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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Pat Roberts Interview; Watergate and Deep Throat; Cleaning Up After Dennis; Londoners Return to Business as Usual; Investigators Search for Bombing Culprits

Aired July 11, 2005 - 17:00   ET


WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Aftermath of Hurricane Dennis. And we're tracking another storm in the Atlantic, now called Tropical Depression No. 5, but it soon could be named Emily.
Stand by for hard news on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS.


BLITZER (voice-over): The day after Dennis. Tallying damage and counting blessings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been here all my life. This is the most water we've ever, ever had.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the grand scheme of things, compared to Hurricane Ivan, we fared very well.

BLITZER: Back to business. London starts a new work week, under tight security and nagging fear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think everyone has to think about what happened. To you know, just consider that it is, of course, very frightening.

BLITZER: Changing rules. A leading magazine, a top reporter do what was once unthinkable: reveal their source. We'll talk about the impact with the journalists whose own source changed American history: Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein.

ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Monday, July 11, 2005.


BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us. It could have been much worse but as the storm once called Hurricane Dennis moved out of the southeast, it's left behind at least -- at least $1 billion in damage. It's also left floodwaters and flood warnings over a wide area.

Now downgraded to a tropical depression, Dennis drifted into the Ohio River Valley earlier today.

During its trek through the Southeast, Dennis left almost 900,000 power customers without service. It also caused at least one death, a Georgia man killed in his home in the middle of night when a tree fell on his house.

We have the latest on the storm and its damage from CNN's Dan Lothian. He's joining us in Pensacola Beach, Florida. From CNN's Jacqui Jeras of the CNN Weather Center. But let's start with Dan.

Dan, what is the latest?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, there's been a lot of cleanup going on now after Dennis has moved through this area. More than 1,000 -- more than 1,000 electrical folks here on site, trying to restore power to all those who have been left without the power.

Many of those folks got a chance to go back to their homes for the first time today. We're told that more folks, perhaps as many as 2,000 or so, will be coming to the area to assist in returning the power in this area. Everyone trying to get everything back on track after Dennis came through here.


LOTHIAN (voice-over): Hurricane Dennis may not have been Ivan, but it did step on Pensacola Beach, leaving this footprint in the sand: small sailboats in a pile, light poles, power lines and trees knocked down, roofless buildings and a mountain of debris.

The scaffolding from a building that was being repaired from Ivan was sheared off and tossed into a nearby visitor's center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a broken window and scaffolding came down and punched three or four holes in the middle roof.

LOTHIAN: After being forced to evacuate, some residents were finally allowed to return to their homes. But along Pensacola Beach, there's a sense that Dennis could have been much worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have roofs missing, yes, but we don't have whole walls missing. We don't have whole buildings gone. There are damages, but we can fix them. We've done it before.

LOTHIAN: One of the hardest hit Florida communities was St. Marks, a fishing village south of Tallahassee. This was St. Marks yesterday.

This is St. Marks today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything is -- has been under water in town. All the homes in town have been under water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We sell oysters, fish, shrimp, stuff like that, and it's going to take a long time to get -- get back in the swing of things after this. Because I'm sure it wiped out people's boats everywhere.

LOTHIAN: The storm remained powerful as it moved inland, knocking down trees and power lines and producing as much as nine inches of rain in the Atlanta area.

Streets were flooded. So were homes and businesses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Water inside, outside. Everywhere water.

LOTHIAN: The storm knocked a tree through the roof of a house in one Atlanta suburb, killing a man in his bedroom. The man's wife and children, who had gone to the basement, were unhurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's as good as they come. He has two young kids, a beautiful wife. And just it's a tragedy.


LOTHIAN: Back here along Pensacola Beach, I talked to one law enforcement official. I asked him how bad the storm -- he thought the storm really was. He said on a scale of one to 10, with Ivan being a 10, this one, he believed, was a three.

So folks feeling like they dodged a big one here but certainly knowing that there could be more coming down the road, because it's so early in the hurricane season -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Dan Lothian, reporting for us. Thanks, Dan, very much.

So where is Dennis right now? Let's check in with our meteorologist, Jacqui Jeras, at the CNN Weather Center -- Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Wolf, Dyersburg, Tennessee, is the location of the center. That's as of 5 p.m., at the top of the hour.

