here is CNN's Jim Clancy in Baghdad. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fallujah, a flash point in the Sunni triangle and the sight of at least a dozen U.S. deaths this week. Coalition planes pounded more targets today, Marines described the fighting as moderate but it is still a battlefield. In another part of town, a marine tank hit by a rocket propelled grenade. They are wounded but all on board escaped. Military officials say none of the injuries is life threatening. U.S. forces are confident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are fighting us. When he fights us and chooses to stand and fight, we're killing him. When he runs, he usually abandons his gear and we recover it.

CLANCY: In Iraq's second largest city, the southern town of Basra, authorities say an attack on British soldiers left two wounded along with one Iraqi. Two suspects were captured. Elsewhere the banned militia let by radical Shia Muslim cleric Muqtada Al Sadr has at least partial control of the southern cities of Kufa, Kut and the central part of Najaf, that's where Sadr is believed to be holed up in the shadow of one of Shia Islam's holiest sites. He also has strong support in Baghdad in a neighborhood named after his assassinated father. Coalition forces moved in and destroyed his office in Sadr City on Wednesday saying it was being used as an operations base for his militia.

In an exclusive interview, a Sadr spokesman told CNN he's tried to negotiate with the coalition to no avail. He says the Iraqi people are attacking Americans in retaliation. He called on the coalition to, in his words, remove your tanks and stop raising your weapons. Another hot spot, Karbala, south of Baghdad. Polish and Ukrainian soldiers battled overnight with Shia fighters there, a hotel was burned to the ground. Eventually according to a Polish spokesman, the attackers were driven off.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: There are also appears to be an ominous new tactic in the Iraq conflict, foreigners are being taken hostage. Insurgents are hold league Japanese hostages and two Israeli Arabs.

Our senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Shown here, three Japanese taken hostage. Other videos shows them being manhandled and humiliated and threatened with guns and knives, obviously for the benefit of the camera. The Japanese government has been given three days to pull its troops out of the American sponsored coalition in Iraq or a shadowy group calling itself the Mujahedeen Squadrons threatens to burn the Japanese hostages alive. In another incident, two Israeli Arabs, Palestinian aid workers, were also seized and seven Korean Christian missionaries were also taken hostage by Islamic militants. They were later released.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And sheer some reaction to these kidnappings in Iraq, despite the demands of the group that says it is holding three Japanese citizens, the Japanese government says it has no plans to pull its nearly 1,000 troops out of Iraq. One Israeli cabinet official said if there is any effort by his government to rescue the Israeli Arab captives could actually wind up in endangering them.

Let's move on to that major development in the 9/11 investigation. The Bush administration fighting hard to keep her out of the hot seat, but after damaging testimony by a former counterterrorism adviser and strong public pressure, the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice appeared today before the panel investigating the 9/11 terror attacks in public and under oath.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

RICE: I do.

BLITZER (voice-over): And with that, Condoleezza Rice delivered a carefully worded 25 minute opening statement with this bottom line.

RICE: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

BLITZER: Unlike her former counterterrorism deputy Richard Clarke, she did not formally apologize to the families of the 9/11 victims. Some of whom were in the audience. She strongly defended President Bush's record in the months leading up to 9/11, but acknowledged that long-standing legal barriers preventing the FBI and CIA from communicating with each other were a key problem.

RICE: In hindsight if anything might have helped stop 9/11, it would have been better information about threats inside the United States.

BLITZER: Changes did not occur until after 9/11. During the occasionally acrimonious questioning, she repeatedly denied that she and the president had been negligent in ignoring the al Qaeda terror threat. Still, she disclosed that the U.S. intelligence community had intercepted communications from al Qaeda suspects during the summer of 2001 that included these words.

RICE: Unbelievable news coming in weeks. Big event. There will be a very, very, very big uproar. There will be attacks in the near future. Troubling, yes, but they don't tell us when, they don't tell us where, they don't us who, and they don't tell us how. BLITZER: Democratic commissioners pressed hardest for her to concede that the president and his administration could and should have done more.

BOB KERREY, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Said the president was tired of swatting flies. Can you tell me one example where the president swatted a fly when it came to al Qaeda prior to 9/11.

RICE: I think that president was speaking to...

KERREY: No, what fly had he swatted?

RICE: Well, the disruptions abroad was what he was really focusing on. When the CIA would go after this guy and...

(CROSSTALK)

KERREY: Dr. Rice, we only swatted a fly once on the 20th of August, 1998, we didn't swat any flies afterwards. How the hell could he be tired?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Did you tell the president at anytime prior to August 6th of the existence of al Qaeda cells in the United States?

RICE: I really don't remember, commissioner, whether I discussed this with the president.

BLITZER: August 6th is significant because it was on that day, while the president was on vacation in Crawford, Texas, when Rice says, the CIA briefed the president on al Qaeda. And in that highly classified CIA briefing entitled bin Laden, determined to attack inside the United States, there were, Rice admitted, references to earlier warnings of al Qaeda plans to hijack passenger airliners. She says the warnings were not specific and that the briefing did not raise the possibility that terrorists would use airplanes as missiles. What about right now? Dr. Rice says this and I'm quoting, "I really believe that we have hurt the al Qaeda network, that is. We have not destroyed it."

And here is your chance to weigh in on this important story, our "Web Question of the Day" is this, should the August 6th intelligence memo to President Bush be discussed by the 9/11 commission be declassified?

You can vote right now. Go cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results a little bit later in this broadcast. The White House suggesting they're taking a very close look at that memo now to see if it can be declassified.

They lost their loved ones on 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't believe we'll get to the absolute truth. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Relatives of the victims react to Condoleezza Rice, and this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 8:30 in the evening two United States Marines Corp officers came here and informed us that my son had delivered the ultimate for is country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Beyond the numbers, the real human toll on the ground and at home.

Plus, a key critic says it is time for President Bush to call for help in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Many families of 9/11 victims have pushed for public testimony by Condoleezza Rice. How do they feel now that she's actually appeared in public before the commission? CNN's Sean Callebs has reaction from some relatives. What are they saying, Sean?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Wolf, for those who arguably lost most on 9/11, those who lost family and loved ones, this was an important day. A member of the president's inner circle talking about what the administration knew and when. It was a chance to have their faith in the administration renewed or undermined.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARIE LEMACK, RELATIVE OF 9/11 VICTIM: I think we got more information from the questions themselves than from the answers I think she was pretty evasive. One thing we heard overwhelmingly was that she didn't take action. We know that Mr. Clarke gave her a lot of warnings. She read some of the warnings in her written testimony, but she kept saying that she didn't have a plan, no one told her what to do. I would say I thought that was her job, was to figure out what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Carie LeMack, I talked to her a couple of hours ago. She sat through three hours of emotional ups and downs in the Hart Building. She said she left wanting more. Deborah Burlingame, whose brother Charles was a pilot on one of the flights, was also in the audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BURLINGGAME, RELATIVE OF 9/11 VICTIM: I was very satisfied. I was very impressed with what Dr. Rice had to say. I think she made it very clear that the spike in threats that they were getting in the summer of 2001 concerned American interests abroad, foreign interests abroad.

In other words, troops, embassies, that's what they were looking at and that's what her colleague Dick Clarke was talking about. The information they were get getting about domestic stuff dated way, way back to...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Three hours of testimony in the end, satisfaction for some 9/11 families. But Wolf, for others, the frustration and the pain does continue.

BLITZER: I suspect it will never go away. Thanks very much, Sean, for that report.

Far from Iraq, but too close to the pain of war...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a wonderful boy. There is going to be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Families trying to cope with the ultimate loss after tragic news is delivered at their home.

