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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Bush Speaks Directly to Arab World; Battle Heats Up on Streets of Iraqi Cities
Aired May 05, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Damage control.
BRIG. GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: My army's been embarrassed by this. My army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my army, I apologize.
BLITZER: President Bush speaks directly to the Arab world.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The practices that took place in the prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America.
BLITZER: Can it make a difference?
The prison. As Iraqis protest on the outside we'll take you inside.
Urban combat. The battle heats up on the streets of Iraqi cities.
Out of control. On the scene of a shooting, a news chopper becomes the story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard it and I said to my sister. Don't let it fall on my roof.
BLITZER: We'll show you the amazing outcome.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, May 5, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Facing a storm of outrage over the abuses at a U.S.-run prison in Baghdad, U.S. officials are scrambling to control the damage and today that led to extraordinary statements of contrition by U.S. commanders and direct appeals to the Arab world by President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Amid the international uproar over Iraqi prisoner abuse and demonstrations outside the Abu Ghraib Prison, the U.S. military has now formally apologized to the Iraqi people. KIMMITT: My army has been embarrassed by this. my army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my army I apologize for what my soldiers did to your citizens. It was reprehensible and it was unacceptable.
BLITZER: Brigadier General Kimmitt also promised it would never happen again.
After touring the Abu Ghraib Prison, the new U.S. commander there made the same point.
MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: I would like to personally apologize to the people of Iraq for the actions of the small number of leaders and soldiers that violated our policy and may have committed criminal acts.
BLITZER: Major General Miller, who most recently commanded the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, promised that those responsible for the prisoner abuse will be brought to justice quickly.
But unlike the military brass and some of his own civilian advisers, President Bush stopped short of formally apologizing during two quickly arranged interviews with Arabic language television stations.
BUSH: First, people in Iraq must understand that I view those practices as abhorrent. They must also understand that what took place in that prison does not represent America that I know.
BLITZER: Speaking with reporters from the U.S. government-funded Al-Hurra channel and the Dubai-based Al Arabiya, he urged the Arab world to await the outcome of the formal allegations.
BUSH: We have nothing to hide. We believe in transparency because we're a free society. That's what free societies do.
They -- if there's a problem, they address those problems. And in a forthright, upfront matter. That's what is taking place.
BLITZER: The president pointedly did not grant an interview to the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera network, often accused by U.S officials of having a hostile, anti-American viewpoint.
But even Adnan Pachachi, a strong supporter of the U.S. led war and a possible leader of the planned new interim Iraqi government, says he would have liked the president to go further.
ADNAN PACHACHI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: An apology for the actions of some troops who of course are not representative of the majority of the armed forces here, I think that would have been useful. And it would have helped to some extent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: So why didn't President Bush's statement on Arab television include a specific apology? Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has been looking into that -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, White House spokesman Scott McClellan saying essentially that it wasn't necessary because the White House was apologizing on behalf of the president, that you've heard that from National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, that McClellan said it himself, that the White House and the president are deeply sorry for what has happened.
He said that he believed it was good enough, essentially, for the president to say what had happened was wrong, and that they would get to the bottom of it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We understand the president is now asking Congress for yet more billions to fund the operation in Iraq. What's the latest?
MALVEAUX: That;s absolutely right, Wolf. And what the White House has confirmed, what CNN has been reporting for the last two hours now in a statement from the president just released moments ago asking for $25 billion extra for Pentagon's fiscal 2005 year.
The statement saying, "This morning Secretary Rumsfeld and I discussed recommendations from our commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan about additional resources they may require." Goes on to say, "We do not know the precise cost of operations next year. Recent developments on the ground and increased demands on our troops indicate the need to plan for contingencies. We must make sure there's no disruption in funding and resources for our troops."
He said that it's a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year. He goes on to say when they have a better figure they will ask for it in the form of a supplemental request.
As you know, Wolf, this has political implications. The White House did not want to ask for additional funds before the November elections. They say, however, and the president argues, this is what the troop needs. And he will give it to him. His critics say this is just another example that he was not forthcoming in the beginning -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thanks, Suzanne, very much.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is getting further reaction, more developments on the prisoner abuse scandal from his beat up on Capitol Hill. Joe, tell our viewers what you're learning.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there has been a day-long negotiation to try in some way to get Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld here on Capitol Hill to testify about the allegations of prisoners abuse in Iraq. And that has ended with a compromise.
The agreement is for Donald Rumsfeld to appear on Friday morning on Capitol Hill before the Senate Armed Services Committee to talk about the allegations of prisoner abuse. He's expected to appear at that hearing with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and a high-ranking official from the Department of the Army. A number of senators had insisted that Rumsfeld appear here on Friday morning. However, Rumsfeld said that was not possible because he had a previously scheduled speech in Philadelphia.
Now, it appears that he will testify on Friday morning before the committee, a number of senators very interested in what the secretary of defense has to say about the allegations of prisoner abuse -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe, I want to be precise. They really wanted him to come tomorrow morning, Thursday morning, to appear. He had that speech on Thursday in Philadelphia. Now they've agreed for this open hearing on Friday morning. Is that right?
JOHNS: That's correct. That's our understanding, Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe Johns on Capitol Hill with that information just coming in. The defense secretary will testify Friday morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Senator John Kerry meanwhile says the Pentagon's response to the prisoner abuse scandal has been slow and inappropriate. At a news conference in Los Angeles, just a little while ago, Kerry was asked whether Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld should resign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I called for Secretary Rumsfeld's resignation months ago based on his miscalculations with respect to Iraq and based on the lack of a plan to win the peace.
With respect to this particular incident, we got to have the facts. I want to know as I think Americans do, is this isolated? Does it go up the chain of command? Who knew what? When? All of those questions have to be answered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Meanwhile in Iraq today, U.S. forces hit a strong hold of the Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The operation was in a town near Najaf where the Shi'ite cleric is believed to be holed up. Troops also seized a weapons cache kept in a girls' school. CNN's Jane Arraf has details now on the operation against Sadr's militia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: The U.S. military has launched offensive operations against the militia loyal to radical Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
In an effort to pressure al-Sadr and to defuse this threat from the military, they have moved into the cities Diwaniyah and Karbala. In Diwaniyah we were with the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment as they moved in tanks and air crafts. They attacked the headquarters of the Sadr bureau. They hit it with guns from a C-130 aircraft as well as cannon fire to send a message that the militia could no longer operate in that city.
In a nearby girls' school, U.S. military officials say they found early this morning three mortar guns as well as 17 mortar rounds and 10 Rocket-Propelled Grenades. They say that girls' school in Diwaniyah had been used to launch mortars against Spanish forces who had been in a base now occupied by the U.S. military.
Two soldiers were wounded in those offensive operations in Diwaniyah. One U.S. soldier killed in Karbala.
U.S. military officials say they will continue their defensive operations against the militia, continue to put pressure on Muqtada al-Sadr. And they say they will also continue other projects to win support from the residents of Najaf, including building public works projects, putting people back to work and sending the message that the residents here have a better future with Iraqi defense forces back in control of Najaf than they do with the banned militia. Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Al-Sadr's militia killed three American soldiers today. After that attack, U.S. forces launched an attack on positions held by insurgents near Najaf.
The coalition is trying to reach out to the people of Fallujah and battle anti-U.S. feelings. U.S. marines are pulling back from their positions in the city. While a new force made up of former members of the Iraqi army is trying to take over security positions inside the city, the U.S. military is promising to help clean up the city after last month's siege.
