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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Kerry Lays Out Plan to Win in Iraq; Interview With Bob Kerrey

Aired April 30, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, a top government counterterrorism adviser says there may be a terrorist still at large more dangerous than Osama bin Laden.
And, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lays out a detailed plan to win in Iraq.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): The Marines pull back but not out of Fallujah.

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: What we have there is an opportunity and not necessarily an agreement.

BLITZER: Can Saddam's soldiers help end the bloodshed?

Shocking images, Iraqis abused at the hands of U.S. troops.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated.

BLITZER: What will it do to America's image in the Arab world?

Walk out, why did they leave the Oval Office as the president met with the 9/11 panel?

BOB KERREY, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: I apologize to the families if they're offended by this.

BLITZER: I'll speak exclusively with Commissioner Bob Kerrey.

Michael Jackson speaks out.

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

BLITZER: The wraps are off a secret indictment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, April 30, 2004. BLITZER: It's been a bloody battleground and a suicide attack claimed the lives of two more Americans there today but there are signs of a possible settlement in Iraq's Sunni heartland city of Fallujah as U.S. Marines work with Saddam Hussein's former officers. It could be a model for other hotspots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Fallujah ravaged by weeks of combat. Now it looks like Iraqi security forces are taking some of the reins from U.S. Marines and patrolling the city of 200,000, Marines repositioned but not completely out of Fallujah.

ABIZAID: The opportunity is to build an Iraqi security force from former elements of the army that will work under the command of coalition forces.

BLITZER: Marines will integrate with Iraqi forces gradually handing over more responsibility for security in Fallujah. That means trying to disarm some insurgents, arrest others, and collect weapons but a stark reminder of the perils lurking in this area, a suicide car bomb kills two Marines and wounds six other just three miles outside Fallujah.

Can a similar deal be brokered in another dangerous city, Najaf, where U.S. forces stake their positions opposite the so-called Mehdi Army of renegade cleric Muqtada al-Sadr?

Coalition officials tell CNN they're trying to bring together local leaders to reach a deal for the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps to bolster security but in a weekly sermon, al-Sadr bolsters his hard line calling the United States the enemy of Islam.

MUQTADA AL-SADR, SHIITE CLERIC (through translator): Some people have asked me recently to tone down my words and to avoid escalation with the Americans. As they said, the escalation of the tone makes things worse as it irritates the enemy and, in consequence, they would direct their anger on us.

BLITZER: In al-Sadr's stronghold in Baghdad the body of an Iraq is found hanged, apparently tortured, and beaten, a sign on his chest reading Mehdi Army business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Arab world woke up today to shocking photos that apparently show U.S. troops abusing detainees at a prison outside Baghdad. The pictures have led to charges against six United States soldiers and the images may have damaged the American mission in Iraq.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has reaction from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis watch disturbing images of abuse and humiliation on the Arabiya Satellite News Network vividly depicting degradation of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers in Abu Ghurayb prison outside Baghdad these images sending waves of revulsion through a conservative religious society that places a premium on dignity and modesty.

Abu Ghurayb prison, once a notorious symbol of Saddam Hussein's repression now under American control few Iraqis likely to miss the irony that these acts were allegedly committed by soldiers of the very country that styles itself as a champion of human rights.

"It's wrong, wrong, 100 percent and a crime" says Halil (ph). "You came to liberate us from an unjust dictator who killed and tortured us."

WEDEMAN: Coalition officials aren't mincing their words when it comes to these images the authenticity of which have not been independently verified.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: And I'm not going to stand up here and try to apologize for what those soldiers did. As I've said before, those soldiers wear the same uniform as 150,000 other soldiers that are operating proudly and properly here in Iraq and those soldiers let us down. They simply let use down.

WEDEMAN: The U.S. military says six soldiers have been charged with abusing inmates as part of an ongoing criminal investigation that could lead to their court martial. The military also is conducting a thorough review of how Abu Ghuryab prison is run.

Rumors have swirled around Baghdad for months that abuse of Iraqi prisoners was rife in Abu Ghuryab and for many Iraqis confronted with these images those rumors have now been confirmed.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: The White House calls the acts shown in the photographs despicable and the president is mincing no words in offering his own reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president is also promising disciplinary action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Those few people who did that do not reflect the nature of the men and women we sent overseas. That's not the way -- that's not the way the people are. It's not their character that are serving, that are serving our nation and the cause of freedom and there will be an investigation. I think it will be taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator John Kerry today also reacted to those shocking images. In a statement he says he's "disturbed and troubled by the evidence of shameful mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners."

Kerry's statement adds this: "As Americans, we must stand tall for the rule of law and freedom everywhere but we cannot let the actions of a few overshadow the tremendous good work that thousands of soldiers are doing every day in Iraq and all over the world."

Contrasting images today from Iraq, those shocking prison photos could mean a new setback for the U.S. and its coalition partners even as pictures of American Marines shaking hands with Saddam Hussein's former soldiers could be a sign of some new progress.

Joining us now for some analysis of all of this retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, General Joulwan thanks very much for joining us.

You've been in battle. You know what it's like. You have prisoners, detainees who soldiers believe may have killed their friends and maybe that leads to what we've seen in these photos.

GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, if these photos are accurate, and I believe they are, that is yet to be proven, we cannot condone this. I mean flat out you can't condone this and I will assure you that General Sanchez and General Abizaid, who I know very well, will take action here but they should have a fair trial but a speedy trial and this needs to be nipped in the bud. It's not indicative of how we conduct ourselves in combat or not but this is very serious and needs to be handled very quickly and very properly.

BLITZER: How often do you hear about these kinds of alleged abuses in battle?

JOULWAN: It varies. As the war went on in Vietnam we, you know, you saw your buddies being blown up. This has a psychological effect on some soldiers. This is where leadership comes in and there's no excuse for it, whether it's day one or five years later in a war there is no excuse for it.

It does get in the minds of soldiers and you have to constantly check and talk and that's where leadership comes in and, with good leadership, this can be prevented.

BLITZER: What do you make of this tentative deal, arrangement in Fallujah now, Marines pulling back somewhat. Saddam Hussein's former general now apparently allies of the U.S. in this arrangement.

JOULWAN: Well, I think if you would ask someone what should have been done a year ago the disbanding or the disillusion of the Iraqi Army I think was a mistake. I think they could help us. We're now trying to reassert that now to get the Iraqi Army more involved. However, it cuts both ways. We've had some examples of former policemen that were siding with the insurgents and not with the Americans, so it's yet to be seen but it is a first step where Iraqis have to start taking responsibility for security within these large towns and villages and that's what I think we're going to see but the jury is still out -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you think there's a possibility, a similar arrangement, if it works in Fallujah, could be achieve in Najaf, the holy Shiite city?

JOULWAN: I think we're going to see some of that but I would caution here that what we're seeing is something that was done on the ground and is yet to be proven. I'll wait here before I reserve judgment whether we should do it somewhere else.

I think there has to be a vetting of this in Fallujah to see before it takes place in Najaf but, clearly, the Iraqis politically as well as police and military need to start getting involved and we need to hold them accountable for what happens in these large cities.

BLITZER: Tomorrow it will be one year since the president was aboard the Abraham Lincoln, mission accomplished banner, major combat operations over. Looking at the situation as it exists today one year later, what's your recommendation? What needs to be done?

JOULWAN: As I've said often with you that, and this is not a Democratic issue or a Republican issue, this is an American issue. This concerns strategy of how you conduct yourself in this sort of situation.

And what has to happen once the war fight ends, once Baghdad falls, getting a secure environment is absolutely essential and the clarity here of the mission. What does that mean, stabilization? Sealing all the borders, making sure convoy routes are open and can run and are secure, disarming warring factions, et cetera.

And when you start listing that clarity, which should be done by our civilian authorities to the military that gives you the troop strength you need. In my view that was not done at the end of the war a year ago and we're still, we're suffering the consequences of that now.

BLITZER: General Joulwan we'll continue this conversation. Thanks very much.

JOULWAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: To our viewers here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Were you upset by pictures that appear to show Iraqi detainees being abused by U.S. troops?" You can vote right now, cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

From the war in Iraq to the war on terror hear from a man who has inside knowledge on the hunt for Osama bin Laden. I'll talk with U.S. counterterrorism coordinator Cofer Black.

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KERREY: I'm doing this on a voluntary basis. I've got a full- time job. I got a university to run and I have responsibilities there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In the hot seat, 9/11 Commission member Bob Kerrey tells us why he walked out of the president's testimony yesterday, my exclusive interview with the former Nebraska Senator that's coming up next.

Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Michael Jackson enters his plea. The King of Pop indicted on ten counts, including a new very serious charge. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Former Democratic Senator Bob Kerrey is one of the 9/11 panel members who met with the president and the vice president yesterday in the Oval Office but Kerrey and panel Vice-Chairman Lee Hamilton left early citing prior commitments.

I pressed Kerry about that issue today in this first and exclusive interview since that meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Kerrey, thanks very much for joining us.

KERREY: Thank you.

BLITZER: A question a lot of people are asking right now why did you decide to leave the meeting with the president and the vice president early?

KERREY: Well, I'd had a conversation with the chairman at the beginning of the day and told him that I had a noon meeting with a Senator on the Hill and he said well we'll be done by 11:30. You won't need to cancel it.

So, when I'm sitting in the Oval Office at the end of the meeting, had to make a decision do I make a cell phone call to a Senator or get up and respectfully leave, which I did, and the president and I had a very nice exchange at the end.

He described a very moving thing actually for me about jogging with a young man who had lost his leg in Afghanistan and I thanked him for the work that he'd done for veterans' prosthesis in particular and left.

BLITZER: Because you were injured in Vietnam yourself. But don't you think Senator Pete Domenici would have understood, here you are at this historic meeting with the president and the vice president if you can late or even if you had to cancel?

KERREY: Maybe. You know it's possible, sure. I mean, you know, you're sitting there making a judgment, so I mean as I said I detected no irritation on the part of the president. I think he perfectly well understood and particularly Congressman Hamilton had already said that he was going to be leaving at the end and I thought it was an appropriate thing to do.

BLITZER: The tabloids, at least in New York, the "New York Post" and I'll hold it up and show our viewers has a pretty tough headline "Oval Office Insult," two 9/11 Dems walk out on Bush. You've seen that cover.

KERREY: Well, the story actually is accurate. I mean the headline is just incorrect. We didn't insult the president. We were very respectful, not just upon departure but throughout the meeting and the president and the vice president did an exceptional job of doing something on a voluntary basis and I think helped the commission a great deal.

And, as you know, Wolf, I mean it's a presidential campaign and it's, you know, it's a very partisan moment and what I have to do is keep my partisan juices intact and not respond to stuff like that because I do think that the commission's got a good chance of producing a consensus report.

And I think the president and the vice president's meeting with us yesterday is, I think, going to help a great deal. I was quite surprised, frankly, by a number of things that we learned in the meeting and I think it helped a lot.

So, I just have to keep a cool head. I don't always do that and stay calm in this moment and not let myself be whipsawed by a headline in the "New York Post." As I said, the story itself I think pretty accurately reflected the choice that I made during the meeting.

BLITZER: A lot of conservative talk show, radio talk show hosts are having a field day with this as well. But more importantly than them, what about the families of the 9/11 victims? Some of them have been quoted in some of the papers, some of the TV stations as saying you should have stayed. What do you say to that?

KERREY: Well, I apologize to them. The meeting was almost over. Look, I'm doing this on a voluntary basis. I've got a full-time job. I got a university to run and I have responsibilities there and I left my university for already well over 100 hours of work to try to do my job on this commission.

So, I apologize to the families if they were offended by this but I do think that I've represented the families' interests and did so in the questioning to the president.

And I don't think that I failed in my duties to be a good commissioner by getting up at the tail end of a meeting and keeping a meeting that I had with a Senator to discuss an appropriation for my university.

I just respectfully disagree with those who think that I did, although in some cases I don't respectfully disagree. I simply refuse to take the bait of conservative columnists and others who, you know, want to gin up a partisan argument.

They actually are trying to do something odd, which is brand the commission as a partisan organization. It's true under law there are five Democrats and five Republicans. We didn't do that. Somebody else wrote the law and created it that way but we've held together.

We've avoided I think quite well talking about either our interviews with President Clinton or with President Bush and I think we increased the chances of being able to produce a general consensus report and fulfill the mission, both to the families and the rest of America as a consequence.

BLITZER: The other criticism that you've heard about when you were on "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart the other night, the number three Republican in the House, Roy Blunt, the Majority Whip, was very critical of you for having some fun at the expense of the 9/11 Commission.

KERREY: Well, I don't know what to say to Congressman Blunt. I mean I think the Republicans in the Congress need to calm down and take a deep breath here. I mean, look, this commission will do everything in its power to produce a bipartisan report.

And part of what we have to do, what I have to do as a Democrat, is not take the bait of Roy Blunt or John Cornyn or somebody else who is offended by something that I do on a comedy show, for God's sake.

So, you know, I'm sorry that his nose is out of joint but frankly I'm not terribly concerned about it. I'll worry about working with Republican and Democratic commissioners to try to do the job and then I look forward to producing a final report, so I can get back to work.

BLITZER: Bottom line of the meeting yesterday with the president and the vice president, it was productive, you learned something?

KERREY: Yes, a great deal. I mean first of all I would under no circumstances subpoena the president. I do not think he needed to appear. He didn't need to testify under oath. I disagree with those who were calling for that.

And so, to my mind both he and the vice president volunteered to come and for all the talk about how it was improper for them to be coming together, the fact that they were together helped. The president was very much in charge. He was very much engaged. He answered those questions that he could and didn't answer those that he couldn't.

So, I mean I thought he did a very good job and I do think that both of their observations during the two and a half hours that we spent with them yesterday will increase the chances that the report fulfills the requirement under law that we have.

BLITZER: Senator Kerrey thanks very much for joining us.

KERRY: You're welcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A deal reached in Fallujah but no end to the violence, at least not yet. I'll speak live with a journalist embedded with U.S. Marines in that city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead and we face tough times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Bush reflecting on harsh realities in Iraq one year after declaring major combat over.

Plus, the al Qaeda member believed to be even more dangerous than Osama bin Laden. We'll hear from U.S. Counterterrorism Coordinator Cofer Black.

Verdict reached in the manslaughter trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams. We'll go live to the courthouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of what many consider to be perhaps the most controversial remarks on the Iraq War. Standing on the deck of an American aircraft carrier, President Bush declared major combat operations over. The president today defended his words and his policy.

Joining us now live our White House Correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, in his brief remarks to reporters today the president used the word "strategy" three times. That is because his critics say that he has none when it comes to Iraq dating back to a statement he made one year ago aboard an aircraft carrier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): May 1, 2003, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush declared major combat over in Iraq. One year and more than 600 American casualties later, he defended those remarks.

BUSH: I did give the speech from the carrier saying that we had achieved an important objective, that we had accomplished a mission which was the removal of Saddam Hussein.

MALVEAUX: But the banner behind the president "mission accomplished" signaled to some Americans and Bush critics a swift win in Iraq. As the June 30 deadline to transfer power to the Iraqi people nears, insurgencies in Fallujah and Najaf threaten to undermine stability in the country and this April proved to be the bloodiest month ever in Iraq with at least 126 Americans killed.

BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead.

MALVEAUX: For Mr. Bush's critics, though, his declarations that day have come to symbolize the administration's failures.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Our mission was far from accomplished then and it's far from accomplished now.

SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Najaf is smoldering. Fallujah is burning and there is no exit in sight.

MALVEAUX: Since Mr. Bush's speech his chief political strategist Carl Rove and other top advisers have acknowledged they regret the "mission accomplished" banner overhead but they say the president's message has been consistent that bringing democracy to Iraq is tough work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And that work, of course, has taken its toll on the president's approval rating. It was last year about this time that latest CNN-USA Gallup poll showing that it was about 76 percent Americans believed that the president was handling the Iraq situation well. Now it is down to 48 percent -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House thanks Suzanne very much.