The star witness takes the stand, reaction to Condoleezza Rice's testimony. Hear from the White House and Democratic Senator Evan Bayh, both will be coming up. Dan Bartlett, the White House Communications Director, will join us.

On the hunt for al Qaeda, Pakistani troops preparing right now to make a new move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Dramatic testimony by Dr. Condoleezza Rice on Capitol Hill today. Also, startling developments in Iraq. Let's bring in Senator Evan Bayh, he's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Democrat of Indiana.

First of all, Senator Bayh, on this development today that hostages, Japanese hostages, Israeli Arab hostages being taken, perhaps others with threats that they are going to be burned. Burned unless Japan does certain things, other coalition partners take certain steps. What do you know about this?

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN) SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Wolf, only what has been reported so far. And unless there be any doubt before now, this shows just how evil and despicable the folks that we're up against in Iraq really are.

This is not a war of Islam versus the west. It is not a war of the Iraqi people against the United States. This is a war of the forces of civilization and order versus the forces of chaos and anarchy, as represented by these terrorists and that's why it is important, Wolf, that we stay the course, even in the face of very ominous developments, and troubling ones like the ones we have seen today.

BLITZER: These are journalists and aid workers, humanitarian workers, who have come in to try to help rebuild Iraq, by and large, or simply to report the news. If it escalates along these lines, though, what would be the result?

BAYH: Well, it would be more heartache, for the families involved. But, look, we can't let as tragic as it is, situations like this deter us. These hostage takers obviously do not have the best interests of the Iraqi people at heart. They're trying to keep democracy, keep prosperity and freedom from that country. And they're willing to take hostages torture as you pointed out, even burn it is the same sort of thing done to Danny Pearl some while ago.

So look, we have to do everything we can to rescue these people. But by all means, not let the terrorists win. By giving in to these sorts of terrible demands.

BLITZER: You state United States has to stay the course, get the job done, specifically from your perspective, what does that mean?

BAYH: Well it means a couple of things. First, it means getting on with trying to establish a democracy in Iraq. What we need there more than anything else, Wolf, is a government that has legitimacy and power. A government that Iraqis, not just Americans and others, but Iraqis are willing to fight and die for. And that's why this transition that we're coming up to is so important. That's why we need to think carefully about whether June 30 is the right date or not, because I am convinced this entity or group of people we'll be transfering power to, whether they will have legitimacy and power and such that the Iraqi people will be willing to fight for them.

In addition to that, we need to try to broaden the coalition, get more of the world involved, because it is not just the United States fighter, Great Britain fight, as I mentinoed, it is really the civilized world against the forces of terror and anarchy. Everybody should be involved in that, helping to pay the freight and fight the fight.

BLITZER: You heard that Senator Kerry, this week, suggest that that June 30 date to hand over sovereignty to the Iraqis may have been politically driven by the Bush administration. Do you believe that?

BAYH: Well, I think there say sense of urgency in trying to get on with the transfer. And I understand that up to a point. You look, the Iraqis have to make tough decisions here, some tough compromises. There is a human reluctance to do that until there is a deadline and you have to absolutely make decisions.

But at the same time, we shouldn't allow what is in many respects an arbitrary deadline to lead us into a process that will not be successful. And that's why I think we have to focus on, who are these people we'll be turning sovereignty over to and can they get the job done or not? Do they have the support of the Iraqi people? And if they don't, Wolf, then the transfer will be nothing more than a symbol and probably not very successful.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Condoleezza Rice's testimony today up on Capitol Hill. She says there was no silver bullet, 9/11 could not have been prevented. You're a member of the Intelligence Committee. You've reviewed a lot of this if not all the evidence out there. What do you believe?

BAYH: I believe, Wolf, that it probably couldn't have been prevented. But we'll never really know. You can try and connect one dot to another dot and play the sort of would have, should have, could have scenario. We'll just unfortunately never know. But I think in all likelihood it could not have been prevented.

BLITZER: What did you think of her testimony, the answers she provided, the 10 commissioners?

BAYH: Well, I don't think that there was anything too earth shattering. My take away on it, was that terrorism was not as high a priority as some other things and in their scheme of things as missile defense or China. But that 9/11 could not have been prevented. There was an obession, a fixation on Iraq from day one in the administration. But it is still a good thing that Saddam Hussein is gone.

And I think what we need do, Wolf, rather than having so much Monday morning quarterbacking, although accountability is important, is to focus on where we go from here. There is still very important undone work in terms of reforming our intelligence community, having better domestic anti-terrorism efforts, like most other western democracies do, to make sure that that kind of tragedy never happens again. I think that we're simply not doing enough on either of those scores.

BLITZER: Senator Bayh, thank you for joining us.

BAYH: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: We'll talk with a top presidential adviser Dan Bartlett. He'll be joining us in a few moments. He'll also talk about Condoleezza rice's testimony, as well as the situation in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have to get a new tattoo after this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll find out how the upsurge of violence in Iraq is affecting families back here at home.

We'll hear what Democrat John Kerry is saying today about Iraq.

And tragedy and truth on the Masters Golf Tournament. We have a new development for you. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. Fierce fighting in Iraq, heated debate in the United States. Reaction from the White House and Democratic candidate John Kerry. That's coming up.

First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

The top U.S. general in Iraq says his troops are making strides on both fronts. He says they're having success against the militia of Shiite Cleric Muqtada al Sadr and battling to retake the largely Sunni city of Fallujah. Five U.S. have troops died in combat in the last two days.

In what may be a new and very disturbing tactic in the war, several groups of noncombatants have been taken hostage. Three Japanese civilians have been taken by a group calling itself the Mujahedin Squadons. A videotape that was released threatens them with death, burning actually, if Japan doesn't pull its forces out of the country.

And two Israeli Arabs who are international aid workers were taken in another hostage ins accident. Seven Koreans were detained, but they were eventually released.

The Fresno, California man accused of killing nine of his children, is back in court. Marcus Wesson pleaded not guilty to 33 counts of sexual abuse. Prosecutors say Wesson sexually abused 6 people, 5 of whom were under 14 at the time. Wesson had already pleaded not guilty to nine counts of murder.

The CDC says its identified at least six cases of West Nile Virus that were transmitted through blood donations last year, even though the nation's blood banks were screening for the disease. There were 9,000 cases of the disease in humans last year and 220 people died.

And this note at the Masters Golf Tournament in Augusta, Georgia. Sad news for golfer Tom Watson and others on the PGA tour. Watson's long time caddie, 49-year-old Bruce Edwards died today at his home in Florida after a year-long battle with Lou Gehrig's Disease. Edwards caddied for Watson for 30 years. Last year Watson donated a million dollar tournament prize to a foundation fighting the disease.

In Milwaukee today, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry called on President Bush to level with the American people about Iraq and seek more help from other countries. Our national correspondent Bruce Morton has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It would be inappropriate for me to come here and not say something about what is happening in Iraq.

BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry spoke first about some emotional pictures, wounded Americans scrambling out of a tank in Iraq.

KERRY: The images that have not been as pleasant as they might be to Americans, but the images of a tank being hit by an RPG, the images of the wounded, our soldiers, our young men scrambling out of the tank, bloody.

MORTON: Everyone, Kerry said, supports the troops. Kerry himself supported going into Iraq. But, as in the past, he accused President Bush of acting alone in Iraq without America's traditional allies.

KERRY: Once again, we are asking the question, why is the United States of America almost alone in carrying this burden and the risks which the world has a stake in? There is no Arab country that is advanced by a failed Iraq. No European country is made safer by a failed Iraq. And yet those countries are distinctly absent from the risk-bearing of this effort.

MORTON: Right now, there are about 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. Another 20,000 come from other coalition countries. Kerry urged the president to work for broader international support.

