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Wolf

Three French Terrorists Killed; One Woman Terrorist at Large; French President to Address Nation, President Obama to Speak; Two Hostage Incidents Over

Aired January 09, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's almost 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 7:00 in Paris. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks for joining us. We've got a lot of breaking news. We're following out of France right now.

The two men who launched that brazen daylight attack on the French magazine Charlie Hebdo, they are dead. They were killed at the end of a long hostage standoff just northeast of Paris.

Police teams moved in behind a series of explosions. They took down the brothers, Said and Cherif Kouachi. The brothers had open fire on police shortly before police moved in. The brothers who gunned down 12 people brutally on Wednesday were holding at least one hostage. They had told police they wanted to die as martyrs. Part of that has happened.

At the same time, police moved in to end another hostage situation outside Paris. This one, a man suspected in the killing of a French policewoman, only yesterday, was holding several hostages inside a kosher market. That suspect is now also dead. Police say the incidents were linked because the shooters are linked themselves. CNN has been told by western intelligence sources, the third suspect was a close associate of Cherif Kouachi.

I want to go to Paris right now where our colleague and friend Chris Cuomo has been doing an amazing job for all of us. He's on this team for us. Chris, walk us through how all of this played out. It's not over yet, by any means because one suspect -- this woman is still on the loose.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And we also know, Wolf, that French authorities have dispatched assets to the neighborhood where the brothers and this third terror suspect, the man of African descent that you had up on the screen, knew each other. They don't know what other connections there could be. They don't know what other accomplices there could be. They're still unsure about who the third, if not an additional accomplice, was here at the magazine massacre. They don't know if that man of African descent was the third man they were looking for. They had their eyes on this 18-year-old who turned himself in. Authorities no longer believe that it's him.

But here's what we know. The conclusion of these two stand offs happened in very different and very dynamic ways. At the industrial park, after being chased through the night, the men commandeered a car. They wound up being cornered there. They took a hostage, a man. We now know, Wolf, that the man found a way to get away to avoid the two hostage takers, the terrorists. He hid himself, we believe, in a box. When this happened, the terror suspects decided to take on the authorities. And when they did, their day ended very quickly.

It was very different in the grocery store. In the Kosher grocery. There, this man of African descent that you had up there that earlier in the day, French authorities had released his picture and his name as a suspect in the killing -- in the killing of a French police officer, a female, yesterday and the shooting of a second. He and his alleged accomplice, who is his girlfriend, who was also pictured. They, then, at least the man, we don't know about the woman. But we do know that the man walked into this Kosher grocery, announced to people there, you know who I am, and then took hostages. We're not sure how many. We believe that children were involved.

So, what happened there was that French authorities observed the man going into what they thought was a prayer or a preparation for some violent action of his own accord because they had just seen the two brothers attacking authorities. That's what initiated the assault. They used flash bangs which you know, Wolf, but for everybody else, there's a big blast of light. They're disorienting. They're a diversion. And then, they went in. And it was very difficult there. I want to bring in Hala Gorani. You've been with me all day watching this. That Kosher grocery, much tougher for authorities. The industrial park, big, lots of points of ingress and egress. Two people, only one hostage. Here, they only had one way in. We watched them struggling to get in.

HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CUOMO: We were told it was very violent. You can only imagine what was going on inside.

GORANI: And you were talking about that industrial zone situation. Some reports are suggesting that that hostage may not even have been necessarily known to the two terrorists, that they might not have even known that they had a hostage. Authorities, of course, knew there was that individual inside. But whether or not they knew that he was a "bargaining chip," quote, unquote, if you will, is unclear at this stage.

Recording the Kosher supermarket, there were -- the question there, of course, is what happened in terms of loss of life among the hostages? There are these reports out there --

CUOMO: We know hostages lost their lives. We know others were injured but we don't know the numbers.

