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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Pentagon Sends More Troops to Iraq; Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Blames Zionists for Terror Attacks; Interview With Hillary Clinton

Aired May 04, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now extended stay, the Pentagon brass says a beefed up U.S. military force will be needed through next year in Iraq.
And stunning remarks by Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince on recent terror attacks, he's blaming Zionists. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Revulsion as more allegations emerge about the abuse of prisoners in Iraq lawmakers are furious.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I'm truly outraged and repulsed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is as serious a problem of breakdown in discipline as I've ever observed.

BLITZER: The Pentagon is put on the spot.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American.

BLITZER: Can America undo the damage? I'll ask Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Jeff Sessions, both of the Armed Services Committee.

THOMAS HAMILL: Thank you all very much and God bless.

BLITZER: Headed home, new details about the escape of an American prisoner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was able to push the door open to get a look outside of the building and saw the U.S. vehicles.

BLITZER: And a warning to parents why your overweight kids may face serious health risks in years to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, May 4, 2004.

BLITZER: Hello from New York City. Sickening, outrageous, despicable just some of the words being used by the Bush administration to describe those shocking images of abuse at an American-run prison in Iraq.

As the United States launches an all-out effort at damage control, we'll go live to our National Security Correspondent David Ensor.

And to CNN's Ben Wedeman, he's in Baghdad where a new prison commander says changes are being made right now.

But we begin with our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, today those pictures put Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in the uncomfortable position of having to distinguish the actions of U.S. soldiers from the regime of Saddam Hussein who he said was guilty of murder and torture.

Rumsfeld said that what happened at this prison was an exception and then he said the pattern and practice of Saddam Hussein was to do exactly that. He said equating the two is a fundamental misunderstanding of what took place but, again, he denounced the actions of those soldiers in the strongest terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: Let there be no doubt that this matter will be pursued properly under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un- American. Any who engaged in such action let down their comrades who serve honorably each day and they let down their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now, members of Congress are irate that they're just now being provided with this Army report already seen by CNN and other news organizations that details "egregious acts" and "numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses."

That's the language from General Antonio Taguba, who also detailed some of the examples of things that had happened, "pouring cold water on naked detainees," he wrote, "sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light or a broomstick, male military police guard having sex with a female detainee." Those and other allegations in that report just now being provided to Congress.

The Pentagon today also acknowledged that while they insist this is not a widespread problem there are 35 investigations into abuse of prisoners in Afghanistan or Iraq.

They say that 25 of those involve the deaths of detainees and, of those, 12 are said to be natural causes but there are two cases in which Americans were charged with homicide -- Wolf. BLITZER: Jamie, amid all of this prisoner abuse scandal there's word now of troop levels in Iraq this year and beyond. What's the latest on that front?

MCINTYRE: Well, General Abizaid, the U.S. Central Commander, had said that if the situation didn't get better in Iraq, he was going to want to maintain the 135,000 troops there at that level for some time and today the Pentagon said yes.

They've gotten that request from General Abizaid and they're now alerting troops to be going in the summer so that they can maintain the level about 20,000 more than the U.S. had planned for at this time.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, Jamie thanks very much.

The Bush administration clearly concerned that the prisoner abuse scandal is hurting America's image in the Arab world and, in fact, beyond. Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor is standing by with that part of the story -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they are indeed concerned, that is putting it mildly and they are seeking to address their response to the region, trying to show openness and more than a little humility.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): On Al-Jazeera television and other Arabic language networks, Bush administration officials fanned out to limit the damage from the global backlash against the U.S. for the humiliating photos of Iraqi prisoners.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We have a democratic system for holding people...

ENSOR: People will see, said Condoleezza Rice that we are determined to get to the bottom of what happened. At the Pentagon briefing, Secretary Rumsfeld appeared aware his remarks were broadcasting live well beyond U.S. borders.

RUMSFELD: The United States of America is a wonderful country and the overwhelming majority of the people.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: While we deplore this and while we are all stunned and shocked that our young people could do this, let's not forget what most of our young people are doing in service to the nation and in service to the Iraqi people.

ENSOR: But officials concede that the TV interviews are only damage control and the damage will be great.

REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: A picture is worth 1,000 words and this -- these pictures, these horrible, despicable pictures have undone thousands of acts of kindness and courage in Iraq by American soldiers and civilians. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: And the photos come on top of Fallujah and Najaf and Sharon's Gaza plans endorsement by President Bush. Administration officials concede America's reputation in the Mid East region is at a low point.

In Iraq, they say, U.S. assistance will soon be creating 20,000 reconstruction jobs and Iraqis will soon be running their country again. The hope is the image of this country in that region will start to get better -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, what are your sources at the CIA saying about the CIA's role in these prison interrogations?

ENSOR: They're saying that the CIA had nothing to do at all and wasn't even aware of the interrogations that you see in those photographs. There were, however, some other prisoners who were interrogated during that time frame by CIA officers and there is, in fact, a couple of other investigations by the CIA Inspector General into allegations of abuses but there's no clear abuses uncovered and made public thus far -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David Ensor in Washington thanks, David, very much.

The new U.S. military commander of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison says he's put a stop to what he calls aberrant practices.

Let's go to CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Behind the walls of this prison, the U.S. military says it's cleaning house following mounting international condemnation of American treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

According to a recent internal Army report, Abu Ghraib is overcrowded and inadequately staffed with poorly trained personnel. Sixty percent of the inmates represent no threat to society and many of them are being held indefinitely due to bad record keeping.

Investigators are looking into whether the abuse represents a systemic or widespread problem. Assigned with fixing all this is Major General Jeffrey Miller, formerly in charge of the Guantanamo Detention Center, a facility that itself has been widely criticized by human rights groups.

Tuesday Miller announced that the use of hooding, sleep deprivation and forcing inmates to stay in uncomfortable positions for long periods of time has been discontinued, that the prison population will be reduced from its current 3,800 to somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000, and that the chain of command at the prison will be streamlined to integrate detention and interrogation.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WEDEMAN: But, Wolf, none of these actions were enough because we've seen this evening that the Iraqi Governing Council's Minister for Human Rights has resigned in protest over this abuse scandal.

BLITZER: Ben, I assume the Iraqi news media, print as well as television, radio that this is the dominant story but, correct me if I'm wrong, is it?

WEDEMAN: Well, actually it's not and we saw that even though these pictures initially came out at the end of last week they only gradually showed up in the Iraqi media. I was speaking with Iraqi editors some of them saying that these pictures are simply too offensive for Iraqi sensibilities.

But I think they've seen that as this story has snowballed overseas they're more and more interested and we're seeing now increasing interest among Iraqis. They're talking about it and we're expecting, in fact, a very large demonstration outside Abu Ghraib Prison tomorrow.

BLITZER: Ben Wedeman in Baghdad for us. We'll be covering that demonstration tomorrow. Thanks very much, Ben, for that.

With powerful Senators now calling for hearings on the abuse of some Iraqi prisoners, we'll talk with members of the committee that would hold those hearings, including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. That's coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: Leadership has to be responsible and held accountable and that is not just in the prison in Baghdad. That goes all the way up the chain of command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMILL: Glad to be back to an American installation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Former hostage Thomas Hamill makes his first public statement since escaping his Iraqi captors. His story is coming up.