A former Iraqi intelligence official trained in Britain has been tapped to lead the temporary force named the First Battalion of the Fallujah Brigade.
Secretary of State Colin Powell says the treatment of detainees at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is also being investigated. Our national correspondent Bob Franken is joining us now with more on this part of the story. I know you've been to Guantanamo, Bob, on several occasions. What are you hearing about what is happening there?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: First of all we have to point out that the military is so rigid in its security at Guantanamo Bay, so little independent access by media that the public in effect is told that the military's word must be taken when the claim is made that the treatment of the detainees is proper, is appropriate. But we have some sources including people who are not aligned with the administration or the military who have spent a huge amount of time on a day to day basis inside Guantanamo. They say unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, there is nothing to accuse the military of, nothing that crosses that line into abuse of treatment.
Now, Amnesty International says that there is some quote, "problematic treatment," such as sleep deprivation which is a very easily used interrogation technique and the military easily acknowledges that it uses that technique, but nothing beyond that. Quoting another source, again, somebody who spent considerable time inside the prison at Guantanamo Bay, there is not the kind of abusive treatment that would be considered appropriate, the type of treatment that is being alleged in Iraq and Afghanistan.
BLITZER: Are they letting representatives of the International Red Cross or Amnesty International, other human rights groups into that facility at Guantanamo Bay to see what is going on?
FRANKEN: The International Red Cross does have access to Guantanamo Bay. The problem with the International Red Cross, as far as the public is concerned, is that it is just an article of faith with the ICRC. That there is no public statement about this. But there has also been no complaint from the International Red Cross.
BLITZER: Bob Franken with the latest on that.
To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld resign over U.S. military abuse of Iraqi prisoners?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.
An incredible story of survival from a helicopter crash. How the three people on board managed to survive this violent crash. That story. That's coming up later this hour.
Also, hundreds of homes threatened by wild fires. The latest from the front lines of the fire.
And the film fight between Disney and Michael Moore. The efforts to stop distribution of his new documentary film that bashes President Bush. We'll have details on all this plus more on the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're following a developing story. The Defense Secretary of the United States, Donald Rumsfeld, has now agreed to testify in open session Friday morning before the Senate armed services committee. Joining us now a key member of that committee, also a member of the intelligence committee, Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia.
How important will this testimony Friday morning, Senator, be?
Testimony from anybody at the sec. def. is always critically important. There are a couple of things we need to find out. Obviously we're getting the details of the ongoing investigation from the same folks that are reporting to him. I want to know when he knew about this because as members of the intelligence committee as well as the armed services committee we should have been advised of this situation long ago. And I'm not sure when the secretary found out about it. But he's going to be grilled pretty good about what happened, how it happened, and how far up the chain it looks like it went as of right now.
BLITZER: You've already been briefed not only behind closed doors, from the armed services committee but today before the intelligence committee. I know there's limits to what you can say. But did you get a decent explanation how this is possible that in this day and age these kind of abuses can happen?
CHAMBLISS: Well, I didn't get answers to all the questions that I asked, Wolf. And we're still going to press those questions. Now it's not that they didn't want to give us the information, it's simply the folks that were there didn't have the information. But this is going to be a very focused, a very detailed and a very thorough investigation. While it does take time, this didn't just happen yesterday. This happened several months ago. And it's time that the army came forward with some answers as to exactly what did happen, the time the CIA came forward with exactly what did happen. This is something we just -- we can't fool around with.
It's very, very serious when the president has to go on TV and apologize to the Iraqi people, that's not the American way and we have got to get to the bottom of it in a hurry. Move forward with prosecutions, court-martials beings whatever it may entail and really find out what happened and make sure it never happens again.
BLITZER: Senator Chambliss, I know there's a lot of anger among Democrats on Capitol Hill. But I don't remember a time when I have seen some anger by Republicans including yourself, Senator Warner, other key Republican leaders towards a Republican administration. Do you remember a time, an incident of this kind of magnitude?
CHAMBLISS: Well, fortunately this doesn't happen very often, otherwise you probably see that anger expressed. But my anger really is directed at the army right now. Because they are the ones that are guilty of this. And as to whatever happened, you know, they are the ones that are doing the investigation, but they have an obligation, Wolf, to come forward and tell members of Congress and hopefully early on in the process, earlier than now, in my opinion, tell the American people that this did happen, and what exactly did happen.
BLITZER: We just heard Senator Kerry say Rumsfeld probably should have resigned a long time ago. He'd like him to resign. Senator Joe Biden, a ranking Democratic on the foreign relations committee came close to calling for his resignation yesterday but he stopped just short of doing it. This is there a snowball momentum up on Capitol Hill calling for Rumsfeld to resign?
CHAMBLISS: I haven't seen that, Wolf. You know, this is a presidential election year. And they're still grasping for straws over there. So it's not surprising they would do something like this.
We all know Secretary Rumsfeld is very businesslike, he is very detailed, he is very forceful. And I assure you that he is going to make sure that what needs to be done is done correctly. It's done on time. And it's done in the right way.
BLITZER: Senator Chambliss, thanks very much for joining us. CHAMBLISS: Sure, Wolf. Always good to be with you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
New pictures inside Iraq's most notorious prison. Coming up, what news crews were allowed to see today and what demonstrators kept outside have to say about this scandal.
Also, former hostage Thomas Hamill's emotional reunion with his wife and what they say is his best medicine for recovery.
And tracking wild fires out West that threaten dozens of homes. We'll show you what is going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: An emotional reunion in Germany between a Mississippi man and his wife. Civilian contractor Thomas Hamill was held hostage in Iraq for more than three weeks before escaping on Sunday. CNN's Chris Burns has more from Landstuhl, Germany.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the main U.S. medical center for former hostages and POWs on their way home, military experts have been talking to Thomas Hamill about his three week ordeal, about how amid of wave of kidnapping and murders of foreign workers in Iraq last month he managed to survive the ambush of the fuel convoy he was driving in and free himself last Sunday.
Military officials say the experts are looking for clues about Hamill's two missing co-workers and a kidnapped U.S. soldier.
But apart from a brief appearance before cameras Tuesday, the struggling Mississippi dairy farmer who took the high paying truck driving job in Iraq to help his family, sought to stay clear of the limelight. Hamill and his wife, who for weeks helplessly watched images of her husband in captivity, had what hospital officials call a very emotional reunion Wednesday.
In a statement, Hamill suggested she was his best medicine for the bullet wound in his right arm.
MARIE SHAW, LANDSTUHL HOSPITAL SPOKESWOMAN: My recovery is definitely improving now that my wife Kellie is here with me.
BURNS: Kellie Hamill also packed things to bring her husband closer to home.
SHAW: Kellie brought him a pair of brown pointy brown boots, a pair of jeans and a red shirt.
BURNS: Hamill said he wanted to get home to hug his two children as soon as possible. But officials said he planned to remain at Landstuhl a bit longer to debrief the experts. SHAW: Please continue to play for all the civilians, soldiers, hostages, and my friends and colleagues who are still missing as well as their families that are going through this difficult time.
BURNS: A difficult time, Kellie....
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
SCOTT SILLIMAN, LAW PROFESSOR, DUKE UNIV.: ... a court, a federal court. If, in fact, those civilian private contractors who are not in a contract with the Department of Defense, perhaps with the CPA in Baghdad or even on their own, if in fact they were directly involved in the humiliating and degrading conduct at that prison or others, then they can be brought under what's called the War Crimes Act of 1996. Again federal district court.
