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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Pope Undergoes Tracheotomy

Aired February 24, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Ailing again, back in the hospital with respiratory difficulties. Is the pope in peril?

What is a tracheotomy? CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains the operation to aid breathing.

What does the future hold? We'll hear from our correspondents in Rome and from experts on the Vatican.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CO-HOST: Hello, I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf has the day off.

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: And I'm Miles O'Brien. To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thanks for joining us.

WOODRUFF: Doctors in Rome, as you've been hearing, operated on Pope John Paul II just a short while ago to help ease his breathing problems. It was a successful tracheotomy. It was carried out just hours after the pope was rushed to the hospital for the second time in a month.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is standing by outside the hospital with the very latest.

Hello again, Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

In fact the pope was brought here this morning about 10:45 local time because of what we were told was a relapse of his flu condition that was -- that brought him here two weeks ago. And that because of complications, he was brought here for the day.

Now, at the end of the day -- toward the end of the day, Rome time, it was discovered that, in fact, he was on his way to the operating room. He was taken to an operating room about 2 1/2 hours ago for a tracheotomy, and here is the way the hospital spokesman described, in a very carefully worded statement from the Vatican, described what had happened after that to the pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLA CERBINO, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN (through translator): The flu that led to the hospitalization of the pope in Gemelli Hospital had some complications over the last few days with episodes of lack of breathing, difficulty in breathing, which were already caused by stenosis.

This clinical situation led to an elective tracheotomy to ensure the ventilation of the patient and to favor the resolution of this pathology. The Holy Father has given his consent after being informed. The surgery started at 20:20 and ended at 20:50, and the result was a positive.

The pope is fine, and he's going to spend the night in his room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: Two things that stand out from that statement that was prepared by the Vatican, I would just reemphasize, is that the way the phrase was said, is the pope had an elective tracheotomy. As our Dr. Sanjay Gupta said earlier, a tracheotomy is almost always something that's necessary. It's not something that you choose to do.

And the other thing is that the pope consented to the operation, again the Vatican putting a very positive spin on things, as if the pope had other choices that might be available to him -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim, give us some sense of how much news media interest there is in this story where you have and around the rest of Rome.

BITTERMANN: Well, there's a tremendous interest, as there was the last time when the pope came to the hospital. There are TV networks from all over the world who have come here and camped out, instantly formed a campground next to the hospital, probably dozens of satellite dishes here and hundreds of reporters who are here covering this.

The Catholic Church is a kind of institution that touches a lot of people around the world in a lot of different countries. One point one billion people say they are Catholics. And when you think about that, that's practically in every part, every corner of the globe. So there are broadcasters here and journalists representing just about every one of those countries -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim Bittermann, reminding us of just how much international interest there is. Jim, thank you very much.

Miles, to you.

O'BRIEN: For more on the tracheotomy performed on the pope just a short while ago, just what was involved and what might happen next, let's turn to CNN's senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He joins us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Sanjay, am I incorrect in saying that one of the bigger risks in all of this was the general anesthesia?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Miles. In today's day and age, really, the operation, the tracheotomy or tracheotomy, both terms used interchangeably, is a fairly common procedure done in just about every hospital in the world.

The bigger concern in all patients, but especially in an elderly patient with existing medical problems, is the general anesthesia. So that's what doctors are probably worried about the most, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So in layman's terms, what we're talking about is a blockage in the airway. And this is a way of just circumventing that. What does that say about his condition? We've been commonly calling it the flu, but that could be shorthand for a lot of other illnesses.

GUPTA: Yes. And you know, just to be very clear on this, because the first thing that typically happens if someone is having significant trouble breathing because of a very severe case of the flu or pneumonia or bronchitis is that a tube is typically placed from the mouth first into the airway.

In this situation they decided to go straight to the neck. Let me just show you real quick, Miles, on this model that I have here. I think this sort of illustrates the point a little bit better.

But again, first -- the first course of action usually is to put a tube from the mouth into the airway here. In this case they actually made an incision on the neck and then put the tube directly into the neck.

Why would they do that first? What we're hearing, probably, Miles, is that there was significant inflammation of the airway above the tracheotomy. They possibly could not pass a tube in that direction and decided to go ahead and do the tracheotomy.

For most doctors it means that this is a significant change for the pope. He may be on a ventilator. He won't be able to speak while the device is actually being used. And he obviously underwent the general anesthesia, as well.

O'BRIEN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks for explaining that to us. We appreciate it.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Judy.

WOODRUFF: And I just -- we should just point out, Miles, that the aide to Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi, who spoke to reporters at the hospital a moment ago, among other things -- he was speaking in Italian. We've had to get it translated.

But among other things, he pointed out that the pope is, in his words, conscious and serene after the surgery. Important because we know the pope would have undergone general anesthesia, so he would have been unconscious while that surgery took place. So we believe that it ended a little over two hours ago.

Word of the pope's hospitalization and surgery has sent Roman Catholics flocking to churches around the world. We are told people in Krakow, Poland were praying for the pope's recovery.

John Paul II was, of course, archbishop of Krakow from 1964 until he was elected pope in 1978.

There is a Polish church in Rome, St. Stanislau, and people have been coming there throughout the evening, as well, to pray for the pontiff. One woman noted that Poles are especially proud of John Paul II, because he is the first non-Italian pope in 450 years.

And in heavily Catholic Mexico, news of the pope's latest crisis brought dozens of people to the Basilica of Guadalupe in Mexico City. The pope himself has celebrated mass here four times, most recently in 2002.

Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. The president of Catholic University, Father David O'Connell, will join us next. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures from Rome, Italy, the Gemelli Hospital, tenth floor. Pope John Paul II is said to be recovering and serene following a tracheotomy procedure in the wake of yet another bout with the flu.

The Vatican says the tracheotomy performed on Pope John Paul II to ease his breathing was successful, lasted about 30 minutes. Officials say he'll spend the night in the hospital room.

Some facts about the pope you may not be aware of. John Paul was born in Poland. His -- in 1920. His name is Karol Josef Wojtyla. He was ordained into the priesthood when he was 26 years old.

And joining us for some more discussion on the health of Pope John Paul II and really more about his legacy as a pontiff, the president of Catholic University here in Washington, the very Reverend David O'Connell.

Father O'Connell, good to have you with us.

REV. DAVID O'CONNELL, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Miles. And thanks for that good news about the pope.

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is good news. The things that we will always remember about the pope in his early days was his fight against communism. To what extent did that, do you think, shaped his papacy?

O'CONNELL: Well, you mentioned a few moments ago that he was born in 1920, so that gives you some historical sense of what the pope witnessed in the course of his life. And of course growing up in Poland, facing the Nazi threat there, and then subsequently the threat of communism. The pope was well-schooled and well-versed in what that meant, and I think it left a lasting impression on him, so much so as he entered the world arena in his role, he used his experience to serve as a backdrop for the work that he did.

O'BRIEN: When you say he entered the world arena, he did so in so many ways and so frequently. By far the most itinerant pope, he traveled the world many times over. Why was that important, do you think?

O'CONNELL: I think when you think about it, 750,000 miles, 133 countries, 850 heads of state. This was a man on the move, who was eager to spread his message. And his message was the gospel of Christ, and that was the thing that -- it energized him. That was the thing that made him want to touch people and be part of people's lives in a very real way.

O'BRIEN: And he electrified people along the way, and also along the way, with that magnetism, left an indelible imprint on the church, and really took the church down a conservative path. What is that legacy?