And, a Saudi Prince says he knows who's behind recent terror attacks in his kingdom. He says it's not necessarily al Qaeda but Zionists. You'll hear his accusation. That's coming up as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Why is Congress so upset over the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal? We'll speak with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton about the bipartisan call for hearings when we continue in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There are so many allegations whirling around this situation that we must have a public hearing with the secretary of defense testifying in order to clear up all of these allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: There is clearly outrage in the U.S. Congress over the images of abuse in Iraq and some U.S. lawmakers are upset with what they say is the slow response by both the Pentagon and the Bush administration.

Just a short while ago, I spoke with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of the Armed Services Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Clinton thanks very much for joining us. I know you're a member of the Armed Services Committee. How surprised were you and your colleagues by word of this prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq?

CLINTON: We were shocked, Wolf. There had been no notice to anyone on the committee, no briefing, not even an inkling and we've had a number of meetings with Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Wolfowitz, other civilian leaders from the Pentagon, as well as military.

And not a person gave us any indication that there was this ongoing problem that there had been a study commissioned and that the study had been completed and that the Pentagon knew the results of the study until the article by Seymour Hirsch was published.

BLITZER: Is it your opinion that people at the highest levels of the Pentagon, the U.S. military knew about this or they were kept in the dark themselves?

CLINTON: Well, that's one of the questions we have to answer. That's why we are demanding public hearings with Secretary Rumsfeld as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the information forthcoming so far has been totally insufficient. They have had a lot of contradictory answers to questions.

There's the story of General Myers calling CBS and talking to Dan Rather and asking that they not go forward with their own report about prison abuse. There's other indications that some people knew, other people didn't. Some people had vague ideas. They hadn't seen the report.

It doesn't matter. I mean the bottom line is that leadership has to be responsible and held accountable and that is not just in the prison in Baghdad. That goes all the way up the chain of command. BLITZER: You met with top officials from the Pentagon, from the U.S. Army, earlier today, the Senate Armed Services Committee. Did they give you some good explanation of what happened?

CLINTON: Well, of course, that was a closed door hearing, so I'm not at liberty to talk about it, which is why we must have a public hearing as soon as possible and a number of my colleagues left that hearing and demanded that we move forward, that Secretary Rumsfeld appear in public and certainly Chairman Warner and Ranking Member Levin had made it very clear that they intend to hold that hearing as soon as possible.

BLITZER: Are you getting any sense that steps are being taken now in Iraq at prisons, in Afghanistan, at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba to try to do something about this situation?

CLINTON: Well, we've been given assurances that steps are being taken but, again, we need the facts. We need to know the results of the investigation. And, you know Wolf, this is not only a horrible series of events and terrible dereliction of duty and responsibility among some of our military but it also puts all of our soldiers and Marines at risk.

This is not just about doing the right thing on behalf of Iraqi prisoners and righting the wrongs that have been inflicted on them and sending a very clear message to the Iraqi people and to the world that this is an aberration, that this is not the way the United States military is expected to behave and certainly it was a small minority.

But this raises very difficult questions about the future safety of our own soldiers and Marines and it also calls into even higher relief the ongoing concerns many of us have about these private contractors. We can't even get a straight story as to who was in charge.

Were they civilians within the military? Were they civilians outside the military? Was it the military chain of command? This illustrates that there are many, many unanswered questions about the use of private contractors and the apparently confusing and unclear chain of command at work but my...

BLITZER: Let me press you on one point. How specifically does it endanger U.S. military personnel?

CLINTON: Well, from my perspective any time you have a public display like we've now seen not just on our own television stations, such as yours, but literally around the world that undermines the ability of all of our troops to do the job that they are intending to do.

And, you know, I want to make it absolutely clear that we will get to the bottom of this. We will conduct a thorough, public investigation. All people who are in any way responsible will be held accountable and that the vast majority of our young men and women who are serving, whether it's active duty, Guard, or Reserve, are living up to the expectations that we all have for them. So, I don't want their reputation or their safety undermined by those who might be inflamed who previously weren't because of this incident to join the insurgency, to perhaps take out, you know, personal revenge against any individual American, military or civilian. This is criminal conduct. This is absolutely unacceptable and we will get to the bottom of it.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton, but as you know in wartime, there are proven, there are used methods of interrogation including hooding, putting hoods over the heads of prisoners, prisoner sleep deprivation, food deprivation, humiliation. These have been used for as long as prisoners in wars have been interrogated. Should the U.S. rethink those methods?

CLINTON: Well, first of all, Wolf, there is the Geneva Convention about the treatment of prisoners of war and there is protocol that certainly members of the Intelligence Committee and others have been briefed on as to what is expected with respect to interrogations carried out in the name of the United States.

I don't care whether it's military or civilian. Anyone acting on behalf of our government is supposed to abide by certain rules and regulations. Clearly, there are interrogation methods that are deemed appropriate but what we have seen on our television screens in no way can be considered appropriate or necessary or frankly even effective.

So, I think that there are rules that every soldier is supposed to be briefed on. Obviously, those who are in some role of responsibility with respect to interrogation are expected to know even more about what the lines are and where they can and cannot cross. What we've seen in the last several days and what's been reported in the press is absolutely unacceptable as interrogation techniques in time of war.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton thanks very much for joining us.

CLINTON: Thank you very much, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should the U.S. Congress hold hearings on the alleged abuse by the U.S. military at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq?" You can vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

While you're there though, I'd love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments anytime. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Up next we'll speak live with a Republican Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama. He'll join us with his take on the prisoner abuse scandal and what Congress' role should be.

Also, you may not believe who a Saudi prince is blaming for the terror attacks in his country.

And news for your health, important news, a new study out today sounding alarm bells for the nation's children about a problem that could cause serious health issues a few years down the road. You need to know this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

We just heard from Democratic Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and, while the outrage over the abuse in Iraq cuts across party lines, let's get the view of a key Republican member of the Senate Armed Services Committee as well.

Joining us now live from Capitol Hill, Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator thanks very much for joining us. You were at that briefing earlier today behind closed doors. What's your bottom line assessment of what's going on?

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, we've got a real problem. It's a clear problem of public relations, particularly for the people of Iraq and it's a clear violation of the standards we expect of our military.

I have to say the military moved promptly. A single soldier complained and a general was put on the case to investigate it immediately and he produced this report.

Unfortunately, no one seemed to have figured out how to release it and how to bring forward the bad news that was going to have to be brought forward and, as a results, it's been worse I think than otherwise would have been the case.

BLITZER: When you say the military acted promptly, that report by that major general was completed in February, I believe Senator Sessions. What has been done since February to get to the bottom of this?

SESSIONS: Well, a soldier complained January 13 and I think several days later a general was put in charge of this. I think after that report was completed there has been confusion about what to do about it. Of course, six soldiers have been charged already and the matter continues to be investigated but they did fail, I think, in figuring how to go from there and what to do.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, they didn't even brief your committee, according to several members including the chairman and the ranking member. Senator Clinton just said it. They didn't brief your committee about this at least until now.

SESSIONS: You're absolutely correct and I think they were confused about this and did not handle it as they should have and it's cause for much more concern from that point of view than otherwise would have been the case. I'm just saying the military position is this is not acceptable behavior. They went after a senior officer for firing a gun to scare someone and even had people complain at him for that.

They are not standing by and allowing this to occur but they have failed, I think, to handle it in a way that would have caused the Iraqi people to be more understanding, which could make our job more difficult in Iraq.

BLITZER: These MPs, these military police who are now no longer at the Abu Ghraib Prison, several of them are saying themselves or through their attorneys they were told to do this, to soften up, if you will, these Iraqi prisoners for more formal interrogation. They just didn't do this on their own. Do you buy that?

