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New Pictures Inside Kosher Market Attack; U.S. Believes AQAP Claim of Responsibility for Paris Attack Authentic; Rise in Women Jihadis Around the World; New Development in AirAsia 8501 Search

Aired January 14, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: OK. So, Bob, is -- this is what you're seeing in a way? You were speaking to this, that this is sort of improvising because he didn't cut the phone lines, he didn't have maybe a complete knowledge of the layout of this market. There were people successfully hiding in a freezer, which seems a place that would be obvious to try to hide maybe or seek refuge or just to go down and check. Is that what you're reading here, this was improvised?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Totally improvised. One person going in there to stand up against an assault team -- and I'm not sure whether that was GIGN that went in there or an ordinary police SWAT team. He didn't stand a chance. Once the shooting starts, these guys are dead once they try to resist this. And the fact that he had hostages in the freezer, he couldn't have known one of them wasn't an undercover policeman with a weapon who could have taken him down. But normally, when they take over a police like this, it needs multiple people. And as I said, you have to secure the front door and cut off all visibility to a police assault team. It's standard operating procedure for terrorists or guerrillas.

KEILAR: You're looking at what appears to be a hostage dismantling one of those cameras inside the market.

Gentlemen, stick with me. We'll be talking more about these photos.

I do want to mention some breaking news we just got in and that is that the U.S. believes that the al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula claim is authentic. That is the video that was posted in which we see AQAP, the commander of AQAP, claiming responsibility for not this kosher market attack that you've been seeing these photos of. But the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, on the magazine, where the Kouachi brothers were responsible for that first attack. Again, this is coming from the office of the director of National Intelligence. It says, quote, "We assess the AQAP video claiming responsibility for last week's attack against 'Charlie Hebdo' is authentic."

We have a quick break. We'll be right back with our breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We have just obtained chilling new images from inside of the kosher market in Paris, taken during the siege where four people were killed. The still pictures, these are from surveillance footage, they show the attacker, believed to be Amedy Coulibaly, with what appears to be a handgun in his right hand there. He's wearing fatigues, what looks like a bulletproof vest. We've learned this may be military surplus gear he had. These are other images you're looking at right now showing employees or hostages apparently taking down surveillance camera on Coulibaly's orders. In one of these photos, you see some folks huddled there in that aisle. One of these photos, there is a baby stroller that is sitting abandoned in the aisle of the market. You saw those hostages huddled together there. This is the baby stroller. We know there was a child about 2 years old who was able to hide out successfully. We don't know if that was his stroller. But certainly that was one of the good stories coming out of that was a small child that was able to survive all of this. All of this unfolded just hours before police stormed the market and killed the gunman.

Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula now says it was behind the attack on the French satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo." The commander of AQAP says the terror group picked the target, laid out this plan and financed the operation. The statement says that radical American cleric, Anwar al Awlaki, was the mastermind of the attack. One or possibly both Kouachi brothers may have met with al Awlaki in Yemen.

New pictures have emerged of the gunmen after the "Charlie Hebdo" attack, the Kouachi brothers, of what appear to be the Kouachi brothers while they're on the run. Images published by a French online journal from surveillance video at a gas station.

And U.S. officials tell CNN that they believe the claims from AQAP, about the Paris attack, is authentic. This is news coming in to CNN just minutes ago.

I'm joined now by CNN Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr. We also have Bob Baer, our CNN intelligence and security analyst, also a former CIA operative.

Guys, let's talk about AQAP here.

The fight, Barbara, against ISIS has been in the public anti-terror spotlight. But how about operations against AQAP like drone strikes? Have we been seeing that those efforts are taking perhaps a backseat to the fight against ISIS?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The fight against ISIS involves a huge coalition, all kinds of fighter jets, bombers, drones over Iraq and Syria in Yemen. You don't have those standard military targets. You have ISIS weapons and formations and troops in Iraq and Syria. In Yemen, you basically have leadership, individuals, a handful of very senior individuals and groups of fighters along with them. Very tough to find them, very tough to locate them and to launch drone strikes against them, and it's really the U.S. and the government of Yemen on their own. There aren't any other governments we know of that are involved. So it's a much more difficult set of targets. And drones, the military, the CIA, they will tell you, drones can maybe push back a little bit against an al Qaeda threat, against a terrorist threat, but it's never going to be enough to make it go away. KEILAR: Never enough to eradicate it.

I'm going to bring in Bob here. But jump in with questions for him, Barbara, in your expertise covering the Pentagon. We heard Barbara talking about drone strikes. They're not particularly effective, right? This is just sort of like bailing water out of a boat. You can never get all the water out of it.