Dennis has been weakening gradually throughout the day today, and now the maximum sustained wins are around 25 miles an hour. Even though it has weakened significantly to a tropical depression, it still remains a significant flood threat.

And there you can see, the rain has been very heavy all day, especially in the boot hills of Missouri and the southern parts of Illinois, western Kentucky and in southwestern Indiana and also, the rain bands here across parts of Georgia and into Florida have been quite heavy.

The forecast track now for what's left of Dennis. It's going to start to slow down very significantly in forward speed tonight. And it's going to be stalling out the next few days in the Ohio River Valley. Rainfall amounts in this area should be ranging between three and six inches. So use a lot of caution traveling across this part of the country over the next couple of days.

Now that we're dealing with Dennis starting to fade out, we've got a new system that we do need to watch. It's a tropical depression, and the 5 p.m. advisory still holding onto depression status with maximum winds around 35 miles per hour. Could become Tropical Storm Emily by tomorrow. Those winds need to pick up about four more miles an hour -- Wolf.

BLITZER: We'll be watching that, this storm as well. Thanks very much, Jacqui Jeras, for that report.

Turning now to the latest developments in the London bombings. President Bush says the United States stands firmly behind the British as they recover from last week's terror attacks that killed 52 people.

Speaking today at the FBI Training Academy of Quantico, Virginia, the president vowed that the United States will never retreat in the fight against terror.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There will be tough fighting ahead. There will be difficult moments along the path to victory. The terrorists know they can't defeat us on the battlefield. The only way the terrorists can win is if we lose our nerve. That isn't going to happen on my watch.


BLITZER: In London, Prime Minister Tony Blair addressed the House of Commons, his first since Thursday's attack and pledged an intense manhunt for the bombers. And he praised the police and the first responders for their efforts.


TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I know of no intelligence specific enough to have allowed them to prevent last Thursday's attacks. By their very nature, people callous enough to kill completely innocent civilians in this way are hard to stop.

But our services and police do a heroic job for this country, day in, day out, and I can say over the past years as this particular type of new and awful terrorist threat has grown, they have done their utmost to keep this country and its people safe.


BLITZER: As investigators search for clues and more evidence into the bombings, the people of London are returning to their daily routines, knowing full well that uncertainty and fear from the attacks will always be in their minds.

CNN's John Vause has been talking to some of them.


JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The start of the work week and London, with its congested morning rush hour, at least appeared to be returning to normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Things bounced back quicker than even I thought it would. VAUSE: Almost all Underground services are now running again and, as police urge people to return to the city, London Mayor Ken Livingstone was on The Tube...

KEN LIVINGSTONE, MAYOR OF LONDON: We carry on with our lives. I think we have to stop thinking about last week.

VAUSE: ... along with millions of others making a jittery commute to work.

What wasn't normal, the sight of so many uniformed police at train stations with bomb-sniffing dogs and at bus stops, an attempt to reassure the public more than anything else.

But on bus No. 30, the thoughts here were simply it could have been us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has to think about what happened, and, you know, just considering that it's, of course, very frightening.

VAUSE: This was bus No. 30 on Thursday. Today in the distance, passengers could see the white plastic sheets covering the twisted wreckage. The bomb exploded towards the back on the upper deck. This morning those seats were empty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Everybody's downstairs. It's really bad. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

VAUSE: And with London police warning the bombers may still strike, there are fears this massive public transit system will never be truly safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, terrorism is so pervasive if it chooses to be, THAT there's no way to ultimately protect, so you just do what you do.

VAUSE (on camera): Many here in London with their "life must go on attitude" are doing precisely what their political leaders have asked: to ensure that Thursday's bomb blasts do not change their way of life.

John Vause, CNN, London.


BLITZER: For the latest on the investigation into the bombings, Let's go live to London, CNN's Zain Verjee standing by outside the King's Cross train and subway station.

Zain, what is the latest on the investigation?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, 52 people have been confirmed dead. That number is expected to rise. The authorities here are saying they don't expect to it go above 100 people dead. Meanwhile, right now there is a massive recovery effort going on about 100 feet below ground. In front of King's Cross Station is where I am. There are bodies trapped in the mangled wreckage there.