SESSIONS: I've heard some of those comments and I think we need to get to the bottom of that absolutely. It's not acceptable if they were and even if they were they should not do this.

Basic Geneva Conventions, the basic training they get as MPs shows that this is never acceptable behavior, so we need to find out if anyone else have been involved and what the policies were and it's certainly unacceptable the way it was handled.

BLITZER: What do you know, if anything, Senator Sessions about the role of civilian contractors in this scandal?

SESSIONS: I don't know a lot about it. Apparently at least two members have been implicated. I think contractors can be helpful but it's clear they need to be supervised also. Just to turn them loose is not a wise thing and we need to make sure that in the future that if contractors (AUDIO GAP) and supervised.

BLITZER: You're a former United States attorney, a federal prosecutor. Can they be held legally accountable for what they may have done in Iraq?

SESSIONS: I believe they can. In 2000, I offered and we passed legislation that became law that says an employee of the Department of Defense in a foreign country who commits a crime can be brought back to the United States and tried.

Until that point, I'm not sure they would be subject to criminal charges but I believe this law will cover it, so I'm pleased that that law -- I hate to have this circumstance but I'm glad we have it now in place.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, one final question. Was the Pentagon right in asking Dan Rather not to broadcast, not to air those pictures last week?

SESSIONS: Well, I just don't know. I think General Myers obviously was concerned about his soldiers. I don't think there's any doubt that there has been an increased risk to our personnel and our job will be somewhat more difficult, though maybe not as bad as some people are suggesting now. But I think it does increase the risk for them and I'm sure that's why the general was hoping that he could avoid that happening. I don't fault him for trying and it's up to the media to wrestle with their conscience to decide how they should handle the matter like that.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.

SESSIONS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Time now to get a quick check of the latest headlines.

President Bush spent the day campaigning in Ohio wrapping up a two-day swing that included another battleground state, Michigan. In both states he emphasized he takes nothing for granted in the upcoming election and he tells supporters he cannot win without all of their help.

Meanwhile, his Democratic rival campaigned in Minnesota and New Mexico. Senator Kerry was emphasizing education promoting plans to get one million more students a year to graduate from high school.

A temporary Iraqi military force is setting up shop in Fallujah. It will take over patrols in the hotspot city for U.S. marines following their week's long standoff with insurgents. American military officials say they are pleased with the Iraqi operation at least so far.

A controversial comment by an American ally. What a Saudi prince said that is drawing so much attention.

And a new push to find peace in the Middle East. Details of the latest efforts by the so-called quartet.

And the silent killer, surprising new information on a hidden and possibly deadly danger affecting overweight children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A former CIA operative talks about the agency's role in interrogating Iraqi prisoners and a Saudi prince makes an accusation that can only inflame Middle East tensions. Stay here. We'll have details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from New York. An American contractor who was held hostage in Iraq talked publicly for the first time today in Landstuhl, Germany. That's where Thomas Hamill is getting medical treatment and where he's about to be reunited with his wife. CNN's Chris Burns is there with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thomas Hamill getting antibiotics and some testing here. He's going to get some surgery when he goes back to the States in the coming days. He's waiting for his wife to arrive tomorrow. At this U.S. military hospital, Iraq is a world away for Thomas Hamill but the wounded former hostage thinks about those he left behind.

THOMAS HAMILL, FMR. HOSTAGE: First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East, please keep your thoughts and prayers with those who are still there.

BURNS: Appearing before cameras here for the first time, the Mississippi dairy farmer turned truck driver didn't take questions. But a doctor treating him for his bullet wound says the April 9 ambush of his fuel convoy, the beginning of his captivity remains vivid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He recalls a pop. Blast and a motion and sound from his door. And burning in his forearm. So that was how he was injured. He treated the injury by controlling the bleeding with a pair of socks he had on the dashboard.

BURNS: Jefson (ph) says Hamill wasn't abused as a hostage. In fact he was operated on in captivity. Though one of the attackers struck him in the head with a rifle butt during the ambush. Hamill told doctors his captors kept him in one place no more than four days at a time. He slept on dirt floors, on Sunday, the sound that woke Hamill up was music to his ears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Woke sometime in the morning to the sound of these diesel engines that he recognized as U.S. vehicles. As opposed to the Iraqi vehicles he was used to hearing.

BURNS: That, Jefson (ph) says is when Hamill pried the door open and ran to freedom. Doctors say that once he is back in the States Hamill will need more than one operation to repair his arm. And he's undergoing counseling to repair that invisible injury, the trauma from a deadly ordeal. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Chris Burns at Landstuhl, thanks very much.

The Bush administration is stepping up to deal with the issue of criticism. Namely involving the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, also dealing with damage control. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice gave interviews to three Arab television networks today seeking to defuse outrage in the Middle East. Meanwhile two Senate committees plan to hold hearings on the incident.

The prisoner abuse scandal has focused new attention on interrogation techniques and on the CIA's role in Iraq. Joining us now is a former CIA field officer and author, Robert Baer. Bob, thanks very much for joining us. Interrogation of prisoners during wartime. Should we be shocked by what we're seeing?

ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA FIELD OFFICER: Yes, we should be, because in the past, it's worked very well. We have not tortured prisoners, not abused them in any way. Torture is found to be ineffective. People will say anything you want them to tell you when they are under stress. It often sends you down the wrong path. You pull in more people. At the end of the day you end up just alienating the local population. I think it's a mistake and we don't need to do it.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting that U.S. interrogators, whether civilian or military don't use sleep deprivation, food deprivation, disorientation, hooding of prisoners, in order to try to soften up for formal interrogation?

BAER: There's mild psychological pressure put on people but certainly not physical pressure, which we have seen at Abu Ghraib. When I was in the CIA that was strictly forbidden, illegal and anybody caught participating in or ordering it was fired.

BLITZER: Because as you well know there are numerous accounts in Iraq of Iraqi prisoners, former Iraqi prisoners saying they were abused along these lines.

BAER: It is. I think it is much more widespread than we are seeing in Abu Ghraib. Also Abu Ghraib had other wings of the prison we don't know about. There's more scandals are going to come out. I think we are going to find that this is systematic. It's not just those six MPs that have been indicted or charged in this case. It's people were coming in and telling them to soften up the prisoners, using physical coercion. In one case, Chip Frederick has an e-mail saying that he refers to other government agencies which is the CIA. Now, whether it was contractors or CIA officers, I don't know. But we will find out.

BLITZER: Let me read to you what he says, according to his wife. We're talking about Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick. He says -- he's one of the soldiers who was there. Martha Frederick defended her husband in today's "Washington Post." She quoted him as saying this. "He was told to do these things and when he did them he thought he was doing them in the sense of national security."

That's what he told his wife Martha. Do you believe him?

BAER: I do believe him because those e-mails that he sent back to his family referring to this torture was contemporaneous with the events before the investigation started. I don't think the e-mails are fake.

BLITZER: So what kind of techniques, interrogation techniques, should U.S. interrogators use?

BAER: Dependence upon the interrogator. Psychological dependence. To be treated well, to see a way out, if they cooperate. And it takes a lot more time to do it this way but at the end it's more effective. We watched these interrogation techniques in the Middle East. For instance, the Egyptians regularly use torture but the Jordanians don't and the Jordanians are much more effective.

BLITZER: Bottom line. Is this going to go away soon or is this going to be a nightmare for U.S. policy in the region for a while to come?