KERRY: If you were to ask any student in college, first year of foreign policy, do you think it is a good idea for the United States of America almost alone to occupy Middle Eastern nation, what do you think the answer would be?

CROWD: No!

KERRY: But that's precisely what we're doing.

MORTON: And Kerry urged the president to tell the voters what's going on.

KERRY: The president needs to explain to the American people who are we turning power over to on the 30th of June, what will we be protecting on the 30th of June?

(APPLAUSE)

MORTON: That's the date, of course, on which the U.S. is supposed to hand responsibility over to Iraq, with U.S. troops staying in the country only to enforce security. But which Iraqis the U.S. would hand power over to is still a question unanswered.

Brute Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's get some information on what is happening in Iraq, as well as Condoleezza Rice's testimony today before the 9/11 Commission.

Joining us, the White House communication director Dan Bartlett.

Dan, thanks very much for joining us. Tough words from Senator Kerry today. Let me let you respond to the two issues he raises. He says the U.S. is acting alone in Iraq and that's a big mistake.

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, thanks for having me, Wolf.

I think it is kind of interesting to see that the guest before, a Democratic senator, Evan Bayh, had very strong tough words for those thugs and killers who are really battling the civilized world in a moment of testing in Iraq. He is standing strong and our country is standing strong. Unfortunately, the leader of his party and the presidential candidate for his party has taken a different tactic. He wants to complain about things that are going on, instead of sending a strong message to those thugs and a strong resolve message that we're going stick it through, we're going to see this through.

Instead, he wants to try to complain things about quite frankly are contradictions in his own policy. It was Senator Kerry himself back in August of 2002 who told the president, go before the United Nations, go before the Congress, and if they don't agree in the United Nations, if we have to go it alone or go nearly alone, do that.

Well, the president has done just that. And now he says that he's complaining about our occupation in Iraq. But at the same time he wants to complain and oppose the June 30 sovereignty date. You can't have it both ways. And Senator Kerry seems to be trying to take advantage of an event and testing that is going on in Iraq for political gain. And I think the American people will reject that.

BLITZER: Let me interrupt you.

He says he wants the U.S. to stay to get job done in Iraq, but he just wants greater international involvement, bring the U.N. in more forcefully. And also the other question he's asking is, who takes over on June 30?

BARTLETT: Well, I think he's raising obvious rhetoric.

But when you look at the facts, as we speak here this evening, there are U.N. representatives in Iraq in Baghdad meeting with members of the different political parties in Iraq to determine the course set forward. Remember, every time the Iraqi people have had an opportunity to speak with their voice, whether it be in the recently administered -- the principles in which will govern them going forward, they have called for democracy.

We're going to work with the Iraqi people to make sure that they have a democratic Iraq. But right now is a moment of testing in which the enemies of democracy want to test our will. And Senator Kerry seems not to recognize that and wants to complain, as opposed to show resolve in the fact that we're not going to be intimidated by thugs and assassins.

BLITZER: How worried with you, Dan, about these images, these pictures, wounded Marines being forced out of a tank, these images which are very disturbing and the impact it could haven on U.S. public opinion?

BARTLETT: Oh, I think Senator Bayh, who was on before me, said it best when he says we're -- this is the civilized world fighting against evil. And we're going to see it through.

We, of course, mourn the loss of any loss of life, whether it be U.S. soldiers, Iraqis or coalition troops. But make no mistake, just as General Sanchez briefed today, we will prevail. The enemies of democracy will fail. And, as you're seeing, a multi-city offensive by our troops will decisively roll back the insurgent-type thugs, whether it be in Fallujah or other parts of the country, those who are following the militant cleric Sadr, who is wanted for the murder of a moderate cleric.

We will prevail in this. This is a moment of testing. We have said all along that the road to democracy will be tough, because the enemy knows what we know. The stakes are high in Iraq, because if democracy flourishes in Iraq, it is going to have an incredible positive influence on the greater Middle East and it is going to be an incredible defeat for the terrorists.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Condoleezza Rice's testimony today. First of all, I understand there are some -- a look now that the White House is taking at this August 6 presidential daily brief that was provided to the president. It is classified, but the commission members would like it to be declassified. What can you tell us?

BARTLETT: Well, as Dr. Rice said in the testimony, the commission members have had access to the PDB.

But we are looking at it and would like to provide it publicly to the American people what Dr. Rice spoke to. And that is this PDB, because I think it is very important to understand that, in July time frame, President Bush was seeing a lot of threat reporting from overseas. That's, as Dr. Rice testified to, where a lot of the concern was.

But also the president wanted to know what did we know about bin Laden here in the homeland? And the CIA, upon his request, devised this and created this PDB that was given to him on August 6. And it said some very clear things. It was an analytical piece that dated back over the course of the '90s bin Laden's statements and actions that suggested he wanted to attack America. We all had known that.

And this was provided to him. But a very clear point to be made here, there was no specific threat information that was being reported to the president for the American government to act on. And that is a critical distinction that is being lost by some members of the commission.

BLITZER: One final question. I take it the president was pleased by Dr. Rice's testimony?

BARTLETT: Well, he did watch it and called her afterwards to congratulate her. She did a terrific job talking about the responsible actions our administration took before 9/11 and the decisive actions we took after 9/11.

I think one point that Dr. Rice made very clear is that our government was not structured, our culture was not the right mind-set here in Washington over the course of many years to battle and defeat the terrorists. They had declared war on us, but our country over the course of many administrations had not declared war on the terrorists. That obviously all changed on 9/11 and we are bringing justice to those who are responsible. And President Bush will see it through.

BLITZER: Dan Bartlett, joining us from the White House. Thanks, Dan, very much.

BARTLETT: You're welcome.

BLITZER: The violence of war hitting much too close to home for many families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL RAMOS, FATHER: I knew the chances were good that he was going to go over there. As far as giving his life, that's -- I don't think we think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Coming up, remembering the brave United States military members who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

And this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Condoleezza Rice testifies about the terror threat and intelligence before 9/11. Is the commission satisfied with her responses? We'll hear live from two members. We'll get to that shortly.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Authorities blame communist guerrillas for explosions that killed at least 26 police officers in Eastern India. The police were in a convoy that ran over a series of land mines. And nine people were killed in an explosion at a political rally in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

Another operation. Pakistani forces appear to be getting ready for a new move against suspected al Qaeda hideouts. They're targeting a heavily forested mountain area near the Pakistani-Afghan border about 25 miles north of the area where a similar operation took place last month.

Holy Thursday. With the Easter holiday approaching, Pope John Paul II led a Vatican mass commemorating Jesus' last supper with his disciples. Donations raised at the mass will be used to care for sick children in Rwanda and Burundi.

Crocodile hunters. Authorities are looking for a five foot crocodile that has been menacing the suburbs of Hong Kong for months. A Chinese newspaper says animal control officers were on the verge of catching the croc on a riverbank when a boatload of media photographers showed up and scared it away.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A particularly deadly week for U.S. forces in Iraq, each loss plunging another family into a grief few can understand.

Here is CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What the numbing casualty figures don't show you. On the outskirts of Fallujah, a U.S. Marine tank minutes, possibly just seconds after being hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. As it sputters to a stop, flames and smoke rising from the center, a wounded Marine holding his bloody left arm scrambles out. Moments later, a seriously wounded comrade tries to make it through the hatch, but collapses.

Their mates swarm the tank to help. And they're taken away. Most of us see so little of what a combat soldier or Marine really goes through, from their excruciating pain on the battlefield to their families' enduring pain at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aim, fire.

TODD: Hobart, Wisconsin. Less than two days removed from his son's death half a world away in the Iraqi town of Ramadi, Ken Jarabek struggles to tell how he got the news about 18-year-old Ryan.