Senator John Kerry today delivered a detailed policy speech on Iraq. He repeated a charge he's made throughout his presidential campaign, much more needs to be done in Iraq before the mission is truly accomplished. The Senator spoke at Westminster in Fulton, Missouri only four days after the vice president appeared there and sharply criticized Kerry's leadership.

Joining us now from New York with more our National Correspondent Kelly Wallace -- Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, aides acknowledge there were really two parts to Kerry's strategy in this speech, one stay away from anything that might be construed as Bush bashing and, two, flush out his ideas as he is being pressed to offer his solutions, what he would do differently to deal with the situation in Iraq.

He spoke in the place where Winston Churchill gave what became known as his "Iron Curtain Speech" nearly 60 years ago and there Senator Kerry acknowledged that one year ago tomorrow, President Bush declared mission accomplished in Iraq.

But the Senator appeared to be trying to take a high minded approach. Again, there was no real Bush bashing. He did say though: "It is time to put pride aside to build a stable Iraq."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a moment of truth in Iraq, not just for this administration, the country, the Iraqi people but for the world. This may be our last chance to get it right and we...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Here's what Kerry says is his plan for Iraq. Number one get NATO forces on the ground to internationalize the coalition. Two, appoint a U.N. high commissioner to oversee the entire political transition. And number three step up the training of the Iraqi security forces.

Now, the Bush-Cheney campaign responding quickly saying that John Kerry is not offering any new alternatives and that much of what he proposes the Bush administration is already doing. And this does point out a bit of a political challenge for John Kerry because there is not a big difference between John Kerry and President Bush when it comes to this. Both men believe the United States needs to remain in Iraq and U.S. troops need to remain there until there is stability in the country -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace in New York, thanks, Kelly, very much.

Coalition forces push for a pullout. But with two more U.S. troops killed today, questions remain about whether Fallujah is really ready for a full retreat. Up next, we'll have a situation report from an embedded reporter on ground in Fallujah.

In court and indicted. The king of pop enters a plea. Where does the Michael Jackson case goes from here?

And SARS scare. The virus is back and it's just claimed its first death of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

U.S. forces start an ambitious plan to pull out of Fallujah so Iraqi troops can take the lead. We'll have a live report from the scene. That's coming up momentarily. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

California is pulling the plug on some new high-tech voting machines. The secretary of state is barring the new devices from the November election in four counties because of security concerns. He also says he wants an investigation into whether the machine's manufacturer might be guilty of fraud.

Republican Senator John McCain is blasting the Sinclair Broadcast Group for ordering its ABC stations not to air tonight's "Nightline." The show carries the names and photos of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war. Sinclair says "Nightline" -- quote -- "appears to be motivated by a political agenda designed to undermine the U.S. efforts in Iraq."

Back to our top story now, the arrangement between U.S. Marines and Saddam Hussein's former soldiers that may bring some stability to the flash point city of Fallujah.

Joining us now on the phone is "Los Angeles Times" reporter Tony Perry. He's embedded with the U.S. Marines in Fallujah.

Tony, thanks very much once again for joining us; 24 hours ago, you accurately reported what was about to happen. Today, this tentative deal appears to have gone through. Tell our viewers what's happening now.

TONY PERRY, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, two out of the three Marine battalions that are inside the city are already pulling out. The third one should be pulling out soon. The middle of next week, there probably should be no Marines left inside the city of Fallujah.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi army is moving in. Hundreds of soldiers, some who served previously, some who have just enlisted are scheduled to start work tomorrow, the next day, and the day after that. So the deal seems to be finalized and is in the works.

BLITZER: These Iraqi soldiers, some of them served obviously under Saddam Hussein. Some were even supposedly generals in the so- called Republican Guard. Is that right?

PERRY: That's exactly right. They're experienced soldiers. They served. They fought against the United States, maybe in both wars, and now they're going to serve to protect -- if they follow through on what they say, they're going to serve to protect Westerners coming in and out of the city of Fallujah.

BLITZER: How do the Marines -- and you're speaking to them day by day, hour by hour -- how are they reacting to this?

PERRY: Well, I think there is a level of disappointment that they weren't able to finish the mission, that is, strike at the heart of the insurgent stronghold downtown Fallujah.

But there's combat yet to comfort Marines in the rural and suburban areas outside Fallujah. And also there is a sense that if the Iraqi army doesn't get the job done, doesn't wipe out the insurgents, doesn't create a stable, secure situation, the Marines will be right back into Fallujah. So while the Marines are disappointed they didn't get to follow through, they know there's a lot of fighting left to do in this country.

BLITZER: Tony Perry has been doing some outstanding reporting for us, for "The Los Angeles Times."

Thanks, Tony, very much. We'll check back with you clearly.

Somewhere, in some part of the world, al Qaeda and other terrorists are planning attacks against the Western world. Few people understand that danger more than Cofer Black. He once worked for the CIA and is now the State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism.

Earlier today, I spoke with him about a new report detailing what threats are out there right now and how serious they are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As you well know, having studied al Qaeda for so many years, including when you were director of operations over at the CIA, this is an organization sometimes loosely coordinated. They wait a year or two, three years, before major attacks in order to get it right. How concerned are you that we may be on the eve of another major attack?

COFER BLACK, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, those that are involved with counterterrorism, the practitioners, are always very concerned. They tend to be very paranoid people. They don't get much sleep.

But they are on it, and from what I know, they're doing a great job of it. We always have to be concerned. I think it's very important for your audience to appreciate that the al Qaeda organization of the 9/11 period, 70 percent, over 70 percent of their leadership has been arrested, detained or killed. More than 3,400 of their operatives and supporters have also been detained and put out of an action.

So you have an organization, the 9/11 organization that's under catastrophic stress. We're after the survivors. And, as the president says, we're hunting them down. Also, the corollary to this is, there are localized groups that watch the media and access the Internet that are the victims of incitement. And so some of these are rising up. And we're identifying and engaging them.

The good news there is that they don't have much operational experience. They make a lot of mistakes. And with the effort of the international community, the will that's being shown by the various governments and each country helping the other in terms of capacity, we've got the edge and the advantage and we plan to address these things aggressively.

BLITZER: I want to get some specific groups. But the loosely coordinated elements, sometimes not even coordinated, but simply sympathetic to the goals of al Qaeda, in your opinion, are there such cells currently inside the United States?

BLACK: The FBI and American law enforcement is who really looks at these issues very closely. And I would have to defer to them.

But I will tell you, every possible lead is followed up. The smallest piece of minutiae is followed up aggressively. And I have great confidence in the capabilities of our law enforcement. I have good confidence in our intelligence and security services operating overseas. These two coming together give us the best chance to defend the homeland. As the president of the United States has said, we are in a war. We are potential victims, but we're aggressively defending ourselves and going after these guys to get them before they get us, so we protect us, men, women and children.

BLITZER: Do you believe Osama bin Laden and his No. 2, Ayman al- Zawahiri, are still capable of plotting, of planning a terrorist strike against U.S. interests either here in the United States or elsewhere around the world?

BLACK: Well, they're both certainly capable of it. There is a difference between the two.

Zawahiri is certainly in the field and operating, has lines of communication to his subordinates and is planning attacks as we speak, and we're after him and we're going to get him. Osama bin Laden, on the other hand, is increasingly more of a figurehead. He's very defensive. He knows we're after him. And he spends most of his time hiding from us.

When I think of Osama bin Laden these days, he has limited contact with the outside world. Now, again, he will release a tape that we all look at and study, but he tends to be very defensive. I have a picture akin to Saddam Hussein hiding in a hole. And probably, that's an accurate picture.

BLITZER: Now, let me just get this straight. You believe that the No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is potentially more dangerous to the United States right now than Osama bin Laden?

BLACK: Well, I think Zawahiri represents more of a threat comparatively between the two men. He tends to be more operational than Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden increasingly is more of a figurehead. He has reduced levels of communication with those of his followers that are left to communicate with.