BAER: This is a nightmare. It could leave for an early departure from Iraq. This has been -- complete outrage across the Middle East. It's looked at as a simple act of humiliation and colonialism. While we look at it as a few people or a mistake in policy they are looking at it as a general U.S. policy which is very unfortunate for the future of the Middle East.

BLITZER: Bob Baer, thanks for joining us.

A speech by Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah is raising eyebrows. We'll tell you who he blames for a weekend attack on an oil refinery.

Also ahead, disturbing new findings about what overweight children may face when they grow up.

And it's a high-profile story, literally. We'll tell you why this man is a record holder. We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

In Israel, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is working on a new plan to pull out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank.

His original plan called for evacuation of all Jewish settlements in Gaza and four of 120 in the West Bank. Mr. Sharon's Likud party soundly rejected the plan in a nonbinding referendum and violence continued today with two Palestinians and at least 25 others wounded after an Israeli helicopter attack on a refugee camp in Gaza.

In China, the health ministry upgrades three suspected cases of SARS to confirmed cases. All three are connected to a confirmed case in Beijing. There are now nine known cases of the often deadly respiratory illness in China.

Summer driving and the problems in Iraq have been two reasons given for surging gas prices. Analysts say there's another reason, rapid growth in China.

They are saying that growth is fueling a huge thirst for oil and that's driving up prices for everyone else.

Another road story, 100 years ago today Mr. Rolls met Mr. Royce in Manchester, England. That partnership led to the Rolls-Royce luxury cars known around the world. German car maker BMW now owns Rolls-Royce. That's our look around the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Federal aviation officials are stepping up preflight security measures on some domestic U.S. flights. The Undersecretary of Homeland Security Asa Hutchinson tells CNN the move is not based on any new intelligence but a senior law enforcement official says in one case a United Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Dulles specifically flight 200, there are specific details. CNN has obtained a memo from a United pilot detailing extraordinary security measures including having pilots shadowed. The pilot says and I'm quoting now, "I have never been screened this thoroughly in my flying career."

A member of a Saudi opposition group is accused of being the mastermind of an attack that killed five international oil workers in Saudi Arabia last weekend. Two Americans died in the attack. One very powerful Saudi thinks the blame extends past the opposition group. CNN's Brian Todd explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In northern Saudi Arabia, the aftermath of an attack Saturday on an oil refinery. Militants had opened fire killing five expat employees of a Swiss engineering company, a Saudi policeman and all four militants were also killed in the exchange. That evening at a gathering of Saudi officials and others, the effective leader of Saudi Arabia Crown Prince Abdullah made startling remarks.

CROWN PRINCE ABDULLAH (through translator): You all know who is behind it, Zionism is behind it.

TODD: This tape obtained by CNN from a Middle East media research institute, a U.S.-based group which monitors Arabic and Persian language media in the region, translating and publicizing many anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic items. The group says this meeting was televised on Saudi state-run television. CNN independently verified the translation of the crowns prince's comments.

ABDULLAH (through translator): I don't say, I mean, it's not 100 percent but 95 percent that the Zionist hands are behind what happened.

TODD: Saudi officials say those who carried out Saturday's attacks are on a list of wanted militants, many linked to al Qaeda, all from Arab nations. On this tape the crown prince does not mention Saturday's attack by name. And he does not suggest that Israelis specifically or supporters of Israel plotted or carried out any of the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia. But he hints Saudi natives involved in terrorism are influenced by outsiders.

ABDULLAH (through translator): Unfortunately they have seduced some of our sons. What can we possibly do? They are our sons. They have been seduced and they fell for it.

TODD: We contacted representatives of the Saudi government for clarification. They said no one in the government would comment further on the Zionist characterization. And referred us to an earlier statement in which the crown prince vowed to go after terrorists and their sympathizers. We read the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. direct quotes from the translation.

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: The constant denial and blame of others by doing this, they are guilty not only of incitement and anti-Semitism and fueling an atmosphere of hatred, they are also protecting the real terrorists of the radical Islam. TODD: We also spoke to the leader of the Anti-Defamation League who suggests President Bush call his family's old friend to protest. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And we have this just in to CNN. The direct response from a key member of the U.S. Congress to Crown Prince Abdullah's remarks. Congressman Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the House international relations committee issued a statement calling Abdullah's remarks an outrage and blatant hypocrisy. Lantos is calling on the crown prince to retract his statements and to apologize.

Today at the United Nations here in New York, the so-called quartet renewed its efforts to find some sort of harmony in the Middle East peace process. Senior officials from the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations called for a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza just two days ago, Israel's Likud party voted against the proposal from the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to pull out of Gaza but quartet members call the plan, and I'm quoting now, "a rare moment of opportunity."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think we have to look at now is how to move forward. That's what the quartet was focused on today, how to take advantage of this new opportunity of the evacuation of settlements as opposed to just relying on the statements of the past but something that can actually occur. The evacuation of settlements and how we can get the Palestinians ready to take advantage of this opportunity and to get back into the road map, get back on the path to peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Prime Minister Sharon has proposed evacuating all 21 settlements in Gaza and four settlements on the West Bank.

What our children do now can affect their health ten or 20 years down the road. That's why a new report should sound alarm bells in millions of American households right now. The news you need right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: High blood pressure, heart disease and kidney disease and stroke, for that matter, generally aren't the sort of illnesses you associate with children. But for overweight kids there's new evidence of a direct link between extra pounds now and life threatening disease later. CNN medical correspondent Christy Feig reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTY FEIG, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: When Yun Lee (ph) came to America from Korea at age nine he wasn't overweight, but becoming a typical American teenager added about 30 pounds too many.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ate a lot of fast food or pizza or a lot of cheese, a lot of cokes. I guess that became the source of the obesity.

FEIG: Now at 19, he's battling high blood pressure, a hidden danger researchers found in their study of overweight kids reported in the "Journal of the American Medical Association."

DR. PAUL MUNTNER, TULANE UNIVERSITY: We divided up our sample into ages 8 through 12 and 13 through 17, and we saw remarkably consistent results from blood pressure increased among children of all ages.

FEIG: In children, even a blood pressure increase of just a few points is significant. Because each one point increase in childhood raises the risk of high blood pressure as an adult by ten percent.

MUNTNER: If you have high blood pressure in a childhood, there is a much higher likelihood that you will sustain it into adulthood and if you do then you are into the group of people who are at risk for having kidney disease or stroke, heart disease.

FEIG: High blood pressure is called the silent killer because it doesn't often have many symptoms. The doctor say this should be a red flag to get kids moving more and eating less. Christy Feig, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We have a tall tale, that's coming up straight ahead. Just exactly how tall? Our picture of the day will give you the answer.

The results of our web question of the day, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: He's believed to be the world's tallest man. He's also our picture of the day. Ukrainian Leonid Stadnyk measures in at 8'4" tall. That's a full seven inches taller than the current world record holder in Tunisia. Stadnick wears a size 25 shoe and not surprisingly, he says he has a very hard time finding footwear in his size.

Take a look at our web question of the day. The results, remember, look at this. Not scientific. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 4, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now extended stay, the Pentagon brass says a beefed up U.S. military force will be needed through next year in Iraq.
And stunning remarks by Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince on recent terror attacks, he's blaming Zionists. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Revulsion as more allegations emerge about the abuse of prisoners in Iraq lawmakers are furious.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I'm truly outraged and repulsed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is as serious a problem of breakdown in discipline as I've ever observed.

