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Obama Ready to Battle GOP on Immigration; GOP Vows to Fight Obama Tooth and Nail; House Approves Keystone Pipeline Bill; Russian Threat; Unstable Nukes; Russia Denies Sending Tanks into Ukraine; U.S. Nuke Program; Interview with Rep. Adam Schiff

Aired November 14, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Right now, Obama's immigration gamble. Republicans say they will fight it tooth and nail. Even some Democrats are skeptical and both sides are gearing up for battle.

Also, revelations about the U.S. nuclear arsenal that are difficult to believe, including details of a single wrench that three different nuclear bases had to share. Today, the secretary of defense unveils steps to fix those problems.

And the appalling string of events that allowed a fence jumper to make it inside the White House. I'll speak with the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee who was ordered a top-to-bottom review of the secret service.

Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto in today for Wolf Blitzer. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

President Obama gets ready to throw down the gauntlet on immigration reform. He's preparing to take executive action as early as next week on his overseas trip today. The president said Republicans in Congress have already had their chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I gave the House over a year to go ahead and at least give a vote to the Senate bill. They failed to do so. And I indicated to Speaker Boehner several months ago that if, in fact, Congress failed to act, I would use all the lawful authority that I possess to try to make the system work better. And that's going to happen. That's going to happen before the end of the year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The president's promise to go it alone is infuriating Republicans. House Speaker John Boehner made this promise in response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), U.S. SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We're going to fight the president tooth and nail if he continues down this path. This is the wrong way to govern. This is exactly what the American people said on Election Day they didn't want.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The White House is still working out details of the executive action but a senior administration official outlined what it is likely to do. It would allow the parents of children who are U.S. citizens to stay in the country legally. It would protect illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. as children and provide a clear deportation policy for convicted criminals.

Let's bring in White House Correspondent Michelle Kosinski and Chief Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash.

Michelle, I want to start with you. We are, what, 10 days since a brutal loss in the midterm election. Talk of the possibility of the president reading -- reaching out to the Republicans. Why so defiant from the White House on this issue?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think the president has spelled it out time and time again. I mean, remember, we've been asking about this for months. And, ideologically, the president has said that he feels this is the right thing to do, it's something that he promised to do a long time ago. And he did take action on immigration in 2012 with some deferred action, deferring deportation for some.

So, he said that he has warned Congress that he's going to do this action, almost a call to action to them. And he said, you know, the time for talk is over, now is the time for action. And keeps reminding everyone that this passed -- immigration reform passed with bipartisan support in the Senate but the House never took up. And what you get from the White House is that, you know, it's the last straw. You've had enough time, now we're going to do something. You can't be surprised or too angry because we've been telling you that we're going to do this for a long time. And that's where they stand, Jim.

SCIUTTO: So, Dana, Republicans promising to fight the president tooth and nail. What legislative weapons do they have in there's arsenal? Can they stop this?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not many legislative weapons. There are discussions trying to figure out the answer to that question going on, as we speak, all morning, all yesterday. And I've been talking to many Republican House members in these hallways and the answer is that they think that there are potential options. One is the power of the purse which is really Congress' biggest tool, constitutionally, and that would be to try to stop any funding for the president to implement the immigration policies that he does by executive order.

But that is very hard. It comes with big risks. The biggest is a potential government shutdown because the funding for the entire government runs out December 11th. And the question is whether or not Republicans want to proactively do away with funding before December 11th or wait until afterwards. Beforehand, that could cause a government shutdown.

Republicans I've talked to are split on whether or not that's a good strategy. The other is put some kind of legal action. Again, that is wrought with questions and, you know, unknowns because they could try to sue him saying that he is overstepping his bounds. But they have to really get their ducks in a row to make sure that that is accurate. There's talk of an injunction.

So, there are lots of options that they have but Republicans will admit there's no real good option if the president wants to do this by executive order. It's going to cause a big, big, big blowup, politically and legislatively.

SCIUTTO: So, Michelle, you hear from some in the White House that this sense that there will be a big political blowup is overblown. Where do they get that sense from?

KOSINSKI: Well, you know, we were having this conversation, in fact, with some senior administration officials, completely off the record a few nights ago, and just, you know, the sense that you get is that a lot of this is rhetoric. And you do hear that a lot. Again, -- then again, you know, that conversation comes with a lot of tempering and maybe some optimism as well. But they know that the reaction was going to be out there. Even if it's, I don't know, 50 percent or 40 percent rhetoric and the rest real potential action, they knew that that was going to be there.