So I think there is a bit of a difference. And I would say your audience should probably consider Zawahiri a significant threat, Osama bin Laden comparatively more of a figurehead at this point for right now.

BLITZER: What about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- i know the names sometimes get confusing -- supposedly plotting all of these, at least a lot of these terror strikes, suicide bombings, car bombings, in Iraq itself? What about him? Is he associated directly with al Qaeda? BLACK: There is this clear association. We should consider him an associate of Osama bin Laden.

His operational profile is one that goes back a long way. We've been interested in him and following him for a considerable period of time. He's particularly interested in what's described as weapons of mass destruction. He was key in setting up labs, doing things like ricins, poisons, things like that. He continues to operate at a pretty good level, but to operate, you have to communicate. You have to communicate with your associates, your subordinates.

You have to move material around. And we're after him, and his days are numbered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Cofer Black speaking with me earlier today, the State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism.

A verdict is reached in the trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams.

Plus, Michael Jackson's back in court arraigned today on charges of child molestation. The king of pop enters a plea.

An economic upswing, how positive changes in Silicon Valley could impact the presidential election. We'll get "The Inside Edge With Carlos Watson."

Safe, but not without a major scare. Wait until you see what happened to this military cargo plane upon landing.

We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Hundreds of Indonesians clash with police over the rearrest of a Muslim cleric accused of heading a terror group with links to al Qaeda. Dozens were injured. Police say they have new evidence that Abu Bakar Bashir is the leader of the Jemaah Islamiya and that he approved several bombings, including the one in Bali two years ago that killed more than 200 people.

SARS in China. Chinese health officials confirm a woman who died last week had severe acuity respiratory syndrome. It's the world's first confirmed SARS death this year. The victim was the mother of a Beijing laboratory worker who contracted the virus on the job.

A bigger European Union. Europeans are celebrating tomorrow's historic expansion of the E.U. Ten nations are joining the current 15 members. Most were formerly part of the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact.

Marathon chess match. Cuba has broken its own world record for the number of people playing chess at the same time in the same place; 13,000 players, young and hold alike, took part. Cuba set the previous record in 2002 when more than 11,300 people played 5,660 simultaneous games in Havana's Revolution Square.

And that's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Singer Michael Jackson pleaded not guilty to all 10 grand jury indictment counts relating to child sex charges. Some charges we had already heard about, but there were a few surprises today.

Let's get some more from our national correspondent Gary Tuchman, who is covering the story for us in Santa Maria -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, once again, it was a court date combined with a pop culture event.

Hundreds of Michael Jackson fans gathered outside the courthouse to greet the king of pop as he entered for this very important court hearing. It was a much different arrival than his last arrival in January. He was 20 minutes late this past January for his first appearance, made the judge very angry. Today, he was 50 minutes early as he walked inside. The judge wasn't angry, but he had bad news for Michael Jackson.

The grand jury has handed up an indictment with one additional charge. And it's a very serious charge. In addition to the nine original counts of lewd acts toward a child and supplying that child with alcohol, the additional charge that Michael Jackson conspired to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion. The exactly details of why those are mentioned, we don't know yet, because the grand jury transcript is sealed.

There will be another hearing in four weeks to decide how much to make public, how much if any. Anyway, it was not good news for Michael Jackson, who came out and spoke after the hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the Earth. My family has been very supportive. My brother Randy has been incredible. I want to thank the community of Santa Maria. I want you to know that I love the community of Santa Maria very much. It's my community. I love the people. I will always love the people.

My children were born in this community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart. That's why I moved here.

Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Michael Jackson waved, blew kisses, gave the peace sign before he pulled out of the driveway and went back in the direction of his Neverland Ranch. We should find out in four weeks at that next hearing when a trial date will be -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Gary Tuchman, thanks for that.

A split verdict this afternoon in the trial of former basketball star Jayson Williams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravated manslaughter, not guilty or guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you find as to the charge...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The jury found him not guilty of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated assault in the fatal shooting of a limo driver, the most serious counts he faced. But he was convicted of four lesser charges, including evidence of witness tampering. No date was set for sentencing. His attorneys plan to appeal the guilty verdicts.

Signs of a comeback for one state's economy and the political implications could be huge.

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Stay tuned for "The Inside Edge." I'll tell you why Google's IPO may have a big political impact on this year's election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Time now for our weekly feature, "The Inside Edge" with political analyst Carlos Watson, who is joining us today from Mountain View, California.

Carlos, as we all know, a year ago tomorrow, the president landed aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, "Mission Accomplished" banner on the deck. This past week, he appeared together with the vice president before the 9/11 Commission. What are the ramifications at this point of those two events?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, ultimately, we're about to enter our most aggressive, most detailed and most serious conversation about the Iraq war that we've had yet.

In many ways, I think we'll look back and think that the 9/11 Commission questions, the recent speeches on Iraq, both from President Bush and Kerry, have been kind of sideshows to what I think will be a much more aggressive debate on whether or not any of this is achievable. Can we ultimately achieve a stable democracy or we will make some kind of other ultimate accommodation?

There will be tough questions I think about the budget, about the draft, about troops, and about international cooperation. And I think, for John Kerry, there's a big opportunity here. In many ways, you saw his speech today at Westminster College where he laid out some thoughts there. But what he's still missing is a bold and declarative phrase that says, here's who I am.

And you will remember that, in 1988, papa Bush, the first President Bush, did this by saying, no new taxes, you know, read my lips. I think there's an opportunity for John Kerry to do something like this on this matter and really distinguish himself for the an American people who still are getting to know him and still frankly have questions about the Iraq war.

BLITZER: All right, Carlos, you're in Silicon Valley, Mountain View, right now, the heart of Silicon Valley. And there's things happening in the so-called dot-com world out there that you think could have some political impact.

WATSON: Surprisingly, in the bluest of blue states, which California is, here in the Silicon Valley, there may be good news for President Bush as this election unfolds.

The Google IPO, which has been announced, which may raise billions of dollars for the Internet search company, ultimately may become the poster child for a revival, if you will, of the Silicon Valley economy, more people hiring, more consumers spending, may mean better numbers not only in the Silicon Valley, but frankly in California as a whole. And if that happens, you can imagine the ripple effect from the nation's largest state on national unemployment numbers.

Instead of 5.7 percent, over time, by the time we begin to reach the fall, you could see numbers that look a lot better. What this politically is that, instead of a debate about whether or not the economy is in recession or not, whether or not this is a growing economy or not, the ground may shift and President Bush may have a different economic conversation, one that is more focused on economic security and economic equity.

And, consequently, you may hear less about jobs, jobs, jobs, and you may hear more about things like health care, questions like pensions, and questions like outsourcing and economic fairness. So I think ultimately the Google IPO by itself won't produce one million new jobs. But I think in many ways it will be a signal moment that for a lot of people may change economic debate.

BLITZER: Everyone is going a little crazy with Google right now.

Carlos Watson, and if people want to read more, you have a very popular column out there on CNN.com. Tell us about it.

WATSON: Thanks to you, Wolf, the last couple weeks, we've been one of the most read pieces, CNN.com/Carlos. I talk a little bit about Google and also offer some interesting ideas on who could be, if you will, the Hail Mary vice presidential pick for John Kerry this year.

BLITZER: A good tease. People will go, rush out right now and Google, not necessarily Google. Go to CNN.com/Carlos.

Thanks very much, Carlos, for that.

WATSON: Good to see you.

BLITZER: The results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

A not-so-smooth arrival for Guard members aboard a Minnesota Air National Guard cargo plane. Look at this. The crew of the C-130 reported a problem with the plane's right landing gear and had to manually set it. But the gear collapsed shortly after the plane touched down. No one, thank God, was injured.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 30, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now, a top government counterterrorism adviser says there may be a terrorist still at large more dangerous than Osama bin Laden.
And, Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lays out a detailed plan to win in Iraq.

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): The Marines pull back but not out of Fallujah.

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: What we have there is an opportunity and not necessarily an agreement.

BLITZER: Can Saddam's soldiers help end the bloodshed?

Shocking images, Iraqis abused at the hands of U.S. troops.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated.

