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Wolf

Britain Taking Action to Neutralize ISIS Threat; Al Qaeda Plans Extension into India; Mitch McConnell in Hard Election Fight; Justice Department Investigates Ferguson Police Department.

Aired September 04, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Washington.

Great Britain now taking action to neutralize the threat of an ISIS attack on British soil. The prime minister, David Cameron, wants to temporarily block the return of U.K.-born jihadists from Syria and Iraq. And he's calling for a new law which would allow British citizens suspected of terrorism to be stripped of their passports.

Joining us now is Richard Barrett. He used to run Britain's anti- terror operations for the last 10 years.

Richard Barrett, thanks very much for joining us.

The prime minister's measures would require all airlines to comply with a government so-called no-fly list or be banned from landing in Britain. The U.K. also raised its terror threat level to severe, which means a terror attack is, quote, "highly likely." A lot of terror action going on right now, anti-terror action, I should say. Someone who used to run Britain's anti-terror operations, does this response right now surprise you?

RICHARD BARRETT, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, THE SOUFAN GROUP & FORMER DIRECTOR OF COUNTERTERRORISM: Well, clearly there's a lot of anxiety in the United Kingdom just as there is everywhere else in the world where -- from where foreign fighters have gone to fight in Syria and Iraq. And it makes every sense, of course, to introduce measures that make it harder for people to go and harder for people to come back. But, of course, that doesn't necessarily stop them all from going, nor indeed stop them all from coming back. And I think what I've learned over the last ten years working with the united nations on counterterrorism is that the key issue really to deal with is to understand why people are going in the first place and try and deal with those issues rather than merely trying to make it more difficult for them to go and come back.

BLITZER: Those are obviously long-term goals, but there's an immediate crisis right now apparently. 500 British citizens have gone to Iraq and Syria, have aligned themselves. They're fighting with Islamist groups. How big of a threat do they pose?

BARRETT: Well, they could pose, of course, a very big threat because even if people go over to Syria and Iraq with the very best of intentions of helping the community there initially, of course, in 2011 to counter Bashar al Assad, and what happens to them while they are there? Do they get really severely radicalized? Do they get trained in various techniques which might turn them into terrorists when they come home? But then, of course, we have to ask why they come home. And I think that many of them may want to come home because they just are completely revolted by the violence or that they're disillusioned or exhausted by what they see. Remember, war is brutal says. It's not a particularly inspiring experience for many people. And the Islamic state in Iraq and Syria, is, has managed to portrayal itself as a wonderful organization which is offering people the sense of identity and belonging and purpose and all these wonderful things. But in reality, of course, it is an extremely violent and evil organization. And many people will understand that just as soon as they make contact with it.

BLITZER: If some of these 500 who are now British citizens and maybe as many as 100 U.S. citizens, if they have now aligned themselves with is, participating in these brutal acts, killing individuals in Syria and Iraq, if they decide, you know what, I'm now revolted, I want to go back to London, I want to come back to the United States, when they come back, should they be charged with a crime?

BARRETT: Well, certainly I think those who have joined ISIS and taken part in violent activity should be charged, yeah. They may be able to bargain down their sentence or penalty by saying, look, we are now prepared to try and help you stop other people from going by telling them what it is that they're likely to get into. And that might be a deal that attracts the government. But essentially, if somebody has committed a crime, and under British law it is certainly a crime to go and fight with ISIS or the al Qaeda affiliate, then they must face the consequences of that. I don't think there's any doubt on that score.

BLITZER: Richard Barrett, thanks very much for joining us.

BARRETT: Thank you.

BLITZER: Still to come, a new threat from al Qaeda. Announcing a planned expansion of their terror network. This, while NATO discusses the growing threat from is. Peter Bergen, our terrorism expert, standing by to discuss.

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BLITZER: Al Qaeda has announced the planned expansion into India. The al Qaeda leader Ayman al Zawahiri's message was posted online. In it, he talks about the need for jihad in parts of India and the desire to, quote, "liberate its land."

Let's bring in our national security analyst, Peter Bergen, joining us today from Phoenix.