But their stance, again, is that Congress has been put on notice to take action and the president said, OK, well, I am going to do this. Congress can pass something on their own, that comprehensive immigration reform that has been called for for such a long time. And then, that can supersede my executive action.

So, in the midst of this fight with all these somewhat violent analogies being thrown around, that is kind of a back and forth, in reality, that could happen down the road that Congress does something about it. It wouldn't likely be to the extent of what the president does but, hey, we'll see, maybe it will be something.

BASH: If I may, let me tell you quickly --

SCIUTTO: Sure.

BASH: -- why it's not just rhetoric and it is a reality is that you have to remember that when we look at, let's say, polls, national polls, and even if polls or exit polls show that there is support largely for going ahead and giving some at least legal status to illegal or undocumented immigrants, the reality that most House members are living in is a reality of their districts, the voters who sent them here. And most of those districts have been extremely gerrymandered. And what that means is that they're highly, highly conservative.

So, their biggest fear with their own electorate, their own voters, is this very conservative voters to say that, you know, that they -- if they go forward with this and if they don't fight the president, they're going to get blamed and they're going to get challenged from the right. So, that is the reality that many -- frankly, most of these House Republicans are living in.

SCIUTTO: No question. And that effects virtually every piece of legislation that comes on the floor of the House.

One thing, just moments before we went to air, the House voted to approve legislation to construct the controversial Keystone Pipeline. The vote 252 to 151, a bipartisan result. Dana, was that a surprise and what's the next step?

BASH: It's not a surprise given the fact that the House is overwhelmingly supportive of going ahead with the Keystone Pipeline. The timing is just fascinating to watch because the only reason the House passed this again, they've done it before, is so they can give a boost to the Republican, who is now a House member, running for a Senate in Louisiana. That last hold-out race in Louisiana. There's a recount next month. The reason they did that is because over in the Senate there is going to be finally a vote for the first time on the Senate floor, thanks to the Democrat, Mary Landrieu, trying to keep her seat. She's pushing that. She thinks it's good for her constituents, good for her brand. And so, because there's going to be a Senate vote which is going to be the big news next week, the House did their due diligence in passing it today.

SCIUTTO: Imagine that, election politics taking place in Washington.

BASH: Shocking.

SCIUTTO: Shocking, impossible to understand. Thanks very much, Dana Bash.

BASH: But the fact that it's over -- the election's over and it's still happening. That is (INAUDIBLE.)

SCIUTTO: Exactly, and will never stop. Dana Bash on the Hill, Michelle Kosinski at the White House.

Coming up next, reports that Russian troops and tanks are crossing into Ukraine. We're going to take you there live.

And later, systematic problems in America's nuclear management. Pentagon officials say they need billions of dollars to fix a potential national security risk. But will they get it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: On the heels of this week's APEC summit in China, world leaders are now headed to Australia for the G-20 economic summit. But Russia Vladimir Putin is not traveling alone. He's brought along a warship, the flagship of the Russian Pacific fleet, in fact. A cruiser is now off Australia's east coast in the Coral Sea. Russia says it's there for research but could also be used for extra security for President Putin. Australia's Navy responded by sending some of its own to the area just in case and perhaps to send a message. Well, Ukraine is expected to be a hot topic of discussions at that G- 20 summit. NATO says that more Russian tanks and heavy weapons, including artillery, are crossing the border into Ukraine. Russia, again, denies it.

Our Phil Black is live in Kharkiv in northeastern Ukraine. Phil, you know, you speak to U.S. intelligence and defense officials here, NATO officials. They say that satellite photos prove that those weapons are coming across the border, other forms of surveillance. You can see videos on YouTube. On the ground where you are, is there any doubts that Russian weapons are being supplied to the -- to the pro- Russian separatists in Ukraine?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Not a great deal. No, Jim. Indeed, the view among Ukrainians, certainly from the Ukrainian government, is that these forces are moving over. They have moved over in (INAUDIBLE) numbers in recent days. And, for that reason, they are of the belief that some sort of widening of the conflict and initiative by the separatists forces with significant Russian backing is about to take place. The Ukrainian President, Petro Poroshenko, said they've preparing for this. They thought there was always the possibility that it could happen. They've been preparing for it. They believe that they are ready.