BLITZER: What will it do to America's image in the Arab world?

Walk out, why did they leave the Oval Office as the president met with the 9/11 panel?

BOB KERREY, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: I apologize to the families if they're offended by this.

BLITZER: I'll speak exclusively with Commissioner Bob Kerrey.

Michael Jackson speaks out.

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart.

BLITZER: The wraps are off a secret indictment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, April 30, 2004. BLITZER: It's been a bloody battleground and a suicide attack claimed the lives of two more Americans there today but there are signs of a possible settlement in Iraq's Sunni heartland city of Fallujah as U.S. Marines work with Saddam Hussein's former officers. It could be a model for other hotspots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Fallujah ravaged by weeks of combat. Now it looks like Iraqi security forces are taking some of the reins from U.S. Marines and patrolling the city of 200,000, Marines repositioned but not completely out of Fallujah.

ABIZAID: The opportunity is to build an Iraqi security force from former elements of the army that will work under the command of coalition forces.

BLITZER: Marines will integrate with Iraqi forces gradually handing over more responsibility for security in Fallujah. That means trying to disarm some insurgents, arrest others, and collect weapons but a stark reminder of the perils lurking in this area, a suicide car bomb kills two Marines and wounds six other just three miles outside Fallujah.

Can a similar deal be brokered in another dangerous city, Najaf, where U.S. forces stake their positions opposite the so-called Mehdi Army of renegade cleric Muqtada al-Sadr?

Coalition officials tell CNN they're trying to bring together local leaders to reach a deal for the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps to bolster security but in a weekly sermon, al-Sadr bolsters his hard line calling the United States the enemy of Islam.

MUQTADA AL-SADR, SHIITE CLERIC (through translator): Some people have asked me recently to tone down my words and to avoid escalation with the Americans. As they said, the escalation of the tone makes things worse as it irritates the enemy and, in consequence, they would direct their anger on us.

BLITZER: In al-Sadr's stronghold in Baghdad the body of an Iraq is found hanged, apparently tortured, and beaten, a sign on his chest reading Mehdi Army business.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Arab world woke up today to shocking photos that apparently show U.S. troops abusing detainees at a prison outside Baghdad. The pictures have led to charges against six United States soldiers and the images may have damaged the American mission in Iraq.

CNN's Ben Wedeman has reaction from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqis watch disturbing images of abuse and humiliation on the Arabiya Satellite News Network vividly depicting degradation of Iraqi detainees by U.S. soldiers in Abu Ghurayb prison outside Baghdad these images sending waves of revulsion through a conservative religious society that places a premium on dignity and modesty.

Abu Ghurayb prison, once a notorious symbol of Saddam Hussein's repression now under American control few Iraqis likely to miss the irony that these acts were allegedly committed by soldiers of the very country that styles itself as a champion of human rights.

"It's wrong, wrong, 100 percent and a crime" says Halil (ph). "You came to liberate us from an unjust dictator who killed and tortured us."

WEDEMAN: Coalition officials aren't mincing their words when it comes to these images the authenticity of which have not been independently verified.

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: And I'm not going to stand up here and try to apologize for what those soldiers did. As I've said before, those soldiers wear the same uniform as 150,000 other soldiers that are operating proudly and properly here in Iraq and those soldiers let us down. They simply let use down.

WEDEMAN: The U.S. military says six soldiers have been charged with abusing inmates as part of an ongoing criminal investigation that could lead to their court martial. The military also is conducting a thorough review of how Abu Ghuryab prison is run.

Rumors have swirled around Baghdad for months that abuse of Iraqi prisoners was rife in Abu Ghuryab and for many Iraqis confronted with these images those rumors have now been confirmed.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: The White House calls the acts shown in the photographs despicable and the president is mincing no words in offering his own reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I share a deep disgust that those prisoners were treated the way they were treated. Their treatment does not reflect the nature of the American people. That's not the way we do things in America. And so, I didn't like it one bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president is also promising disciplinary action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Those few people who did that do not reflect the nature of the men and women we sent overseas. That's not the way -- that's not the way the people are. It's not their character that are serving, that are serving our nation and the cause of freedom and there will be an investigation. I think it will be taken care of.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senator John Kerry today also reacted to those shocking images. In a statement he says he's "disturbed and troubled by the evidence of shameful mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners."

Kerry's statement adds this: "As Americans, we must stand tall for the rule of law and freedom everywhere but we cannot let the actions of a few overshadow the tremendous good work that thousands of soldiers are doing every day in Iraq and all over the world."

Contrasting images today from Iraq, those shocking prison photos could mean a new setback for the U.S. and its coalition partners even as pictures of American Marines shaking hands with Saddam Hussein's former soldiers could be a sign of some new progress.

Joining us now for some analysis of all of this retired U.S. Army General George Joulwan, former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, General Joulwan thanks very much for joining us.

You've been in battle. You know what it's like. You have prisoners, detainees who soldiers believe may have killed their friends and maybe that leads to what we've seen in these photos.

GEN. GEORGE JOULWAN, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Well, if these photos are accurate, and I believe they are, that is yet to be proven, we cannot condone this. I mean flat out you can't condone this and I will assure you that General Sanchez and General Abizaid, who I know very well, will take action here but they should have a fair trial but a speedy trial and this needs to be nipped in the bud. It's not indicative of how we conduct ourselves in combat or not but this is very serious and needs to be handled very quickly and very properly.

BLITZER: How often do you hear about these kinds of alleged abuses in battle?

JOULWAN: It varies. As the war went on in Vietnam we, you know, you saw your buddies being blown up. This has a psychological effect on some soldiers. This is where leadership comes in and there's no excuse for it, whether it's day one or five years later in a war there is no excuse for it.

It does get in the minds of soldiers and you have to constantly check and talk and that's where leadership comes in and, with good leadership, this can be prevented.

BLITZER: What do you make of this tentative deal, arrangement in Fallujah now, Marines pulling back somewhat. Saddam Hussein's former general now apparently allies of the U.S. in this arrangement.

JOULWAN: Well, I think if you would ask someone what should have been done a year ago the disbanding or the disillusion of the Iraqi Army I think was a mistake. I think they could help us. We're now trying to reassert that now to get the Iraqi Army more involved. However, it cuts both ways. We've had some examples of former policemen that were siding with the insurgents and not with the Americans, so it's yet to be seen but it is a first step where Iraqis have to start taking responsibility for security within these large towns and villages and that's what I think we're going to see but the jury is still out -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Do you think there's a possibility, a similar arrangement, if it works in Fallujah, could be achieve in Najaf, the holy Shiite city?

JOULWAN: I think we're going to see some of that but I would caution here that what we're seeing is something that was done on the ground and is yet to be proven. I'll wait here before I reserve judgment whether we should do it somewhere else.

I think there has to be a vetting of this in Fallujah to see before it takes place in Najaf but, clearly, the Iraqis politically as well as police and military need to start getting involved and we need to hold them accountable for what happens in these large cities.

BLITZER: Tomorrow it will be one year since the president was aboard the Abraham Lincoln, mission accomplished banner, major combat operations over. Looking at the situation as it exists today one year later, what's your recommendation? What needs to be done?

JOULWAN: As I've said often with you that, and this is not a Democratic issue or a Republican issue, this is an American issue. This concerns strategy of how you conduct yourself in this sort of situation.

And what has to happen once the war fight ends, once Baghdad falls, getting a secure environment is absolutely essential and the clarity here of the mission. What does that mean, stabilization? Sealing all the borders, making sure convoy routes are open and can run and are secure, disarming warring factions, et cetera.

And when you start listing that clarity, which should be done by our civilian authorities to the military that gives you the troop strength you need. In my view that was not done at the end of the war a year ago and we're still, we're suffering the consequences of that now.

BLITZER: General Joulwan we'll continue this conversation. Thanks very much.

JOULWAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: To our viewers here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Were you upset by pictures that appear to show Iraqi detainees being abused by U.S. troops?" You can vote right now, cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

From the war in Iraq to the war on terror hear from a man who has inside knowledge on the hunt for Osama bin Laden. I'll talk with U.S. counterterrorism coordinator Cofer Black.