It's really difficult, authorities are saying, to get to the bodies. It's hot. It's about 140 degrees Fahrenheit. It is dusty; they're inhaling asbestos, so they are wearing masks to protect them. There are also rats running around. And it's also difficult to bring in equipment.

Also, remember, while they're trying to recover the bodies, it's also -- it's also a crime scene, so forensics experts are down there searching for clues, trying to analyze the kinds of explosives that were used, because that will help point the finger. It will identify who the perpetrators were.

Meanwhile, investigators don't appear, Wolf, to have a firm lead. They're casting the net very, very wide, consulting with international intelligence agencies, saying, "Look, here are the names we have. What do you have? What e-mails, what phone numbers do you have that we can compare?"

They're looking also at hundreds of hours of closed circuit television that they have to plow through. They've also asked the local community to come forward with tips and also to e-mail any of the images that anyone took on their mobile phones when they were down in the subway. That will help them try and piece together this investigation.

The home office, though, Wolf, saying don't expect a quick breakthrough -- Wolf.

BLITZER: CNN's Zain Verjee in London for us. Zain, thank you very much.

When we come back, cell service cut. We'll show you why some officials think it could help prevent another terror attack in New York City.

Also, the president's top advisor, Karl Rove, emerging as a possible key figure in a controversial case. We'll talk about that and more with the legendary Watergate reporters, Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein. They're standing by live.


BLITZER: There's been a stunning development in the investigation into the leak of a CIA officer's identity. Questions are being raised regarding the possibility -- the possibility the leaker may -- repeat may -- be Karl Rove, one of the president's closest advisors.

For two years, the White House has insisted that Rove had nothing to do with the leak.

President Bush has said that, if discovered, the leaker would be fired. But now one of Rove's own lawyers says his client spoke with at least one reporter about Valerie Plame's role at the CIA before she was identified in print by CNN political analyst and "Chicago Sun- Times" columnist Robert Novak.

The issue came up once again today during a rather tough exchange between reporters and White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.


DAVID GREGORY, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: You stood at that podium and said that Karl Rove was not involved, and now we find out that he spoke about Joseph Wilson's wife. So don't you owe the American public a fuller explanation? Was he involved or was he not? Because contrary to what you told the American people, he did indeed talk about his wife, didn't he?

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: David, there will be a time to talk about this, but now is not the time to talk about it.


BLITZER: The leak remains the focus of a federal criminal investigation. According to "Newsweek" magazine, Rove discussed the case with Matthew Cooper of our sister publication, "TIME" magazine before Novak's column was published.

Cooper had first said he'd go to jail instead of revealing his source. He later said he agreed to testify before a grand jury after getting clearance from his source.

However, "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller, who has never written about the case, refused to name her source. She was jailed for up to four months for contempt of court. She's sitting in jail right now.

Joining us now are two journalists whose careers were launched, in part, by their souse, known for three decades only as Deep Throat and the information he gave them that contributed significantly to their coverage of the Watergate scandal and the eventual downfall of President Nixon.

"Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward is in our Washington studio. He's the author of a new book, "The Secret Man: The Story of Watergate's Deep Throat." And in New York, Woodward's former "Washington Post" colleague, Carl Bernstein.

Thanks, guys, very much for joining us. And Bob, I'll start with you.

What do you make of this latest development involving Karl Rove?

BOB WOODWARD, AUTHOR, "THE SECRET MAN": I -- I think it's inconclusive at this point. You obviously can't tell, but I think what it highlights and what we're trying to do in this book about Deep Throat, it's kind of a case study about the importance of confidential sources.

And Carl points out in Watergate, like anyone covering this CIA story or any story in Washington, you have many, many sources. And you need to have relationships of trust so they can feel they're safe and protected. This investigation that's been going on for two years is just running like a chain saw right through the lifeline that reporters have to sources who will tell you the truth, what's really going on.

BLITZER: All right, Carl. What about you? What do you think?

CARL BERNSTEIN, FORMER "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER: Once again, the White House has tried to make the conduct of the press the issue by sending reporters to jail, the administration has, rather than the conduct of the men around the president of the United States, just as in Watergate.