O'CONNELL: Well, when you think of it, this -- this is the only pope that 50 percent of the world has ever known. And it's a man who has been seen by more people than any other human being in the history of the world.

I know you mentioned that he -- he led the church down a conservative path. You know, I'm not quite sure what that means. His responsibility, as the vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter, was to hand on the tradition, whole and entire. And he saw that as a very important responsibility, and that was his teaching. That was his message, the tradition as it had been handed on to him.

Developed over history, yes, for sure, and applied in a different way in our era -- in our era, but the tradition, the gospel of the church as it was handed on to him from the apostles.

O'BRIEN: The pope is -- has a unique position as a world leader, and yet also a priest with a flock. That's got to be a difficult couple of worlds to straddle. Do you think that John Paul II successfully did that?

O'CONNELL: I think he did. And I think he knew what his priority was. His priority was always and everywhere the gospel of Christ. He was first and foremost a priest, a bishop, and a shepherd of the flock. Over one billion Catholics worldwide, 65 million in the United States alone. Tremendous responsibility on his shoulders.

O'BRIEN: Do you care to speculate on how -- when the history books are finally written on his papacy, what aspect of his papacy he'd like to be remembered for, if you had to pick one thing?

O'CONNELL: It would be very hard to pick for one thing. I think he'll be remembered for his teaching, his fidelity to teaching. I think he'll also be remembered in a special way for his contribution to inter-religious, interfaith dialogue, very important to this pontiff.

O'BRIEN: The very Reverend David O'Connell, president of Catholic University in Washington, thanks for your time.

O'CONNELL: Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Miles.

Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll get reaction from Catholics here in the United States. Our Brian Todd is standing by at the Catholic University here in Washington. We just heard from the university's president.

And Mary Snow is at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... the world, from all religions, many we spoke to today offering good wishes and prayers for this pope. This is also one of the largest Catholic populations in the United States. The New York archdiocese estimates there are between three and four million Catholics here.

Also noting that the pope has a special relationship with the cathedral. He visited New York City twice, once in 1979, and one in 1995. Two plaques commemorating his visit clearly stand right in the front of this cathedral. Also some remembrances of him inside the cathedral, including a portrait.

There are going to be some special prayers for him offered. There's a daily mass that is going to begin in a very short time. And also tomorrow morning, Cardinal Eagan will be celebrating mass here. The archdiocese saying there will be a special remembrance.

And one parishioner I spoke with saying this is a very sad time for Catholics, also a time to contemplate -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Mary, how would you describe the size of the crowd or number of people coming and going there at St. Patrick's?

SNOW: There is a sizable crowd here today, but again there are always a number of tourists from around the world who come in and out of this church on a daily basis. But there was a good number of people inside the cathedral, and it's anticipated that more people will be coming for the mass that starts in a short time.

WOODRUFF: And all that, of course, in inclement weather. We can tell that it's snowing there in New York City. Mary, thank you very much at St. Patrick's.

Now to Miles O'Brien, my colleague, who's with me.

O'BRIEN: As we've been showing you there's great concern around the world for the pope and the surgery he underwent just a few hours ago. CNN's Brian Todd is at the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington with reaction from there -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, this is a very popular crossroads for the Catholic community here in Washington, D.C. It's a sprawling complex. People come here every day. A great many people come every day to -- to do research, to visit the museums. There are two museums in this complex.

Right now I'm joined by Monsignor Malcolm -- excuse me, William Kerr, the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center.

Sir, can you gauge for us the reaction of the Catholic community here in Washington, D.C., to the news today of the pope's surgery?

MONSIGNOR WILLIAM KERR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POPE JOHN PAUL II CULTURAL CENTER: Brian, I'd say it's very much like a family with a beloved member who is gravely ill. We know he is gravely ill. We watch every release that we are able to get. We're sad, but we're joyful again when we comes back, seemingly, to an active life. But we know that he's very sick.

TODD: As I mentioned, there are two museums in this complex. We're going to pan over here and show you some of the -- one of the artifacts on display. This is a cassock, cape and sash worn throughout the 1980s.

There are hundreds of artifacts like this in this center. This is a sprawling complex that opened in March of 2001.

And I want to ask Monsignor Kerr, again, the pope had a very powerful but unique inspiration for this center.

KERR: Well, he did, Brian. Actually, the person who came with the idea to the pope was Cardinal Maida of Detroit, Michigan. When he presented this idea to the pope, he had in mind a presidential library, something along those lines, named after the pope.

The pope had two requests: No. 1, that it not be a monument to himself, but that it be a learning center, that it be a center where the wisdom of faith could interact with the cultures of the world.

And the second request was that it be in Washington, D.C., which the pope felt was the crossroads of the world.

TODD: Well, thank you very much and the best of luck to you and the community here who are monitoring the pope's health.

I do need to point out, Miles, that normally on a day like today, when the pope's health is in the news and being reported on, there are many, many people coming here. But we have a driving snowstorm outside, and it's -- there aren't too many here right now, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's hope everybody stays safe. Brian Todd, thank you very much -- Judy. WOODRUFF: And Miles, our coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We're going to look back at his past health problems with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and we'll get a live update from Rome.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. The Vatican announces the pope is now out of surgery and will spend the night in his own hospital room. We'll have a live update from Rome. Live pictures there of the Gemelli hospital, tenth floor, where the pope is said to be tranquil and conscious following his tracheotomy procedure.

First, before we do more on the pope coverage, a few of the other stories that we are following at this hour for you.

Police in Tyler, Texas, say a man with a gun has killed at least two people and wounded at least three others. The shooting took place outside the country courthouse. Police said the gunman was shot and is in custody. No word on his condition. Tyler, Texas, about 95 miles east of Dallas.

President Bush met with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, in Slovakia today, the final day of Mr. Bush's European tour. The two leaders say they agree neither Iran nor North Korea should be allowed to have nuclear weapons. President Bush called on Mr. Putin to reaffirm his commitment to democracy.

A car bomb exploded at a police station in Tikrit, killing at least a dozen officers. Four other officers were killed in Iraq, and two U.S. soldiers died in roadside bombings.

WOODRUFF: Now back to our main story, the pope's health. Pope John Paul II had emergency surgery just a short while ago. CNN's Jim Bittermann joins us from Rome with the latest.

Jim, you are at the Gemelli Hospital. We believe the surgery ended a little more than, what, 2 1/2 hours, ago so what information are you getting since then?

BITTERMANN: Well, we've had a couple things. First, we had the hospital spokesman come out and read a statement from the Vatican, a very carefully worded statement, saying basically that the pope's operation had been successful and the pope was going to spend the night here at the hospital in his room, not in intensive care.

Then shortly thereafter, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's spokesman went up to the papal suite on the tenth floor here at the hospital, and when he came down, he talked to journalists. And here's a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETTA (through translator): When he woke up with the same spirit, he went like this with his hand, as if he wanted to say, "I'm still going to approach you." So it means he's fine. The doctors are satisfied with the way he has undergone the surgery and also as far as the first hours after the surgery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: Gianni Letta there, the prime minister's spokesman, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's spokesman, after going up to the suite up on the tenth floor here at the hospital and seeing the pope.

So for all intents and purposes, what we know now, Judy, is that the pope went through this tracheotomy, that it was successful, at least for now. But as we've heard repeatedly earlier in the evening, frankly it's up to what happens next, I mean, the way he recovers from this tracheotomy. A tracheotomy itself a fairly simple operation, but it's really what happens afterwards and the papal recovery that everyone will be watching -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim, this is a rather small point, but the prime minister's spokesman, he -- he, I think, used a gesture with his hand. He did the pope gesture. Were you able to see what -- what he did with his hand there?

