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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Kobe Accuser May Drop Out; Officials Suspect al Qaeda Operatives in U.S.
Aired August 04, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST: Happening now, contact from al Qaeda. New information the terror organization has reached inside the United States. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF (voice-over): Kobe Bryant bombshell. Will his accuser withdraw from the case? What else may she have in mind?
Teacher sex. She's out of prison, and her former student has grown up. What happens now?
Davenport duel. Three blocks, and polls apart.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've come here for a great discussion about America's future, if he were really willing to just turn the corner. And...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We were close in Iowa last time. Not this time; we're going to carry it.
WOODRUFF: Showdown with Saddam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they weak (ph)? And they caught him (ph). I dropped him (ph). I was like, "I'm not going to let him go.
WOODRUFF: We'll hear from the man who pulled Saddam Hussein out of his hole.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, August 04, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Hello, I'm Judy Woodruff in Washington. Wolf is off today.
There is a major new worry for prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case, just three and a half weeks before the NBA star is scheduled to go on trial. CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman is standing by at CNN Center in Atlanta.
Hi, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy. And that worry is this. Is their star witness about to drop out of the case? The personal attorney for the 20-year-old accuser says she may not go forward with the criminal trial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): More than 13 months after the night of the alleged crime, after hundreds of hours of pretrial hearings, it has now come to the point where CNN has been told the Kobe Bryant criminal trial might not occur.
One of the personal attorneys of the alleged victim tells CNN it is "up in the air" whether she will go ahead with the criminal case against the basketball star, saying she has "lost faith in the court system."
The attorney says a civil suit against Bryant is now an active possibility.
John Clune's comments come after reporters gained access to what were secret transcripts in the case, describing aspects of the woman's sexual history. On three occasions the court has made errors, resulting in confidential information about the woman being made public.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, COLORADO TRIAL ATTORNEY: It's a little unfortunate that they're going to blame the judge and the court for the problems of this case. The judge, indeed, made mistakes, but the judge did not make up the facts which were so damning to the prosecution in this matter.
TUCHMAN: The district attorney could pursue the case, even if the woman did not want it to happen. But practically, it would be very difficult.
A spokeswoman for the district attorney does say, "We have no indications that this trial will not proceed forward after conversations with Mr. Clune and the victim."
Clune does say that it's inappropriate to say she is definitely out, but adds a decision has to be made within days, with the trial scheduled to start in just over three weeks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The attorney does say the woman strongly stands by her charge that she was raped by the Los Angeles Lakers star, but she just doesn't feel like she can get a fair shake from the Eagle County criminal court.
Judy, back to you.
WOODRUFF: All right. Gary Tuchman, thank you very much.
Later this hour, we'll talk about today's developments in the Bryant case with a criminal defense attorney and with CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. There are new developments in the front -- on the terror front. While Americans are on alert, investigators are urgently trying to piece together intelligence about a plot. Now there is word that al Qaeda has recently communicated with people in this country.
Let's turn quickly to our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, two senior U.S. government sources tell CNN that intelligence found in Pakistan shows evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
The information is important, because it lends credibility to the belief that al Qaeda may have operatives in place in the United States.
Now the U.S. officials would not characterize the communication, but Pakistani officials are offering more details, which you'll hear from Ash-har Quraishi, who's standing by in Pakistan.
U.S. sources also say that there is other information from Pakistan that has led to several investigations in the United States centered on whether there are any individuals or cells plotting an attack in the U.S.
Now this news comes on top of word from the Bush administration that there was a separate stream of intelligence indicating al Qaeda's intent to hit financial targets and that corroborated the information gathered in Pakistan.
There was a lot of criticism about that information that, though it was very detailed, was old and therefore not very useful. This latest information that it was -- there was a separate stream of information seems to add more relevance to that, as well, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Fascinating, all these pieces and you have to watch closely to keep up, in fact...
ARENA: It's true.
WOODRUFF: ... with all the pieces that have come up this week. Kelli, thank you very much.
So question: does al Qaeda have operatives in America waiting to strike? Investigators are focusing on recent arrests, as you just heard, in Pakistan. Let's go live now to CNN's Ash-har Quraishi in Islamabad.
Hello, Ash-har.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy.
Well, the breakthrough in this information appears to have come with the arrest of a man named Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan. Now Khan is being described as an al Qaeda computers expert who was arrested in Lahore, in the Eastern city of Lahore here in Pakistan back on July 13.
Officials are telling us that Khan has been in contact with individuals in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QURAISHI (voice-over): Highly placed Pakistan intelligence sources tell CNN that 25-year-old computer expert Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, arrested last month, has been in recent contact with six al Qaeda operatives in the United States.
U.S. sources will only confirm that there may have been contacts from suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan to one or more individuals in the U.S. Information gleaned from Khan's communications in part led to heightened alerts in the United States over the past few days.
According to our sources, Khan had also been in regular contact with a high level al Qaeda operative in the United Kingdom. U.K. sources have not confirmed this, but it was this information, say Pakistani intelligence sources, that led to the arrests of about a dozen suspected terrorists in Britain on Tuesday.
Intelligence sources say Khan is providing startling information about al Qaeda activities and global communications.
SHEIKH RASHID, PAKISTANI INFORMATION MINISTER: I think it's a significant catch (ph), some youngster, some government people, well- educated, well-trained people are being ignored. They are not in the pictures. But their operation is something very, very important and extraordinary. He is among those.
So that's why I think his arrest is very important.
QURAISHI: Al Qaeda Internet chat forums in recent weeks (AUDIO GAP).
JAMAL ISMAIL, ABU GHABI TELEVISION: These were signs (AUDIO GAP)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
WOODRUFF: ... Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Questions (AUDIO GAP). I'll speak with a top U.S. official who is at Guantanamo.
And...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, "Don't kill me. I'll show you where Saddam is."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: The dramatic story of Saddam Hussein's capture, from the man who pulled Saddam out of his hole.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODRUFF: A federal judge has refused to interfere with military tribunals that are considering the possible release of terror suspects held at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Critics of those tribunals say decisions on the detainees should be made in civilian courts instead.
The secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, is at Guantanamo Bay now. He's joining us to talk about the detainees.
Secretary England, before I ask you about their legal rights, I want to ask you about some charges being made by three Britons who were released from Guantanamo Bay. They are saying that they were interrogated at gunpoint. They were saying they were photographed naked. Are any of these allegations true?
GORDON ENGLAND, SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: Judy, not that I know of, and I don't believe they are true. We had the Navy inspector general here many months ago, did a thorough investigation of this facility, found out it was being conducted at very, very high standards.
Also, the International Committee of the Red Cross is here regularly. I mean, they're here over long stretches. They meet privately with prisoners. I can't imagine that someone would not have reported this to the ICRC.
Also, of course, we have people here that they could have reported this to. So none of this has ever been reported. So no, I don't believe it's true.
And I would just remind people this is a war. And it's a war of words and propaganda. So I would just be very cautious in taking that at face value for people who were just released from Guantanamo.
WOODRUFF: Navy Secretary Gordon England, let me ask you now about these tribunals, so-called administrative hearings that are being held for these prisoners. Some people are asking whether this is just a way of circumventing the Supreme Court ruling that came down this summer that required that these prisoners have legal representation.
ENGLAND: Well, the Supreme Court didn't require that. It gave them a right to that and can file and perhaps go to federal court. I guess they can.
On the other hand, this is an administrative response to the Supreme Court. And Justice O'Connor specifically stated that an administrative response could likely meet the Supreme Court standard.
