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Wolf

List of Americans Fighting for Islamic Militants Grows; Dozens of Rebel Groups Fight Together Against Assad, ISIS in Syria; Kirsten Gillibrand Talks about Inappropriate Comments on Weight from Male Colleagues; West Africa Ebola Outbreak Worst Ever Seen.

Aired August 28, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting today from New York.

The list of Americans fighting and dying along Islamist militants in the Middle East is growing. One of those fighters, Douglas McCain, the 33-year-old from Minnesota who was killed last weekend fighting for ISIS inside Syria. We're learning more now about him, and getting new word about some new propaganda videos being used to recruit young people in the United States.

Ted Rowlands is joining us from Minneapolis.

So what can you tell us about Minnesota and its connection to Islamist terrorists recruiting, Ted?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, this is really, believe it or not, ground zero for Islamic extremist recruiting. And it started back with al Shabaab. They came to Minnesota and recruited young Somalis. There's a very large Somali population here in the Twin Cities. And for years, they've been recruiting fighters to come over and fight in Somalia. Now we're seeing ISIS taking a page out of the exact same playbook, and they have been successful in recruiting upwards of a dozen young men from this area to go fight in Syria. And you mentioned the video. It is incredible, but they actually have a video out that is tailored specifically to the Twin Cities, saying come out and be a Minnesota martyr and join us.

Take a listen to a little clip from that propaganda video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ISIS TERRORIST: If you guys only knew how much fun we have over here. This is the real Disneyland. You need to come here and join us.

(SHOUTING)

UNIDENTIFIED ISIS TERRORIST: Take pleasure in this fun. We walk amongst the lions.

(END VIDEO CLIP) ROWLANDS: And, Wolf, of course, the big fear is that this will continue. And then you've got these extremist young men with American passports, and there's real concern here with the FBI, not only in the Minneapolis area but across the country, that this will continue and potentially it could be very dangerous even here on U.S. soil if they get enough of these young men.

BLITZER: Douglas McCain, that 33-year-old guy who was fighting alongside ISIS, who was killed over the weekend, he actually had a high school friend who was also recruited, also died on the battlefield, is that right?

ROWLANDS: Yeah. A young man by the name of Troy Castegar, who was recruited in 2009 -- actually, he died in 2009. He was one of the ones that went to Somalia and fought for al Shabaab. And it's unclear -- we knew that they were friends in high school. They played basketball together. It's unclear if they stayed in contact over the years, but that high school, which is in the suburb called New Hope here in the Minneapolis area, they're just absolutely floored by the fact that two of their students in, of all places, suburban Minneapolis, have died fighting for extremist groups.

BLITZER: But neither one, correct me if I'm wrong, really Somali- Americans, right?

ROWLANDS: Correct. Correct, they're not, but they were fighting -- the first was fighting in Somalia, and the second one was fighting in Syria -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I guess the question is, are they trying to recruit just Americans like Douglas McCain? For whatever reason, he converted from Christianity to Islam. Or are they specifically trying to recruit Somali-Americans, you know, young men whose parents came from Somalia, settled in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area in Minnesota? Who are they primarily going after?

ROWLANDS: Well, the short answer is both, Wolf. But the primary focus is those Somali young men that have come here or were born here. Their parents have come here over the years. They're the target. However, in the two cases you just pointed out, they're willing to take anybody. And that is a huge concern.

BLITZER: Ted Rowlands in the Twin Cities for us. He's going to be working the story, getting more for us later today. Thanks very much.

Still ahead, dozens of rebel groups in Syria are trying to topple the Bashar al Assad regime and take on ISIS. We're going to speak to an expert, sort out the complicated battle scenarios that are unfolding right now.

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BLITZER: The terror group ISIS says it's executed at least 250 Syrian soldiers after capturing them in northeast Syria. This video posted online shows the men marching to their deaths. But ISIS is not the only terror group fighting Bashar al Assad's

regime in Syria. The al Nusra front also trying to topple the government. It's backed by al Qaeda. Then, of course, you have the moderate factions such as the Free Syrian Army. They're apparently all joining forces to take on is. All of this a very, very complicated picture.