BITTERMANN: I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to, no. I didn't -- I wasn't able to see it. And I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to.

He also said that the pope had been joking with the doctors. But we've been given to understand that the pope can't speak after a tracheotomy, so I'm not sure exactly what he was trying to tell us.

WOODRUFF: Well, those are some of the questions we're going to continue to ask.

All right, Jim Bittermann outside of Gemelli Hospital -- Jim, thank you again.

In recent years, of course, there's been mounting concern about the pope's health.

CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us live now from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Sanjay, we are hearing from the prime minister's spokesman that the pope, in his words, is conscious and serene. What does that tell you?

GUPTA: Well, I think those are very favorable signs for the pope so far, the operation, again, being a relatively simple operation.

Serene, he's probably still under some effects of the general anesthesia. And I think it is really going to take a few hours after the operation to be able to tell exactly how he's doing. When any patients comes to the hospital, Judy, doctors get a full medical history. With the pope, it's really no different.

We tried to get a medical history of sorts as well. Here's what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): When Pope John Paul II was elected in 1978, he was the picture of vitality. At 58, he was the youngest pope of the 20th century, an avid skier who seemed to travel constantly. He was seriously wounded in a 1981 assassination attempt, but he recovered and resumed an active pace.

Then, in 1992, the pope had surgery to removal an intestinal tumors, and symptoms of Parkinson's appeared. The pope dislocated his shoulder in a falls from some stairs in 1983, and suffered a broken thighbone the next year. In December of 1995, he missed Christmas mass because of the flu, and, in 1996, his health problems appeared to mount.

He canceled public appearances in March and August, because of what the Vatican describes as fevers of digestive nature. And, in October, his appendix was removed. In 1999, a fall forced the pope to cancel an outdoor mass in his native Poland. Increasingly frail, he canceled engagements in March of 2002, citing a flare-up of arthritis and in September of 2003 because of an intestinal ailment.

Then, earlier this month, he spent a week in the hospital with the flu.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And, as we've for so long, two hospitalizations now in a month. The first time around, Judy, he did not require any kind of endotracheal tube, a breathing tube of sorts.

We also ahead he didn't require antibiotics. This time, obviously, as everyone knows now, the operation having been performed to try and secure his airway, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Sanjay, we're having to depend on just fragments of information that we're getting. The last bit we got was from the spokesman for the Italian prime minister, who said the pope is conscious. He said this about two hours after the surgery had ended, we believe. Does that sound about normal to you?

GUPTA: Yes.

I think that, at two hours after the operation, it's very reasonable to think that the pope would be conscious, maybe even able to gesture, as I think he indicated as well. As to whether or not he's regained back to 100 percent of his mental faculties, really being able to think through things, that is going to take some time, obviously.

I'm sure he knows where he is. He fully understands the procedure he just had done. But sort of I think he'll continue to be tested throughout the night and tomorrow as well to see when he gets back to 100 percent. WOODRUFF: Sanjay, obviously everyone hopes that the pontiff will continue to get better, get completely better. But what are some possible complications of a tracheotomy?

GUPTA: Well, the biggest concern really is less with the operation itself than with the general anesthesia.

And this is an important point. You can look at how the procedure is done there. An incision is actually made in the neck and then the tracheotomy device is actually placed there. Certainly, we've heard that the operation itself was successful.

But the whole point of this operation, Judy, is to make that sure he's getting enough oxygenated blood to the rest of his body, particularly his brain. So, some of the complications, possible complications, I should say, of an operation like this would be that he did not get enough air into his bloodstream for a period of time, which would cause some symptoms in his brain or in the rest of his body.

He could have problems with bleeding around the trache site. Again, nobody is saying any of these things have happened. The biggest concern, giving his age, 84, and the existing medical problem of Parkinson's disease, among others, would just be to see how he wakes up from the general anesthesia. Did he have any problems with his heart during the operation? Did he have any additional problems with his breathing during the operation?

These are all things that, again, you need a few hours to really decipher and to ensure that none of that stuff happened, Judy.

WOODRUFF: OK, Sanjay Gupta, who, as we point out from time to time, is not only CNN's medical correspondent, is a trained neurosurgeon, Sanjay, thank you very much.

So, Miles, we're reading the tea leaves, but with some people who know what they're talking about.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Reading the tea leaves, and, so far, things look good as far as the pope's condition. Of course, a lot of questions about what happens next.

For more on that, let's go to our CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher. She's at our Rome bureau.

Delia, a priest who is very close to the pope is quoted as saying people are just going to have to get used to the fact that the pope is going to need to visit the hospital a little bit. But, nevertheless, and perhaps as a result of all that, there's a lot of talk, a lot of speculation, as to whether the pope might tender his resignation at some point.

Are you hearing anything along those lines?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, no. There's discussion, of course, as there has been in the past few months, about a possible resignation. But all indications, Miles, seem to suggest that this pope has no intention of resigning. He doesn't consider the papacy a job. He considers it a vocation, a vocation for a lifetime, and a vocation which comes from God, and therefore God will decide when he's going to quit, which would mean for the pope when he dies.

So, although there has been speculation about a resignation, and a resignation is certainly possible, within the rules of the Catholic Church, but it must be the pope who decides that resignation, and he must write of his own free will and with all of his mental faculties that he wishes to resign. So that looks unlikely, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, I think a lot of people do get confused, because the pope, in addition to being a religious leader, of course, plays a role on the world stage as well.

What is happening, though, with just the machinations of the church, the day-to-day running of the church? Presumably, that can all be delegated. But are there matters that the pope needs to attend to?

GALLAGHER: Well, there would be some decisions to be made, for example, on the signing off of saints, or for the making of bishops, or for declaring a document infallible, that is, the truth of the church that cannot be changed.

Those are things that are reserved particularly to the pope and those decisions would have to be postponed until he's back at the Vatican. However, for the day-to-day operations, the church has been going under this pontificate for 26 years. He has all of his cardinals in place.

And so the offices continue on a day-to-day basis doing their work. And for that, they don't necessarily have to have the pope's presence in the Vatican. But, of course, as you say, he's also a spiritual and moral leader, so his presence is very important on many other levels -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Delia, give us a sense. You are as connected as anybody there. Give us a sense of the kind of flow of information that's coming out right now.

There's a tendency in these cases to be not completely forthcoming for privacy reasons and other reasons related to the leadership of the church. How much are you hearing?

GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican, of course, gives as little information as they deem necessary, which means about one update a day.

So, even the information that we've gotten this evening has been a bonus. But, on the other hand, you know, they consider that the pope's health is both a private and a public matter, so they have to be very careful in terms of that. But the information flow here is generally much slower than what we are used to in other areas in governments and business and so on. So we have to be sensitive to that as well and accept what they say as being the truth, because we know, of course, that we're going to see him eventually. So we also have this way of balancing what they are telling us with what we actually can see, because the pope comes back out.

As soon as he comes back to the Vatican, he likes to get back out and get on the world stage. So we're able to temper a little bit with that information with what we can see with our own eyes -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: The church is not a democracy by any means. Delia Gallagher, in Rome, thank you very much -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Miles, our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll talk about the future of the Catholic Church with Father Thomas Reese. He's editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America" magazine.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Live pictures of Rome, the Gemelli Polyclinic Hospital. On the 10th floor, Pope John Paul II rests, recovering from surgery.

