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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Pentagon Denies Rumsfeld's Involvement in Prison Abuse Scandal; Tests Under Way on Discovery of Sarin Gas in Baghdad
Aired May 17, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now, the Pentagon fights back after an article implicates the defense secretary himself in the prison abuse scandal.
Also, tests underway right now on the discovery of Sarin gas in Baghdad. Is it an isolated find or is there more? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
New dangers in Iraq, a suicide strike targets a top ranking official.
U.S. troops find a roadside bomb loaded with a deadly nerve agent.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agents.
BLITZER: Same-sex ceremonies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I now pronounce that you are married under the laws of Massachusetts. You may seal this marriage with a kiss.
BLITZER: Has America crossed a new threshold?
Brown versus Board. Half a century after the Supreme Court outlawed school segregation, how much has changed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the biggest hurdle has been the people in the middle class and upper class leaving the inner city.
BLITZER: Low carb versus low fat. We'll give you the low down on new research coming out this hour.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Monday, May 17, 2004.
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BLITZER: A deadly explosion and a dangerous discovery. Two new threats to the U.S. mission in Iraq. A top Iraqi official assassinated by a suicide bomber in the heart of Baghdad. We'll get details from CNN's Ben Wedeman, he's in the Iraqi capital. But we begin with another bomb in Baghdad and an improvisioned explosive that apparently started out in Saddam Hussein's arsenal as a chemical weapon. I'm joined by our national security correspondent David Ensor with details -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: If this turns out as it looks like to be Sarin gas in this canister they found, and if more of them should be found, it has implications for the safety of American troops in Iraq, and it could help the president defend his decision to go to war in that country.
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ENSOR (voice-over): The announcement of the discovery of an artillery shell believed to contain Sarin nerve gas was made by the spokesman for U.S. forces in Iraq.
KIMMITT: It was a weapon that we believed was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED.
ENSOR: An IED, an improvised explosive device made from what insurgents may have thought was a conventional artillery shell like the many that are all over Iraq. A few soldiers who helped transport the exploded shell got mild symptoms consistent with exposure to Sarin gas. They got quick treatment. They were lucky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At higher doses there would be muscle spasms, followed by convulsions and finally death by respiratory paralysis.
ENSOR: The exploded shell is in the hands of the Iraq survey group, the team led by the CIA's Charles Duelfer searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Officials say additional tests must be done to make sure it really is Sarin gas.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We have to be careful. We can't say something that's inaccurate.
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ENSOR: It is Sarin gas. That comes after the discovery of another shell with poisonous Mustard gas in it about ten days ago. The findings raised new safety concerns for the troops. If there are many more such shells found it could also deflect some of the criticism the president has endured for going to war to rid Iraq of a type of weapon that until now has not been found.
BLITZER: David, if this turns out to be Sarin gas and if it had been used the way it was designed as an artillery shell, how many people potentially could have been killed?
ENSOR: The experts say a dozen, perhaps 15 could have died from the single shell. It would have taken a lot to make it a real weapon of mass destruction but it's a pretty serious weapon.
BLITZER: It's a frightening weapon. A terrifying weapon indeed. Thanks very much, David, for that. It was bold and it was bloody. A suicide car bomber today struck at the leadership of the new Iraq just six weeks ahead of the planned hand-over of power. CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from Baghdad.
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BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A high-profile assassination. An attack that adds to the growing uncertainty over Iraq's future. Iraqi governing council rotating president Izzedine Salim was one of seven Iraqis killed in a suicide car bombing outside coalition quarters in Baghdad. An unknown group, the Arab Resistance Movement claimed responsibility for the assassination but coalition officials suspect a familiar hand behind the attack.
KIMMITT: This is the classic hallmarks of what we have seen on Zarqawi attacks. Suicidal bomb, spectacular effect, try to go after a large number of civilians and also try to go after a symbol.
WEDEMAN: Jordanian national Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been linked to a series of deadly attacks in Iraq and most recently the beheading of U.S. national Nicholas Berg. The presidency of the governing council has passed to Ghazi Aajil, a Sunni from the northern city of Mosul.
GHAZI AAJIL, PRESIDENT, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: This is a challenge and we accepted this challenge. We are more determined than yesterday to go along with the process for regaining sovereignty and rebuilding Iraq as a Democratic free Iraq.
WEDEMAN: Salim, a Shiite, was the second member of the council to be assassinated. The first was a Akila al-Hashimi who died from wounds suffered in a shooting last year. Salim's murder sparked accusations the coalition had failed to protect members of the governing council. Accusations the coalition rejects.
DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: The security considerations that we provide, that we give to the Iraqi governing council members are second to none. Their security is highly important to us. That is why we repeatedly offer them financial assistance, body armors, as I said, vehicle, weapons, repeated training programs.
WEDEMAN: The latest attack throws into doubt preparations for the June 30 hand-over of sovereignty from the coalition to an interim Iraqi government. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
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BLITZER: Just a short while ago President Bush issued a statement condemning the attack on the Iraqi council president. It says and I'm quoting now, "Mr. Salim was a man of courage who risked his life in pursuit of a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq. I offer our deepest condolences to the victims' families.
Who approved the glove's off treatment of an Iraqi detainees. A new round of stunning allegations in the Iraq prison abuse scandal is being answered by a barrage of heated denials from the Pentagon. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: No one was denying that Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter got a big scoop when he got the Taguba report detailing abuse in the Iraqi prisons but this time Pentagon officials say Hersh is, in his latest "New Yorker" article, they claim he got it wrong.
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MCINTYRE: The Pentagon strongly denies Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ever authorized a secret commando unit to extract intelligence from Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison using the same rough tactics and sexual humiliation seen in recent photographs of prisoner abuse. "This is the most hysterical piece of journalistic malpractice I have ever observed," said Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita. Rumsfeld himself insists ongoing investigations will uncover who is responsible.
RUMSFELD: You'll know soon how all this came about. And needless to say those involved will be held accountable.
MCINTYRE: In the "New Yorker Magazine," investigative reporter Seymour Hersh insists Rumsfeld set up a super secret program called Copper Green in which military commandos and CIA operatives were told, quote, "grab whom you must, do what you want." A senior intelligence official tells CNN there was no operation called Copper Green and called Hersh's report fantasy.
SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER MAGAZINE": I understand this was going to be the kind of response and I did lean over backwards to make sure in my own reporting and I met multiple sources that there was a lot of basis for this.
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MCINTYRE: In an unusual on the record denial the CIA spokesman Bill Harlow says, quote, "the "New Yorker" story is fundamentally wrong, there was no Pentagon CIA program to abuse and humiliate Iraqi prisoners. Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita, when asked more directly, did Defense Secretary Rumsfeld either authorize, order or encourage more a tougher aggressive interrogation techniques in Iraq the spokesman said little less definitively, "it's highly unlikely he did." Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. This additional note. In response to the fighting in Iraq the Bush administration now plans to redeploy 4,000 American troops currently in South Korea to Iraq. The troops involved will come from the second infantry division, part of the 30,000 American troops currently stationed in South Korea. A senior Defense Department official says the shift will be part of the next rotation of American troops in Iraq set to begin late this summer. South Korea's president signed off on the move during a phone conversation with President Bush.
For the first time in United States history, gay couples marry with the blessing of a state. In a moment, the ripple effect this move in Massachusetts is creating. Also ahead...
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the source of a good deal of bitterness, anger, frustration, kind of said that we were not quite as worthy as others.
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BLITZER: A landmark ruling 50 years later, why some say segregation in America's schools city exists.
And low carb or low fat? Which diet is more effective? The answer coming up with new scientific research being released this hour. You'll want to know what they conclude.
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BLITZER: More now on our top story. Can the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq keep the transition on track after today's bombing? The U.S. forces face new dangers after the apparent discovery of a deadly nerve agent in Iraq.
Joining us now from New York, our world affairs analyst, former Defense Secretary William Cohen. Let's get to the first issue, the suicide bombing, the killing of the acting Iraqi president of the Iraqi Governing Council. What does that mean as far as the June 30 handover, Secretary?
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: I don't think it will have any impact on it. I think they will go forward, there will be another leader that will be selected. And that's a rotating position in any event. And of course, we have to wait for the outcome of Mr. Brahimi's recommendation in terms of how that governing body should be structured.
So it may not contain any of the current members of the Governing Council, it may have an expanded membership. We don't know yet.