We won't hear about it yet, but I'm sure someone at the Department of Justice is already thinking about it.
BLITZER: Is there a Nuremberg defense? In other words, we were just simply following orders that would be applicable in this kind of case?
SILLIMAN: Wolf, there is a Nuremberg defense, basically that I was told to do it by someone who was over me in responsibility. That does not work, however, if the individual either knew or was a person of reasonable intelligence who should have known that that conduct would never be tolerated, was outside the law.
A couple of these folks were corrections officers back here in the states. I find it hard to believe the type of conduct your viewers have seen in the pictures would not have been automatically construed to be outside the bounds of the law.
BLITZER: Scott Silliman of Duke University Law School, thanks very much for joining us.
SILLIMAN: Thanks, wolf.
BLITZER: Apologies and regret for the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal over at the Abu Ghraib Prison. But will that be enough to cool tensions in the Arab world? Up next, I'll speak live with Senator Joe Lieberman.
Plus, out of control. Find out what sent this news chopper into a tailspin and how the pilots lived to talk about it.
And voting vulnerabilities. High-tech electronic voting becomes high drama, new concerns it isn't as safe as once thought.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Much more on the growing controversy over prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. That's coming up. We'll take a look inside the prison and what the new prison commander is saying about the abuse. We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
There was no apology but President Bush appeared on two Arabic- language television networks trying to do some serious damage control over the prisoner abuse scandal. He appeared on the American-funded Al-Hurra television station, as well as Al-Arabiya. The president called the treatment of Iraqi prisoners abhorrent and un-American and he vowed that those responsible will be brought to justice.
It looks like the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is costing the White House much more than expected, namely $25 billion more. According to most congressional and administration sources, that's the amount the Bush administration will seek from Congress in the coming months.
In Washington, a hearing on electronic voting machines. The U.S. Election Assistance Commission heard concerns about failures and manipulation. There was general agreement that paper receipts would alleviate most issues, but some disagreement over how soon machines could be retrofitted to leave a paper trail.
Iraqis have paid close attention to the apologies by U.S. commanders and especially the television interviews with President Bush. But the focus in Baghdad today was the Abu Ghraib Prison, inside and outside the walls.
CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reaction to President Bush's interviews with those two Arabic satellite news networks, mixed.
We had a crew at a cafe here in Baghdad. One man said that these crimes simply are beyond comprehension. Another man said it's good, good that these people who were involved in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib will be held accountable.
Outside Abu Ghraib today, there was a large demonstration organized by the Society of Muslim Scholars. They put forward a list of demands to the authorities at Abu Ghraib. Those demands included trials for the soldiers who were involved in the abuse incidents. They want Iraqi lawyers as well as international human rights organizations to have full access to the prison. They also want a greater Iraqi role in how the prison is administered.
Now, after, I spoke with one of the religious leaders who had met with the Americans, and he told me that even though they put forward their demands, they don't have much faith in the promises of U.S. officials to rectify the situation inside the prison.
Meanwhile, inside the prison, reporters were taken on a tour of this facility by its new commander, Major General Geoffrey Miller, who pledged that abuse would never happen again at Abu Ghraib.
MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: I will personally guarantee that this will not happen again in any of the organizations that we have that do detention, intelligence gathering, and moving toward A speedy trial to those who are referred to trial.
WEDEMAN: General Miller has also made it clear that many of the interrogation practices that have raised -- some rather sparked criticism -- will be discontinued. He also said that in the coming week, 300 prisoners will be released and next week, 400 will be released.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're getting new information coming out of the White House.
Once again, let's turn to our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
Suzanne, what have you learned?
MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, as you know, the president met with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld earlier today at the White House, a senior administration official now telling us that the president told Rumsfeld that he was not satisfied with the way that he received this information, the way that this was handled, this regarding those photos that were broadcast around the world.
As you know, the president said that he did not find out about those photos until essentially the whole world found out when they were broadcast. He didn't get a heads-up on the existence of the photos, nor did he get a heads-up that they were actually going to be broadcast. This was something that General Abizaid knew, as well as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff weeks ago. And they were actually in negotiations with CBS News in terms of when that would actually air.
They also had a contingency plan about how to deal with the impact. The president was not aware of any of that at the time. And we are told by a senior administration official that the president was not satisfied with that. He made his views known to the secretary today. We can also tell you, however, Wolf, that publicly the president said that he is still confident in Rumsfeld and that his spokesman says that he is not asking for his resignation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux, thanks very much for that.
Let's go back to Capitol Hill right now. A key member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Joe Lieberman, is joining us live.
Senator Lieberman, do you want him to resign?
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: First off, the answer, the direct answer is no.
The second obvious answer is that that's up to Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush. But I would say this. I don't know anything about the secretary's handling of this particular crisis that would lead me to ask or suggest to the president that the secretary of defense be removed at a critical moment in a war that matters a lot to America's security and matters to the Iraqi people. So my answer is no.
BLITZER: Because the president is clearly frustrated that he had to learn about this from the news media. I don't believe anybody on Capitol Hill was briefed, your committee, the Armed Services Committee, the Intelligence Committee, neither in the House nor the Senate. There's a lot of anger up there, isn't there?
LIEBERMAN: Yes, there's a growing circle of people who are angry and they are angry not just because we weren't told when CBS, as you just reported, was, but because in not going public with this earlier, the Pentagon has weakened our position.
If you look at the record here, the Army really reacted very quickly when the soldier came forward in the middle of January with complaints about what was happening at the Abu Ghraib Prison. They assigned an investigator. He did a report. That report was approved by CENTCOM early in April. It should have been made public.
Anybody who thinks you can hide bad news around here is foolishly mistaken. And the administration -- America could have gotten ahead of the problem and shown that we took it seriously and were immediately taking steps to make sure these people were punished. And it just didn't happen, again.
BLITZER: We learned this hour, Senator, that the defense secretary has now agreed to appear before your committee, the Armed Services Committee, Friday morning. What do you specifically want to ask him?
LIEBERMAN: Yes, well, in the first -- this is an important session. I hope Don Rumsfeld comes forward and just says, like a human being, I made some mistakes. People in the chain of command made some mistakes. We should have gone public with this.
I want to ask him whether we are really giving these prisoners their rights under the Geneva Convention. And if we are not, we should do that, officially do that. That seems to be required by the Geneva Convention. I want to suggest to him that we let the International Red Cross into all of our prisons to make sure that none of this is happening anywhere else.
And I might suggest that we have a stand-down. And just very briefly, if a particular kind of aircraft the military has, has had a run of accidents, the secretary of defense, the president, can order a stand-down, that all the planes can stay out of the air for a couple of days. In this case, we ought to have a stand-down of all personnel dealing with prisoners and that they spend a day or two if not critically involved, those there, too, in learning how to conduct these interrogations which are important to our security, but to do it within American law and within the Geneva Convention. That is what America is all about. That will help us win the larger battle we have to win on the war on terrorism for the hearts and minds of the people in the Muslim world. This was a heartbreaking setback. But you know what? There's a war on. And let's not spend too much time here in Congress abusing and accusing each other. Let's deal with the problem and get back to winning the war.