Suffering from a respiratory ailment, the pope has undergone an operation, a tracheotomy, to help his breathing.

Joining me now from New York is CNN papal analyst the Reverend Thomas Reese. He's editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America."

Father Reese, our analysts have said they don't believe this pope would willingly resign. Do you agree?

FATHER THOMAS REESE, CNN PAPAL ANALYST: Yes.

I think that the pope sees the job of being pope as not just a job, but really a vocation, a mission that he has received from God. And he's not going to lay that aside just because he's in pain or suffering. He's going to keep at that job and not quit.

On the other hand, if he feels that, for the good of the church, he needs to step aside, he would do that, because all his life has been dedicated to the service of the church, to the good of the church. So, if he gets to the point where he feels that, for the good of the church, he would need to step aside, I think he would do it.

WOODRUFF: Well, everyone hopes, of course, that he makes a complete recoveries. But, if he didn't, whether he was still alive or not, what exactly are the procedures that would take place?

REESE: Well, the pope, of course, has had a number of years to surround himself with people to run the Vatican offices, people he trusts, people that he can delegate certain responsibilities to. So, you know, the normal work of the church can continue on.

And, of course, in parishes and diocese around the world, masses are happening. Sacraments are being received. There are bishops there. But there are certain things that the pope has to do. For example, if a bishop dies, he is the one who's involved in the appointment of his successor. If a major document is going to be released from the Vatican, he's the one who has to approve it.

Or, you know, if some of the Vatican officials are in disagreement among themselves, well, he's the one they have to go to who makes the final decision. To the extent that he is weakened and cannot function like he used to, it's going to be more and more difficult for him to deal with those kinds of issues.

WOODRUFF: What are you hearing from inside the Vatican?

REESE: Well, I think what we're hearing is a real concern for the pope. You know, he's surrounded by people who have worked with him a long time, who want to protect him, who want him to be taken care of.

They're praying for him. But, at the same time, they're also thinking about the good of the church. And, you know, they're looking at this and wondering, how long can this go on? Unless he has a much fuller recovery, where he can really give more attention to the work of the church, we're going to be facing some serious difficulties.

WOODRUFF: Are there obvious candidates to replace him?

REESE: Well, there's numerous candidates that are being discussed by people, but the cardinals don't really get serious about this until the pope dies. And then, of course, they gather in Rome 15 days after the death of the pope to elect a new pope.

There's three or four Italians that are being spoken of, a couple Africans, three or more Latin American cardinals that are being mentioned. No Americans, however, are on anybody's list.

WOODRUFF: We're going to leave it there. Father Thomas Reese is editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America."

Father Reese, thank you very much -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll get more reaction from Catholics in New York City, our Mary Snow standing by at Saint Patrick's Cathedral.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Pope John Paul II on the 10th floor of this building in Rome, the Gemelli Polyclinic Hospital, recovering from a tracheotomy after some sort of respiratory problems. He's said to be conscious, tranquil and serene and appears to be on a road to recovery. We're watching it very closely for you. As Catholics around the world keep the vigil for Pope John Paul II, let's check in once again with CNN's Mary Snow. She's in Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, every evening around this time, there's a daily mass. There's one going on right now, a few dozen people inside Saint Patrick's Cathedral, but a not-so- ordinary start to the mass.

Monsignor Clark came out giving parishioners an update on the pope's condition, asking for prayers for the pope, also remembering him, saying that he served us well, in his words, saying that he was a great advocate of a free Europe, also saying that his presence was felt very deeply in many places he traveled, including in New York.

The pope did come here on two occasions, including Saint Patrick's Cathedral. And here today, we spoke with some New Yorkers about their feelings about the pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For many Catholics, yes, it is a sad time and a time to contemplate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His legacy for the world is going to be helping it with the downfall of communism and, you know, really, I guess, making the Catholic Church a bit more conservative than what it was, no matter how you really feel (INAUDIBLE) so...

SNOW: Do you think that he'll be missed by -- not that he's going anywhere, but do you think that this would be a big loss for the Catholic Church?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. Sure, it will be, because he's a very strong leader. And, hopefully, he'll be OK.

SNOW: Great. Thank you so much. Can I have your name?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: And some of the New Yorkers remembering also the pope's visit here to New York that included everything from an open-air mass in Central Park to visits to the two big stadiums here, Yankee Stadium and Shea Stadium, also here at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, where two plaques sit at the entrance to this cathedral, also someone remembering that the last visit he made here in 1995, he had an impromptu walk down 50th Street for a block that no one quite expected.

Now, tomorrow, also, Cardinal Egan will be holding a mass tomorrow morning with a special remembrance for Pope John Paul II -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And, Mary, I had the chance to follow the pope around on one of his trips back in 1986 and at some of these huge stadiums, thousands and thousands of people. You just could hear a pin drop. He really had a way of captivating the faithful.

Have you gotten a sense of that today in talking to Catholics there in New York City?

SNOW: Yes, certainly, Miles. That is one thing that they echoed, your sentiments, and also pointing out that there's a generation that has grown up with this pope.

One of the women I was speaking with said that he seemed to have a big effect on young people, especially during those trips. And, you know, just talking across the board, that so many visitors come here on a daily basis from around the world, and people we were speaking with who are not even Catholic saying that they felt that he had such a presence and a way with people -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Mary Snow, on a snowy Fifth Avenue at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, thank you very much -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And, Miles, I've just been handed a statement. It is about, what, just about six minutes before 6:00 in The east, which means it's just before midnight in Rome.

From the White House, from President Bush himself, this statement: "On behalf of all Americans, Laura and I send our heartfelt best wishes to Pope John Paul II. The holy father is in our thoughts and prayers. And we wish him a speedy recovery and a return to the service of his church and all of humanity," this statement coming in to CNN just a few moments ago from the White House, and, again, a personal statement on the part of President Bush.

Well, our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Live pictures from Rome, Gemelli Hospital. Pope John Paul II is there.

Here now is the latest on the condition of the pope. The Vatican says a successful tracheotomy was carried out a few hours ago to ease the pope's breathing. It was a 30-minute operation. It was done just hours after the 84-year-old pope was rushed to a hospital in Rome with what the Vatican said was a relapse of the flu for the second time in a month. A spokesman for the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, says the pope is -- quote -- "fine" and he is "tranquil." And he went on to say, "Everything is going well."

I'm here with my colleague Miles O'Brien in Washington today.

Miles, this is one of those stories, the whole world is riveted on this.

O'BRIEN: The whole world is riveted, and not a lot of information comes out.

And I think it's worth reminding people that, when the term flu is used here, it's used in a very broad sense. There are a lot of people who suffer from Parkinson's disease, as the pontiff does, who battle pneumonia and other respiratory diseases as a result of that. And perhaps what we're talking about when we say flu is something else. But, nevertheless, we're watching all of this very closely at Gemelli Hospital.

WOODRUFF: And put it all together.

Miles O'Brien, thanks very much.

And we want to urge you to stay with CNN for continuing live coverage from Rome and from around the world on the health of the pope.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for joining us.

For our international viewers, "CNN TODAY" will be next. For our viewers in the United States, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 24, 2005 - 17:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Ailing again, back in the hospital with respiratory difficulties. Is the pope in peril?

What is a tracheotomy? CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains the operation to aid breathing.

What does the future hold? We'll hear from our correspondents in Rome and from experts on the Vatican.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CO-HOST: Hello, I'm Judy Woodruff. Wolf has the day off.