What Bob has done in "The Secret Man" and what I've tried to do in the afterward to it is to describe what these confidential relationships are about and why they must be confidential. Not just with Deep Throat. We had literally dozens of sours, and they were all confidential. We couldn't have done the Watergate reporting if our sources weren't anonymous, if they didn't know that we were protecting them.

BLITZER: You write this in the book, Bob. Let me read it to you. "It is critical that confidential sources feel they would be protected for life. There needed to be a model out there where people could come forward or speak when contacted, knowing they would be protected."

What does the "TIME" magazine decision, our sister publication, the decision to go ahead and hand over Matt Cooper's notes to the federal prosecutor do to that model that you established?

WOODWARD: Well, I don't know enough about it. I just know one thing. Can you imagine Ben Bradlee, the former editor of the "Post," when the prosecutor comes knocking on his door and says, "Turn over Carl Bernstein's notes, or Woodward's notes." He you know -- we can't say on the air what Bradlee would have said to them.

And the reason is not just defiance, it is we need to be able to discover what's going on.

I mean, here Judy Miller is sitting in jail. She didn't even write a story about this. What are they going to do, go around to you, Wolf, and say, "Hey, did you ever talk to anyone about this story?" And so they march you down to the courthouse and say, "OK, go left. Go to the grand jury to testify or go to jail"?

We better wake up to what's going on in the seriousness on the assault on the First Amendment that's taking place right before our eyes.

BLITZER: Has the environment, Carl, changed over these past three decades? In other words, if you guys would have been subpoenaed in the '70s to come up and identify Deep Throat, would it have been different then, as opposed to now?

BERNSTEIN: It was different, because I was subpoenaed. Bob was out of the office that day. I was subpoenaed. Bradlee told me to get out of the office so I wouldn't accept the subpoena until he had consulted with the lawyers. I then came back to the office on his instructions, accepted the subpoena.

By then, my notes had been turned over to Katherine Graham, the publisher of "The Washington Post," who was also under subpoena. And Bradlee said that Katherine Graham is ready to go to jail, and I don't think the Nixon White House wants to have her in jail.

That is the difference between what Katherine Graham and the "Washington post" did and what "TIME" magazine, which is really part of a big entertainment company, which is part of the problem of our journalism today, that so many of our journalistic institutions see themselves as part of a larger entertainment conglomerate, instead of real reporters.

BLITZER: Are you suggesting that Normal Pearlstein, Bob -- Carl, of Time Inc., the editorial director, was responding to corporate pressures? Or simply concluding that "TIME" magazine was not above the law, the Supreme Court having decided they would not hear this case?

BERNSTEIN: I can't read Norman's mind, and I think Norman has a long and distinguished record in our business. However, I think he did the wrong thing here.

We're not above the law. What we say is we will protect our sources under any circumstances. If it means we have to go to jail to protect them, we will. The unfortunate Supreme Court decision which says that we don't have an absolute privilege puts us in that position.

But I think it's incumbent, just as it was on Katherine Graham, for people like Norman Pearlstein to say, "I'm ready to go to jail, as awful as that is, to protect this basic part of the way we do business so that people can know what the hell is going on."

BLITZER: Bob, did Norman Pearlstein make the right decision or the wrong decision?

WOODWARD: Carl's right. He's a man of conscience, and I'm sure he's been interviewed endlessly about why he did it. I'm telling you Ben Bradlee and Katherine Graham would not have done it.

BERNSTEIN: That's right.

WOODWARD: And that because what it is -- it's undermining the core function in journalism. If the people out there who watch television, read the newspapers, want public relations experts and spokespersons to define all of the news, fine, because that's exactly what's going to happen.

You have to be able to call people. I mean, Wolf, you know this. You lived by the unnamed source when you were covering the Pentagon during various wars and so forth. And if somebody is going to come by and sever that, then you will have the Pentagon spokesman on your show instead of somebody who's really trying to get to the bottom of what's going on.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, guys, because we have a lot more to talk about, including Deep Throat, what exactly was going on. More with Bob Woodward and Karl Bernstein. That's coming up.

And cell phones and terror. Why some officials think cutting some service might make New York City and other cities around the country safer.