BLITZER: Senator Lieberman, the president stopped short of formally apologizing during those two Arabic-language television interviews earlier today, although the military brass, as you probably know by now, has formally apologized, General Kimmitt and others as well. Should the president have used that occasion to formally apologize?
LIEBERMAN: Wolf, I saw clips of the appearance by the president on the Arab TV network, so I can't judge the whole statement. But it sure seemed to me that the tone of all of this was that we regret it.
It was effectively an apology. And more than that, it was a statement that this was immoral and intolerable behavior. The United States will not stand for it. These people will be punished and it won't happen again. But, you know, let's put it all in perspective again. These people are suspected of participating in a war against us that's killing Americans every day. Americans are in the line of fire. Let's get this done and not take the time of a lot of people in the military who ought to be focused on protecting our soldiers over there and helping them succeed.
And that's what I'd like to see this administration do, and Congress, too.
BLITZER: Senator Lieberman, thanks very much for joining us. We'll be watching Friday morning, when the defense secretary appears before your committee. Appreciate it very much.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: They were out to cover the news. Instead, these pilots ended up becoming the news, amazing pictures and a harrowing tale as a news chopper spins out of control.
Plus, battling a blaze. Firefighters in Southern California race against time to keep fierce flames at bay.
And corporate control. The mouse ears lock horns with Miramax over Michael Moore's newest film. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a quick news at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): There were calls for a judicial review in London's High Court today; 14 Iraqi families say their relatives were unlawfully killed by British troops in Iraq after President Bush declared major combat ended. They want compensation from the British government, but the Defense Ministry refuses to accept responsibility.
In Athens, three bombs exploded outside a heavily guarded police station. There was extensive damage, but no one was hurt. An anonymous caller warned a newspaper about the bombs. The blasts come 100 days before the start of the Summer Olympic Games in Greece. Officials say the explosions won't affect the safety of the games.
Another phase of voting got under way in India today, with the ruling coalition trying to retain power. The Indian prime minister is up for reelection in his home district. The opposing Congress Party is headed by Italian-born Sonia Gandhi, an in-law of the family that ruled India for years.
A milestone was reached in Italian politics today. Prime minister Silvio Berlusconi has survived controversy and criminal charges to become Italy's longest serving prime minister since the end of World War II. He beat the previous record of 1,059 days. There have been 59 administrations in Italy since the republic was founded in 1946.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Federal investigators are looking into the crash of a television news helicopter in New York City. Cameras were rolling when it happened. And, as the videotape shows, it's amazing anyone survived.
Here's CNN's Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seeing it for the first time in real time, it seems evident this aircraft and everyone inside are doomed. A TV news helicopter twists, the pilot clearly struggling, slams into one Brooklyn rooftop, then contorts into another and disintegrates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a horrible, horrible thing to witness.
TODD: The scene unfolds as WNBC and competitor WABC send choppers over Brooklyn's Flatbush neighborhood during their 6:00 newscasts Tuesday to cover a shooting. This footage taken by the crew aboard the WABC helicopter as WNBC's chopper starts to nosedive.
PAUL SMITH, WABC HELICOPTER PILOT: You have a feeling of helplessness because we're all kind of brothers. You know, we all fly. We all fly in close proximity. We work well together, even though we compete. And you want to be able to help, but you want.
TODD: A sense of relief comes just minutes later. As if what just happened wasn't dramatic enough, a man stumbles out and calls for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it is Andrew. Andrew is out.
TODD: He's the reporter, Andrew Torres. Remarkably, Torres, the pilot and trainee inside escape with relatively minor injuries. No one on the ground is hurt, although the two buildings of evacuated and some residents shaken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was getting ready to go out. And I heard this thing circling and circling. Eventually I heard like a crash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard it and I said to my sister, don't let it fall on my roof.
TODD: The debris is clear. The questions are not. Investigators say they are examining the choppers tail rotor system, but they are quick with a disclaimer.
LUKE SCHIAVA, NTSB: We are not at a point right now where we're making any suggestion as to a cause. We're just trying to get as much factual information as we can. We have a lot of work -- a lot of work still to do. And we don't want to jump to any conclusions.
TODD: WNBC referred us to the aviation company it contracts with, which also employs the three crew members, for more information on their condition and experience. That company, Helinet, would only give us a prepared statement, saying they understand that their crew members are in stable condition.
WABC helicopter reporter Shannon Sohn, who filmed the crash, had more detail.
SHANNON SOHN, WABC REPORTER: It happened that Andrew Torres is someone that is very close to us.
TODD: It also happens, she says, that her husband is the pilot who usually flies that same helicopter in the morning.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Amazing that they survived, but thank God they did.
Meanwhile, cooler temperatures and calmer winds are making things a little easier today for the Southern California firefighters. A half dozen fires have burned more than 20,000 acres from Santa Barbara to San Diego counties. At least 20 homes and buildings have been destroyed and hundreds of people remain evacuated.
Disney squares off against Academy Award-winning filmmaker Michael Moore, the fight over distributing a documentary film that Moore admits bashes the president and why Disney is fighting it.
The story right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Hollywood gadfly Michael Moore is involved in a new fight, this time with the Walt Disney Company. Moore says Disney has blocked U.S. distribution of his latest documentary, "Fahrenheit 911," reportedly because it's critical of President Bush.
CNN's Jen Rogers has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Moore has courted controversy before. And the documentary filmmaker is at it again with his new film "Fahrenheit 911," which he is putting the finishing touches on right now.
Now, this film is said to be sharply critical of President Bush. What exactly is in this film? Well, it is said that the movie investigates links between Bush and prominent Saudis, including the family of Osama bin Laden. Now, that topic appears too hot for the Walt Disney Company to touch. Michael Moore in a statement on his Web site this morning said that Disney is blocking distribution of this film through its subsidiary Miramax.
Now, Miramax says it is still reviewing its options with Disney. Michael Eisner, the chief executive officer of the Walt Disney Company, said for his part that this is an old story, that Michael Moore will find distribution somewhere, but that it will not be with Disney. Now, in the letter that was posted on Michael Moore's Web site earlier today, he said that: "The whole story behind this and other attempts to kill our movie will be told in more detail as the days and weeks go on. For nearly a year, this struggle has been a lesson in just how difficult it is in this country to create a piece of art that might upset those in charge. Well, OK, sorry, it will upset them big time. Did I mention it's a comedy?"
(on camera): Well, comedy or not, this is certainly becoming a drama here at the Walt Disney Company, a drama during this presidential election year.
Jen Rogers, CNN Financial News, Burbank, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And Disney has issued a statement among other things, saying this: "Contrary to his assertions, Mr. Moore has had and continues to have every opportunity to either find another distributor or distribute the film himself."
And this note to our viewers: Michael Moore will join Aaron Brown tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," a special interview. That is coming up 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight, "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN."
It's far from the Triple Crown of racing, but a big event in the U.K. nevertheless, and it's attracting big crowds. Coming up, our picture of the day, the sheep racing spectacle. We'll show you what is going on and we'll get the final results from our "Web Question of the Day" " That's coming up next as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our picture of the day, England's 13th so-called Grand National; 16 sheep carrying jockeys knitted out of wool competed over a furlong. That's about an eighth of a mile. The sheep named Big Boy won.
Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this, remembering it's not a scientific poll.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 5, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Damage control.
BRIG. GENERAL MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: My army's been embarrassed by this. My army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my army, I apologize.
BLITZER: President Bush speaks directly to the Arab world.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The practices that took place in the prison are abhorrent and they don't represent America.