Let's bring in William McCants, of the Brookings Institution, a former senior adviser for countering violent extremism over at the State Department.

It's very, very complicated, but the relationship, the battle that -- is al Nusra, the terrorists from al Nusra, and the State Department regards them as a terrorist organization, actually fighting ISIS, which is also seen as a terrorist organization?

WILLIAM MCCANTS, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: That's right. They are fighting one another. That wasn't always the case. Nusra was once a part of ISIS, before ISIS was kicked out by al Qaeda central in Pakistan. And now the two organizations are at odds with one another. There's some areas, some towns where they still collaborate, but for the most part, they're fighting against each other. But they're also -- ISIS is also fighting other parts of the Sunni rebel opposition to the Assad regime.

BLITZER: I spoke to a spokesman yesterday who represents the Free Syrian Army, the so-called moderate Syrian opposition, who acknowledged that there were some brigades from their Free Syrian Army in the south that cooperated with al Nusra in destroying that Syrian military checkpoint on the Golan Heights, and they now have control. How much cooperation is there between the so-called moderate Syrian opposition, the Free Syrian Army, and a terrorist group like al Nusra?

MCCANTS: There's quite a bit of cooperation between the Free Syrian Army and al Qaeda's branch in Syria called Nusra. They cooperate in the south. They've also cooperated extensively in the north. And this cooperation has been going on since Nusra declared its presence back in 2012. This isn't anything new in the Syrian mix. What is new is the fight against ISIS, which has been going very badly as of late. ISIS has made a lot of advances, pushing to the West in Syria, and the rebels are being crushed between the Assad regime and the Islamic State.

BLITZER: So why would the U.S. even consider arming, training, providing weapons to the Free Syrian Army if there is this extensive cooperation with a terror group like al Nusra?

MCCANTS: That's a very real concern, and one of the reasons why the Obama administration hasn't wanted to arm the Free Syrian Army with serious weapons. But one could also make the opposite argument that because the United States hasn't been willing to provide those weapons to the Sunni rebels in Syria, like the Free Syrian Army, that they have been forced to collaborate with groups like Nusra. You're not going to get any leverage over the Free Syrian Army if you aren't willing to provide them with weapons and ammunition.

BLITZER: Is the Bashar regime really in any serious danger of being removed from power in Damascus?

MCCANTS: Not yet. The Sunni rebels fighting against him are in disarray. They were stronger last year than they are this year. ISIS continues to advance. And there's a tactical alignment between the Islamic State and the Assad regime. They may even be cooperating at some level. But certainly, at a strategic level, their interests overlie, and that is defeating the Sunni rebels.

BLITZER: How does ISIS differ from al Qaeda?

MCCANTS: One of the main ways that they differ from al Qaeda is ISIS wants to control territory. And that's why it declared itself an Islamic State. Al Qaeda has always considered itself a vanguard organization. And a lot of the young men fighting in the global jihad today feel like it's time to re-establish the caliphate. And so they're much more attracted to ISIS than they are to al Qaeda. And that's one reason why ISIS is doing so well at recruiting young men, like McCain that you had in your previous section, because they are putting themselves out there as the new Islamic caliphate. And they've got -- they're holding the territory that can prove it. And until that territory shrinks, it gives ISIS a great amount of legitimacy.

BLITZER: One final question, Will, before I let you go. I read in "The New York Times" today a fascinating piece suggesting that ISIS militarily in Iraq has been so successful, in part, because so many of Saddam Hussein's top military officers, colonels and generals and others, have been recruited. They know the territory. They know what to do. And they're part of the ISIS military operation. I assume you read that piece as well.