So if you -- if you look at Article 5 of the Geneva Convention, dealing with prisoners of war, we incorporate that in what we call AR 190-8, an Army regulation. Now these are not prisoners of war because these individuals have never gone to war with the United States. They certainly haven't signed up to the Geneva Convention. I mean, this is a different category.
So we are using those same procedures for determination of enemy combatants standard. And in fact, we're going beyond those standards, because we're giving the detainees an opportunity to appear in person.
So in my judgment, this is an administrative process to meet what the Supreme Court has indicated would be a reasonable approach and keep in mind there's other administrative ways to satisfy legal requirements. I mean, this country, a lot of our immigration cases are handled administratively, patrol -- parole boards.
Lots of ways that we satisfy legal requirements through administrative actions. And that's what this is. Because there's no lawyer involved doesn't mean it's not a fair process.
WOODRUFF: All right. The secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, talking to us from Guantanamo Bay. We thank you very much.
ENGLAND: Thank you. Good being with you, Judy.
WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.
ENGLAND: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: And now a quick check of other stories that are in the news.
In Gaza, four Palestinians were killed today in clashes with Israeli forces. Palestinian sources say the victims included three teenagers and a 9-year-old. The Israeli military says it fired at Palestinians planning to launch rockets.
A U.N. security team is going to Ethiopia to work with an African Union peacekeeping force to try to stem deadly violence in Sudan's Darfur region. The 17-month conflict has killed an estimated 30,000 people, forced one million from their homes, and left more than two million in urgent need of food and medicine.
A House Republican leader is calling for a go slow response to the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Intelligence Committee Chairman Porter Goss says lawmakers, quote, "Cannot afford to make changes blindly or in unnecessary haste."
But the panel's top Democrat, Congresswoman Jane Harman, says the committee appears to be moving in reverse by holding hearings instead of acting on overhaul bills already introduced.
Airlines are being warned to stop delays at Chicago's O'Hare Airport by cutting flights, or the FAA will do it for them. The FAA wants arrivals to be limited to no more than 86 per hour, from a range that now peaks as high as 101 an hour.
The FAA says delays at O'Hare trigger delays at other airports across the country.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Well, you probably remember the story of Mary Kay Letourneau. She's the teacher convicted of rape in 1997 after having a sexual relationship with a then 13-year-old student.
Now she has been released from prison. CNN's Kimberly Osias is covering the story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vili Fualaau was a sixth grader from a broken home. Mary Kay Letourneau was his teacher, a married mother of four, a congressman's daughter who, by many accounts, defied sensibilities and crossed what many considered sacred boundaries.
GREG OLSEN, AUTHOR: So many people see this as a -- a love story and the want to see them together. I do want to remind people that he was 12 and 13 years old when this thing happened, and his life has been profoundly impacted by what she did.
OSIAS: Pregnant by Fualaau, Mary Kay Letourneau pleaded guilty in August of 1997 to two counts of child rape. She begged a judge to give her a second chance.
MARY KAY LETOURNEAU, CONVICTED OF RAPE: Your honor, I did something that I have no right to do, morally or legally. It was wrong, and I am sorry. I give you my word that it will not happen again. Please help me. Help us. Help us all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mary Letourneau. Mary, do you have any comments?
OSAIAS: Right after her release following five months in jail, she defied a court order by getting together with Fualaau. The pair was spotted having sex in a van with $6,000 in their possession.
Letourneau landed back in jail, pregnant with their second child.
Now, after spending more than seven years in prison, Letourneau is starting again.
OLSEN: Beyond a book, beyond a movie, beyond anything like that, she's got to focus on what good she can do for the world. And maybe she'll try something like the Mothers Behind Bars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: That was Kimberly Osias, reporting from Seattle.
Mary Kay Letourneau is required to register as a sex offender, and she is barred from contacting Vili Fualaau.
We are joined now by CNN's Brian Todd, who is also following this case -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, we have a new development in the case, and this comes just hours since Mary Kay Letourneau's release. It comes on behalf of her official victim, who is now a young man.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Vili Fualaau is 21 years old, a father since the age of 14, unemployed, didn't finish high school, by most accounts, rootless. He also has legal status as Mary Kay Letourneau's victim.
But in a broader sense, is he really a victim?
VILI FUALAAU, MARY KAY LETOURNEAU'S VICTIM: I'm kind of nervous. I don't know what my feelings are right now. But I know I do love her.
TODD: Fualaau is challenging a court order barring contact between him and Letourneau. He's the only person involved in the case who has the right to challenge the no contact order.
The King County prosecutor's office tells CNN it's reviewing the request and will decide soon whether to contest it. Superior Court Judge Linda Lau, who issued the order, will ultimately rule. Judge Lau may have to consider whether Fualaau is still being manipulated by the woman he had a sexual relationship with at age 13.
OLSEN: There were tapes and letters and things smuggled out of prison where she was pretty much telling him what to do. But they've been quiet, and they've been apart.
TODD: Author Greg Olsen has been following the case from the beginning. He says he last met with Fualaau three weeks ago and found him surprisingly mature and well balanced. That alone may be Fualaau's signature accomplishment, considering his past.
Even before his relationship with Letourneau, Fualaau came from a broken home, raised by a single mother, an abusive father in prison. Since the relationship...
OLSEN: There's been drug problems. There have been depression. There's been violence. There -- he was arrested for being in a stolen car at one point and, I mean, everything bad that could happen to a teenage boy, which is what he was at the time, happened to him.
TODD: The 7- and 5-year-old girls Fualaau fathered with Letourneau have been in the custody of Fualaau's mother. According to Greg Olsen, Fualaau lives with his mother and the children only part time, otherwise staying with family friends.
Fualaau and his mother once tried to sue the school district and police for negligence in the Letourneau affair, and lost. Now if Vili Fualaau and Mary Kay Letourneau are indeed serious about getting back together, the family faces a possible internal legal battle over custody of the two girls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: By most accounts, those two girls have thrived in the care of Vili Fualaau's mother, Soona. In an earlier interview with author Greg Olsen, Fualaau's mother gave indications that she did not want to give up custody of those children.
So Judy, if Vili Fualaau and Mary Kay Letourneau get back together, if they decide they want custody of those two kids, they're potentially facing another very odd legal twist in this case.
WOODRUFF: Such a disturbing case. Brian, thank you very much.
Well, the sexual assault case against pro basketball superstar is in jeopardy today, following word that the alleged victim may withdraw from the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF (voice-over): Just three and a half weeks before Kobe Bryant is scheduled to go on trial for allegedly assaulting a Colorado resort worker, prosecutors are in danger of losing their main witness.
Lawyers for the resort worker say mistakes by court officials have made it difficult for her to continue her participation in the case. They cite the release of transcripts from a closed-door hearing regarding the woman's sexual conduct and the release of the woman's name.
The woman's lawyer, John Clune, says his client has lost faith in the court system, making it, quote, "difficult," end quote, for her to proceed.
At least one observer doubts that's the real reason. Former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman thinks the woman's lawyers have concluded the criminal case is doomed.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Any competent attorney, and John Clune and Lin Wood are certainly competent attorneys, can see the writing on the wall. There is very little chance that the prosecution can possibly prevail in this case given the facts as we know them right now.