At 8:30 in the evening, two United States Marine Corps officers came here and informed us that my son had delivered the ultimate for his country.

TODD: Ryan Jarabek, a Marine for less than a year, joined right out of high school with a buddy.

JARABEK: He was a wonderful boy. And it is going to be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long, long time.

TODD: Not far away, Casco, Wisconsin, just days ago, Jesse Theory (ph) was a fresh-faced 23-year-old Marine corporal. Now family friends remember the little boy from such a short time ago.

RUDY HANAMANN, FAMILY FRIEND: We knew him from small on. And we were talking about him this morning, how he used to like to play in the water puddles up at our Lions Park up here. And his dad would say, get out of there. No, he wanted to -- he was just a nice young man.

TODD: Albuquerque, New Mexico, Marine Private 1st Class Christopher (ph) Ramos leaves a wife, an 18-month-old daughter and father newly stricken with grief.

RAMOS: I knew the chances were good that he was going to go over there. As far as giving his life, that's -- I don't think we think about that. We don't want to think about that.

TODD: All three based at Camp Pendleton, California, a base suffering heavy losses in recent days and a swirl of emotion, from the stoicism of a commander to a parent filled with longing.

MAJ. GEN. KEITH STALDER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Certainly, there is concern that the families see the news. They understand that there have been casualties in Iraq. They of course anticipate that some of that may affect them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want him home.

TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Condoleezza Rice goes on the public record, testifying before the 9/11 Commission. How did her answers affect the overall investigation? I'll speak live with two commission members.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This just in to CNN, the panel investigating the 9/11 terror attacks met for some three hours behind closed doors today with the former President Bill Clinton, this on the very same day that the president's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, also appeared before the panel.

Joining us now are two members of the 9/11 Commission, John Lehman. He's a former Navy secretary of the Reagan administration. And Tim Roemer. He's a former Democratic congressman who served on the Intelligence Committee, from Indiana.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

First of all, the news, Secretary Lehman, how did President Clinton do?

JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Well, he did very well. He was very, very open and very frank. He gave us a lot of -- a lot of very helpful insights into things that happened, policy approaches. He -- he -- as he said in the meeting, has a reputation for talking an owl out of a tree. And he did so with us very, very effectively.

BLITZER: Three hours, congressman, for Bill Clinton, that's not a long time in these kinds of exchanges. But did you ask him -- he had eight years to destroy al Qaeda after the '93 World Trade Center bombing and he failed to do it. Did he have an answer for that?

TIMOTHY ROEMER, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR NATIONAL POLICY: Well, pretty typical of President Clinton, it was more than three hours. It was actually probably three and a half or three hours and 40 minutes. We had excellent time with him. He fully cooperated with the commission. We asked him -- the five Democrats and five Republicans asked him a host of big questions, big policy recommendations, how do we move this country into a new threat environment, how do we reorganize the institutions in this country that still may be oriented toward the Cold War a little bit too much. He was good on the big- picture. He was...

BLITZER: But he did explain that one fundamental criticism that has been heard over and over again against his administration, that they, too -- they had eight years. The Bush administration may have had eight months, but they had eight years.

ROEMER: Well, I have to be careful, Wolf.

I've been on this show before with you and you've asked me about the private interview that we did with Dr. Rice. It is hard for us to talk about those under the agreement that we enter into in classified testimony. I can say the president was fully cooperative. We talked about big-picture questions. We did talk about some of the specific issues, like the USS Cole, like the embassy retaliation in Sudan and Afghanistan. And I'll have to leave it at that.

BLITZER: I respect the restriction.

Do you want to add anything to that, Secretary Lehman?

LEHMAN: Well, no, I completely agree. We did go into some of the obvious criticisms of the eight years under his tenure, the decisions that were made, maybe some wrong decisions, maybe some right calls. I think he was very frank, very open about talking about some decisions that, had he known some things, might have gone one way or another way.

He was -- couldn't have been more forthcoming and frank.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Dr. Condoleezza Rice's testimony today.

Secretary Lehman, you want the White House to release, to declassify that August 6 daily brief that spoke about al Qaeda threats?

LEHMAN: Absolutely. I think that there now has been so much attention to it that it is time that it was declassified and released in full, because, obviously, protecting sources and methods can be done without -- without being compromised. But the American people need to read this thing for themselves and I think it will answer a lot of questions.

BLITZER: When you read it -- you have already read it, obviously, Congressman Roemer -- what is your sense? Will the American public be outraged? Because the title of this presidential daily brief, which is the most sensitive classified information the president receives, referred specifically to bin Laden threats inside the United States.

ROEMER: Well, as you said, Wolf, the title of this is "Bin Laden Determined to Attack the United States."

And listed in this -- the joint inquiry listed this in their public document on a page 206, I believe. And it goes through and lists six or seven different indicators that bin Laden had been determined to attack the United States since about '97 or '98. It talks about Ressam's attempts to get into the United States in the millennium and bomb the L.A. airport. It talks about the FBI's posture. We need to get this out in the open.

There are some more questions about this. Dr. Rice also said today in her testimony...

BLITZER: But there was no specific -- let me let Secretary Lehman respond -- there was no specific notion, suggestion that al Qaeda was going to use commercial airliners, commercial planes as missiles.

LEHMAN: No, it was a catalog of the credible reports that had been accumulating over the summer of possible hijackings, mainly oriented to Europe, of the determination of al Qaeda to hit in the United States, of a variety of other potential mass casualty kinds of attacks.

But nowhere was it put together in a specific warning that this is happening here in this area, this kind of attack. It certainly got everybody's attention. It was in response to a continuing questioning by the president during the spike of all of these intelligence reports during July. And it answered -- it purported to answer his queries. And I think the American people need to read it for themselves.

BLITZER: Do you to agree with Condoleezza Rice's bottom line, there was no silver bullet that could have prevented 9/11?

ROEMER: I don't agree that -- you to have bullets in the gun, I think, Wolf. There is no silver bullet, yes. But you have to be loading the chambers with attempts. You to have the Predator up. You have to go aid the Northern Alliance. You have to respond to the USS Cole and, yes, you have to have an overall aggressive policy.

LEHMAN: I think that 9/11 could have been avoided if the domestic security problems that have now become very widely known had been fixed.

And -- but I also agree with Condi Rice and with Dick Clarke that, by January of 2001, it was too late. The pilots had all come into the country. The money was here. They were operating almost on autopilot. But, yes, it could have been avoided had we fixed the problems that had been around for at least 20 years in the dysfunctions of our intelligence community, domestic security and so forth.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, we have to leave it there on that gloomy note. But thanks to both of you for joining us. Thanks for all the good work that you're doing on behalf of the American public.

ROEMER: You're welcome.

LEHMAN: Good to be here.

BLITZER: The results of our "Web Question of the Day," that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Should the August 6 memo to President Bush discussed by the 9/11 Commission be declassified? Seventy percent of you say yes; 30 percent of you say no. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

We're on weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 8, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening right now, a terrifying new twist in Iraq. Get this, civilians from other countries are being taken hostage, the abductors threatening to burn them alive. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Going public, Condoleezza rice stands her ground.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

BLITZER: But did a secret White House memo warn of such attacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were willing to declassify that document, then others can make up their minds about it.

BLITZER: I'll speak with two members of the 9/11 Commission.

The fight for Iraq. U.S. Troops are attacking on several fronts, but they're under fire everywhere, and the casualties are mounting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a hell of a boy. There will be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long time.

BLITZER: Held hostage. For noncombatants in Iraq, there is a deadly new threat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Thursday, April 8th, 2004.

BLITZER: We'll have complete coverage of Condoleezza Rice's testimony today, up on Capitol Hill.