BLITZER: Can it make a difference?
The prison. As Iraqis protest on the outside we'll take you inside.
Urban combat. The battle heats up on the streets of Iraqi cities.
Out of control. On the scene of a shooting, a news chopper becomes the story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard it and I said to my sister. Don't let it fall on my roof.
BLITZER: We'll show you the amazing outcome.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, May 5, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Facing a storm of outrage over the abuses at a U.S.-run prison in Baghdad, U.S. officials are scrambling to control the damage and today that led to extraordinary statements of contrition by U.S. commanders and direct appeals to the Arab world by President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Amid the international uproar over Iraqi prisoner abuse and demonstrations outside the Abu Ghraib Prison, the U.S. military has now formally apologized to the Iraqi people. KIMMITT: My army has been embarrassed by this. my army's been shamed by this. And on behalf of my army I apologize for what my soldiers did to your citizens. It was reprehensible and it was unacceptable.
BLITZER: Brigadier General Kimmitt also promised it would never happen again.
After touring the Abu Ghraib Prison, the new U.S. commander there made the same point.
MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: I would like to personally apologize to the people of Iraq for the actions of the small number of leaders and soldiers that violated our policy and may have committed criminal acts.
BLITZER: Major General Miller, who most recently commanded the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, promised that those responsible for the prisoner abuse will be brought to justice quickly.
But unlike the military brass and some of his own civilian advisers, President Bush stopped short of formally apologizing during two quickly arranged interviews with Arabic language television stations.
BUSH: First, people in Iraq must understand that I view those practices as abhorrent. They must also understand that what took place in that prison does not represent America that I know.
BLITZER: Speaking with reporters from the U.S. government-funded Al-Hurra channel and the Dubai-based Al Arabiya, he urged the Arab world to await the outcome of the formal allegations.
BUSH: We have nothing to hide. We believe in transparency because we're a free society. That's what free societies do.
They -- if there's a problem, they address those problems. And in a forthright, upfront matter. That's what is taking place.
BLITZER: The president pointedly did not grant an interview to the Qatar-based Al-Jazeera network, often accused by U.S officials of having a hostile, anti-American viewpoint.
But even Adnan Pachachi, a strong supporter of the U.S. led war and a possible leader of the planned new interim Iraqi government, says he would have liked the president to go further.
ADNAN PACHACHI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: An apology for the actions of some troops who of course are not representative of the majority of the armed forces here, I think that would have been useful. And it would have helped to some extent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: So why didn't President Bush's statement on Arab television include a specific apology? Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux has been looking into that -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, White House spokesman Scott McClellan saying essentially that it wasn't necessary because the White House was apologizing on behalf of the president, that you've heard that from National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, that McClellan said it himself, that the White House and the president are deeply sorry for what has happened.
He said that he believed it was good enough, essentially, for the president to say what had happened was wrong, and that they would get to the bottom of it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We understand the president is now asking Congress for yet more billions to fund the operation in Iraq. What's the latest?
MALVEAUX: That;s absolutely right, Wolf. And what the White House has confirmed, what CNN has been reporting for the last two hours now in a statement from the president just released moments ago asking for $25 billion extra for Pentagon's fiscal 2005 year.
The statement saying, "This morning Secretary Rumsfeld and I discussed recommendations from our commanders in Iraq and Afghanistan about additional resources they may require." Goes on to say, "We do not know the precise cost of operations next year. Recent developments on the ground and increased demands on our troops indicate the need to plan for contingencies. We must make sure there's no disruption in funding and resources for our troops."
He said that it's a $25 billion contingency reserve fund for the coming fiscal year. He goes on to say when they have a better figure they will ask for it in the form of a supplemental request.
As you know, Wolf, this has political implications. The White House did not want to ask for additional funds before the November elections. They say, however, and the president argues, this is what the troop needs. And he will give it to him. His critics say this is just another example that he was not forthcoming in the beginning -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House. Thanks, Suzanne, very much.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is getting further reaction, more developments on the prisoner abuse scandal from his beat up on Capitol Hill. Joe, tell our viewers what you're learning.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there has been a day-long negotiation to try in some way to get Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld here on Capitol Hill to testify about the allegations of prisoners abuse in Iraq. And that has ended with a compromise.
The agreement is for Donald Rumsfeld to appear on Friday morning on Capitol Hill before the Senate Armed Services Committee to talk about the allegations of prisoner abuse. He's expected to appear at that hearing with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs and a high-ranking official from the Department of the Army. A number of senators had insisted that Rumsfeld appear here on Friday morning. However, Rumsfeld said that was not possible because he had a previously scheduled speech in Philadelphia.
Now, it appears that he will testify on Friday morning before the committee, a number of senators very interested in what the secretary of defense has to say about the allegations of prisoner abuse -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe, I want to be precise. They really wanted him to come tomorrow morning, Thursday morning, to appear. He had that speech on Thursday in Philadelphia. Now they've agreed for this open hearing on Friday morning. Is that right?
JOHNS: That's correct. That's our understanding, Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe Johns on Capitol Hill with that information just coming in. The defense secretary will testify Friday morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Senator John Kerry meanwhile says the Pentagon's response to the prisoner abuse scandal has been slow and inappropriate. At a news conference in Los Angeles, just a little while ago, Kerry was asked whether Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld should resign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I called for Secretary Rumsfeld's resignation months ago based on his miscalculations with respect to Iraq and based on the lack of a plan to win the peace.
With respect to this particular incident, we got to have the facts. I want to know as I think Americans do, is this isolated? Does it go up the chain of command? Who knew what? When? All of those questions have to be answered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Meanwhile in Iraq today, U.S. forces hit a strong hold of the Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The operation was in a town near Najaf where the Shi'ite cleric is believed to be holed up. Troops also seized a weapons cache kept in a girls' school. CNN's Jane Arraf has details now on the operation against Sadr's militia.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: The U.S. military has launched offensive operations against the militia loyal to radical Shi'ite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
In an effort to pressure al-Sadr and to defuse this threat from the military, they have moved into the cities Diwaniyah and Karbala. In Diwaniyah we were with the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment as they moved in tanks and air crafts. They attacked the headquarters of the Sadr bureau. They hit it with guns from a C-130 aircraft as well as cannon fire to send a message that the militia could no longer operate in that city.
In a nearby girls' school, U.S. military officials say they found early this morning three mortar guns as well as 17 mortar rounds and 10 Rocket-Propelled Grenades. They say that girls' school in Diwaniyah had been used to launch mortars against Spanish forces who had been in a base now occupied by the U.S. military.
Two soldiers were wounded in those offensive operations in Diwaniyah. One U.S. soldier killed in Karbala.
U.S. military officials say they will continue their defensive operations against the militia, continue to put pressure on Muqtada al-Sadr. And they say they will also continue other projects to win support from the residents of Najaf, including building public works projects, putting people back to work and sending the message that the residents here have a better future with Iraqi defense forces back in control of Najaf than they do with the banned militia. Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Najaf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Al-Sadr's militia killed three American soldiers today. After that attack, U.S. forces launched an attack on positions held by insurgents near Najaf.
The coalition is trying to reach out to the people of Fallujah and battle anti-U.S. feelings. U.S. marines are pulling back from their positions in the city. While a new force made up of former members of the Iraqi army is trying to take over security positions inside the city, the U.S. military is promising to help clean up the city after last month's siege.
