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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

A Second Chance for Martha Stewart?; Detainees Detail Prison Abuse; Hundreds of Detainees Released from Abu Ghraib

Aired May 21, 2004 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: Is this Martha Stewart's lucky break? A shocking development that could earn her the right to a new trial.
Shock on the campaign trail. Why would John Kerry hold off on accepting the Democratic nomination?

And real Pakistani anger. Why would America upset its ally in the war on terror?

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Martha Stewart surprise. A government witness is charged with perjury. Could the domestic diva be off the hook?

Released. More prisoners are out, but so are more pictures, with shocking accounts of what went on inside Abu Ghraib.

The hunt for bin Laden. Pakistan warns the U.S. not to go too far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a disturbing report that some American soldiers have ventured into Pakistani territory. This is the second or third time this happened in the last two or three years. It is totally unacceptable.

BLITZER: I'll speak with Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, May 21, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A surprising and potentially major development in the Martha Stewart case. A Secret Service employee who gave expert testimony for the prosecution has now been charged with lying on the stand.

CNN's Mary Snow is standing by with details, and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin looks at what this could mean for Stewart's conviction.

Let's begin with Mary -- Mary. MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was nothing short of a stunning development. Federal prosecutors who handled the case against Martha Stewart are accusing one of their own witnesses of lying during his testimony.

The U.S. attorney's office filed two perjury charges against Larry Stewart, an ink expert who works at the Secret Service.

Now Larry Stewart, no relation to Martha Stewart, had testified that two different inks were used on a worksheet belonging to Stewart's stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic. Prosecutors were trying to prove that the document was altered to cover up Stewart's sale of ImClone stock.

U.S. Attorney David Kelly says today's developments will not change the outcome of the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KELLY, U.S. ATTORNEY: Now, today's charges are, indeed, troubling, very troubling, because a trusted and accomplished lab examiner and public servant violated the public trust as well as the trust that so many of his colleagues in law enforcement had in him.

However, we are quite confident that the false testimony will have no impact on the convictions of Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic for both factual and legal reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Stewart's attorneys released a statement saying, "The arrest of one of the government's key witnesses for perjury clearly demonstrates that the trial of Martha Stewart was fatally flawed and unfair."

Now, this is the second allegation of lying. Lawyers contend that a juror lied during jury selection.

Bacanovic's attorney say they want a new trial and what the U.S. attorney is saying, that these perjury charges came to light after complaints were made from other Secret Service agents and that these complaints only came to light last week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mary Snow with the latest on this dramatic development. Mary, thank you very much.

So does this all mean a new trial for Martha Stewart and her new -- and her broker may be in the works? Let's bring in our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He is joining us from New York, as well.

This is pretty stunning. Give us your perspective, Jeffrey. How big of a deal is this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is absolutely a very big deal. I have never heard of the government charging one of its own witnesses with perjury immediately after a trial. It doesn't mean it's never happened, but it is certainly very rare.

The issue here is, on the legal level is, did this testimony materially affect the jury in its verdict? The government is arguing no it didn't, and their argument goes like this.

Peter Bacanovic was charged with altering this document that Larry Stewart analyzed, or said he analyzed. He was acquitted of that charge. And he was acquitted of all perjury relating to that document.

So they're saying, "Look, he's already been acquitted of this testimony, of the charges related to this testimony, so they don't deserve a new trial."

But the problem there is it's not clear that this testimony only related to those charges. It also related to the conspiracy charges and the judge, Judge Cedarbaum, will certainly take a very hard look at this issue.

BLITZER: You -- I think you know obviously a lot better than we do, Judge Cedarbaum. How is she likely to react to this bombshell?

TOOBIN: Well, she's going to be horrified. You know, the idea that a federal agent lied at all, but sat there in her courtroom and lied to her really about a very obvious thing.

And when you read the charges, you see that basically the lies are Stewart saying over and over again, "I conducted these tests. I did these tests." When, in fact, according to this prosecution document, he didn't do the tests at all. He only reviewed the tests done by a colleague. Very obvious lie.

The irony here is he probably could have simply testified that he reviewed another person's work. That's permissible for an expert witness.

But she is going to be horrified that this took place in her courtroom. And she's going to have to decide what the implications are.

BLITZER: I'm sure the defense attorneys will now argue, look, here comes an expert for the Secret Service who makes these allegations against Martha Stewart. The jury is clearly affected by what they hear from this expert, and they go ahead and reach whatever verdicts they do reach.

The judge -- they're going to argue to the judge, you have to start this from scratch, because this was so unfair.

TOOBIN: That's absolutely right, Wolf. And they will take a broader view of this testimony.

The government will argue, no, this only related to certain charges where Peter Bacanovic has been acquitted.

And the government will say -- and I'm sorry, and the defense will stay, I think with some justification, you can't isolate the impact of this testimony to only those charges against Peter Bacanovic. They affect all the charges against Bacanovic, all the charges against Martha Stewart. And you're going to have to start from scratch.

It's -- It's a real serious issue. I've never heard of a precisely analogous case, so I can't say how it will come out for sure. But you can be sure this is not a trivial issue.

BLITZER: I know that when I sat on a jury and I heard a government witness testify, that had a powerful impact on me and my fellow jurors.

One quick question. What happens now? She's supposed to receive her sentence, what, in mid-June?

TOOBIN: June 17. And I have to bet that that's -- that date will be postponed. Because certainly Judge Cedarbaum is going to want to hear in writing and in person from the lawyers about what they believe the implications of that are -- of these developments are.

So I don't see any way the sentencing can go forward on June 17. There certain will be some legal arguments first. And then if the judge decides the conviction stands, and only then, will the sentencing go forward.

BLITZER: Jeffrey Toobin explaining, helping us better understand this dramatic development. Thank you very much.

TOOBIN: See you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this: "Should Martha Stewart get a new trial?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Turning now to the situation in Iraq. U.S. officials warned that the worst was yet to come in the prison abuse scandal. Today it got worse.

"The Washington Post" has obtained and published more graphic images, along with disturbing firsthand claims of mistreatment at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, those photographs, videos and victims' statements published by the "Washington Post" paint a much more vivid picture of the kind of abuse that was going on in Abu Ghraib, abuse that included beatings, religious ridicule and mental and physical torture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): A short, silent digital video posted by the "Washington Post" on its web site shows what appears to be a detainee punched in the face. Then naked and hooded prisoners are dragged into the human pyramid seen in previous photographs.

Still pictures obtained and published by the "Post" show more violent abuse. Here a soldier who appears to be Specialist Charles Graner, one of the accused ringleaders, seems poised to strike a hooded and bound detainee.

In other photographs detainees are seen shackled to railings, standing on boxes in what appears to be an uncomfortable position and seemingly threatened with military dogs.

But it's the statements obtained by the newspaper, translated interviews of the detainees conducted by U.S. military investigators in January, that contain the most chilling allegations of mistreatment.

"They forced me to eat pork and put liquor in my mouth," one detainee said. "They ordered me to curse Islam. And because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion."

He also claimed to be tortured, saying he was hung from a door for more than eight hours. "I was screaming in pain the whole night."

Another prisoner said, "They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees. And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that, they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy."

Another said Specialist Graner used to "Throw food into the toilet and would tell prisoners, 'Go take it and eat it'."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Just a short time ago, Pentagon officials at a briefing here confirmed that, of the ongoing investigations into the deaths of Iraqis and other detainees at the hands of U.S. soldiers, there are nine open cases in which there's possible misconduct by U.S. troops.

Six of those deaths occurred in Iraq, three in Afghanistan. And of those six in Iraq, two are cases that they're investigating at the Abu Ghraib prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, just to be precise on this new information, Jamie, investigating U.S. military personnel on suspicion of what, murder?

MCINTYRE: These are ruled homicides. That means that they're deaths at the hands of another person.

In some case they can decide that these are justifiable as they have in previous cases, but these are all cases that are open. Investigations are ongoing now. And they're looking at possible wrongdoing by U.S. troops that could have contributed to the deaths of these captives. BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much for that report.

More accounts of what happened inside the Abu Ghraib prison may soon surface now that hundreds more prisoners are on the outside.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck is in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More prisoners were released from Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad today: 472 prisoners were processed throughout the day. Many of them, at one point, had been deemed to be security threats, but were later slated for release throughout the day.

Hundreds of people gathered outside of Abu Ghraib prison for hours to see if their relatives would be among the released.

