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Seal Team Secrecy Broken; Religious Clashes in Jerusalem; Jews Increase Pressure for Prayer at Temple Mount; Interview with Mark Regev; Supreme Court to Review Another Part of Obamacare; Kim Jong-Il Bodyguard Describes Horror in North Korea.

Aired November 07, 2014 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome back.

Many of you likely have heard by now that it was SEAL Team 6, the elite of the elite of U.S. special forces, that carried out the raid that killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. Now, one of those normally anonymous SEALs is speaking out publically and taking personal credit for firing the fatal shot. His name is Robert O'Neill. He was in the SEALs for more than a dozen years at the time of the bin Laden raid. Now he's a motivational speaker. In an interview with "The Washington Post," he says he fired the bullet that killed bin Laden. But others tell CNN that O'Neill's account is flawed. They also say that his admission could damage future missions.

I want to bring in former Army Delta Force commander and current CNN global affairs analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Jim Reese.

Thanks very much for joining us.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Jim, I want to ask you because as Delta Force commander, you've been on many difficult and dangerous raids as well. If someone under your command did the same thing, went public with the details, took credit for something after a raid like this, how would you treat him?

REESE: Well, Jim, it's difficult. I mean we have had people in Delta write books. In fact, in 1983, the founder of the Delta Force, the guy who literally started the tier one units, Colonel Charlie Beckwith, wrote the book "The Delta Force."

I think what everyone has to realize is there is a standard. You can write a book but you have to follow the standards of the Department of Defense and have it reviewed. One of the problems is the Department of Defense, Pentagon, Special Operations Command, they can take a long time. I know a former Delta guy who wrote a book and it took 18 months to review. One of the things that happens with these guys is they get pushed up against editors and publishers and some of them decide they are not going to go that route.

SCIUTTO: But do you find this is violating loyalties somehow? Not just team loyalty but also security threat because you're revealing methods, which could give -- which could help the enemies in future missions to know how these teams operate.

REESE: Yes. If someone puts out a tactic technique, a procedure, a method, how we do something, how we infill, it's going to give away to the enemy, and those other guys out there now could hurt them. Yes, absolutely, we need to prosecute to the full extent of the law.

But I think, though, that the U.S. people also need to know about these men, what they are going through, what they are feelings are. It's a great story and I think the U.S. people have to do it. I think what the Pentagon has to come to is some type of middle ground. With the information age today, Twitter, Facebook, all of these things, some of the rules they have are a bit archaic and we have to come to a middle ground to find out, how do we get the story out and at the same way protect the classifications.

SCIUTTO: True. I've ran into that many times when I've reported on classified or secret missions, et cetera. There's also a fairness issue here because, in Washington, it seems like there's a former administration official writing about, if not classified military operations, but private conversations with the president. You've had several former Obama administration officials, including the former director of the CIA and defense secretary, Leon Panetta. Is there a fairness issue here that they can write books but the Delta team cannot do the same thing?

REESE: Jim, there's not. The bottom line is guys have to realize there's a double standard. And we know that going in. We need to think about our oath of office and realize we're in a military that works for a civilian leadership and that's the deal. You know, one guy who goes out there and tries to fight the Department of Defense, the Pentagon, White House, they are not going to win.

SCIUTTO: It's interesting, it's blowing up on Twitter. I asked Twitter followers whether they thought this was fair. I had Chris, for instance, write back, "No. The Navy SEAL is giving up information that shouldn't be told just as with former administration officials." That no one should be able to write these books. But we know there's a lot of money in it.

Thanks very much, Jim Reese, former Delta Force commander.

REESE: Thank you.

SCIUTTO: Overseas, the ruthless regime of former North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Il. A former bodyguard witnessed it all up close and that defector is now describing in frightening detail what he saw.

And after weeks of violence and religious clashes, will calm be restored to Jerusalem? We're going to ask our next guest.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Jim Sciutto, in for Wolf Blitzer, who is on assignment today.

In Jerusalem, normally, the day of prayer is on Friday. Today is certainly not a day of peace.

As Nic Robertson is telling us, there's a number of factors fueling the unrest there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, tensions and security has been high throughout the day here. As night fell in one neighborhood in east Jerusalem, firecrackers were thrown at security forces here. They responded with tear gas. The air in some of those neighborhoods hanging heavy with the smell of tear gas for quite a while.

Earlier in the day, in the refugee camp, Palestinian medical sources say clashes there resulted in 30 Palestinians being injured by what they say were rubber bullets fired by Israeli security forces. What we know about that neighborhood, that's the neighborhood where the man who drove the van into Israeli border guards at the tram stop in Jerusalem on Wednesday. That's where he came from. We've also learned that one other person died as a result of the injuries in that attack. A 17-year-old religious student died from injuries sustained in that attack on Wednesday.

