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Protests Nationwide; Two Justice Systems in U.S.; Holder Trip Focuses on Police Relations; Chokehold Decision Sets Off Protests; Justice Department Investigating Garner's Death; Bernice King on Race Relations in the U.S.; Eric Holder Speech
Aired December 04, 2014 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CROWD: -- ho, ho, these killer cops have got to go. Hey, hey, ho, ho, these killer cops have got to go.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Protests nationwide after a grand jury did not indict a white New York City police officer in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man. Chokeholds are not a permitted tactic for New York City police officers.
This hour, the city's mayor and the city's police commissioner, they're meeting to discuss retraining the city's police force. They're going to have a news conference this hour. You'll see it and hear it live right here.
Also right now, are there two justice systems in the United States? One for whites, one for African-Americans? Some top minds are here to discuss all of this, including Bernice King. She's the daughter of the civil rights leader, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem, 9:00 p.m. in Moscow. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.
Up first, the fallout over another grand jury decision in the death of an unarmed black man, at the hands of a white police officer. A judge is expected to rule today on whether to release portions of the evidence presented to the grand jury in Staten Island, New York.
The decision not to indict the officer in the chokehold death of Eric Garner set off protests in New York and elsewhere around the country. It has added to the debate over race relations in the United States. The president of the National Urban League today announced a march for jobs and justice next week right here in Washington. Marc Morial saying recent events should shock the nation's conscience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Yesterday's decision by the Staten Island grand jury defied common sense. One can engage in lots of discussions about the law and discretion and standards, but the plain eyes of the world got an opportunity to see that interaction. And now a man, a father of six, is dead.
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BLITZER: The attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, says the Justice Department is investigating the circumstances of Eric Garner's death.
Today, Holder visits Cleveland, Ohio. It's part of his focus on trying to improve relations between the law enforcement and the African-American communities across the country.
Also, New York City police are in the process of retraining officers of the use of force. The department prohibits the chokehold used by Officer Daniel Pantaleo. The officer faces an internal police investigation where, once again, the grand jury did not indict him.
No violence, no vandalism. The New York police commissioner says protests over the grand jury decision have been mostly peaceful.
Our National Correspondent Jason Carroll is joining us now from Times Square. Jason, give us a sense of how the demonstrations unfolded across New York City.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, those protesters marched throughout the city, including right here in Times Square. And New York City's mayor is sharing some of the same feelings as some of the demonstrators. This morning, Wolf, he spoke a local radio station telling the D.J. there that Eric Garner did not have to die.
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CROWD: I can't breathe. I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
CARROLL (voice-over): Protesters pouring into the streets of New York last night after a grand jury did not indict New York City police officer, Daniel Pantaleo, in the chokehold death of 43-year-old Eric Garner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a very painful day for so many New Yorkers.
CARROLL: Arrests made throughout the night as outrage pulsed throughout the city streets for more than nine hours. Most chanting Garner's last words before dying on this Staten Island street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't breathe. I can't breathe.
CROWD: I can't breathe.
CARROLL: Police, some in riot gear, blocking intersections, as protesters began shutting down the city's most iconic landmarks. CROWD: (INAUDIBLE.)
CARROLL: Stopping the flow of traffic into and out of the island of Manhattan for hours. Some lying down right in the middle of the road. In the same inside grand central station.
CROWD: I can't breathe.
CARROLL: Where other protesters staged a massive die-in as evening rush hour hit its peak. Police heavily guarding the Rockefeller tree lighting ceremony.
CROWD: Three, two, one.
CARROLL: As protesters tried to disrupt the show. The city's public outcry reaching a fever pitch nationwide.
CROWD: Ho, ho, these killer cops have got to go.
CARROLL: From Los Angeles --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Eric Garner.
CROWD: I am Eric Garner.
CARROLL: -- to Philadelphia.
CARROLL: -- to Philadelphia, --
CROWD: (INAUDIBLE.)
CARROLL: -- where protesters took to city hall during their tree lighting ceremony holding up signs reading, black lives matter. The demonstrations across the country disruptive, but peaceful, fulfilling garner's family wish.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we want you to rally but rally in peace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No violence, that's all I ask.
CARROLL: Officer Pantaleo said in a statement, it is never my intention to harm anyone, and I feel very bad about the death of Mr. Garner. But Garner's wife says it's too late.
ESAW GARNER: Hell no. The time for remorse would have been when my husband was yelling to breathe. That would have been the time for him to show some type of remorse or some type of care for another human being's life.
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CARROLL (on camera) (live): New York City's mayor as well as the police commissioner met today to talk about this idea of retraining the city's police force.