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KERREY: I'm doing this on a voluntary basis. I've got a full- time job. I got a university to run and I have responsibilities there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: In the hot seat, 9/11 Commission member Bob Kerrey tells us why he walked out of the president's testimony yesterday, my exclusive interview with the former Nebraska Senator that's coming up next.

Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the earth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Michael Jackson enters his plea. The King of Pop indicted on ten counts, including a new very serious charge. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Former Democratic Senator Bob Kerrey is one of the 9/11 panel members who met with the president and the vice president yesterday in the Oval Office but Kerrey and panel Vice-Chairman Lee Hamilton left early citing prior commitments.

I pressed Kerry about that issue today in this first and exclusive interview since that meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Kerrey, thanks very much for joining us.

KERREY: Thank you.

BLITZER: A question a lot of people are asking right now why did you decide to leave the meeting with the president and the vice president early?

KERREY: Well, I'd had a conversation with the chairman at the beginning of the day and told him that I had a noon meeting with a Senator on the Hill and he said well we'll be done by 11:30. You won't need to cancel it.

So, when I'm sitting in the Oval Office at the end of the meeting, had to make a decision do I make a cell phone call to a Senator or get up and respectfully leave, which I did, and the president and I had a very nice exchange at the end.

He described a very moving thing actually for me about jogging with a young man who had lost his leg in Afghanistan and I thanked him for the work that he'd done for veterans' prosthesis in particular and left.

BLITZER: Because you were injured in Vietnam yourself. But don't you think Senator Pete Domenici would have understood, here you are at this historic meeting with the president and the vice president if you can late or even if you had to cancel?

KERREY: Maybe. You know it's possible, sure. I mean, you know, you're sitting there making a judgment, so I mean as I said I detected no irritation on the part of the president. I think he perfectly well understood and particularly Congressman Hamilton had already said that he was going to be leaving at the end and I thought it was an appropriate thing to do.

BLITZER: The tabloids, at least in New York, the "New York Post" and I'll hold it up and show our viewers has a pretty tough headline "Oval Office Insult," two 9/11 Dems walk out on Bush. You've seen that cover.

KERREY: Well, the story actually is accurate. I mean the headline is just incorrect. We didn't insult the president. We were very respectful, not just upon departure but throughout the meeting and the president and the vice president did an exceptional job of doing something on a voluntary basis and I think helped the commission a great deal.

And, as you know, Wolf, I mean it's a presidential campaign and it's, you know, it's a very partisan moment and what I have to do is keep my partisan juices intact and not respond to stuff like that because I do think that the commission's got a good chance of producing a consensus report.

And I think the president and the vice president's meeting with us yesterday is, I think, going to help a great deal. I was quite surprised, frankly, by a number of things that we learned in the meeting and I think it helped a lot.

So, I just have to keep a cool head. I don't always do that and stay calm in this moment and not let myself be whipsawed by a headline in the "New York Post." As I said, the story itself I think pretty accurately reflected the choice that I made during the meeting.

BLITZER: A lot of conservative talk show, radio talk show hosts are having a field day with this as well. But more importantly than them, what about the families of the 9/11 victims? Some of them have been quoted in some of the papers, some of the TV stations as saying you should have stayed. What do you say to that?

KERREY: Well, I apologize to them. The meeting was almost over. Look, I'm doing this on a voluntary basis. I've got a full-time job. I got a university to run and I have responsibilities there and I left my university for already well over 100 hours of work to try to do my job on this commission.

So, I apologize to the families if they were offended by this but I do think that I've represented the families' interests and did so in the questioning to the president.

And I don't think that I failed in my duties to be a good commissioner by getting up at the tail end of a meeting and keeping a meeting that I had with a Senator to discuss an appropriation for my university.

I just respectfully disagree with those who think that I did, although in some cases I don't respectfully disagree. I simply refuse to take the bait of conservative columnists and others who, you know, want to gin up a partisan argument.

They actually are trying to do something odd, which is brand the commission as a partisan organization. It's true under law there are five Democrats and five Republicans. We didn't do that. Somebody else wrote the law and created it that way but we've held together.

We've avoided I think quite well talking about either our interviews with President Clinton or with President Bush and I think we increased the chances of being able to produce a general consensus report and fulfill the mission, both to the families and the rest of America as a consequence.

BLITZER: The other criticism that you've heard about when you were on "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart the other night, the number three Republican in the House, Roy Blunt, the Majority Whip, was very critical of you for having some fun at the expense of the 9/11 Commission.

KERREY: Well, I don't know what to say to Congressman Blunt. I mean I think the Republicans in the Congress need to calm down and take a deep breath here. I mean, look, this commission will do everything in its power to produce a bipartisan report.

And part of what we have to do, what I have to do as a Democrat, is not take the bait of Roy Blunt or John Cornyn or somebody else who is offended by something that I do on a comedy show, for God's sake.

So, you know, I'm sorry that his nose is out of joint but frankly I'm not terribly concerned about it. I'll worry about working with Republican and Democratic commissioners to try to do the job and then I look forward to producing a final report, so I can get back to work.

BLITZER: Bottom line of the meeting yesterday with the president and the vice president, it was productive, you learned something?

KERREY: Yes, a great deal. I mean first of all I would under no circumstances subpoena the president. I do not think he needed to appear. He didn't need to testify under oath. I disagree with those who were calling for that.

And so, to my mind both he and the vice president volunteered to come and for all the talk about how it was improper for them to be coming together, the fact that they were together helped. The president was very much in charge. He was very much engaged. He answered those questions that he could and didn't answer those that he couldn't.

So, I mean I thought he did a very good job and I do think that both of their observations during the two and a half hours that we spent with them yesterday will increase the chances that the report fulfills the requirement under law that we have.

BLITZER: Senator Kerrey thanks very much for joining us.

KERRY: You're welcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A deal reached in Fallujah but no end to the violence, at least not yet. I'll speak live with a journalist embedded with U.S. Marines in that city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead and we face tough times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Bush reflecting on harsh realities in Iraq one year after declaring major combat over.

Plus, the al Qaeda member believed to be even more dangerous than Osama bin Laden. We'll hear from U.S. Counterterrorism Coordinator Cofer Black.

Verdict reached in the manslaughter trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams. We'll go live to the courthouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tomorrow marks the one year anniversary of what many consider to be perhaps the most controversial remarks on the Iraq War. Standing on the deck of an American aircraft carrier, President Bush declared major combat operations over. The president today defended his words and his policy.

Joining us now live our White House Correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, in his brief remarks to reporters today the president used the word "strategy" three times. That is because his critics say that he has none when it comes to Iraq dating back to a statement he made one year ago aboard an aircraft carrier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): May 1, 2003, aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, President Bush declared major combat over in Iraq. One year and more than 600 American casualties later, he defended those remarks.

BUSH: I did give the speech from the carrier saying that we had achieved an important objective, that we had accomplished a mission which was the removal of Saddam Hussein.

MALVEAUX: But the banner behind the president "mission accomplished" signaled to some Americans and Bush critics a swift win in Iraq. As the June 30 deadline to transfer power to the Iraqi people nears, insurgencies in Fallujah and Najaf threaten to undermine stability in the country and this April proved to be the bloodiest month ever in Iraq with at least 126 Americans killed.

BUSH: I also said on that carrier that day that there was still difficult work ahead.

MALVEAUX: For Mr. Bush's critics, though, his declarations that day have come to symbolize the administration's failures.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Our mission was far from accomplished then and it's far from accomplished now.

SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Najaf is smoldering. Fallujah is burning and there is no exit in sight.

MALVEAUX: Since Mr. Bush's speech his chief political strategist Carl Rove and other top advisers have acknowledged they regret the "mission accomplished" banner overhead but they say the president's message has been consistent that bringing democracy to Iraq is tough work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: And that work, of course, has taken its toll on the president's approval rating. It was last year about this time that latest CNN-USA Gallup poll showing that it was about 76 percent Americans believed that the president was handling the Iraq situation well. Now it is down to 48 percent -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House thanks Suzanne very much.