MCCANTS: I did read that piece. It was a fascinating piece of reporting. And the other bit of information that came out is almost all of the senior leaders in ISIS, these men, many of whom were attached to the Saddam regime, were in U.S. custody along with the current so-called caliph that is running the Islamic State.

BLITZER: Many of these former Saddam Hussein generals, they said they wanted to work with the current Iraqi army, but they were rejected because of their past. So they went ahead and decided to work with ISIS now, and they're scoring major, major military victories, as we all know.

Will McCants, of the Brookings Institution, thanks very much for helping us.

MCCANTS: A pleasure.

BLITZER: Just ahead, a female Senator writes about inappropriate comments made by some of her male Senate colleagues. Our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; and our chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, they're standing by. We'll discuss.

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BLITZER: You've heard of "Sex & the City." You might call this "Sexism in the Senate." In her new book, Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, of New York, writes about some of the comments from male colleagues made about her weight. She tells "People" magazine she was at the congressional gym when one older male colleague told her, and I'm quoting now, "Good thing you're working out because you wouldn't want to get porky." After she lost 50 pounds of baby weight from her second child, she says another Senator squeezed her stomach and said, "Don't lose too much weight now. I like my girls chubby."

Let's bring back our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger; and our chief Congressional correspondent, Dana Bash.

So, Dana, when you hear a United States Senator writing about this, what's your reaction? What's your initial take?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You go, girl.

(LAUGHTER)

I mean, that honestly was. Because Kirsten Gillibrand represents a new generation of female leaders in both parties. She has counterparts in the Republican side, too, who are doing things differently. And one of the things that she is doing very clearly, very openly with this book is -- and writing these things in these upcoming book -- is to say, you know, as many gains as Democrats -- excuse me, as women have made, it's still, in some way, an old boys club. She does make clear that the people who make comments like this, it's a generational divide. They tend to be older men. But I'm not surprised by it. In fact, I've talked to her about it and gotten even more stories in private. And you know, it's kind of nice that she's talking about it in public.

BLITZER: Is it just a generational thing, if these older Senators, these men, were in their 60s to 80s, Gloria?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, it could be. And maybe the older men would be more likely to say it to her face, whereas younger men might just say it behind her back, honestly.

BLITZER: Yeah.

BORGER: And I think what's sort of stunning about this is that these are politicians who are trying to appeal to women voters, right? You know, women voters are the big prize these days in presidential elections, in congressional races. And here they are saying this kind of garbage to a star of the Democratic Party. So good for her for talking about it. I kind of want names, but she didn't supply them. But maybe we'll figure that out at some point.

BLITZER: How does this square, Dana -- you cover the Senate -- with the decorum there up on Capitol Hill?

BASH: It's not surprising. It really isn't. I mean, look, we have to say that the vast majority of people in Congress are gentlemen and gentle ladies, and that this does tend to happen with -- you know, I think I've got to be careful here -- but it's generational and regional, people who just have a different way of interacting with women than other people from across the country or from a younger generation are used to. But look, I mean, I've experienced similar -- not comments like that, but similar comments from maybe older members of Congress that I would not -- I guarantee you they wouldn't say the kinds of things they say sometimes to a man, and you've just got to deal with it. I have to tell you, it also shows that Congress may be a workplace like any other workplace.

BORGER: Right.

BASH: It is still out there. It is still out there. Whether you have a Senator in front of your name or whether you are answering phones, it is still happening.

BLITZER: Dana, Gloria, one quick question. Dana will know this off the top of her head. Of the 100 U.S. Senators, how many are women?

BASH: 20, 20 percent.

BLITZER: Which is a record?

BASH: It is a record. The population of the United States is more than 50 percent female. It is still well below what's representative percentage, what it should be.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I asked the question, Gloria, because I certainly remember when the Senate was 100 percent male.

BORGER: Yeah. Yeah.

BLITZER: A few women, one, or two, or three. Now, there are 20. It is not necessarily the boys club as it used to be.