But everything that's coming out of the White House and Pentagon would indicate they are going forward without regard to the serious event that just took place. They have to push forward.
BLITZER: They are going forward with the June 30 handover. But it does seem to underscore, and correct me if I'm wrong, the ability of these insurgents to go after a high-profile target and kill that target. And if it's Abu Musab al Zarqawi, it's a pretty impressive hit for them.
COHEN: It's a very impressive hit. What it really demonstrates is that the Iraqi people are going to have to join in this effort on the part of the coalition forces to contain and take down those elements that are launching these suicide attacks.
Otherwise they face the future of continued conflict and chaos and ultimately a failure. So unless we have the support of the Iraqi people, and they must rally to the support of this new governing council, however it's going to be structured, then it's going to be very difficult to sustain a long-term commitment in the region.
BLITZER: What about the discovery apparently of sarin gas in this shell along a roadside in Iraq? It could be significant but then again maybe it's just a left-over from the first Gulf War they happened to find.
COHEN: That appears to be the case now. I don't have enough information to make a judgment on it. But it appears to be an old shell. We know that Saddam had used chemicals in his war against the Iranians and there may be many such shells leftover. It's one of the reasons we still have to be concerned how much lies buried, how much is in the hands of the insurgents.
And they may not know that it actually contains chemical binary nerve agents. So we'll have to wait and see, but it does only confirm what we have known for many years that Saddam had chemical weapons. He used them in the past and undoubtedly still has some. Where they are remains to be seen.
But this appears to be one case where one was shell was in fact fired or prepared to be fired as an explosive device.
BLITZER: If they do come up with more, three, four, five in the coming days that would raise serious alarm bells.
COHEN: It would raise serious concerns. Our troops would have to certainly be concerned about fighting in an environment that is chemically contaminated. They do have the equipment to contend with that.
There are also technologies which can be deployed that will make it easier to discover it. But I think it does add a new dimension. And one they will certainly have to take into account.
BLITZER: The Pentagon is really going after Sy Hersh. The CIA as well flatly denying his latest article in "The New Yorker." How concerned should the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, be right now, given this drum beat against him?
COHEN: Well, I think the secretary obviously is concerned that the facts come out, that there be no rush to judgment, that a story by a very distinguished journalist nonetheless should be put to further scrutiny.
I have not read the article. It appears to be based on one uncorroborated source. It may be accurate -- or not. But the secretary is saying let's wait until all the facts are in before we make a judgment. That' the only fair, responsible thing to do.
BLITZER: He said on CNN, Sy Hersh, earlier this morning, it wasn't just one source. He didn't say how sources. He said though it was more than two, probably less than six. But he said it was several sources who gave him this information. COHEN: If that's the case, then that information should come out during the course of congressional investigations or internal investigations. I think all the secretary was saying is let's wait until all the facts are in and not respond by prejudging it. It may turn out to be true. If that's the case it has certainly serious implications.
If it doesn't then it may be the witnesses, even though there were several, as many as six, may not have accurate information.
I think the right thing to do, the fair thing to do is wait until all the facts are in.
BLITZER: That's a good point. William Cohen, the former secretary of defense. Thanks very much for joining us as he does every Monday at this time.
COHEN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: History being made in Massachusetts. The first legal same sex marriages. Is it the result of a social revolution? Our guests coming up. They will debate this sensitive issue.
Sinking at sea. The ordeal of crew and passengers on a fishing boat.
And could death and destruction just be just around the corner? Predictions for this year's hurricane season. It's about to begin. We'll have those predictions. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: A very historic and controversial day in Massachusetts. That state becoming the first in the nation to sanction same-sex marriages. Gay and lesbian couples started taking vows at midnight and the celebrations have continued throughout the day. CNN's Maria Hinojosa is in Boston picking up the story. Maria, dramatic developments there.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the demonstrations have been going on all day, both pro and con. The one you hear behind me are people supporting gay marriage. At this point 89 same-sex couples went into Boston city hall and got their marriage certificates well on their way to saying I do, not to be pronounced husband and wife but rather partners in life.
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HINOJOSA (voice-over): They made history just by filing paperwork. Boston, Massachusetts, first legally recognized gay and lesbian couples got their marriage certificates and changed matrimony as we know it.
ROBERT COMPTON, GAY MARRIAGE PLAINTIFF: We feel good to have our family welcome to the community of Boston and the commonwealth of Massachusetts. It's nice to be accepted and recognized. HINOJOSA: Not your typical wedding day with crowds of supporters cheering same-sex couples as they entered city halls around the state.
PETER AZAR, GAY MARRIAGE ACTIVIST: Everything is going to be OK. This isn't anything radical. This isn't the end of something special but the beginning of something special (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HINOJOSA: And just steps away crowds of demonstrators.
REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: I am here today as a broken person. I fear for my country. My children. And the future of this nation. So we're here to pray, again we're not here to rail or condemn, we're here to support.
HINOJOSA: Marriage certificate in hand, David Wilson and Robert Compton together nine years and with eight children and grandchildren from previous marriages went the traditional wedding route with a chorus -- and the tears...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I commit to love you till death do us part.
HINOJOSA: And the final historic legal blessing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the power vested in me by the commonwealth of Massachusetts...
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HINOJOSA: Now, Wolf, for a lot of these people there is the issue of symbolism but some very real state rights that they get with the marriage certificates. For example, custody, inheritance, one important one being able to visit your partner in the hospital should something ever happen to them. These married gay couples will now have that but what they won't have is any of the federal benefits of marriage such as Social Security.
BLITZER: Maria Hinojosa reporting from Boston on this historic day. Thanks, Maria, very much.
The fall-out from legalized same-sex marriages in Massachusetts is widespread and uncertain with officials in other states now scrambling to figure out what the implications are for them. Tom Foreman is joining us to pick up that part of the story. Pretty complicated.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is very complicated but the simple question for so many people outside of Massachusetts is this, will this step today bring gay and lesbian marriages closer to my state? And the answer from even legal experts is decidedly, we don't know.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You may seal this marriage with a kiss.
FOREMAN: The marriages in Massachusetts are sending shockwaves across the country with people on both sides of the issue trying to figure out what this will mean elsewhere. At the U.S. Capitol opponents rallied immediately.
BISHOP PAUL MORTON, NEW ORLEANS: We believe we're faced with a challenge, God versus same-sex marriage. To be clear on the fact, we represent God. We will not compromise in that area.
FOREMAN: The latest CNN/"TIME" poll shows that Americans still strongly disapprove of same-sex marriages. 39 states specifically forbid recognition of such marriages. And while New York's attorney general says his state will honor the rights of couples married in Massachusetts, others may not.
LIZ SEATON, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Right now there's a patchwork of laws in the states and in our federal law, as well, that say these marriages won't be recognized. But it's hard to deny that a couple has been validly married in Massachusetts under the Massachusetts laws and it remains to be seen what will happen with that.
FOREMAN: The future is unclear even in Massachusetts, where a movement seeks to reverse what is happening by outlawing gay marriages through a constitutional amendment in 2006. And President Bush is backing a national amendment to define marriage as the union of a man and woman. It won't come up for serious consideration soon, but in a written statement, the president said, "the need for that amendment is still urgent. And I repeat that call today."
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FOREMAN: So what is going to happen now? Look for a lot of activity, legal in all sorts of states. People on both sides challenging what's happened in Massachusetts as it is brought to their own state. It will take time to reach that. Next place, California, the supreme court out there has to consider that spate of marriages that happened a little while back as this all got rolling. They will take it up before the end of the month. We'll probably hear something several weeks after that.
BLITZER: Tom Foreman. Solid piece. Thanks very much. We're going to have much more. Our coverage of this historic day, same-sex marriages, legal now in Massachusetts, we'll have a debate on this issue in Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage. Also fueling a contentious issue it's part of our debate, that's coming up.
Marking a milestone, as the nation celebrates the anniversary of the end of segregation and public schools, some say our schools are more divided than ever. And later, should you cut the carbs or forego the fat? Brand new information, scientific information, a new study is just out this hour on which foods will help you lose a few pounds. Stay with us.
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ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're commemorating 50 years since the landmark Brown vs. Board of Education ruling in Topeka, Kansas. We'll take you there live in just a few moments for a look at the story and then how it's playing out.
First, let's get the latest headlines.