The detainee population at Abu Ghraib now stands at roughly 3,000. At some point there were more than 6,000 prisoners inside of Abu Ghraib prison.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi Governing Council met in an emergency session to discuss the implications of yesterday's raid on the headquarters of council member Ahmed Chalabi.

The raid was conducted yesterday by Iraqi national police, who were supported by U.S. troops. An Iraqi judge said some of Chalabi's associates were targeted in that raid for their alleged involvement in government fraud, kidnapping and other charges.

Chalabi says the raid was ordered by the U.S. as retaliation for his showing too much independence from U.S. policy in Iraq.

Meanwhile, a U.S. official in Baghdad has said that four people have been detained for questioning in connection with the beheading of U.S. civilian Nicholas Berg. They said that two of those who have been detained have been released and that the two others could be released after further questioning.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And there's been heavy fighting in southern Iraq between U.S. troops and the militia of the radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Explosions shock the center of Najaf as U.S. troops came under fire from mortars, rocket propelled grenades and small arms.

And on the road between Najaf and neighboring Qufa, U.S. troops shot it out with gunmen speeding past a checkpoint. The driver was killed.

In Karbala, another Shiite holy city, troops were backed up by tanks and an AC-130 gunship in clashes near two religious shrines.

The U.S. military says troops killed a number of fighters loyal to Sadr. Two Iranian pilgrims and an employee of the Arab television network Al Jazeera were also reported killed.

Freedom for an Oregon man linked to the Madrid train bombings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON MAYFIELD, QUESTIONED ON TRAIN BOMBINGS: I want to thank my family and friends who were supporting me through this what I'll call a harrowing ordeal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Why he's out of custody but not completely out of suspicion.

Hunting Osama bin Laden. How close is the U.S. and others to capturing the al Qaeda leader? I'll speak with Pakistan's foreign minister.

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTAS KARAMANLIS, PRIME MINISTER OF GREECE: And we feel very confident that everything will be in place in time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Construction still ongoing and security concerns growing. How Greece plans to be ready for the Olympics. My interview with the prime minister, that's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: An Oregon attorney held for two weeks in connection with the Madrid train bombings has now been released by U.S. authorities. But his case is far from over.

Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, is joining us now live to explain why. What's going on?

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Wolf. The cloud of suspicion still hangs over Brandon Mayfield, at least as far as U.S. law enforcement is concerned.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Brandon Mayfield spent the day at home in Portland, avoiding the glare of media lights, but he's still under the glare of suspicion. Law enforcement sources insist it was Mayfield's fingerprint on a bagful of detonators found in Madrid.

Mayfield insists he's innocent. MAYFIELD: All I can reiterate is I didn't have anything to do with this Madrid, Spain, bombing. And I'll continue to reiterate that.

ARENA: Spanish officials say the print belongs to an Algerian man, Ouhnane Daoud, but legal experts doubt this was a factor in Mayfield's court ordered release.

Government sources say the FBI doesn't have anything else on Mayfield besides the disputed print to warrant detaining him further and suggest the judge ordered his release for lack of further evidence.

KEN PIERNICK, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I cannot imagine very many prosecutors that would go to court without more evidence than a partial fingerprint. So they need to develop more in the case, and I'm sure if there is a case to be developed, they will do so.

ARENA: The U.S. district court in Oregon says Mayfield is still classified a material witness and grand jury secrecy rules still apply.

And according to his brother, Mayfield was released with travel restrictions.

KENT MAYFIELD, BROTHER: I would hope that the American people do not judge my brother because of this -- this, you know, association. They should know that he is innocent. He would never condone violence. He has never supported terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Law enforcement sources say the investigation continues into how a print they believe to be Mayfield's got on that bag in Madrid. And they say that he will remain under surveillance -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. The mystery will therefore continue. Kelli, thanks very much.

A fine line drawn in the war on terror.

KHURSHID KASURI, PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER: It is best to let your friends know where the limits are.

BLITZER: Strong warnings from Pakistan to the United States. I'll speak with Pakistan's foreign minister.

Increased security under security. Are too many alerts causing Americans to become complicit?

And considering a rare tactic. Why John Kerry may not -- yes, why he may not accept his party's nomination at the national convention.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: One of the United States' most important allies in the global fight on terror has been the Pakistani government of President Pervez Musharraf. So why is the Pakistani foreign minister so angry at the Bush administration right now?

I sat down with Khurshid Kasuri just a short while ago here in Washington. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Foreign minister, as we speak right now, there are reports that U.S. forces have moved from the Afghan side of the border into Pakistan in the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

KASURI: Well, it is very dramatic that the way you put it, and the hunt for Osama bin Laden is not what I was told.

BLITZER: What were you told? What do you know about it?

KASURI: And I was coming here on your show, I was just told by the embassy staff that they had a disturbing report that some American soldiers had ventured into Pakistani territory. It's second or third time this happened in the last two or three years. This is totally unacceptable.

And I'll tell you why it is unacceptable. Not only because we are a proud sovereign nation and we don't like people messing around our territory. It also shows to the people and continues to show them there's a lot of trust between Pakistan and the United States and we share information.

But the opponents, those who do not wish us to cooperate with the United States get another opportunity to say, see, they don't trust you.

I don't see what purpose it serves. If you have 10 or 15 people coming into a border village, what will they achieve? Nothing.

We've got half a million plus Army, battle-hardened, the troops. You've got barely just 13,000. If 20 of your soldiers come there, what will they achieve?

I'll tell you what the real fear is and I really -- I don't want that to happen. Everybody in the tribal area is armed. Supposing there are American casualties on our territory. It will be a very big incident. We don't want that to happen.

All you have to do is tell our people we have a trilateral commission between Pakistan, Afghanistan and the United States to share intelligence along the border regions.

And I was very upset when I was told this morning. The level of cooperation between the United States and Pakistan is very great, it's total sharing of information. Local commanders take it difficult for top leaders like President Bush and President Musharraf. BLITZER: But if there's actionable intelligence that perhaps Osama bin Laden or one of his top lieutenants, Ayman al Zawahiri, may be moving, sometimes they have to move quickly in order to make sure they get that done.

What would be so bad if the U.S. were to move forces?

KASURI: No, it wouldn't be bad. It's a question of principle. You allow somebody to enter one day. It's best to let your friends know where the limits are.

It is bad. All they have to do was to tell Pakistani army. They've got hotlines. And they trust each other. Either you say that they don't trust? Then the relationship changes. We frankly built a relationship of trust. All they had to do was pick up the phone, tell the local commander that this is happening. We're willing to coordinate on our side, you do it on yours.

BLITZER: Have you raised your concerns with the Bush administration?

KASURI: Of course I have no doubt because I was just told when I was coming here that the local military commander or our spokesman of the ISPR, Inter Service Public Relations, has protested. And I hope that the Americans will regret the incident.

BLITZER: What will be the impact on the U.S./Pakistani relationship if these reports are true, that U.S. forces have moved across the border into Pakistan?

KASURI: As I said moved is a dramatic word. I'm sure they're not really moved. The reports are that they ventured into our territory and then when we ask then, they will say, "Oh, we made a mistake." But if you make mistakes too often, you create an impression that you're doing it deliberately.

MATTHEWS: The hunt for Osama bin Laden. How close is Pakistan and the United States and others in capturing bin Laden?

KASURI: Well, as far as bin Laden's concerned, I'll be very truthful with you. Until about a year ago when somebody asked me -- and I used to say and I'm on record having said, as is President Musharraf, that maybe we thought he was dead.

Until there were these tapes produced and the American voice analysts said that no, those look like authentic. The conventional wisdom then was that he could be on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

BLITZER: You believe he is alive and he's somewhere along the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan?

KASURI: Well, I spoke to the president some time ago...

BLITZER: President Musharraf?

KASURI: Yes. And the impression -- he himself said -- I used to think he was not alive, but now he probably thinks that he is alive.

BLITZER: Switching gears now, the new government in India. India is a nuclear power; Pakistan's a nuclear power. You have a dispute over Kashmir. There had been some progress in recent months with the previous government.

What about the new government? Are you confident this new government in India can continue on the peace process with Pakistan?

KASURI: Well, I think it would require political leadership, which was exhibited in the past by former Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Musharraf. It should be easier, actually, for them to do.

We've got a calendar of events which would have led to foreign ministers' meeting in August. I hope that nothing happens to disturb that.

BLITZER: So you're still planning on meeting with the new foreign minister of India in August?

KASURI: Yes, I am. And I've done something else.

