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Wolf

Police Storm Sydney Cafe Ending Siege; At Least One Hostage Killed in Siege

Aired December 15, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 10:00 a.m. here in Los Angeles, 6:00 p.m. in London, 9:30 p.m. in Tehran and 5:00 a.m. Tuesday morning in Sydney. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We begin with the dramatic and deadly ending to a hostage standoff in Australia. Police in Sydney stormed the cafe where a gunman had been holding employees and customers hostage for almost 17 hours. When the siege was over, two people were dead including the hostage-taker. Three others were wounded. They're in serious condition. Five hostages managed to escape hours after the standoff began. Some of the remaining captives held up a black flag with Arabic writing saying, there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger. Others pressed their hands against the window.

A local official with knowledge of the situation identified the gunman as Man Horan Monis. He's described as a self-styled Muslim cleric. Last year, he pled guilty to writing offensive letters to the families of Australian service members who were killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also faces charges of sexual assault and being an accessory in the murder of his ex-wife.

The hostage standoff in Sydney's central business district was certainly shocking and unprecedented. Our CNN Correspondent Anna Coren is a native Australian. She's been on the scene for much of the standoff doing amazing work for all of us. Anna, give us the latest. What do we know about the raid? How was it carried out?

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, just before 2:00 a.m. this morning, police decided to take -- descend on the cafe. They stormed the cafe despite the fact that many of the media thought they were perhaps going to wait it out after what we had been hearing throughout the day that they were prepared to wait for hours to ensure that this resolved peacefully. But around 2:00 p.m., 2:00 a.m. I should say, that is exactly what they did. They stormed this cafe. Police as well as Special Forces' operatives entering this cafe from different entrances. And we heard gunfire. There were stun grenades that were launched.

And we now understand two people were killed, including the gunman. And you mentioned his name, Man Homan Monis, an Iranian refugee and also and also a self-proclaimed cleric. So, certainly a dramatic end to what has been a very disturbing day here in Sydney. Obviously, there was much speculation he was associated with ISIS, calling for an ISIS flag, calling for a conversation with the Australian prime minister, Tony Blair. His demands made through his hostages.

But this all ending in the wee hours of this morning. We understand a number of people were injured and have been taken to hospital. Up to seven of those hostages taken out by stretcher. But, certainly, police are now saying the siege is definitely over -- Wolf.

BLITZER: You misspoke, it's Tony Abbott, the Australian Prime Minister. But we're expecting, momentarily I take it, some sort of police news conference to provide us more details. We'll, of course, have live coverage of that, Anna, here on CNN for our viewers in the United States and around the world.

Briefly, tell us a little bit about this area. This is really the central part of the business area of Sydney, right?

COREN: Yes, absolutely. It is the heart of the CBD here in Sydney. The cafe that has been the scene of this siege is about a block in that direction. And it's very close to the U.S. consulate. It's close to the headquarters of the four major banks, the Reserve Bank of Australia. It's opposite a major T.V. network. So, you would have to assume that this armed gunman who was carrying a backpack making claims that he had planted two bombs inside the cafe had thought this through in so far as choosing that target to get maximum coverage.

As for his motivations, they're still unclear. He made these bazaar demands about wanting an ISIS flag and wanting a conversation with the prime minister. But other than that, he hadn't really thought it through. And I think what we are certainly hearing from hostage negotiators, experts in the industry was that the fact there had been no casualties, no deaths was certainly a positive sign that the police negotiators were getting through to him.

But there were hundreds of police on the scene. They had swarmed the area ever since he took over that coffee at 10:00 yesterday morning. There were sniper police in position. And there was also the bomb squad. There was also a real fear that not only did he plant bombs at the cafe but also around Sydney.

The Sydney opera house, a famous landmark here in Sydney which is at the very end of this road behind me, there was a bomb scare down there when a suspicious parcel had been located. But that turned out to be a false lead as did the other claims of bombs scattered around the city. The focus was on Martin Place, the center of this CBD here in the city. The police cordoned it off. It was on lockdown for hours. We had, initially, a visual of the cafe. We were within 100 meters of the cafe. Police quickly moved us. There were serious concerns that the gunman could open up fire, that there could be bombs, explosives.

But, thankfully, wolf, that did not eventuate. We heard from police authorities saying that they wanted to, you know, get through to the gunman, negotiate, end this peacefully. But, obviously, they reached the end of it tither at 2:00 a.m. and decided to storm the building.

BLITZER: Anna Coren on the scene for us. Anna, we'll check back with you. Once again, we're standing by for that news conference, the Australian police getting ready to brief the news media on what precisely happened, where it stands right now. Live coverage coming up this hour.