A former Iraqi intelligence official trained in Britain has been tapped to lead the temporary force named the First Battalion of the Fallujah Brigade.
Secretary of State Colin Powell says the treatment of detainees at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba is also being investigated. Our national correspondent Bob Franken is joining us now with more on this part of the story. I know you've been to Guantanamo, Bob, on several occasions. What are you hearing about what is happening there?
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: First of all we have to point out that the military is so rigid in its security at Guantanamo Bay, so little independent access by media that the public in effect is told that the military's word must be taken when the claim is made that the treatment of the detainees is proper, is appropriate. But we have some sources including people who are not aligned with the administration or the military who have spent a huge amount of time on a day to day basis inside Guantanamo. They say unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, there is nothing to accuse the military of, nothing that crosses that line into abuse of treatment.
Now, Amnesty International says that there is some quote, "problematic treatment," such as sleep deprivation which is a very easily used interrogation technique and the military easily acknowledges that it uses that technique, but nothing beyond that. Quoting another source, again, somebody who spent considerable time inside the prison at Guantanamo Bay, there is not the kind of abusive treatment that would be considered appropriate, the type of treatment that is being alleged in Iraq and Afghanistan.
BLITZER: Are they letting representatives of the International Red Cross or Amnesty International, other human rights groups into that facility at Guantanamo Bay to see what is going on?
FRANKEN: The International Red Cross does have access to Guantanamo Bay. The problem with the International Red Cross, as far as the public is concerned, is that it is just an article of faith with the ICRC. That there is no public statement about this. But there has also been no complaint from the International Red Cross.
BLITZER: Bob Franken with the latest on that.
To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this. "Should Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld resign over U.S. military abuse of Iraqi prisoners?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.
An incredible story of survival from a helicopter crash. How the three people on board managed to survive this violent crash. That story. That's coming up later this hour.
Also, hundreds of homes threatened by wild fires. The latest from the front lines of the fire.
And the film fight between Disney and Michael Moore. The efforts to stop distribution of his new documentary film that bashes President Bush. We'll have details on all this plus more on the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. We're following a developing story. The Defense Secretary of the United States, Donald Rumsfeld, has now agreed to testify in open session Friday morning before the Senate armed services committee. Joining us now a key member of that committee, also a member of the intelligence committee, Republican Senator Saxby Chambliss of Georgia.
How important will this testimony Friday morning, Senator, be?
Testimony from anybody at the sec. def. is always critically important. There are a couple of things we need to find out. Obviously we're getting the details of the ongoing investigation from the same folks that are reporting to him. I want to know when he knew about this because as members of the intelligence committee as well as the armed services committee we should have been advised of this situation long ago. And I'm not sure when the secretary found out about it. But he's going to be grilled pretty good about what happened, how it happened, and how far up the chain it looks like it went as of right now.
BLITZER: You've already been briefed not only behind closed doors, from the armed services committee but today before the intelligence committee. I know there's limits to what you can say. But did you get a decent explanation how this is possible that in this day and age these kind of abuses can happen?
CHAMBLISS: Well, I didn't get answers to all the questions that I asked, Wolf. And we're still going to press those questions. Now it's not that they didn't want to give us the information, it's simply the folks that were there didn't have the information. But this is going to be a very focused, a very detailed and a very thorough investigation. While it does take time, this didn't just happen yesterday. This happened several months ago. And it's time that the army came forward with some answers as to exactly what did happen, the time the CIA came forward with exactly what did happen. This is something we just -- we can't fool around with.
It's very, very serious when the president has to go on TV and apologize to the Iraqi people, that's not the American way and we have got to get to the bottom of it in a hurry. Move forward with prosecutions, court-martials beings whatever it may entail and really find out what happened and make sure it never happens again.
BLITZER: Senator Chambliss, I know there's a lot of anger among Democrats on Capitol Hill. But I don't remember a time when I have seen some anger by Republicans including yourself, Senator Warner, other key Republican leaders towards a Republican administration. Do you remember a time, an incident of this kind of magnitude?
CHAMBLISS: Well, fortunately this doesn't happen very often, otherwise you probably see that anger expressed. But my anger really is directed at the army right now. Because they are the ones that are guilty of this. And as to whatever happened, you know, they are the ones that are doing the investigation, but they have an obligation, Wolf, to come forward and tell members of Congress and hopefully early on in the process, earlier than now, in my opinion, tell the American people that this did happen, and what exactly did happen.
BLITZER: We just heard Senator Kerry say Rumsfeld probably should have resigned a long time ago. He'd like him to resign. Senator Joe Biden, a ranking Democratic on the foreign relations committee came close to calling for his resignation yesterday but he stopped just short of doing it. This is there a snowball momentum up on Capitol Hill calling for Rumsfeld to resign?
CHAMBLISS: I haven't seen that, Wolf. You know, this is a presidential election year. And they're still grasping for straws over there. So it's not surprising they would do something like this.
We all know Secretary Rumsfeld is very businesslike, he is very detailed, he is very forceful. And I assure you that he is going to make sure that what needs to be done is done correctly. It's done on time. And it's done in the right way.
BLITZER: Senator Chambliss, thanks very much for joining us. CHAMBLISS: Sure, Wolf. Always good to be with you.
BLITZER: Thank you.
New pictures inside Iraq's most notorious prison. Coming up, what news crews were allowed to see today and what demonstrators kept outside have to say about this scandal.
Also, former hostage Thomas Hamill's emotional reunion with his wife and what they say is his best medicine for recovery.
And tracking wild fires out West that threaten dozens of homes. We'll show you what is going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: An emotional reunion in Germany between a Mississippi man and his wife. Civilian contractor Thomas Hamill was held hostage in Iraq for more than three weeks before escaping on Sunday. CNN's Chris Burns has more from Landstuhl, Germany.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At the main U.S. medical center for former hostages and POWs on their way home, military experts have been talking to Thomas Hamill about his three week ordeal, about how amid of wave of kidnapping and murders of foreign workers in Iraq last month he managed to survive the ambush of the fuel convoy he was driving in and free himself last Sunday.
Military officials say the experts are looking for clues about Hamill's two missing co-workers and a kidnapped U.S. soldier.
But apart from a brief appearance before cameras Tuesday, the struggling Mississippi dairy farmer who took the high paying truck driving job in Iraq to help his family, sought to stay clear of the limelight. Hamill and his wife, who for weeks helplessly watched images of her husband in captivity, had what hospital officials call a very emotional reunion Wednesday.
In a statement, Hamill suggested she was his best medicine for the bullet wound in his right arm.
MARIE SHAW, LANDSTUHL HOSPITAL SPOKESWOMAN: My recovery is definitely improving now that my wife Kellie is here with me.
BURNS: Kellie Hamill also packed things to bring her husband closer to home.
SHAW: Kellie brought him a pair of brown pointy brown boots, a pair of jeans and a red shirt.
BURNS: Hamill said he wanted to get home to hug his two children as soon as possible. But officials said he planned to remain at Landstuhl a bit longer to debrief the experts. SHAW: Please continue to play for all the civilians, soldiers, hostages, and my friends and colleagues who are still missing as well as their families that are going through this difficult time.
BURNS: A difficult time, Kellie....
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
SCOTT SILLIMAN, LAW PROFESSOR, DUKE UNIV.: ... a court, a federal court. If, in fact, those civilian private contractors who are not in a contract with the Department of Defense, perhaps with the CPA in Baghdad or even on their own, if in fact they were directly involved in the humiliating and degrading conduct at that prison or others, then they can be brought under what's called the War Crimes Act of 1996. Again federal district court.