Once it became clear that the former government had lost, I rang Delhi, and I sent a message to Prime Minister Vajpayee through Mr. Brajesh Misra, the national security adviser, and I said it was my fervent hope that the progress that had been made during his tenure would continue and that the BNP opposition would not try and create hurdles for the Congress Party if it wished to proceed along that path.

And Mr. Misra said, no, the former prime minister was committed to it. I don't know who the new leader of the opposition is going to be. But I do hope that the Congress Party will pick up the threads from where we left.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And late today the Pentagon issued a statement regarding the incursion into Pakistan by U.S. troops. It says, and I'm quoting now, "The border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan can be hard to determine. U.S. troops understand they are not to cross into Pakistani territory. If they do cross, it is unintentional."

The deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage, has also now weighed in on the controversy in an interview with Zain Verjee of CNN International.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: If true, it would be unhelpful. I'm sure it was an accident and we'll take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: This programming note: you can see more of my interview with the Pakistani foreign minister, Khurshid Kasuri. That will be on "LATE EDITION" this Sunday, noon eastern.

A bleak landscape. Israel ends its raid on Rafah. Although a pullout is under way, find out why Israel says the military offensive isn't over yet.

Terror scare. The FBI puts American law enforcement agents on alert. But what are they looking for? And should you be concerned?

Plus this...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We deem it as our responsibility to make sure we have good, successful and secure safe games.

BLITZER: Guarding the games. Is Greece prepared for a possible terrorist strike at the Olympic games in Athens? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Israeli troops and tanks have pulled back to the outskirts of Rafah refugee camp after four days of deadly clashes. For many Palestinians, all that's left is rubble. But the Israelis say the offensive, which followed the deaths of 13 soldiers, is not over.

CNN's Matthew Chance is in Rafah and has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another funeral, another outpouring of grief and fury. There will be many more here.

The people of Rafah are burying their dead in anger. Palestinian officials say at least 40 have been killed and that civilians and children are among them. At this makeshift morgue, we found 17 bodies still to be buried. Is it a grim backlog in a city that's been under siege.

Under international pressure, Israel's bulldozers and tanks are finally moving back. Israel says this was an operation to smash tunnels used by Palestinian militants to smuggle in weapons. But military officials admit none of the tunnels have so far been found. They must come back, they say.

(on camera): Israel says this isn't a pullout, just a redeployment of its forces, that its operations in the Rafah refugee camp are far from over. But the tight military curfew that's been in post here has been lifted in some areas. And many residents of Rafah are taking the opportunity to leave.

(voice-over): Like their neighbors, the Eliad (ph) family has been here since 1948. Now they're refugees once more. "The bulldozers will be back," Ibrahim (ph) tells me. "So we must leave now, while we can."

Some in Israel are calling for all these houses to go. Israeli soldiers patrolling the Egyptian border and killed here in the past will be much safer, they say. But many here believe this will bring nothing but despair, not security for Israel, nor its troops.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: That report from CNN's Matthew Chance in Gaza.

Here in the United States, officials have been under -- the United States, that is, has been under an elevated threat level for almost three years now. That's the terror threat level. On top of that, there are now almost daily scares and other warnings in cities across the country.

Tom Foreman once again back with us to take a look at what's behind this and the possible impact.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, all along the East Coast today, where millions of people ride trains every day, railway security was under scrutiny in the wake of a series of apparent new terrorist threats. The problem is it now appears that these new concerns, if they prove to be legitimate at all, have nothing to do with terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): Amtrak stopped two of its high-speed Acela trains and searched them with bomb dogs after a threat was called in to Baltimore police. But Amtrak says it was a routine precaution, the same as it has exercised for years. FBI agents and police in Philadelphia are examining a motion detection device found on tracks there.

But government and railway officials confirm such devices are often used by train companies and no link to terrorism is apparent. But add to all that a new FBI warning for people to watch out for suicide bombers and the public is hearing a lot of scary talk.

JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: In this day and age, there's no public official or government that wants to be caught in the situation that following a terrorist attack, it was found out that they didn't issue a communication or they didn't tell the folks they were supposed to tell about it. And so what we have now is a flood of information. Every little scrap of information that suggests even mildly that there might be a threat, that's sort of put out there. And I think that's a mistake.

FOREMAN: There are real costs to the fear. The New York Transit Authority is considering banning all photography on subways, buses and trains, trying to keep terrorists from collecting information on potential targets.

The Department of Homeland Security wants new security measures for railways, including the installation of see-through trash cans which make it harder to hide bombs. Amtrak says replacing all of its trash cans could cost $500,000. And there is the mental cost.

RETIRED LT. GEN. DANIEL CHRISTMAN, U.S. ARMY: You cannot, it seems to me, keep a civil population or any military unit in a constant state of heightened readiness before that unit or that population simply turns itself off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: Every expert I talked to today is worried about just that, that people are beginning to be told to worry so much that they'll just start giving up on it. There are legitimate fears, they say. We should listen to official warnings, but not get caught up in every single story about a package left behind somewhere.

After all, Philadelphia transit people say, every single day, five cell phones get left on their trains and buses and they have to collect them.

BLITZER: It almost becomes like background music after a while. Thanks very much, Tom Foreman, for that report. Good advice.

Will Greece be ready to secure the Olympic Games? That's the question on the minds of spectators and athletes alike. Up next, I'll ask the Greek prime minister.

Also, Bill Clinton on tour. Will the former president's new book overshadow Democratic hopeful John Kerry? Carlos Watson joins me live for "The Inside Edge."

And later, alligators and automobiles, don't ever mix the two. We'll explain.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A deadly bomb attack in Northeastern Bangladesh. Police and witnesses say two people were killed and dozens more were wounded in the blast outside a Muslim shrine. Among the wounded is the newly appointed British ambassador, a Bangladeshi- born Briton. Doctors say his wounds are not serious.

Shiites spill into the streets of Beirut. More than half-a- million Shiite Muslims and Hezbollah members marched through the Lebanese capital today to protest U.S. attacks on holy shrines in Iraq. The demonstration came in response to last week's call for protest by Hezbollah's secretary-general.

A meeting of the minds in Moscow. Russia and the European Union have signed a protocol confirming E.U. support for Russia's inclusion in the World Trade organization. E.U. leaders are in Moscow for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

And royal wedding fever in Madrid. Celebrations have begun as a prelude to the marriage of Spain's Prince Felipe tomorrow to former TV news anchor Letizia Ortiz. The royal family hosted a banquet tonight for hundreds of guests from around the world. The ceremony will be the first royal wedding in Madrid in almost a century.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we reported at the top of this show, there's some new information emerging right now about the deaths of detainees in Iraq.

Once again, our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, joining us with this information -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you can imagine, in the wake of the prison abuse scandal, lots of questions about prisoners both in Iraq and Afghanistan that may have died while in U.S. custody.

And in a background briefing just a short time ago, the Pentagon trying to put some context on that, revealed that of 37 cases in which prisoners have died while in U.S. custody, they have essentially nine open investigations, of which eight are possible homicides. Six of those cases are in Iraq, three in Afghanistan. These are cases in which troops may be subject to some sort of criminal investigation for wrongdoing for causing the deaths of these detainees.

Many of the cases were ruled natural causes and had already been reported. But according to the statistics provided to the Pentagon to us just this afternoon, they now believe they may have as many as eight cases in which misconduct or mistreatment by U.S. troops may have resulted in the deaths of Iraqis or detainees in Afghanistan. Again, these are ongoing investigations, so nobody has been charged yet in these cases.

BLITZER: Of those six in Iraq, would they be at the Abu Ghraib prison, Jamie?

MCINTYRE: We're told that two of those deaths were the Abu Ghraib prison. What's not clear is, one was apparently a case of typhoid or what is believed to be typhoid. That's still awaiting confirmation. That might end up being a natural cause death. But two of the cases they're investigating are at Abu Ghraib.

BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre will be following this story for us. Thanks, Jamie, very much.

It is exactly 12 weeks until the Olympic flag rises over Athens, Greece, for the beginning of the 2004 Summer Games. And foremost in the minds of organizers are concerns over the safety and security of the athletes and the visitors. The price for security so far is $1.2 billion. And when the Games open, 70,000 security personnel will be on duty.

Earlier, I spoke with the Greek prime minister, Costas Karamanlis, about how he thinks the preparations are going.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Prime minister, thanks very much for joining us. Welcome to Washington. Welcome to the United States.