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: And I'm Miles O'Brien. To our viewers in the United States and around the world, thanks for joining us.

WOODRUFF: Doctors in Rome, as you've been hearing, operated on Pope John Paul II just a short while ago to help ease his breathing problems. It was a successful tracheotomy. It was carried out just hours after the pope was rushed to the hospital for the second time in a month.

CNN's Jim Bittermann is standing by outside the hospital with the very latest.

Hello again, Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Judy.

In fact the pope was brought here this morning about 10:45 local time because of what we were told was a relapse of his flu condition that was -- that brought him here two weeks ago. And that because of complications, he was brought here for the day.

Now, at the end of the day -- toward the end of the day, Rome time, it was discovered that, in fact, he was on his way to the operating room. He was taken to an operating room about 2 1/2 hours ago for a tracheotomy, and here is the way the hospital spokesman described, in a very carefully worded statement from the Vatican, described what had happened after that to the pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICOLA CERBINO, HOSPITAL SPOKESMAN (through translator): The flu that led to the hospitalization of the pope in Gemelli Hospital had some complications over the last few days with episodes of lack of breathing, difficulty in breathing, which were already caused by stenosis.

This clinical situation led to an elective tracheotomy to ensure the ventilation of the patient and to favor the resolution of this pathology. The Holy Father has given his consent after being informed. The surgery started at 20:20 and ended at 20:50, and the result was a positive.

The pope is fine, and he's going to spend the night in his room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: Two things that stand out from that statement that was prepared by the Vatican, I would just reemphasize, is that the way the phrase was said, is the pope had an elective tracheotomy. As our Dr. Sanjay Gupta said earlier, a tracheotomy is almost always something that's necessary. It's not something that you choose to do.

And the other thing is that the pope consented to the operation, again the Vatican putting a very positive spin on things, as if the pope had other choices that might be available to him -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim, give us some sense of how much news media interest there is in this story where you have and around the rest of Rome.

BITTERMANN: Well, there's a tremendous interest, as there was the last time when the pope came to the hospital. There are TV networks from all over the world who have come here and camped out, instantly formed a campground next to the hospital, probably dozens of satellite dishes here and hundreds of reporters who are here covering this.

The Catholic Church is a kind of institution that touches a lot of people around the world in a lot of different countries. One point one billion people say they are Catholics. And when you think about that, that's practically in every part, every corner of the globe. So there are broadcasters here and journalists representing just about every one of those countries -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim Bittermann, reminding us of just how much international interest there is. Jim, thank you very much.

Miles, to you.

O'BRIEN: For more on the tracheotomy performed on the pope just a short while ago, just what was involved and what might happen next, let's turn to CNN's senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He joins us now from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Sanjay, am I incorrect in saying that one of the bigger risks in all of this was the general anesthesia?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Miles. In today's day and age, really, the operation, the tracheotomy or tracheotomy, both terms used interchangeably, is a fairly common procedure done in just about every hospital in the world.

The bigger concern in all patients, but especially in an elderly patient with existing medical problems, is the general anesthesia. So that's what doctors are probably worried about the most, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. So in layman's terms, what we're talking about is a blockage in the airway. And this is a way of just circumventing that. What does that say about his condition? We've been commonly calling it the flu, but that could be shorthand for a lot of other illnesses.

GUPTA: Yes. And you know, just to be very clear on this, because the first thing that typically happens if someone is having significant trouble breathing because of a very severe case of the flu or pneumonia or bronchitis is that a tube is typically placed from the mouth first into the airway.

In this situation they decided to go straight to the neck. Let me just show you real quick, Miles, on this model that I have here. I think this sort of illustrates the point a little bit better.

But again, first -- the first course of action usually is to put a tube from the mouth into the airway here. In this case they actually made an incision on the neck and then put the tube directly into the neck.

Why would they do that first? What we're hearing, probably, Miles, is that there was significant inflammation of the airway above the tracheotomy. They possibly could not pass a tube in that direction and decided to go ahead and do the tracheotomy.

For most doctors it means that this is a significant change for the pope. He may be on a ventilator. He won't be able to speak while the device is actually being used. And he obviously underwent the general anesthesia, as well.

O'BRIEN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks for explaining that to us. We appreciate it.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Judy.

WOODRUFF: And I just -- we should just point out, Miles, that the aide to Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi, who spoke to reporters at the hospital a moment ago, among other things -- he was speaking in Italian. We've had to get it translated.

But among other things, he pointed out that the pope is, in his words, conscious and serene after the surgery. Important because we know the pope would have undergone general anesthesia, so he would have been unconscious while that surgery took place. So we believe that it ended a little over two hours ago.

Word of the pope's hospitalization and surgery has sent Roman Catholics flocking to churches around the world. We are told people in Krakow, Poland were praying for the pope's recovery.

John Paul II was, of course, archbishop of Krakow from 1964 until he was elected pope in 1978.

There is a Polish church in Rome, St. Stanislau, and people have been coming there throughout the evening, as well, to pray for the pontiff. One woman noted that Poles are especially proud of John Paul II, because he is the first non-Italian pope in 450 years.

And in heavily Catholic Mexico, news of the pope's latest crisis brought dozens of people to the Basilica of Guadalupe in Mexico City. The pope himself has celebrated mass here four times, most recently in 2002.

Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. The president of Catholic University, Father David O'Connell, will join us next. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures from Rome, Italy, the Gemelli Hospital, tenth floor. Pope John Paul II is said to be recovering and serene following a tracheotomy procedure in the wake of yet another bout with the flu.

The Vatican says the tracheotomy performed on Pope John Paul II to ease his breathing was successful, lasted about 30 minutes. Officials say he'll spend the night in the hospital room.

Some facts about the pope you may not be aware of. John Paul was born in Poland. His -- in 1920. His name is Karol Josef Wojtyla. He was ordained into the priesthood when he was 26 years old.

And joining us for some more discussion on the health of Pope John Paul II and really more about his legacy as a pontiff, the president of Catholic University here in Washington, the very Reverend David O'Connell.

Father O'Connell, good to have you with us.

REV. DAVID O'CONNELL, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Miles. And thanks for that good news about the pope.

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is good news. The things that we will always remember about the pope in his early days was his fight against communism. To what extent did that, do you think, shaped his papacy?

O'CONNELL: Well, you mentioned a few moments ago that he was born in 1920, so that gives you some historical sense of what the pope witnessed in the course of his life. And of course growing up in Poland, facing the Nazi threat there, and then subsequently the threat of communism. The pope was well-schooled and well-versed in what that meant, and I think it left a lasting impression on him, so much so as he entered the world arena in his role, he used his experience to serve as a backdrop for the work that he did.

O'BRIEN: When you say he entered the world arena, he did so in so many ways and so frequently. By far the most itinerant pope, he traveled the world many times over. Why was that important, do you think?

O'CONNELL: I think when you think about it, 750,000 miles, 133 countries, 850 heads of state. This was a man on the move, who was eager to spread his message. And his message was the gospel of Christ, and that was the thing that -- it energized him. That was the thing that made him want to touch people and be part of people's lives in a very real way.

O'BRIEN: And he electrified people along the way, and also along the way, with that magnetism, left an indelible imprint on the church, and really took the church down a conservative path. What is that legacy?

O'CONNELL: Well, when you think of it, this -- this is the only pope that 50 percent of the world has ever known. And it's a man who has been seen by more people than any other human being in the history of the world.