But in the event that this worst-case scenario for them does take place, it won't be as simple as that. The Ukrainian forces have repeatedly shown that they're not up to squashing the separatists when the -- when those separatists are receiving considerable assistance. And so, in that event, repelling any possible attack will not be easy. And what it means is the Ukrainian government is very much looking at the possibility of losing yet more territory to the separatists, to pro-Russian forces in the event that a major operation is launched in the coming days.

In the meantime, there is certainly fighting ongoing in this region. At one point, the Ukrainian government has said today that a five- year-old girl is the latest victim of shelling by separatist forces. So, the violence still continues, especially around the airport near the major city of Donetsk. All of it proof that the cease-fire that was declared back in September really doesn't mean a lot. And if the worst-case scenario from the Ukrainians government does prove to be true, then the fighting, the violence is going to get a lot worse in the near term -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, it also seems, Phil, that the evidence on the ground, the renewed fighting, these weapons coming across seem to prove that the U.S. and the European policy response to this is not working. It is not deterring Russian action. On the ground there from Ukrainians you speak to, both officials and members of the public, are they disappointed with the support that they've gotten from the west in response to Russia's actions?

BLACK: I think they're grateful for what they have got so far, but certainly they want more than they have received as well. There is no doubt that so far the actions from the west, the sanctions, the political pressure, it has not achieved its goal of changing Russia's behavior, as you say, in the event that these reinforcements are pouring over, as is widely believed, Russia is continuing to behave in an aggressive way.

Ukraine is grateful to the pressure that has been placed upon Russia. It wants tougher sanctions. It wants more practical support. And certainly there is a desire within the Ukrainian government for very practical military support in the form of legal aid. That has not come. The west - some western governments are providing nonlethal aid to the Ukrainian military. They're helping them get organized. They're helping to build their resilience in the hope that if, in the long term, they become a more effective fighting force, that will act as a greater deterrent to Russian aggression. But in the short term, especially if they - if Russia is indeed preparing and the separatists are preparing for some sort of new, offensive operation, that sort of long-term planning and support isn't likely to make much of a difference on the ground in the coming days, Jim.

SCIUTTO: No. We're witnessing a war in Europe, just a reminder, and you see that every day. Thanks very much to Phil Black, live from eastern Ukraine.

Coming up next here, nuclear uncertainty. We're going to tell you what serious problems were uncovered in a review of the U.S. nuclear weapons program.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Serious deficiencies, alarming ones, in the United States nuclear program. That's what we heard from the Pentagon today. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, earlier, ordered extensive reviews of nuclear arms management and nuclear facilities. Here's what he says was found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The reviews found evidence of systematic problems that, if not addressed, could undermine the safety, security and effectiveness of the elements of a force in the future. These problems include manning, infrastructure and skill deficiencies. We must change the cultural perception of the nuclear enterprise, which has particularly suffered in the Air Force.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: One story circulated about a special wrench used to attach nuclear warheads. Apparently there was only one of them for three nuclear bases to share. The naval confirmed that and explained the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAGEL: They did it by Federal Expressing the one wrench around to each base. They were creative and innovative and they made it work. But that's not the way to do it. We now have a wrench for each location. We're going to have two wrenches for each location soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SCIUTTO: Incredible, FedExing a nuclear wrench. Secretary Hagel says he'll ask for several billion dollars over the next few years to upgrade management, oversight, security, as well as morale at nuclear facilities across the country.

Joining me now from Capitol Hill is California Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, member of the House Intelligence Committee, as well as the appropriations committee.

So, Representative Schiff, you hear these stories, one wrench to share between three bases, but also more systematic problems we've heard about over recent months, morale, just bad oversight, bad behavior in some of these very sensitive installations. How alarmed are you by the problem and do you believe that the Defense Department now has a handle on how to correct these problems?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: I'm very concerned about it and not the least in part because this is not a new problem. This was something that came to light, I think, when Secretary Gates was defense secretary and he fired a couple of people and we thought that some of the cultural and training problems had been fixed, or at least we had made progress. But it appears, in this latest report, that we haven't made much progress and I think a big part of the challenge is that this is not where probably the best officers gravitate to. It's not the sort of viewed as the best path for advancement within the military. And that, I think, has led to a lack of focus on the necessary resources, the necessary training, the necessary corrective action. And I hope that this new analysis will prompt vigorous action. It certainly will rekindle oversight efforts here in the Congress.