WOODRUFF: The woman's attorneys say if their client does withdraw from the criminal case, she may opt instead for a civil suit against Bryant. They say she'll make a decision in the next few days. Prosecutors say they have been in constant contact with the woman and still anticipate her continued cooperation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Joining us now to talk about the potential impact of today's developments, defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt, she's in Denver, and CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, he is in New York. Jeffrey Toobin, to you first. Are there any circumstances under which you can envision this case going ahead if the victim herself is not a willing participant?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN ANALYST: No, as a practical matter I think that is -- just sampling couldn't happen. Now as a legal matter, you remember, this case is brought by the state of Colorado. She is not the plaintiff. She is not -- she has no legal status as a person initiating the case, but as a practical matter I don't know how a prosecutor can bring a sexual assault case when the victim of the alleged crime refuses to come in to be prepared, shows up only when subpoenaed, it seems as a practical matter doomed if she doesn't want to participate.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, is there any way the prosecution can compel the alleged victim to cooperate here?
JERALYN MERRITT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, as Jeffrey said, the prosecution can certainly subpoena her and put her on the witness stand but they're so unlikely to do that, because they're not going to win their case with an uncooperative witness.
So I would assume that if her lawyers decide that she does not want to continue with the criminal case, that this gives the prosecution the perfect out to drop the charges and not go through a trial where the likelihood at this point seems they would lose.
WOODRUFF: Jeff, is there anything the alleged victim can do about the mistakes that have been made in this case: releasing her name, releasing publicly the transcripts that include this questionable information about whether there was another sexual partner, and so forth?
TOOBIN: There's really no remedy, but I think it's worth mentioning, Judy, that the name has been public in the sense that people who are following the case know it for quite some time. And it has not been repeated. So I don't think the damage to her of the name has been quite as significant as her lawyers make it seem.
You know, we know the name, we're not reporting it, no network is reporting it, no respectable newspaper is reporting it, the only time the name has appeared in public as far as I know is one extremely low- rent supermarket tabloid. So even though this mistake has been made, the harm to this woman of the name disclosure I think is actually fairly modest.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, what about -- would you agree with that?
MERRITT: Yes, I would agree with that. And the name was initially put on the Internet. Pictures of her were put on the Internet. Everyone in Eagle knows who she is. Everyone in the media knows who she is. So I don't think the release of the name is that big of a deal.
I think what this is really about is the transcript that was released the other day in which the defense says they have an expert who is going to testify that the expert believes she had sex after the sex with Kobe, but before she got to the hospital. That makes -- if the jury buys that, that really puts this case in trouble.
TOOBIN: And Judy, what's especially so significant about the disclosure in the transcript is that the facts are bad enough, but this woman has denied having sex at the time that the evidence apparently indicates that she did. So it potentially makes her look like a liar which -- I don't know how you bring a case where you have scientific evidence apparently showing that the main witness is not telling the truth.
WOODRUFF: So you are saying the defense may not have any case, may not -- I'm sorry, that the prosecution may not have any case here just by virtue that that's in there.
TOOBIN: I think we need to keep an open mind. There may be evidence that contradicts it. But if that evidence is all that exists, the prosecution essentially has no case that any rational jury would convict on.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, what about the notion of their going ahead with a civil suit rather-- and just dropping the criminal? What are the prospects for a civil case here?
MERRITT: Well, I think that's where the case should have been in the first place. The advantage to Kobe if the case goes civil, of course, is that he no longer risks the possibility of going to jail. The advantage to the accuser if the case goes civil is that she has a different standard of proof.
The burden of proof would be what we call "preponderance of the evidence," which is only, "is it more likely than not that she was sexually assaulted?" She no longer has to have this proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So there's advantages to each of them as the case goes civil.
And, of course, Kobe may want to settle just as a nuisance value to get on with his life and because he has plenty of money.
TOOBIN: But I don't think we should think that there is anything so honorable about filing a civil suit. I mean, if you honestly believe that Kobe Bryant is a sex offender, is a rapist, the woman, she doesn't participate in a case that may take him off the streets but she does participate in a case that may make her some money?
And, by the way, in a civil case, she's guaranteed to have her name out in public. There would be no comparable guarantees of anonymity. So I think she really opens herself up to being seen as money-grubbing if this is the route she goes.
MERRITT: Unless she already has a settlement-unless she's already arranged fro a settlement. I don't know if she has or not. We don't know whether her lawyers have already talked to Kobe's lawyers and perhaps they've even discussed a civil case. Also, now that Lin Wood is in the case I think we have to look beyond a civil case against Kobe and think about is Lin Wood considering any kind of a defamation or slander or libel lawsuit against any of the media outlets or anyone else because of what they've said about her.
WOODRUFF: What about that, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: Well I think that's a real long shot. I haven't heard anything about her that is not supported in the record. I mean, she's had a rough go of it in the press but most things seem supported by what we've seen in court so I think the key to any defamation case for starters is proving that something is false and that's by no means clear to me at this point.
MERRITT: I'll agree with that, Jeffrey, but you know, I haven't heard every single television show and I haven't seen every single news report. But I imagine that Lin Wood has been going over them, getting them on LexisNexis and seeing everything that's ever been written about her.
WOODRUFF: Alright. We're going to leave it there. Jeralyn Merritt is a defense attorney in Denver and everybody knows Jeffrey Toobin is CNN's legal analyst. He is joining us from New York. Thank you both very much.
MERRITT: Thank you.
TOOBIN: So long, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Well, her husband is under arrest but the search goes on for the body of Lori Hacking. Up next, hear why this case could soon be on hold.
Also, a plea. The man responsible for last year's Staten Island Ferry crash says he's guilty. But will his punishment fit the crime.
Also ahead:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I look at him, I knew that was Saddam. From his face. That was Saddam. And I told-this is Saddam. They didn't believe me at first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Ace in the hole. Hear from the man who dug out the former dictator. But first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.
A shocking crime in Beijing, China near government headquarters. Police say a school worker with a history of mental problems attacked 15 students and at least two teachers in a kindergarten with a knife, leaving one child dead. Belgium mourns. It's a national day of mourning for victims of last week's gas pipeline explosion near Brussels. 18 people died in the blast, Belgium's worst industrial accident in almost 40 years. The cause remains under investigation.
Hot in Chile. Fists flew in the Chilean congress. Tension spilled over after a debate over pardoning political prisoners.
Deep sea discovery. Here's a rarely seen site. A goblin shark that got caught in a commercial fishing net off Australia. It is a bottom-dweller rarely encountered by humans. This shark, which was dead when pulled to the surface, will be dissected for research.
And that's our look around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODRUFF: The district attorney in Salt Lake City, Utah says he needs more time to make a decision on what charges to file against Mark Hacking. Hacking was arrested Monday in connection with the disappearance of his wife. CNN's Miguel Marquez is standing by. Hi, Miguel.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. And we expect that those charges will now be filed some time next week. 72 hours is what the district attorney has by law, but they can seek an extension and he did say to us earlier this week that he would probably seek a two or three day extension which would take him probably well into next week.
We're also learning something about Mark Hacking when he checked in here at the county jail here in Salt Lake County. He is now on suicide watch and in a mental health unit here. He has requested no visitors says a spokesperson with the county jail system here, with the sheriff's office that run's the jail system here. Only his lawyer can visit him and when he was booked he had an alias of Jonathan Long. It's not clear what the significance of that alias is to him, but he did have an alias that he did use.
Also, on the booking sheet for when he came into this jail system it listed the time of death of Lori Hacking as being 1 a.m. Monday, July 19. That's significant because there is some security cam video that has arisen in the last couple of days that shows Mark and Lori Hacking entering that convenience store around 9:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 18. Both of them go in, there's a small transaction, they leave.
