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NATO Summit Convenes at Critical Time; Pentagon States ISIS Could Penetrate Green Zone; Iraq's President Says We Need Help to Fight ISIS; Tackling the ISIS Threat

Aired September 04, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, President Obama and other world leaders, they are gathering at the NATO summit with a full plate of issues. The top the agenda, Russian aggression and stopping ISIS's reign of terror.

Also right now, the president of Iraq asks for help from countries within NATO. In an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour, he says Iraq is now in a very vulnerable situation. You're going to hear from the new Iraqi president.

Also right now, the Ferguson, Missouri Police Department already taking heat for its handling of the Michael Brown shooting, now about to face a lot more scrutiny. The attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, set to make a big announcement.

Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.

We begin with a critical summit at a critical time, that's how the NATO secretary general describes the meeting of the alliance underway right now in Wales. Leaders are dealing with a threat from the ISIS terrorists, the crisis in Ukraine, NATO's role in Afghanistan after the combat mission there ends. Ukraine and ISIS, though, will dominate the two-day summit.

For more now on the NATO meeting and what's at stake, let's bring in our Chief White House Correspondent Jim Acosta. He's traveling with the president. Also, our Senior International Correspondent, Nic Robertson. He's in Wales as well.

Jim, I'll start with you. President Obama clearly under tremendous political pressure to respond to the ISIS threat. What kind of help does he hope to get from the NATO allies?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, Wolf, he wants to put together a coalition and it -- the president has made that clear. His administration officials have made that clear that to expand this mission into Syria with military airstrikes on ISIS targets. They want to have a coalition that's ready to go to deliver that sort of military action.

And we can tell you, in just the last couple of minutes in a conference call with reporters that is happening right now, as a matter of fact, the deputy national security adviser to the president, Ben Rhodes, just told reporters that the president and Prime Minister David Cameron did talk about the ISIS threat to and from a couple of events this morning. They had a bilateral discussion in which they talked about the threats posed by ISIS.

And, Wolf, as you can see, these two leaders are very much becoming a duo in terms of providing leadership when it comes to dealing with the ISIS threat. The president and Prime Minister Cameron put out that op-ed in the British newspaper this morning, saying that the United States and Britain will not be cowed by terrorists. But there are -- there are other meetings going on. Interesting to note that the president did sit down for a meeting with King Abdullah of Jordan. The president has said that he wants to line up regional partners in the Middle East to take on the ISIS threat. So, it does -- so, it doesn't just look like the west coming into the Middle East to go after those terrorists. And so, I think that's also interesting. We don't have a full readout of that meeting. We expect that to happen later on.

Then, of course, you mentioned the crisis in Ukraine, the situation with Russia. There was a very interesting meeting, even though Ukraine is not a part of NATO, the leaders of the United States, Great Britain, France, Italy, Germany and President Petro Poroshenko all sat down at a table behind closed doors. The cameras went in for a few brief moments, didn't pick up much, but they were, of course, all stating their united support for Ukraine's sovereignty and standing against that aggression that has been taking place in Eastern Ukraine.

And, you know, one thing that we are wondering, you know, coming out of this meeting, Wolf, is whether or not President Obama will lead with some sort of international cooperative agreement stating that there might be some sort of coalition that will go after ISIS in Syria.

Interesting to note, finally, Wolf, that Anders Fog Rasmussen, Secretary General of NATO, said earlier today, he thinks it is the international community's responsibility to go after ISIS. So, another good development for the president in that regard as well.