COSTAS KARAMANLIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Blitzer.

BLITZER: Some U.S. officials who have gone to Athens, some members of Congress have come back, said on my program, they're not really concerned about the preparations for the terror, but they're concerned that some of the venues, some of the structures are not yet complete and as a result the security personnel can't do some of the advanced preparation that they would normally like to do to prepare for this Games.

KARAMANLIS: Well, this is not the case anymore. It is true that in some cases we had a late start, a slow start years ago.

But now, during the previous administration, at least, and of course after the March elections and our taking office, we are speeding up the process. All the venues are prepared, or at least some of them which are the latest to be ready will be in mid to late June.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Wait a second. Everything will be ready to go by mid to late June?

KARAMANLIS: That's right.

So we think that there is time enough not only for security to take over, but also we have to time to exercise for any scenario.

BLITZER: Because some of the pictures that we've seen, videotape as recently as right now, shows that some of these construction sites seem to be more than a month away, let's say, from completion.

KARAMANLIS: Well, I would say that 90 percent (UNINTELLIGIBLE) There are some parts which remain. We're speeding up the pace of work on that. And we feel very confident that everything will be in place in time.

BLITZER: There are some reports out there -- and you can tell us if this is true -- that you have advised the delegations, the Olympic teams from the United States, Britain and Israel, if they win, not to run around with their flags and to demonstrate and to be exuberant fans, as they normally would be out of concern for security.

KARAMANLIS: Well, Mr. Blitzer, I would say that this is not true.

In the sense that we invite everybody to participate, we'd be very happy to receive all the teams from all the countries and, of course, all the spectators and participants. And we invite everybody to jubilate very much if they get their medals, which we strongly support they will.

BLITZER: And, as far as you know, the International Olympic Committee, no one is advising the American delegation or the British delegation or the Israeli delegation and their fans not to bring their flags or anything like that?

KARAMANLIS: The IOC is very strongly confiding that we will have very successful Games. And I think we have been cooperating with them very good throughout these years. And they look forward to a successful Games as well.

BLITZER: You know, obviously, the whole world will be riveted on Athens, Greece. This puts an enormous amount of pressure on you and your government.

KARAMANLIS: May I look at it from another point of view? That's the golden opportunity for Greece to present its face, its image, its modern identity to the world. And this is something which we are certainly making every effort to take advantage of.

BLITZER: What about -- let's switch gears a little bit and talk about Iraq right now. The Greece -- a key member of NATO right now, where does Greece stand as far as the transfer of sovereignty in Iraq June 30 to some sort of Iraqi interim government still to be defined? Where does Greece stand? I assume this was a subject that came up when you met with the president.

KARAMANLIS: We did discuss it over.

And we do very strongly support to keep the schedule of transition of power, every effort to fully democratize and normalize Iraq. And we are very actively participating in the effort to reconstruct Iraq. Approximately, $10 billion on part of Greece have ether been already given or are earmarked in the selection.

BLITZER: Is Greece ready to support NATO involvement, direct NATO involvement in Iraq, along the lines of the way NATO is operating in Afghanistan?

KARAMANLIS: Well, what I said already is that we want to see the speediest process of transition, democracy and reconstruction. And what we support is above all that every effort from now on will be as much as possible under the auspices of the United Nations. What direct expressions we take after that step, we're open to discussion.

BLITZER: On that note, we'll say thank you to the prime minister of Greece. Good luck to you, to everyone in Greece. We're all looking forward to the Olympic Games.

KARAMANLIS: Thank you very much, Mr. Blitzer.

BLITZER: Costas Karamanlis, the Greek prime minister speaking with me earlier.

Let's go back to Kelli Arena. She's getting more information now on the prison abuse scandal.

What have you learned, Kelli?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Justice Department just put out a statement saying that it has opened an investigation regarding a civilian contractor in Iraq. Justice said that it received a referral from the Department of Defense yesterday.

In the statement, Justice would only say, "We remain committed to taking all appropriate action within our jurisdiction regarding allegations of mistreatment to Iraqi prisoners." But Justice does not give any details. It doesn't name the civilian. It doesn't say if this person was involved in the Abu Ghraib allegations of wrongdoing. It just says a civilian contractor. We're on it. If we find out any more, we'll let you know, but right now, Justice officials saying no further comment at this time.

BLITZER: Another twist in this escalating scandal.

Thanks very much, Kelli, for that.

ARENA: You're welcome.

BLITZER: We'll get back to you.

Ahead, why presidential candidate John Kerry may delay accepting the Democratic nomination. Plus, some potentially big political summer stories. Our Carlos Watson standing by to join us with "The Inside Edge."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

CNN has confirmed John Kerry may not accept the Democratic presidential nomination, at least officially, at his party's convention in July. Kerry may delay taking the title so that he can continue to spend freely on his campaign.

It's time now for "The Inside Edge" with Carlos Watson. Our political analyst tells us about what's going on.

This is going to be a summer a lot of people getting ready for the Olympics, other activities. How does that fit into politics?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, a lot is going on. And more people have paid attention to politics this spring than the past; 64 percent of the public says they're paying a lot of attention to the presidential race. Four years ago, only 32 percent.

But I think we're about to hit a lull here, Wolf. I think with summer coming, with high school and college graduation, people getting ready to take those Memorial Day trips, I think there will be a quiet period here for several weeks. And that could be good news for the president. It could be bad news. It could be good news because it gives him a chance underneath the radar maybe to fix some issues in Iraq. it could be bad news because things get frozen in place. And right now, we know that he's down by some five points in a lot of the polls. We know that he's giving a big speech, though, on Monday. And the president, like a lot of people, are thinking this may be the last chance to connect with voters when they're really paying attention for another several weeks. So I don't think it's any accident this Monday he's giving a pretty big speech.

BLITZER: Well, some people would argue that they're not really paying much attention even right now, but they will at some point. But what will be some of the big stories we should be looking out for this summer?

WATSON: Three stand out to me.

First and foremost, Bill Clinton's book tour. I think this could be a big opportunity for John Kerry.

BLITZER: That comes out at the end of June.

WATSON: Comes out at the end of June.

And three things I would look at. One, does President Clinton take the opportunity to really make the case on behalf of John Kerry's candidacy? No one sells an audience like Bill Clinton, at least a Democratic audience. And there's a big opportunity. Two, does he take this opportunity in order to make the case against President Bush? You particularly see the former President Clinton do that on issues of taxes and the deficit.

Three and finally on terms of what Bill Clinton could do here, will he once again rebrand the Democratic Party as the party of peace and prosperity and once again try to remind people this is a different Democratic Party? So I think that's one of the big stories.

Two other big stories, between now and June 30, the handover to Iraq, expectation of what's gone on in terms of prisoner abuse, in terms of the additional fighting, in terms of the beheading, has been so lowered, believe it or not, these 45 days may offer President Bush a chance to actually right the ship and get policy right. Can you imagine how different things would be if we wake up in early July and there's a lot less fighting, things seem to be stabilized the , we hand over some amount of power? It would be pretty powerful.

BLITZER: I was going to say, are there some other international stories out there that we should be paying attention to as well?

WATSON: There is.

Although we're paying attention to our own election, a couple big elections have happened. Spain two months ago, they threw out an incumbent. A couple weeks ago in India, they threw out an incumbent. Stay tuned to see what happens in Japan in July. If they also throw out an incumbent, we are going to begin to see a global phenomenon happen of anti-incumbency. And, of course, we have got our own election here in America in November and early next we could see one in the U.K.

If you see a massive turnover of world leadership, not only will (AUDIO GAP) leaders all around the world.

BLITZER: That could make Karl Rove nervous to hear that kind of speculation. Carlos, thanks very much.

WATSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, one powerful bite caught on tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this. Remember, though, it's not a scientific poll. Pretty evenly split.

Our picture of the day, a 7-foot alligator found itself under the car in a neighborhood in Tampa Bay. The owner videotaped a state wildlife worker as he trapped the gator and the gator took a bite out of the car's bumper.

A reminder, "LATE EDITION" Sunday, the last word in Sunday talk, airs noon Eastern. Among my guests this Sunday, the Iraqi Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi.

Until then, thanks very much for joining us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 21, 2004 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Happening now: Is this Martha Stewart's lucky break? A shocking development that could earn her the right to a new trial.
Shock on the campaign trail. Why would John Kerry hold off on accepting the Democratic nomination?

And real Pakistani anger. Why would America upset its ally in the war on terror?

Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Martha Stewart surprise. A government witness is charged with perjury. Could the domestic diva be off the hook?

Released. More prisoners are out, but so are more pictures, with shocking accounts of what went on inside Abu Ghraib.

The hunt for bin Laden. Pakistan warns the U.S. not to go too far.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a disturbing report that some American soldiers have ventured into Pakistani territory. This is the second or third time this happened in the last two or three years. It is totally unacceptable.

BLITZER: I'll speak with Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Friday, May 21, 2004.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: A surprising and potentially major development in the Martha Stewart case. A Secret Service employee who gave expert testimony for the prosecution has now been charged with lying on the stand.

CNN's Mary Snow is standing by with details, and CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin looks at what this could mean for Stewart's conviction.

Let's begin with Mary -- Mary. MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it was nothing short of a stunning development. Federal prosecutors who handled the case against Martha Stewart are accusing one of their own witnesses of lying during his testimony.

The U.S. attorney's office filed two perjury charges against Larry Stewart, an ink expert who works at the Secret Service.

Now Larry Stewart, no relation to Martha Stewart, had testified that two different inks were used on a worksheet belonging to Stewart's stockbroker, Peter Bacanovic. Prosecutors were trying to prove that the document was altered to cover up Stewart's sale of ImClone stock.

U.S. Attorney David Kelly says today's developments will not change the outcome of the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KELLY, U.S. ATTORNEY: Now, today's charges are, indeed, troubling, very troubling, because a trusted and accomplished lab examiner and public servant violated the public trust as well as the trust that so many of his colleagues in law enforcement had in him.

However, we are quite confident that the false testimony will have no impact on the convictions of Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic for both factual and legal reasons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Stewart's attorneys released a statement saying, "The arrest of one of the government's key witnesses for perjury clearly demonstrates that the trial of Martha Stewart was fatally flawed and unfair."

Now, this is the second allegation of lying. Lawyers contend that a juror lied during jury selection.

Bacanovic's attorney say they want a new trial and what the U.S. attorney is saying, that these perjury charges came to light after complaints were made from other Secret Service agents and that these complaints only came to light last week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Mary Snow with the latest on this dramatic development. Mary, thank you very much.

So does this all mean a new trial for Martha Stewart and her new -- and her broker may be in the works? Let's bring in our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. He is joining us from New York, as well.

This is pretty stunning. Give us your perspective, Jeffrey. How big of a deal is this?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is absolutely a very big deal. I have never heard of the government charging one of its own witnesses with perjury immediately after a trial. It doesn't mean it's never happened, but it is certainly very rare.

The issue here is, on the legal level is, did this testimony materially affect the jury in its verdict? The government is arguing no it didn't, and their argument goes like this.

Peter Bacanovic was charged with altering this document that Larry Stewart analyzed, or said he analyzed. He was acquitted of that charge. And he was acquitted of all perjury relating to that document.

So they're saying, "Look, he's already been acquitted of this testimony, of the charges related to this testimony, so they don't deserve a new trial."

But the problem there is it's not clear that this testimony only related to those charges. It also related to the conspiracy charges and the judge, Judge Cedarbaum, will certainly take a very hard look at this issue.

BLITZER: You -- I think you know obviously a lot better than we do, Judge Cedarbaum. How is she likely to react to this bombshell?

TOOBIN: Well, she's going to be horrified. You know, the idea that a federal agent lied at all, but sat there in her courtroom and lied to her really about a very obvious thing.

And when you read the charges, you see that basically the lies are Stewart saying over and over again, "I conducted these tests. I did these tests." When, in fact, according to this prosecution document, he didn't do the tests at all. He only reviewed the tests done by a colleague. Very obvious lie.

The irony here is he probably could have simply testified that he reviewed another person's work. That's permissible for an expert witness.

But she is going to be horrified that this took place in her courtroom. And she's going to have to decide what the implications are.

BLITZER: I'm sure the defense attorneys will now argue, look, here comes an expert for the Secret Service who makes these allegations against Martha Stewart. The jury is clearly affected by what they hear from this expert, and they go ahead and reach whatever verdicts they do reach.

The judge -- they're going to argue to the judge, you have to start this from scratch, because this was so unfair.

TOOBIN: That's absolutely right, Wolf. And they will take a broader view of this testimony.

The government will argue, no, this only related to certain charges where Peter Bacanovic has been acquitted.

And the government will say -- and I'm sorry, and the defense will stay, I think with some justification, you can't isolate the impact of this testimony to only those charges against Peter Bacanovic. They affect all the charges against Bacanovic, all the charges against Martha Stewart. And you're going to have to start from scratch.

It's -- It's a real serious issue. I've never heard of a precisely analogous case, so I can't say how it will come out for sure. But you can be sure this is not a trivial issue.

BLITZER: I know that when I sat on a jury and I heard a government witness testify, that had a powerful impact on me and my fellow jurors.

One quick question. What happens now? She's supposed to receive her sentence, what, in mid-June?

TOOBIN: June 17. And I have to bet that that's -- that date will be postponed. Because certainly Judge Cedarbaum is going to want to hear in writing and in person from the lawyers about what they believe the implications of that are -- of these developments are.

So I don't see any way the sentencing can go forward on June 17. There certain will be some legal arguments first. And then if the judge decides the conviction stands, and only then, will the sentencing go forward.

BLITZER: Jeffrey Toobin explaining, helping us better understand this dramatic development. Thank you very much.

TOOBIN: See you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our Web question of the day is this: "Should Martha Stewart get a new trial?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/Wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast.

Turning now to the situation in Iraq. U.S. officials warned that the worst was yet to come in the prison abuse scandal. Today it got worse.

"The Washington Post" has obtained and published more graphic images, along with disturbing firsthand claims of mistreatment at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Let's go live to our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, those photographs, videos and victims' statements published by the "Washington Post" paint a much more vivid picture of the kind of abuse that was going on in Abu Ghraib, abuse that included beatings, religious ridicule and mental and physical torture.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): A short, silent digital video posted by the "Washington Post" on its web site shows what appears to be a detainee punched in the face. Then naked and hooded prisoners are dragged into the human pyramid seen in previous photographs.

Still pictures obtained and published by the "Post" show more violent abuse. Here a soldier who appears to be Specialist Charles Graner, one of the accused ringleaders, seems poised to strike a hooded and bound detainee.

In other photographs detainees are seen shackled to railings, standing on boxes in what appears to be an uncomfortable position and seemingly threatened with military dogs.

But it's the statements obtained by the newspaper, translated interviews of the detainees conducted by U.S. military investigators in January, that contain the most chilling allegations of mistreatment.

"They forced me to eat pork and put liquor in my mouth," one detainee said. "They ordered me to curse Islam. And because they started to hit my broken leg, I cursed my religion."

He also claimed to be tortured, saying he was hung from a door for more than eight hours. "I was screaming in pain the whole night."

Another prisoner said, "They forced us to walk like dogs on our hands and knees. And we had to bark like a dog, and if we didn't do that, they started hitting us hard on our face and chest with no mercy."

Another said Specialist Graner used to "Throw food into the toilet and would tell prisoners, 'Go take it and eat it'."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Just a short time ago, Pentagon officials at a briefing here confirmed that, of the ongoing investigations into the deaths of Iraqis and other detainees at the hands of U.S. soldiers, there are nine open cases in which there's possible misconduct by U.S. troops.

Six of those deaths occurred in Iraq, three in Afghanistan. And of those six in Iraq, two are cases that they're investigating at the Abu Ghraib prison -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Well, just to be precise on this new information, Jamie, investigating U.S. military personnel on suspicion of what, murder?

MCINTYRE: These are ruled homicides. That means that they're deaths at the hands of another person.

In some case they can decide that these are justifiable as they have in previous cases, but these are all cases that are open. Investigations are ongoing now. And they're looking at possible wrongdoing by U.S. troops that could have contributed to the deaths of these captives. BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre, thanks very much for that report.

More accounts of what happened inside the Abu Ghraib prison may soon surface now that hundreds more prisoners are on the outside.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck is in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More prisoners were released from Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad today: 472 prisoners were processed throughout the day. Many of them, at one point, had been deemed to be security threats, but were later slated for release throughout the day.

Hundreds of people gathered outside of Abu Ghraib prison for hours to see if their relatives would be among the released.

The detainee population at Abu Ghraib now stands at roughly 3,000. At some point there were more than 6,000 prisoners inside of Abu Ghraib prison.

