Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Rep. Adam Schiff Talks Israeli Airstrikes; U.S. Intelligence Chief Forced to Leave Germany for Spying; Republican Lawmakers Give Obama Failing Grade, Boehner to Sue Obama; Glenn Beck Ridiculed for Wanting to Help Immigrant Children; Rep. Ron Brown Talks Immigration Crisis; Islamic Militants Steal Nuke Material; Why '60s British Invasion Mattered.

Aired July 10, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And it is very much, Dana, a wait- and-see scenario now.

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely is.

Becky and Ben, stay safe. Thank you so much for those reports.

And we want to come back to the United States here to Capitol Hill where California Democrat, Adam Schiff, is joining us. He's a member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

And, Congressman, you just heard those reports. Let me just ask you flat out, do you support the Israeli airstrikes as a way to respond to what's been going on? Is this the right approach by Israel?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I don't think Israel really has any choice. As long as Hamas continues to fire rockets into Israel and put Israelis at risk, Israel has to respond in some manner. I don't think Israel wants to go to ground and have a ground invasion. They may be compelled to do it if the rocket attacks continue. But I don't think that Netanyahu could politically or otherwise sit on his hands while his citizens are being threatened in this way. So I'm not sure the Israelis have much choice. I hope that given the fact that Hamas has lost a lot of its patrons this will be short lived. But I think it will go on as long as those rockets keep coming.

BASH: What about sending in ground troops? 40,000 Israeli military reservists have been notified. The president, Shimon Peres, told our Becky Anderson that it's entirely possible. Is that something that you, the United States Congress, will continue to back Israel on?

SCHIFF: Well, if ultimately that's necessary, then yes. I think the United States will support Israel. We'll continue to have Israel's back in this. But again, it's obviously not something the United States is eager to see. It's not something Israel is eager to do. But I think that if they conclude there's no other way to stop these missile attacks and rocket attacks -- and Hamas now has rockets that can go as far as 70 miles and threaten large parts of Israel -- they'll do what they need to do to protect their country.

This is not something I think the United States can play much of a mediation role in. It's not a dispute really between Netanyahu and Mahmoud Abbas. This is between Israel and Hamas. So there's not much we can do. We can certainly urge restraint. But at the end of the day, Israel's going to do what it needs to do to protect its citizens. And if that means that they need to send in ground troops, I expect that's what they'll do.

BASH: That's interesting that you say that there's not much of a role for the U.S. here. That was going to be one of my questions. And I should say that, of course, you're right, that missiles coming from Gaza are reaching much further into Israel than ever before. But when it comes to a cease-fire or a potential cease-fire, Benjamin Netanyahu said today it's not even on the agenda. The last time we saw something escalate even close to this, in 2012, it was actually the Egyptian leader at the time, who is no longer there, Morsey, who helped negotiate because he had some leverage with Hamas. Do you see the current leader of Egypt or anybody in the region being able to broker a cease-fire if the U.S. can't?

SCHIFF: Well, Egypt is still the logical player. They have a relationship with Hamas, although that relationship has markedly deteriorated. And al Sisi has not much regard for Hamas. He may be in a lesser position than Morsey was to negotiate this, but he can probably still play a constructive role. And I think the fact that Egypt has been shutting down these tunnels and putting a lot of pressure on Hamas will limit the degree to which Hamas can continue this without a patron. But they are probably still the logical player. They may have a little less leverage with Hamas now but I think they could play a more constructive role than we're likely to play in this.

BASH: Very interesting.

Before I let you go, as we said, you are a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Today, something pretty dramatic happened in Germany where the U.S. intelligence chief in Berlin was told to leave the country for allegedly spying on behalf of the U.S. on German leaders. Do you know anything about this? Can you shed more light on this?

SCHIFF: Well, it's not something I can comment on. But I can say this. You know, we are seeing -- and this began back with the reports of spying on the cell phone of Angela Merkel -- the real costs that you can pay when you spy on allies. And I think the United States really has to weigh, without getting into the merits of these most recent allegations, whether the benefit we get from that information outweighs the damage that it can do to an important alliance.

BASH: What do you think?

SCHIFF: Well, I think it's unlikely -- if these allegations are correct, it's unlikely that we would be receiving anything so valuable as to jeopardize one of our strongest alliances and one that's of particular significance given what Russia is doing right now. So I have to think the administration is calling the intelligence community leadership in to find out exactly what's going on and if we have the kind of cost benefit analysis we have to have with such an important ally.