There have been other outbreaks of violence and clashes in the West Bank today. These all off the back or part of the tensions because of this push by right-wing Jews to get access to the Temple Mount, the Noble Sanctuary to perform prayers there. The rabbi, who was injured in a shooting, he was pushing the agenda of prayers there. He was injured in a shooting almost two weeks ago now. His family now reporting that he is communicating with them -- Jim?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our Nic Robertson in Jerusalem.

We want to talk more about the violence there and in the West Bank.

We have Israeli government spokesman, Mark Regev, joining us now.

Mark, thank you for giving us the time.

You heard Nic reference the holy site. It's the one Muslims know as the Noble Sanctuary. Jews know it as the Temple Mount. Jews can visit the site. They can't pray there. But there's pressure from the far right to change that. In light of the intense tensions under way right now in Jerusalem, why the need at this point to push for that access now in the midst of this? Because one could infer from that that parties there are trying to, by doing that, stoke the violence.

MARK REGEV, ISRAEL GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Well, the position of the government is clear. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been equivocal. We will not change the status quo. It will be maintained. That status quo allows Muslim prayer on the compound there and it allows non-Muslims, Jews and Christians, to visit the site, because it's also holy, for people of other faiths. That sort of framework has been the basis for live and let live for years now and we think it should be maintained.

This is a very special city for millions of people across the planet and we want it to be peaceful and calm and we want everyone to be able to practice their faith freely and safely.

SCIUTTO: Well, as this violence has continued there, there have been weeks, as we now, of unrest. In Jerusalem, four people dead from attacks on pedestrians in Jerusalem in the past three weeks. The prime minister instructing the demolishing of homes of terrorists. Why is that practice being brought back by the government?

REGEV: We're considering it again as an important vehicle in deterring terrorist attacks. You have a problem now with what you would call lone-wolf terrorism where a specific individual motivated by an Islamic extremist world outlook, gets into a motor vehicle -- we've seen it in Canada and now Jerusalem -- and they turn a motor vehicle into a weapon of death. They put their foot on the accelerator and drive into a crowd of people trying to kill people. And one of the ways to deter that person is to make sure that they will understand and pay a price for that act, because obviously they don't care about their own lives. But if we can create a deterrent, hopefully, we'll save lives.

This is only one tool in a whole toolbox. What we're trying to do now is calm things down. The terrorists want violence. I think most people in Jerusalem and the government of Jerusalem want peace and quiet. And we're trying to restore peace and calm to all of the citizens of Jerusalem as quickly as possible. Today was more quiet than yesterday was. And I'm hopeful that tomorrow will be even quieter and slowly but surely we'll get back to a routine where this city becomes peaceful again.

SCIUTTO: Is there any evidence that it works as a deterrent? Did it work in the past? Did destroying the homes of the families of terrorists to prevent future terror attacks?

REGEV: I was in a security discussion with the prime minister and the heads of the different security teams -- I think it was on Thursday night. And it is a determent, and I'll explain why. Unfortunately, these sort of suicide bombers, suicide drivers, these terrorists, amongst certain elements in the Islamist radical community, when they become suicide bombers, they are put up on a pedestal and become heroes in that culture and their family receives money and presents. By the tactic of housing demolitions, you balance out the field. In other words, by becoming a suicide warrior for the extremist cause, they are getting a lot of tangible benefits from their own radical community. And once again, the housing demolition sort of balances out the playing field and creates a deterrent where normal deterrence does not apply, because these people are not afraid to die for their extreme cause.

It's important to remember that the real threat to peace and security in Jerusalem is the same threat in Iran or Syria or Iraq. It's the Islamic extremists who don't care about human life. It's a very radical agenda. And we've got to make sure that we contain the threat that they pose.

SCIUTTO: Mark Regev, joining us from Jerusalem now, thanks very much for joining us.

We'll have more right after this break.

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SCIUTTO: We're going to return now to a story we reported a short time ago as it broke, and that is big news today from the U.S. Supreme Court. The justices announcing they will review another controversial part of Obamacare. It involves tax credit subsidies for policies bought through Obamacare health exchanges.

Here to explain the significance of all of this, CNN senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeffrey Toobin, this sounds like inside baseball here. But how significant could this be for the survival of Obamacare?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is the farthest thing from inside baseball, because this is very simple that this is a law -- this is a case that could cost millions of people their health insurance.

Let me try to explain it simply. The Obamacare law, the Affordable Care Act, said states could set up these exchanges where people could buy health insurance, and if you couldn't afford the health insurance, there would be subsidies for you. 16 states set up the exchanges. 34 states, mostly red states, Republican states, said we don't want to set up these exchanges, so the federal government set up an exchange where people could buy health insurance subsidies. What this case is about is whether the people in those 34 states can get subsidies for their health insurance. And already something like four million people have already gotten subsidies for their health insurance. So the question is, will those four million people or so keep their health insurance if the Obama administration loses this case?