Meanwhile, the Iraqi Governing Council met in an emergency session to discuss the implications of yesterday's raid on the headquarters of council member Ahmed Chalabi.

The raid was conducted yesterday by Iraqi national police, who were supported by U.S. troops. An Iraqi judge said some of Chalabi's associates were targeted in that raid for their alleged involvement in government fraud, kidnapping and other charges.

Chalabi says the raid was ordered by the U.S. as retaliation for his showing too much independence from U.S. policy in Iraq.

Meanwhile, a U.S. official in Baghdad has said that four people have been detained for questioning in connection with the beheading of U.S. civilian Nicholas Berg. They said that two of those who have been detained have been released and that the two others could be released after further questioning.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And there's been heavy fighting in southern Iraq between U.S. troops and the militia of the radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Explosions shock the center of Najaf as U.S. troops came under fire from mortars, rocket propelled grenades and small arms.

And on the road between Najaf and neighboring Qufa, U.S. troops shot it out with gunmen speeding past a checkpoint. The driver was killed.

In Karbala, another Shiite holy city, troops were backed up by tanks and an AC-130 gunship in clashes near two religious shrines.

The U.S. military says troops killed a number of fighters loyal to Sadr. Two Iranian pilgrims and an employee of the Arab television network Al Jazeera were also reported killed.

Freedom for an Oregon man linked to the Madrid train bombings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON MAYFIELD, QUESTIONED ON TRAIN BOMBINGS: I want to thank my family and friends who were supporting me through this what I'll call a harrowing ordeal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Why he's out of custody but not completely out of suspicion.

Hunting Osama bin Laden. How close is the U.S. and others to capturing the al Qaeda leader? I'll speak with Pakistan's foreign minister.

Plus this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTAS KARAMANLIS, PRIME MINISTER OF GREECE: And we feel very confident that everything will be in place in time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Construction still ongoing and security concerns growing. How Greece plans to be ready for the Olympics. My interview with the prime minister, that's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: An Oregon attorney held for two weeks in connection with the Madrid train bombings has now been released by U.S. authorities. But his case is far from over.

Our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, is joining us now live to explain why. What's going on?

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Wolf. The cloud of suspicion still hangs over Brandon Mayfield, at least as far as U.S. law enforcement is concerned.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Brandon Mayfield spent the day at home in Portland, avoiding the glare of media lights, but he's still under the glare of suspicion. Law enforcement sources insist it was Mayfield's fingerprint on a bagful of detonators found in Madrid.

Mayfield insists he's innocent. MAYFIELD: All I can reiterate is I didn't have anything to do with this Madrid, Spain, bombing. And I'll continue to reiterate that.

ARENA: Spanish officials say the print belongs to an Algerian man, Ouhnane Daoud, but legal experts doubt this was a factor in Mayfield's court ordered release.

Government sources say the FBI doesn't have anything else on Mayfield besides the disputed print to warrant detaining him further and suggest the judge ordered his release for lack of further evidence.

KEN PIERNICK, FORMER FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I cannot imagine very many prosecutors that would go to court without more evidence than a partial fingerprint. So they need to develop more in the case, and I'm sure if there is a case to be developed, they will do so.

ARENA: The U.S. district court in Oregon says Mayfield is still classified a material witness and grand jury secrecy rules still apply.

And according to his brother, Mayfield was released with travel restrictions.

KENT MAYFIELD, BROTHER: I would hope that the American people do not judge my brother because of this -- this, you know, association. They should know that he is innocent. He would never condone violence. He has never supported terrorism.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Law enforcement sources say the investigation continues into how a print they believe to be Mayfield's got on that bag in Madrid. And they say that he will remain under surveillance -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. The mystery will therefore continue. Kelli, thanks very much.

A fine line drawn in the war on terror.

KHURSHID KASURI, PAKISTANI FOREIGN MINISTER: It is best to let your friends know where the limits are.

BLITZER: Strong warnings from Pakistan to the United States. I'll speak with Pakistan's foreign minister.

Increased security under security. Are too many alerts causing Americans to become complicit?

And considering a rare tactic. Why John Kerry may not -- yes, why he may not accept his party's nomination at the national convention.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: One of the United States' most important allies in the global fight on terror has been the Pakistani government of President Pervez Musharraf. So why is the Pakistani foreign minister so angry at the Bush administration right now?

I sat down with Khurshid Kasuri just a short while ago here in Washington. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Foreign minister, as we speak right now, there are reports that U.S. forces have moved from the Afghan side of the border into Pakistan in the hunt for Osama bin Laden.

KASURI: Well, it is very dramatic that the way you put it, and the hunt for Osama bin Laden is not what I was told.

BLITZER: What were you told? What do you know about it?

KASURI: And I was coming here on your show, I was just told by the embassy staff that they had a disturbing report that some American soldiers had ventured into Pakistani territory. It's second or third time this happened in the last two or three years. This is totally unacceptable.

And I'll tell you why it is unacceptable. Not only because we are a proud sovereign nation and we don't like people messing around our territory. It also shows to the people and continues to show them there's a lot of trust between Pakistan and the United States and we share information.

But the opponents, those who do not wish us to cooperate with the United States get another opportunity to say, see, they don't trust you.

I don't see what purpose it serves. If you have 10 or 15 people coming into a border village, what will they achieve? Nothing.

We've got half a million plus Army, battle-hardened, the troops. You've got barely just 13,000. If 20 of your soldiers come there, what will they achieve?

I'll tell you what the real fear is and I really -- I don't want that to happen. Everybody in the tribal area is armed. Supposing there are American casualties on our territory. It will be a very big incident. We don't want that to happen.

All you have to do is tell our people we have a trilateral commission between Pakistan, Afghanistan and the United States to share intelligence along the border regions.

And I was very upset when I was told this morning. The level of cooperation between the United States and Pakistan is very great, it's total sharing of information. Local commanders take it difficult for top leaders like President Bush and President Musharraf. BLITZER: But if there's actionable intelligence that perhaps Osama bin Laden or one of his top lieutenants, Ayman al Zawahiri, may be moving, sometimes they have to move quickly in order to make sure they get that done.

What would be so bad if the U.S. were to move forces?

KASURI: No, it wouldn't be bad. It's a question of principle. You allow somebody to enter one day. It's best to let your friends know where the limits are.

It is bad. All they have to do was to tell Pakistani army. They've got hotlines. And they trust each other. Either you say that they don't trust? Then the relationship changes. We frankly built a relationship of trust. All they had to do was pick up the phone, tell the local commander that this is happening. We're willing to coordinate on our side, you do it on yours.

BLITZER: Have you raised your concerns with the Bush administration?

KASURI: Of course I have no doubt because I was just told when I was coming here that the local military commander or our spokesman of the ISPR, Inter Service Public Relations, has protested. And I hope that the Americans will regret the incident.

BLITZER: What will be the impact on the U.S./Pakistani relationship if these reports are true, that U.S. forces have moved across the border into Pakistan?

KASURI: As I said moved is a dramatic word. I'm sure they're not really moved. The reports are that they ventured into our territory and then when we ask then, they will say, "Oh, we made a mistake." But if you make mistakes too often, you create an impression that you're doing it deliberately.

MATTHEWS: The hunt for Osama bin Laden. How close is Pakistan and the United States and others in capturing bin Laden?

KASURI: Well, as far as bin Laden's concerned, I'll be very truthful with you. Until about a year ago when somebody asked me -- and I used to say and I'm on record having said, as is President Musharraf, that maybe we thought he was dead.

Until there were these tapes produced and the American voice analysts said that no, those look like authentic. The conventional wisdom then was that he could be on the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

BLITZER: You believe he is alive and he's somewhere along the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan?

KASURI: Well, I spoke to the president some time ago...

BLITZER: President Musharraf?

KASURI: Yes. And the impression -- he himself said -- I used to think he was not alive, but now he probably thinks that he is alive.

BLITZER: Switching gears now, the new government in India. India is a nuclear power; Pakistan's a nuclear power. You have a dispute over Kashmir. There had been some progress in recent months with the previous government.

What about the new government? Are you confident this new government in India can continue on the peace process with Pakistan?

KASURI: Well, I think it would require political leadership, which was exhibited in the past by former Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Musharraf. It should be easier, actually, for them to do.

We've got a calendar of events which would have led to foreign ministers' meeting in August. I hope that nothing happens to disturb that.

BLITZER: So you're still planning on meeting with the new foreign minister of India in August?

KASURI: Yes, I am. And I've done something else.