GORANI: Exactly. And the reason we know that for sure is that the minister of interior came out, spoke to reporters and said he was saddened by the loss of life, including among the hostages. So, at this stage, we can confirm that. We cannot confirm the number or numbers that are out there unless we have an accurate and definitive figure, we don't want to communicate it. But we know that, initially, in the first few minutes after the end of these operations, there was the sense that perhaps it was complete, quote, unquote, "clean" in a sense that only the terrorists had been killed. But it appears, sadly, as though perhaps some hostages died as well.

CUOMO: We also don't know, which is a very important note, whether or not hostages lost their lives in the assault or before.

GORANI: Right.

CUOMO: We also know some had been injured. There -- we saw a triage set up. We also know that first responders, French SWAT team members, they were also injured. We don't know the degree to which. But we do have people at both scenes and let's rely on that advantage right now. We'll start with Jim Sciutto. You are at the Kosher grocery. You watched it all as it went down. You've gotten to move very close now. What do you assess, in terms of how difficult this was and what happened inside, in terms of the results for the hostages?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Chris, we were here as this raid unfolded, several moments, electrifying moments, very nervous moments here as we heard those first explosions, rounds of gunfire, and then, a few minutes later, more rounds of gunfire. An indication, as you have said, that this was a more difficult operation because of those circumstances inside.

I want to play a clip of video as we were on the air live when those gun shots rang out here. It gives you a real sense of just the tension in those early moments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE.)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: I'll tell you, Chris -- I'll tell you, Chris, you and I have both been in Iraq. We've both been in Afghanistan. And as I was standing here on the street in downtown Paris, the capital of France, heard that gunfire, heard those explosions, it reminds me of Baghdad or it reminds me of Kabul. Certainly not sounds I expected to hear here.

As you'll remember, this raid unfolded a number of minutes after the raid northeast of Paris. Clearly, the tactical units that we have seen here all morning and early afternoon lining up surrounding this Kosher market, choosing to move in after the raid had ended, it resolved northeast of Paris. Concerned, of course, about the safety the hostages inside.

Another thing I'll say is that from the very moment we arrived here this morning, a number of hours before this raid took place, there were clear signs that there were casualties. As we drove here, we saw ambulances going away. I saw someone on a stretcher being taken into an ambulance. We counted three or four leaving the scene under police escort. That was a number of hours before the raid started. And then, after that raid started, we saw five, six ambulances rushing there, emergency workers crossing that highway bridge behind me there, going in as those tactical units came out. They were very nervous moments and that, of course, gave us that early indication that some of those hostages, and we know as well, for sure, some of those tactical units did not come away unscathed. I will say, this neighborhood, a very different place right now. Early on in the day, all the schools in this area had been on lockdown.

And I'll tell you, I met a lot of mothers who were held behind the police cordon, like we were, nervously going to the police, saying -- and crying to them, saying I need to know where my child is. I need to know that my child is safe. It was only after that raid, perhaps an hour after that raid, when the schools were allowed to open again and we saw a lot of tearful reunions between parents and their children, thankfully in safe circumstances.

And, right now, as that raid has gotten behind us, they've allowed us a bit closer to the scene. But, still, there is still activity there. It does not look like they have completely cleared away everything they need to clear away.

CUOMO: Right.

SCIUTTO: And we still have heard police sirens just in the last few minutes.

CUOMO: Well, we know, Jim, they're dealing with wounded, both among the hostages and the first responders. We saw a really compelling photo there, a still of a man running out with a child in his arms. That was a very complex operation there and we'll wait to hear what the final details are of how it happened and who made it out.

We also want to go to Atika Shubert. She's very close to what happened in that industrial part. And I don't know if you were getting -- able to listen before, Atika. But Hala was saying it's somewhat unknown about the status of who was being called a hostage inside and whether this man was just hiding the entire time, whether the terrorists knew that he was there, whether he escaped. And that's what triggered their assault on the officers who were there and wound up ending their lives. Have you been able to pick up anything on that?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, it's not clear, at this point, and police aren't giving us any details about that one what we believe is an employee at the company, whether or not they -- the hostage -- whether or not the suspects had any idea that he was there and hiding or if they did know, it's still unclear. It's incredible, however, that he's there and thankfully, has been released safely.