BLITZER: All right. Stand by, Jim, because I want to bring Nic Robertson into this conversation. As Jim pointed out, there is this op-ed that the prime minister of Britain, the president of the United States, they had a joint byline. Let me put it up on the screen, a little bit of what they wrote. We will not waver in our determination to confront ISIL. If terrorists think we will weaken in the face of their threats, they could not be more wrong. Countries like Britain and America will not be cowed by barbaric killers. Nic, you had an interview -- a one-on-one interview with the prime minister, David Cameron. What did he say to you, specifically, about this is threat?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Wolf, he had a lot to say. And one of the things I put to him, and I said, look, this is -- ISIS's not part on the main part of the agenda of this summit. And he said, look, this is something that's going to get talked about and talked about in the margins. We just heard there from Jim getting a briefing, conversations between President Obama, David Cameron in the margins about ISIS. We can expect more of that. These leaders will have a banquet in Cardiff Castle tonight. They will discuss it more around the table there.

I asked Prime Minister Cameron -- in the light of what President Obama had said in Estonia yesterday, I said, look, President Obama has said that ISIS should be destroyed. But he also said that they should be reduced to a manageable problem, shrunk to a manageable problem. I asked the British prime minister, what should it be? Should it be destroyed or shrunk? This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, PRIME MINISTER, BRITAIN: Destroyed, squeezed out of existence is the way that I would put it. But we should be clear what we're facing here, is this Islamist extremist narrative, a poisonous narrative? It isn't just in Iraq and Syria. We've also seen it in Somalia, in Mali, of course in Afghanistan when hosted by the Taliban. So, this is a generational struggle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: Now, prime minister Cameron also there talked about King Abdullah of Jordan, how important it is to support him militarily and other ways. He has ISIS on his doorsteps in Iraq and Syria, both bordering Jordan. He also said when I asked him, is Britain prepared to -- prepared to conduct air strikes to target ISIS in Iraq and Syria? And he didn't commit to that. He said it wasn't ruled out, but his language led me to believe this may be a little further down the road for the British prime minister than, perhaps, it is for President Obama right now -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Nic Robertson on the scene for us. Thank you. Jim Acosta, thanks to you as well.

We're also learning more now about the White House's decision to send additional U.S. troops to Baghdad. Let's bring in our Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr. We're talking about another 350 U.S. troops being sent to Baghdad, bringing the total now to more than 1,000, I think, U.S. forces, active-duty military personnel now deployed to various parts of Iraq. So, what are you learning about this new commitment?

BARBARA WOLF, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, what U.S. officials are telling us is when they looked at the intelligence assessment, it showed them that ISIS, indeed, had the capability basically to penetrate the international zone in Baghdad. That's that high-secure area where the U.S. embassy and other installations are located, known for many years as the so-called green zone. That ISIS had the capability to get inside that secure area and potentially launch attacks against the embassy. They weren't looking at necessarily the scenario of ISIS storming the gates, trying to take the whole embassy.

But ISIS has the capability to potentially launch suicide attacks, bomb attacks, car bombs, bombers with suicide vests, all of that. So, the decision was made at the behest of the State Department that they needed additional security. And now, about 350 troops, about a third of them already there now, going to Baghdad. They will be split between the embassy, the U.S. operation at Baghdad airport, and maybe even going up north to Erbil, if it's required.

So, it's just really beginning to underscore how much the U.S. is being -- is prepared to defend U.S. resources in Baghdad, U.S. personnel in Baghdad. This is -- this another indicator, I would say. This is turning now to be a very long-term situation -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, it's going to go on and on and on. What about the specific threats? Are there specific threats against the U.S. embassy in Baghdad which, as you know, is a huge, huge embassy? I think it's the largest one in the world. Specific threats to U.S. personnel, diplomats, military personnel in the Iraqi capital?

STARR: You know, Wolf, at this time, the sources we're talking to in the U.S. government say there isn't a specific direct threat against the embassy complex. But we are in that post-Benghazi era when the U.S. has heightened concern for all embassy installations around the world. And they're -- you know, really, in this era, it's all about taking those protective measures in advance. You know you're in a high-threat situation in Baghdad. There's no question about that. So, put the extra people in, be prepared and be able to repel anything that may come your way. It's one of the biggest issues right now for both the U.S. military and the State Department around the world. Protecting U.S. installations in these very high-threat areas that seem to be multiplying every week -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes, in recent days, U.S. officials have said to me, given the fact that there was an attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound, the consulate in Benghazi on the anniversary of 911, and that anniversary is coming up next Thursday, one week from today. They obviously, in an abundance of caution, they're taking prudent steps to make sure that U.S. diplomats around the world are going to be protected as best as they possibly can, especially in Baghdad. Barbara, thanks very much.