Hours later, 1:18 a.m., just 18 minutes after that time of death, Mark Hacking is seen coming back into that store buying a pack of Camel Lime Twist cigarettes wearing different pants, as well, you might note. He enters alone and drives off in Lori's car.
The search for Lori's body resumes tonight in a local landfill and authorities still hope to find her body -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much. Also tonight on our justice report, a New York ferry pilot pled guilty to manslaughter following a plea agreement. Richard Smith was working on the Staten Island Ferry when his boat plowed into a dock last October, killing 11 passengers. Smith told a federal judge he had been taking pain medications and was unconscious at the time of the collision. The sentencing date will be scheduled.
Hostages freed inside Iraq, plus fierce fighting in the north. Raging urban street battles in Mosul. Why Iraqis are fighting each other. Plus, a network exclusive. Hear from the Iraqi translator who helped capture Saddam Hussein.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODRUFF: Iraqi fought Iraqi today in the northern city of Mosul.
Gunfire and explosions echoed for hours as police and insurgents battled in the streets. Officials say 12 people were killed in the fighting, another two dozen were wounded. A curfew has now been imposed on the city.
Four Jordanian hostages, independent truck drivers, have been freed in Iraq. Kidnappers calling themselves the Death Group have demanded the Jordanian businesses leave the country. Two Turkish truck drivers, held since Saturday, have also been released. Their company reportedly has pledged not to transport goods to American forces in Iraq.
A hearing continues for Private First Class Lynndie England who may face a court martial stemming from the abuse scandal at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. England was a clerk but her supervisor testified today that she often spent nights in the security area where her boyfriend worked as a guard. England is seen in one Abu Ghraib photo holding a naked prisoner by a dog leash.
Well, we've told you about the dramatic capture of Saddam Hussein, now an equally dramatic story behind the story about an Iraqi translator who actually pulled Saddam from his hiding hole in his hometown of Tikrit. The translator was interviewed by CNN's special contributor, Ron Young.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAMIR, IRAQI TRANSLATOR: On December 15th, we knew we had -- Saddam is there on that farm, hidden somewhere on that farm but we had his bodyguard. He is the one we were looking for. Because we knew he'd lead to Saddam. I was the translator for this guy.
And he started crying. He said, "Don't kill me, I'll show you where Saddam is." And we got on that farm about 8 o'clock and it was Saturday night. Forces went inside and they searched the whole farm and there is no sign of Saddam. The guy showed us exactly where the bunker is.
RON YOUNG, CNN SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR: The bodyguard showed you where the bunker was?
SAMIR: He said-pointed with his finger, he said. Dig in here. It's really hard to see it was the bunker. It was covered with dirt and what they do when Saddam would go in, they'd take leaves from the trees and they'd throw it on top of that. They'd make it look like it's been there for a long time. We dig in there and we found that hole. Little be the hole, it can't be. Especially when you think about looking for Saddam Hussein. The dictator. The one who had the power over his people. It just doesn't cross your mind-but he was there. He was there.
We heard shot and he started yelling inside. They said. Samir, come talk to him. Tell him to come out. And he started saying, "Don't shoot. Don't kill me, don't shoot." They asked me to ask him to put your hands up, we want to see your hands. I told him, "Put your hands up," and it was like one hand. And I said, "Let me see your other hand and he did this. I said, "No, both hands up."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Well, joining us now in New York with more details on Samir's role in the capture of Saddam Hussein, CNN's special contributor, Ron Young, who, of course, was a POW during the Iraq War.
Ron, how did you come in contact with this man?
YOUNG: I actually came in contact through an affiliate. Basically, we received a call that he had said something to a local station out in St. Louis and he had showed up at one of the President's fundraisers so we received it and we decided it was something we definitely wanted to jump on and pursue. No one has ever done a story about his actual being involved and what he said, what was said by Saddam. I mean, the clear facts-and this was a man who was there and he can tell the story very compellingly and it's really a great story to hear.
WOODRUFF: Fascinated he was at one of the President's fundraisers. What more are we going to see tonight when this airs later on this evening?
YOUNG: Well, basically you are going to hear who Samir is and just so you know, Samir is actually an Iraqi and he's from the town of Nasiriya and he was basically-had to leave the nation. He lived on the border between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. He came to the United States and decided he wanted to do something for the Iraqi people and he came back over to Iraq and basically is the guy who put his hands on Saddam. And that's the short order piece of the story but it is an extremely compelling story. He tells about his family, some of them being executed. It's just a terrific story.
WOODRUFF: It's riveting. What is he doing now?
YOUNG: He's back over in the Middle East. I can't say exactly where. We told him we wouldn't say. He's definitely worried about his security somewhat, but he is still working with military forces and he's still providing his services to the Iraqi people and to our government.
WOODRUFF: Sounds like he must still have family inside Iraq.
YOUNG: Absolutely.
WOODRUFF: What an incredible story. And Ron Young, who, as we mentioned, of course, was a POW during the Iraq War had this extraordinary interview. You're going to see more of that, the complete story-be sure and watch a CNN exclusive tonight, it's on PAULA ZAHN NOW starting at 8 o'clock Eastern. Ron, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
YOUNG: Thank you, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Well, the results of our Web question of the day are ahead, plus, this:
Idol auditions. Young Americans have a new chance to become the next signing sensation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODRUFF: Here's how you were weighing in on our Web question of the day. Remember, we asked you, "Do you have confidence in the Homeland Security Department to react properly to potential terrorist attacks?" 35 percent of you say "Yes," 65 percent of you say, "No." Again, this is not a scientific poll.
Well let's hear from you and read some of your e-mails. Terry is writing: "The way our government and the media handled the recent terror threat warning is a disgrace. Panicking the nation is not the common sense way of calling the people to unite to help in protecting our cities."
Meanwhile, John writes this: "Can you imagine what would happen if there was an attack on one of these buildings and it was learned that the government had this information and did not release it. It is very important that the citizens get as much information as possible about the terrorists."
Our picture of the day is the picture of a dream. Thousands of would be superstars spent hours standing in line in Cleveland, waiting for a chance to audition for "American Idol." The popular television talent show is choosing contestants for its fourth season and Cleveland is the first of eight cities where auditions are planned.
Well, from "American Idol" to covering how American votes, covering politics can have its unexpected moments for television journalists and that made for some laughs last night on David Letterman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID LETTERMAN, TELEVISION HOST: Tonight we have a brand new segment. I don't think we've ever done this before. It's called "CNN Startled News Anchor of the Night." It's a very rarified segment and it features Judy Woodruff. Watch and listen closely. The "CNN Startled News Anchor of the Night." Take a look.
WOODRUFF: Call them battleground or showdown states. They are already on top of the travel itinerary...
(HORN SOUNDS)
LETTERMAN: This just in: "HONNNNNNNK." Judy Woodruff is good- looking, isn't she?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: What can I say, I am embarrassed. A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays--he wouldn't have been frightened of that horn-at this time, 5 Eastern. Thanks for joining us. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 4, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JUDY WOODRUFF, HOST: Happening now, contact from al Qaeda. New information the terror organization has reached inside the United States. Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF (voice-over): Kobe Bryant bombshell. Will his accuser withdraw from the case? What else may she have in mind?
Teacher sex. She's out of prison, and her former student has grown up. What happens now?