Thousands of Palestinians fled from their homes in a refugee camp today as the Israeli army cut off the area from the rest of Gaza. The Israelis have been bulldozing Palestinian homes in the camp, saying they were being used to protect militants. Israel's supreme court has ruled that the army could continue to destroy the homes if it would save soldiers' lives.
Two F-16 fighter jets collided over rural southwestern Indiana this afternoon. One of the pilots was killed in the accident. The other parachuted to safety and is being treated right now at a hospital. Both planes were from the Indiana Air National Guard.
This year's hurricane season begins June 1 and forecasters predict an above-average season. NOAA predicts that there will be between 12 and 15 main storms this year with two to four of them classed as serious hurricanes. More than 50 million people live in the U.S. coastal areas and they potentially could be vulnerable.
More now on the historic day in Massachusetts, where same-sex couples are being allowed to marry with state blessing for the first time in American history. Is it the progress of civil rights or the decline of American morals?
Here to talk about that, two guests. Winnie Stachelberg is political director of the Human Rights Campaign. Matt Daniels is president of the Alliance For Marriage.
Matt, I'll begin with you. What is wrong with what is happening in Massachusetts today. Two people love each other. They want to be committed to each other. Why not let them get married?
MATT DANIELS, PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Well, most Americans believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. But they don't have a right to use the courts to redefine marriage for our entire society.
Most Americans want our laws to send a positive message to kids, one that reinforces what most people are teaching children. And the polls show that people in this country of every race, color and creed, believe deeply that there is something unique and special about marriage as a union of a man and a woman.
BLITZER: Even John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, opposes same-sex marriage, although he supports civil unions. The polls do show that most Americans are opposed to what is happening in Massachusetts.
WINNIE STACHELBERG, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Polls do show that, but they are changing.
I think the trends in this country show that over time the American public will become comfortable with marriage equality for same-sex couples. But let's understand what we're talking about here, Wolf. We're talking about two people in a loving, committed relationship pledging to take care of each other and their children. They want to accept the responsibilities as well as get the benefits and rights and obligations accorded to married couples.
I think that's what our nation is all about, equal protection under the law. And that's what we're seeing happen today in Massachusetts.
BLITZER: What about the argument that this goes against the grain of thousands of years of civilization?
STACHELBERG: Well, I don't know that it goes against that grain. What it does is, it's something new and it's something different. I think our country is grappling with that right now. And you see the polls reflecting the debate that's going on in the country.
But what happened in Massachusetts today for a small minority of people is historic. But for the vast number of people in this country, and in Massachusetts, nothing has changed. Their marriages haven't been undermined. Rather for a minority of people those marriages, those marriages and those relationships have been strengthened.
BLITZER: Do you want to respond to that, Matt?
DANIELS: Yes.
Again, we believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. But our laws send a message to our kids. That's why people care about this institution. And that's why we distinguish between civil unions and marriage. They see the law as a teacher. They want a message that reinforces what they are telling their own kids at home.
And today was in a sense a sad day for the democratic process. It was the courts not the people that decided this. But here's the good news. The polls are moving, but they are moving in our direction. African-Americans, Latinos, Asian-Americans, people in every political category, Democrats, Republicans, and independents, a majority now favor a federal marriage amendment to protect marriage in this country.
BLITZER: But that doesn't seem -- and I'll let Winnie respond in a second -- doesn't seem to be coming up in the House or the Senate at least any time soon. The White House says it wants that to go forward. But I don't see the political push in this current session.
DANIELS: I think you will see it, Wolf.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: In this session?
DANIELS: Yes, I think so. As a matter of fact, you will see action in the Senate. You will see the Senate majority leader make good on his pledge to support what most Americans deeply believe, the same thing for the president, same thing for the 120 co-sponsors for our amendment in the House, which is more than the federal Defense of Marriage Act, signed by President Bush.
BLITZER: Are you concerned that they could get this past, this constitutional amendment, in the House and Senate and then send it out to the states?
STACHELBERG: I think it's a sad day when Matt Daniels and his friends are promoting the divisive, discriminatory politics that would undermine the country's most sacred and cherished document, the United States Constitution, that has not been amended but 17 times in our nation's history.
I see a vote coming in the United States Senate. That's where I see it coming first. And I think those who support the amendment are on the side of discrimination, are on the of anti-families and are on the side of undermining our nation's Constitution.
BLITZER: How concerned are you, Matt, that this train is leaving the station? Same-sex marriage is taking place in Massachusetts right now. They are not going to be able apparently to pass a state constitutional amendment for a couple years there. New York state is apparently going to recognize those marriages. And there's pressure on a lot of other states to do the same thing.
DANIELS: Yes, there's no question we're reaching a level of a national crisis.
But we think the polls are clear. As people wake up, they wake up in our direction. The man who led the march in Washington for Martin Luther King, the leaders of two of the largest black denominations in the United States support our marriage amendment. These are great men and women. These people are my friends.
And I would ask anyone. Who are you to tear them down, to attack them, to accuse them of bigotry for believing what most Americans understand as common sense, that American is a man and a woman?
STACHELBERG: This isn't about racial politics. This is about equality under the law.
And people like Coretta Scott King and John Lewis, also people who were at the March on Washington years and years ago, understand that this call for a divisive constitutional amendment is about discrimination. But what our nation really ought to be about is brining people together, not the politics of division, but the politics of bringing our country together.
And at a time when we have so much at stake, when we are facing a troubling economy and a war in Iraq and terrorism threats, I think what our country ought to be focused on is not on dividing people, not on anti-gay politics, really, but on things that matter.
BLITZER: But you understand that Roman Catholics, religious Roman Catholics, other churches, Orthodox Jews, this goes against the grain of their religious traditions.
STACHELBERG: Let's be clear here. We're talking about two different things here. There's a civil marriage license and there's a religious celebration of that marriage, Wolf.
And what we're talking about is the civil marriage license, those 1,138 benefits, Social Security survivor benefits, the access to family medical leave. Those are the benefits that we're talking about that come with a civil marriage license.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And they wouldn't get that with same-sex unions?
STACHELBERG: No, you wouldn't. Look at Vermont, for example, the only state in the union that affords civil unions to couples.
And even today in Massachusetts, with marriage, it is a wonderful thing, but couples there in Vermont with civil unions and in Massachusetts today are denied federal benefits because of the law passed in 1996, the Defense of Marriage Act.
BLITZER: These are loving couples. These people, some of them, have been together for years and years and years. They only want what all of us have an opportunity to do, namely to get married.
DANIELS: Gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. They have a right to pursue benefits, like everyone else. But this is fundamentally not about benefits. And it never will be. It's about marriage.
BLITZER: But the Massachusetts Supreme Court in that 4-3 decision said this was discriminatory against citizens of the United States.
DANIELS: Right.
And the courts at one time declared that African-Americans were property and the American people had to amend our Constitution to undo the erroneous decision of a court. The courts aren't always right. In this case, African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, people of every racial group support our marriage amendment in large numbers, because it's an institution that unifies our mosaic.
The beautiful mosaic of this society is unified by institutions like marriage which transcend racial, cultural and religious lines.
BLITZER: We're going to have to leave it right there.
Matt Daniels, thanks very much for joining us.
And, Winnie, thanks to you as well. STACHELBERG: Thank you.
BLITZER: The low carb craze vs. the low-fat fad. Which has proven more results? And which is better for you? There's new scientific information out this hour about how all of us can lose a few extra pounds.
Plus, this;
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SHERYLL CASHIN, AUTHOR: The average existence for a black and Latino child in public school today is one where the majority of their peers are minority and at least half and often a lot more of their peers are poor.
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BLITZER: School segregation, a look back at the nation, our nation, before Brown vs. Board of Education. Do we still face some of the same problems today?
And later, pomp and circumstance. Look at this. I offer a little advice, guidance, if you will, not very serious guidance, to college students. I'll get to that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
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BLITZER: (voice-over): Four small bombs exploded in Turkey's capital, Ankara, just a few hours before the arrival of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The bombs went off in front of British-run banks. There were no injuries and no one claimed responsibility.
India's new leader. A key political leader says Italian-born Sonia Gandhi will be sworn in as prime minister Wednesday. Gandhi is set to meet with India's president tomorrow to discuss forming a new government.
One hot movie. Controversial filmmaker Michael Moore received cheers and applause for "Fahrenheit 911" at the Cannes Film Festival. Moore's movie is a fierce indictment of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the war on terrorism. Moore is looking for an American distributor after Walt Disney barred its Miramax film unit from releasing the movie. And that's our look around the world.