BLITZER: The Pentagon is put on the spot.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un-American.

BLITZER: Can America undo the damage? I'll ask Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Jeff Sessions, both of the Armed Services Committee.

THOMAS HAMILL: Thank you all very much and God bless.

BLITZER: Headed home, new details about the escape of an American prisoner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was able to push the door open to get a look outside of the building and saw the U.S. vehicles.

BLITZER: And a warning to parents why your overweight kids may face serious health risks in years to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, May 4, 2004.

BLITZER: Hello from New York City. Sickening, outrageous, despicable just some of the words being used by the Bush administration to describe those shocking images of abuse at an American-run prison in Iraq.

As the United States launches an all-out effort at damage control, we'll go live to our National Security Correspondent David Ensor.

And to CNN's Ben Wedeman, he's in Baghdad where a new prison commander says changes are being made right now.

But we begin with our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, today those pictures put Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in the uncomfortable position of having to distinguish the actions of U.S. soldiers from the regime of Saddam Hussein who he said was guilty of murder and torture.

Rumsfeld said that what happened at this prison was an exception and then he said the pattern and practice of Saddam Hussein was to do exactly that. He said equating the two is a fundamental misunderstanding of what took place but, again, he denounced the actions of those soldiers in the strongest terms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: Let there be no doubt that this matter will be pursued properly under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The actions of the soldiers in those photographs are totally unacceptable and un- American. Any who engaged in such action let down their comrades who serve honorably each day and they let down their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Now, members of Congress are irate that they're just now being provided with this Army report already seen by CNN and other news organizations that details "egregious acts" and "numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses."

That's the language from General Antonio Taguba, who also detailed some of the examples of things that had happened, "pouring cold water on naked detainees," he wrote, "sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light or a broomstick, male military police guard having sex with a female detainee." Those and other allegations in that report just now being provided to Congress.

The Pentagon today also acknowledged that while they insist this is not a widespread problem there are 35 investigations into abuse of prisoners in Afghanistan or Iraq.

They say that 25 of those involve the deaths of detainees and, of those, 12 are said to be natural causes but there are two cases in which Americans were charged with homicide -- Wolf. BLITZER: Jamie, amid all of this prisoner abuse scandal there's word now of troop levels in Iraq this year and beyond. What's the latest on that front?

MCINTYRE: Well, General Abizaid, the U.S. Central Commander, had said that if the situation didn't get better in Iraq, he was going to want to maintain the 135,000 troops there at that level for some time and today the Pentagon said yes.

They've gotten that request from General Abizaid and they're now alerting troops to be going in the summer so that they can maintain the level about 20,000 more than the U.S. had planned for at this time.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, Jamie thanks very much.

The Bush administration clearly concerned that the prisoner abuse scandal is hurting America's image in the Arab world and, in fact, beyond. Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor is standing by with that part of the story -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they are indeed concerned, that is putting it mildly and they are seeking to address their response to the region, trying to show openness and more than a little humility.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): On Al-Jazeera television and other Arabic language networks, Bush administration officials fanned out to limit the damage from the global backlash against the U.S. for the humiliating photos of Iraqi prisoners.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: We have a democratic system for holding people...

ENSOR: People will see, said Condoleezza Rice that we are determined to get to the bottom of what happened. At the Pentagon briefing, Secretary Rumsfeld appeared aware his remarks were broadcasting live well beyond U.S. borders.

RUMSFELD: The United States of America is a wonderful country and the overwhelming majority of the people.

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: While we deplore this and while we are all stunned and shocked that our young people could do this, let's not forget what most of our young people are doing in service to the nation and in service to the Iraqi people.

ENSOR: But officials concede that the TV interviews are only damage control and the damage will be great.

REP. JANE HARMAN (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: A picture is worth 1,000 words and this -- these pictures, these horrible, despicable pictures have undone thousands of acts of kindness and courage in Iraq by American soldiers and civilians. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: And the photos come on top of Fallujah and Najaf and Sharon's Gaza plans endorsement by President Bush. Administration officials concede America's reputation in the Mid East region is at a low point.

In Iraq, they say, U.S. assistance will soon be creating 20,000 reconstruction jobs and Iraqis will soon be running their country again. The hope is the image of this country in that region will start to get better -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David, what are your sources at the CIA saying about the CIA's role in these prison interrogations?

ENSOR: They're saying that the CIA had nothing to do at all and wasn't even aware of the interrogations that you see in those photographs. There were, however, some other prisoners who were interrogated during that time frame by CIA officers and there is, in fact, a couple of other investigations by the CIA Inspector General into allegations of abuses but there's no clear abuses uncovered and made public thus far -- Wolf.

BLITZER: David Ensor in Washington thanks, David, very much.

The new U.S. military commander of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison says he's put a stop to what he calls aberrant practices.

Let's go to CNN's Ben Wedeman in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Behind the walls of this prison, the U.S. military says it's cleaning house following mounting international condemnation of American treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

According to a recent internal Army report, Abu Ghraib is overcrowded and inadequately staffed with poorly trained personnel. Sixty percent of the inmates represent no threat to society and many of them are being held indefinitely due to bad record keeping.

Investigators are looking into whether the abuse represents a systemic or widespread problem. Assigned with fixing all this is Major General Jeffrey Miller, formerly in charge of the Guantanamo Detention Center, a facility that itself has been widely criticized by human rights groups.

Tuesday Miller announced that the use of hooding, sleep deprivation and forcing inmates to stay in uncomfortable positions for long periods of time has been discontinued, that the prison population will be reduced from its current 3,800 to somewhere between 1,500 and 2,000, and that the chain of command at the prison will be streamlined to integrate detention and interrogation.

(END VIDEOTAPE) WEDEMAN: But, Wolf, none of these actions were enough because we've seen this evening that the Iraqi Governing Council's Minister for Human Rights has resigned in protest over this abuse scandal.

BLITZER: Ben, I assume the Iraqi news media, print as well as television, radio that this is the dominant story but, correct me if I'm wrong, is it?

WEDEMAN: Well, actually it's not and we saw that even though these pictures initially came out at the end of last week they only gradually showed up in the Iraqi media. I was speaking with Iraqi editors some of them saying that these pictures are simply too offensive for Iraqi sensibilities.

But I think they've seen that as this story has snowballed overseas they're more and more interested and we're seeing now increasing interest among Iraqis. They're talking about it and we're expecting, in fact, a very large demonstration outside Abu Ghraib Prison tomorrow.

BLITZER: Ben Wedeman in Baghdad for us. We'll be covering that demonstration tomorrow. Thanks very much, Ben, for that.

With powerful Senators now calling for hearings on the abuse of some Iraqi prisoners, we'll talk with members of the committee that would hold those hearings, including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. That's coming up next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), ARMED SERVICES CMTE.: Leadership has to be responsible and held accountable and that is not just in the prison in Baghdad. That goes all the way up the chain of command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also ahead...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAMILL: Glad to be back to an American installation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Former hostage Thomas Hamill makes his first public statement since escaping his Iraqi captors. His story is coming up.

And, a Saudi Prince says he knows who's behind recent terror attacks in his kingdom. He says it's not necessarily al Qaeda but Zionists. You'll hear his accusation. That's coming up as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Why is Congress so upset over the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal? We'll speak with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton about the bipartisan call for hearings when we continue in 90 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: There are so many allegations whirling around this situation that we must have a public hearing with the secretary of defense testifying in order to clear up all of these allegations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: There is clearly outrage in the U.S. Congress over the images of abuse in Iraq and some U.S. lawmakers are upset with what they say is the slow response by both the Pentagon and the Bush administration.