What's your take on this new al Qaeda message, specifically the substance and the timing?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I think, you know, Zawahiri is trying to get back some of the limelight that has been stolen by the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria. You know, ISIS has been dominating the news now for many months. Al Qaeda is sort of forgotten. In fact, one of the interesting things, Wolf, about the videotape was how boring it is, you know. I mean, here is -- you know, when you think about the ISIS social media campaign that they're waging, it's highly effective. It's well edited. It's exciting. There's music. Here you've got a picture of Ayman al Zawahiri sort of blabbing away for an half hour claiming that al Qaeda is going to set up an affiliate in India, the likelihood of which is very, very small. I mean, there are very small jihadist groups in India, but there's certainly no al Qaeda affiliate there. So this was just a very obvious attempt to try and get back in the news cycle.

BLITZER: So you're suggesting there may be a bit of a rivalry going on between core al Qaeda as it's now called and some of the other al Qaeda, you know, groups, like al Shabaab or ISIS or al Nusra or al Qaeda in the Maghreb, Boko Haram? Is there some sort of rivalry among these groups? Is that what you're suggesting?

BERGEN: Certainly, particularly between al Qaeda and ISIS. Al Qaeda has publicly rejected ISIS and vice versa. For the first time in history, al Qaeda has basically said an affiliate organization, which is ISIS, is no longer a part of al Qaeda proper. And there's a dispute about all sorts of things. There's a dispute about money. There's a dispute about power. There's a dispute about who has the global jihadi movement. And ISIS is, you know, the flavor of the month right now.

The reason all these Americans and Brits are going to Syria to fight with groups like ISIS is because, you know, these groups are winning. Al Qaeda certainly has never had large parts of the Middle East under its control, the vast resources that ISIS commands, the number of recruits it has. And you know, even al Zawahiri, in his mid-60s, is feeling no one's really paying attention to me.

BLITZER: In the last two weeks, two Americans have been killed by ISIS. They now threaten a third westerner, a Brit could be next. Is that something we should all be bracing for?

BERGEN: Unfortunately, yes. I mean, as you know, Wolf, neither the American nor the British governments will negotiate, exchange money, for these hostages. And you know, ISIS also is not a group you'd want to negotiate with in good faith. They've never really made any good- faith efforts with hostages. When they asked 100 million Euros for James Foley, that wasn't a serious demand. I think they've been, unfortunately, you know, keeping these hostages to make the kinds of statements we've already seen.

BLITZER: You think the allies are basically on the same page, the U.S., Britain, France, some of the other major NATO allies when it comes to understanding and appreciating this ISIS threat?

BERGEN: I think they're on the same page, but Europeans, Wolf, well understand that the threat is much more problematic for them. We've had had, you know, more than 700 French men go to Syria. We've had the 500 Brits you discussed with Richard Barrett just now. You know, and these are -- you know, you cannot follow 500 people effectively in Britain. It's just not possible. And of course, not all of them are people who have fought with ISIS. But the fact is that the problem is much more severe in Europe. You can drive from Paris to Damascus. You know, it's a lot harder for Americans to get to Syria. And the numbers that have gone are much lower. So they're on the same page that this is a problem, but I think it's a very different problem if you're looking at it from London or from Paris.

BLITZER: Peter Bergen, thanks very much for joining us.

BERGEN: Thank you.

BLITZER: I'll talk much more about this very same topic. The White House terrorism Homeland Security adviser, Lisa Monaco, she'll be among my guests later today in "The Situation Room," 5:00 p.m. eastern.

61 days until voters in Kentucky decide who they'll be sending to Washington. In this tight race, will the veteran Senator running as the candidate for change actually win, or will it be her, the newcomer? There's lots of twists in this race. Dana Bash standing by.

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BLITZER: We're now less than nine weeks away from Election Day and several Senate races are taking interesting turns. Last night, in Kansas, for example, Chad Taylor, dropped out. That strengthens the campaign of the independent candidate, Greg Orman, who is already a threat to Republican incumbent Senator, Pat Roberts.

In Alaska, one of the most vulnerable Democrats up for re-election is getting home from the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. The group has made a multimillion dollar ad buy for Senator Mark Begich against Republican, a recent attack ad Republican Dan Sullivan. Seemed to have back fired.

And in Kentucky, the Senate minority leader, Mitch McConnell, is hoping for a change in title. He wants to be the Senate minority leader. But has to get past a strong challenge to his own re-election first.

Here is chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(CHEERING)

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This year's marquis political race is a study in contrast. A 35-year-old Democrat, a Washington novice, running to be Kentucky's first female Senator.