SCIUTTO: So this would affect the 34 states that did not pursue this on their own, correct? It applies only to those states, not the 16 that are pursing it themselves?

TOOBIN: That's right. That's what the case is about. And it's about the subsidies to the people who can't afford to pay the full rate.

SCIUTTO: It's remarkable when there's been talk of an activist Supreme Court here. Is this the Supreme Court jumping into the realm of the legislative body again, getting in the way of this? Is that your view?

TOOBIN: Well, that's certainly the view of Democrats and critics of this court because this whole -- the whole Affordable Care Act was based on the premise that anybody could get a subsidy. That was the whole argument in favor of it. But there is one line, essentially what supporters of the law say is a typographical error, and opponents of the law have used this one line to say, no, no, no, you can only get subsidies from a state exchange, not from a federal exchange. That's what the whole case is about. It's about one line in the law, and the health insurance of millions of people depends on how the Supreme Court interprets this one line. It's not about the Constitution. It's simply about what the law says.

SCIUTTO: You're a lawyer. You've done cases like this before. Do you see enough in that line for the Supreme Court to go that way on this decision and strike it down?

TOOBIN: They could. They absolutely could. This has become a big cause among the conservative legal world, this case. The D.C. Circuit originally voted to strike down this part of the law. Then that decision was vacated, was overruled. The D.C. Circuit was planning to hear it on its own, but now everything is on hold because the Fourth Circuit, which upheld Obamacare, that appeal is the one that the Supreme Court took, and everything else is going to be on hold while the Supreme Court decides -- decides what the meaning of the law is.

SCIUTTO: You call this a tough week for Obamacare. The GOP-led Congress, they're going to work to repeal it. The Supreme Court with this decision.

TOOBIN: Really tough. Really bad.

SCIUTTO: Really bad. You called it a disaster, I think.

In another story, haunting memories from the former bodyguard of the North Korean late leader, Kim Jong-Il. He opens up about the ruthless regime, its brutal boot camps and the punishment given anyone who even slightly annoyed the former dictator. The terrifying details right after this.

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SCIUTTO: After a mysterious six-week disappearance, North Korean Leader Kim Jong-Un is back in the spotlight. State propaganda giving the full appearance of a commander-in-chief. The regime releasing these new photographs of him walking without a cane. While out in the public eye, the 35-year-old leader reportedly had surgery to remove a cyst from his right ankle. The condition can be brought on by weight gain, arthritis or gout.

Kim's father, the late Kim Jung-Il, also ruled North Korea with an iron fist. And now a man who served as his bodyguard for a full 10 years describes that harrowing experience.

Here's CNN's Paula Hancocks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(SHOUTING)

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Not for the retarded or weak headed -- (SHOUTING)

HANCOCKS: This is boot camp for North Korea's military elite. Ultimate disciple, stress of body and mind over matter, basic qualifications to protect those at the top.

Lee Yong Gook (ph) was bodyguard to the late Kim Jong-Il for 10 years just before he took over as leader for North Korean. He says he went through very similar training.

(on camera): Why is this important, to be able to break tiles with your head? Why does this matter?

LEE YONG GOOK (ph), FORMER BODYGUARD TO KIM JONG-IL: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

HANCOCKS: "A handgun doesn't win a war," He tells me. "Tai Kwon Do serves nothing but the spirit. It is being used to develop loyalty. They're trying to make them think that by training like this, they can beat the U.S. military."

Lee says his training was ideological, brainwashing him to believe Kim Jong-Il was a god and he had been born with the sole purpose of protecting him. He describes what he refers to as the two faces of the former leaders.

"When he's happy," he says, "he'll give gold bars to people. When he's not, it doesn't matter how loyal you are. He would kill you in an instance. His advisers were too scared to tell him the truth about the country.

Sometimes they would even run away when they saw him coming and hide in the grass." "To survive," he says, "they would flatter him."

Lee says Kim Jong-Il was cruel. He sent one senior official to a concentration camp for once using his private elevator and ashtray. The official died there, according to Lee.

But he fears his son, Kim Jong-Un, who he met many times when he was a small boy, may be even more brutal.

"Kim Jong-Un killed his uncle," he says, "who even Kim Jong-Il would not kill. As power was handed down to the third generation, it became crueler. Kim Jong-Un has created loyalty but it is fake. It's based on fear."

After he was caught trying to escape North Korea in 1994, Lee was sent to a political camp. He says he survived five years of starvation and torture to tell the world what his former boss was really like. A man who experienced the two extremes of North Korean life and survived to tell the tale.

Paula Hancocks, CNN, Seoul.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Loyalty based on fear in North Korea. That's all for me today.

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is up next after a quick break.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right at the top of the hour.

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BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go on this Friday afternoon. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Great to be with you.

A major break today in this murder case that until today has been as baffling as it has been unsettling. There is --