The grim anniversary of a massacre. We'll meet one man who escaped Europe's bloodiest incident since World War II.

A gunman uses a toddler as a human shield. Now both are dead and police are on the defensive. Stay with us.


BLITZER: Back with us still, "Washington Post" reporter/editor Bob Woodward. He's the author of a new book, "The Secret Man: The Story of Watergate's Deep Throat." And former "Washington Post" reporter Carl Bernstein.

Bob, you write in the book, "The Secret Man," you write this. I'll put it up on the screen. "For some time, I had a fantasy that I could convince Felt" -- you were referring to Mark Felt, who was Deep Throat -- "to let me tell the full story of his role as Deep Throat. Many people, perhaps most people, would see him as a hero."

Having written that though, at the end of June, we did a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. We asked this question, was Deep Throat a hero? Thirty-nine percent said yes; 51 percent said no. Why do you think a majority don't regard him as a hero?

WOODWARD: Well, I just think dividing the world into heroes and not heroes doesn't quite work. I think what's very clear is that Mark Felt, like lots of sources, exercised an immense amount of courage and wisdom. He saw the cover-up. There was no place to go. And we were willing to make sure that he felt safe and protected.

And you know, is that heroic? I think as this case study makes clear, there are motives that are personal. There are motives about protecting the independence of the FBI. But basically, there's a whole lot of law breaking going on by the Nixon White House, and he didn't like it and was willing to help us.

BLITZER: Carl, how did you feel over those three decades when Mark Felt, the former No. 2 at the FBI, repeatedly lied publicly, lied in his own memoir about -- when he denied that he was Deep Throat. What did that say to you?

BERNSTEIN: It said to me that he did not want to be identified as Deep Throat, and it's one of the reasons why we didn't. And it's perfectly understandable, given his background.

The important thing that he did is at a moment when he was tested, he did the right thing. This business of heroism, you know, relationships with sources and sources of information themselves usually have ambiguous motives. And that's one of things you see in this book. It's one of the things you see in "All the President's Men" when we describe our relationships with other sources.

Interestingly enough, the one apparent source whose motive does not seem ambiguous is Karl Rove. His apparent motive was to smear somebody who disagreed with the administration to deflect attention from the real conduct of the White House, having to do with the war in Iraq.

And now the press has become the conduct once again. And we've got to ask ourselves, are we seeing the same kind of mentality toward the press, making it the issue instead of the issue of the conduct of the president and his men?

BLITZER: Well, very briefly, Carl, are you suggesting that there's another Watergate type of situation unfolding now?

BERNSTEIN: I think all situations are different. I think that obviously when you see Scott McClellan there today, you have an indication of the disingenuousness that has attended this episode from the point of view of the White House. To say that the Nixon White House was disingenuous, is an understatement and I think we also have a record of disingenuousness by this administration. You've got to judge things in their real time, not by comparison with others. But some pretty bad things seem to be happening here.

BLITZER: Let me put out another quote up from the book, Bob, and I'll read it, " I am disappointed and a little angry at both myself and him (Mark Felt) for never digging out a more exacting explanation, a clearer statement of his reasoning and motivation." To this very day, you don't know and presumably given his age, none of us will ever know what motived Mark Felt.

WOODWARD: Well, I think we do, and actions speak louder than words. He was willing to help. He'd been passed over as FBI director. Clearly was disappointed, if not in a rage, about that. Any human motivation tends to have four or five layers. They are all laid out here.

What's interesting is: We don't know exactly, what motivated Richard Nixon at times, particularly for the former president while he was in the White House to think he could get away with all of the crimes and abuses that we now know about, particularly from his secret tape recordings.

It is an appalling story. If -- what you were asking Carl about Karl Rove -- I don't know what this incident involving the leaked CIA agent is about or where it's going, but the point is these things start very small and they can become incredibly large.

But the ability of the government or in this case, a prosecutor, to sever the fragile thread that leads you from one step to the next to discover what's going on, this -- that can be severed at any point.

And the atmosphere that is coming from all of this is incredibly negative and the losers -- the big losers are the public, because people are going to say: Oh, jeeze, Carl Bernstein is on the phone. I better not talk to him, because why bother, I'm going to only going to get in trouble.

