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Wolf

New Spurlock Thursday; Rebels Take Over Yemen's Presidential Palace; Obama Previously Called Yemen Success Story; ISIS Demanding Ransom or Hostages Die; Paris Mayor Plans to Sue Fox News; Interview with Rep. Mac Thornberry; State of the Union

Aired January 20, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is breaking news.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brianna Keilar in today for Wolf Blitzer.

We begin with the breaking news about the violence and chaos in Yemen and what it means in the fight against Al Qaeda. Yemen's minister of information says Shiite Houthi rebels have taken over the presidential palace. She called it, the completion of a coup. Fighting between government forces and the Houthi rebels lead to a cease-fire yesterday but violence flared again today.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is the only western T.V. journalist in Yemen. He joins me now live from the capital, Sana'a. Nick, give us an update on the situation. And from where you have been observing things, is this actually a coup that we are witnessing?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are seeing a lot of activity on the streets here which does, in the words of the information minister, seem, in her mind, to amount to completion of a coup, which she says has begun yesterday.

And let me explain what that actually means. We've heard from her and from two interior ministry officials at the presidential palace, the kind of key symbolic building of power in Yemen, was surrounded this morning we saw by the Houthis. But, apparently, they have now moved in and taken over that entire compound. It was the subject of an artillery jewel (ph) yesterday between presidential guards and those Houthi rebels. Now, it seems to be in their hands.

Also, she says, and eye witnesses confirm, there was a period of shooting outside the house of the president of Yemen. Now, he didn't leave the building. He is said to be safe. But that is certainly a cause for great concern. And it led the information minister, a member of his cabinet, to say that he had no control in the country, at this particular time.

The question now is, what do -- the Houthis rebels, who are predominantly blamed by the government for the outbreaks of violence on the street, what do they want? Now, they say, yesterday, that they were, in fact, attacked first. We are supposed to be hearing, imminently, from their leader on their local T.V. channel here to give a message to quite where this goes. People are asking, do they want power entirely? Do they want to run the government or do they simply want to remind the government and president Hadi that they can influence things as they wish?

Deep concern, though, in the streets of Yemen right now because there is a sense of a power vacuum, there is a sense of, really, gun law on the streets deciding what happens on the political table. Talks were supposed to be ongoing but, clearly, they've not magiced (ph) up the compromise many thought were going to save Yemen here. And it seems to be edging further towards collapse if its government really has any hold on the reins of power at this time -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Well, a collapse of a government that is friendly to the U.S. in its fight against AQAP. Very alarming indeed. Nick Paton Walsh in Sana'a, thank you so much.

I want to talk more, now, about this situation in Yemen with our experts. We have CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank. He's with us from New York. And we have CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst Bob Baer joining us from Colorado.

So, Paul, the U.S. backed the Yemeni president. This country is a U.S. ally in the battle against Al Qaeda. What happens if the Houthis take control, even though they aren't exactly fans of Al Qaeda themselves?

PAUL CRUIKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, that's a very big, big question indeed, Brianna. Indeed, the Hadi government has been an ally of the United States in going after Al Qaeda in Yemen in the country. But over the last several months, they haven't focused on that at all because they've been fighting for political survival.

And this coup, which you see sort of finished today, actually started in September when the Houthis took over much of the capital, Sana'a, and many of the ministries. And they've been the dominant force in the capital since then. The Houthis have actually been fighting Al Qaeda themselves in many parts of central Yemen. So, you're right, they're no friends of Al Qaeda. They've been going after them, to some degree.

But the Americans are very concerned because the Houthis are essentially Shia and they're worry that Al Qaeda are taking advantage of sectarian sanctions, and from the majority Sunni population of Yemen about this Houthi takeover to recruit more Sunni tribals into Al Qaeda's ranks.

And we're seeing Al Qaeda expand its presence in the tribal areas of Yemen, getting more territory, more manpower, more resources. And what has it said its main priority is in recent weeks? Attacking the United States. It's also claimed responsibility for the "Charlie Hebdo" attack. So, real concern at a time when the west is worried about the threat from AQAP. There's no one in Yemen, no government, officially to go after these guys.