BASH: Very interesting.

Thank you for all of your insight on multiple issues across the globe.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Dana.

BASH: Mr. Schiff, thank you so much.

And President Obama is facing mounting criticism from Republican lawmakers who give him a failing grade on everything from border security to upholding the Constitution.

House Speaker John Boehner is even planning to sue the president, claiming his use of executive orders is unconstitutional. He talked about that lawsuit today. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Let me make this clear. This isn't about me suing the president. It's not about Republicans versus Democrats. This is about the legislative branch that's being disadvantaged by the executive branch. And it's not about executive actions. Every president does executive orders. Most of them, though, do them within the law. What we're talking about here are places where the president is basically rewriting law to make it fit his own needs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Joining me now from Philadelphia is Michael Smerconish, political commentator and anchor of CNN's own "Smerconish."

Michael, Boehner isn't revealing any details about this lawsuit. And I can tell you, from our reporting, it's because he doesn't know what the details are yet. They haven't figured out exactly what they're going to sue about, which executive orders. Even when they figure that out, they want to have the House authorize it, so it's not Boehner versus Obama. It's the House of Representatives versus the executive branch.

But let's just talk politics here. What would be the political impact on this in the short term, which is what matters, and that's November's midterm elections?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, SMERCONISH: Well, Dana, I don't think that it has a harmful impact with any constituency within the GOP because the more antagonism that can be shown toward this president, the more that it seems to drive their core constituency. The issues, the downside that I see, number one, what does it do with regard to the ongoing relationship between the speaker and the president. And maybe you would say, well, it can't get much worse than it is today. But to your question, how does it play with Independents? Not how does it play with the core constituency with the GOP, but how does it play with those individuals who are going to determine who controls the House and the Senate going forward? And therein, I think, lies the risk for Speaker Boehner because he'll fire up his base. He'll bring them to the polls, but I think he's going to turn off some folks who are frankly tired of this level of behavior between the House and the White House.

BASH: But doesn't that just speak to the reality of this election in November? It's a midterm election. And you talk to people on both sides who are working the campaigns, it is a base election. So do you think that it also might have the flip-side effect and that, yes, they're going to fire up the Republican base, but they might also fire up the Democratic base in favor of the president, in favor of their Democratic candidates, because they might be so angry about this?

SMERCONISH: Well, I don't know. You know, I completely buy into you saying that it's a midterm election, therefore, it's a turnout election. And an election like this is going to be won or lost based on passion. It's completely different from what will unfold in 2016. But if you're asking me, I think the passion more lies on the Republican side of the aisle. And so if I were whispering in the ear of the speaker, I would be saying, you probably are going to drive more of your constituency, and on a balancing scale, you'll antagonize fewer Democrats who will come out in response. So politically, I could see it being a net gain. I don't think it's a net gain for the country.

BASH: Very interesting.

Now let's turn to immigration. In the past, the immigration issue has cost the GOP votes. Right now, it is causing major division within the party. Conservative commentator, Glenn Beck, who I know you have a few opinions on, says he's been ridiculed by his fans because he's announced that he wants to bring food and toys to thousands of the unaccompanied children. He explained his position on the crisis. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: My heart is with anyone who is suffering. My brain is with the law. The law must be enforced. My heart is where I have mercy, and there is no justice without mercy. You have to have both of them. And right now, the conservatives only look like they just want judgment. And the liberals only look at it as mercy. You cannot have a rule of law if it is nothing but mercy. You cannot have justice without mercy. You need both. And so now I am not popular on the right or the left. So be it. I said last night -- and people, my fans, are mocking me on Facebook and that's OK. Believe me, I went into this one wide open. I know exactly -- I know exactly where I'm going. I know exactly who I am. And I know exactly what the consequences of that could be. And that's fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Wow! What's your reaction to that?

SMERCONISH: It's hard for me to take it seriously. I think we've reached a point where there needs to be some accountability for those who have created a climate in which substance doesn't matter. And frankly, he belongs in that category.

The law that applies in this case is the law of unintended consequences. And the law of unintended consequences seemed to flow from that Wilberforce law that was passed in 2008. And what frustrates me is that I don't hear much conversation and substantive dialogue about that law, and are we really about to change it, because it seems like the federal government is hamstrung. And you know, I look at the way that this is being presented on both the left and the right, and I think it bears very little resemblance to reality. And both sides are using it for their political advantage, and caught in the crosshairs are 50,000 kids.

BASH: Yep. And growing.