Davenport duel. Three blocks, and polls apart.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've come here for a great discussion about America's future, if he were really willing to just turn the corner. And...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We were close in Iowa last time. Not this time; we're going to carry it.
WOODRUFF: Showdown with Saddam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are they weak (ph)? And they caught him (ph). I dropped him (ph). I was like, "I'm not going to let him go.
WOODRUFF: We'll hear from the man who pulled Saddam Hussein out of his hole.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Wednesday, August 04, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Hello, I'm Judy Woodruff in Washington. Wolf is off today.
There is a major new worry for prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case, just three and a half weeks before the NBA star is scheduled to go on trial. CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman is standing by at CNN Center in Atlanta.
Hi, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy. And that worry is this. Is their star witness about to drop out of the case? The personal attorney for the 20-year-old accuser says she may not go forward with the criminal trial.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): More than 13 months after the night of the alleged crime, after hundreds of hours of pretrial hearings, it has now come to the point where CNN has been told the Kobe Bryant criminal trial might not occur.
One of the personal attorneys of the alleged victim tells CNN it is "up in the air" whether she will go ahead with the criminal case against the basketball star, saying she has "lost faith in the court system."
The attorney says a civil suit against Bryant is now an active possibility.
John Clune's comments come after reporters gained access to what were secret transcripts in the case, describing aspects of the woman's sexual history. On three occasions the court has made errors, resulting in confidential information about the woman being made public.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, COLORADO TRIAL ATTORNEY: It's a little unfortunate that they're going to blame the judge and the court for the problems of this case. The judge, indeed, made mistakes, but the judge did not make up the facts which were so damning to the prosecution in this matter.
TUCHMAN: The district attorney could pursue the case, even if the woman did not want it to happen. But practically, it would be very difficult.
A spokeswoman for the district attorney does say, "We have no indications that this trial will not proceed forward after conversations with Mr. Clune and the victim."
Clune does say that it's inappropriate to say she is definitely out, but adds a decision has to be made within days, with the trial scheduled to start in just over three weeks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The attorney does say the woman strongly stands by her charge that she was raped by the Los Angeles Lakers star, but she just doesn't feel like she can get a fair shake from the Eagle County criminal court.
Judy, back to you.
WOODRUFF: All right. Gary Tuchman, thank you very much.
Later this hour, we'll talk about today's developments in the Bryant case with a criminal defense attorney and with CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. There are new developments in the front -- on the terror front. While Americans are on alert, investigators are urgently trying to piece together intelligence about a plot. Now there is word that al Qaeda has recently communicated with people in this country.
Let's turn quickly to our justice correspondent, Kelli Arena -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, two senior U.S. government sources tell CNN that intelligence found in Pakistan shows evidence that suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan contacted an individual or individuals in the United States in the past few months.
The information is important, because it lends credibility to the belief that al Qaeda may have operatives in place in the United States.
Now the U.S. officials would not characterize the communication, but Pakistani officials are offering more details, which you'll hear from Ash-har Quraishi, who's standing by in Pakistan.
U.S. sources also say that there is other information from Pakistan that has led to several investigations in the United States centered on whether there are any individuals or cells plotting an attack in the U.S.
Now this news comes on top of word from the Bush administration that there was a separate stream of intelligence indicating al Qaeda's intent to hit financial targets and that corroborated the information gathered in Pakistan.
There was a lot of criticism about that information that, though it was very detailed, was old and therefore not very useful. This latest information that it was -- there was a separate stream of information seems to add more relevance to that, as well, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Fascinating, all these pieces and you have to watch closely to keep up, in fact...
ARENA: It's true.
WOODRUFF: ... with all the pieces that have come up this week. Kelli, thank you very much.
So question: does al Qaeda have operatives in America waiting to strike? Investigators are focusing on recent arrests, as you just heard, in Pakistan. Let's go live now to CNN's Ash-har Quraishi in Islamabad.
Hello, Ash-har.
ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Judy.
Well, the breakthrough in this information appears to have come with the arrest of a man named Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan. Now Khan is being described as an al Qaeda computers expert who was arrested in Lahore, in the Eastern city of Lahore here in Pakistan back on July 13.
Officials are telling us that Khan has been in contact with individuals in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QURAISHI (voice-over): Highly placed Pakistan intelligence sources tell CNN that 25-year-old computer expert Mohammad Naeem Noor Khan, arrested last month, has been in recent contact with six al Qaeda operatives in the United States.
U.S. sources will only confirm that there may have been contacts from suspected al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan to one or more individuals in the U.S. Information gleaned from Khan's communications in part led to heightened alerts in the United States over the past few days.
According to our sources, Khan had also been in regular contact with a high level al Qaeda operative in the United Kingdom. U.K. sources have not confirmed this, but it was this information, say Pakistani intelligence sources, that led to the arrests of about a dozen suspected terrorists in Britain on Tuesday.
Intelligence sources say Khan is providing startling information about al Qaeda activities and global communications.
SHEIKH RASHID, PAKISTANI INFORMATION MINISTER: I think it's a significant catch (ph), some youngster, some government people, well- educated, well-trained people are being ignored. They are not in the pictures. But their operation is something very, very important and extraordinary. He is among those.
So that's why I think his arrest is very important.
QURAISHI: Al Qaeda Internet chat forums in recent weeks (AUDIO GAP).
JAMAL ISMAIL, ABU GHABI TELEVISION: These were signs (AUDIO GAP)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
WOODRUFF: ... Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Questions (AUDIO GAP). I'll speak with a top U.S. official who is at Guantanamo.
And...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said, "Don't kill me. I'll show you where Saddam is."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: The dramatic story of Saddam Hussein's capture, from the man who pulled Saddam out of his hole.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(AUDIO/VIDEO GAP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOODRUFF: A federal judge has refused to interfere with military tribunals that are considering the possible release of terror suspects held at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Critics of those tribunals say decisions on the detainees should be made in civilian courts instead.
The secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, is at Guantanamo Bay now. He's joining us to talk about the detainees.
Secretary England, before I ask you about their legal rights, I want to ask you about some charges being made by three Britons who were released from Guantanamo Bay. They are saying that they were interrogated at gunpoint. They were saying they were photographed naked. Are any of these allegations true?
GORDON ENGLAND, SECRETARY OF THE NAVY: Judy, not that I know of, and I don't believe they are true. We had the Navy inspector general here many months ago, did a thorough investigation of this facility, found out it was being conducted at very, very high standards.
Also, the International Committee of the Red Cross is here regularly. I mean, they're here over long stretches. They meet privately with prisoners. I can't imagine that someone would not have reported this to the ICRC.
Also, of course, we have people here that they could have reported this to. So none of this has ever been reported. So no, I don't believe it's true.
And I would just remind people this is a war. And it's a war of words and propaganda. So I would just be very cautious in taking that at face value for people who were just released from Guantanamo.
WOODRUFF: Navy Secretary Gordon England, let me ask you now about these tribunals, so-called administrative hearings that are being held for these prisoners. Some people are asking whether this is just a way of circumventing the Supreme Court ruling that came down this summer that required that these prisoners have legal representation.
ENGLAND: Well, the Supreme Court didn't require that. It gave them a right to that and can file and perhaps go to federal court. I guess they can.
On the other hand, this is an administrative response to the Supreme Court. And Justice O'Connor specifically stated that an administrative response could likely meet the Supreme Court standard.
So if you -- if you look at Article 5 of the Geneva Convention, dealing with prisoners of war, we incorporate that in what we call AR 190-8, an Army regulation. Now these are not prisoners of war because these individuals have never gone to war with the United States. They certainly haven't signed up to the Geneva Convention. I mean, this is a different category.
