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Wolf

Some Lawmakers Say Secret Service Director Must Go; Interview with Rep. Elijah Cummings; ISIS Air Strikes Cost $1 Billion; Interview with General John Allen; Deborah Wasserman-Schultz Talks Crises Facing Obama

Aired October 01, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Some lawmakers are now calling for the Secret Service director to resign because of the serious lapses in security. The director, Julia Pierson, was grilled for more than three hours during a hearing yesterday. Members of the panel were not satisfied with her answers.

Democratic Congressman Elijah Cummings is the ranking member of the committee that held the hearing. He joins us from Baltimore.

Congressman, you want her, the Secret Service director to go, is that right?

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS, (D), MARYLAND: I want her to go if she cannot restore trust in the agency and if she cannot get the culture back in order. I think she would agree that she has to go. And I told her that she's got a tall order there. But it's going to be very difficult.

BLITZER: I want you to listen to Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader in the House, what she said today. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I understand that she's the top person, the buck stops here, and there are those who are calling for her to step aside. Whether she does or not, I think we need an independent investigation. Her leaving doesn't end the need for us to know a lot more about what is happening. But, again, I would accept the recommendation of my ranking member on the committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: She's talking about you because she had heard that you were actually calling for her, Pierson, to step down. You want to respond to that?

CUMMINGS: Yeah. First of all, I agree with everything that Ms. Pelosi said. What I was saying was that we've got a cultural problem there. You've got Secret Service agents who would rather be whistle- blowers and talk to members of the committee as opposed to talking to their higher-ups in the Secret Service. And basically, you have a culture of distrust within the agency itself. I don't see how Ms. Pierson, the director, can make the kinds of changes that she said she wants to make if she can't even get proper information from her own people. And that's a problem. So she's got -- what I've said is that if she cannot restore this trust among her agents, if she cannot put them in a position where they feel comfortable in telling her and her higher-ups things that are going wrong with the agency or problems with various investigations and whatever, and if she cannot address the issue at the same time of training and protocol, and at the same time keep the president safe, I think she should go. And I think she would agree with me because I believe that she has served faithfully our country for 30 years. I think she's given a lot. But I also believe that her number-one priority is the protection of the president of the United States of America and his family and the other people that the Secret Service is duty-bound to protect.

BLITZER: Yeah, that's absolutely true. What's worse in your opinion? I know you've studied it closely. What's worse, some guy jumps over the fence, not only gets into the White House armed with a knife but gets into the East Room, or back in 2011, somebody fires seven shots at the White House and bullets actually hit the window of the residence area upstairs but no one notices that until the housekeeper four days later finds out about it, or when the president was recently at the CDC headquarters in Atlanta, some guy armed with a gun is allowed inside the elevator with the president of the United States? What's worse?

CUMMINGS: All of them are horrible. And all of them do not symbolize what I have always thought of the Secret Service as being, the number- one protective agency in the world, protecting the most powerful person in the world and guarding the most guarded house in the world. There's something wrong with this picture.

Wolf, we have one situation where the Secret Service had a reputation -- if you thought about even reaching for a pen around the president, people were very reluctant to do that because they were afraid of the Secret Service. But that now is being whittled away. Every day we seem to get more and more information about the kinds of things that you just talked about. So they've got to restore their reputation. But at the same time, and just as important, they've got to do things with regard to training, culture, protocol, making sure that the agency is all that we've always thought it to be.

Right now, the thing that's hurting them, too, is the reputation is getting diminished. The mere fact that you and I are talking about this right now, talking about the Secret Service right now is diminishing their image. And that image, that reputation, Wolf, is extremely important because that reputation is largely a big reason why there is so much deterrence with regard to anybody trying to go after the president or the vice president and others.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I was just going to say, I know there's enormous fear out there by U.S. law enforcement, by others, people who protect the president. This sends an awful message to terrorists out there who think maybe they can get close to the president. You're worried about that, too, right?

CUMMINGS: Wolf, I am very worried about that. When I think about this fellow, Gonzalez, the one that jumped over the fence, and the idea -- suppose that guy came over that fence with a machine gun or suppose there were five or six of them at the same time. I am not convinced that the Secret Service had everything in place to address an issue like that. And that's -- and as they're watching us right now, people are saying, wow, maybe this is something I ought to try. I don't want them even to imagine, imagine, imagine, imagining that they can pierce the shield of the Secret Service to do harm to our president and others. I don't want them --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Elijah Cummings, we have to wrap it up. Thanks very much for joining us. It's an important discussion. And I hope lessons are learned because priority number one for the Secret Service, to protect the president and the first family.

CUMMINGS: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much, Elijah Cummings.

We'll be right back. More of the breaking news right after this.

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BLITZER: Tens of thousands of people are in the streets of Hong Kong for a fourth day. Right now, the pro-democracy protests are peaceful. But that could soon change. Many who had the public holiday day off, they joined the student protesters today.