Karl Rove has been called before the grand jury three times. He's hired a lawyer. Next time a reporter calls him about something that might sensitive, you think he is going to say: Oh, I can hardly wait to take that call?

BLITZER: Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein bringing us their thoughts, reunited 30 years after the initial story broke. I want to thank both of you for joining us. Bob Wooodward's new book, once again, entitled "The Secret Man: The Story of Watergate's Deep Throat." Carl Bernstein has an afterward in that book, as well.

Thanks, guys, very much for joining us.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

BLITZER: Let's get a quick check now of some other stories "Now in the News."

They're tallying the damage in the Florida panhandle from Hurricane Dennis whose remnants are now a tropical depression bringing heavy rain and flooding to parts of the south east and Ohio River valley. Georgia reports one death from the storm: an Atlanta-area man killed by a falling tree.

Los Angeles Police Chief William Bratton is defending his officers who shot back at a man who was using his 19-month-old daughter as a shield. The girl was killed, but it's not clear yet whether her father or whether police fired the fatal shot. The father also died and a police officer was wounded.

The three-day count down continues for NASA's first space shuttle launch since the 2003 Columbia disaster. The count down began last night. The shuttle Discovery is scheduled to take off Wednesday.

They're used by the thousands -- by millions of people each day: You're looking live at one of New York City's tunnels right now, where officials took an unusual step to prevent terror attacks.

Also, we'll get some special insights into the London terror attacks. I'll speak with the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Pat Roberts.

Plus: Thousands gathering to remember a massacre. We'll hear the amazing story of one young man who escaped.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: For the past few days New Yorkers have been unable to use their cell phones in the car tunnels leading to and from Manhattan. Service was discontinued as a security measure, but now it's being restored, at least in some places. Both decisions are provoking debate.

Our Mary Snow is joining us now, live from Holland Tunnel. Mary, what's going on?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we're on the New Jersey side of the Holland Tunnel. This is one of two tunnels linking New Jersey and New York. Cell service here has not been restored. It has been restored at two other tunnels. The happened this afternoon, but the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey saying this evening that service here will stay suspended until further notice.


SNOW (voice-over): Authorities say immediately after Thursday's bombing attacks in London, officials in New York cut cell phone service used by drivers in the four under water tunnels into Manhattan. Without elaborating, the agencies overseeing them cited security concerns for the unprecedented move.

In the past, New York's tunnels have been cited by law enforcement as potential terrorist targets and security experts say terrorists have used cell phones to detonate explosives.

DAVID HARVILLE, CRITERION STRATEGIES; Recognizing that the tunnels in Manhattan are a potential terrorist target and that cell phones can be used as tools for terrorists to detonate explosive devices, shutting down cell phone usage in there helps to minimize that risk.

SNOW: The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey says it suspended the services as security precaution. It did not mention any specific threats, but points out it is in constant contact with local, state, and federal agencies.

New York's police commissioner made it clear the decision was not ordered by the police department. He and others, have urged people to report suspicious packages and suggests having cell phones operating in tunnels is beneficial.

COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NEW YORK POLICE: I think it's good to be able to communicate from tunnels in the subway system, if possible. I know there's an effort to enable cell phones to work in subway systems. Generally speaking, I think that's a good idea.

SNOW: Mainly because of shear size of New York's underground subway system and what it would cost, it has never been wired for cell phone service. But cell phone service has been operating in roadway tunnels for several years and there are mixed feelings about cutting it.

TAYLOR ALEXANDER, NEW YORK DRIVER: I'm all for it if it's for safety, because I don't want to be nowhere (sic) that somebody could detonate a bomb from a cell phone, from a distance.

CHARLES BOYD, NEW YORK DRIVER: One of my worst nightmares is driving through the tunnel. And I had nightmares about that today.

CHUONG NGHIEN, NEW YORK DRIVER: I think, like, if you got trapped in there, you can't, like, use it though, you know, so I don't think it's a good idea.

SNOW: And Wolf, this tunnel is nearly two miles long. Traffic, you might be able to see, is flowing smoothly right now, so it could take anywhere from several minutes. However, during rush hour, it can take up to 20 minutes, sometimes up to a half-hour if there's a lot of traffic. So people are really divided on whether or not having no access to their cell phones during that time is a good idea. Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. I've been those tunnels, and I can totally understand and relate. Thanks very much, Mary Snow, for that report.

Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts has just returned from the U.S. Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Coming up, he'll talk about that with us. We'll talk about that, the war on terror, what's happening in Iraq and more.

And a somber anniversary 10 years after the Srebrenica massacre. We'll hear from a survivor.


BLITZER: It was Europe's worst atrocity since World War II. Ten years ago, Bosnia-Serb forces began slaughtering Muslim men and boys from the town of Srebrenica, killing almost 8,000 in all. Today a crowd more than three times that size gathered in the killing fields to mark the milestone and bury more than 600 of the most recently identified victims. CNN's Brian Todd spoke with one young man from Srebrenica who barely escaped that horror. We want to warn you, this report contains some graphic images you might find disturbing.


BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Elvir Mujic, looks like he's got no limitations -- 28 years old, college educated, newly married, decent connections, living in the D.C. suburbs, prospect he could hardly have imagined when was one wrong turn away from not making it out of his teens.

ELVIR MUJIC, SREBRENICA SURVIVOR: My childhood really stopped.

TODD: Early July, 1995. Srebrenica -- the Bosnian town where Elvir Mujic has lived all his life, where he grew up with a huge extended Muslim family -- is squarely in the sites of a murderous Bosnian-Serb force. The town's been declared a safe zone for Muslims by the United Nations, with the Dutch U.N. force assigned to protect it. The term "safe zone" is fast becoming a horrible joke.

MUJIC: They promised that they are there, that nothing will happen, that we can sleep freely, that -- all these nice words and everything. But when the moment comes that all that is the opposite, what we heard, it's really -- there's not much to say. It just -- mistrust.

TODD: For months in early 1995, Mujic says, the Dutch U.N. troops failed to protect Srebrenica from Serb's shelling. By early July, with Bosnian-Serbs closing in, demanding that Muslim civilians turn themselves in, Mujic says some members of his family decide to stay. Others head out in different directions. Elvir makes a fateful choice: sneaking out of town with a small group of friends and relatives heading south.

MUJIC: Why, I don't know, but at the moment of that situation, you don't really have a chance to think clearly.

TODD: He thinks clearly enough to spend weeks hiding in the mountains. Back home, the unimaginable: Bosnian-Serb units, under the command of General Radko Mladic, have overrun Srebrenica with little or no opposition from Dutch U.N. forces.

The Serbs separate Muslim men and boys from their families. In the course of several days, up to 8,000 Muslims are slaughtered. Elvir Mujic says that includes at least 10 members of his extended family. He's certain his older brother, Nejib, and two brothers-in- law, who he says have never been found, are among the dead.

MUJIC: Horrible things happening there. You know, it's hard to -- you can hear stories from different people who lived through what they lived through. But for me, personally, I just have to say that I'm really lucky that I made this decision to move opposite direction.

TODD: Lucky is relative. Mujic says he was eventually taken in by Serb forces, spent six months being beaten and starved in prison camps. With the help of relief groups and others, he was released, taken to the United States, sponsored by an American family. He got through college and met his wife in the U.S. -- good fortune at a price. His parents, six brothers and sisters survived but spread out all over the world.

(On camera.) These days, Elvir Mujic does volunteer work here at the Bosnian embassy in Washington. But in the future, he wants to take part in humanitarian missions. And he points out a couple of special skills. With his experience, he says, he can often predict when bad things are going to happen, and he knows how people think when they're desperate.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.


BLITZER: We'll be right back.


BLITZER: The London terror attacks, the war in Iraq, Guantanamo: Our next guest our next guest has insight into all three. He's the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Republican Senator Pat Roberts joining us now live from Capitol Hill. Senator, thanks very much for joining us.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: It's a pleasure, Wolf. Thank you.

BLITZER: Do you have a good sense who is responsible for the London terror attacks?

ROBERTS: I'll just say two words: al Qaeda. I -- everything mirrors -- is a copy-cat operation from Casa Blanca and in regards to Madrid. And the synchronized bombing, all of it adds up to al Qaeda. I know that they have networks within networks.