I know you mentioned that he -- he led the church down a conservative path. You know, I'm not quite sure what that means. His responsibility, as the vicar of Christ and successor of St. Peter, was to hand on the tradition, whole and entire. And he saw that as a very important responsibility, and that was his teaching. That was his message, the tradition as it had been handed on to him.

Developed over history, yes, for sure, and applied in a different way in our era -- in our era, but the tradition, the gospel of the church as it was handed on to him from the apostles.

O'BRIEN: The pope is -- has a unique position as a world leader, and yet also a priest with a flock. That's got to be a difficult couple of worlds to straddle. Do you think that John Paul II successfully did that?

O'CONNELL: I think he did. And I think he knew what his priority was. His priority was always and everywhere the gospel of Christ. He was first and foremost a priest, a bishop, and a shepherd of the flock. Over one billion Catholics worldwide, 65 million in the United States alone. Tremendous responsibility on his shoulders.

O'BRIEN: Do you care to speculate on how -- when the history books are finally written on his papacy, what aspect of his papacy he'd like to be remembered for, if you had to pick one thing?

O'CONNELL: It would be very hard to pick for one thing. I think he'll be remembered for his teaching, his fidelity to teaching. I think he'll also be remembered in a special way for his contribution to inter-religious, interfaith dialogue, very important to this pontiff.

O'BRIEN: The very Reverend David O'Connell, president of Catholic University in Washington, thanks for your time.

O'CONNELL: Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Judy.

WOODRUFF: Thanks, Miles.

Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll get reaction from Catholics here in the United States. Our Brian Todd is standing by at the Catholic University here in Washington. We just heard from the university's president.

And Mary Snow is at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... the world, from all religions, many we spoke to today offering good wishes and prayers for this pope. This is also one of the largest Catholic populations in the United States. The New York archdiocese estimates there are between three and four million Catholics here.

Also noting that the pope has a special relationship with the cathedral. He visited New York City twice, once in 1979, and one in 1995. Two plaques commemorating his visit clearly stand right in the front of this cathedral. Also some remembrances of him inside the cathedral, including a portrait.

There are going to be some special prayers for him offered. There's a daily mass that is going to begin in a very short time. And also tomorrow morning, Cardinal Eagan will be celebrating mass here. The archdiocese saying there will be a special remembrance.

And one parishioner I spoke with saying this is a very sad time for Catholics, also a time to contemplate -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Mary, how would you describe the size of the crowd or number of people coming and going there at St. Patrick's?

SNOW: There is a sizable crowd here today, but again there are always a number of tourists from around the world who come in and out of this church on a daily basis. But there was a good number of people inside the cathedral, and it's anticipated that more people will be coming for the mass that starts in a short time.

WOODRUFF: And all that, of course, in inclement weather. We can tell that it's snowing there in New York City. Mary, thank you very much at St. Patrick's.

Now to Miles O'Brien, my colleague, who's with me.

O'BRIEN: As we've been showing you there's great concern around the world for the pope and the surgery he underwent just a few hours ago. CNN's Brian Todd is at the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center in Washington with reaction from there -- Brian.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, this is a very popular crossroads for the Catholic community here in Washington, D.C. It's a sprawling complex. People come here every day. A great many people come every day to -- to do research, to visit the museums. There are two museums in this complex.

Right now I'm joined by Monsignor Malcolm -- excuse me, William Kerr, the executive director of the Pope John Paul II Cultural Center.

Sir, can you gauge for us the reaction of the Catholic community here in Washington, D.C., to the news today of the pope's surgery?

MONSIGNOR WILLIAM KERR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, POPE JOHN PAUL II CULTURAL CENTER: Brian, I'd say it's very much like a family with a beloved member who is gravely ill. We know he is gravely ill. We watch every release that we are able to get. We're sad, but we're joyful again when we comes back, seemingly, to an active life. But we know that he's very sick.

TODD: As I mentioned, there are two museums in this complex. We're going to pan over here and show you some of the -- one of the artifacts on display. This is a cassock, cape and sash worn throughout the 1980s.

There are hundreds of artifacts like this in this center. This is a sprawling complex that opened in March of 2001.

And I want to ask Monsignor Kerr, again, the pope had a very powerful but unique inspiration for this center.

KERR: Well, he did, Brian. Actually, the person who came with the idea to the pope was Cardinal Maida of Detroit, Michigan. When he presented this idea to the pope, he had in mind a presidential library, something along those lines, named after the pope.

The pope had two requests: No. 1, that it not be a monument to himself, but that it be a learning center, that it be a center where the wisdom of faith could interact with the cultures of the world.

And the second request was that it be in Washington, D.C., which the pope felt was the crossroads of the world.

TODD: Well, thank you very much and the best of luck to you and the community here who are monitoring the pope's health.

I do need to point out, Miles, that normally on a day like today, when the pope's health is in the news and being reported on, there are many, many people coming here. But we have a driving snowstorm outside, and it's -- there aren't too many here right now, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's hope everybody stays safe. Brian Todd, thank you very much -- Judy. WOODRUFF: And Miles, our coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We're going to look back at his past health problems with our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and we'll get a live update from Rome.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Welcome back. The Vatican announces the pope is now out of surgery and will spend the night in his own hospital room. We'll have a live update from Rome. Live pictures there of the Gemelli hospital, tenth floor, where the pope is said to be tranquil and conscious following his tracheotomy procedure.

First, before we do more on the pope coverage, a few of the other stories that we are following at this hour for you.

Police in Tyler, Texas, say a man with a gun has killed at least two people and wounded at least three others. The shooting took place outside the country courthouse. Police said the gunman was shot and is in custody. No word on his condition. Tyler, Texas, about 95 miles east of Dallas.

President Bush met with Russia's president, Vladimir Putin, in Slovakia today, the final day of Mr. Bush's European tour. The two leaders say they agree neither Iran nor North Korea should be allowed to have nuclear weapons. President Bush called on Mr. Putin to reaffirm his commitment to democracy.

A car bomb exploded at a police station in Tikrit, killing at least a dozen officers. Four other officers were killed in Iraq, and two U.S. soldiers died in roadside bombings.

WOODRUFF: Now back to our main story, the pope's health. Pope John Paul II had emergency surgery just a short while ago. CNN's Jim Bittermann joins us from Rome with the latest.

Jim, you are at the Gemelli Hospital. We believe the surgery ended a little more than, what, 2 1/2 hours, ago so what information are you getting since then?

BITTERMANN: Well, we've had a couple things. First, we had the hospital spokesman come out and read a statement from the Vatican, a very carefully worded statement, saying basically that the pope's operation had been successful and the pope was going to spend the night here at the hospital in his room, not in intensive care.

Then shortly thereafter, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's spokesman went up to the papal suite on the tenth floor here at the hospital, and when he came down, he talked to journalists. And here's a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LETTA (through translator): When he woke up with the same spirit, he went like this with his hand, as if he wanted to say, "I'm still going to approach you." So it means he's fine. The doctors are satisfied with the way he has undergone the surgery and also as far as the first hours after the surgery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BITTERMANN: Gianni Letta there, the prime minister's spokesman, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's spokesman, after going up to the suite up on the tenth floor here at the hospital and seeing the pope.

So for all intents and purposes, what we know now, Judy, is that the pope went through this tracheotomy, that it was successful, at least for now. But as we've heard repeatedly earlier in the evening, frankly it's up to what happens next, I mean, the way he recovers from this tracheotomy. A tracheotomy itself a fairly simple operation, but it's really what happens afterwards and the papal recovery that everyone will be watching -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jim, this is a rather small point, but the prime minister's spokesman, he -- he, I think, used a gesture with his hand. He did the pope gesture. Were you able to see what -- what he did with his hand there?