SCIUTTO: Yes, I mean it's incredible to think we have thousands of these things and they've just become so removed from the American consciousness. I want to turn, if I can now, to Russia and the Ukraine. As you're aware, NATO says Russian troops and tanks and forces have moved across the border. I just wonder, we have this happening yet again. You know, the administration talks about raising costs on Russia to prevent this kind of behavior, but clearly that policy is not working. I mean would you say that the administration's response to Russia's military action in the Ukraine has proven to be a failure?

SCHIFF: Well, I don't know that I would use failure, I think that's too strong a term, but it certainly hasn't had the impact that we want it to have. It has affected the Russian economy. It has damaged the Russian economy. That's something we wanted, but it hasn't gone that extra step in actually changing Russia's policy very much, which is why I hope that we can work with our European partners to strengthen the sanctions, not simply as I think they're intending to merely add new names to the list of those individual sanctions, but broaden the scope of those sanctions.

I'd also like to see the United States and our European partners start to provide military assistance to Ukraine, anti-tank munitions, for example. We haven't done that, I think, out of an abundance of caution, not wanting to provoke the Russians into more aggressive action. But the reality is, the Russians are taking those actions anyway. And while the Ukraine military will never be a match for the Russian military, we can increase the cost to Russia's action and operations within Ukraine by providing greater material support to Ukraine. So I think both those steps are going to be necessary.

SCIUTTO: Well, you have to wonder if there should be a policy review at this point. We're talking about a Syria policy review. An if as part of that review, why don't they have those sanctions teed up and ready to go for each Russian escalation step that you have, rather than kind of letting it happen and then trying to tee up something after the fact?

SCHIFF: Well that, I think, would be ideal and that's certainly something we should be doing. My sense is that, you know, with this cease-fire agreement, which is really a non-agreement, there was hope that we were on a different pathway. I think Europe, which has never been enthusiastic about the sanctions, was hoping that we would move in a direction of easing sanctions rather than adding new sanctions. But what's taking place now is General Breedlove has indicated there's very much movement in the opposite direction. The Russians, once again, acting with belligerent, invading the territory of Ukraine, bolstering the rebel forces, looking to seize more ground. All that, I think, is going to reawaken Europe to the need, not just to keep the sanctions we have and not just to add new individuals, but to broaden the base of those sanctions themselves.

SCIUTTO: You're aware of the talk now of a review of Syria policy and the idea of adding Assad, the governor, Bashar al Assad, in effect to the target list, so you're not just looking to get rid of ISIS, but also Assad. Is that something that the U.S. has the capability and commitment to do? I mean it's already taken on a lot with ISIS, a war that we've been told will take years to accomplish that goal. How do you - how do you consider doing both things? You know, it seems like a very tall order.

SCHIFF: Well, it is a very tall order and I think part of what make it a tall order is that if we expand the scope of not just going after ISIS in Syria, but we go after the regime itself, it changes the nature of the environment in terms of Iran. Does Iran then become much more hostile to us in Iraq? Does it let lose its militias to try to bomb us with IEDs in Iraq, as those militias did in the past? So there are a lot of repercussions from it. At the same time we're seeing the real tensions and problems with the current policy when we have been undertaking these bombings of the Khorasan group and that has alienated some of these so-called moderate forces that are wondering why we are going after al Nusra, the al Qaeda franchise, that is so effective in fighting the regime.

So there are real problems with the current strategy of only going after ISIS and I think that ought to get us at least to review whether we need to broaden public efforts to go after the regime. I do think one of the more promising things that we're doing is Secretary Kerry's efforts to find some consensus in the region with our Gulf allies, with our Iranian adversaries, to phase out, transition out Bashar al Assad because I think that's key to ending the civil war and ultimately ending the space that ISIS has to operate in. SCIUTTO: It's incredible to think we're, in effect, on the same side

as Iran in Iraq against ISIS and then on opposite sides in Syria with regard to the government of Bashar al Assad.

Thanks very much, Representative Adam Schiff, on Capitol Hill.

SCHIFF: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, a startling list of mistakes committed by the agency in charge of protecting the president of the United States. A report on the Secret Service's response to a major White House security breach and the fallout, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)