KEILAR: Yes. And, Bob, what about -- I want to listen to something that President Obama said because it's really sort of -- you know, now, it's getting a lot of attention. This is what he said in September, so not all that long ago when he was talking about Yemen. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This counterterrorism campaign will be waged through a steady, relentless effort to take out ISIL wherever they exist using our airpower and our support for partners' forces on the ground. This strategy of taking out terrorists who threaten us while supporting partners on the front lines is one that we have successfully pursued in Yemen and Somalia for years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right. So, he used what we've seen in Yemen as an explanation for why going against ISIS and recruiting partners in the region was going to work in that case. What happened here though? Where did this success story go wrong or, Bob, was it ever really a success story?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Brianna, that was a political statement. The president was looking for one victory, you know, after the loss of Anbar Province in Iraq. He wanted -- you know, it's a lot of bad news that's coming out of the Middle East and it's getting a lot worse. And as Paul said, Yemen is clearly a defeat for us in the Middle East.

The Houthis will drive the Sunni tribes, as Paul said, into the arms of Al Qaeda, just like the Sunni tribes in Al Anbar Province are in the -- driven into the arms of Al Qaeda -- the Islamic state there.

So, you're seeing a Sunni community across the Middle East under attack, defensive. And when they get defensive, they turn to radicalism and turn to attacks overseas. And this attack in Paris on the 7th of January is, I think, a result of that.

KEILAR: Yes, it is bad news and it just keeps coming. Bob Baer, Paul Cruikshank, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Also breaking news this hour, two Yemeni nationals now facing charges in the U.S. for conspiring to murder Americans abroad. Court documents say the men were initially arrested in Saudi Arabia and that their alleged criminal behavior dates back to 2003 and 2009 when they met with a senior Al Qaeda leader.

Coming up, we are following more breaking news. The mayor of Paris plans to take legal action against Fox News. Hear from the mayor herself next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Japan faces a threat from ISIS militants as Europe works to round up suspects and shut down terror cells. Here's the latest. ISIS is threatening to kill two Japanese hostages unless Japan pays a $200 million ransom. ISIS released a video showing the men in orange jumpsuits kneeling in front of a masked man. You see that here. This is very similar to previous hostage videos that we've seen. And Japan's prime minister is calling for the immediate release of these men. He's also standing by a pledge of support for those affected by ISIS.

Four terror suspects held in connection with the Paris attacks were in court today. They were formally accused of, quote, "association with a criminal terrorist organization." Five other people held since Friday were released last night.

And Belgian authorities are searching for the ringleader of the terror cell targeted in last week's raid. Counterterrorism officials suspect he is Abdelhamid Abudde (ph), a Belgian Moroccan ISIS fighter. He's also believed to be the terror cell's link to ISIS operatives in Syria.

Well, just a short time ago, CNN Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour interviewed the mayor of Paris. Anne Hildago revealed that she will be taking legal action against Fox News. Last week, various people made questionable claims about Muslim no-go zones in France. Fox has since apologized multiple times for the comments.

Let's bring in Christiane Amanpour now. She's joining us from London. And we also have CNN Media Correspondent Brian Stelter, the Host of "RELIABLE SOURCES." And we have CNN Legal Analyst Paul Callan.

Christiane, this was a fascinating interview. What did the mayor tell you?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we had the interview in the context of the arrests and what needs to be done and all sorts of comments from the prime minister about, you know, the deep divisions in society. And also, in the context of them being very worried about not just anti-Semitism which we saw in the attack on the market there two weeks ago, but also rising backlash against Islam. So, all of this and then reacting to these comments by Fox News and its experts which basically targeted and accused France of having no-go zones, Islamic Sharia law no-go zones right after they had -- about the same time as they'd done the same thing about Birmingham in England. So, the mayor said that Paris, particularly, had been particularly damaged, and she called prejudiced about it, and she was going to take legal action. Listen to what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNE HIDALGO, MAYOR, PARIS (translator): I'm insulted. And when we've had an image, then I think we'll have to sue. I think we'll have to go to court in order to have these words removed. The image of Paris has been prejudiced and the honor of Paris has been prejudiced. And I think in the great discussion of truth, everyone is to play its role. And we are going to have to be realistic and put things as they are.