BITTERMANN: I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to, no. I didn't -- I wasn't able to see it. And I'm not sure exactly what he was referring to.

He also said that the pope had been joking with the doctors. But we've been given to understand that the pope can't speak after a tracheotomy, so I'm not sure exactly what he was trying to tell us.

WOODRUFF: Well, those are some of the questions we're going to continue to ask.

All right, Jim Bittermann outside of Gemelli Hospital -- Jim, thank you again.

In recent years, of course, there's been mounting concern about the pope's health.

CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us live now from the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Sanjay, we are hearing from the prime minister's spokesman that the pope, in his words, is conscious and serene. What does that tell you?

GUPTA: Well, I think those are very favorable signs for the pope so far, the operation, again, being a relatively simple operation.

Serene, he's probably still under some effects of the general anesthesia. And I think it is really going to take a few hours after the operation to be able to tell exactly how he's doing. When any patients comes to the hospital, Judy, doctors get a full medical history. With the pope, it's really no different.

We tried to get a medical history of sorts as well. Here's what we found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): When Pope John Paul II was elected in 1978, he was the picture of vitality. At 58, he was the youngest pope of the 20th century, an avid skier who seemed to travel constantly. He was seriously wounded in a 1981 assassination attempt, but he recovered and resumed an active pace.

Then, in 1992, the pope had surgery to removal an intestinal tumors, and symptoms of Parkinson's appeared. The pope dislocated his shoulder in a falls from some stairs in 1983, and suffered a broken thighbone the next year. In December of 1995, he missed Christmas mass because of the flu, and, in 1996, his health problems appeared to mount.

He canceled public appearances in March and August, because of what the Vatican describes as fevers of digestive nature. And, in October, his appendix was removed. In 1999, a fall forced the pope to cancel an outdoor mass in his native Poland. Increasingly frail, he canceled engagements in March of 2002, citing a flare-up of arthritis and in September of 2003 because of an intestinal ailment.

Then, earlier this month, he spent a week in the hospital with the flu.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And, as we've for so long, two hospitalizations now in a month. The first time around, Judy, he did not require any kind of endotracheal tube, a breathing tube of sorts.

We also ahead he didn't require antibiotics. This time, obviously, as everyone knows now, the operation having been performed to try and secure his airway, Judy.

WOODRUFF: Sanjay, we're having to depend on just fragments of information that we're getting. The last bit we got was from the spokesman for the Italian prime minister, who said the pope is conscious. He said this about two hours after the surgery had ended, we believe. Does that sound about normal to you?

GUPTA: Yes.

I think that, at two hours after the operation, it's very reasonable to think that the pope would be conscious, maybe even able to gesture, as I think he indicated as well. As to whether or not he's regained back to 100 percent of his mental faculties, really being able to think through things, that is going to take some time, obviously.

I'm sure he knows where he is. He fully understands the procedure he just had done. But sort of I think he'll continue to be tested throughout the night and tomorrow as well to see when he gets back to 100 percent. WOODRUFF: Sanjay, obviously everyone hopes that the pontiff will continue to get better, get completely better. But what are some possible complications of a tracheotomy?

GUPTA: Well, the biggest concern really is less with the operation itself than with the general anesthesia.

And this is an important point. You can look at how the procedure is done there. An incision is actually made in the neck and then the tracheotomy device is actually placed there. Certainly, we've heard that the operation itself was successful.

But the whole point of this operation, Judy, is to make that sure he's getting enough oxygenated blood to the rest of his body, particularly his brain. So, some of the complications, possible complications, I should say, of an operation like this would be that he did not get enough air into his bloodstream for a period of time, which would cause some symptoms in his brain or in the rest of his body.

He could have problems with bleeding around the trache site. Again, nobody is saying any of these things have happened. The biggest concern, giving his age, 84, and the existing medical problem of Parkinson's disease, among others, would just be to see how he wakes up from the general anesthesia. Did he have any problems with his heart during the operation? Did he have any additional problems with his breathing during the operation?

These are all things that, again, you need a few hours to really decipher and to ensure that none of that stuff happened, Judy.

WOODRUFF: OK, Sanjay Gupta, who, as we point out from time to time, is not only CNN's medical correspondent, is a trained neurosurgeon, Sanjay, thank you very much.

So, Miles, we're reading the tea leaves, but with some people who know what they're talking about.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Reading the tea leaves, and, so far, things look good as far as the pope's condition. Of course, a lot of questions about what happens next.

For more on that, let's go to our CNN Vatican analyst Delia Gallagher. She's at our Rome bureau.

Delia, a priest who is very close to the pope is quoted as saying people are just going to have to get used to the fact that the pope is going to need to visit the hospital a little bit. But, nevertheless, and perhaps as a result of all that, there's a lot of talk, a lot of speculation, as to whether the pope might tender his resignation at some point.

Are you hearing anything along those lines?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, no. There's discussion, of course, as there has been in the past few months, about a possible resignation. But all indications, Miles, seem to suggest that this pope has no intention of resigning. He doesn't consider the papacy a job. He considers it a vocation, a vocation for a lifetime, and a vocation which comes from God, and therefore God will decide when he's going to quit, which would mean for the pope when he dies.

So, although there has been speculation about a resignation, and a resignation is certainly possible, within the rules of the Catholic Church, but it must be the pope who decides that resignation, and he must write of his own free will and with all of his mental faculties that he wishes to resign. So that looks unlikely, Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, I think a lot of people do get confused, because the pope, in addition to being a religious leader, of course, plays a role on the world stage as well.

What is happening, though, with just the machinations of the church, the day-to-day running of the church? Presumably, that can all be delegated. But are there matters that the pope needs to attend to?

GALLAGHER: Well, there would be some decisions to be made, for example, on the signing off of saints, or for the making of bishops, or for declaring a document infallible, that is, the truth of the church that cannot be changed.

Those are things that are reserved particularly to the pope and those decisions would have to be postponed until he's back at the Vatican. However, for the day-to-day operations, the church has been going under this pontificate for 26 years. He has all of his cardinals in place.

And so the offices continue on a day-to-day basis doing their work. And for that, they don't necessarily have to have the pope's presence in the Vatican. But, of course, as you say, he's also a spiritual and moral leader, so his presence is very important on many other levels -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Delia, give us a sense. You are as connected as anybody there. Give us a sense of the kind of flow of information that's coming out right now.

There's a tendency in these cases to be not completely forthcoming for privacy reasons and other reasons related to the leadership of the church. How much are you hearing?

GALLAGHER: Well, the Vatican, of course, gives as little information as they deem necessary, which means about one update a day.

So, even the information that we've gotten this evening has been a bonus. But, on the other hand, you know, they consider that the pope's health is both a private and a public matter, so they have to be very careful in terms of that. But the information flow here is generally much slower than what we are used to in other areas in governments and business and so on. So we have to be sensitive to that as well and accept what they say as being the truth, because we know, of course, that we're going to see him eventually. So we also have this way of balancing what they are telling us with what we actually can see, because the pope comes back out.

As soon as he comes back to the Vatican, he likes to get back out and get on the world stage. So we're able to temper a little bit with that information with what we can see with our own eyes -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: The church is not a democracy by any means. Delia Gallagher, in Rome, thank you very much -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Miles, our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll talk about the future of the Catholic Church with Father Thomas Reese. He's editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America" magazine.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Live pictures of Rome, the Gemelli Polyclinic Hospital. On the 10th floor, Pope John Paul II rests, recovering from surgery.

