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White House Reacts to Apparent Hostage Murder; ISIS Video Appears to Show Jordanian Pilot Burned Alive; Obama Reacts to ISIS Claim; Jordan Demanded Proof of Life for Pilot

Aired February 03, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting from Washington. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world.

We begin this hour with breaking news. Pictures on an ISIS website appear to show a hostage burned alive while held in a cage. The video is horrific and CNN has decided we will not be showing any of these images. The hostage, Moaz Al Kasasbeh, a Jordanian military fighter pilot captured last month after he ejected from his F-16 over Syria. Jordanian television now says he was killed a month ago which intelligence officials have thought was certainly possible.

Jordan is, of course, a critical member of the U.S.-led coalition fighting ISIS right now. And Jordan was one of the first nations to carry out air strikes against ISIS when the campaign began last September. ISIS threatened Al Kasasbeh if Jordan refused to free a female jihadi convicted terrorist, Sajida Al Rishawi. She is imprisoned in Jordan for her role in a 2005 suicide bombing in Amman, Jordan that left some 60 people dead and hundreds of others injured. The negotiations appeared to be going nowhere. However, just moments ago, we heard directly from President Obama. He was reacting to the claims made by ISIS on the death of this 26-year-old Jordanian pilot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I just got word of the video that had been released. I don't know the details of the confirmations. But should, in fact, this video be authentic, it's just one more indication of the viciousness and barbarity of this organization. And it, I think, will redouble the vigilance and determination on the part of a global coalition to make sure that they are degraded and, ultimately, defeated. And it also just indicates the degree to which whatever ideology they're operating off of, it's bankrupt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Strong words from the president of the United States.

Let's go to Amman, Jordan, right now. Jomana Karadsheh is joining us. She's on the scene for us. Jomana, we know that King Abdullah of Jordan, he's here in Washington right now. The foreign minister, Shinzo Abe, he's here in Washington right now. I anticipate that we will be hearing directly from the king at some point shortly. But what's been the reaction in Jordan so far?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we heard from our team that is currently at this hall where the family and the tribe of Moaz Al Kasasbeh have been gathering over the past couple of weeks. And they say that the mood there is of anger and real frustration with what is going on. They're really disgusted by this. They say that his immediate family, his father and his brothers, have left to the hometown of Moaz Al Kasasbeh in the south. But hundreds of people are now showing up in solidarity with the family.

Of course, there's a lot of concern, Wolf, about what kind of reaction are we going to be seeing? In the past week or so, we had heard from the family, his tribe. This is an important tribe in Jordan. As you know, the tribes are an important part of the Jordanian society. They are the backbone of support of the Jordanian monarchy. And they had been blaming the Jordanian government of not doing enough to try and secure his release. There were calls on the government, pressure to release that would-be -- that convicted would-be suicide bomber, Sajida Al Rishawi.

So, we're going to have to wait and see. All eyes, right now, are on the city of Karak, south of Amman. That is where the family is. That is where the tribe is from. And, of course, also here in Amman, if there's any sort of protest, any sort of gatherings here this evening that we'll be keeping our eyes on, Wolf. And, of course, no official comment yet, other than what you mentioned earlier, that urgent banner on Jordanian state television saying that Moaz Al Kasasbeh was killed last month.

BLITZER: Yes, there was a -- apparently, the Jordanian military quoted by official Jordanian state television as saying he was, quote, "martyred January 3rd. If, in fact, that's true, he was killed, he was murdered, butchered in such a criminal way as that video shows, then it clearly explains why there was no proof of life video released by ISIS in recent days as they were trying to negotiate. ISIS wanted this woman, this convicted terrorist, released. But Jordan said they would be willing to engage in negotiations but they wanted proof of life. There was no proof of life. And the sense now, according to the Jordanian military, is he was actually dead, at least for a month. Anything more on that, Jomana?

KARADSHEH: Well, we're going to have to wait and see. We hear that the Jordanian military is going to be making a statement soon, within this hour possibly. But here's the thing, Wolf. The Jordanian government is under a lot of pressure because we do not know what was going on in these indirect negotiations that they had been having with ISIS, whether there had been any demands put forward for the release of Moaz Al Kasasbeh.