What we understand from our affiliate is BFM T.V. is that the gunmen came out firing. And I was just a few hundred meters away from the scene. We heard a volley of automatic gunfire. Two relatively loud explosions nearby and then continuing gunfire, a few minutes, then, of silence. And then, one final explosion that seemed to mark the end of the operation. But as you can imagine, people here, very tense about what's happened and there's a certain sense of relief that it's over. In fact, we've seen a lot of residents coming here to take a look at the cameras just to sort of see what's happened now that it's over. As you can see people taking photos of our -- of our live shot position here. But people here are very glad that it seems to be over and especially that the person inside appears to be safe.

CUOMO: All right, Atika, thank you very much. Wolf, we want to send it back to you, but Hala just identified something that's really interesting and instructive of the larger story here. People were debating very loudly, over our shoulders earlier, about what leads to this radicalization, Wolf, and whether or not this versioning Muslim population here is being properly integrated into society. Hala found an article that is on the CNN D.L. (ph), you'll be able to see it yourself. Describe it.

GORANI: So, the young man who was killed today, we believe, what the authorities are telling us, was killed today in the hostage standoff at the Kosher supermarket.

CUOMO: There terror suspect.

GORANI: The terror suspect whose name was Amandi Cumi Bali (ph). He was the subject of a 2009 article in a respected daily newspaper in France here called (INAUDIBLE) about youth unemployment. They were asking him questions about his life, about his frustrations, not being able to find work. He was following a -- and there's a picture of him, there you have it. He was following some sort of, I guess, training program at the Coca-Cola company, the local Coca-Cola bottling plant, and he was going to meet Nicolas Sarkozy. You can imagine that people who meet the president of France have to go through a certain number of, you know, background checks --

CUOMO: Yes.

GORANI: -- and make sure that they're OK to meet the president of this country. And he passed all those tests at the time.

CUOMO: But what is it instructive of? Wolf, as you well know, people escape from poverty in Paris and in big cities and small cities all over the world without ever turning to violence or crime, let alone terrorism. But it is an aspect of the discussion here, Wolf, about what are you doing with these young people from this burgeoning Muslim population. They are French but are they being embraced? Are they being given opportunities? And, if not, what will wind up being the alternatives?

BLITZER: Yes, a lot of people are going to be looking at that. This part of the tragedy here, what's going on in France right now? But, in the short term, they've got immediate issues. Hala, stay with us. Chris, stay with us as well.

I want to bring in some experts, now, to discuss what's going on, this unfolding situation. Joining us, the retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, he's a CNN Global Affairs Analyst, a former Delta Force U.S. Army officer. Also joining us, Tom Fuentes, our CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, former FBI assistant director; and our Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank, as well as our National Security Analyst Bob Bair. Guys, to all of you, thanks very much for joining us.

And I also want to alert our viewers in the United States and around the world, we're anticipating that the president of France, Francois Hollande. He will be speaking about what has happened. These dramatic developments, shortly. We'll, of course, have live coverage of that.

We're also told President Obama, who is on a separate trip to Knoxville, Tennessee, he also will be making some remarks about what has happened in France right bow.

But Colonel Reese, three of these terrorists, they are now dead. The female suspect, she is on the run, Hayat Boumediene (ph). How worried should authorities be that there are others now still at large and there could be other attacks?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Wolf, I think that's something they're looking for very diligently around the company -- country. That's one of my concerns is that she was able to either slip out or what we call squirt out of the objective area when they had it isolated or thought they had it isolated. But one of the things they're doing right now is back layering to make sure that she's not trying to blend in with just the situation right now or some of the hostages. But this could be, you know, driving on to other parts of the cell which is concerning for the police and the intel services right now in France.