ALLISON LUNDERGAN GRIMES, (D), KENTUCKY SENATE CANDIDATE: Mitch McConnell's Washington, well, it's not working for again ken.

BASH: The 72-year-old top Senate Republican in a fight of his life to win and take over the Senate.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, (R), KENTUCKY: There is nobody Barack Obama wants to beat worse than Mitch McConnell.

Mitch McConnell is the ultimate political tactician and old-school bring-home-the-bacon Senator. But he is not a warm and fuzzy campaigner at all.

Allison Lundergan Grimes is a natural at pushing the flesh with voters, but in interviews, she often sounds scripted.

(on camera): Give me some Kentucky candor. Is the president a drag on you here?

LUNDERGAN GRIMES: I think that Kentuckians are seeing this race for what it is, a chance to actually move Kentucky forward in the right direction.

BASH (voice-over): Grimes is giving McConnell his toughest challenge in years. Raking in campaign cash, getting help from family friend, Bill Clinton, airing clever TV ads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator, why did you vote two times against the violence against women act and against enforcing equal pay for women?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: His goal, tie her to President Obama, who in 2012 won only four of Kentucky's 120 counties and is even more unpopular now.

MCCONNELL: She is a new face for the status quo. A new face to vote for Barack Obama.

BASH: She paints him as the personification of Washington dysfunction.

LUNDERGAN GRIMES: He has nothing left to give to the people of this state, no new ideas. Actually, promising further gridlock.

BASH: You have to hear McConnell's retort to believe it. The 30-year Senate veteran is running as an agent of change.

MCCONNELL: The only thing they can do in 2014 to begin to change the direction of the country is change the makeup of the Senate.

BASH: And put him in charge.

(on camera): You know the joke that most Senators look in the mirror and see a future president. You -- at least I don't think --

(CROSSTALK)

MCCONNELL: I never had that problem.

BASH: -- is one of those people.

(LAUGHTER)

MCCONNELL: I didn't have that affliction.

(LAUGHTER)

BASH: But you have always wanted to be the majority leader of the Senate. Is that fair to say?

MCCONNELL: I would like to have a chance to be the majority leader of the Senate, yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: CNN's Dana Bash reporting.

The race, by the way, tight. According to the latest CNN/ORC poll, McConnell has a slim lead among likely voters but within the margin of error. There you see 50 to 46 percent. There's still plenty of time before Election Day. 19 percent of likely voters say they could change their mind before casting their ballot.

A new development out of Ferguson, Missouri, means a lot more focus on the police department there. Up next, the move, we're told, the Justice Department is getting ready to announce.

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BLITZER: Less man a month after the deadly shooting of Michael Brown, the Ferguson, Missouri, Police Department is about to face a lot more scrutiny. Officials are telling CNN, the U.S. Justice Department is planning a top-to-bottom investigation. We're waiting to hear from the attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, in the next hour. He will be making a major announcement.

Let's get right to our justice correspondent, Pamela Brown, over at the Justice Department here in Washington.

So tell us what we know. What does this exactly mean for the Ferguson Police Department?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, what this means, Wolf, is that the Justice Department civil rights decision is going to launch an investigation, we're told, in looking at a top-to-bottom look at the Ferguson Police Department to see if any changes need to be made there or whether or not there needs to be an overhaul. So investigators, in this case, are going to be looking at Ferguson Police Department's training, its operational practices, perhaps its hiring practices, to see that if any of its patterns or practices violate the federal law or the Constitution.

I want to make it clear, Wolf, this is separate from the other two federal and local investigations taking place in Ferguson right now, focusing specifically on the Michael Brown shooting. This investigation is focused on the Ferguson Police Department. At this point, it's unclear if this will expand to other departments. But we're being told it's just the Ferguson Police Department.

And Wolf, just to put this into context, in the past five years, the Justice Department has launched investigations into 20 police departments. Compare that, that's more than twice the number five years before that -- Wolf?

BLITZER: We're going to have live coverage, of course, of this important announcement from the attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, 2:30 p.m. eastern, a half hour or so from now. Stay with CNN in the next hour. You will hear Eric Holder's important announcement on this new investigation.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer, in Washington. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. Eastern, another special two- hour edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM."

In the meantime, NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.