Senator John Kerry today delivered a detailed policy speech on Iraq. He repeated a charge he's made throughout his presidential campaign, much more needs to be done in Iraq before the mission is truly accomplished. The Senator spoke at Westminster in Fulton, Missouri only four days after the vice president appeared there and sharply criticized Kerry's leadership.

Joining us now from New York with more our National Correspondent Kelly Wallace -- Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, aides acknowledge there were really two parts to Kerry's strategy in this speech, one stay away from anything that might be construed as Bush bashing and, two, flush out his ideas as he is being pressed to offer his solutions, what he would do differently to deal with the situation in Iraq.

He spoke in the place where Winston Churchill gave what became known as his "Iron Curtain Speech" nearly 60 years ago and there Senator Kerry acknowledged that one year ago tomorrow, President Bush declared mission accomplished in Iraq.

But the Senator appeared to be trying to take a high minded approach. Again, there was no real Bush bashing. He did say though: "It is time to put pride aside to build a stable Iraq."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a moment of truth in Iraq, not just for this administration, the country, the Iraqi people but for the world. This may be our last chance to get it right and we...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Here's what Kerry says is his plan for Iraq. Number one get NATO forces on the ground to internationalize the coalition. Two, appoint a U.N. high commissioner to oversee the entire political transition. And number three step up the training of the Iraqi security forces.

Now, the Bush-Cheney campaign responding quickly saying that John Kerry is not offering any new alternatives and that much of what he proposes the Bush administration is already doing. And this does point out a bit of a political challenge for John Kerry because there is not a big difference between John Kerry and President Bush when it comes to this. Both men believe the United States needs to remain in Iraq and U.S. troops need to remain there until there is stability in the country -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Kelly Wallace in New York, thanks, Kelly, very much.

Coalition forces push for a pullout. But with two more U.S. troops killed today, questions remain about whether Fallujah is really ready for a full retreat. Up next, we'll have a situation report from an embedded reporter on ground in Fallujah.

In court and indicted. The king of pop enters a plea. Where does the Michael Jackson case goes from here?

And SARS scare. The virus is back and it's just claimed its first death of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

U.S. forces start an ambitious plan to pull out of Fallujah so Iraqi troops can take the lead. We'll have a live report from the scene. That's coming up momentarily. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.

California is pulling the plug on some new high-tech voting machines. The secretary of state is barring the new devices from the November election in four counties because of security concerns. He also says he wants an investigation into whether the machine's manufacturer might be guilty of fraud.

Republican Senator John McCain is blasting the Sinclair Broadcast Group for ordering its ABC stations not to air tonight's "Nightline." The show carries the names and photos of U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war. Sinclair says "Nightline" -- quote -- "appears to be motivated by a political agenda designed to undermine the U.S. efforts in Iraq."

Back to our top story now, the arrangement between U.S. Marines and Saddam Hussein's former soldiers that may bring some stability to the flash point city of Fallujah.

Joining us now on the phone is "Los Angeles Times" reporter Tony Perry. He's embedded with the U.S. Marines in Fallujah.

Tony, thanks very much once again for joining us; 24 hours ago, you accurately reported what was about to happen. Today, this tentative deal appears to have gone through. Tell our viewers what's happening now.

TONY PERRY, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, two out of the three Marine battalions that are inside the city are already pulling out. The third one should be pulling out soon. The middle of next week, there probably should be no Marines left inside the city of Fallujah.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi army is moving in. Hundreds of soldiers, some who served previously, some who have just enlisted are scheduled to start work tomorrow, the next day, and the day after that. So the deal seems to be finalized and is in the works.

BLITZER: These Iraqi soldiers, some of them served obviously under Saddam Hussein. Some were even supposedly generals in the so- called Republican Guard. Is that right?

PERRY: That's exactly right. They're experienced soldiers. They served. They fought against the United States, maybe in both wars, and now they're going to serve to protect -- if they follow through on what they say, they're going to serve to protect Westerners coming in and out of the city of Fallujah.

BLITZER: How do the Marines -- and you're speaking to them day by day, hour by hour -- how are they reacting to this?

PERRY: Well, I think there is a level of disappointment that they weren't able to finish the mission, that is, strike at the heart of the insurgent stronghold downtown Fallujah.

But there's combat yet to comfort Marines in the rural and suburban areas outside Fallujah. And also there is a sense that if the Iraqi army doesn't get the job done, doesn't wipe out the insurgents, doesn't create a stable, secure situation, the Marines will be right back into Fallujah. So while the Marines are disappointed they didn't get to follow through, they know there's a lot of fighting left to do in this country.

BLITZER: Tony Perry has been doing some outstanding reporting for us, for "The Los Angeles Times."

Thanks, Tony, very much. We'll check back with you clearly.

Somewhere, in some part of the world, al Qaeda and other terrorists are planning attacks against the Western world. Few people understand that danger more than Cofer Black. He once worked for the CIA and is now the State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism.

Earlier today, I spoke with him about a new report detailing what threats are out there right now and how serious they are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As you well know, having studied al Qaeda for so many years, including when you were director of operations over at the CIA, this is an organization sometimes loosely coordinated. They wait a year or two, three years, before major attacks in order to get it right. How concerned are you that we may be on the eve of another major attack?

COFER BLACK, COUNTERTERRORISM COORDINATOR, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, those that are involved with counterterrorism, the practitioners, are always very concerned. They tend to be very paranoid people. They don't get much sleep.

But they are on it, and from what I know, they're doing a great job of it. We always have to be concerned. I think it's very important for your audience to appreciate that the al Qaeda organization of the 9/11 period, 70 percent, over 70 percent of their leadership has been arrested, detained or killed. More than 3,400 of their operatives and supporters have also been detained and put out of an action.

So you have an organization, the 9/11 organization that's under catastrophic stress. We're after the survivors. And, as the president says, we're hunting them down. Also, the corollary to this is, there are localized groups that watch the media and access the Internet that are the victims of incitement. And so some of these are rising up. And we're identifying and engaging them.

The good news there is that they don't have much operational experience. They make a lot of mistakes. And with the effort of the international community, the will that's being shown by the various governments and each country helping the other in terms of capacity, we've got the edge and the advantage and we plan to address these things aggressively.

BLITZER: I want to get some specific groups. But the loosely coordinated elements, sometimes not even coordinated, but simply sympathetic to the goals of al Qaeda, in your opinion, are there such cells currently inside the United States?

BLACK: The FBI and American law enforcement is who really looks at these issues very closely. And I would have to defer to them.

But I will tell you, every possible lead is followed up. The smallest piece of minutiae is followed up aggressively. And I have great confidence in the capabilities of our law enforcement. I have good confidence in our intelligence and security services operating overseas. These two coming together give us the best chance to defend the homeland. As the president of the United States has said, we are in a war. We are potential victims, but we're aggressively defending ourselves and going after these guys to get them before they get us, so we protect us, men, women and children.

BLITZER: Do you believe Osama bin Laden and his No. 2, Ayman al- Zawahiri, are still capable of plotting, of planning a terrorist strike against U.S. interests either here in the United States or elsewhere around the world?

BLACK: Well, they're both certainly capable of it. There is a difference between the two.

Zawahiri is certainly in the field and operating, has lines of communication to his subordinates and is planning attacks as we speak, and we're after him and we're going to get him. Osama bin Laden, on the other hand, is increasingly more of a figurehead. He's very defensive. He knows we're after him. And he spends most of his time hiding from us.

When I think of Osama bin Laden these days, he has limited contact with the outside world. Now, again, he will release a tape that we all look at and study, but he tends to be very defensive. I have a picture akin to Saddam Hussein hiding in a hole. And probably, that's an accurate picture.

BLITZER: Now, let me just get this straight. You believe that the No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is potentially more dangerous to the United States right now than Osama bin Laden?

BLACK: Well, I think Zawahiri represents more of a threat comparatively between the two men. He tends to be more operational than Osama bin Laden. Osama bin Laden increasingly is more of a figurehead. He has reduced levels of communication with those of his followers that are left to communicate with.