But first we want to go to some important developments happening right now in Iraq. Fierce fighting between coalition forces and enemies old and new. Sunni insurgents and since the weekend, a banned Shiite militia. Military officials are announcing new casual today as well. Two U.S. Marines and three U.S. Army soldiers killed in the last two days. There was also one very, very close call. You might find the video you're about to see rather disturbing.

Here is CNN's Jim Clancy in Baghdad. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fallujah, a flash point in the Sunni triangle and the sight of at least a dozen U.S. deaths this week. Coalition planes pounded more targets today, Marines described the fighting as moderate but it is still a battlefield. In another part of town, a marine tank hit by a rocket propelled grenade. They are wounded but all on board escaped. Military officials say none of the injuries is life threatening. U.S. forces are confident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are fighting us. When he fights us and chooses to stand and fight, we're killing him. When he runs, he usually abandons his gear and we recover it.

CLANCY: In Iraq's second largest city, the southern town of Basra, authorities say an attack on British soldiers left two wounded along with one Iraqi. Two suspects were captured. Elsewhere the banned militia let by radical Shia Muslim cleric Muqtada Al Sadr has at least partial control of the southern cities of Kufa, Kut and the central part of Najaf, that's where Sadr is believed to be holed up in the shadow of one of Shia Islam's holiest sites. He also has strong support in Baghdad in a neighborhood named after his assassinated father. Coalition forces moved in and destroyed his office in Sadr City on Wednesday saying it was being used as an operations base for his militia.

In an exclusive interview, a Sadr spokesman told CNN he's tried to negotiate with the coalition to no avail. He says the Iraqi people are attacking Americans in retaliation. He called on the coalition to, in his words, remove your tanks and stop raising your weapons. Another hot spot, Karbala, south of Baghdad. Polish and Ukrainian soldiers battled overnight with Shia fighters there, a hotel was burned to the ground. Eventually according to a Polish spokesman, the attackers were driven off.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: There are also appears to be an ominous new tactic in the Iraq conflict, foreigners are being taken hostage. Insurgents are hold league Japanese hostages and two Israeli Arabs.

Our senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Shown here, three Japanese taken hostage. Other videos shows them being manhandled and humiliated and threatened with guns and knives, obviously for the benefit of the camera. The Japanese government has been given three days to pull its troops out of the American sponsored coalition in Iraq or a shadowy group calling itself the Mujahedeen Squadrons threatens to burn the Japanese hostages alive. In another incident, two Israeli Arabs, Palestinian aid workers, were also seized and seven Korean Christian missionaries were also taken hostage by Islamic militants. They were later released.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And sheer some reaction to these kidnappings in Iraq, despite the demands of the group that says it is holding three Japanese citizens, the Japanese government says it has no plans to pull its nearly 1,000 troops out of Iraq. One Israeli cabinet official said if there is any effort by his government to rescue the Israeli Arab captives could actually wind up in endangering them.

Let's move on to that major development in the 9/11 investigation. The Bush administration fighting hard to keep her out of the hot seat, but after damaging testimony by a former counterterrorism adviser and strong public pressure, the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice appeared today before the panel investigating the 9/11 terror attacks in public and under oath.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

RICE: I do.

BLITZER (voice-over): And with that, Condoleezza Rice delivered a carefully worded 25 minute opening statement with this bottom line.

RICE: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

BLITZER: Unlike her former counterterrorism deputy Richard Clarke, she did not formally apologize to the families of the 9/11 victims. Some of whom were in the audience. She strongly defended President Bush's record in the months leading up to 9/11, but acknowledged that long-standing legal barriers preventing the FBI and CIA from communicating with each other were a key problem.

RICE: In hindsight if anything might have helped stop 9/11, it would have been better information about threats inside the United States.

BLITZER: Changes did not occur until after 9/11. During the occasionally acrimonious questioning, she repeatedly denied that she and the president had been negligent in ignoring the al Qaeda terror threat. Still, she disclosed that the U.S. intelligence community had intercepted communications from al Qaeda suspects during the summer of 2001 that included these words.

RICE: Unbelievable news coming in weeks. Big event. There will be a very, very, very big uproar. There will be attacks in the near future. Troubling, yes, but they don't tell us when, they don't tell us where, they don't us who, and they don't tell us how. BLITZER: Democratic commissioners pressed hardest for her to concede that the president and his administration could and should have done more.

BOB KERREY, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Said the president was tired of swatting flies. Can you tell me one example where the president swatted a fly when it came to al Qaeda prior to 9/11.

RICE: I think that president was speaking to...

KERREY: No, what fly had he swatted?

RICE: Well, the disruptions abroad was what he was really focusing on. When the CIA would go after this guy and...

(CROSSTALK)

KERREY: Dr. Rice, we only swatted a fly once on the 20th of August, 1998, we didn't swat any flies afterwards. How the hell could he be tired?

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Did you tell the president at anytime prior to August 6th of the existence of al Qaeda cells in the United States?

RICE: I really don't remember, commissioner, whether I discussed this with the president.

BLITZER: August 6th is significant because it was on that day, while the president was on vacation in Crawford, Texas, when Rice says, the CIA briefed the president on al Qaeda. And in that highly classified CIA briefing entitled bin Laden, determined to attack inside the United States, there were, Rice admitted, references to earlier warnings of al Qaeda plans to hijack passenger airliners. She says the warnings were not specific and that the briefing did not raise the possibility that terrorists would use airplanes as missiles. What about right now? Dr. Rice says this and I'm quoting, "I really believe that we have hurt the al Qaeda network, that is. We have not destroyed it."

And here is your chance to weigh in on this important story, our "Web Question of the Day" is this, should the August 6th intelligence memo to President Bush be discussed by the 9/11 commission be declassified?

You can vote right now. Go cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results a little bit later in this broadcast. The White House suggesting they're taking a very close look at that memo now to see if it can be declassified.

They lost their loved ones on 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't believe we'll get to the absolute truth. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Relatives of the victims react to Condoleezza Rice, and this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 8:30 in the evening two United States Marines Corp officers came here and informed us that my son had delivered the ultimate for is country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Beyond the numbers, the real human toll on the ground and at home.

Plus, a key critic says it is time for President Bush to call for help in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Many families of 9/11 victims have pushed for public testimony by Condoleezza Rice. How do they feel now that she's actually appeared in public before the commission? CNN's Sean Callebs has reaction from some relatives. What are they saying, Sean?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Wolf, for those who arguably lost most on 9/11, those who lost family and loved ones, this was an important day. A member of the president's inner circle talking about what the administration knew and when. It was a chance to have their faith in the administration renewed or undermined.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARIE LEMACK, RELATIVE OF 9/11 VICTIM: I think we got more information from the questions themselves than from the answers I think she was pretty evasive. One thing we heard overwhelmingly was that she didn't take action. We know that Mr. Clarke gave her a lot of warnings. She read some of the warnings in her written testimony, but she kept saying that she didn't have a plan, no one told her what to do. I would say I thought that was her job, was to figure out what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Carie LeMack, I talked to her a couple of hours ago. She sat through three hours of emotional ups and downs in the Hart Building. She said she left wanting more. Deborah Burlingame, whose brother Charles was a pilot on one of the flights, was also in the audience.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBORAH BURLINGGAME, RELATIVE OF 9/11 VICTIM: I was very satisfied. I was very impressed with what Dr. Rice had to say. I think she made it very clear that the spike in threats that they were getting in the summer of 2001 concerned American interests abroad, foreign interests abroad.

In other words, troops, embassies, that's what they were looking at and that's what her colleague Dick Clarke was talking about. The information they were get getting about domestic stuff dated way, way back to...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Three hours of testimony in the end, satisfaction for some 9/11 families. But Wolf, for others, the frustration and the pain does continue.