Also, Wolf, the NYPD is moving forward with its internal investigation it into this incident, ultimately it will be the police commissioner who will decide what, if any, punishment this officer will face -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And we're standing by -- later this hour, we're going to be hearing from the mayor of New York, the police commissioner of New York. Despite the no indictment by the grand jury, Jason, they concede that changes need to be made within the police department --
CARROLL: Yes.
BLITZER: -- in New York, right?
CARROLL: Yes, absolutely. And in terms of retraining the officers and in terms of how they deal with physical situations. So, that is one of the things that they're going to be talking about. Also, just readdressing the idea of dealing with excessive force and the policies on how they use force. So, there is this acknowledgement that some retraining needs to be done but that doesn't mean that the police commissioner is not still standing by his officers.
BLITZER: Once we see Mayor Bill De Blasio and the police commissioner, Bill Bratton, we'll have live coverage later this hour of their remarks. They're taking questions from reporters as well. Jason, thank you.
Eric Garner's mother says she's pleased that the protests have been peaceful. She says she's hopeful the Justice Department's investigation into her son's death will be productive.
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GWEN CARR: I'm very optimistic. At least we'll get fair and just decision this time because that grand jury's decision, outrageous.
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BLITZER: As for the use of body cameras by police, Garner's mother says she doubts that will make much of a difference.
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GWEN GARNER: They had a live -- I mean, they had a video that represents a body camera. It did nothing. Try something else.
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BLITZER: Eric Garner's father is also pinning his hopes on the federal Justice Department investigation. Our own Joe Johns caught up with him last night after the Staten Island grand jury's decision was released.
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JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What went through your mind when you heard about what the -- what the grand jury decided? BEN GARNER: Well, I was hurt by it. I was hurt by it. Still,
(INAUDIBLE) no reason for nobody to get locked up out here go through the same (INAUDIBLE) we're going through all the time.
JOHNS: Well, what do you think happens next? Have you talked to the lawyers a little bit about, you know, where --
BEN GARNER: Well, the fed is going to take over.
JOHNS: And you're hopeful that the federal government --
BEN GARNER: Well, we're sure they'll give us the right decision.
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BLITZER: President Obama says there needs to be more trust, more accountability when it comes to dealing between communities and law enforcement. We heard more from the president just a little while ago talking about the fallout from what's going on in New York as well as Ferguson, Missouri. Listen to this.
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BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When it comes, as we've seen, unfortunately, in recent days, to our criminal justice system, too many Americans feel deep unfairness when it comes to the gap between our professed ideals and how laws are applied on a day-to-day basis. Beyond the specific issue that has to be addressed, making sure that people have confidence, that police and law enforcement and prosecutors are serving everybody, equally, there's the larger question then of restoring a sense of common purpose.
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BLITZER: The attorney general, Eric Holder, also addressed the case. The Department of Justice is launching a federal investigation into the killing of Eric Garner, looking into whether Garner's civil rights were violated. He also spoke about the larger issues.
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ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Mr. Garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great country that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect. This is not a New York issue nor a Ferguson issue alone.
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BLITZER: He says it's not necessarily just the problem in those communities, it's a problem from coast to coast. After the grand jury decision in the Michael Brown case, we saw protests across the country, similar protests to what we saw last night after the decision on Eric Garner's death.
Joining us now is Dr. Bernice King, the daughter of the civil rights icon, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Thanks very much for joining us. If your father had --
DR. BERNICE KING, CEO, THE KING CENTER: Thank you.
BLITZER: -- been alive today and we all wish he would have been alive today, what would he have -- how would he have reacted to what's going on?
KING: Well, we have to remember, my father talked about, shortly before his death, the need for reordering priorities in America, a radical reordering of priorities, and that if we did not do that, we would see some of the results we're seeing today.
And so, I think the first thing is, he would -- he would still call for a radical reordering of priorities and value systems in our nation. He would feel, obviously, that what happened in this instance was just morally reprehensible. It's incomprehensible there was no indictment in this case at all. And we have to do something to radically change policing in this nation. And it's going to have to happen, unfortunately, I believe, from the federal level. We can't -- we can't merely just do this state by state. There are too many states.
Definitely police officers need training but we need to add some other provisions in the civil rights act to protect citizens in these kinds of instances because police can't police themselves and prosecutors have a very difficult time prosecuting police officers who have -- who they, later, have to work with in prosecuting other individuals. So, we have to find another way so that we can have special prosecutors in these kinds of instances.
But even after that happens, you know, our work at the King Center is devoted to transforming people's hearts and their lives and understanding the interconnectedness of life, and that, really, there's only one race, the human race. We have different hues, different experiences but we have to realize that we are a part of a human family and we have to see each other and treat each other as such.
BLITZER: There are some who are now saying the country is really divided into two systems, one system for African-Americans, a justice system, a legal system, another for whites. Are you -- are you among those who think the country is divided into those two separate, unequal categories?