When we come back, Iraq's president opening up about the new U.S. troop deployment to Baghdad and reveals what he needs from the United States and how to destroy ISIS.

Christiane Amanpour's interview with the new Iraqi president. That's coming up next.

Plus, the British government applies new anti-terror tactics targeting hundreds of its own citizens who they suspect may be Jihadists. We're going to discuss that threat with the former counter-terror chief of Britain's MI-6.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Iraq is now looking to NATO countries to help counter the threat from ISIS. Today, President Fuad Masum, he is the new president of Iraq, talked about that and other daunting challenges facing Iraq during a one-on-one interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour. Christiane is joining us from London right now. Christiane, what did the new president of Iraq tell you about what he wants the United States, other NATO allies to do about ISIS? CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, he said he was really pleased by what President Obama said, that now they are determined to confront and to stop ISIS, determined to degrade and destroy, in President Obama's words, and to stop the threat not just to Iraq but elsewhere as well, including the United States. Those were the president's words. So, he said he was really pleased about that. And then, he told me -- and we can play a little bit of the interview. He told me that they really did need help and have a broad sort of coalition kind of strategy to confront this menace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT FUAD MASUM, IRAQ (translator): If there is cooperation and coordination between Iraq and the United States and the neighboring countries, I believe that the position can be quickly wiped out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: The head of NATO, Mr. Rasmussen, says that, Iraq, your government has not yet requested, specifically, help from NATO. Are you going to ask for that help? What kind of help do you want?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MASUM (translator): From here and through this interview with you, I request support to Iraq, support for Iraq to fight those terrorists, because Iraq now is in a fragile situation, very vulnerable situation. And when that organization defeats Iraq, it can proceed to other countries. But thorough our relationship with the United States of America and the coordination with the United States, as well as European allies, we will discuss that. But regarding NATO, it is true that we haven't yet asked formally for military help. But we ask in the - we ask states that are members of NATO for help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: So you can see he's clearly asking in a very elaborate manner for help. Also when I specifically asked what, he said we need retraining of our army, which to the ears and eyes of many Americans might seem strange because, as you know, over the last 12 years, the U.S. has spent billions of dollars trying to stand up that army. But nonetheless, he says, we need it completely reformulated. And interestingly, Wolf, he confirmed to me that it was Iranian militias, along with Iraqi forces, supported by U.S. air power, that stopped and relieved the siege of that town of Amelie (ph) in Iraq a few days ago.

BLITZER: We learned that the Pentagon agreed, Christiane, to send 350 additional U.S. military troops to Baghdad to protect the U.S. embassy there after intelligence assessments shows that ISIS, at least potentially, has the capability to launch an attack against the U.S. embassy compound in the so-called secure green zone. Did the president of Iraq, President Masum, did he say that he wants more U.S. troops on the ground, boots on the ground if you will, in Iraq?

AMANPOUR: He didn't, actually. Obviously, those forces have gone for the security that you mentioned. But I specifically asked him about, look, you know, a lot of people attribute the troubles in Iraq to the 2003 war. And now a new American president, another American president, who wanted a stop all that, is considering a new coalition for Iraq to get rid of ISIS. Do you want boots on the ground? And he said, no, we want all sorts of other help but not boots on the ground.

And critically he said that he believes that a new government will be announced and will be formed within the next few days, he told me, one or two days. And that, as you know, is the very critical political component to have an inclusive government to pull in those disaffected Sunnis to try to head off this fuel that that dysfunction is giving to ISIS.