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BLITZER: On this day 50 years ago, the United States Supreme Court dramatically altered the social fabric of the country by overturning segregated education. At the center of the historic Brown vs. Education ruling with Monroe Elementary School in Topeka, Kansas. Today, thousands gathered at the former school to celebrate its transformation into a monument to the court's decision.
CNN's Aaron Brown is in Topeka. He's joining us now live.
This was all very, very dramatic stuff, Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a wonderful day.
It was a warm day in every respect. It was warm out there. And I think the mood of the day was warm. We're in the auditorium at Monroe. Monroe would have been the school where Linda Brown would have gone had her parents not decided that segregated education in the country was wrong. Linda Brown is the Brown in Brown vs. the Board of Education.
When that decision came down 50 years ago, things didn't change instantly, but it was the beginning of the end of segregation in the South and in the country, not just in schools, but in public accommodations, hotels, buses and the rest. It would take a while to get there, but Brown began it 50 years ago.
Today was the kind of day that attracted important symbolic moments, and it's why both Senator Kerry and President Bush showed up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: While our schools are no longer segregated by law, they are still not equal in opportunity and excellence. Justice requires more than a place in a school. Justice requires that every school teach every child in America.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not a political statement. It's a matter of common sense and it is a matter of truth to say to America, you cannot promise No Child Left Behind, and then pursue policies that leave millions of children behind every single day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: By and large, it was not a political day. It was a day to celebrate a moment in history.
Tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," a special edition. We'll devote virtually the entire program to the events of 50 years ago and what has happened since. We'll put you back in time to give you a look at what America was like back in 1954. We'll profile the people who made this ruling happen.
Thurgood Marshall, who ran the NAACP Legal Defense Fund for three decades and later went on to the U.S. Supreme Court, argued the case. That and much more on a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT," 10:00 Eastern time tonight.
Wolf, we hope you will join us.
BLITZER: I will be watching. I am sure all of our viewers will want to watch as well, Aaron Brown, 10:00 p.m. "NEWSNIGHT" tonight, must-watch TV, an important "NEWSNIGHT" tonight.
Despite the Brown ruling, experts say many African-American and other minority students today still are getting shortchanged in their education. One of the major reasons, money.
CNN's Brian Todd reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rod Paige remembers it all too well, the all-white school two miles down the road from his in Monticello, Mississippi, the school that had everything his didn't. Two miles away, he says, that might as well have been 200.
ROD PAIGE, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: It was a source of a good deal of bitterness, anger, frustration. It kind of said that we were not quite as worthy as others.
TODD: This was the South in the first half the 20th century., laws separating whites from people of color virtually everywhere.
Vernon Jordan, a prominent Washington attorney, remembers it, too. Growing up in Atlanta in the '30s and '40s, he once had a summer job driving a white banker around town, a man who was astonished to learn that Jordan could read, just part of a mind-set.
VERNON JORDAN, ATTORNEY: Black people, because of their blackness, having to deal here with inferior and separate facilities.
TODD: Jordan and Rod Paige thought that world would come crashing down on May 17, 1954, the case, Brown vs. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. In just 13 paragraphs, the highest court in the land called segregation in public schools unconstitutional.
Rod Paige, then a 20-year-old junior at the all-black Jackson State University in Mississippi, stayed up all night talking to his friends about how the world was going to change for the better the next day. Now, in his own words, how naive.
PAIGE: Then the months that followed and the years that followed told us that that was not the case. There was still much work to be done.
TODD: Paige went on to become a teacher, an administrator and now U.S. education secretary, a position he says he never would have dreamed of before Brown.
(on camera): Rod Paige, Vernon Jordan and other African-American leaders agree, Brown was a success in its core purpose. It created the crucial opening. The legal barriers to equal education were gone. But 50 years later, other barriers remain, barriers based on income. SHERYLL CASHIN, AUTHOR: The average existence for a black and Latino child in public school today is one where the majority of their peers are minority and at least half and often a lot more of their peers are poor. And for white children, the average experience is exactly the opposite.
TODD: Sheryll Cashin, author of the new book "The Failures of Integration," is one of those who point directly to economic disparities in her argument that public schools are still segregated. Another is Tony Sawyer, superintendent of schools in the birthplace of this whole movement, Topeka, Kansas.
TONY SAWYER TOPEKA SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: There's segregation regarding funding because we all are very knowledgeable of the fact that the tax base is very different in any inner city than it is in the suburb.
TODD: A lower tax base, less funding for the local school, lower salaries for less qualified teachers, observers say this spirals into lower test scores, poorer students, with reading and other skill levels far below their wealthier counterparts.
JAMES MCCLINTON, MAYOR OF TOPEKA, KANSAS: I think the biggest hurdle have been the people, the middle class and upper class, leaving the inner city, because they take resources out which leaves us with limited resources to maintain our infrastructure in cities.
TODD: The Bush administration's idea is to test public schools, rate them, allow students the chance to transfer to a better school if theirs doesn't meet certain standards.
But Rod Paige agrees, schools in lower-income districts must be fixed first. The achievement gap won't narrow until the economic gap does. Perhaps then the vision of Brown vs. Board will be fulfilled.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: Should courts intervene to ensure diversity in public schools? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf.
They are all the rage, those low carb diets. Just hype or do they really work? There are new results in a scientific study coming out right now. We'll share it with you when we come back.
Also, an omelet for kings or those with money to burn? We'll tell you why.
First, though, some stories you may have missed this past weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): These bundled-up people were plucked from the frigid water off San Francisco. They were forced into the ocean when their boat began sinking apparently because of a faulty water pump. An elderly passenger died.
In Los Angeles, a fossil auction runs out of fuel in just two minutes. A partial T-Rex skeleton went for 80 grand. That's $400,000 less than the bones were expected to fetch. They are part of a dinosaur discovered more than 100 years ago in Wyoming.
Commencement ceremonies abound this weekend across America. Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers was among those passing along words of wisdom at various campuses. He spoke at Virginia Military Institute. This reporter lucky enough to be the commencement speaker at Saint Louis University, a truly impressive institution of higher learning.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: New information just released on those low carb diets. Do they really work or do they not work?
Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
You have got the results of this new study, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we certainly do. It's just coming out in this hour.
Researchers said, hey, these diets, they are all the rage, but do they really work? And so they put it to the scientific test.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN (voice-over): The food, the book, the vitamins and the big question, do low carb diets really work better than any other type of diet? A new study says in the long run no. The study found that initially people did lose quite a bit of weight on low carb diets.
But a year after starting the diet, they gained much of that weight back, making the low carb diet no more effective than the traditional low fat diet.
Dr. Walter Willett, who wrote an editorial accompanying the new reports, says, over time, people stayed low carb, but simply ate too much.
DR. WALTER WILLETT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: We can eat too much of any food even if it's a very good food.
COHEN: So his advise to dieters, pay attention to amounts, even if the diet book says eat as much as you want, exercise regularly. Dieting alone often won't work.
And eat good carbs like whole grain breads and good fats like nuts and fish. And finally, Doctor Willett says everyone is different. Even in this study, some people did better than others on the prescribed diet.
WILLETT: There were some people that lost a large amount of weight, 30 pounds or more and they managed to keep it off. But others lost virtually nothing.
COHEN: By trying a variety of diets, low carb and low fat, you can find the diet that works best for you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COHEN: Now, Wolf, in the same medical journal, there was another study that showed that low-carb diets were superior, but this study only lasted six months. And, as we just saw, when they follow these people for a year in total they find that many of these people gain that weight back -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, very interesting.
Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.
Some come with cheese, others with ham, but how could an omelet ever go for a grand? That story and the results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Blueberry pancake, $16. Crunchy French toast, $14. The Zillion Dollar Frittata at New York's Parker Meridien Hotel, priceless, or very pricey, anyway. It costs -- get this -- $1,000 and it's a mixture of six eggs, one whole lobster and 10 ounces of caviar. It's been on the menu for almost two weeks. But the hotel says no one ordered one until today.
Here's how you're weighing on our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this. Remember, it's not a scientific poll. Where is it? Maybe tomorrow.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 17, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now, the Pentagon fights back after an article implicates the defense secretary himself in the prison abuse scandal.
Also, tests underway right now on the discovery of Sarin gas in Baghdad. Is it an isolated find or is there more? Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
New dangers in Iraq, a suicide strike targets a top ranking official.