Just a short while ago, I spoke with Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of the Armed Services Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Clinton thanks very much for joining us. I know you're a member of the Armed Services Committee. How surprised were you and your colleagues by word of this prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq?

CLINTON: We were shocked, Wolf. There had been no notice to anyone on the committee, no briefing, not even an inkling and we've had a number of meetings with Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Wolfowitz, other civilian leaders from the Pentagon, as well as military.

And not a person gave us any indication that there was this ongoing problem that there had been a study commissioned and that the study had been completed and that the Pentagon knew the results of the study until the article by Seymour Hirsch was published.

BLITZER: Is it your opinion that people at the highest levels of the Pentagon, the U.S. military knew about this or they were kept in the dark themselves?

CLINTON: Well, that's one of the questions we have to answer. That's why we are demanding public hearings with Secretary Rumsfeld as soon as possible. Unfortunately, the information forthcoming so far has been totally insufficient. They have had a lot of contradictory answers to questions.

There's the story of General Myers calling CBS and talking to Dan Rather and asking that they not go forward with their own report about prison abuse. There's other indications that some people knew, other people didn't. Some people had vague ideas. They hadn't seen the report.

It doesn't matter. I mean the bottom line is that leadership has to be responsible and held accountable and that is not just in the prison in Baghdad. That goes all the way up the chain of command. BLITZER: You met with top officials from the Pentagon, from the U.S. Army, earlier today, the Senate Armed Services Committee. Did they give you some good explanation of what happened?

CLINTON: Well, of course, that was a closed door hearing, so I'm not at liberty to talk about it, which is why we must have a public hearing as soon as possible and a number of my colleagues left that hearing and demanded that we move forward, that Secretary Rumsfeld appear in public and certainly Chairman Warner and Ranking Member Levin had made it very clear that they intend to hold that hearing as soon as possible.

BLITZER: Are you getting any sense that steps are being taken now in Iraq at prisons, in Afghanistan, at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba to try to do something about this situation?

CLINTON: Well, we've been given assurances that steps are being taken but, again, we need the facts. We need to know the results of the investigation. And, you know Wolf, this is not only a horrible series of events and terrible dereliction of duty and responsibility among some of our military but it also puts all of our soldiers and Marines at risk.

This is not just about doing the right thing on behalf of Iraqi prisoners and righting the wrongs that have been inflicted on them and sending a very clear message to the Iraqi people and to the world that this is an aberration, that this is not the way the United States military is expected to behave and certainly it was a small minority.

But this raises very difficult questions about the future safety of our own soldiers and Marines and it also calls into even higher relief the ongoing concerns many of us have about these private contractors. We can't even get a straight story as to who was in charge.

Were they civilians within the military? Were they civilians outside the military? Was it the military chain of command? This illustrates that there are many, many unanswered questions about the use of private contractors and the apparently confusing and unclear chain of command at work but my...

BLITZER: Let me press you on one point. How specifically does it endanger U.S. military personnel?

CLINTON: Well, from my perspective any time you have a public display like we've now seen not just on our own television stations, such as yours, but literally around the world that undermines the ability of all of our troops to do the job that they are intending to do.

And, you know, I want to make it absolutely clear that we will get to the bottom of this. We will conduct a thorough, public investigation. All people who are in any way responsible will be held accountable and that the vast majority of our young men and women who are serving, whether it's active duty, Guard, or Reserve, are living up to the expectations that we all have for them. So, I don't want their reputation or their safety undermined by those who might be inflamed who previously weren't because of this incident to join the insurgency, to perhaps take out, you know, personal revenge against any individual American, military or civilian. This is criminal conduct. This is absolutely unacceptable and we will get to the bottom of it.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton, but as you know in wartime, there are proven, there are used methods of interrogation including hooding, putting hoods over the heads of prisoners, prisoner sleep deprivation, food deprivation, humiliation. These have been used for as long as prisoners in wars have been interrogated. Should the U.S. rethink those methods?

CLINTON: Well, first of all, Wolf, there is the Geneva Convention about the treatment of prisoners of war and there is protocol that certainly members of the Intelligence Committee and others have been briefed on as to what is expected with respect to interrogations carried out in the name of the United States.

I don't care whether it's military or civilian. Anyone acting on behalf of our government is supposed to abide by certain rules and regulations. Clearly, there are interrogation methods that are deemed appropriate but what we have seen on our television screens in no way can be considered appropriate or necessary or frankly even effective.

So, I think that there are rules that every soldier is supposed to be briefed on. Obviously, those who are in some role of responsibility with respect to interrogation are expected to know even more about what the lines are and where they can and cannot cross. What we've seen in the last several days and what's been reported in the press is absolutely unacceptable as interrogation techniques in time of war.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton thanks very much for joining us.

CLINTON: Thank you very much, Wolf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should the U.S. Congress hold hearings on the alleged abuse by the U.S. military at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq?" You can vote right now. Go to cnn.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

While you're there though, I'd love to hear directly from you. Send me your comments anytime. I'll try to read some of them on the air each day at the end of this program. That's also where you can read my daily online column, cnn.com/wolf.

Up next we'll speak live with a Republican Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama. He'll join us with his take on the prisoner abuse scandal and what Congress' role should be.

Also, you may not believe who a Saudi prince is blaming for the terror attacks in his country.

And news for your health, important news, a new study out today sounding alarm bells for the nation's children about a problem that could cause serious health issues a few years down the road. You need to know this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

We just heard from Democratic Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and, while the outrage over the abuse in Iraq cuts across party lines, let's get the view of a key Republican member of the Senate Armed Services Committee as well.

Joining us now live from Capitol Hill, Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions, Senator thanks very much for joining us. You were at that briefing earlier today behind closed doors. What's your bottom line assessment of what's going on?

SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, we've got a real problem. It's a clear problem of public relations, particularly for the people of Iraq and it's a clear violation of the standards we expect of our military.

I have to say the military moved promptly. A single soldier complained and a general was put on the case to investigate it immediately and he produced this report.

Unfortunately, no one seemed to have figured out how to release it and how to bring forward the bad news that was going to have to be brought forward and, as a results, it's been worse I think than otherwise would have been the case.

BLITZER: When you say the military acted promptly, that report by that major general was completed in February, I believe Senator Sessions. What has been done since February to get to the bottom of this?

SESSIONS: Well, a soldier complained January 13 and I think several days later a general was put in charge of this. I think after that report was completed there has been confusion about what to do about it. Of course, six soldiers have been charged already and the matter continues to be investigated but they did fail, I think, in figuring how to go from there and what to do.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, they didn't even brief your committee, according to several members including the chairman and the ranking member. Senator Clinton just said it. They didn't brief your committee about this at least until now.

SESSIONS: You're absolutely correct and I think they were confused about this and did not handle it as they should have and it's cause for much more concern from that point of view than otherwise would have been the case. I'm just saying the military position is this is not acceptable behavior. They went after a senior officer for firing a gun to scare someone and even had people complain at him for that.

They are not standing by and allowing this to occur but they have failed, I think, to handle it in a way that would have caused the Iraqi people to be more understanding, which could make our job more difficult in Iraq.

BLITZER: These MPs, these military police who are now no longer at the Abu Ghraib Prison, several of them are saying themselves or through their attorneys they were told to do this, to soften up, if you will, these Iraqi prisoners for more formal interrogation. They just didn't do this on their own. Do you buy that?