The gunman, in this case, was certainly well known to Australian law enforcement authorities because of his previous run-ins with the law. Our Atika Shubert is joining us now from London. Atika, what can you tell us about this gunman, Man Horan Monis? I believe that's how you pronounce his name.

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, he did have a number of run-ins in the law but it has to be said, nothing violent. He sent several -- a string of harassing letters to the families of Australian soldiers killed in Afghanistan and he pled guilty to that charge and was sentenced to 300 hours of community service. That was in 2013. But he was also facing a charge of accessory to the murder of his former wife. And on top of that, most recently, he was also charged with several sexual assault charges dating back to 2002.

So, he did have a number of these outstanding charges that he was dealing with. But even though he was very politically active, you see him on the streets, for example, draped in chains. He even chained himself to the court, for example, claiming that he had been tortured in prison, something that the police -- Australian police won't address. They won't comment on that. So, he was a fixture on that sort of protest circuit. But he never seemed to be taking any violent action. In fact, several times, he told the press his weapons were pen and paper.

So, what police are now looking at is what exactly triggered this violent act? What led up to this? Because so far, he described himself as a Muslim cleric and a man of peace. Why, then, did he decide to take this violent action?

BLITZER: I had heard, Atika, that he was Iranian-Shiite, but what became Sunni and, as a result, he was more aligned with ISIS as opposed to Iran. Is that what's -- is that what's going on with this individual?

SHUBERT: You know, I think what's clear is that he was very much an individual. In fact, on his social media Web site, he says he's not a part of any one organization or party. And he says, at one point, that he has become Muslim. And we take that to mean that he converted from being a Shia Muslim to becoming a Sunni Muslim. And in one of those social media postings, he also pledges allegiance to ISIS.

But I think it's important to note, there is no indication of a direct communication between ISIS leaders or anybody in ISIS in Syria and Iraq directly communicating with Monis. So, this is somebody who seems very much to be in his own world. It wasn't really part of any larger Muslim community. Nobody is -- even though he calls himself Sheik Horan (ph) and posted lectures on Islamic law, it doesn't seem like he had a lot of followers that were really actually following any of these lectures that he put out. So, whatever it was that was going on in his life, he seems to have taken this action on his own initiative. It doesn't appear, at this point, to be linked to ISIS or any other group.

BLITZER: All right, we're going to learn a lot more about this guy in the coming hours. And, once again, we're standing by for this news conference. Sydney police spokesman, they're getting ready to brief the news media, live coverage coming up this hour. Atika, thanks very much.

We're going to have experts standing by, more of the breaking news coming up. The siege, 17 hours. It's now over but we're only just beginning to learn what happened.

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BLITZER: The 16-hour plus standoff ended with flash grenades and gunfire. The end came just a short time after -- around a half a -- after about a half a dozen hostages escaped. So, let's talk a little bit more about what happened, how it ended, the lone wolf attack as it's now being described.

Joining us, Wallace Zeins a former New York City police hostage negotiator. CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank and Robert McFadden, a former NCIS, a national -- a Special Agent and Deputy Assistant Director of Counterintelligence Operations for the United States. Guys, thanks very much for joining us. Wallace, talk a little bit about how this ended, 16 hours plus into these negotiations that were underway. And all of a sudden, it ended in bloodshed and violence. The escapes -- the escapees managed o to get out, but several of them were shot. One of them is now believed to be dead. What's your analysis?

WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER POLICE HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR, NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, during the course of that negotiation, the hostage negotiator probably had a conversation going on with him. And during the course of that conversation, the important thing is to have a rapport with the hostage taker. And the interesting part about it, there must have been something said to the hostage negotiator that made the -- in the perimeter personnel, that is the SWAT team and the commanding officer, say, we got to turn around and go in there right away. And the feeling is that something took place.

Now keep in mind, we call this the theater of terror when you're dealing with a terrorist because their goal is money, manpower and media. Basically, it's the theater of terror. He's the star. The hostages are the co-star and the police. The media produces it and the public watches it. And that's his main goal, this hostage-taker. And the bottom line to it is that there was something that took place that made them have to go in.

BLITZER: And Robert, he did have a shotgun so obviously he was considered very dangerous in a situation like this. But he did have a long history. Apparently, Australian law enforcement knew all about this it guy. I don't know if that -- if that was much of a factor in trying to play this thing out to get some sort of peaceful resolution.