U.S. troops find a roadside bomb loaded with a deadly nerve agent.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: A detonation occurred before the IED could be rendered inoperable. This produced a very small dispersal of agents.
BLITZER: Same-sex ceremonies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I now pronounce that you are married under the laws of Massachusetts. You may seal this marriage with a kiss.
BLITZER: Has America crossed a new threshold?
Brown versus Board. Half a century after the Supreme Court outlawed school segregation, how much has changed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the biggest hurdle has been the people in the middle class and upper class leaving the inner city.
BLITZER: Low carb versus low fat. We'll give you the low down on new research coming out this hour.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Monday, May 17, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: A deadly explosion and a dangerous discovery. Two new threats to the U.S. mission in Iraq. A top Iraqi official assassinated by a suicide bomber in the heart of Baghdad. We'll get details from CNN's Ben Wedeman, he's in the Iraqi capital. But we begin with another bomb in Baghdad and an improvisioned explosive that apparently started out in Saddam Hussein's arsenal as a chemical weapon. I'm joined by our national security correspondent David Ensor with details -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: If this turns out as it looks like to be Sarin gas in this canister they found, and if more of them should be found, it has implications for the safety of American troops in Iraq, and it could help the president defend his decision to go to war in that country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): The announcement of the discovery of an artillery shell believed to contain Sarin nerve gas was made by the spokesman for U.S. forces in Iraq.
KIMMITT: It was a weapon that we believed was stocked from the ex-regime time and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED.
ENSOR: An IED, an improvised explosive device made from what insurgents may have thought was a conventional artillery shell like the many that are all over Iraq. A few soldiers who helped transport the exploded shell got mild symptoms consistent with exposure to Sarin gas. They got quick treatment. They were lucky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At higher doses there would be muscle spasms, followed by convulsions and finally death by respiratory paralysis.
ENSOR: The exploded shell is in the hands of the Iraq survey group, the team led by the CIA's Charles Duelfer searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Officials say additional tests must be done to make sure it really is Sarin gas.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We have to be careful. We can't say something that's inaccurate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: It is Sarin gas. That comes after the discovery of another shell with poisonous Mustard gas in it about ten days ago. The findings raised new safety concerns for the troops. If there are many more such shells found it could also deflect some of the criticism the president has endured for going to war to rid Iraq of a type of weapon that until now has not been found.
BLITZER: David, if this turns out to be Sarin gas and if it had been used the way it was designed as an artillery shell, how many people potentially could have been killed?
ENSOR: The experts say a dozen, perhaps 15 could have died from the single shell. It would have taken a lot to make it a real weapon of mass destruction but it's a pretty serious weapon.
BLITZER: It's a frightening weapon. A terrifying weapon indeed. Thanks very much, David, for that. It was bold and it was bloody. A suicide car bomber today struck at the leadership of the new Iraq just six weeks ahead of the planned hand-over of power. CNN's Ben Wedeman reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A high-profile assassination. An attack that adds to the growing uncertainty over Iraq's future. Iraqi governing council rotating president Izzedine Salim was one of seven Iraqis killed in a suicide car bombing outside coalition quarters in Baghdad. An unknown group, the Arab Resistance Movement claimed responsibility for the assassination but coalition officials suspect a familiar hand behind the attack.
KIMMITT: This is the classic hallmarks of what we have seen on Zarqawi attacks. Suicidal bomb, spectacular effect, try to go after a large number of civilians and also try to go after a symbol.
WEDEMAN: Jordanian national Abu Musab al-Zarqawi has been linked to a series of deadly attacks in Iraq and most recently the beheading of U.S. national Nicholas Berg. The presidency of the governing council has passed to Ghazi Aajil, a Sunni from the northern city of Mosul.
GHAZI AAJIL, PRESIDENT, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: This is a challenge and we accepted this challenge. We are more determined than yesterday to go along with the process for regaining sovereignty and rebuilding Iraq as a Democratic free Iraq.
WEDEMAN: Salim, a Shiite, was the second member of the council to be assassinated. The first was a Akila al-Hashimi who died from wounds suffered in a shooting last year. Salim's murder sparked accusations the coalition had failed to protect members of the governing council. Accusations the coalition rejects.
DAN SENOR, COALITION SPOKESMAN: The security considerations that we provide, that we give to the Iraqi governing council members are second to none. Their security is highly important to us. That is why we repeatedly offer them financial assistance, body armors, as I said, vehicle, weapons, repeated training programs.
WEDEMAN: The latest attack throws into doubt preparations for the June 30 hand-over of sovereignty from the coalition to an interim Iraqi government. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Just a short while ago President Bush issued a statement condemning the attack on the Iraqi council president. It says and I'm quoting now, "Mr. Salim was a man of courage who risked his life in pursuit of a free, democratic and prosperous Iraq. I offer our deepest condolences to the victims' families.
Who approved the glove's off treatment of an Iraqi detainees. A new round of stunning allegations in the Iraq prison abuse scandal is being answered by a barrage of heated denials from the Pentagon. Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: No one was denying that Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter got a big scoop when he got the Taguba report detailing abuse in the Iraqi prisons but this time Pentagon officials say Hersh is, in his latest "New Yorker" article, they claim he got it wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon strongly denies Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld ever authorized a secret commando unit to extract intelligence from Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib prison using the same rough tactics and sexual humiliation seen in recent photographs of prisoner abuse. "This is the most hysterical piece of journalistic malpractice I have ever observed," said Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita. Rumsfeld himself insists ongoing investigations will uncover who is responsible.
RUMSFELD: You'll know soon how all this came about. And needless to say those involved will be held accountable.
MCINTYRE: In the "New Yorker Magazine," investigative reporter Seymour Hersh insists Rumsfeld set up a super secret program called Copper Green in which military commandos and CIA operatives were told, quote, "grab whom you must, do what you want." A senior intelligence official tells CNN there was no operation called Copper Green and called Hersh's report fantasy.
SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER MAGAZINE": I understand this was going to be the kind of response and I did lean over backwards to make sure in my own reporting and I met multiple sources that there was a lot of basis for this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In an unusual on the record denial the CIA spokesman Bill Harlow says, quote, "the "New Yorker" story is fundamentally wrong, there was no Pentagon CIA program to abuse and humiliate Iraqi prisoners. Pentagon spokesman Larry Di Rita, when asked more directly, did Defense Secretary Rumsfeld either authorize, order or encourage more a tougher aggressive interrogation techniques in Iraq the spokesman said little less definitively, "it's highly unlikely he did." Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. This additional note. In response to the fighting in Iraq the Bush administration now plans to redeploy 4,000 American troops currently in South Korea to Iraq. The troops involved will come from the second infantry division, part of the 30,000 American troops currently stationed in South Korea. A senior Defense Department official says the shift will be part of the next rotation of American troops in Iraq set to begin late this summer. South Korea's president signed off on the move during a phone conversation with President Bush.
For the first time in United States history, gay couples marry with the blessing of a state. In a moment, the ripple effect this move in Massachusetts is creating. Also ahead...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was the source of a good deal of bitterness, anger, frustration, kind of said that we were not quite as worthy as others.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A landmark ruling 50 years later, why some say segregation in America's schools city exists.
And low carb or low fat? Which diet is more effective? The answer coming up with new scientific research being released this hour. You'll want to know what they conclude.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: More now on our top story. Can the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq keep the transition on track after today's bombing? The U.S. forces face new dangers after the apparent discovery of a deadly nerve agent in Iraq.
Joining us now from New York, our world affairs analyst, former Defense Secretary William Cohen. Let's get to the first issue, the suicide bombing, the killing of the acting Iraqi president of the Iraqi Governing Council. What does that mean as far as the June 30 handover, Secretary?
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: I don't think it will have any impact on it. I think they will go forward, there will be another leader that will be selected. And that's a rotating position in any event. And of course, we have to wait for the outcome of Mr. Brahimi's recommendation in terms of how that governing body should be structured.
So it may not contain any of the current members of the Governing Council, it may have an expanded membership. We don't know yet.
But everything that's coming out of the White House and Pentagon would indicate they are going forward without regard to the serious event that just took place. They have to push forward.
BLITZER: They are going forward with the June 30 handover. But it does seem to underscore, and correct me if I'm wrong, the ability of these insurgents to go after a high-profile target and kill that target. And if it's Abu Musab al Zarqawi, it's a pretty impressive hit for them.