There's a call now for the Hong Kong chief executive to resign. And now one of the main protest organizing groups is threatening to escalate the operation if he doesn't step down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translation): If he doesn't step down by tonight or tomorrow night, we will announce to escalate the operation. This means to occupy different important government buildings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The student movement has said they are open to direct discussions with the Hong Kong or Chinese government. It's a very tense situation. We'll see what develops.

Turning to the battle against ISIS, there are several types of ISIS targets being hit in Iraq and Syria. Air strikes are hitting command- and-control sites, heavy weaponry of sites helping to finance the terror group. Air strikes, which started in August, have now cost the United States, we're told, around $1 billion.

Joining us now is David Cohen. He's the Treasury Department's undersecretary for terrorism and financial intelligence. Mr. Secretary, thanks very much for coming in.

DAVID COHEN, UNDERSECRETARY FOR TERRORISM AND FINANCIAL INTELLIGENCE, U.S. TREASURY DEPARTMENT: Good to be here.

BLITZER: They have a lot of money, ISIS, or as you call it, ISIL. They have hundreds of millions of dollars basically that they've stolen from banks in Mosul, other major cities.

COHEN: Well, ISIL does have substantial resources in terms of funds that they have. The precise amount of money, I don't think we should overestimate how well-funded they are. But they are undoubtedly a well-funded terrorist organization. But that doesn't mean we don't have tools to address how ISIL raises its money, moves its money --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: I want you to tell me what are the U.S. Treasury Department and others doing? But we were told, when they took over Mosul, the second-largest city in Iraq, almost two million people, they ransacked all the banked there, all the gold bullion, all that cash, just took it out. They got, the estimates I've heard, they have hundreds of millions of dollars. You have lower numbers?

COHEN: I don't have a precise figure to give you, Wolf. And there's no question that is has substantial financial resources. But the question really is, will they be able to continue to replenish those resources, will they be able to use those resources, and what can we do to undermine their financial strength.

BLITZER: So what are you doing?

COHEN: A couple of things. One of the areas where there's been a lot of attention paid is that ISIL has assess to some oil and are trying to sell oil on the black market and are selling oil on the black market.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Supposedly up to $3 million a day they're getting?

COHEN: Yeah. Again, I think the precise figures aren't the issue. What's important is we work with our partners within the U.S. government and internationally so that we disrupt ISIS's ability to sell oil --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Is that because of the air strikes or bombing those oil facilities or because you've got some other sanctions or something else in the works that's stopping them from selling the oil on the black market?

COHEN: I think it's a multi-phased approach. From the Treasury Department's perspective, what we are doing is working to identify who is involved in the chain of transactions. At some point, there is someone who is purchasing this oil that they're going to refine and try and sell. Those people have relationships with the banking sector. Those are people who we're identifying. We can apply sanctions against them but we can also message those people and make clear to them the danger that they're putting themselves in if they handle this type of --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: We have a limited amount of time. But are wealthy supporters of ISIS, whether in Qatar or other countries, still able to send cash to these terrorists?

COHEN: One of the ways in which ISIL is funded is through external donations. It's not the most important way but it is a mechanism where they have raised funds in the past. One of the things that we're dedicated to doing is ensuring that ISIL is not able to tap into external financing that --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Has that happened yet?

COHEN: We have designated a number of ISIL fundraisers in the gulf and we're continuing to look at those fundraising networks to ensure that ISIL doesn't look to external donations as a way to continue to fund themselves.

BLITZER: Good luck. It's a tough mission. And we're counting on you and your team over there to stop it. Although, I suspect it's going to take a long, long time. It's not going to be resolved in a week or two. It could go on months and even years.

COHEN: We'll be working hard on it for a long period of time.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, thanks very much.

COHEN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, the fight against ISIS. We'll hear from the man who is now coordinating the coalition against ISIS in Syria. This is an exclusive to CNN. Stay with us.

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BLITZER: France now expanding its commitment to the anti-ISIS coalition. Three more planes and a warship will join operations around Iraq. That's good news for retired U.S. General John Allen, the former commander in Afghanistan, who has now been chosen by President Obama to coordinate the coalition attacks against ISIS. General Allen sat down for an exclusive interview with our own global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott. Elise is joining us now.

So give us some of the headlines. What did he say?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it was a very wide-ranging interview. The first interview General Allen has done since taking the post. He's leaving tonight for the region where he'll try to co-coordinate this coalition effort. And a lot of that is training up the Syrian opposition, making sure that they can be what he calls the boots on the ground to take advantage of those U.S. air strikes. And we talked about the formidable challenge that the U.S. and its partners have ahead in making the Free Syrian Army a credible force.

Take a listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: President Obama said a few months ago it was, quote, "a fantasy" to expect that you could train these Free Syrian Army guys to combat Assad. Now you have this brutal ISIS army that you also want them to tackle. How are they going to do that in the short-term?

GEN. JOHN ALLEN, COMMANDER, ANTI-ISIS COALITION: In the short-term, we'll continue to support them in their ongoing operations. But over the long-term, the intent is to build credible forces, vetted forces, credible forces with --

(CROSSTALK)

LABOTT: It's going to take a while.