BAER: Well, Barbara's absolutely right. It's not a target-rich environment as would be described. There are no military targets. There are tribal groups up in the mountains. They all carry guns. It's impossible to tell who's al Qaeda and who's just a militiaman up there. These places are unaccessible and they have been. On top of it, Yemen is a failed state. There is no central government to speak of. The Shia have taken over Sanaa. We don't have any good sources in Yemen. You have the leadership of al Qaeda there hiding among the tribes and the leader is a tribal member and he's being protected. And even if we could take him out with a drone, it would immediately -- a second command would replace him. And Yemen is just a mess, frankly.

(CROSSTALK)

STARR: I do want to jump in there, Brianna.

Bob, if this claim that al Qaeda in Yemen has made on the videotape today that it was responsible for the attack, what does that really tell us? Because it could suggest that maybe the Kouachi brothers just didn't go home for three years and sit and stew about the state of the world. Maybe they had communications in the last three years with al Qaeda in Yemen and maybe the U.S. and French intelligence services didn't know anything about it.

BAER: I wonder about that. I also wonder why it took so long to make this statement. Why didn't they do it the same day once the operations were finished, simply announce it and have that tape ready? It looks like they waited a couple of days. Almost looks to me that it was a propaganda piece to counterpoise themselves against the Islamic State because they are in competition. It mentioned Zawahiri. I still think these groups, al Qaeda and even the Islamic State, who operates in Europe, prefer the strength of weak links. That is, they simply train people, give them a little bit of money, tell them vaguely what the targets are, and all they have to do is get on the Internet and say, this is a better target, it's more vulnerable. I think these people are very aware that there's no safe communications between Europe and Yemen. They've read Edward Snowden's leaks. They know anything that goes on e-mail or on a cell call is interceptable. They would prefer just to send these people out.

I wonder about al Awlaki having planned this in advance. Why did it take three years? I think they're trying to build up his martyrdom, make him into some sort of hero that will draw more recruits.

And in addition, you've got this operation in Paris which involves a guy that was -- swore allegiance to the Islamic State. I don't think al Qaeda had planned that. That's way too complicated. I don't particularly trust these propaganda statements.

KEILAR: And we understand it is an authentic video. But certainly, the claims, we can't say whether they are or not.

Bob Baer, thank you so much.

Barbara Starr, thank you so much for jumping in there with me. I really appreciate it.

One of the most wanted women in the world is on the run today. Hayat Boumeddiene is wanted in connection to the gunmen in Paris. But she is just one of a rapidly growing group of women drawn towards jihad.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: She is France's most-wanted woman. 26-year-old Hayat Boumeddiene fled the country just days before the attack on "Charlie Hebdo." Authorities believe she's now in Syria and is more extreme than her boyfriend, Amedy Coulibaly, who killed four in an attack on a kosher grocery, later was killed by French police. Boumeddiene is among the growing list of female jihadists leaving their homes in Western countries to fight alongside ISIS or al Qaeda, women like 19- year-old Shannon Conley, who was arrested at Denver International Airport last April trying to board a flight she hoped would ultimately get her to Syria. A few months later, three Denver high schoolers, just 15, 16 and 17 years old, ran away from home. They made it halfway to Syria before they were stopped by authorities in Germany, alerted by their parents. And who can forget Colleen LaRose, known as Jihad Jane? Last year, she was sentenced to a decade in prison for her role in a failed plot to kill a Swedish cartoonist who depicted the head of the Prophet Muhammad on a dog.

In fact, terror experts believe 15 percent of ISIS foreign recruits are now women, up to 200 from 14 different countries. The average age, only about 18 years old. Western views towards Muslims might be what's driving many of them to extremism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translation): I don't want to be judged if I walk outside in any niqab. I don't want people to turn around and look at me. I want to be where I'm not going to shock anyone.

DR. ANDREA STANTON, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES, UNIVERSITY OF DENVER: There's now an appeal being made to women, it would appeal particularly to women who grow up in a Western European or a North American context because they expect more equitable treatment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in Mubin Shaikh. He is fascinating. He is a former jihadist, an ex-counterterrorist operative, and the author of "Undercover Jihadi."

Mubin, do you think that's what's driving this or is it something else? This idea that sometimes Muslim women are feeling sort of ostracized by mainstream culture so they turn to extremism.

MUBIN SHAIKH, FORMER JIHADIST, EX-COUNTERTERRORIST OPERATIVE & AUTHOR: First and foremost, radicalization is a very individualized process. And it can mean a number of things for a number of people. But identity and belonging does feature strongly in the cases of radicalization involving both men and women.