Once it became clear that the former government had lost, I rang Delhi, and I sent a message to Prime Minister Vajpayee through Mr. Brajesh Misra, the national security adviser, and I said it was my fervent hope that the progress that had been made during his tenure would continue and that the BNP opposition would not try and create hurdles for the Congress Party if it wished to proceed along that path.

And Mr. Misra said, no, the former prime minister was committed to it. I don't know who the new leader of the opposition is going to be. But I do hope that the Congress Party will pick up the threads from where we left.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And late today the Pentagon issued a statement regarding the incursion into Pakistan by U.S. troops. It says, and I'm quoting now, "The border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan can be hard to determine. U.S. troops understand they are not to cross into Pakistani territory. If they do cross, it is unintentional."

The deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage, has also now weighed in on the controversy in an interview with Zain Verjee of CNN International.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ARMITAGE, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: If true, it would be unhelpful. I'm sure it was an accident and we'll take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLITZER: This programming note: you can see more of my interview with the Pakistani foreign minister, Khurshid Kasuri. That will be on "LATE EDITION" this Sunday, noon eastern.

A bleak landscape. Israel ends its raid on Rafah. Although a pullout is under way, find out why Israel says the military offensive isn't over yet.

Terror scare. The FBI puts American law enforcement agents on alert. But what are they looking for? And should you be concerned?

Plus this...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We deem it as our responsibility to make sure we have good, successful and secure safe games.

BLITZER: Guarding the games. Is Greece prepared for a possible terrorist strike at the Olympic games in Athens? That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

Israeli troops and tanks have pulled back to the outskirts of Rafah refugee camp after four days of deadly clashes. For many Palestinians, all that's left is rubble. But the Israelis say the offensive, which followed the deaths of 13 soldiers, is not over.

CNN's Matthew Chance is in Rafah and has this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Another funeral, another outpouring of grief and fury. There will be many more here.

The people of Rafah are burying their dead in anger. Palestinian officials say at least 40 have been killed and that civilians and children are among them. At this makeshift morgue, we found 17 bodies still to be buried. Is it a grim backlog in a city that's been under siege.

Under international pressure, Israel's bulldozers and tanks are finally moving back. Israel says this was an operation to smash tunnels used by Palestinian militants to smuggle in weapons. But military officials admit none of the tunnels have so far been found. They must come back, they say.

(on camera): Israel says this isn't a pullout, just a redeployment of its forces, that its operations in the Rafah refugee camp are far from over. But the tight military curfew that's been in post here has been lifted in some areas. And many residents of Rafah are taking the opportunity to leave.

(voice-over): Like their neighbors, the Eliad (ph) family has been here since 1948. Now they're refugees once more. "The bulldozers will be back," Ibrahim (ph) tells me. "So we must leave now, while we can."

Some in Israel are calling for all these houses to go. Israeli soldiers patrolling the Egyptian border and killed here in the past will be much safer, they say. But many here believe this will bring nothing but despair, not security for Israel, nor its troops.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: That report from CNN's Matthew Chance in Gaza.

Here in the United States, officials have been under -- the United States, that is, has been under an elevated threat level for almost three years now. That's the terror threat level. On top of that, there are now almost daily scares and other warnings in cities across the country.

Tom Foreman once again back with us to take a look at what's behind this and the possible impact.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, all along the East Coast today, where millions of people ride trains every day, railway security was under scrutiny in the wake of a series of apparent new terrorist threats. The problem is it now appears that these new concerns, if they prove to be legitimate at all, have nothing to do with terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): Amtrak stopped two of its high-speed Acela trains and searched them with bomb dogs after a threat was called in to Baltimore police. But Amtrak says it was a routine precaution, the same as it has exercised for years. FBI agents and police in Philadelphia are examining a motion detection device found on tracks there.

But government and railway officials confirm such devices are often used by train companies and no link to terrorism is apparent. But add to all that a new FBI warning for people to watch out for suicide bombers and the public is hearing a lot of scary talk.

JIM WALSH, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: In this day and age, there's no public official or government that wants to be caught in the situation that following a terrorist attack, it was found out that they didn't issue a communication or they didn't tell the folks they were supposed to tell about it. And so what we have now is a flood of information. Every little scrap of information that suggests even mildly that there might be a threat, that's sort of put out there. And I think that's a mistake.

FOREMAN: There are real costs to the fear. The New York Transit Authority is considering banning all photography on subways, buses and trains, trying to keep terrorists from collecting information on potential targets.

The Department of Homeland Security wants new security measures for railways, including the installation of see-through trash cans which make it harder to hide bombs. Amtrak says replacing all of its trash cans could cost $500,000. And there is the mental cost.

RETIRED LT. GEN. DANIEL CHRISTMAN, U.S. ARMY: You cannot, it seems to me, keep a civil population or any military unit in a constant state of heightened readiness before that unit or that population simply turns itself off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: Every expert I talked to today is worried about just that, that people are beginning to be told to worry so much that they'll just start giving up on it. There are legitimate fears, they say. We should listen to official warnings, but not get caught up in every single story about a package left behind somewhere.

After all, Philadelphia transit people say, every single day, five cell phones get left on their trains and buses and they have to collect them.

BLITZER: It almost becomes like background music after a while. Thanks very much, Tom Foreman, for that report. Good advice.

Will Greece be ready to secure the Olympic Games? That's the question on the minds of spectators and athletes alike. Up next, I'll ask the Greek prime minister.

Also, Bill Clinton on tour. Will the former president's new book overshadow Democratic hopeful John Kerry? Carlos Watson joins me live for "The Inside Edge."

And later, alligators and automobiles, don't ever mix the two. We'll explain.

First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): A deadly bomb attack in Northeastern Bangladesh. Police and witnesses say two people were killed and dozens more were wounded in the blast outside a Muslim shrine. Among the wounded is the newly appointed British ambassador, a Bangladeshi- born Briton. Doctors say his wounds are not serious.

Shiites spill into the streets of Beirut. More than half-a- million Shiite Muslims and Hezbollah members marched through the Lebanese capital today to protest U.S. attacks on holy shrines in Iraq. The demonstration came in response to last week's call for protest by Hezbollah's secretary-general.

A meeting of the minds in Moscow. Russia and the European Union have signed a protocol confirming E.U. support for Russia's inclusion in the World Trade organization. E.U. leaders are in Moscow for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

And royal wedding fever in Madrid. Celebrations have begun as a prelude to the marriage of Spain's Prince Felipe tomorrow to former TV news anchor Letizia Ortiz. The royal family hosted a banquet tonight for hundreds of guests from around the world. The ceremony will be the first royal wedding in Madrid in almost a century.

And that's our look around the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: As we reported at the top of this show, there's some new information emerging right now about the deaths of detainees in Iraq.

Once again, our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, joining us with this information -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you can imagine, in the wake of the prison abuse scandal, lots of questions about prisoners both in Iraq and Afghanistan that may have died while in U.S. custody.

And in a background briefing just a short time ago, the Pentagon trying to put some context on that, revealed that of 37 cases in which prisoners have died while in U.S. custody, they have essentially nine open investigations, of which eight are possible homicides. Six of those cases are in Iraq, three in Afghanistan. These are cases in which troops may be subject to some sort of criminal investigation for wrongdoing for causing the deaths of these detainees.

Many of the cases were ruled natural causes and had already been reported. But according to the statistics provided to the Pentagon to us just this afternoon, they now believe they may have as many as eight cases in which misconduct or mistreatment by U.S. troops may have resulted in the deaths of Iraqis or detainees in Afghanistan. Again, these are ongoing investigations, so nobody has been charged yet in these cases.

BLITZER: Of those six in Iraq, would they be at the Abu Ghraib prison, Jamie?

MCINTYRE: We're told that two of those deaths were the Abu Ghraib prison. What's not clear is, one was apparently a case of typhoid or what is believed to be typhoid. That's still awaiting confirmation. That might end up being a natural cause death. But two of the cases they're investigating are at Abu Ghraib.

BLITZER: All right, Jamie McIntyre will be following this story for us. Thanks, Jamie, very much.

It is exactly 12 weeks until the Olympic flag rises over Athens, Greece, for the beginning of the 2004 Summer Games. And foremost in the minds of organizers are concerns over the safety and security of the athletes and the visitors. The price for security so far is $1.2 billion. And when the Games open, 70,000 security personnel will be on duty.