BLITZER: Christiane Amanpour reporting for us from London. Christiane, thanks very much.

Just ahead, the vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, vowed the United States will follow ISIS, quote, "to the gates of hell." But does the Obama administration have a strategy to do that? And has Vladimir Putin made NATO relevant again? We're going to talk ISIS, Ukraine, politics, a lot more. David Gergen's standing by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Obama and other NATO leaders convened a two-day summit today facing what seems like a world in turmoil. The threat from the terrorist group ISIS certainly a major focus of the NATO Summit that's now underway in Wales. And President Obama is under intense pressure here at home to lay out a clear, decisive strategy for confronting ISIS. Our senior political analyst, David Gergen, is joining us now to talk a little bit about that.

David, as our viewers know, you've advised four U.S. presidents. We need to hear - this is the criticism of the president -- a clear message on what he plans on doing to deal with ISIS. How important is it to hear that from the president?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's critical. You know, one of the lessons we learned from Vietnam way back when is at first you commit the country, and then you commit the troops. And if you do it the other way around, you find the public opinion can slip away from you very, very quickly if something goes wrong. So if we really are going to embark upon a mission as the president himself said yesterday and then his defense secretary reiterated here on CNN, if the mission is to degrade and destroy the capability of ISIS, that's a big deal. It's going to involve troops, a lot of air strikes, probably in Syria, rounding up a lot of allies. He's going to need the country with him, Wolf, on this.

So I'm -- my working assumption is this, for the next 24 hours, he's going to be with our NATO friends. At the end of that, there will be a press conference tomorrow and we'll hear what has emerged from this NATO conference. He will then come back to the United States, begin consulting with Congress more, you know, more rapidly. And then I think sometime next week he is likely to go to the country and say, ladies and gentlemen, here's what we must do. It's not what I really wanted to do as president, but what we must do given the new realities.

BLITZER: How does the anniversary of 9/11, which is a week from today, fit into this kind of schedule, this kind of planning that the president might be considering right now?

GERGEN: That's a really good question. I think it provides -- the 9/11 anniversary provides a rationale, a strong rationale for why ISIS must be destroyed in his mind, and that is what we're already seeing in Britain, the fear of jihadists coming back from Syria, coming back from ISIS to -- into Britain. They've gone to a high state of alert over that. And we all know that as Secretary Hagel said yesterday here on CNN, with 100 -- at least 100 Americans having gone over to become jihadists, there's a real danger they'll come back. And so the president can use that 9/11 -- sort of the memories of 9/11 to, I think, unite the country.

As long as he has a well thought-out strategy, Wolf, and as long as it's one that people who say, oh, God, here we -- they don't say, here we go again. You know, one of the things that - I don't know how it struck you, but watching the Iraq president being interviewed by Christiane Amanpour a moment ago on your show, Wolf, is that it's just hard for me to see Americans rallying to say, oh, I'd really like to go save that guy. Or some parents saying, I wouldn't mind if my son was lost saving that guy. He's not exactly an inspiring, encouraging sort of symbol of what we want to go fight for. The president has got to give us that.

The beheadings have really given us an emotional charge. People understand now that -- how brutal ISIS is. But he has got to come along and say, here's what we're going to do about it and why I think it actually will work. (INAUDIBLE).

BLITZER: Because as you -- because as you know, and all of our viewers know, after, what, 10 years in Iraq and the enormous financial and personal, painful sacrifice that American military personnel made there, 12 years or so in Afghanistan, this country is pretty war weary right now. They've heard -- they remember in 2002, 2003, hearing all those warnings about what the threat was to the United States, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, nuclear potential and all of that and they say, what was the point?

GERGEN: Absolutely, Wolf. And you and I can remember when we had something called the Vietnam syndrome after the Vietnam War that there was a real reluctance, a real resistance on the part of the American people, never again. We don't want to get into the jungles of a place like that. And we were very reluctant to commit force as a country from the White House down through the public.