Michael, thank you so much.

You're right about that 2008 law, but they are talking about it on Capitol Hill. Let's see if they can figure out what to do about it, if anything. I know you're going to dig deeper on the crisis this weekend on "Smerconish." Talk to one of the Congressmen who wrote the law. It's the center of this controversy.

Catch it all Saturday at 9:00 a.m. eastern.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HENRY CUELLAR, (D), TEXAS: I'm interested in him looking at the kids, the kids that I have talked to, little innocent little boys and girls that have come across, have traveled over 1,000 miles. That one-third of the girls have been raped on the way up here. The last kid was an 11-year-old little boy from Guatemala that died of dehydration. That is a face that I want him to see. Don't take any cameras, Mr. President, but go down there and see what we're facing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: That's Texas Congressman Henry Cuellar, a Democrat who's been unrelenting in his criticism of the administration when it comes to border issues.

Now, another House Democrat from the border is my next guest, Arizona's Ron Barber.

And, Congressman, thank you so much for joining me.

I want to first play for you what house Speaker John Boehner said just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOEHNER: Listen, this is a problem of the president's own making. He's been president for five and a half years! When's he going to take responsibility for something?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now, you're the president's fellow Democrat. But as we said, you are a border district congressman. Do you think the president has done enough to protect the border?

REP. RON BARBER, (D), ARIZONA: No, I don't. And neither do I think that the Congress has done enough. This problem has been going on for a long time. And now it's been exaggerated by this humanitarian crisis that we have with thousands of children coming into Texas and into my state in Arizona.

BASH: What should he have been doing more of? And have you been given, where your district is -- on the phone with the White House writing letters to the White House trying to get the president to do more?

BARBER: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: Before even this crisis happened?

BARBER: Well, yes. I've been pressing for changes in our border security strategy and policy, and for us to fix the broken immigration system. As a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security, I'm very pleased that we have a very strong bipartisan effort there. But it needs to come to the floor. We need a bill that will help with increased border security, and we need to fix the broken immigration system. Both of those actions have not been done, and it's a failure of both the presidency and Washington to not deal with a problem that's been going on way too long.

BASH: Congressman, your district in Arizona represents 83 miles of the border. I know you're one of nine border district House members. What are you seeing in your district on the border?

BARBER: Well, first of all, the people that I represent who live and work along the border, the ranchers, the businesspeople, folks who have retired and are living down there every single day, they feel unsafe in their homes because the drug cartels are coming through their land, bringing drugs, heavily armed and putting our constituents in danger. We need to stop that.

And one of the things we need to do is to have more troops, more Border Patrol agents on the border, more technology on the border. I've been pressing for that since I got here. And hopefully, now -- unfortunately now, because of this crisis, we're finally getting the attention of Washington and the White House.

BASH: Now, one of the key questions on Capitol Hill right now is whether there needs to be a policy change, specifically about a 2008 law that allows children from Central America to stay in the country, get a hearing before they go back. That's maybe gumming things up, for lack of a better way to say it. Do you think that that law should be repealed? BARBER: I don't believe it should be repealed, but it needs to be

modified. Let's remember, the bill was passed in 2008 for a very good reason. It was to address the issue of human and sex trafficking of children. We have to stop that. We have to do everything we can to prevent it. So we need to modify the law so that these children who are coming here from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador are able to be returned home expeditiously. Their parents need to have them back with them because these children are facing danger when they come across Mexico on the top of freight trains. They're in a situation here in Arizona that's creating immense pressures on my community and the people that I serve. We need to be able to get them back home. And that law is unfortunately standing in the way.

BASH: Congressman, one more question. Just raw politics here. You are somebody who is an endangered Democrat. You have a very tough re- election ahead of you in November. And in all candor, is the president making it harder for you to get re-elected?

BARBER: I don't really think about that in that way. I think that what's important to the people I represent is that they know that I'm listening to them, that I'm their voice in Congress. I'm home every weekend. I'm down on the border a lot. I've been on the border for the last two years as a member of Congress and, before that, as a district director. I know this border community and I know what they need and I'm fighting here in Washington to get it done.

BASH: Congressman Ron Barber, appreciate it. Thank you for your time.

BARBER: Thank you very much.

BASH: Now let's turn to Iraq. Islamic militants have gotten their hands on some nuclear material. Sound scary? You bet. Details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: An unnerving development in Iraq. Officials there say militants have stolen nuclear materials from the university in Mosul.