Earlier, I spoke with the Greek prime minister, Costas Karamanlis, about how he thinks the preparations are going.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Prime minister, thanks very much for joining us. Welcome to Washington. Welcome to the United States.

COSTAS KARAMANLIS, GREEK PRIME MINISTER: Thank you very much, Mr. Blitzer.

BLITZER: Some U.S. officials who have gone to Athens, some members of Congress have come back, said on my program, they're not really concerned about the preparations for the terror, but they're concerned that some of the venues, some of the structures are not yet complete and as a result the security personnel can't do some of the advanced preparation that they would normally like to do to prepare for this Games.

KARAMANLIS: Well, this is not the case anymore. It is true that in some cases we had a late start, a slow start years ago.

But now, during the previous administration, at least, and of course after the March elections and our taking office, we are speeding up the process. All the venues are prepared, or at least some of them which are the latest to be ready will be in mid to late June.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Wait a second. Everything will be ready to go by mid to late June?

KARAMANLIS: That's right.

So we think that there is time enough not only for security to take over, but also we have to time to exercise for any scenario.

BLITZER: Because some of the pictures that we've seen, videotape as recently as right now, shows that some of these construction sites seem to be more than a month away, let's say, from completion.

KARAMANLIS: Well, I would say that 90 percent (UNINTELLIGIBLE) There are some parts which remain. We're speeding up the pace of work on that. And we feel very confident that everything will be in place in time.

BLITZER: There are some reports out there -- and you can tell us if this is true -- that you have advised the delegations, the Olympic teams from the United States, Britain and Israel, if they win, not to run around with their flags and to demonstrate and to be exuberant fans, as they normally would be out of concern for security.

KARAMANLIS: Well, Mr. Blitzer, I would say that this is not true.

In the sense that we invite everybody to participate, we'd be very happy to receive all the teams from all the countries and, of course, all the spectators and participants. And we invite everybody to jubilate very much if they get their medals, which we strongly support they will.

BLITZER: And, as far as you know, the International Olympic Committee, no one is advising the American delegation or the British delegation or the Israeli delegation and their fans not to bring their flags or anything like that?

KARAMANLIS: The IOC is very strongly confiding that we will have very successful Games. And I think we have been cooperating with them very good throughout these years. And they look forward to a successful Games as well.

BLITZER: You know, obviously, the whole world will be riveted on Athens, Greece. This puts an enormous amount of pressure on you and your government.

KARAMANLIS: May I look at it from another point of view? That's the golden opportunity for Greece to present its face, its image, its modern identity to the world. And this is something which we are certainly making every effort to take advantage of.

BLITZER: What about -- let's switch gears a little bit and talk about Iraq right now. The Greece -- a key member of NATO right now, where does Greece stand as far as the transfer of sovereignty in Iraq June 30 to some sort of Iraqi interim government still to be defined? Where does Greece stand? I assume this was a subject that came up when you met with the president.

KARAMANLIS: We did discuss it over.

And we do very strongly support to keep the schedule of transition of power, every effort to fully democratize and normalize Iraq. And we are very actively participating in the effort to reconstruct Iraq. Approximately, $10 billion on part of Greece have ether been already given or are earmarked in the selection.

BLITZER: Is Greece ready to support NATO involvement, direct NATO involvement in Iraq, along the lines of the way NATO is operating in Afghanistan?

KARAMANLIS: Well, what I said already is that we want to see the speediest process of transition, democracy and reconstruction. And what we support is above all that every effort from now on will be as much as possible under the auspices of the United Nations. What direct expressions we take after that step, we're open to discussion.

BLITZER: On that note, we'll say thank you to the prime minister of Greece. Good luck to you, to everyone in Greece. We're all looking forward to the Olympic Games.

KARAMANLIS: Thank you very much, Mr. Blitzer.

BLITZER: Costas Karamanlis, the Greek prime minister speaking with me earlier.

Let's go back to Kelli Arena. She's getting more information now on the prison abuse scandal.

What have you learned, Kelli?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the Justice Department just put out a statement saying that it has opened an investigation regarding a civilian contractor in Iraq. Justice said that it received a referral from the Department of Defense yesterday.

In the statement, Justice would only say, "We remain committed to taking all appropriate action within our jurisdiction regarding allegations of mistreatment to Iraqi prisoners." But Justice does not give any details. It doesn't name the civilian. It doesn't say if this person was involved in the Abu Ghraib allegations of wrongdoing. It just says a civilian contractor. We're on it. If we find out any more, we'll let you know, but right now, Justice officials saying no further comment at this time.

BLITZER: Another twist in this escalating scandal.

Thanks very much, Kelli, for that.

ARENA: You're welcome.

BLITZER: We'll get back to you.

Ahead, why presidential candidate John Kerry may delay accepting the Democratic nomination. Plus, some potentially big political summer stories. Our Carlos Watson standing by to join us with "The Inside Edge."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

CNN has confirmed John Kerry may not accept the Democratic presidential nomination, at least officially, at his party's convention in July. Kerry may delay taking the title so that he can continue to spend freely on his campaign.

It's time now for "The Inside Edge" with Carlos Watson. Our political analyst tells us about what's going on.

This is going to be a summer a lot of people getting ready for the Olympics, other activities. How does that fit into politics?

CARLOS WATSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, a lot is going on. And more people have paid attention to politics this spring than the past; 64 percent of the public says they're paying a lot of attention to the presidential race. Four years ago, only 32 percent.

But I think we're about to hit a lull here, Wolf. I think with summer coming, with high school and college graduation, people getting ready to take those Memorial Day trips, I think there will be a quiet period here for several weeks. And that could be good news for the president. It could be bad news. It could be good news because it gives him a chance underneath the radar maybe to fix some issues in Iraq. it could be bad news because things get frozen in place. And right now, we know that he's down by some five points in a lot of the polls. We know that he's giving a big speech, though, on Monday. And the president, like a lot of people, are thinking this may be the last chance to connect with voters when they're really paying attention for another several weeks. So I don't think it's any accident this Monday he's giving a pretty big speech.

BLITZER: Well, some people would argue that they're not really paying much attention even right now, but they will at some point. But what will be some of the big stories we should be looking out for this summer?

WATSON: Three stand out to me.

First and foremost, Bill Clinton's book tour. I think this could be a big opportunity for John Kerry.

BLITZER: That comes out at the end of June.

WATSON: Comes out at the end of June.

And three things I would look at. One, does President Clinton take the opportunity to really make the case on behalf of John Kerry's candidacy? No one sells an audience like Bill Clinton, at least a Democratic audience. And there's a big opportunity. Two, does he take this opportunity in order to make the case against President Bush? You particularly see the former President Clinton do that on issues of taxes and the deficit.

Three and finally on terms of what Bill Clinton could do here, will he once again rebrand the Democratic Party as the party of peace and prosperity and once again try to remind people this is a different Democratic Party? So I think that's one of the big stories.

Two other big stories, between now and June 30, the handover to Iraq, expectation of what's gone on in terms of prisoner abuse, in terms of the additional fighting, in terms of the beheading, has been so lowered, believe it or not, these 45 days may offer President Bush a chance to actually right the ship and get policy right. Can you imagine how different things would be if we wake up in early July and there's a lot less fighting, things seem to be stabilized the , we hand over some amount of power? It would be pretty powerful.

BLITZER: I was going to say, are there some other international stories out there that we should be paying attention to as well?

WATSON: There is.

Although we're paying attention to our own election, a couple big elections have happened. Spain two months ago, they threw out an incumbent. A couple weeks ago in India, they threw out an incumbent. Stay tuned to see what happens in Japan in July. If they also throw out an incumbent, we are going to begin to see a global phenomenon happen of anti-incumbency. And, of course, we have got our own election here in America in November and early next we could see one in the U.K.

If you see a massive turnover of world leadership, not only will (AUDIO GAP) leaders all around the world.

BLITZER: That could make Karl Rove nervous to hear that kind of speculation. Carlos, thanks very much.

WATSON: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, one powerful bite caught on tape.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in our "Web Question of the Day." Take a look at this. Remember, though, it's not a scientific poll. Pretty evenly split.

Our picture of the day, a 7-foot alligator found itself under the car in a neighborhood in Tampa Bay. The owner videotaped a state wildlife worker as he trapped the gator and the gator took a bite out of the car's bumper.

A reminder, "LATE EDITION" Sunday, the last word in Sunday talk, airs noon Eastern. Among my guests this Sunday, the Iraqi Governing Council member Ahmad Chalabi.

Until then, thanks very much for joining us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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