BLITZER: I suspect it will never go away. Thanks very much, Sean, for that report.

Far from Iraq, but too close to the pain of war...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a wonderful boy. There is going to be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Families trying to cope with the ultimate loss after tragic news is delivered at their home.

The star witness takes the stand, reaction to Condoleezza Rice's testimony. Hear from the White House and Democratic Senator Evan Bayh, both will be coming up. Dan Bartlett, the White House Communications Director, will join us.

On the hunt for al Qaeda, Pakistani troops preparing right now to make a new move.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Dramatic testimony by Dr. Condoleezza Rice on Capitol Hill today. Also, startling developments in Iraq. Let's bring in Senator Evan Bayh, he's a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Democrat of Indiana.

First of all, Senator Bayh, on this development today that hostages, Japanese hostages, Israeli Arab hostages being taken, perhaps others with threats that they are going to be burned. Burned unless Japan does certain things, other coalition partners take certain steps. What do you know about this?

SEN. EVAN BAYH (D-IN) SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Wolf, only what has been reported so far. And unless there be any doubt before now, this shows just how evil and despicable the folks that we're up against in Iraq really are.

This is not a war of Islam versus the west. It is not a war of the Iraqi people against the United States. This is a war of the forces of civilization and order versus the forces of chaos and anarchy, as represented by these terrorists and that's why it is important, Wolf, that we stay the course, even in the face of very ominous developments, and troubling ones like the ones we have seen today.

BLITZER: These are journalists and aid workers, humanitarian workers, who have come in to try to help rebuild Iraq, by and large, or simply to report the news. If it escalates along these lines, though, what would be the result?

BAYH: Well, it would be more heartache, for the families involved. But, look, we can't let as tragic as it is, situations like this deter us. These hostage takers obviously do not have the best interests of the Iraqi people at heart. They're trying to keep democracy, keep prosperity and freedom from that country. And they're willing to take hostages torture as you pointed out, even burn it is the same sort of thing done to Danny Pearl some while ago.

So look, we have to do everything we can to rescue these people. But by all means, not let the terrorists win. By giving in to these sorts of terrible demands.

BLITZER: You state United States has to stay the course, get the job done, specifically from your perspective, what does that mean?

BAYH: Well it means a couple of things. First, it means getting on with trying to establish a democracy in Iraq. What we need there more than anything else, Wolf, is a government that has legitimacy and power. A government that Iraqis, not just Americans and others, but Iraqis are willing to fight and die for. And that's why this transition that we're coming up to is so important. That's why we need to think carefully about whether June 30 is the right date or not, because I am convinced this entity or group of people we'll be transfering power to, whether they will have legitimacy and power and such that the Iraqi people will be willing to fight for them.

In addition to that, we need to try to broaden the coalition, get more of the world involved, because it is not just the United States fighter, Great Britain fight, as I mentinoed, it is really the civilized world against the forces of terror and anarchy. Everybody should be involved in that, helping to pay the freight and fight the fight.

BLITZER: You heard that Senator Kerry, this week, suggest that that June 30 date to hand over sovereignty to the Iraqis may have been politically driven by the Bush administration. Do you believe that?

BAYH: Well, I think there say sense of urgency in trying to get on with the transfer. And I understand that up to a point. You look, the Iraqis have to make tough decisions here, some tough compromises. There is a human reluctance to do that until there is a deadline and you have to absolutely make decisions.

But at the same time, we shouldn't allow what is in many respects an arbitrary deadline to lead us into a process that will not be successful. And that's why I think we have to focus on, who are these people we'll be turning sovereignty over to and can they get the job done or not? Do they have the support of the Iraqi people? And if they don't, Wolf, then the transfer will be nothing more than a symbol and probably not very successful.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Condoleezza Rice's testimony today up on Capitol Hill. She says there was no silver bullet, 9/11 could not have been prevented. You're a member of the Intelligence Committee. You've reviewed a lot of this if not all the evidence out there. What do you believe?

BAYH: I believe, Wolf, that it probably couldn't have been prevented. But we'll never really know. You can try and connect one dot to another dot and play the sort of would have, should have, could have scenario. We'll just unfortunately never know. But I think in all likelihood it could not have been prevented.

BLITZER: What did you think of her testimony, the answers she provided, the 10 commissioners?

BAYH: Well, I don't think that there was anything too earth shattering. My take away on it, was that terrorism was not as high a priority as some other things and in their scheme of things as missile defense or China. But that 9/11 could not have been prevented. There was an obession, a fixation on Iraq from day one in the administration. But it is still a good thing that Saddam Hussein is gone.

And I think what we need do, Wolf, rather than having so much Monday morning quarterbacking, although accountability is important, is to focus on where we go from here. There is still very important undone work in terms of reforming our intelligence community, having better domestic anti-terrorism efforts, like most other western democracies do, to make sure that that kind of tragedy never happens again. I think that we're simply not doing enough on either of those scores.

BLITZER: Senator Bayh, thank you for joining us.

BAYH: Good to be with you.

BLITZER: We'll talk with a top presidential adviser Dan Bartlett. He'll be joining us in a few moments. He'll also talk about Condoleezza rice's testimony, as well as the situation in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have to get a new tattoo after this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We'll find out how the upsurge of violence in Iraq is affecting families back here at home.

We'll hear what Democrat John Kerry is saying today about Iraq.

And tragedy and truth on the Masters Golf Tournament. We have a new development for you. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to CNN. Fierce fighting in Iraq, heated debate in the United States. Reaction from the White House and Democratic candidate John Kerry. That's coming up.

First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

The top U.S. general in Iraq says his troops are making strides on both fronts. He says they're having success against the militia of Shiite Cleric Muqtada al Sadr and battling to retake the largely Sunni city of Fallujah. Five U.S. have troops died in combat in the last two days.

In what may be a new and very disturbing tactic in the war, several groups of noncombatants have been taken hostage. Three Japanese civilians have been taken by a group calling itself the Mujahedin Squadons. A videotape that was released threatens them with death, burning actually, if Japan doesn't pull its forces out of the country.

And two Israeli Arabs who are international aid workers were taken in another hostage ins accident. Seven Koreans were detained, but they were eventually released.

The Fresno, California man accused of killing nine of his children, is back in court. Marcus Wesson pleaded not guilty to 33 counts of sexual abuse. Prosecutors say Wesson sexually abused 6 people, 5 of whom were under 14 at the time. Wesson had already pleaded not guilty to nine counts of murder.

The CDC says its identified at least six cases of West Nile Virus that were transmitted through blood donations last year, even though the nation's blood banks were screening for the disease. There were 9,000 cases of the disease in humans last year and 220 people died.

And this note at the Masters Golf Tournament in Augusta, Georgia. Sad news for golfer Tom Watson and others on the PGA tour. Watson's long time caddie, 49-year-old Bruce Edwards died today at his home in Florida after a year-long battle with Lou Gehrig's Disease. Edwards caddied for Watson for 30 years. Last year Watson donated a million dollar tournament prize to a foundation fighting the disease.

In Milwaukee today, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry called on President Bush to level with the American people about Iraq and seek more help from other countries. Our national correspondent Bruce Morton has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D-MA) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It would be inappropriate for me to come here and not say something about what is happening in Iraq.

BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry spoke first about some emotional pictures, wounded Americans scrambling out of a tank in Iraq.

KERRY: The images that have not been as pleasant as they might be to Americans, but the images of a tank being hit by an RPG, the images of the wounded, our soldiers, our young men scrambling out of the tank, bloody.

MORTON: Everyone, Kerry said, supports the troops. Kerry himself supported going into Iraq. But, as in the past, he accused President Bush of acting alone in Iraq without America's traditional allies.