BORGER: Yeah. A woman could barely find a place to go to the bathroom off the floor in the capital. Now, it has changed and it is shifting. I bet if you asked other female members of Congress, particularly in the Senate, you know, they would have similar stories, as Dana points out, just like women everywhere have similar stories. So, you know, the fact that she wrote about this is a very good thing. She is making it public that it goes on in the United States Senate and in the House as well as everywhere else in this country. It is an issue that needs to be addressed. It is not startling at all to either one of us.

BLITZER: Is there any difference between the Senate, Dana, and the House of representatives when it comes to this kind of issue.

BASH: There are more women in the House of Representatives, obviously. It is 435 people. There are, I believe, well over 100 women, mostly Democrats. But there are about -- I should say, fewer than 100. There are a lot more. It has changed the dynamic there. But she -- Gillibrand is giving these examples that you gave. Some of it happened when she was in the House. So it does happen in both chambers. BORGER: You know, Hillary Clinton, by the way, another well-known

female politician, has spoken about this. She has written about it in her book. She hasn't gotten that specific. But she has talked about the way she was treated differently when she was a female candidate running for presidency the first time around. It's clearly going to be something that's going to be talked about when she runs. And I believe it's when she runs this time around. I think what Gillibrand did was set the table for that discussion.

BASH: To put a point on this, in 1986, when Barbara Mikulski, the longest-serving female Senator ever, came to the Senate, she wasn't allowed to wear pants on the Senate floor. So we have come far as a gender, but it just shows it is still not far enough perhaps.

BLITZER: Dana and Gloria, guys, good discussion. Thanks very much.

When we come back, two major developments today on the Ebola threat. Also, we are going to take you to ground zero in the battle against the worst Ebola outbreak the world has ever seen.

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BLITZER: A human trial of an experimental Ebola vaccine will be tried next week at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. Doctors will be looking to see if healthy volunteers suffer any bad effects from the vaccine and if their bodies produce a strong immune response.

Ebola has killed more than 1500 people in West Africa. The West Point slum in Monrovia is considered ground zero.

Nima Elbagir was allowed inside the quarantine zone. And as she shows us, there is no way out for residents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the drive into West Point, you are met with barbed wire and barricaded shops. At the quarantine line, angry residents congregating to stare- down police.

(SHOUTING)

ELBAGIR: Crossing the line, you are immediately swarmed, people desperate to be heard.

(SHOUTING)

BLITZER: Desperate to believe this isn't happening.

At a rough estimate, there are over 70,000 people living in Monrovia's slums. No sanitation, no running water. And since the government designated it an Ebola quarantine zone last week, no way out. This was after they were claiming the virus was a government hoax.

(on camera): Were you here when the clinic was started? (voice-over): A nurse at the center told us she arrived to her shift

to find the center destroyed and not a patient to be found.

You can see this center is not extraordinarily well equipped. They're having to rewash their protective gear. A squirt of diluted bleach and a door ransacked and left for broken during the riots. This is it. The only place people have.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Even here, the most that they can hope to get is to be made comfortable, while they wait to overcome the virus or not.

Charming is a hairdresser. Like many here in West Point, she has to travel out of the township to make a living. The only breadwinner for her two children.

CHARMING FALLAH, RESIDENT (through translation): Right now, my mother doesn't have anything. I was the one that provided for her. As time goes by, now, she is complaining the rice is finished.

ELBAGIR (on camera): Are you more scared of Ebola or the hunger?

FALLAH (through translation): Both. That's what's worrying us, the hunger, the Ebola, everything. I'm scared of everything.

ELBAGIR (voice-over): Charming leaves us. She is going to see if her mother is right, if the food really has run out.

As we walk back out on to the street, the crowd has grown larger. At the quarantine line, the standoff continues, desperate to at least be seen and heard, if not released.

Nima Elbagir, CNN, Monrovia, Liberia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Thanks to Nima Elbagir for that report.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. Eastern in "THE SITUATION ROOM." Another two-hour special edition.

In the meantime, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.