So I think there is a bit of a difference. And I would say your audience should probably consider Zawahiri a significant threat, Osama bin Laden comparatively more of a figurehead at this point for right now.

BLITZER: What about Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- i know the names sometimes get confusing -- supposedly plotting all of these, at least a lot of these terror strikes, suicide bombings, car bombings, in Iraq itself? What about him? Is he associated directly with al Qaeda? BLACK: There is this clear association. We should consider him an associate of Osama bin Laden.

His operational profile is one that goes back a long way. We've been interested in him and following him for a considerable period of time. He's particularly interested in what's described as weapons of mass destruction. He was key in setting up labs, doing things like ricins, poisons, things like that. He continues to operate at a pretty good level, but to operate, you have to communicate. You have to communicate with your associates, your subordinates.

You have to move material around. And we're after him, and his days are numbered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Cofer Black speaking with me earlier today, the State Department's coordinator for counterterrorism.

A verdict is reached in the trial of former NBA star Jayson Williams.

Plus, Michael Jackson's back in court arraigned today on charges of child molestation. The king of pop enters a plea.

An economic upswing, how positive changes in Silicon Valley could impact the presidential election. We'll get "The Inside Edge With Carlos Watson."

Safe, but not without a major scare. Wait until you see what happened to this military cargo plane upon landing.

We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Hundreds of Indonesians clash with police over the rearrest of a Muslim cleric accused of heading a terror group with links to al Qaeda. Dozens were injured. Police say they have new evidence that Abu Bakar Bashir is the leader of the Jemaah Islamiya and that he approved several bombings, including the one in Bali two years ago that killed more than 200 people.

SARS in China. Chinese health officials confirm a woman who died last week had severe acuity respiratory syndrome. It's the world's first confirmed SARS death this year. The victim was the mother of a Beijing laboratory worker who contracted the virus on the job.

A bigger European Union. Europeans are celebrating tomorrow's historic expansion of the E.U. Ten nations are joining the current 15 members. Most were formerly part of the Soviet-dominated Warsaw Pact.

Marathon chess match. Cuba has broken its own world record for the number of people playing chess at the same time in the same place; 13,000 players, young and hold alike, took part. Cuba set the previous record in 2002 when more than 11,300 people played 5,660 simultaneous games in Havana's Revolution Square.

And that's our look around the world.

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BLITZER: Singer Michael Jackson pleaded not guilty to all 10 grand jury indictment counts relating to child sex charges. Some charges we had already heard about, but there were a few surprises today.

Let's get some more from our national correspondent Gary Tuchman, who is covering the story for us in Santa Maria -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, once again, it was a court date combined with a pop culture event.

Hundreds of Michael Jackson fans gathered outside the courthouse to greet the king of pop as he entered for this very important court hearing. It was a much different arrival than his last arrival in January. He was 20 minutes late this past January for his first appearance, made the judge very angry. Today, he was 50 minutes early as he walked inside. The judge wasn't angry, but he had bad news for Michael Jackson.

The grand jury has handed up an indictment with one additional charge. And it's a very serious charge. In addition to the nine original counts of lewd acts toward a child and supplying that child with alcohol, the additional charge that Michael Jackson conspired to commit child abduction, false imprisonment and extortion. The exactly details of why those are mentioned, we don't know yet, because the grand jury transcript is sealed.

There will be another hearing in four weeks to decide how much to make public, how much if any. Anyway, it was not good news for Michael Jackson, who came out and spoke after the hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEFENDANT: I would like to thank the fans around the world for your love and support from every corner of the Earth. My family has been very supportive. My brother Randy has been incredible. I want to thank the community of Santa Maria. I want you to know that I love the community of Santa Maria very much. It's my community. I love the people. I will always love the people.

My children were born in this community. My home is in this community. I will always love this community from the bottom of my heart. That's why I moved here.

Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Michael Jackson waved, blew kisses, gave the peace sign before he pulled out of the driveway and went back in the direction of his Neverland Ranch. We should find out in four weeks at that next hearing when a trial date will be -- Wolf, back to you.

BLITZER: Gary Tuchman, thanks for that.

A split verdict this afternoon in the trial of former basketball star Jayson Williams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravated manslaughter, not guilty or guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you find as to the charge...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The jury found him not guilty of aggravated manslaughter and aggravated assault in the fatal shooting of a limo driver, the most serious counts he faced. But he was convicted of four lesser charges, including evidence of witness tampering. No date was set for sentencing. His attorneys plan to appeal the guilty verdicts.

Signs of a comeback for one state's economy and the political implications could be huge.

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Stay tuned for "The Inside Edge." I'll tell you why Google's IPO may have a big political impact on this year's election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Time now for our weekly feature, "The Inside Edge" with political analyst Carlos Watson, who is joining us today from Mountain View, California.

Carlos, as we all know, a year ago tomorrow, the president landed aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln, "Mission Accomplished" banner on the deck. This past week, he appeared together with the vice president before the 9/11 Commission. What are the ramifications at this point of those two events?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think, ultimately, we're about to enter our most aggressive, most detailed and most serious conversation about the Iraq war that we've had yet.

In many ways, I think we'll look back and think that the 9/11 Commission questions, the recent speeches on Iraq, both from President Bush and Kerry, have been kind of sideshows to what I think will be a much more aggressive debate on whether or not any of this is achievable. Can we ultimately achieve a stable democracy or we will make some kind of other ultimate accommodation?

There will be tough questions I think about the budget, about the draft, about troops, and about international cooperation. And I think, for John Kerry, there's a big opportunity here. In many ways, you saw his speech today at Westminster College where he laid out some thoughts there. But what he's still missing is a bold and declarative phrase that says, here's who I am.

And you will remember that, in 1988, papa Bush, the first President Bush, did this by saying, no new taxes, you know, read my lips. I think there's an opportunity for John Kerry to do something like this on this matter and really distinguish himself for the an American people who still are getting to know him and still frankly have questions about the Iraq war.

BLITZER: All right, Carlos, you're in Silicon Valley, Mountain View, right now, the heart of Silicon Valley. And there's things happening in the so-called dot-com world out there that you think could have some political impact.

WATSON: Surprisingly, in the bluest of blue states, which California is, here in the Silicon Valley, there may be good news for President Bush as this election unfolds.

The Google IPO, which has been announced, which may raise billions of dollars for the Internet search company, ultimately may become the poster child for a revival, if you will, of the Silicon Valley economy, more people hiring, more consumers spending, may mean better numbers not only in the Silicon Valley, but frankly in California as a whole. And if that happens, you can imagine the ripple effect from the nation's largest state on national unemployment numbers.

Instead of 5.7 percent, over time, by the time we begin to reach the fall, you could see numbers that look a lot better. What this politically is that, instead of a debate about whether or not the economy is in recession or not, whether or not this is a growing economy or not, the ground may shift and President Bush may have a different economic conversation, one that is more focused on economic security and economic equity.

And, consequently, you may hear less about jobs, jobs, jobs, and you may hear more about things like health care, questions like pensions, and questions like outsourcing and economic fairness. So I think ultimately the Google IPO by itself won't produce one million new jobs. But I think in many ways it will be a signal moment that for a lot of people may change economic debate.

BLITZER: Everyone is going a little crazy with Google right now.

Carlos Watson, and if people want to read more, you have a very popular column out there on CNN.com. Tell us about it.

WATSON: Thanks to you, Wolf, the last couple weeks, we've been one of the most read pieces, CNN.com/Carlos. I talk a little bit about Google and also offer some interesting ideas on who could be, if you will, the Hail Mary vice presidential pick for John Kerry this year.

BLITZER: A good tease. People will go, rush out right now and Google, not necessarily Google. Go to CNN.com/Carlos.

Thanks very much, Carlos, for that.

WATSON: Good to see you.

BLITZER: The results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we return.

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BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.

A not-so-smooth arrival for Guard members aboard a Minnesota Air National Guard cargo plane. Look at this. The crew of the C-130 reported a problem with the plane's right landing gear and had to manually set it. But the gear collapsed shortly after the plane touched down. No one, thank God, was injured.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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