So we are using those same procedures for determination of enemy combatants standard. And in fact, we're going beyond those standards, because we're giving the detainees an opportunity to appear in person.
So in my judgment, this is an administrative process to meet what the Supreme Court has indicated would be a reasonable approach and keep in mind there's other administrative ways to satisfy legal requirements. I mean, this country, a lot of our immigration cases are handled administratively, patrol -- parole boards.
Lots of ways that we satisfy legal requirements through administrative actions. And that's what this is. Because there's no lawyer involved doesn't mean it's not a fair process.
WOODRUFF: All right. The secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, talking to us from Guantanamo Bay. We thank you very much.
ENGLAND: Thank you. Good being with you, Judy.
WOODRUFF: We appreciate it.
ENGLAND: Thank you.
WOODRUFF: And now a quick check of other stories that are in the news.
In Gaza, four Palestinians were killed today in clashes with Israeli forces. Palestinian sources say the victims included three teenagers and a 9-year-old. The Israeli military says it fired at Palestinians planning to launch rockets.
A U.N. security team is going to Ethiopia to work with an African Union peacekeeping force to try to stem deadly violence in Sudan's Darfur region. The 17-month conflict has killed an estimated 30,000 people, forced one million from their homes, and left more than two million in urgent need of food and medicine.
A House Republican leader is calling for a go slow response to the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission. Intelligence Committee Chairman Porter Goss says lawmakers, quote, "Cannot afford to make changes blindly or in unnecessary haste."
But the panel's top Democrat, Congresswoman Jane Harman, says the committee appears to be moving in reverse by holding hearings instead of acting on overhaul bills already introduced.
Airlines are being warned to stop delays at Chicago's O'Hare Airport by cutting flights, or the FAA will do it for them. The FAA wants arrivals to be limited to no more than 86 per hour, from a range that now peaks as high as 101 an hour.
The FAA says delays at O'Hare trigger delays at other airports across the country.
Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.
Well, you probably remember the story of Mary Kay Letourneau. She's the teacher convicted of rape in 1997 after having a sexual relationship with a then 13-year-old student.
Now she has been released from prison. CNN's Kimberly Osias is covering the story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Vili Fualaau was a sixth grader from a broken home. Mary Kay Letourneau was his teacher, a married mother of four, a congressman's daughter who, by many accounts, defied sensibilities and crossed what many considered sacred boundaries.
GREG OLSEN, AUTHOR: So many people see this as a -- a love story and the want to see them together. I do want to remind people that he was 12 and 13 years old when this thing happened, and his life has been profoundly impacted by what she did.
OSIAS: Pregnant by Fualaau, Mary Kay Letourneau pleaded guilty in August of 1997 to two counts of child rape. She begged a judge to give her a second chance.
MARY KAY LETOURNEAU, CONVICTED OF RAPE: Your honor, I did something that I have no right to do, morally or legally. It was wrong, and I am sorry. I give you my word that it will not happen again. Please help me. Help us. Help us all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mary Letourneau. Mary, do you have any comments?
OSAIAS: Right after her release following five months in jail, she defied a court order by getting together with Fualaau. The pair was spotted having sex in a van with $6,000 in their possession.
Letourneau landed back in jail, pregnant with their second child.
Now, after spending more than seven years in prison, Letourneau is starting again.
OLSEN: Beyond a book, beyond a movie, beyond anything like that, she's got to focus on what good she can do for the world. And maybe she'll try something like the Mothers Behind Bars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: That was Kimberly Osias, reporting from Seattle.
Mary Kay Letourneau is required to register as a sex offender, and she is barred from contacting Vili Fualaau.
We are joined now by CNN's Brian Todd, who is also following this case -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, we have a new development in the case, and this comes just hours since Mary Kay Letourneau's release. It comes on behalf of her official victim, who is now a young man.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): Vili Fualaau is 21 years old, a father since the age of 14, unemployed, didn't finish high school, by most accounts, rootless. He also has legal status as Mary Kay Letourneau's victim.
But in a broader sense, is he really a victim?
VILI FUALAAU, MARY KAY LETOURNEAU'S VICTIM: I'm kind of nervous. I don't know what my feelings are right now. But I know I do love her.
TODD: Fualaau is challenging a court order barring contact between him and Letourneau. He's the only person involved in the case who has the right to challenge the no contact order.
The King County prosecutor's office tells CNN it's reviewing the request and will decide soon whether to contest it. Superior Court Judge Linda Lau, who issued the order, will ultimately rule. Judge Lau may have to consider whether Fualaau is still being manipulated by the woman he had a sexual relationship with at age 13.
OLSEN: There were tapes and letters and things smuggled out of prison where she was pretty much telling him what to do. But they've been quiet, and they've been apart.
TODD: Author Greg Olsen has been following the case from the beginning. He says he last met with Fualaau three weeks ago and found him surprisingly mature and well balanced. That alone may be Fualaau's signature accomplishment, considering his past.
Even before his relationship with Letourneau, Fualaau came from a broken home, raised by a single mother, an abusive father in prison. Since the relationship...
OLSEN: There's been drug problems. There have been depression. There's been violence. There -- he was arrested for being in a stolen car at one point and, I mean, everything bad that could happen to a teenage boy, which is what he was at the time, happened to him.
TODD: The 7- and 5-year-old girls Fualaau fathered with Letourneau have been in the custody of Fualaau's mother. According to Greg Olsen, Fualaau lives with his mother and the children only part time, otherwise staying with family friends.
Fualaau and his mother once tried to sue the school district and police for negligence in the Letourneau affair, and lost. Now if Vili Fualaau and Mary Kay Letourneau are indeed serious about getting back together, the family faces a possible internal legal battle over custody of the two girls.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: By most accounts, those two girls have thrived in the care of Vili Fualaau's mother, Soona. In an earlier interview with author Greg Olsen, Fualaau's mother gave indications that she did not want to give up custody of those children.
So Judy, if Vili Fualaau and Mary Kay Letourneau get back together, if they decide they want custody of those two kids, they're potentially facing another very odd legal twist in this case.
WOODRUFF: Such a disturbing case. Brian, thank you very much.
Well, the sexual assault case against pro basketball superstar is in jeopardy today, following word that the alleged victim may withdraw from the case.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF (voice-over): Just three and a half weeks before Kobe Bryant is scheduled to go on trial for allegedly assaulting a Colorado resort worker, prosecutors are in danger of losing their main witness.
Lawyers for the resort worker say mistakes by court officials have made it difficult for her to continue her participation in the case. They cite the release of transcripts from a closed-door hearing regarding the woman's sexual conduct and the release of the woman's name.
The woman's lawyer, John Clune, says his client has lost faith in the court system, making it, quote, "difficult," end quote, for her to proceed.
At least one observer doubts that's the real reason. Former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman thinks the woman's lawyers have concluded the criminal case is doomed.
CRAIG SILVERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Any competent attorney, and John Clune and Lin Wood are certainly competent attorneys, can see the writing on the wall. There is very little chance that the prosecution can possibly prevail in this case given the facts as we know them right now.