KERRY: Once again, we are asking the question, why is the United States of America almost alone in carrying this burden and the risks which the world has a stake in? There is no Arab country that is advanced by a failed Iraq. No European country is made safer by a failed Iraq. And yet those countries are distinctly absent from the risk-bearing of this effort.

MORTON: Right now, there are about 130,000 U.S. troops in Iraq. Another 20,000 come from other coalition countries. Kerry urged the president to work for broader international support.

KERRY: If you were to ask any student in college, first year of foreign policy, do you think it is a good idea for the United States of America almost alone to occupy Middle Eastern nation, what do you think the answer would be?

CROWD: No!

KERRY: But that's precisely what we're doing.

MORTON: And Kerry urged the president to tell the voters what's going on.

KERRY: The president needs to explain to the American people who are we turning power over to on the 30th of June, what will we be protecting on the 30th of June?

(APPLAUSE)

MORTON: That's the date, of course, on which the U.S. is supposed to hand responsibility over to Iraq, with U.S. troops staying in the country only to enforce security. But which Iraqis the U.S. would hand power over to is still a question unanswered.

Brute Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Let's get some information on what is happening in Iraq, as well as Condoleezza Rice's testimony today before the 9/11 Commission.

Joining us, the White House communication director Dan Bartlett.

Dan, thanks very much for joining us. Tough words from Senator Kerry today. Let me let you respond to the two issues he raises. He says the U.S. is acting alone in Iraq and that's a big mistake.

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, thanks for having me, Wolf.

I think it is kind of interesting to see that the guest before, a Democratic senator, Evan Bayh, had very strong tough words for those thugs and killers who are really battling the civilized world in a moment of testing in Iraq. He is standing strong and our country is standing strong. Unfortunately, the leader of his party and the presidential candidate for his party has taken a different tactic. He wants to complain about things that are going on, instead of sending a strong message to those thugs and a strong resolve message that we're going stick it through, we're going to see this through.

Instead, he wants to try to complain things about quite frankly are contradictions in his own policy. It was Senator Kerry himself back in August of 2002 who told the president, go before the United Nations, go before the Congress, and if they don't agree in the United Nations, if we have to go it alone or go nearly alone, do that.

Well, the president has done just that. And now he says that he's complaining about our occupation in Iraq. But at the same time he wants to complain and oppose the June 30 sovereignty date. You can't have it both ways. And Senator Kerry seems to be trying to take advantage of an event and testing that is going on in Iraq for political gain. And I think the American people will reject that.

BLITZER: Let me interrupt you.

He says he wants the U.S. to stay to get job done in Iraq, but he just wants greater international involvement, bring the U.N. in more forcefully. And also the other question he's asking is, who takes over on June 30?

BARTLETT: Well, I think he's raising obvious rhetoric.

But when you look at the facts, as we speak here this evening, there are U.N. representatives in Iraq in Baghdad meeting with members of the different political parties in Iraq to determine the course set forward. Remember, every time the Iraqi people have had an opportunity to speak with their voice, whether it be in the recently administered -- the principles in which will govern them going forward, they have called for democracy.

We're going to work with the Iraqi people to make sure that they have a democratic Iraq. But right now is a moment of testing in which the enemies of democracy want to test our will. And Senator Kerry seems not to recognize that and wants to complain, as opposed to show resolve in the fact that we're not going to be intimidated by thugs and assassins.

BLITZER: How worried with you, Dan, about these images, these pictures, wounded Marines being forced out of a tank, these images which are very disturbing and the impact it could haven on U.S. public opinion?

BARTLETT: Oh, I think Senator Bayh, who was on before me, said it best when he says we're -- this is the civilized world fighting against evil. And we're going to see it through.

We, of course, mourn the loss of any loss of life, whether it be U.S. soldiers, Iraqis or coalition troops. But make no mistake, just as General Sanchez briefed today, we will prevail. The enemies of democracy will fail. And, as you're seeing, a multi-city offensive by our troops will decisively roll back the insurgent-type thugs, whether it be in Fallujah or other parts of the country, those who are following the militant cleric Sadr, who is wanted for the murder of a moderate cleric.

We will prevail in this. This is a moment of testing. We have said all along that the road to democracy will be tough, because the enemy knows what we know. The stakes are high in Iraq, because if democracy flourishes in Iraq, it is going to have an incredible positive influence on the greater Middle East and it is going to be an incredible defeat for the terrorists.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Condoleezza Rice's testimony today. First of all, I understand there are some -- a look now that the White House is taking at this August 6 presidential daily brief that was provided to the president. It is classified, but the commission members would like it to be declassified. What can you tell us?

BARTLETT: Well, as Dr. Rice said in the testimony, the commission members have had access to the PDB.

But we are looking at it and would like to provide it publicly to the American people what Dr. Rice spoke to. And that is this PDB, because I think it is very important to understand that, in July time frame, President Bush was seeing a lot of threat reporting from overseas. That's, as Dr. Rice testified to, where a lot of the concern was.

But also the president wanted to know what did we know about bin Laden here in the homeland? And the CIA, upon his request, devised this and created this PDB that was given to him on August 6. And it said some very clear things. It was an analytical piece that dated back over the course of the '90s bin Laden's statements and actions that suggested he wanted to attack America. We all had known that.

And this was provided to him. But a very clear point to be made here, there was no specific threat information that was being reported to the president for the American government to act on. And that is a critical distinction that is being lost by some members of the commission.

BLITZER: One final question. I take it the president was pleased by Dr. Rice's testimony?

BARTLETT: Well, he did watch it and called her afterwards to congratulate her. She did a terrific job talking about the responsible actions our administration took before 9/11 and the decisive actions we took after 9/11.

I think one point that Dr. Rice made very clear is that our government was not structured, our culture was not the right mind-set here in Washington over the course of many years to battle and defeat the terrorists. They had declared war on us, but our country over the course of many administrations had not declared war on the terrorists. That obviously all changed on 9/11 and we are bringing justice to those who are responsible. And President Bush will see it through.

BLITZER: Dan Bartlett, joining us from the White House. Thanks, Dan, very much.

BARTLETT: You're welcome.

BLITZER: The violence of war hitting much too close to home for many families.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL RAMOS, FATHER: I knew the chances were good that he was going to go over there. As far as giving his life, that's -- I don't think we think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Coming up, remembering the brave United States military members who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

And this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: There was no silver bullet that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Condoleezza Rice testifies about the terror threat and intelligence before 9/11. Is the commission satisfied with her responses? We'll hear live from two members. We'll get to that shortly.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Authorities blame communist guerrillas for explosions that killed at least 26 police officers in Eastern India. The police were in a convoy that ran over a series of land mines. And nine people were killed in an explosion at a political rally in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

Another operation. Pakistani forces appear to be getting ready for a new move against suspected al Qaeda hideouts. They're targeting a heavily forested mountain area near the Pakistani-Afghan border about 25 miles north of the area where a similar operation took place last month.

Holy Thursday. With the Easter holiday approaching, Pope John Paul II led a Vatican mass commemorating Jesus' last supper with his disciples. Donations raised at the mass will be used to care for sick children in Rwanda and Burundi.

Crocodile hunters. Authorities are looking for a five foot crocodile that has been menacing the suburbs of Hong Kong for months. A Chinese newspaper says animal control officers were on the verge of catching the croc on a riverbank when a boatload of media photographers showed up and scared it away.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A particularly deadly week for U.S. forces in Iraq, each loss plunging another family into a grief few can understand.