AMANPOUR: Can you clarify which exact network you're going to take to court and sue?

HIDALGO (translator): Fox News, that's the name.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So, it's unclear where this will go but she seemed fairly determined. I mean, is she making a point or do they expect real legal reparations? We don't know. But that's the point she's making.

And, interestingly, actually, it's been a French satirical news program sort of modeled sort of loosely on Jon Stewart's daily -- "The Daily Show" which actually took on all of this commentary by Fox on very, very amusing programs that they've done over the last several days. And the French ambassador to the United States has been tweeting out a storm saying that, of course, this is not the France that we know and it's not true and all the rest of it. And, as I say, it happened after similar comments about Birmingham, England, where the prime minister, David Cameron said, I nearly choked on my porridge when I heard about no-go zones in my country.

KEILAR: Yes, Christiane, thank you so much. Great interview. Really appreciate you breaking that down for us.

And I want to talk about this now with Brian and Paul. You know, Brian, you've talked a lot about this on your show, "RELIABLE SOURCES." Christiane was talking about that example of Birmingham. There was a guest, it was not a Fox News host, but it was a guest --

BRIAN STELTER, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Right.

KEILAR: -- who said that Birmingham was basically a completely Muslim city and that it was a no-go zone where police officers or non-Muslims wouldn't go. And then, they later corrected it saying actually the census per 2011, Birmingham is only 22 percent Muslim. The -- also, this map.

STELTER: That's right.

KEILAR: Also this map -- this map was used. And I believe that these are identifying what are really actually poor parts of Paris and these were described as the no-go zones of Paris and so they apologized for this.

STELTER: Yes, this is probably the best example right here. This map is probably the best example of what the mayor is objecting to because it's highlighting parts of her city that, you know, may have - I don't know for sure -- they may have higher crime. They may have more poor people. But this is based on a map from 1996. So even if it was accurate back then, referring to areas that need more support from the government, who knows if it's accurate now. So you have something that was taken from 20 years ago and then conflated to be these no-go zones.

And the reason why I think it's so significant is that no-go zones is something of a theme in right wing media here in the United States. It presents this image of Muslims as the other, as something to be feared. And that is why Fox and others have been widely criticized for their coverage about this recently and why, ultimately, I think there were a number of apologies on Saturday. We will see, of course, if this legal action goes forward now. KEILAR: So, Paul, speaking of that, does the Paris mayor have a case?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's interesting. France has a law that was enacted in 1881 that became famous in the Dreyfus affair in which, if the honor of a person or a body is insulted, one can bring a defamation case in France. And you can bring it either for money damages or you can even bring a criminal case if you can convince law enforcement authorities to proceed. So, technically, there's probably a law on the book that they could invoke. But, frankly, I think it would subject them to such ridicule throughout the world. And in terms of political commentary and geopolitical commentary, how could any network safely comment on anything without being in fear of being pulled into a defamation suit?

STELTER: Right.

CALLAN: So I think for that reason ultimately this is going to go no place, but it's going to make a great headline or two.

STELTER: There's an old slogan, Brianna, that -

KEILAR: Yes. The Dreyfus affair. You have me - you have me digging back into my high school history files. But, Brian, talk a little bit about I guess kind of what the lesson is journalistically here. You know, there were - there were guests who wanted to talk about no-go zones on CNN and yet it was an issue that seemed very murky. And so - you know, it was all - it was sort of this issue about, you know, what is this really and, you know, is this even a real thing? What's the lesson here?

STELTER: One of them is that if a guest says something that seems out of bounds, the anchor has to challenge it. And I think we see that all the time on television, but we didn't see it in this case, in these cases on Fox. And it reminds me of something that a mentor said to me years ago, that the solution to bad journalism is more journalism. The idea to us in the United States that lawsuits are the solution, that seems anathema (ph) of what we believe in and stand for generally. The solution is what we're talking about right now, more journalism, good journalism, sending reporters to these so-called neighborhoods and then actually showing what life is actually like there.