KEILAR: And then what is the difference, though -- the role of women who are going to Syria to fight, say, with ISIS, or not fight with ISIS, but to be a part of ISIS. How different is their role from that of a man who does the same?

SHAIKH: Traditionally speaking, the use of women, especially in these jihadi groups, has been very rare. The use of women as freedom fighters or terrorists is quite regular since the '70s. Various Palestinian groups, Palestinian Christian groups even were using women. So women have been used for a long time. We have this caricature, and it is true in the jihadi context, they generally don't like to use women. Al Qaeda was not use women. I'm kind of thinking the girl -- Hayat's involvement in this particular case might have been something just kind of planned up by her husband. ISIS itself -- and as you described, there's a lot of ISIS -- they want to play along with the boys, if you will. They see things happening. They see narratives coming out from videos. They hear the call the caliphate ISIS established. They've been theologically primed to go to this caliphate. They want to be a part of it, want to play some role. If they can play the jihadi role, it works well for them, especially if they don't have a partner to get a partner.

KEILAR: For instance, the teens from Colorado, they all tried to leave America, not to fight for ISIS but become jihadist brides. That fits what you're talking about as an ISIS or al Qaeda cheerleader. Is this prestigious for them to be married to a jihadist?

SHAIKH: Yes. First of all, for men, it's prestigious to be jihadist. In a dominate cultures, we look at the men who have wives, so she's the wife of so and so. It's exactly the same in these jihadi circles. Also, if I can add, they're depicted as jihadi princesses. What they're looking for is a jihadi prince. They think there's a swashbuckling hero they're going to get married to and live happily ever after.

KEILAR: Mubin Shaikh, thank you for your perspective. We appreciate it.

And we have much more coverage of the Paris terror attacks ahead.

First though, searchers find a 100-foot long piece of the fuselage of AirAsia 8501. We'll talk about what this could mean for the investigation.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: There's a new significant development in the search for victims of AirAsia 8501. Searchers have discovered a portion of the plane's fuselage. This is huge. It's possible that many bodies will be inside of this part of the plane. Divers will be searching the wreckage tomorrow. You may recall, so far, 50 of 162 victims have been recovered. Many families waiting for remains of loved ones still.

And investigators say they have successfully downloaded contents of cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder. This is important they were able to do this successfully. The information on these are expected to reveal what caused the plane to crash, definitively. Officials say it will take several months before they have a final report released.

Here with me now, Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the NTSB.

I have two questions. One, is this big piece of the plane, it's very large, are you surprised they found a piece this big? And what does it tell you about the crash?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It indicates the plane hit the water probably in a horizontal position and did not break apart in midair. The tail might have come off separately in the last moments of the accident. It's looking more and more like an Air France 447 type of accident.

KEILAR: A stall where it falls out of the air three to four minutes and hits?

GOELZ: That's right.

KEILAR: OK. If the plane had gone into a dive, you would have seen smaller pieces because that's a plane hitting nose first, essentially, concrete, right?

GOELZ: Right. It would have been more destructive. This fuselage looks more intact. It will be challenging to go in and get the victims. I think they'll have to break the fuselage up underwater. You don't want put the divers at risk. Inside is going to be a maize of wreckage and very dangerous. The good news is Indonesians have done a tremendous job of running this investigation. They've been sober. They focused resources correctly. With both data boxes recovered, we'll know what happened.

KEILAR: And the information downloaded correctly. They'll be able to analyze it. This is my other big question for you. If there's going to be a month before there's analysis public or even put together by this team, why does it take so long? Won't they know the answers in the coming day or two?

GOELZ: We can expect to get a formal report from Indonesia sometime the end of the month. Usually, 30 days after the accident, a report is issued. It's complex. They've got to sync the voice recorder up with the data recorder. They need to get it right. They've gotten it right so far. I think we'll see a solution to this tragedy some time soon.

KEILAR: Back to this piece of the fuselage, really the majority of the plane that's been found. Do you think most of the victims will be found inside this piece?

GOELZ: I think you're going to see a large number of victims inside the fuselage, perhaps not all. It's going to be very difficult to recover them quickly. But the Indonesians have done a good job so far. I don't envy them in the coming weeks.

KEILAR: How long do you think it will take for this procedure to get this part opened up?

GOELZ: A number of weeks. They'll start --

(CROSSTALK)

GOELZ: They'll start to work around the edges. The key thing is, can they lift in one piece or going to have to break it up under water?

KEILAR: That's a monumental task.

GOELZ: It is.

KEILAR: Peter Goelz, thank you so much for being here.

That is it for me. I'll see you back here at 5:00 p.m. for "The Situation Room."

For all of our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.