I know, in visiting GITMO down in Cuba, where we have senior leadership of al Qaeda -- those that -- who have not been killed, they went to the same camps, the same training. So, my personal view is that whether you want to call it a brother of or a cousin of, or son of al Qaeda, certainly that has the ideology and the same format -- same plan.

BLITZER: But is it one al Qaeda that's coordinated by Osama bin Laden or by surrogates or sympathizers or Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, terrorist number one in Iraq?

ROBERTS: I don't think it makes much difference. I think you're going to connect the dots eventually and by the way, at GITMO we are receiving very good current intelligence. As I've indicated, that's the senior leadership. They know who comes up through the ranks to replace them and there's a lot of good information that will help us connect the dots to determine the answer of your question that basically, it's an ideological war. They us use the same tactics and so, basically they are trying to accomplish the goals as stated by Osama bin Laden.

BLITZER: You were just there at the U.S. Naval base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba -- the detention center. More than 500 detainees still being held. Are you comfortable that they're simply being held and they're not necessarily, at least so far, have all the legal protects that some would like?

ROBERTS: Well, basically they are allowing some lawyers in now and that's still a court case, but there's some pretty bad characters down there; some very nasty fellows. They are letting four go now, but the review process has to be very careful, has to be very slow.

You don't want to let anybody know and then there's always a problem of a -- you know, where do they go, who accepts them? They would get back on the battlefield. I think that's happened in the past on a very small basis.

But basically, what we found is that the intelligence that we are gathering through the proper interrogation procedures -- we're using carrots not sticks. It is current. It can help, as I say, could put in the full mosaic or connect the dots even to London. And so, it's very valuable.

The other thing that I would say is: That there is absolute humane treatment. The healthcare facility I saw there is better than many of the hospitals I have in my state. We strictly observer their religious observances: All the the prayers, five times a day.

They have 113 Muslim dishes, in regard to their food. If they comply, they're playing -- if they're behave, they're playing soccer. It's not a place you would want to be over a long period of time, but it is certainly a humane camp.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, Senator, we're all out of time, but we're going to continue this conversation down the road. The chairman of the Intelligence Committee, Pat Roberts. Thanks very much.

ROBERTS: I look forward to it. Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

Twenty-one years ago tomorrow, Geraldine Ferraro became the first woman to be nominated by a major party for vice president of the United States. It's part of CNN's anniversary series "Then and now."

We take a look back at Geraldine Ferraro and where she is right now.

Here's CNN's Paula Zahn.


PAULA ZAHN, HOST, "PAULA ZAHN NOW": Political history was made when 1984 Democratic presidential candidate, Walter Mondale, named New York Congresswoman Geraldine Ferraro as his running mate. It was the first time a woman was a contender for the country's second highest office on a major party ticket.

GERALDINE FERRARO, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT CANDIDATE: Whether it was a rally, whether it was a press conference, whether it was a debate against the vice president of the United States, my biggest concern when I walked in was making sure that I did it right and didn't let down the women.

ZAHN: The reelection of the Ronald Reagan ended her executive office hopes, but Ferraro went on to server as a U.S. ambassador and after leaving government, hosted CNN's "CROSSFIRE."

In 1998, while campaigning for a Senate seat, Ferraro was diagnosed with multiple myeloma, a very rare and often fatal blood cancer. She is now in what her doctors call pathological remission. Besides raising awareness for myeloma, she's traded the life of a politician to a slightly less demanding VP role with a global consulting group.

Ferraro has been married for 45 years; the mother of three and the grandmother of seven. She considers herself a very lucky person.

FERRARO: I went from being a kid who lost her father and who lived in the South Bronx, almost to going in to live in the White House. That just tells you about what this country is all about. (END VIDEOTAPE)


BLITZER: Our picture of the day is Jack Tyler Sherling: Eight pounds, four ounces, 21 inches long. Check it out. A new addition to WOLF BLITZER REPORTS: The lovely new son of our executive producer, Eric Sherling.

Congratulations to a proud father, a proud mother, and a proud older brother. Good work all around.

Remember, we're on weekdays 5 p.m. Eastern. I'll be back tomorrow; back in Washington. Until then, thanks very much for joining us. I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now. Lou is standing by in New York -- Lou?