COHEN: It's a very impressive hit. What it really demonstrates is that the Iraqi people are going to have to join in this effort on the part of the coalition forces to contain and take down those elements that are launching these suicide attacks.
Otherwise they face the future of continued conflict and chaos and ultimately a failure. So unless we have the support of the Iraqi people, and they must rally to the support of this new governing council, however it's going to be structured, then it's going to be very difficult to sustain a long-term commitment in the region.
BLITZER: What about the discovery apparently of sarin gas in this shell along a roadside in Iraq? It could be significant but then again maybe it's just a left-over from the first Gulf War they happened to find.
COHEN: That appears to be the case now. I don't have enough information to make a judgment on it. But it appears to be an old shell. We know that Saddam had used chemicals in his war against the Iranians and there may be many such shells leftover. It's one of the reasons we still have to be concerned how much lies buried, how much is in the hands of the insurgents.
And they may not know that it actually contains chemical binary nerve agents. So we'll have to wait and see, but it does only confirm what we have known for many years that Saddam had chemical weapons. He used them in the past and undoubtedly still has some. Where they are remains to be seen.
But this appears to be one case where one was shell was in fact fired or prepared to be fired as an explosive device.
BLITZER: If they do come up with more, three, four, five in the coming days that would raise serious alarm bells.
COHEN: It would raise serious concerns. Our troops would have to certainly be concerned about fighting in an environment that is chemically contaminated. They do have the equipment to contend with that.
There are also technologies which can be deployed that will make it easier to discover it. But I think it does add a new dimension. And one they will certainly have to take into account.
BLITZER: The Pentagon is really going after Sy Hersh. The CIA as well flatly denying his latest article in "The New Yorker." How concerned should the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, be right now, given this drum beat against him?
COHEN: Well, I think the secretary obviously is concerned that the facts come out, that there be no rush to judgment, that a story by a very distinguished journalist nonetheless should be put to further scrutiny.
I have not read the article. It appears to be based on one uncorroborated source. It may be accurate -- or not. But the secretary is saying let's wait until all the facts are in before we make a judgment. That' the only fair, responsible thing to do.
BLITZER: He said on CNN, Sy Hersh, earlier this morning, it wasn't just one source. He didn't say how sources. He said though it was more than two, probably less than six. But he said it was several sources who gave him this information. COHEN: If that's the case, then that information should come out during the course of congressional investigations or internal investigations. I think all the secretary was saying is let's wait until all the facts are in and not respond by prejudging it. It may turn out to be true. If that's the case it has certainly serious implications.
If it doesn't then it may be the witnesses, even though there were several, as many as six, may not have accurate information.
I think the right thing to do, the fair thing to do is wait until all the facts are in.
BLITZER: That's a good point. William Cohen, the former secretary of defense. Thanks very much for joining us as he does every Monday at this time.
COHEN: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: History being made in Massachusetts. The first legal same sex marriages. Is it the result of a social revolution? Our guests coming up. They will debate this sensitive issue.
Sinking at sea. The ordeal of crew and passengers on a fishing boat.
And could death and destruction just be just around the corner? Predictions for this year's hurricane season. It's about to begin. We'll have those predictions. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: A very historic and controversial day in Massachusetts. That state becoming the first in the nation to sanction same-sex marriages. Gay and lesbian couples started taking vows at midnight and the celebrations have continued throughout the day. CNN's Maria Hinojosa is in Boston picking up the story. Maria, dramatic developments there.
MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the demonstrations have been going on all day, both pro and con. The one you hear behind me are people supporting gay marriage. At this point 89 same-sex couples went into Boston city hall and got their marriage certificates well on their way to saying I do, not to be pronounced husband and wife but rather partners in life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HINOJOSA (voice-over): They made history just by filing paperwork. Boston, Massachusetts, first legally recognized gay and lesbian couples got their marriage certificates and changed matrimony as we know it.
ROBERT COMPTON, GAY MARRIAGE PLAINTIFF: We feel good to have our family welcome to the community of Boston and the commonwealth of Massachusetts. It's nice to be accepted and recognized. HINOJOSA: Not your typical wedding day with crowds of supporters cheering same-sex couples as they entered city halls around the state.
PETER AZAR, GAY MARRIAGE ACTIVIST: Everything is going to be OK. This isn't anything radical. This isn't the end of something special but the beginning of something special (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HINOJOSA: And just steps away crowds of demonstrators.
REV. PATRICK MAHONEY, CHRISTIAN DEFENSE COALITION: I am here today as a broken person. I fear for my country. My children. And the future of this nation. So we're here to pray, again we're not here to rail or condemn, we're here to support.
HINOJOSA: Marriage certificate in hand, David Wilson and Robert Compton together nine years and with eight children and grandchildren from previous marriages went the traditional wedding route with a chorus -- and the tears...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I commit to love you till death do us part.
HINOJOSA: And the final historic legal blessing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By the power vested in me by the commonwealth of Massachusetts...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HINOJOSA: Now, Wolf, for a lot of these people there is the issue of symbolism but some very real state rights that they get with the marriage certificates. For example, custody, inheritance, one important one being able to visit your partner in the hospital should something ever happen to them. These married gay couples will now have that but what they won't have is any of the federal benefits of marriage such as Social Security.
BLITZER: Maria Hinojosa reporting from Boston on this historic day. Thanks, Maria, very much.
The fall-out from legalized same-sex marriages in Massachusetts is widespread and uncertain with officials in other states now scrambling to figure out what the implications are for them. Tom Foreman is joining us to pick up that part of the story. Pretty complicated.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is very complicated but the simple question for so many people outside of Massachusetts is this, will this step today bring gay and lesbian marriages closer to my state? And the answer from even legal experts is decidedly, we don't know.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You may seal this marriage with a kiss.
FOREMAN: The marriages in Massachusetts are sending shockwaves across the country with people on both sides of the issue trying to figure out what this will mean elsewhere. At the U.S. Capitol opponents rallied immediately.
BISHOP PAUL MORTON, NEW ORLEANS: We believe we're faced with a challenge, God versus same-sex marriage. To be clear on the fact, we represent God. We will not compromise in that area.
FOREMAN: The latest CNN/"TIME" poll shows that Americans still strongly disapprove of same-sex marriages. 39 states specifically forbid recognition of such marriages. And while New York's attorney general says his state will honor the rights of couples married in Massachusetts, others may not.
LIZ SEATON, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Right now there's a patchwork of laws in the states and in our federal law, as well, that say these marriages won't be recognized. But it's hard to deny that a couple has been validly married in Massachusetts under the Massachusetts laws and it remains to be seen what will happen with that.
FOREMAN: The future is unclear even in Massachusetts, where a movement seeks to reverse what is happening by outlawing gay marriages through a constitutional amendment in 2006. And President Bush is backing a national amendment to define marriage as the union of a man and woman. It won't come up for serious consideration soon, but in a written statement, the president said, "the need for that amendment is still urgent. And I repeat that call today."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: So what is going to happen now? Look for a lot of activity, legal in all sorts of states. People on both sides challenging what's happened in Massachusetts as it is brought to their own state. It will take time to reach that. Next place, California, the supreme court out there has to consider that spate of marriages that happened a little while back as this all got rolling. They will take it up before the end of the month. We'll probably hear something several weeks after that.
BLITZER: Tom Foreman. Solid piece. Thanks very much. We're going to have much more. Our coverage of this historic day, same-sex marriages, legal now in Massachusetts, we'll have a debate on this issue in Massachusetts legalizing gay marriage. Also fueling a contentious issue it's part of our debate, that's coming up.
Marking a milestone, as the nation celebrates the anniversary of the end of segregation and public schools, some say our schools are more divided than ever. And later, should you cut the carbs or forego the fat? Brand new information, scientific information, a new study is just out this hour on which foods will help you lose a few pounds. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: From our studios in Washington, once again, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: Welcome back.
We're commemorating 50 years since the landmark Brown vs. Board of Education ruling in Topeka, Kansas. We'll take you there live in just a few moments for a look at the story and then how it's playing out.
First, let's get the latest headlines.
Thousands of Palestinians fled from their homes in a refugee camp today as the Israeli army cut off the area from the rest of Gaza. The Israelis have been bulldozing Palestinian homes in the camp, saying they were being used to protect militants. Israel's supreme court has ruled that the army could continue to destroy the homes if it would save soldiers' lives.