BLITZER: Yes, that's very disturbing, Tom Fuentes, that this woman, apparently, an accomplice to these terror attacks, she's still on the loose.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. And does she have access to more weapons or explosives or other individuals who may want to get those weapons? So, that's a very difficult problem for them right now and they probably don't have the intel on her being much younger and being a peripheral member of this. They probably don't have as much information about her as they had about the other three.

BLITZER: I think they had a lot of information on the other three, Paul. And you've been going back together with the U.S. and French and other experts looking at their background, including the connection to Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula in Yemen.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: And that's the most disturbing part of this, that one of those brothers trained with Al Qaeda in Yemen in 2011. He was able to get out there to connect with the terrorist group. Now, this terrorist group would not have allowed them to train with him if they hadn't recruited him and made him swear allegiance to them. So, I think it's highly likely that he formerly joined this group. And Al Qaeda and Yemen may, therefore, be a stakeholder, to some degree, in this terrorist attack. And if that's the case, that stock is going to rise in the global jihadist movement significantly. BLITZER: Because there's a little rivalry going on between Al Qaeda

in the Arabian Peninsula, AQAP as it's called, as well as ISIS, for example. Even though they may have similar objectives, they're competing for support.

CRUICKSHANK: There's a huge amounts of rivalry. There's a war of words. Recently, Al Qaeda and Yemen said that ISIS wasn't legitimate, in terms of its caliphate. So, they're looking to restore the Al Qaeda brand to the headlines here.

BLITZER: It's a very disturbing development.

Bob Baer, what worries you the most as you see this situation unfold? Three of these terrorists are dead. One woman, an accomplice, is as large. There may be other accomplices still at large as well.

BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Wolf, exactly. I've been in touch with French officials the last couple of days and they are worried that this is the beginning of a series of attacks. And it might not just be France. It might be across Europe. I've been in touch with U.S. law enforcement who are very worried that these isolated groups could do the same thing.

BLITZER: I'm going to interrupt you for a moment, Bob. The interior minister of France is briefing reporters. I want to listen in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, FRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): We will carry on accomplishing this with the police officers (INAUDIBLE) who are highly competent and I want to work again and admire their exceptional work they have accomplished in order to save lives and neutralize the dangerous terrorists. Thank you. Now, I'll be speaking in a few minutes. There are inquiries taking place which are currently being clarified as you know since beginning of this crisis. Since we've been faced with this questions. I've never expressed myself without coordinating with the judicial authorities and without something being precise in the context of wanting to give the truth to the French people. In this context, we want to give information that is absolutely verified. Thank you.

BLITZER: All right, so there you have it, the interior minister of France. He, obviously, is very sensitive to misstatements, if you will. There's information that can be released. They don't want to release some information for sensitive security reasons. They certainly don't want to help others who may be involved in this get information that could help them escape the law.

I interrupted you, Bob Baer, but go ahead and finish your thought.

BAER: Well, I think the French are worried that they don't really have a handle on this. This isn't an isolated group. And, keep in mind, the French are a very good - have a very good internal intelligence service. I lived there for three years, fell under their scrutiny. I've watched them. I've worked with the French police. And we shouldn't -- we shouldn't look at this as they let this slip, you know, between -- through the net. They are very, very good. And if they're worried at this point, so am I. BLITZER: They clearly are worried and it's by no means over right now.

Colonel Reese, as you look at the situation, let's go through some of the possibilities of what's going on. This woman, this one alleged accomplice, Hayat Boumeddiene, she escaped. It's hard to believe she could escape in a situation like this when they were surrounded by so many law enforcement personnel in Paris at that kosher supermarket, but she's on the loose right now and they're trying to find her. But maybe even more importantly, they're trying to find out if others were involved, others in this so-called cell.

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, Wolf, like I said a few minutes ago, we're not exactly sure she escaped. The one thing you want to do in a hostage rescue, before you initiate the assault, is always is isolate the target. And we believe they did that.