SESSIONS: I've heard some of those comments and I think we need to get to the bottom of that absolutely. It's not acceptable if they were and even if they were they should not do this.

Basic Geneva Conventions, the basic training they get as MPs shows that this is never acceptable behavior, so we need to find out if anyone else have been involved and what the policies were and it's certainly unacceptable the way it was handled.

BLITZER: What do you know, if anything, Senator Sessions about the role of civilian contractors in this scandal?

SESSIONS: I don't know a lot about it. Apparently at least two members have been implicated. I think contractors can be helpful but it's clear they need to be supervised also. Just to turn them loose is not a wise thing and we need to make sure that in the future that if contractors (AUDIO GAP) and supervised.

BLITZER: You're a former United States attorney, a federal prosecutor. Can they be held legally accountable for what they may have done in Iraq?

SESSIONS: I believe they can. In 2000, I offered and we passed legislation that became law that says an employee of the Department of Defense in a foreign country who commits a crime can be brought back to the United States and tried.

Until that point, I'm not sure they would be subject to criminal charges but I believe this law will cover it, so I'm pleased that that law -- I hate to have this circumstance but I'm glad we have it now in place.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, one final question. Was the Pentagon right in asking Dan Rather not to broadcast, not to air those pictures last week?

SESSIONS: Well, I just don't know. I think General Myers obviously was concerned about his soldiers. I don't think there's any doubt that there has been an increased risk to our personnel and our job will be somewhat more difficult, though maybe not as bad as some people are suggesting now. But I think it does increase the risk for them and I'm sure that's why the general was hoping that he could avoid that happening. I don't fault him for trying and it's up to the media to wrestle with their conscience to decide how they should handle the matter like that.

BLITZER: Senator Sessions, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.

SESSIONS: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Time now to get a quick check of the latest headlines.

President Bush spent the day campaigning in Ohio wrapping up a two-day swing that included another battleground state, Michigan. In both states he emphasized he takes nothing for granted in the upcoming election and he tells supporters he cannot win without all of their help.

Meanwhile, his Democratic rival campaigned in Minnesota and New Mexico. Senator Kerry was emphasizing education promoting plans to get one million more students a year to graduate from high school.

A temporary Iraqi military force is setting up shop in Fallujah. It will take over patrols in the hotspot city for U.S. marines following their week's long standoff with insurgents. American military officials say they are pleased with the Iraqi operation at least so far.

A controversial comment by an American ally. What a Saudi prince said that is drawing so much attention.

And a new push to find peace in the Middle East. Details of the latest efforts by the so-called quartet.

And the silent killer, surprising new information on a hidden and possibly deadly danger affecting overweight children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: A former CIA operative talks about the agency's role in interrogating Iraqi prisoners and a Saudi prince makes an accusation that can only inflame Middle East tensions. Stay here. We'll have details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from New York. An American contractor who was held hostage in Iraq talked publicly for the first time today in Landstuhl, Germany. That's where Thomas Hamill is getting medical treatment and where he's about to be reunited with his wife. CNN's Chris Burns is there with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thomas Hamill getting antibiotics and some testing here. He's going to get some surgery when he goes back to the States in the coming days. He's waiting for his wife to arrive tomorrow. At this U.S. military hospital, Iraq is a world away for Thomas Hamill but the wounded former hostage thinks about those he left behind.

THOMAS HAMILL, FMR. HOSTAGE: First and foremost, I would like to thank the American public for their support of all deployed in the Middle East, please keep your thoughts and prayers with those who are still there.

BURNS: Appearing before cameras here for the first time, the Mississippi dairy farmer turned truck driver didn't take questions. But a doctor treating him for his bullet wound says the April 9 ambush of his fuel convoy, the beginning of his captivity remains vivid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He recalls a pop. Blast and a motion and sound from his door. And burning in his forearm. So that was how he was injured. He treated the injury by controlling the bleeding with a pair of socks he had on the dashboard.

BURNS: Jefson (ph) says Hamill wasn't abused as a hostage. In fact he was operated on in captivity. Though one of the attackers struck him in the head with a rifle butt during the ambush. Hamill told doctors his captors kept him in one place no more than four days at a time. He slept on dirt floors, on Sunday, the sound that woke Hamill up was music to his ears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Woke sometime in the morning to the sound of these diesel engines that he recognized as U.S. vehicles. As opposed to the Iraqi vehicles he was used to hearing.

BURNS: That, Jefson (ph) says is when Hamill pried the door open and ran to freedom. Doctors say that once he is back in the States Hamill will need more than one operation to repair his arm. And he's undergoing counseling to repair that invisible injury, the trauma from a deadly ordeal. Back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Chris Burns at Landstuhl, thanks very much.

The Bush administration is stepping up to deal with the issue of criticism. Namely involving the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, also dealing with damage control. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice gave interviews to three Arab television networks today seeking to defuse outrage in the Middle East. Meanwhile two Senate committees plan to hold hearings on the incident.

The prisoner abuse scandal has focused new attention on interrogation techniques and on the CIA's role in Iraq. Joining us now is a former CIA field officer and author, Robert Baer. Bob, thanks very much for joining us. Interrogation of prisoners during wartime. Should we be shocked by what we're seeing?

ROBERT BAER, FORMER CIA FIELD OFFICER: Yes, we should be, because in the past, it's worked very well. We have not tortured prisoners, not abused them in any way. Torture is found to be ineffective. People will say anything you want them to tell you when they are under stress. It often sends you down the wrong path. You pull in more people. At the end of the day you end up just alienating the local population. I think it's a mistake and we don't need to do it.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting that U.S. interrogators, whether civilian or military don't use sleep deprivation, food deprivation, disorientation, hooding of prisoners, in order to try to soften up for formal interrogation?

BAER: There's mild psychological pressure put on people but certainly not physical pressure, which we have seen at Abu Ghraib. When I was in the CIA that was strictly forbidden, illegal and anybody caught participating in or ordering it was fired.

BLITZER: Because as you well know there are numerous accounts in Iraq of Iraqi prisoners, former Iraqi prisoners saying they were abused along these lines.

BAER: It is. I think it is much more widespread than we are seeing in Abu Ghraib. Also Abu Ghraib had other wings of the prison we don't know about. There's more scandals are going to come out. I think we are going to find that this is systematic. It's not just those six MPs that have been indicted or charged in this case. It's people were coming in and telling them to soften up the prisoners, using physical coercion. In one case, Chip Frederick has an e-mail saying that he refers to other government agencies which is the CIA. Now, whether it was contractors or CIA officers, I don't know. But we will find out.

BLITZER: Let me read to you what he says, according to his wife. We're talking about Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick. He says -- he's one of the soldiers who was there. Martha Frederick defended her husband in today's "Washington Post." She quoted him as saying this. "He was told to do these things and when he did them he thought he was doing them in the sense of national security."

That's what he told his wife Martha. Do you believe him?

BAER: I do believe him because those e-mails that he sent back to his family referring to this torture was contemporaneous with the events before the investigation started. I don't think the e-mails are fake.

BLITZER: So what kind of techniques, interrogation techniques, should U.S. interrogators use?

BAER: Dependence upon the interrogator. Psychological dependence. To be treated well, to see a way out, if they cooperate. And it takes a lot more time to do it this way but at the end it's more effective. We watched these interrogation techniques in the Middle East. For instance, the Egyptians regularly use torture but the Jordanians don't and the Jordanians are much more effective.