As you mentioned, as we know, the only time he was mentioned when ISIS threatened to kill him unless a direct swap took place for the release of Sajida Rishawi in exchange for Japanese hostage Kenji Goto. And they said, if that did not happen, they would go ahead and kill Moaz Al Kasasbeh. And, of course, the Jordanian government said that during the course of these negotiations, they asked for proof of life. They did not get it. We also heard them, again, Wolf, at the end of last week also doing that publicly, calling for that proof of life. So, the Jordanian government does seem to have known more than it was saying publicly, something we're going to wait and hear from them in the coming hours -- Wolf.

BLITZER: It is brutal, brutal video, indeed. And it lasts for some 22 minutes, as we said. We're not going to be showing it to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. Jomana, we're going to get back to you.

I want to bring in our Chief International Correspondent Christiane Amanpour. She's in London. Our CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank, our CNN Intelligence and Security Analyst Bob Baer, our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto.

And, Jim, let me start with you because I know you're working your sources here in Washington. I have been told now for days, if, in fact, there is video showing this Jordanian pilot murdered, Jordan will respond very aggressively against ISIS. I don't know what they're going to do. But the anger is very intense right now. Probably atypical because Jordan, as you know, is a relatively peaceful part of that very turbulent world.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: No question. There's been talk of retaliation, in terms of executing some of the ISIS prisoners now in Jordan, even the possibility of this female failed suicide bomber that had been on the table, though not officially as a possible quid pro quo for the pilot, that among the possibilities. But certainly nothing confirmed.

This is a real test for King Abdullah. Does he respond in a firmer way, firmer commitment to the coalition, or does he feel the pressure of a population which already, to this point, was uncomfortable with Jordanian involvement in a campaign led by the U.S. against not just another Muslim country but another Sunni Muslim country? This is a difficult thing for a Middle Eastern leader to do as these other leaders who are members of the coalition.

Keep in mind this, Wolf, in the span of just 72 hours, you had two countries on opposite sides of the world, Jordan and Japan, faced with the brutality of ISIS with populations at home that are uncomfortable with the involvement in this coalition and with leaders who have, in effect, gone out on a limb here, both Abe in Japan, of course, and the Jordanian king. It's a real test for both those leaders.

BLITZER: Yes, the Japanese journalist, Kenji Goto, apparently beheaded by ISIS. And now, the Jordanian fighter pilot, Moaz Al Kasasbeh, burned to death in a brutal way, gasoline poured over his body in a -- in a cage and then he was lit. It's really, really disgusting.

Christiane Amanpour, let's talk about what Jordan presumably will be doing right now. The king, King Abdullah, he's here in Washington. The foreign minister is in here -- is here in Washington. I assume they're both anxious to get back to Jordan and take charge.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely because this is a major test, as we all know and we've all been saying. Jordan has stood squarely with the United States and the western coalition against terrorism and, particularly, against ISIS. And the test, now, for the king is, will he make a national speech, will he make a national address to try to convince his people that it's more dangerous not to take them on than it is to take them on? That if he doesn't take them on, they will come into Jordan's backyard.

You know, if you look around on the ISIS Web sites and all the rest of it and listen to their designs, they have designs on Jordan. Al Qaeda has already, as we remember 2005, done a huge attack inside Jordan. Of course, that woman, Sajida, was part of it. They killed more than 60 people at three hotels.

So, they have a lot of experience with terrorism. They know the terrible destabilization that the war in Syria has created, massive amounts of refugees. And it's very, very unstable situation that they need to now try to resolve.

I spoke to the foreign policy adviser, for instance, to Prime Minister Abe of Japan who, again, said to me that, you know, even what happened to Kenji Goto, that is not going to stop us going after these people. Obviously, Japanese constitution doesn't allow for offensive military actions but he says they will absolutely keep supporting this fight against terror and they will keep funding refugees and others who are victims of it.