The concerning thing, like I said before was, if she was able to squirt or slip outside of that isolation bubble, that's a concern. What those forces, the (INAUDIBLE) forces are doing right now is what we call a back clear. They're walking back through their steps of how they went in. Walking all the way back. Every one of those hostages is being looked at, photographed, checked, to make sure that she's just not hiding somewhere because they're also puzzled how she could have slipped.

Now, if she did slip, you're absolutely right, you're looking at probably a cell between six to ten people from my estimation. Because the bigger the cell gets, that means they're opsec (ph) is not as good and more information could flow. But there could be folks that help with logistics or other aspects that are out there that she's trying to get to, to put signals out or more communication and to possibly try other harm within Paris.

BLITZER: Let me go back to Chris Cuomo, he's our man in Paris right now.

Chris, there are conflicting reports out there about how many hostages may have been killed or injured at that kosher supermarket in Paris. Do we have any hard, reliable, official information on that point?

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": No, Wolf. I asked Jim Sciutto if he could get some better information because he's close to the scene. But you are correct, the assertion that hostages did lose their lives and others were injured during the assault is accurate. What we don't know is how many and we also don't know whether or not the terrorist inside killed them before or during or whether they were otherwise hit during the assault. We don't know. But we have been told we are going to hear hard news about the fate of some of those people.

We saw a really arresting image of a man carrying a child. Not just a child, an infant, out of there in his arms. So we do know that the speculation that kids were inside was also accurate.

BLITZER: Is it the assumption, Chris, that this terrorist, Amedy Coulibaly, 26-years-old, deliberately wanted to go to this kosher supermarket, or was that just convenient there? Was it just coincidental, shall we say, that it was Jewish owned?

CUOMO: Source - well, sources close to the investigation have not said that it was a target. However, they have said, when he entered, witnesses inside the store said that upon entering the kosher market, he said, you know who I am. So, certainly there was intentionality in terms of what he wanted people to know inside that store.

He'd also been largely off the radar, we're told, over the course of the past 24 hours. He and his female/girlfriend accomplice. And the question is, did they have opportunity to get farther away and choose to come closer into Paris, choose to create some kind of conflict situation. Feeding that understanding is the reporting from investigators, Wolf, that one of the early things that the terrorist wanted was to have the hostages he was holding released in exchange for the brothers' release.

BLITZER: And Hala Gorani, who's also there in Paris for us.

Hala, this is a very sensitive issue. A very significant issue. The demand that this guy was making, Amedy Coulibaly, that he wanted those two other terrorists, Cherif and Said Kouachi, to be released in exchange for the hostages being held at that supermarket. That was one of his demands, right?

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL: That was one of his reported demands and then it would confirm the reports as well that the two suspected shooters in the "Charlie Hebdo" massacre and Coulibaly, this man there who was involved in the standoff according to authorities at the kosher supermarket, at least knew each other, had been friends in the past. We understand that according to reports they'd also been part of the same sports team, soccer team on the outskirts of Paris. So this would, in fact, confirm that information.

And it would give investigators something more to work on, Wolf, because then it's not just a question of random and separate attacks, but potentially some sort of agreement made among friends, associates. Whether it was operational or not, that remains to be seen. But there was some sort of (INAUDIBLE), some sort of understanding that there were targets throughout Paris, including "Charlie Hebdo," that they wanted to strike and found legitimate. And you did mention that the girlfriend, accomplice/girlfriend, is at large. And so this is something that certainly authorities are going to have to work on, on revolving very quickly.

BLITZER: I'm sure they'll find her. The question is how quickly.

Hala, stand by. Chris Cuomo, stand by as well.

Paul Cruickshank, you've been looking at these jihadi websites. Has anyone yet claimed responsibility, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, any other group? Has anyone formally said, these are our guys and we did it?