Two F-16 fighter jets collided over rural southwestern Indiana this afternoon. One of the pilots was killed in the accident. The other parachuted to safety and is being treated right now at a hospital. Both planes were from the Indiana Air National Guard.
This year's hurricane season begins June 1 and forecasters predict an above-average season. NOAA predicts that there will be between 12 and 15 main storms this year with two to four of them classed as serious hurricanes. More than 50 million people live in the U.S. coastal areas and they potentially could be vulnerable.
More now on the historic day in Massachusetts, where same-sex couples are being allowed to marry with state blessing for the first time in American history. Is it the progress of civil rights or the decline of American morals?
Here to talk about that, two guests. Winnie Stachelberg is political director of the Human Rights Campaign. Matt Daniels is president of the Alliance For Marriage.
Matt, I'll begin with you. What is wrong with what is happening in Massachusetts today. Two people love each other. They want to be committed to each other. Why not let them get married?
MATT DANIELS, PRESIDENT, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Well, most Americans believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. But they don't have a right to use the courts to redefine marriage for our entire society.
Most Americans want our laws to send a positive message to kids, one that reinforces what most people are teaching children. And the polls show that people in this country of every race, color and creed, believe deeply that there is something unique and special about marriage as a union of a man and a woman.
BLITZER: Even John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate, opposes same-sex marriage, although he supports civil unions. The polls do show that most Americans are opposed to what is happening in Massachusetts.
WINNIE STACHELBERG, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Polls do show that, but they are changing.
I think the trends in this country show that over time the American public will become comfortable with marriage equality for same-sex couples. But let's understand what we're talking about here, Wolf. We're talking about two people in a loving, committed relationship pledging to take care of each other and their children. They want to accept the responsibilities as well as get the benefits and rights and obligations accorded to married couples.
I think that's what our nation is all about, equal protection under the law. And that's what we're seeing happen today in Massachusetts.
BLITZER: What about the argument that this goes against the grain of thousands of years of civilization?
STACHELBERG: Well, I don't know that it goes against that grain. What it does is, it's something new and it's something different. I think our country is grappling with that right now. And you see the polls reflecting the debate that's going on in the country.
But what happened in Massachusetts today for a small minority of people is historic. But for the vast number of people in this country, and in Massachusetts, nothing has changed. Their marriages haven't been undermined. Rather for a minority of people those marriages, those marriages and those relationships have been strengthened.
BLITZER: Do you want to respond to that, Matt?
DANIELS: Yes.
Again, we believe that gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. But our laws send a message to our kids. That's why people care about this institution. And that's why we distinguish between civil unions and marriage. They see the law as a teacher. They want a message that reinforces what they are telling their own kids at home.
And today was in a sense a sad day for the democratic process. It was the courts not the people that decided this. But here's the good news. The polls are moving, but they are moving in our direction. African-Americans, Latinos, Asian-Americans, people in every political category, Democrats, Republicans, and independents, a majority now favor a federal marriage amendment to protect marriage in this country.
BLITZER: But that doesn't seem -- and I'll let Winnie respond in a second -- doesn't seem to be coming up in the House or the Senate at least any time soon. The White House says it wants that to go forward. But I don't see the political push in this current session.
DANIELS: I think you will see it, Wolf.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: In this session?
DANIELS: Yes, I think so. As a matter of fact, you will see action in the Senate. You will see the Senate majority leader make good on his pledge to support what most Americans deeply believe, the same thing for the president, same thing for the 120 co-sponsors for our amendment in the House, which is more than the federal Defense of Marriage Act, signed by President Bush.
BLITZER: Are you concerned that they could get this past, this constitutional amendment, in the House and Senate and then send it out to the states?
STACHELBERG: I think it's a sad day when Matt Daniels and his friends are promoting the divisive, discriminatory politics that would undermine the country's most sacred and cherished document, the United States Constitution, that has not been amended but 17 times in our nation's history.
I see a vote coming in the United States Senate. That's where I see it coming first. And I think those who support the amendment are on the side of discrimination, are on the of anti-families and are on the side of undermining our nation's Constitution.
BLITZER: How concerned are you, Matt, that this train is leaving the station? Same-sex marriage is taking place in Massachusetts right now. They are not going to be able apparently to pass a state constitutional amendment for a couple years there. New York state is apparently going to recognize those marriages. And there's pressure on a lot of other states to do the same thing.
DANIELS: Yes, there's no question we're reaching a level of a national crisis.
But we think the polls are clear. As people wake up, they wake up in our direction. The man who led the march in Washington for Martin Luther King, the leaders of two of the largest black denominations in the United States support our marriage amendment. These are great men and women. These people are my friends.
And I would ask anyone. Who are you to tear them down, to attack them, to accuse them of bigotry for believing what most Americans understand as common sense, that American is a man and a woman?
STACHELBERG: This isn't about racial politics. This is about equality under the law.
And people like Coretta Scott King and John Lewis, also people who were at the March on Washington years and years ago, understand that this call for a divisive constitutional amendment is about discrimination. But what our nation really ought to be about is brining people together, not the politics of division, but the politics of bringing our country together.
And at a time when we have so much at stake, when we are facing a troubling economy and a war in Iraq and terrorism threats, I think what our country ought to be focused on is not on dividing people, not on anti-gay politics, really, but on things that matter.
BLITZER: But you understand that Roman Catholics, religious Roman Catholics, other churches, Orthodox Jews, this goes against the grain of their religious traditions.
STACHELBERG: Let's be clear here. We're talking about two different things here. There's a civil marriage license and there's a religious celebration of that marriage, Wolf.
And what we're talking about is the civil marriage license, those 1,138 benefits, Social Security survivor benefits, the access to family medical leave. Those are the benefits that we're talking about that come with a civil marriage license.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: And they wouldn't get that with same-sex unions?
STACHELBERG: No, you wouldn't. Look at Vermont, for example, the only state in the union that affords civil unions to couples.
And even today in Massachusetts, with marriage, it is a wonderful thing, but couples there in Vermont with civil unions and in Massachusetts today are denied federal benefits because of the law passed in 1996, the Defense of Marriage Act.
BLITZER: These are loving couples. These people, some of them, have been together for years and years and years. They only want what all of us have an opportunity to do, namely to get married.
DANIELS: Gays and lesbians have a right to live as they choose. They have a right to pursue benefits, like everyone else. But this is fundamentally not about benefits. And it never will be. It's about marriage.
BLITZER: But the Massachusetts Supreme Court in that 4-3 decision said this was discriminatory against citizens of the United States.
DANIELS: Right.
And the courts at one time declared that African-Americans were property and the American people had to amend our Constitution to undo the erroneous decision of a court. The courts aren't always right. In this case, African-Americans, Latinos, Asians, people of every racial group support our marriage amendment in large numbers, because it's an institution that unifies our mosaic.
The beautiful mosaic of this society is unified by institutions like marriage which transcend racial, cultural and religious lines.
BLITZER: We're going to have to leave it right there.
Matt Daniels, thanks very much for joining us.
And, Winnie, thanks to you as well. STACHELBERG: Thank you.
BLITZER: The low carb craze vs. the low-fat fad. Which has proven more results? And which is better for you? There's new scientific information out this hour about how all of us can lose a few extra pounds.
Plus, this;
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SHERYLL CASHIN, AUTHOR: The average existence for a black and Latino child in public school today is one where the majority of their peers are minority and at least half and often a lot more of their peers are poor.
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BLITZER: School segregation, a look back at the nation, our nation, before Brown vs. Board of Education. Do we still face some of the same problems today?
And later, pomp and circumstance. Look at this. I offer a little advice, guidance, if you will, not very serious guidance, to college students. I'll get to that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
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BLITZER: (voice-over): Four small bombs exploded in Turkey's capital, Ankara, just a few hours before the arrival of British Prime Minister Tony Blair. The bombs went off in front of British-run banks. There were no injuries and no one claimed responsibility.
India's new leader. A key political leader says Italian-born Sonia Gandhi will be sworn in as prime minister Wednesday. Gandhi is set to meet with India's president tomorrow to discuss forming a new government.
One hot movie. Controversial filmmaker Michael Moore received cheers and applause for "Fahrenheit 911" at the Cannes Film Festival. Moore's movie is a fierce indictment of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq and the war on terrorism. Moore is looking for an American distributor after Walt Disney barred its Miramax film unit from releasing the movie. And that's our look around the world.