We won't hear about it yet, but I'm sure someone at the Department of Justice is already thinking about it.
BLITZER: Is there a Nuremberg defense? In other words, we were just simply following orders that would be applicable in this kind of case?
SILLIMAN: Wolf, there is a Nuremberg defense, basically that I was told to do it by someone who was over me in responsibility. That does not work, however, if the individual either knew or was a person of reasonable intelligence who should have known that that conduct would never be tolerated, was outside the law.
A couple of these folks were corrections officers back here in the states. I find it hard to believe the type of conduct your viewers have seen in the pictures would not have been automatically construed to be outside the bounds of the law.
BLITZER: Scott Silliman of Duke University Law School, thanks very much for joining us.
SILLIMAN: Thanks, wolf.
BLITZER: Apologies and regret for the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal over at the Abu Ghraib Prison. But will that be enough to cool tensions in the Arab world? Up next, I'll speak live with Senator Joe Lieberman.
Plus, out of control. Find out what sent this news chopper into a tailspin and how the pilots lived to talk about it.
And voting vulnerabilities. High-tech electronic voting becomes high drama, new concerns it isn't as safe as once thought.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Much more on the growing controversy over prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. That's coming up. We'll take a look inside the prison and what the new prison commander is saying about the abuse. We'll get to all of that. First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
There was no apology but President Bush appeared on two Arabic- language television networks trying to do some serious damage control over the prisoner abuse scandal. He appeared on the American-funded Al-Hurra television station, as well as Al-Arabiya. The president called the treatment of Iraqi prisoners abhorrent and un-American and he vowed that those responsible will be brought to justice.
It looks like the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is costing the White House much more than expected, namely $25 billion more. According to most congressional and administration sources, that's the amount the Bush administration will seek from Congress in the coming months.
In Washington, a hearing on electronic voting machines. The U.S. Election Assistance Commission heard concerns about failures and manipulation. There was general agreement that paper receipts would alleviate most issues, but some disagreement over how soon machines could be retrofitted to leave a paper trail.
Iraqis have paid close attention to the apologies by U.S. commanders and especially the television interviews with President Bush. But the focus in Baghdad today was the Abu Ghraib Prison, inside and outside the walls.
CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from the Iraqi capital.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Reaction to President Bush's interviews with those two Arabic satellite news networks, mixed.
We had a crew at a cafe here in Baghdad. One man said that these crimes simply are beyond comprehension. Another man said it's good, good that these people who were involved in the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib will be held accountable.
Outside Abu Ghraib today, there was a large demonstration organized by the Society of Muslim Scholars. They put forward a list of demands to the authorities at Abu Ghraib. Those demands included trials for the soldiers who were involved in the abuse incidents. They want Iraqi lawyers as well as international human rights organizations to have full access to the prison. They also want a greater Iraqi role in how the prison is administered.
Now, after, I spoke with one of the religious leaders who had met with the Americans, and he told me that even though they put forward their demands, they don't have much faith in the promises of U.S. officials to rectify the situation inside the prison.
Meanwhile, inside the prison, reporters were taken on a tour of this facility by its new commander, Major General Geoffrey Miller, who pledged that abuse would never happen again at Abu Ghraib.
MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: I will personally guarantee that this will not happen again in any of the organizations that we have that do detention, intelligence gathering, and moving toward A speedy trial to those who are referred to trial.
WEDEMAN: General Miller has also made it clear that many of the interrogation practices that have raised -- some rather sparked criticism -- will be discontinued. He also said that in the coming week, 300 prisoners will be released and next week, 400 will be released.
I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're getting new information coming out of the White House.
Once again, let's turn to our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
Suzanne, what have you learned?
MALVEAUX: Well, Wolf, as you know, the president met with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld earlier today at the White House, a senior administration official now telling us that the president told Rumsfeld that he was not satisfied with the way that he received this information, the way that this was handled, this regarding those photos that were broadcast around the world.
As you know, the president said that he did not find out about those photos until essentially the whole world found out when they were broadcast. He didn't get a heads-up on the existence of the photos, nor did he get a heads-up that they were actually going to be broadcast. This was something that General Abizaid knew, as well as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff weeks ago. And they were actually in negotiations with CBS News in terms of when that would actually air.
They also had a contingency plan about how to deal with the impact. The president was not aware of any of that at the time. And we are told by a senior administration official that the president was not satisfied with that. He made his views known to the secretary today. We can also tell you, however, Wolf, that publicly the president said that he is still confident in Rumsfeld and that his spokesman says that he is not asking for his resignation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Suzanne Malveaux, thanks very much for that.
Let's go back to Capitol Hill right now. A key member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Joe Lieberman, is joining us live.
Senator Lieberman, do you want him to resign?
SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: First off, the answer, the direct answer is no.
The second obvious answer is that that's up to Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush. But I would say this. I don't know anything about the secretary's handling of this particular crisis that would lead me to ask or suggest to the president that the secretary of defense be removed at a critical moment in a war that matters a lot to America's security and matters to the Iraqi people. So my answer is no.
BLITZER: Because the president is clearly frustrated that he had to learn about this from the news media. I don't believe anybody on Capitol Hill was briefed, your committee, the Armed Services Committee, the Intelligence Committee, neither in the House nor the Senate. There's a lot of anger up there, isn't there?
LIEBERMAN: Yes, there's a growing circle of people who are angry and they are angry not just because we weren't told when CBS, as you just reported, was, but because in not going public with this earlier, the Pentagon has weakened our position.
If you look at the record here, the Army really reacted very quickly when the soldier came forward in the middle of January with complaints about what was happening at the Abu Ghraib Prison. They assigned an investigator. He did a report. That report was approved by CENTCOM early in April. It should have been made public.
Anybody who thinks you can hide bad news around here is foolishly mistaken. And the administration -- America could have gotten ahead of the problem and shown that we took it seriously and were immediately taking steps to make sure these people were punished. And it just didn't happen, again.
BLITZER: We learned this hour, Senator, that the defense secretary has now agreed to appear before your committee, the Armed Services Committee, Friday morning. What do you specifically want to ask him?
LIEBERMAN: Yes, well, in the first -- this is an important session. I hope Don Rumsfeld comes forward and just says, like a human being, I made some mistakes. People in the chain of command made some mistakes. We should have gone public with this.
I want to ask him whether we are really giving these prisoners their rights under the Geneva Convention. And if we are not, we should do that, officially do that. That seems to be required by the Geneva Convention. I want to suggest to him that we let the International Red Cross into all of our prisons to make sure that none of this is happening anywhere else.
And I might suggest that we have a stand-down. And just very briefly, if a particular kind of aircraft the military has, has had a run of accidents, the secretary of defense, the president, can order a stand-down, that all the planes can stay out of the air for a couple of days. In this case, we ought to have a stand-down of all personnel dealing with prisoners and that they spend a day or two if not critically involved, those there, too, in learning how to conduct these interrogations which are important to our security, but to do it within American law and within the Geneva Convention. That is what America is all about. That will help us win the larger battle we have to win on the war on terrorism for the hearts and minds of the people in the Muslim world. This was a heartbreaking setback. But you know what? There's a war on. And let's not spend too much time here in Congress abusing and accusing each other. Let's deal with the problem and get back to winning the war.