ROBERT MCFADDEN, FORMER NCIS COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: Well, absolutely, that would have been a part of it. It was just pointed out in the lead in, he didn't have any violence in his past related to terrorism. However, he did have a number of charges he was facing for violent acts. So, writ large, although there's still a lot of information we're waiting for. It points out the extraordinary challenge law enforcement and security intelligence services have to tracking individuals that might have an ideation towards violence related to politics or, in this case, political Islam.

BLITZER: I assume they're going through his social media, Paul, to go through and see if he had FaceBook or whatever, to try to get a better sense of what may have motivated him. It sounds like he could have been some sort of lone wolf inspired, if you will, by ISIS, but not necessarily instructed by ISIS to go out there specifically with an operation.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, that's absolutely right, Wolf. And we've also been going through his social media through the morning. He does seem to be somebody who was inspired by ISIS, who was following ISIS very, very closely on social media. A big fan of them. Somebody who was very angry at Australian airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq. Australia has flown over 140 combat sorties there. This appears to be retaliation for Australia's involvement in the anti-ISIS coalition, for going after ISIS, Wolf.

BLITZER: Is it your sense, Wallace, and you've been involved in these kinds of negotiations, the longer it goes, 16 hours, at some point the hostage-taker is going to get tired, is going to get hungry, and may become, what, more desperate or the opposite, may simply give up? What usually happens in a situation like this?

WALLACE ZEINS, FORMER NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: In a situation like this, we believe that the longer it takes, the better chances you have of the successful negotiation. Why? Because then, as you just said, Wolf, he may get hungry and he may want food. And keep in mind, when they want something, everything is a negotiation. Whether it's a match to light a cigarette, whether it's a sandwich, it's all negotiating. And that's the bottom line. You get trust. You have to have that conversation of trust between you and the hostage-taker. And, yes, the longer it takes, the better it is for a successful outcome.

Now, keep in mind also, there's a lot of intelligence involved in this operation today. You know, not just Australia, you have New Zealand, Canada, the United States and Great Britain who are all working together in this particular -- there's a compact that they have where they exchange information. This investigation is just beginning. They're going to hit his house with search warrants. They're going to take everything apart from his house to his vehicle and to the people he might be known to.

BLITZER: As you know, Robert, back in early September, Australia really went on a higher state of alert. They were afraid that ISIS was planning some sort of terror operation in Australia. They started rounding up individuals. But the real fear was what may have happened in this particular case, some sort of individual inspired, a lone wolf, may have been well known to local law enforcement, but not necessarily seen as a terror threat, but all of a sudden that individual, who wasn't conceived as being very, very dangerous, becomes incredibly dangerous, right?

MCFADDEN: Yes, which, if anything, that just goes to show that that type of situation, this scenario, is what we know right now is among the most difficult to be able to solve and prevent.

Now, I've worked in the past extensively with the state police agencies in Australia, as well as the Australian federal police and they are absolutely topnotch. In fact, I've participated in a country- wide counterterrorism exercise a few years ago, so I know the caliber of work they do and how they carry out their operations tactically. They're superb.

But ISIS taking a page out of al Qaeda's playbook, where it's encouraging individuals to do these kinds of acts, you may have someone who hasn't taken constructive steps toward something like this, an event like this, taking hostages, but has so many swirling issues going on in his life that may essentially tip the scale. There may also be other things involved, such as mental pathology, that come into play.

We don't know this yet, but making a little bit of a leap, you can almost be guaranteed, if it is a singleton, a lone wolf, that it's going to follow a certain script. For one, probably not really much planning, cursory planning. He needed the ISIS flag, for example, and almost always no exit plan from a situation like this.

BLITZER: And, Paul, as you know, ISIS did say they wanted to inspire people in Australia to go after law enforcement, military personnel, others and do attacks within Australia, right?

CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right. As we know, Abu Mohammed al Adnani, the spokesman of ISIS, back in September called for lone wolf attacks throughout the west, including Australia. And that's had a deep impact on ISIS followers around the world. We've seen a string of plots and attacks in North America, also plots in the U.K. All these people were devouring this fatwa, that it was their religious obligation to launch these kind of attacks. And I think it's going to be significant concern in the days ahead that there could be some sort of copycat attack by somebody somewhere in the west, perhaps even the United States, inspired by what they've seen in Australia. You remember back in October with that hatchet attack in New York where an attacker went after the NYPD. He had been inspired by what he saw two days previously in Canada with that attack on the Canadian parliament. So a significant concern as we move forward on copycat attacks, Wolf.

BLITZER: We're waiting for a news conference in Sydney. Police are getting ready to brief the news media. We'll have live coverage. I want all of you to stand by. We're going to be following what's going on. Much more of the breaking news. A lot of concern right now about these so-called lone wolf attacks. We're taking a closer look at how the Australian government is dealing with this threat and the ramifications for other countries around the world, whether in Europe, North America or elsewhere.