Arwa Damon joins us live from Baghdad.

Arwa, what do you know about the amount and grade of the stolen uranium?

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's about 40 kilograms, say around 80-plus pounds of this material. It is uranium. However, the U.S. and the IAEA are saying this is not enriched uranium. They do not believe it would pose a potential threat.

That being said, it is understandably quite a disturbing development with the Iraqi government reaching out to the United Nations for assistance in this matter. The Iraqi government has really been trying to drum up international support in its ongoing battle for is. It's now been a month, Dana, since it first took over Mosul, Iraq's second-largest city. The security force is struggling along these various front lines, barely keeping ISIS away from the capital.

CNN.com's Chelsea Carter took a trip to a hospital in Baghdad, where she managed to speak to some of the wounded Iraqi soldiers coming back from the front lines, telling harrowing tales of what they witnessed, painting a different picture of the battlefield from what is being told by the Iraqi government. A lot of stories about how they did not have enough weapons, enough ammunition, logistics supply lines completely falling apart. So the Iraqi government at this stage really trying to reach out to various international players, gain that support. We also know they're relying very heavily on Shia militias to keep ISIS fighters away from the capital -- Dana?

BASH: Arwa Damon, reporting from Iraq, thank you so much.

And still to come, the cultural phenomenon that helped define a generation. Bill Flanagan, of VH1, joins us to look back at the British Invasion and how it changed everything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BASH: The '60s can be defined by many historic moments but the Beatles were in a class all by themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Their appearance on Ed Sullivan in 1964 was literally the beginning of the British Invasion. You can relive that experience tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern when our documentary series "The Sixties" airs.

Now, Bill Flanagan, author of "Written in My Soul: Conversations with Rock's Great Songwriters," joins us.

Bill, a very simple question for you. Why did the British Invasion matter so much to America?

BILL FLANAGAN, VH1 & AUTHOR: Well, you know, everybody romanticizes the music that was big when they were kids, whether Frank Sinatra or Kanye West. But the thing about the mid '60s music that has us talking about it 50 years later is it's a moment when innovation was valued so much. The Beatles went from "I Want to Hold Your Hand" to "Strawberry Fields Forever" in three years. That's an amazingly rapid growth. And kind of like the Impressionists or, you know, Hemingway and Fitzgerald and Joyce, they were all spurring each other on. So the Beatles made a leap, and the Stones made a leap, and Stevie Wonder and Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix, everybody's trying to top each other. It was that rare, rare moment where the most innovative stuff was also the most popular stuff. The best music was also the best-selling music. And we're still living off the fumes of that.

BASH: We are. Look, I wasn't born in the '60s. But I grew up --

(CROSSTALK)

FLANAGAN: But I bet you feel like you were there.

BASH: I feel like I was there. Really, I grew up to my mother singing me "I Want to Hold Your Hand." One of the first things I played for my newborn was "I Want to Hold Your Hand" and the entire Beatles collection. That's part of it. It has staying power.

FLANAGAN: It has staying power. Why do we care about Mark Twain? Why do we still care about John Wayne? Some stuff lasts. Some doesn't. I mean, no offense meant. Talking about the Dave Clark 5 or Jerry and the Pacemakers, that was music of its moment. But some of this stuff transcends its moment.

BASH: That's about the music. What about those screaming girls and the cultural and social change that the British Invasion brought on?

FLANAGAN: Well, it's interesting, because you get the peak of the teenager, you know. Here's this baby boom bunch of kids, suddenly people realize they can sell stuff to kids. And then that very quickly becomes the counter culture. You know, as those kids go from being screaming 14-year-olds to being 18-year-olds, screaming about the draft in the Vietnam War, just as the music accelerated, so did the cultural radio, the cultural message that went in it. It starts out as just stuff for teeny boppers, and within a very short period of time, it becomes social commentary.

BASH: Absolutely fascinating. I want to sit down with you when we have more time and ask about all your interviews with some of my heroes.

(CROSSTALK)

FLANAGAN: Oh, well, my wife and kids have no interest in hearing about that, so we'll --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: I do, I do.

FLANAGAN: OK.

BASH: We'll do that another time. Maybe over a beer.

But be sure to tune in tonight for "The Sixties, The British Invasion." It airs at 9:00 eastern.

And Wolf Blitzer will be back this afternoon at 5:00 eastern on "The Situation Room," anchoring from Israel.

That's it for me.

NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Dana Bash, thank you so much.

Happy Thursday to all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for watching CNN.