WOODRUFF: The woman's attorneys say if their client does withdraw from the criminal case, she may opt instead for a civil suit against Bryant. They say she'll make a decision in the next few days. Prosecutors say they have been in constant contact with the woman and still anticipate her continued cooperation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Joining us now to talk about the potential impact of today's developments, defense attorney Jeralyn Merritt, she's in Denver, and CNN's senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, he is in New York. Jeffrey Toobin, to you first. Are there any circumstances under which you can envision this case going ahead if the victim herself is not a willing participant?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN ANALYST: No, as a practical matter I think that is -- just sampling couldn't happen. Now as a legal matter, you remember, this case is brought by the state of Colorado. She is not the plaintiff. She is not -- she has no legal status as a person initiating the case, but as a practical matter I don't know how a prosecutor can bring a sexual assault case when the victim of the alleged crime refuses to come in to be prepared, shows up only when subpoenaed, it seems as a practical matter doomed if she doesn't want to participate.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, is there any way the prosecution can compel the alleged victim to cooperate here?
JERALYN MERRITT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, as Jeffrey said, the prosecution can certainly subpoena her and put her on the witness stand but they're so unlikely to do that, because they're not going to win their case with an uncooperative witness.
So I would assume that if her lawyers decide that she does not want to continue with the criminal case, that this gives the prosecution the perfect out to drop the charges and not go through a trial where the likelihood at this point seems they would lose.
WOODRUFF: Jeff, is there anything the alleged victim can do about the mistakes that have been made in this case: releasing her name, releasing publicly the transcripts that include this questionable information about whether there was another sexual partner, and so forth?
TOOBIN: There's really no remedy, but I think it's worth mentioning, Judy, that the name has been public in the sense that people who are following the case know it for quite some time. And it has not been repeated. So I don't think the damage to her of the name has been quite as significant as her lawyers make it seem.
You know, we know the name, we're not reporting it, no network is reporting it, no respectable newspaper is reporting it, the only time the name has appeared in public as far as I know is one extremely low- rent supermarket tabloid. So even though this mistake has been made, the harm to this woman of the name disclosure I think is actually fairly modest.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, what about -- would you agree with that?
MERRITT: Yes, I would agree with that. And the name was initially put on the Internet. Pictures of her were put on the Internet. Everyone in Eagle knows who she is. Everyone in the media knows who she is. So I don't think the release of the name is that big of a deal.
I think what this is really about is the transcript that was released the other day in which the defense says they have an expert who is going to testify that the expert believes she had sex after the sex with Kobe, but before she got to the hospital. That makes -- if the jury buys that, that really puts this case in trouble.
TOOBIN: And Judy, what's especially so significant about the disclosure in the transcript is that the facts are bad enough, but this woman has denied having sex at the time that the evidence apparently indicates that she did. So it potentially makes her look like a liar which -- I don't know how you bring a case where you have scientific evidence apparently showing that the main witness is not telling the truth.
WOODRUFF: So you are saying the defense may not have any case, may not -- I'm sorry, that the prosecution may not have any case here just by virtue that that's in there.
TOOBIN: I think we need to keep an open mind. There may be evidence that contradicts it. But if that evidence is all that exists, the prosecution essentially has no case that any rational jury would convict on.
WOODRUFF: Jeralyn Merritt, what about the notion of their going ahead with a civil suit rather-- and just dropping the criminal? What are the prospects for a civil case here?
MERRITT: Well, I think that's where the case should have been in the first place. The advantage to Kobe if the case goes civil, of course, is that he no longer risks the possibility of going to jail. The advantage to the accuser if the case goes civil is that she has a different standard of proof.
The burden of proof would be what we call "preponderance of the evidence," which is only, "is it more likely than not that she was sexually assaulted?" She no longer has to have this proven beyond a reasonable doubt. So there's advantages to each of them as the case goes civil.
And, of course, Kobe may want to settle just as a nuisance value to get on with his life and because he has plenty of money.
TOOBIN: But I don't think we should think that there is anything so honorable about filing a civil suit. I mean, if you honestly believe that Kobe Bryant is a sex offender, is a rapist, the woman, she doesn't participate in a case that may take him off the streets but she does participate in a case that may make her some money?
And, by the way, in a civil case, she's guaranteed to have her name out in public. There would be no comparable guarantees of anonymity. So I think she really opens herself up to being seen as money-grubbing if this is the route she goes.
MERRITT: Unless she already has a settlement-unless she's already arranged fro a settlement. I don't know if she has or not. We don't know whether her lawyers have already talked to Kobe's lawyers and perhaps they've even discussed a civil case. Also, now that Lin Wood is in the case I think we have to look beyond a civil case against Kobe and think about is Lin Wood considering any kind of a defamation or slander or libel lawsuit against any of the media outlets or anyone else because of what they've said about her.
WOODRUFF: What about that, Jeffrey?
TOOBIN: Well I think that's a real long shot. I haven't heard anything about her that is not supported in the record. I mean, she's had a rough go of it in the press but most things seem supported by what we've seen in court so I think the key to any defamation case for starters is proving that something is false and that's by no means clear to me at this point.
MERRITT: I'll agree with that, Jeffrey, but you know, I haven't heard every single television show and I haven't seen every single news report. But I imagine that Lin Wood has been going over them, getting them on LexisNexis and seeing everything that's ever been written about her.
WOODRUFF: Alright. We're going to leave it there. Jeralyn Merritt is a defense attorney in Denver and everybody knows Jeffrey Toobin is CNN's legal analyst. He is joining us from New York. Thank you both very much.
MERRITT: Thank you.
TOOBIN: So long, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Well, her husband is under arrest but the search goes on for the body of Lori Hacking. Up next, hear why this case could soon be on hold.
Also, a plea. The man responsible for last year's Staten Island Ferry crash says he's guilty. But will his punishment fit the crime.
Also ahead:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I look at him, I knew that was Saddam. From his face. That was Saddam. And I told-this is Saddam. They didn't believe me at first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Ace in the hole. Hear from the man who dug out the former dictator. But first, a look at some other news making headlines around the world.
A shocking crime in Beijing, China near government headquarters. Police say a school worker with a history of mental problems attacked 15 students and at least two teachers in a kindergarten with a knife, leaving one child dead. Belgium mourns. It's a national day of mourning for victims of last week's gas pipeline explosion near Brussels. 18 people died in the blast, Belgium's worst industrial accident in almost 40 years. The cause remains under investigation.
Hot in Chile. Fists flew in the Chilean congress. Tension spilled over after a debate over pardoning political prisoners.
Deep sea discovery. Here's a rarely seen site. A goblin shark that got caught in a commercial fishing net off Australia. It is a bottom-dweller rarely encountered by humans. This shark, which was dead when pulled to the surface, will be dissected for research.
And that's our look around the world.
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WOODRUFF: The district attorney in Salt Lake City, Utah says he needs more time to make a decision on what charges to file against Mark Hacking. Hacking was arrested Monday in connection with the disappearance of his wife. CNN's Miguel Marquez is standing by. Hi, Miguel.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Judy. And we expect that those charges will now be filed some time next week. 72 hours is what the district attorney has by law, but they can seek an extension and he did say to us earlier this week that he would probably seek a two or three day extension which would take him probably well into next week.
We're also learning something about Mark Hacking when he checked in here at the county jail here in Salt Lake County. He is now on suicide watch and in a mental health unit here. He has requested no visitors says a spokesperson with the county jail system here, with the sheriff's office that run's the jail system here. Only his lawyer can visit him and when he was booked he had an alias of Jonathan Long. It's not clear what the significance of that alias is to him, but he did have an alias that he did use.