BLITZER: Senator Lieberman, the president stopped short of formally apologizing during those two Arabic-language television interviews earlier today, although the military brass, as you probably know by now, has formally apologized, General Kimmitt and others as well. Should the president have used that occasion to formally apologize?
LIEBERMAN: Wolf, I saw clips of the appearance by the president on the Arab TV network, so I can't judge the whole statement. But it sure seemed to me that the tone of all of this was that we regret it.
It was effectively an apology. And more than that, it was a statement that this was immoral and intolerable behavior. The United States will not stand for it. These people will be punished and it won't happen again. But, you know, let's put it all in perspective again. These people are suspected of participating in a war against us that's killing Americans every day. Americans are in the line of fire. Let's get this done and not take the time of a lot of people in the military who ought to be focused on protecting our soldiers over there and helping them succeed.
And that's what I'd like to see this administration do, and Congress, too.
BLITZER: Senator Lieberman, thanks very much for joining us. We'll be watching Friday morning, when the defense secretary appears before your committee. Appreciate it very much.
LIEBERMAN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: They were out to cover the news. Instead, these pilots ended up becoming the news, amazing pictures and a harrowing tale as a news chopper spins out of control.
Plus, battling a blaze. Firefighters in Southern California race against time to keep fierce flames at bay.
And corporate control. The mouse ears lock horns with Miramax over Michael Moore's newest film. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a quick news at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): There were calls for a judicial review in London's High Court today; 14 Iraqi families say their relatives were unlawfully killed by British troops in Iraq after President Bush declared major combat ended. They want compensation from the British government, but the Defense Ministry refuses to accept responsibility.
In Athens, three bombs exploded outside a heavily guarded police station. There was extensive damage, but no one was hurt. An anonymous caller warned a newspaper about the bombs. The blasts come 100 days before the start of the Summer Olympic Games in Greece. Officials say the explosions won't affect the safety of the games.
Another phase of voting got under way in India today, with the ruling coalition trying to retain power. The Indian prime minister is up for reelection in his home district. The opposing Congress Party is headed by Italian-born Sonia Gandhi, an in-law of the family that ruled India for years.
A milestone was reached in Italian politics today. Prime minister Silvio Berlusconi has survived controversy and criminal charges to become Italy's longest serving prime minister since the end of World War II. He beat the previous record of 1,059 days. There have been 59 administrations in Italy since the republic was founded in 1946.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Federal investigators are looking into the crash of a television news helicopter in New York City. Cameras were rolling when it happened. And, as the videotape shows, it's amazing anyone survived.
Here's CNN's Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seeing it for the first time in real time, it seems evident this aircraft and everyone inside are doomed. A TV news helicopter twists, the pilot clearly struggling, slams into one Brooklyn rooftop, then contorts into another and disintegrates.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just a horrible, horrible thing to witness.
TODD: The scene unfolds as WNBC and competitor WABC send choppers over Brooklyn's Flatbush neighborhood during their 6:00 newscasts Tuesday to cover a shooting. This footage taken by the crew aboard the WABC helicopter as WNBC's chopper starts to nosedive.
PAUL SMITH, WABC HELICOPTER PILOT: You have a feeling of helplessness because we're all kind of brothers. You know, we all fly. We all fly in close proximity. We work well together, even though we compete. And you want to be able to help, but you want.
TODD: A sense of relief comes just minutes later. As if what just happened wasn't dramatic enough, a man stumbles out and calls for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, it is Andrew. Andrew is out.
TODD: He's the reporter, Andrew Torres. Remarkably, Torres, the pilot and trainee inside escape with relatively minor injuries. No one on the ground is hurt, although the two buildings of evacuated and some residents shaken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was getting ready to go out. And I heard this thing circling and circling. Eventually I heard like a crash.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard it and I said to my sister, don't let it fall on my roof.
TODD: The debris is clear. The questions are not. Investigators say they are examining the choppers tail rotor system, but they are quick with a disclaimer.
LUKE SCHIAVA, NTSB: We are not at a point right now where we're making any suggestion as to a cause. We're just trying to get as much factual information as we can. We have a lot of work -- a lot of work still to do. And we don't want to jump to any conclusions.
TODD: WNBC referred us to the aviation company it contracts with, which also employs the three crew members, for more information on their condition and experience. That company, Helinet, would only give us a prepared statement, saying they understand that their crew members are in stable condition.
WABC helicopter reporter Shannon Sohn, who filmed the crash, had more detail.
SHANNON SOHN, WABC REPORTER: It happened that Andrew Torres is someone that is very close to us.
TODD: It also happens, she says, that her husband is the pilot who usually flies that same helicopter in the morning.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Amazing that they survived, but thank God they did.
Meanwhile, cooler temperatures and calmer winds are making things a little easier today for the Southern California firefighters. A half dozen fires have burned more than 20,000 acres from Santa Barbara to San Diego counties. At least 20 homes and buildings have been destroyed and hundreds of people remain evacuated.
Disney squares off against Academy Award-winning filmmaker Michael Moore, the fight over distributing a documentary film that Moore admits bashes the president and why Disney is fighting it.
The story right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Hollywood gadfly Michael Moore is involved in a new fight, this time with the Walt Disney Company. Moore says Disney has blocked U.S. distribution of his latest documentary, "Fahrenheit 911," reportedly because it's critical of President Bush.
CNN's Jen Rogers has details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Moore has courted controversy before. And the documentary filmmaker is at it again with his new film "Fahrenheit 911," which he is putting the finishing touches on right now.
Now, this film is said to be sharply critical of President Bush. What exactly is in this film? Well, it is said that the movie investigates links between Bush and prominent Saudis, including the family of Osama bin Laden. Now, that topic appears too hot for the Walt Disney Company to touch. Michael Moore in a statement on his Web site this morning said that Disney is blocking distribution of this film through its subsidiary Miramax.
Now, Miramax says it is still reviewing its options with Disney. Michael Eisner, the chief executive officer of the Walt Disney Company, said for his part that this is an old story, that Michael Moore will find distribution somewhere, but that it will not be with Disney. Now, in the letter that was posted on Michael Moore's Web site earlier today, he said that: "The whole story behind this and other attempts to kill our movie will be told in more detail as the days and weeks go on. For nearly a year, this struggle has been a lesson in just how difficult it is in this country to create a piece of art that might upset those in charge. Well, OK, sorry, it will upset them big time. Did I mention it's a comedy?"
(on camera): Well, comedy or not, this is certainly becoming a drama here at the Walt Disney Company, a drama during this presidential election year.
Jen Rogers, CNN Financial News, Burbank, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And Disney has issued a statement among other things, saying this: "Contrary to his assertions, Mr. Moore has had and continues to have every opportunity to either find another distributor or distribute the film himself."
And this note to our viewers: Michael Moore will join Aaron Brown tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," a special interview. That is coming up 10:00 p.m. Eastern tonight, "NEWSNIGHT WITH AARON BROWN."
It's far from the Triple Crown of racing, but a big event in the U.K. nevertheless, and it's attracting big crowds. Coming up, our picture of the day, the sheep racing spectacle. We'll show you what is going on and we'll get the final results from our "Web Question of the Day" " That's coming up next as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our picture of the day, England's 13th so-called Grand National; 16 sheep carrying jockeys knitted out of wool competed over a furlong. That's about an eighth of a mile. The sheep named Big Boy won.
Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this, remembering it's not a scientific poll.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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