KING: I do. I do believe that the system is separate and unequal. Invariably, African-Americans oftentimes are sentenced at a higher rate. They are, obviously, charged at a higher rate. Arrested at a higher rate than others for similar crimes. You know, and so, we have to -- it's not even -- I don't call it a system failure. We have to do a whole re-set of our justice system in America and start from scratch, because it's not working for all people.
BLITZER: And there are others who go a step further and say there's a different justice system for civilians as opposed for law enforcement. Do you agree with that? KING: Well, I would certainly say it appears that there's immunity
for police officers, that -- no impunity. They can do whatever they want, according to their own personal discretion, and take lives. And so, if they're hiding behind the cloak of any kind of bias, they can use that in making the decisions and judgments that they make and that's really unfortunate.
And so, again, you know, we need a serious rehaul of our justice system and finding a way that there's a separate system to deal with police officers when there is excessive force involved. I mean, I -- I mean, I was just totally troubled and deeply disturbed, you know, that this happened. When we had the equivalent of body cameras, the video, it's on tape, and just the humanity of this gentleman who says, I can't breathe, just releasing that chokehold, probably would have ended up with a different result.
BLITZER: And, very quickly, Dr. King, is there a simple way, something we can do to fix this problem?
KING: Well, I mean, it's -- I don't think it's simple. I do think, though, we have to do it like a bite at the apple at a time. I think it's important that all of us, in every industry, every arena, that we begin to do self-introspection and looking at our own biases and we have to make this a priority in America. It can't happen just when we haves these incidents. We have to, on a daily basis, in our institutions and our corporations, in our arenas, in our faith-based institutions, we have to daily deal with the race relations issues that we have and be committed to changing attitudes and practices that still exist in our institutional structures.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Dr. Bernice King, the daughter of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the CEO of the King Center in Atlanta, thanks very much for joining us.
KING: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, we've got some live pictures. I want to show you what's going on in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, right now. This is called a dead-in. Not a sit-in. A dead-in. Folks on the ground there in Pittsburgh protesting the decision in Staten Island, New York, not to indict Daniel Pantaleo, the police officer in the killing of Eric Garner. Similar protests occurring around the United States.
Up next, why so many people are questioning the fairness of the U.S. justice system. We just heard from Dr. Bernice King. Are the courts and the nation's police departments truly color-blind? The growing debate here in the United States when we return.
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BLITZER: The attorney general, Eric Holder, is in Cleveland now. He's about to make a major announcement on police practices in Cleveland, which he says have been excessive. Let's listen in.
ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: As well as, obviously, our great U.S. attorney, Steve Dettelbach, the mayor, and the chief, it's good to have you all here as well.
In repeat days, millions of people throughout our nation have come together, bound by grief and bound by anguish in response to the tragic deaths of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, and Eric Garner in New York City. Now, as I announced last night, the United States Department of Justice is currently conducting an independent, thorough, fair and expeditious federal civil rights investigation into each of these incidents. And as President Obama and I have indicated, the time has come we think to do even more.
The tragic losses of these and far too many other Americans, including just last month, the shooting death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice here in Cleveland, have really raised urgent national questions. And they have sparked an important conversation about the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities that they serve and protect.
Now, earlier this week, I traveled to Atlanta to begin a series of interactions with law enforcement, civic, community and faith leaders aimed at restoring trust, rebuilding, understanding and fostering renewed cooperation between law enforcement and community members. Today, we convene the second in that series of vital discussions with leaders here in Cleveland, with the intention of building a constructive and inclusive national conversation. And we kick off this conversation, I believe, with an important announcement regarding a significant step forward in our effort to ensure the highest standards of policing and to foster broad outreach and engagement between police officials and Cleveland residents.
After a thorough and independent review, the Department of Justices has completed its civil pattern of practice investigation into the Cleveland Division of Police. Now that investigation spanned more than a year and a half and it was launched in response to a series of troubling, high-profile use of force incidents, as well as by numerous public calls for a federal investigation by civic leaders, Congresswoman Marsha Fudge (ph), and by Mayor Jackson. Since March of 2013, the Justice Department has closely examined nearly 600 use of force incidents that occurred between 2010 and 2013, including the incidents involving the use of lethal and less than lethal force. We have determined that there is reasonable cause to believe that the Cleveland Division of Public Police engages in a pattern and practice of using excessive force and as a result of systemic deficiencies, including insufficient accountability, inadequate training and equipment, ineffective policies and inadequate engagement in the community. Fortunately, today I can announce that the Department of Justice and the city of Cleveland have come together, have come together to set in motion a process that will remedy these issues in a comprehensive and in a court enforceable manner.