Here is CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What the numbing casualty figures don't show you. On the outskirts of Fallujah, a U.S. Marine tank minutes, possibly just seconds after being hit by a rocket-propelled grenade. As it sputters to a stop, flames and smoke rising from the center, a wounded Marine holding his bloody left arm scrambles out. Moments later, a seriously wounded comrade tries to make it through the hatch, but collapses.

Their mates swarm the tank to help. And they're taken away. Most of us see so little of what a combat soldier or Marine really goes through, from their excruciating pain on the battlefield to their families' enduring pain at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aim, fire.

TODD: Hobart, Wisconsin. Less than two days removed from his son's death half a world away in the Iraqi town of Ramadi, Ken Jarabek struggles to tell how he got the news about 18-year-old Ryan.

At 8:30 in the evening, two United States Marine Corps officers came here and informed us that my son had delivered the ultimate for his country.

TODD: Ryan Jarabek, a Marine for less than a year, joined right out of high school with a buddy.

JARABEK: He was a wonderful boy. And it is going to be a deep, deep hole here for a long, long, long time.

TODD: Not far away, Casco, Wisconsin, just days ago, Jesse Theory (ph) was a fresh-faced 23-year-old Marine corporal. Now family friends remember the little boy from such a short time ago.

RUDY HANAMANN, FAMILY FRIEND: We knew him from small on. And we were talking about him this morning, how he used to like to play in the water puddles up at our Lions Park up here. And his dad would say, get out of there. No, he wanted to -- he was just a nice young man.

TODD: Albuquerque, New Mexico, Marine Private 1st Class Christopher (ph) Ramos leaves a wife, an 18-month-old daughter and father newly stricken with grief.

RAMOS: I knew the chances were good that he was going to go over there. As far as giving his life, that's -- I don't think we think about that. We don't want to think about that.

TODD: All three based at Camp Pendleton, California, a base suffering heavy losses in recent days and a swirl of emotion, from the stoicism of a commander to a parent filled with longing.

MAJ. GEN. KEITH STALDER, U.S. MARINE CORPS: Certainly, there is concern that the families see the news. They understand that there have been casualties in Iraq. They of course anticipate that some of that may affect them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want him home.

TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Condoleezza Rice goes on the public record, testifying before the 9/11 Commission. How did her answers affect the overall investigation? I'll speak live with two commission members.

That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: This just in to CNN, the panel investigating the 9/11 terror attacks met for some three hours behind closed doors today with the former President Bill Clinton, this on the very same day that the president's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, also appeared before the panel.

Joining us now are two members of the 9/11 Commission, John Lehman. He's a former Navy secretary of the Reagan administration. And Tim Roemer. He's a former Democratic congressman who served on the Intelligence Committee, from Indiana.

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

First of all, the news, Secretary Lehman, how did President Clinton do?

JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Well, he did very well. He was very, very open and very frank. He gave us a lot of -- a lot of very helpful insights into things that happened, policy approaches. He -- he -- as he said in the meeting, has a reputation for talking an owl out of a tree. And he did so with us very, very effectively.

BLITZER: Three hours, congressman, for Bill Clinton, that's not a long time in these kinds of exchanges. But did you ask him -- he had eight years to destroy al Qaeda after the '93 World Trade Center bombing and he failed to do it. Did he have an answer for that?

TIMOTHY ROEMER, PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR NATIONAL POLICY: Well, pretty typical of President Clinton, it was more than three hours. It was actually probably three and a half or three hours and 40 minutes. We had excellent time with him. He fully cooperated with the commission. We asked him -- the five Democrats and five Republicans asked him a host of big questions, big policy recommendations, how do we move this country into a new threat environment, how do we reorganize the institutions in this country that still may be oriented toward the Cold War a little bit too much. He was good on the big- picture. He was...

BLITZER: But he did explain that one fundamental criticism that has been heard over and over again against his administration, that they, too -- they had eight years. The Bush administration may have had eight months, but they had eight years.

ROEMER: Well, I have to be careful, Wolf.

I've been on this show before with you and you've asked me about the private interview that we did with Dr. Rice. It is hard for us to talk about those under the agreement that we enter into in classified testimony. I can say the president was fully cooperative. We talked about big-picture questions. We did talk about some of the specific issues, like the USS Cole, like the embassy retaliation in Sudan and Afghanistan. And I'll have to leave it at that.

BLITZER: I respect the restriction.

Do you want to add anything to that, Secretary Lehman?

LEHMAN: Well, no, I completely agree. We did go into some of the obvious criticisms of the eight years under his tenure, the decisions that were made, maybe some wrong decisions, maybe some right calls. I think he was very frank, very open about talking about some decisions that, had he known some things, might have gone one way or another way.

He was -- couldn't have been more forthcoming and frank.

BLITZER: Let's talk about Dr. Condoleezza Rice's testimony today.

Secretary Lehman, you want the White House to release, to declassify that August 6 daily brief that spoke about al Qaeda threats?

LEHMAN: Absolutely. I think that there now has been so much attention to it that it is time that it was declassified and released in full, because, obviously, protecting sources and methods can be done without -- without being compromised. But the American people need to read this thing for themselves and I think it will answer a lot of questions.

BLITZER: When you read it -- you have already read it, obviously, Congressman Roemer -- what is your sense? Will the American public be outraged? Because the title of this presidential daily brief, which is the most sensitive classified information the president receives, referred specifically to bin Laden threats inside the United States.

ROEMER: Well, as you said, Wolf, the title of this is "Bin Laden Determined to Attack the United States."

And listed in this -- the joint inquiry listed this in their public document on a page 206, I believe. And it goes through and lists six or seven different indicators that bin Laden had been determined to attack the United States since about '97 or '98. It talks about Ressam's attempts to get into the United States in the millennium and bomb the L.A. airport. It talks about the FBI's posture. We need to get this out in the open.

There are some more questions about this. Dr. Rice also said today in her testimony...

BLITZER: But there was no specific -- let me let Secretary Lehman respond -- there was no specific notion, suggestion that al Qaeda was going to use commercial airliners, commercial planes as missiles.

LEHMAN: No, it was a catalog of the credible reports that had been accumulating over the summer of possible hijackings, mainly oriented to Europe, of the determination of al Qaeda to hit in the United States, of a variety of other potential mass casualty kinds of attacks.

But nowhere was it put together in a specific warning that this is happening here in this area, this kind of attack. It certainly got everybody's attention. It was in response to a continuing questioning by the president during the spike of all of these intelligence reports during July. And it answered -- it purported to answer his queries. And I think the American people need to read it for themselves.

BLITZER: Do you to agree with Condoleezza Rice's bottom line, there was no silver bullet that could have prevented 9/11?

ROEMER: I don't agree that -- you to have bullets in the gun, I think, Wolf. There is no silver bullet, yes. But you have to be loading the chambers with attempts. You to have the Predator up. You have to go aid the Northern Alliance. You have to respond to the USS Cole and, yes, you have to have an overall aggressive policy.

LEHMAN: I think that 9/11 could have been avoided if the domestic security problems that have now become very widely known had been fixed.

And -- but I also agree with Condi Rice and with Dick Clarke that, by January of 2001, it was too late. The pilots had all come into the country. The money was here. They were operating almost on autopilot. But, yes, it could have been avoided had we fixed the problems that had been around for at least 20 years in the dysfunctions of our intelligence community, domestic security and so forth.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, we have to leave it there on that gloomy note. But thanks to both of you for joining us. Thanks for all the good work that you're doing on behalf of the American public.

ROEMER: You're welcome.

LEHMAN: Good to be here.

BLITZER: The results of our "Web Question of the Day," that's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Should the August 6 memo to President Bush discussed by the 9/11 Commission be declassified? Seventy percent of you say yes; 30 percent of you say no. Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

We're on weekdays 5:00 p.m. Eastern.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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