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BLITZER: During the standoff in Sydney, Australia, we saw hostages hold a flag in the window of the Lindt chocolate cafe. It was a black and white flag displaying the shihada (ph). That's a testament to the faith of Muslims, one of the pillars of Islam. The flag has been popular among Sunni Islamist militant groups, such as Islamic State and al Qaeda. And that prompted fears that the situation was connected to some Islamic extremist groups.

We're now joined by Emma Dallimore. She's a reporter from Australia's Seven Network.

Emma, thanks very much for joining us.

It looks like Australian officials, they knew a lot about this guy going way back. He had a lengthy, lengthy rap sheet, didn't he?

EMMA DALLIMORE, REPORTER, SEVEN NETWORK AUSTRALIA: Yes, Wolf, very much so he did and they are all the questions that is being asked now, who is this gentleman? We now are starting to hear those details. Why was he still on the street? And how long was this plot in the making for?

Now, he is known -- very well known to Australian law enforcement agencies. He's also very well known to media outlets. His name is Man Horan Monis, a 50-year-old self-proclaimed Islamic cleric. He was known in media circles as the fake sheik and he certainly had quite a long rap sheet with law enforcement officials there in Sydney.

About seven years ago he penned these very poisonous letters to the families of deceased Australian soldiers. And in the last few years, he was convicted of that. In the last few years, also, he was charged with accessory to murder over the death of his wife. He was on parole for that crime. Beyond that, there was also 50-plus allegations of indecent and sexual assault against him. But, Wolf, only in the last few weeks or months, he had gone back to court for those poisonous letters he wrote and Australia's high court, the highest court there is, had thrown out his attempt to have his conviction overturned. So it's unclear yet if his anger over that somehow prompted this attack.

BLITZER: And we don't know if he was directly instructed, shall we say, by ISIS to go ahead and engage in an operation like this or he just decided on his own this is the right thing to do, right?

DALLIMORE: That is correct. At this stage, that is unconfirmed. We know some of the demands that he was making and that he was forcing these hostages to make on his behalf via social media, videos and postings. Obviously we did not make those public while this situation was unfolding, but now we know that one of the demands he had made was to bring an ISIS flag to that cafe where this siege was unfolding. Again, no direct correlation we know of between this man and ISIS per say. But again, perhaps one of those lone wolf inspired kind of attacks that you know too well here in America and sadly we now know in Australia.

BLITZER: In -- but you remember, it certainly was a huge, huge source of concern back in September when Australia said it was going on a higher state of alert because it was concerned that ISIS was plotting some sort of attack inside Australia, right?

DALLIMORE: Very much so. And more specifically, in that exact place where this siege had unfolded, that plot that was thwarted back in September was believed to be a plot to behead a random person, an innocent member of the public on the streets of Sydney around that modern place area in the central business district. So very much we had been on a heightened state of alert over the last few months. Australia, of course, is involved in those air raids against Islamic State in Iraq. Our prime minister, Tony Abbott, was very clear to the Australian public back then that this was a fight Australia needed to be involved in because, in his words, no country, no place is immune to these kind of attacks. And sadly yesterday, and into this morning, we saw his words ring true.

BLITZER: How is that played inside Australia domestically, politically, the decision by the prime minister, Tony Abbott, to support, to cooperate with the United States and other coalition partners and launch these airstrikes against ISIS targets in Syria, in Iraq?

DALLIMORE: It had been a controversial decision and our prime minister, our government, particularly did not rush. They took quite a long time. We had watched as America led this intervention in Syria and in Iraq. Australia in particular expressed that it did not want to be brought in to a prolonged engagement in Syria, but they voted through the parliament to go into Iraq. As I said, our prime minister believed it was our responsibility and in Australia's best interest to take this fight forward, for us to be involved, because we are not immune and now we have seen that we are certainly not immune. So it wasn't necessarily a popular choice. It has not been a popular choice in other countries, including here in America, but one that I think most people realize it is a fight that needs to be had. We cannot sit back and do nothing.

BLITZER: Emma Dallimore is with Australia's Seven Channel Network, one of our CNN affiliates.

Emma, thanks very much for joining us.

DALLIMORE: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: We're standing by for a news conference in Sydney. Local law enforcement about to release details of what happened. We'll have live coverage, of course, coming up right here on CNN. The Sydney hostages, they relayed the demands from their captor. We're also going to be taking a closer look at the role of social media as this hostage drama over 16 hours played out. That's coming up.

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