ALLEN: Well, it is, yes. We've been saying that all along. It could take years, actually. And so we have to manage our expectations. But the process of getting that unfolded is occurring right now with the idea of locating training camps and beginning to accumulate the Syrian elements that will go into those training camps and ensuring that we have the right combination of trainers who can provide the substance that they're going to need to be credible and capable fighters on the ground as time goes on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: Wolf, remember, this was the man who led the Sunni awakening in Iraq in 2007, getting those Sunni tribes to turn away from al Qaeda. He says that he thinks he can get that done again, get those Sunni tribes to turn away from ISIS. He said, "As sure as the sun shines," he says that the Sunni tribes will be turning away from ISIS. And the U.S. is also working to train up those Iraqi forces to be those boots on the ground in Iraq -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Elise, Good work. Thanks very much.

And to our viewers, a lot more of Elise's exclusive interview coming up later today in "The Situation Room," 5:00 p.m. eastern.

ISIS isn't the only battle President Obama is now facing. He's also working to contain this new Ebola threat here in the United States. The first diagnosed case in the United States confirmed just yesterday. We'll discuss that and a lot more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: President Obama facing multiple crises all at the same time, from the war against ISIS, to the global threat of Ebola, now new concerns about competence of U.S. Secrete service.

Let's discuss this and more with Florida congresswoman and chair of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

Lots going on. You have given up a couple of political questions. The Democrats will not be the majority in the House of Representatives, right?

REP. DEBORAH WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ, (D-FL), CHAIR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I think we'll have an election in which we pick up seats in the House of Representatives and I think that we'll hold the Senate. And I know there's a lot of pundits who predict otherwise, but I think there will be a lot of surprise.

(CROSSTALK)

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: We're focused on getting out the vote. That's the most important thing right now. Our resources are being invested all across the country. This is an election that will depend on turnout.

BLITZER: I assume the Republicans -- everyone assumes Republicans will be majority in the House. But what are you doing to make sure that Democrats don't lose the majority in the Senate?

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: We're investing all across the country. We have a vote -- from DNC's perspective, we have a voter expansion program that we launched. Hired voter expansion directors focused with working with state parties and making sure that we marry out digital and technological advantage with our grassroots, an advantage that we've built over a decade. And we think we're going to out-organize and out-mobilize Republicans like we have in other elections.

BLITZER: I want to give you a chance to respond to your critics who have been going after you. For saying the Republican governor of Wisconsin, in your words, "are giving women the back of his hand." And there have been a lot of criticism of you for using that kind of language. Was it a mistake?

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: I've already said that I chose the wrong words. But that shouldn't distract from the fact that Scott Walker's policies are terrible for women. This is a guy who actually signed a bill that repealed protection that women have in Wisconsin for equal pay for equal work. What I'm focused on is making sure we do everything we can to draw contrast between Republican extremism and Democratic candidates who are focused on creating jobs, getting the economy turned around.

BLITZER: The phrase of "giving women the back of the hand," apparently, you used it a couple other times or one other time. No more. You won't say that anymore?

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Like I said, my goal there was to highlight the fact that Scott Walker and Rick Scott, for that matter -- (CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: The governor of Florida.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Yes. Both have terrible policies that affect women and voters need to know that. That's what I'll continue to highlight over the next 34 hours.

BLITZER: The economy clearly has improved over these past six years.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Yes.

BLITZER: When the president took office, 800,000 jobs a month were going away. Jobs have been created.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: And the deficit has been cut in half.

BLITZER: The deficit. The Dow Jones has gone from 7,000 to 17,000. But he doesn't get much credit for that. Why?

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: This is a president who inherited more problems at once than any president since FDR and has continued to keep his head down and focus on what was important without cooperation from the Republicans. In fact, right before we adjourned for the recess, their important priority was suing the president for doing his job when they couldn't do their job. And one year ago today, they voted to shut the government down in the name of denying people access to quality, affordable health care. Let's remember, 800,000 federal workers were furloughed. Children were turned away from NIH programs in which they could get life-saving treatments potentially. Head Start programs were shuttered and children couldn't go to those pre-K programs.

So we're facing an election, Wolf, in which Republicans, like Mitch McConnell and Marco Rubio, are threatening, if in charge, they'll do that yet again. Use those tactics, if they don't get their way, shut the government down and really throw this economy into chaos.

BLITZER: You have less than five weeks to go before these midterm elections.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: 34 days.

BLITZER: A third of the Senate, the entire House of Representatives, a bunch of gubernatorial races. We'll have extensive coverage here on CNN.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Look forward to celebrating on Election Day.

(LAUGHTER)

BLITZER: The chair of the Democratic Party and the Democratic congresswoman from Florida, Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Thanks.

BLITZER: Thanks very much for joining us. WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ: Thanks for having me.

BLITZER: That's it for me. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern on "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "AMANPOUR" is next, right after a quick break.

And for our viewers in North America, "NEWSROOM" with Brooke Baldwin starts after a quick break.

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