CRUICKSHANK: No. ISIS has said, well done. Al Qaeda in northern Africa has said, well done. We have not heard yet from al Qaeda in Yemen. If there was a connection with al Qaeda in Yemen, it's possible we'll hear a lot from them in the hours to come. This is a group that when they recruit westerners, they've got them to record martyrdom tapes in the past. We don't know if this French recruit recorded a tape. We've got to watch and see.

BLITZER: Well, that's very significant because if these three terrorists who are now all dead, Cherif and Said Kouachi and Amedy Coulibaly, if they are dead, did they record what they call martyrdom videotapes to be released on these websites after their death? And we're going to be monitoring that closely to see if there are statements coming from these three terrorists.

All right, everyone stand by. We're waiting to hear from the president of France, Francois Hollande. He is about to make a statement. He will update us on what is going on.

We're also waiting to hear from President Obama. He is getting ready to make a statement on the terror attacks in France.

We're watching all of this. Much more of the breaking news right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're standing by to hear from the president of France, Francois Hollande. He is about to make a statement on these twin hostage situations that unfolded in France today. These three terrorists, they are now confirmed dead, two at one location at an industrial park, a third at a kosher supermarket. The woman, the girlfriend or accomplice, whatever way you want to describe her, Hayat Boumeddiene, she remains at large right now.

Chris Cuomo, I don't know what the French president is going to say, but clearly all of France, indeed I should say a bunch of Europe, all over the world, a lot of people are very uneasy right now because of what has happened over these past couple days.

CUOMO: Well, Wolf, this is a very complex situation for the president in France because he has not only the threat that is faced in the United States and every other well developed democracy, which is of foreign fighters coming, lone wolves, domestic terror cells, but he has this disproportionate population problem, 7 percent, 8 percent, you know, it's hard to measure, but you have a really significant Muslim population here. It's now the number two religion behind Catholicism. That's a deceptive statistic because France is so rigidly secular.

But, you know, this is a real population that needs to be integrated. He has cultural issues and economic ones that he's going to take on because many people will point to those issues as feeding this radicalization that we saw take root here over the last few days.

However, Wolf, I want to bring in some value added for you. I have Fabrice Magnier with me. He's a former French navy SEAL. He's very well acquainted with people who are involved in the operations today and the nature of French investigations against terrorism. You heard very interesting details, Fabrice, about what happened inside these two standoffs that had nothing to do with the authorities, but from a magazine that was able to contact the men, let's start first, inside the industrial building, the two brothers, and what they learned about the two brothers about why they were doing this and who they were. What did they learn?

FABRICE MAGNIER, COUNTERTERRORISM EXPERT: It's very interesting what I heard about that. One newspaper magazine decided to call directly in the factory, the printing works factory.

CUOMO: So they just called the factory, the business.

MAGNIER: The business. They just called the number.

CUOMO: And they got the brothers.

MAGNIER: Yes, they just called the number and they got the brother, they got Cherif. And that guy said, OK, I'm - I am paid by al Qaeda Yemen to perform action in France.

CUOMO: He was paid by al Qaeda Yemen to do this.

MAGNIER: Yes. That is what he said. We heard his voice. It was clearly clear what he said about that. So he said, OK, we are here to perform action paid by al Qaeda Yemen. And we don't want to kill women and children. We just --

CUOMO: Although they did. But he said that that's not what their plan was.

MAGNIER: Yes. From them what was said, "Charlie Hebdo" (INAUDIBLE) target. They are enemies. Some kind of enemies.

CUOMO: So, "Charlie Hebdo" is the enemy and that's why we're going after them. They were trained in Yemen, he said.

MAGNIER: Exactly. He was trained in Yemen.

CUOMO: And paid to do this.

MAGNIER: And was sent by some (INAUDIBLE) and paid by those guys to perform action on our ground (ph).

CUOMO: So that's interesting, Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes.

CUOMO: But then it gets more interesting because then the magazine gets a phone call to the magazine office from --

MAGNIER: From Amedy Coulibaly, the guy who was inside the grocery market.