Under Mayor Jackson's leadership, the city has acknowledged that the department's findings raise issues of importance to people really throughout this community. And together we have agreed to a statement of principles that will lead to a court enforceable consent decree, including an independent monitor who will oversee the implementation of sustainable reforms, assess compliance based on objective measures, and ensure that robust new policies and practices will result in more effective and constitutional policing.
Now, we recognize, of course, that this process will be both difficult and it will be complex. It will demand engagement and input from the brave law enforcement officers who serve on the front lines, Cleveland residents, civic leaders and other community stakeholders. It will require sustained and collaborative effort toward clear, concrete objectives to build trust, to close gaps, and to forge stronger relationships.
Now, we understand that the progress we seek will not come overnight. But I am confident that the city of Cleveland and the United States Department of Justice will move forward together as committed partners. And this joint statement of principle and the eventual consent decree provide what I believe is a solid foundation for meaningful steps forward so that we can enable all of the residents of Cleveland to have full confidence in the courageous public servants who work every day, every day, to keep them safe and so that we can empower these dedicated women and men in blue to address persistent challenges, to obtain the training and other resources that they need in order to do these jobs safely and effectively, and ultimately to become the outstanding world-class police force that this great city deserves.
Now, this process continues today with this important announcement, and with the round table discussion that I will convene this afternoon. All of the leaders here who will be a part of that conversation understand that accountability and legitimacy are essential for communities to trust their police departments and for there to be genuine collaboration between policed and the citizens that they serve. As the brother of a retired police officer, I know in a very personal way how brave these public servants are. It is for their sake as well that we must seek to heal the breakdowns we have seen. And although these issues are, as I said, complex, and the problems long standing, we have seen in city after city where we have engaged that meaningful change is possible. Meaningful, positive change is possible. There are real, practical and concrete measures that can be taken to ensure not only that police services are delivered in a constitutional manner, but that we can promote public safety, officer safety, confidence, and collaboration, transparency, and legitimacy.
Now, as you know, earlier this week, President Obama announced a series of constructive steps to help bolster the trust in and the effectiveness of the policing of our communities. These include convening a new task force to develop ways to reduce crime while building community trust, reforming how the federal government equips local law enforcement, particularly with regard to military-style equipment, and advancing the use of body worn cameras and promoting community policing initiatives. Now, these are, to my mind, exactly the kinds of pragmatic and inclusive actions that will bring the right people together to engage in constructive, national conversation. And they will complement the reinvigorated police reform work that the Justice Department's cops office, civil rights division, and United States attorney's offices throughout the nation have been leading.
Over the last five fiscal years, our civil rights division has opened more than 20 investigations in police departments across the country. More than twice as many as were opened in the previous five fiscal years. We are currently enforcing no fewer than 15 agreements with law enforcement agencies, including eight consent decrees to correct unconstitutional police practices. And we have seen, many times over, that this model can work. Reform is underway in New Orleans, Seattle, Albuquerque, Portland, Oregon, East Haven, Connecticut, Puerto Rico and Warren, Ohio. We are committed to moving together - we are committed to moving forward together, here in Cleveland and throughout the nation, to spur renewed engagement, renewed trust and renewed momentum to really translate coordinated action into meaningful results.
Now, we have a great deal of work to do, but this announcement, I think, marks an important first step. I want to thank everyone who worked really so hard to make this announcement possible, including the dedicated men and women of the civil rights division special litigation section, our great U.S. attorney, Steve Dettelbach, and the men and women of his office. The office of -
BLITZER: All right, so there you have the attorney general of the United States, Eric Holder, he's in Cleveland, Ohio, announcing a study which, unfortunately for Cleveland, points to what is described in this Justice Department study as a pattern or practice of unreasonable and unnecessary use of force by the Cleveland Division of Police.
You also heard him speaking out about the grand jury decision in Staten Island, New York, not to indict the white police officer in the choking death of Eric Garner, as well as what's going on in Ferguson.
We're going to have a full discussion on what's going on, but there's some other breaking news I want to report right now.
The White House, just moments ago, announced the president of the United States will announce tomorrow he is nominating the new secretary of defense. They didn't say who it's going to be, but everyone knows it's going to be this man right here, you're seeing his picture on the screen, Ash Carter. He's the former deputy secretary of defense. He's a physicist. He worked in the Defense Department during the Obama administration. Tomorrow morning, at the White House, a formal ceremony announcing this defense secretary nominee to replace Chuck Hagel, who announced his resignation a few days ago. Chuck Hagel under pressure to give up that position. Ash Carter, if confirmed by the United States Senate, and he is expected to be confirmed, if confirmed, he will be the fourth defense secretary in the Obama administration and that's what we're going to be watching for tomorrow.