Suffering from a respiratory ailment, the pope has undergone an operation, a tracheotomy, to help his breathing.

Joining me now from New York is CNN papal analyst the Reverend Thomas Reese. He's editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America."

Father Reese, our analysts have said they don't believe this pope would willingly resign. Do you agree?

FATHER THOMAS REESE, CNN PAPAL ANALYST: Yes.

I think that the pope sees the job of being pope as not just a job, but really a vocation, a mission that he has received from God. And he's not going to lay that aside just because he's in pain or suffering. He's going to keep at that job and not quit.

On the other hand, if he feels that, for the good of the church, he needs to step aside, he would do that, because all his life has been dedicated to the service of the church, to the good of the church. So, if he gets to the point where he feels that, for the good of the church, he would need to step aside, I think he would do it.

WOODRUFF: Well, everyone hopes, of course, that he makes a complete recoveries. But, if he didn't, whether he was still alive or not, what exactly are the procedures that would take place?

REESE: Well, the pope, of course, has had a number of years to surround himself with people to run the Vatican offices, people he trusts, people that he can delegate certain responsibilities to. So, you know, the normal work of the church can continue on.

And, of course, in parishes and diocese around the world, masses are happening. Sacraments are being received. There are bishops there. But there are certain things that the pope has to do. For example, if a bishop dies, he is the one who's involved in the appointment of his successor. If a major document is going to be released from the Vatican, he's the one who has to approve it.

Or, you know, if some of the Vatican officials are in disagreement among themselves, well, he's the one they have to go to who makes the final decision. To the extent that he is weakened and cannot function like he used to, it's going to be more and more difficult for him to deal with those kinds of issues.

WOODRUFF: What are you hearing from inside the Vatican?

REESE: Well, I think what we're hearing is a real concern for the pope. You know, he's surrounded by people who have worked with him a long time, who want to protect him, who want him to be taken care of.

They're praying for him. But, at the same time, they're also thinking about the good of the church. And, you know, they're looking at this and wondering, how long can this go on? Unless he has a much fuller recovery, where he can really give more attention to the work of the church, we're going to be facing some serious difficulties.

WOODRUFF: Are there obvious candidates to replace him?

REESE: Well, there's numerous candidates that are being discussed by people, but the cardinals don't really get serious about this until the pope dies. And then, of course, they gather in Rome 15 days after the death of the pope to elect a new pope.

There's three or four Italians that are being spoken of, a couple Africans, three or more Latin American cardinals that are being mentioned. No Americans, however, are on anybody's list.

WOODRUFF: We're going to leave it there. Father Thomas Reese is editor in chief of "The Catholic Weekly America."

Father Reese, thank you very much -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. We'll get more reaction from Catholics in New York City, our Mary Snow standing by at Saint Patrick's Cathedral.

This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Pope John Paul II on the 10th floor of this building in Rome, the Gemelli Polyclinic Hospital, recovering from a tracheotomy after some sort of respiratory problems. He's said to be conscious, tranquil and serene and appears to be on a road to recovery. We're watching it very closely for you. As Catholics around the world keep the vigil for Pope John Paul II, let's check in once again with CNN's Mary Snow. She's in Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, every evening around this time, there's a daily mass. There's one going on right now, a few dozen people inside Saint Patrick's Cathedral, but a not-so- ordinary start to the mass.

Monsignor Clark came out giving parishioners an update on the pope's condition, asking for prayers for the pope, also remembering him, saying that he served us well, in his words, saying that he was a great advocate of a free Europe, also saying that his presence was felt very deeply in many places he traveled, including in New York.

The pope did come here on two occasions, including Saint Patrick's Cathedral. And here today, we spoke with some New Yorkers about their feelings about the pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For many Catholics, yes, it is a sad time and a time to contemplate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His legacy for the world is going to be helping it with the downfall of communism and, you know, really, I guess, making the Catholic Church a bit more conservative than what it was, no matter how you really feel (INAUDIBLE) so...

SNOW: Do you think that he'll be missed by -- not that he's going anywhere, but do you think that this would be a big loss for the Catholic Church?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. Sure, it will be, because he's a very strong leader. And, hopefully, he'll be OK.

SNOW: Great. Thank you so much. Can I have your name?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: And some of the New Yorkers remembering also the pope's visit here to New York that included everything from an open-air mass in Central Park to visits to the two big stadiums here, Yankee Stadium and Shea Stadium, also here at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, where two plaques sit at the entrance to this cathedral, also someone remembering that the last visit he made here in 1995, he had an impromptu walk down 50th Street for a block that no one quite expected.

Now, tomorrow, also, Cardinal Egan will be holding a mass tomorrow morning with a special remembrance for Pope John Paul II -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And, Mary, I had the chance to follow the pope around on one of his trips back in 1986 and at some of these huge stadiums, thousands and thousands of people. You just could hear a pin drop. He really had a way of captivating the faithful.

Have you gotten a sense of that today in talking to Catholics there in New York City?

SNOW: Yes, certainly, Miles. That is one thing that they echoed, your sentiments, and also pointing out that there's a generation that has grown up with this pope.

One of the women I was speaking with said that he seemed to have a big effect on young people, especially during those trips. And, you know, just talking across the board, that so many visitors come here on a daily basis from around the world, and people we were speaking with who are not even Catholic saying that they felt that he had such a presence and a way with people -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: CNN's Mary Snow, on a snowy Fifth Avenue at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, thank you very much -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: And, Miles, I've just been handed a statement. It is about, what, just about six minutes before 6:00 in The east, which means it's just before midnight in Rome.

From the White House, from President Bush himself, this statement: "On behalf of all Americans, Laura and I send our heartfelt best wishes to Pope John Paul II. The holy father is in our thoughts and prayers. And we wish him a speedy recovery and a return to the service of his church and all of humanity," this statement coming in to CNN just a few moments ago from the White House, and, again, a personal statement on the part of President Bush.

Well, our live coverage of the pope's surgery continues. This is a special edition of WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: Live pictures from Rome, Gemelli Hospital. Pope John Paul II is there.

Here now is the latest on the condition of the pope. The Vatican says a successful tracheotomy was carried out a few hours ago to ease the pope's breathing. It was a 30-minute operation. It was done just hours after the 84-year-old pope was rushed to a hospital in Rome with what the Vatican said was a relapse of the flu for the second time in a month. A spokesman for the Italian prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, says the pope is -- quote -- "fine" and he is "tranquil." And he went on to say, "Everything is going well."

I'm here with my colleague Miles O'Brien in Washington today.

Miles, this is one of those stories, the whole world is riveted on this.

O'BRIEN: The whole world is riveted, and not a lot of information comes out.

And I think it's worth reminding people that, when the term flu is used here, it's used in a very broad sense. There are a lot of people who suffer from Parkinson's disease, as the pontiff does, who battle pneumonia and other respiratory diseases as a result of that. And perhaps what we're talking about when we say flu is something else. But, nevertheless, we're watching all of this very closely at Gemelli Hospital.

WOODRUFF: And put it all together.

Miles O'Brien, thanks very much.

And we want to urge you to stay with CNN for continuing live coverage from Rome and from around the world on the health of the pope.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for joining us.

For our international viewers, "CNN TODAY" will be next. For our viewers in the United States, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.

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