And now what we have, I believe, is an Iraq syndrome. And that is after the experiences, the war weariness, not only in Iraq but Afghanistan, people are just really, really reluctant, OK. So, you know, you see it again and again, people feel like we're not going to settle conflicts that go back 2,000 years. We're not going to do that in the next 20 months. And, you know, so they wonder, who wants to die defeating ISIS? On the other hand, we don't want any more beheadings.

BLITZER: Yes.

GERGEN: So, you know, we've got this tension and the president's -- the leadership is about convincing us what the right way to go is and getting people behind him in a parade.

BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about the crisis involving Russia and Ukraine. If the ISIS Middle East crisis weren't enough, the president's got to deal with Russia and Ukraine right now. And Estonia, where the president was before he flew to the NATO Summit in Wales, he delivered very strong words of support for Estonia, the other NATO allies in the region, especially those closest to Russia. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I say to the people of Estonia and the people of the Baltics, today we are bound by our treaty alliance. We have a solemn duty to each other. Article 5 is crystal clear, an attack on one is an attack on all. So if in such a moment you ever ask again who will come to help, you'll know the answer. The NATO alliance, including the armed forces of the United States of America, right here, present, now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Strong words from the president of the United States. But you know they are very nervous over there in eastern Europe, the NATO allies, not just of the Baltics but countries like Poland, for example. They wonder, and maybe they're being reassured right now by the rhetoric from the president, but they're concerned as they see what the Russians are up to in Ukraine and elsewhere.

GERGEN: Wolf, the peoples of the Baltics must have been reassured by the president's stout defense of them yesterday, insisting that we indeed, as NATO partners and allies, will defend them if they're attacked. I hope the people of Poland felt the same way.

What I think was missing from the president yesterday was an equally stout set of pledges for the people of Ukraine. We'll have to see what comes out of these NATO meetings. You know there's news that it's coming out of the meetings, it's been coming out here in the last couple of hours, as you know, about we're seeking stepped-up sanctions. I'm not sure stepped-up sanctions, unless they're really tough, are going to satisfy the desire and the anxiety of a lot of people that were giving Putin more of a pass than he deserves.

There's also a question, Wolf, to what extent the problems and the way the United States has responded in Syria, the way -- backing away from our red line, whether that has fed into Putin's aggressiveness and whether Putin's aggressiveness is then feeding back into ISIS (ph). In other words, are these two things feeding off each other? "The Financial Times" made that argument yesterday in an editorial that the sense of American retrenchment, Americans not wanting to be muscular either in the Middle East or in the Ukraine has, you know, that that is building up a syndrome in which other peoples sort of think they can take advantage of us, they could move into a vacuum. I think by the end of this NATO Summit, the president standing up with

the other NATO allies has got to send a message, we are united not only in the Middle East, but we're united against any - against Russian aggression in the Ukraine. We're going to roll this back. The Russians have to get out of Ukraine. We are not ceding to Crimea. We're not ceding eastern Ukraine. And Putin ought to get - we sent a loud and clear message, we are willing to do what it takes to get you the hell out of there.

BLITZER: Yes, and Ben Rhodes, the president's deputy national security adviser, is telling reporters only moments ago that the U.S. and the European nations, they are preparing a new round of sanctions against Russia. Ben Rhodes saying, among other things, at the same time, if there is a peaceful de-escalation, that is preferable, Russia must continue to face costs. Strong words coming from the U.S. We'll see what happens in Ukraine with Russia. Lots on the president's agenda right now.

He'll have a major news conference, by the way, tomorrow morning, 11:30 a.m. Eastern Time. CNN will, of course, have live coverage of that.

David, thanks very much.

Britain's battle against ISIS, it involves new measures to prevent an attack on the homeland. We're going to talk about the strategy, the growing terror threat with the former head of counterterrorism and Britain's MI-6. That's next.

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