BLITZER: Bottom line. Is this going to go away soon or is this going to be a nightmare for U.S. policy in the region for a while to come?

BAER: This is a nightmare. It could leave for an early departure from Iraq. This has been -- complete outrage across the Middle East. It's looked at as a simple act of humiliation and colonialism. While we look at it as a few people or a mistake in policy they are looking at it as a general U.S. policy which is very unfortunate for the future of the Middle East.

BLITZER: Bob Baer, thanks for joining us.

A speech by Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah is raising eyebrows. We'll tell you who he blames for a weekend attack on an oil refinery.

Also ahead, disturbing new findings about what overweight children may face when they grow up.

And it's a high-profile story, literally. We'll tell you why this man is a record holder. We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

In Israel, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is working on a new plan to pull out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank.

His original plan called for evacuation of all Jewish settlements in Gaza and four of 120 in the West Bank. Mr. Sharon's Likud party soundly rejected the plan in a nonbinding referendum and violence continued today with two Palestinians and at least 25 others wounded after an Israeli helicopter attack on a refugee camp in Gaza.

In China, the health ministry upgrades three suspected cases of SARS to confirmed cases. All three are connected to a confirmed case in Beijing. There are now nine known cases of the often deadly respiratory illness in China.

Summer driving and the problems in Iraq have been two reasons given for surging gas prices. Analysts say there's another reason, rapid growth in China.

They are saying that growth is fueling a huge thirst for oil and that's driving up prices for everyone else.

Another road story, 100 years ago today Mr. Rolls met Mr. Royce in Manchester, England. That partnership led to the Rolls-Royce luxury cars known around the world. German car maker BMW now owns Rolls-Royce. That's our look around the world.

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BLITZER: Federal aviation officials are stepping up preflight security measures on some domestic U.S. flights. The Undersecretary of Homeland Security Asa Hutchinson tells CNN the move is not based on any new intelligence but a senior law enforcement official says in one case a United Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Dulles specifically flight 200, there are specific details. CNN has obtained a memo from a United pilot detailing extraordinary security measures including having pilots shadowed. The pilot says and I'm quoting now, "I have never been screened this thoroughly in my flying career."

A member of a Saudi opposition group is accused of being the mastermind of an attack that killed five international oil workers in Saudi Arabia last weekend. Two Americans died in the attack. One very powerful Saudi thinks the blame extends past the opposition group. CNN's Brian Todd explains.

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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In northern Saudi Arabia, the aftermath of an attack Saturday on an oil refinery. Militants had opened fire killing five expat employees of a Swiss engineering company, a Saudi policeman and all four militants were also killed in the exchange. That evening at a gathering of Saudi officials and others, the effective leader of Saudi Arabia Crown Prince Abdullah made startling remarks.

CROWN PRINCE ABDULLAH (through translator): You all know who is behind it, Zionism is behind it.

TODD: This tape obtained by CNN from a Middle East media research institute, a U.S.-based group which monitors Arabic and Persian language media in the region, translating and publicizing many anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic items. The group says this meeting was televised on Saudi state-run television. CNN independently verified the translation of the crowns prince's comments.

ABDULLAH (through translator): I don't say, I mean, it's not 100 percent but 95 percent that the Zionist hands are behind what happened.

TODD: Saudi officials say those who carried out Saturday's attacks are on a list of wanted militants, many linked to al Qaeda, all from Arab nations. On this tape the crown prince does not mention Saturday's attack by name. And he does not suggest that Israelis specifically or supporters of Israel plotted or carried out any of the recent attacks in Saudi Arabia. But he hints Saudi natives involved in terrorism are influenced by outsiders.

ABDULLAH (through translator): Unfortunately they have seduced some of our sons. What can we possibly do? They are our sons. They have been seduced and they fell for it.

TODD: We contacted representatives of the Saudi government for clarification. They said no one in the government would comment further on the Zionist characterization. And referred us to an earlier statement in which the crown prince vowed to go after terrorists and their sympathizers. We read the Israeli ambassador to the U.S. direct quotes from the translation.

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: The constant denial and blame of others by doing this, they are guilty not only of incitement and anti-Semitism and fueling an atmosphere of hatred, they are also protecting the real terrorists of the radical Islam. TODD: We also spoke to the leader of the Anti-Defamation League who suggests President Bush call his family's old friend to protest. Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And we have this just in to CNN. The direct response from a key member of the U.S. Congress to Crown Prince Abdullah's remarks. Congressman Tom Lantos, the ranking Democrat on the House international relations committee issued a statement calling Abdullah's remarks an outrage and blatant hypocrisy. Lantos is calling on the crown prince to retract his statements and to apologize.

Today at the United Nations here in New York, the so-called quartet renewed its efforts to find some sort of harmony in the Middle East peace process. Senior officials from the United States, Russia, the European Union and the United Nations called for a full Israeli withdrawal from Gaza just two days ago, Israel's Likud party voted against the proposal from the Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to pull out of Gaza but quartet members call the plan, and I'm quoting now, "a rare moment of opportunity."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think we have to look at now is how to move forward. That's what the quartet was focused on today, how to take advantage of this new opportunity of the evacuation of settlements as opposed to just relying on the statements of the past but something that can actually occur. The evacuation of settlements and how we can get the Palestinians ready to take advantage of this opportunity and to get back into the road map, get back on the path to peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Prime Minister Sharon has proposed evacuating all 21 settlements in Gaza and four settlements on the West Bank.

What our children do now can affect their health ten or 20 years down the road. That's why a new report should sound alarm bells in millions of American households right now. The news you need right after this break.

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BLITZER: High blood pressure, heart disease and kidney disease and stroke, for that matter, generally aren't the sort of illnesses you associate with children. But for overweight kids there's new evidence of a direct link between extra pounds now and life threatening disease later. CNN medical correspondent Christy Feig reports.

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CHRISTY FEIG, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: When Yun Lee (ph) came to America from Korea at age nine he wasn't overweight, but becoming a typical American teenager added about 30 pounds too many.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I ate a lot of fast food or pizza or a lot of cheese, a lot of cokes. I guess that became the source of the obesity.

FEIG: Now at 19, he's battling high blood pressure, a hidden danger researchers found in their study of overweight kids reported in the "Journal of the American Medical Association."

DR. PAUL MUNTNER, TULANE UNIVERSITY: We divided up our sample into ages 8 through 12 and 13 through 17, and we saw remarkably consistent results from blood pressure increased among children of all ages.

FEIG: In children, even a blood pressure increase of just a few points is significant. Because each one point increase in childhood raises the risk of high blood pressure as an adult by ten percent.

MUNTNER: If you have high blood pressure in a childhood, there is a much higher likelihood that you will sustain it into adulthood and if you do then you are into the group of people who are at risk for having kidney disease or stroke, heart disease.

FEIG: High blood pressure is called the silent killer because it doesn't often have many symptoms. The doctor say this should be a red flag to get kids moving more and eating less. Christy Feig, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We have a tall tale, that's coming up straight ahead. Just exactly how tall? Our picture of the day will give you the answer.

The results of our web question of the day, when we come back.

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BLITZER: He's believed to be the world's tallest man. He's also our picture of the day. Ukrainian Leonid Stadnyk measures in at 8'4" tall. That's a full seven inches taller than the current world record holder in Tunisia. Stadnick wears a size 25 shoe and not surprisingly, he says he has a very hard time finding footwear in his size.

Take a look at our web question of the day. The results, remember, look at this. Not scientific. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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