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BLITZER: On this day 50 years ago, the United States Supreme Court dramatically altered the social fabric of the country by overturning segregated education. At the center of the historic Brown vs. Education ruling with Monroe Elementary School in Topeka, Kansas. Today, thousands gathered at the former school to celebrate its transformation into a monument to the court's decision.
CNN's Aaron Brown is in Topeka. He's joining us now live.
This was all very, very dramatic stuff, Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a wonderful day.
It was a warm day in every respect. It was warm out there. And I think the mood of the day was warm. We're in the auditorium at Monroe. Monroe would have been the school where Linda Brown would have gone had her parents not decided that segregated education in the country was wrong. Linda Brown is the Brown in Brown vs. the Board of Education.
When that decision came down 50 years ago, things didn't change instantly, but it was the beginning of the end of segregation in the South and in the country, not just in schools, but in public accommodations, hotels, buses and the rest. It would take a while to get there, but Brown began it 50 years ago.
Today was the kind of day that attracted important symbolic moments, and it's why both Senator Kerry and President Bush showed up.
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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: While our schools are no longer segregated by law, they are still not equal in opportunity and excellence. Justice requires more than a place in a school. Justice requires that every school teach every child in America.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is not a political statement. It's a matter of common sense and it is a matter of truth to say to America, you cannot promise No Child Left Behind, and then pursue policies that leave millions of children behind every single day.
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BROWN: By and large, it was not a political day. It was a day to celebrate a moment in history.
Tonight on "NEWSNIGHT," a special edition. We'll devote virtually the entire program to the events of 50 years ago and what has happened since. We'll put you back in time to give you a look at what America was like back in 1954. We'll profile the people who made this ruling happen.
Thurgood Marshall, who ran the NAACP Legal Defense Fund for three decades and later went on to the U.S. Supreme Court, argued the case. That and much more on a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT," 10:00 Eastern time tonight.
Wolf, we hope you will join us.
BLITZER: I will be watching. I am sure all of our viewers will want to watch as well, Aaron Brown, 10:00 p.m. "NEWSNIGHT" tonight, must-watch TV, an important "NEWSNIGHT" tonight.
Despite the Brown ruling, experts say many African-American and other minority students today still are getting shortchanged in their education. One of the major reasons, money.
CNN's Brian Todd reports.
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BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rod Paige remembers it all too well, the all-white school two miles down the road from his in Monticello, Mississippi, the school that had everything his didn't. Two miles away, he says, that might as well have been 200.
ROD PAIGE, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: It was a source of a good deal of bitterness, anger, frustration. It kind of said that we were not quite as worthy as others.
TODD: This was the South in the first half the 20th century., laws separating whites from people of color virtually everywhere.
Vernon Jordan, a prominent Washington attorney, remembers it, too. Growing up in Atlanta in the '30s and '40s, he once had a summer job driving a white banker around town, a man who was astonished to learn that Jordan could read, just part of a mind-set.
VERNON JORDAN, ATTORNEY: Black people, because of their blackness, having to deal here with inferior and separate facilities.
TODD: Jordan and Rod Paige thought that world would come crashing down on May 17, 1954, the case, Brown vs. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. In just 13 paragraphs, the highest court in the land called segregation in public schools unconstitutional.
Rod Paige, then a 20-year-old junior at the all-black Jackson State University in Mississippi, stayed up all night talking to his friends about how the world was going to change for the better the next day. Now, in his own words, how naive.
PAIGE: Then the months that followed and the years that followed told us that that was not the case. There was still much work to be done.
TODD: Paige went on to become a teacher, an administrator and now U.S. education secretary, a position he says he never would have dreamed of before Brown.
(on camera): Rod Paige, Vernon Jordan and other African-American leaders agree, Brown was a success in its core purpose. It created the crucial opening. The legal barriers to equal education were gone. But 50 years later, other barriers remain, barriers based on income. SHERYLL CASHIN, AUTHOR: The average existence for a black and Latino child in public school today is one where the majority of their peers are minority and at least half and often a lot more of their peers are poor. And for white children, the average experience is exactly the opposite.
TODD: Sheryll Cashin, author of the new book "The Failures of Integration," is one of those who point directly to economic disparities in her argument that public schools are still segregated. Another is Tony Sawyer, superintendent of schools in the birthplace of this whole movement, Topeka, Kansas.
TONY SAWYER TOPEKA SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: There's segregation regarding funding because we all are very knowledgeable of the fact that the tax base is very different in any inner city than it is in the suburb.
TODD: A lower tax base, less funding for the local school, lower salaries for less qualified teachers, observers say this spirals into lower test scores, poorer students, with reading and other skill levels far below their wealthier counterparts.
JAMES MCCLINTON, MAYOR OF TOPEKA, KANSAS: I think the biggest hurdle have been the people, the middle class and upper class, leaving the inner city, because they take resources out which leaves us with limited resources to maintain our infrastructure in cities.
TODD: The Bush administration's idea is to test public schools, rate them, allow students the chance to transfer to a better school if theirs doesn't meet certain standards.
But Rod Paige agrees, schools in lower-income districts must be fixed first. The achievement gap won't narrow until the economic gap does. Perhaps then the vision of Brown vs. Board will be fulfilled.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
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BLITZER: And here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our "Web Question of the Day" is this: Should courts intervene to ensure diversity in public schools? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf.
They are all the rage, those low carb diets. Just hype or do they really work? There are new results in a scientific study coming out right now. We'll share it with you when we come back.
Also, an omelet for kings or those with money to burn? We'll tell you why.
First, though, some stories you may have missed this past weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER (voice-over): These bundled-up people were plucked from the frigid water off San Francisco. They were forced into the ocean when their boat began sinking apparently because of a faulty water pump. An elderly passenger died.
In Los Angeles, a fossil auction runs out of fuel in just two minutes. A partial T-Rex skeleton went for 80 grand. That's $400,000 less than the bones were expected to fetch. They are part of a dinosaur discovered more than 100 years ago in Wyoming.
Commencement ceremonies abound this weekend across America. Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers was among those passing along words of wisdom at various campuses. He spoke at Virginia Military Institute. This reporter lucky enough to be the commencement speaker at Saint Louis University, a truly impressive institution of higher learning.
And that's our weekend snapshot.
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BLITZER: New information just released on those low carb diets. Do they really work or do they not work?
Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joining us now live from the CNN Center in Atlanta.
You have got the results of this new study, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, we certainly do. It's just coming out in this hour.
Researchers said, hey, these diets, they are all the rage, but do they really work? And so they put it to the scientific test.
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COHEN (voice-over): The food, the book, the vitamins and the big question, do low carb diets really work better than any other type of diet? A new study says in the long run no. The study found that initially people did lose quite a bit of weight on low carb diets.
But a year after starting the diet, they gained much of that weight back, making the low carb diet no more effective than the traditional low fat diet.
Dr. Walter Willett, who wrote an editorial accompanying the new reports, says, over time, people stayed low carb, but simply ate too much.
DR. WALTER WILLETT, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: We can eat too much of any food even if it's a very good food.
COHEN: So his advise to dieters, pay attention to amounts, even if the diet book says eat as much as you want, exercise regularly. Dieting alone often won't work.
And eat good carbs like whole grain breads and good fats like nuts and fish. And finally, Doctor Willett says everyone is different. Even in this study, some people did better than others on the prescribed diet.
WILLETT: There were some people that lost a large amount of weight, 30 pounds or more and they managed to keep it off. But others lost virtually nothing.
COHEN: By trying a variety of diets, low carb and low fat, you can find the diet that works best for you.
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COHEN: Now, Wolf, in the same medical journal, there was another study that showed that low-carb diets were superior, but this study only lasted six months. And, as we just saw, when they follow these people for a year in total they find that many of these people gain that weight back -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, very interesting.
Elizabeth Cohen, thanks very much.
Some come with cheese, others with ham, but how could an omelet ever go for a grand? That story and the results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
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BLITZER: Blueberry pancake, $16. Crunchy French toast, $14. The Zillion Dollar Frittata at New York's Parker Meridien Hotel, priceless, or very pricey, anyway. It costs -- get this -- $1,000 and it's a mixture of six eggs, one whole lobster and 10 ounces of caviar. It's been on the menu for almost two weeks. But the hotel says no one ordered one until today.
Here's how you're weighing on our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this. Remember, it's not a scientific poll. Where is it? Maybe tomorrow.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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