Also, on the booking sheet for when he came into this jail system it listed the time of death of Lori Hacking as being 1 a.m. Monday, July 19. That's significant because there is some security cam video that has arisen in the last couple of days that shows Mark and Lori Hacking entering that convenience store around 9:30 p.m. on Sunday, July 18. Both of them go in, there's a small transaction, they leave.
Hours later, 1:18 a.m., just 18 minutes after that time of death, Mark Hacking is seen coming back into that store buying a pack of Camel Lime Twist cigarettes wearing different pants, as well, you might note. He enters alone and drives off in Lori's car.
The search for Lori's body resumes tonight in a local landfill and authorities still hope to find her body -- Judy.
WOODRUFF: Miguel Marquez, thank you very much. Also tonight on our justice report, a New York ferry pilot pled guilty to manslaughter following a plea agreement. Richard Smith was working on the Staten Island Ferry when his boat plowed into a dock last October, killing 11 passengers. Smith told a federal judge he had been taking pain medications and was unconscious at the time of the collision. The sentencing date will be scheduled.
Hostages freed inside Iraq, plus fierce fighting in the north. Raging urban street battles in Mosul. Why Iraqis are fighting each other. Plus, a network exclusive. Hear from the Iraqi translator who helped capture Saddam Hussein.
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WOODRUFF: Iraqi fought Iraqi today in the northern city of Mosul.
Gunfire and explosions echoed for hours as police and insurgents battled in the streets. Officials say 12 people were killed in the fighting, another two dozen were wounded. A curfew has now been imposed on the city.
Four Jordanian hostages, independent truck drivers, have been freed in Iraq. Kidnappers calling themselves the Death Group have demanded the Jordanian businesses leave the country. Two Turkish truck drivers, held since Saturday, have also been released. Their company reportedly has pledged not to transport goods to American forces in Iraq.
A hearing continues for Private First Class Lynndie England who may face a court martial stemming from the abuse scandal at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. England was a clerk but her supervisor testified today that she often spent nights in the security area where her boyfriend worked as a guard. England is seen in one Abu Ghraib photo holding a naked prisoner by a dog leash.
Well, we've told you about the dramatic capture of Saddam Hussein, now an equally dramatic story behind the story about an Iraqi translator who actually pulled Saddam from his hiding hole in his hometown of Tikrit. The translator was interviewed by CNN's special contributor, Ron Young.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAMIR, IRAQI TRANSLATOR: On December 15th, we knew we had -- Saddam is there on that farm, hidden somewhere on that farm but we had his bodyguard. He is the one we were looking for. Because we knew he'd lead to Saddam. I was the translator for this guy.
And he started crying. He said, "Don't kill me, I'll show you where Saddam is." And we got on that farm about 8 o'clock and it was Saturday night. Forces went inside and they searched the whole farm and there is no sign of Saddam. The guy showed us exactly where the bunker is.
RON YOUNG, CNN SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR: The bodyguard showed you where the bunker was?
SAMIR: He said-pointed with his finger, he said. Dig in here. It's really hard to see it was the bunker. It was covered with dirt and what they do when Saddam would go in, they'd take leaves from the trees and they'd throw it on top of that. They'd make it look like it's been there for a long time. We dig in there and we found that hole. Little be the hole, it can't be. Especially when you think about looking for Saddam Hussein. The dictator. The one who had the power over his people. It just doesn't cross your mind-but he was there. He was there.
We heard shot and he started yelling inside. They said. Samir, come talk to him. Tell him to come out. And he started saying, "Don't shoot. Don't kill me, don't shoot." They asked me to ask him to put your hands up, we want to see your hands. I told him, "Put your hands up," and it was like one hand. And I said, "Let me see your other hand and he did this. I said, "No, both hands up."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: Well, joining us now in New York with more details on Samir's role in the capture of Saddam Hussein, CNN's special contributor, Ron Young, who, of course, was a POW during the Iraq War.
Ron, how did you come in contact with this man?
YOUNG: I actually came in contact through an affiliate. Basically, we received a call that he had said something to a local station out in St. Louis and he had showed up at one of the President's fundraisers so we received it and we decided it was something we definitely wanted to jump on and pursue. No one has ever done a story about his actual being involved and what he said, what was said by Saddam. I mean, the clear facts-and this was a man who was there and he can tell the story very compellingly and it's really a great story to hear.
WOODRUFF: Fascinated he was at one of the President's fundraisers. What more are we going to see tonight when this airs later on this evening?
YOUNG: Well, basically you are going to hear who Samir is and just so you know, Samir is actually an Iraqi and he's from the town of Nasiriya and he was basically-had to leave the nation. He lived on the border between Saudi Arabia and Iraq. He came to the United States and decided he wanted to do something for the Iraqi people and he came back over to Iraq and basically is the guy who put his hands on Saddam. And that's the short order piece of the story but it is an extremely compelling story. He tells about his family, some of them being executed. It's just a terrific story.
WOODRUFF: It's riveting. What is he doing now?
YOUNG: He's back over in the Middle East. I can't say exactly where. We told him we wouldn't say. He's definitely worried about his security somewhat, but he is still working with military forces and he's still providing his services to the Iraqi people and to our government.
WOODRUFF: Sounds like he must still have family inside Iraq.
YOUNG: Absolutely.
WOODRUFF: What an incredible story. And Ron Young, who, as we mentioned, of course, was a POW during the Iraq War had this extraordinary interview. You're going to see more of that, the complete story-be sure and watch a CNN exclusive tonight, it's on PAULA ZAHN NOW starting at 8 o'clock Eastern. Ron, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
YOUNG: Thank you, Judy.
WOODRUFF: Well, the results of our Web question of the day are ahead, plus, this:
Idol auditions. Young Americans have a new chance to become the next signing sensation.
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WOODRUFF: Here's how you were weighing in on our Web question of the day. Remember, we asked you, "Do you have confidence in the Homeland Security Department to react properly to potential terrorist attacks?" 35 percent of you say "Yes," 65 percent of you say, "No." Again, this is not a scientific poll.
Well let's hear from you and read some of your e-mails. Terry is writing: "The way our government and the media handled the recent terror threat warning is a disgrace. Panicking the nation is not the common sense way of calling the people to unite to help in protecting our cities."
Meanwhile, John writes this: "Can you imagine what would happen if there was an attack on one of these buildings and it was learned that the government had this information and did not release it. It is very important that the citizens get as much information as possible about the terrorists."
Our picture of the day is the picture of a dream. Thousands of would be superstars spent hours standing in line in Cleveland, waiting for a chance to audition for "American Idol." The popular television talent show is choosing contestants for its fourth season and Cleveland is the first of eight cities where auditions are planned.
Well, from "American Idol" to covering how American votes, covering politics can have its unexpected moments for television journalists and that made for some laughs last night on David Letterman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID LETTERMAN, TELEVISION HOST: Tonight we have a brand new segment. I don't think we've ever done this before. It's called "CNN Startled News Anchor of the Night." It's a very rarified segment and it features Judy Woodruff. Watch and listen closely. The "CNN Startled News Anchor of the Night." Take a look.
WOODRUFF: Call them battleground or showdown states. They are already on top of the travel itinerary...
(HORN SOUNDS)
LETTERMAN: This just in: "HONNNNNNNK." Judy Woodruff is good- looking, isn't she?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WOODRUFF: What can I say, I am embarrassed. A reminder, you can always catch WOLF BLITZER REPORTS weekdays--he wouldn't have been frightened of that horn-at this time, 5 Eastern. Thanks for joining us. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT starts right now.
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