And, by the way, I'm looking at my monitor here. No comment yet from Fox about this claim from the Paris mayor. We'll see what the network says about it.

KEILAR: Yes, we will.

All right, Brian Stelter, Paul Callan, thanks to both of you.

CALLAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: And coming up, we're going to look ahead to tonight's State of the Union Address. We're going to get a preview from both sides, Republican and Democrat, about what they want to hear. It's going to be very different, I'm pretty sure.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Well, tonight marks 50 years since the first primetime televised State of the Union speech. That one given by President Lyndon Johnson centered on the great society. And it brought calls for the establishment of Medicare, Medicaid and the Voting Rights Act. Tonight, President Obama will talk about tax credits, community college and cyber security.

Joining me now to talk more about the State of the Union is Texas Republican Congressman Mac Thornberry. He's the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, a very important role in Congress.

Thanks for being with us, congressman. And, I mean, I imagine the first issue that you think the president should touch on in his address is not going to be the one that he does, but what would you want to hear from him?

REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R), TEXAS: Well, I would want to hear about national security. Just look at what you've been reporting in this hour about the deteriorating situation in Yemen, which increases the danger to us. There's lots of questions about terrorism, about protecting the homeland after the attacks in Paris and the president needs to take leadership and leadership in working with Congress to solve those things because they're not going to get better with him doing his own thing, as it were. So that's what I'd like to hear, a president reaching out, wanting to work together for the good of the country.

KEILAR: OK, so one of the things we are expecting the president to talk about is tax credits for people who earn less and then increasing taxes on wealthy earners through capital gains. What's your reaction to that, considering he's up against a Republican Congress, united in two chambers now after the election, and I imagine you aren't all too amenable to that?

THORNBERRY: Well, my reaction you've just given because he knows there's no way it's going to happen with this Congress. So it's not a serious proposal. It is political posturing. And that's really why I said what I did at the beginning. What we need is a president who is not so focused on ginning up political base or trying to help Democratic candidates in 2016. We need a president who will work with this Congress that was elected by the American people to solve the problems we face in this country and around the world. And so my reaction is disappointment because that sort of thing tells me the president's not serious about solving problems or getting things done with Congress.

KEILAR: You are the new chairman of the House Armed Services Committee. The first Texan in that role, I believe. Earlier today you talked about Congress and its role in preparing the military. What's your message for the president and for your fellow Congressmen on that?

THORNBERRY: Well, the only way our country is going to be prepared for this huge array of threats that face us is for Congress to play its role and be cooperative with the administration. Again, just think about the news of the day. How do we protect the homeland? How do we deal with this growing terrorist threat all around the world? It's only going to be with a combination of Congress and the administration working together. And Congress has a key, irreplaceable role in putting the tools together to deal with those sorts of threats.

KEILAR: Yes. And, quickly, before I let you go, this latest news out of Yemen, can you react to that and how you see the U.S.'s role in that situation?

THORNBERRY: Yes. Well, I think it's a further deterioration of the international situation. It increases the danger to us. We've got to be really worried about our people on the ground there. And it forces us to recalibrate how we deal with Yemen. Remember, most of the serious threats against our homeland have emanated from there in recent years.

KEILAR: Yes.

THORNBERRY: So this is a big deal and it increases the danger to us.

KEILAR: Yes, it's huge.

All right, Congressman Mac Thornberry, thanks so much.

THORNBERRY: You're welcome.

KEILAR: And coming up, we are going to hear from the Democratic side, Congressman Angle is going to join me live to talk about the president's address.

And CNN's coverage of the president's State of the Union begins right here tonight at 7:00 Eastern.

In other news, why is there a Russian spy ship docked in Havana harbor? Our CNN reporter is inside of the ship and is going to explain its connect to thawing U.S./Cuba relations.

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