Clearly, ISIS is trying to provoke any number of nations to stop participating. And, so far, it is not having any success at doing that. And so far, ISIS is also, to an extent, starting to be rolled back in very key areas on the ground, whether it be Kobani or up there in northern Iraq -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Christiane, I want you to stand by. Jim Sciutto, everyone, stand by. We're going to continue our breaking news coverage. We're standing by. We're getting more reaction to the murder, the murder of this Jordanian F-16 fighter pilot. There is outrage, certainly in the kingdom of Jordan, but, indeed, around the world. I anticipate we'll be hearing, at some point today, from King Abdullah of Jordan. He happens to be in Washington, D.C. right now. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We're following the breaking news. It's very sad breaking news. That Jordanian F-16 fighter pilot whose plane went down over Syria and he ejected, he is now dead. ISIS has just released a videotape, a horrendous videotape showing him in a cage with gasoline poured on him after he was beaten. And then, he was lit and died by fire, if you will. Jordanian military, according to Jordanian state television, saying he was actually killed on January 3rd which is a month or so -- it's almost exactly a month ago. And that would explain why the ISIS terrorists did not release any proof-of-life video when these negotiations were going on for the release of this convicted female terrorist, Sajida Al Rishawi, held in connection with a terrorist bombing in Jordan back in 2005 that killed some 60 people and injured hundreds more. Let's bring back our panel of experts. Our Chief International

Correspondent Christiane Amanpour, our CNN Terrorism Analyst Paul Cruickshank, our Intelligence and Security Analyst Bob Baer, our Chief National Security Correspondent Jim Sciutto and our Global Affairs Analyst retired Lieutenant Colonel James Reese.

Colonel Reese, a horrendous brutality. You would think the beheadings of those two Japanese hostages, you know, were obviously awful, but now the brutal video showing the murder of this Jordanian fighter pilot. What's the point? Why is ISIS -- what is ISIS trying to prove here?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE (RET.), CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Wolf, Christiane said it perfectly, what they're trying to do is trying to get members of the coalition to say no mas. We don't want this anymore. We've seen this brutality. We want out. And right now it's not happening. But we have seen this brutality from al Qaeda, from al Qaeda in Iraq with Zarqawi. We've seen it for years. They're brutal people. And it's not going to stop until we put a stop to them.

BLITZER: Paul Cruickshank, do they really believe these kinds of videos, whether the beheading video of those Japanese hostages or the burning of this Jordanian fighter pilot, is going to win them support, get them more terrorists, if you will, out there in social media, the propaganda battle, if you will?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, Wolf, they think it's going to electrify their most hardline supporters and also terrify their enemies and weaken their resolve. I've watched the video. It's truly horrifying. Probably the most horrifying thing I've actually ever seen come out from ISIS. It really dwells on his suffering. And they're sending a message to the Jordanians, other regional Arab powers, don't intervene against us, stop your war against us.

And, of course, they did the same tactic in Iraq with a lot of torture of Iraqi soldiers that they found, lots of these kind of terrifying videos. And that did weaken the resolve of the Iraqi military. They turned and fled from Mosul, even though they outnumbered ISIS to a huge degree. So this has worked for ISIS in the past and they've calculated that it's going to work in the future.

BLITZER: Bob Baer, you agree with that?

BOB BAER, CNN SECURITY AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I do agree with it. That's their calculations. But the reality is, that any Sunni moderate support - I don't know if moderate's the right word -- is going to evaporate. If the Jordanian tribes had any chance of stepping in and convincing the king to back off this war against ISIS, it's over. The tribes are not going to accept this. And any lingering support the Islamic state had is now dead. This was a - obviously it's an irrational act, but it's one that's really going to hurt them. It's another nail in their coffin.

BLITZER: Do you have any sense, Christiane, of what Jordan might be doing? In recent days, I had heard from people in the know here in Washington that they were bracing for a major Jordanian response if in fact it is confirmed that that F-16 fighter pilot has been murdered. What - I mean Jordan's got a pretty good air force. They could, I guess, step up their air strikes.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, hard really to tell from here. They have confirmed it. I mean I don't think there are any ifs or buts anymore. The Jordanians have confirmed it. This has happened. It's a month ago. So while all this who knows why shenanigans from ISIS over the last week about, you know, linking this and that and the other prisoner swap, it seems designed for maximum publicity, maximum negotiating in public as the others have said, maximum sort of recruitment ability for their people and many, many people will be turned off very, very, very profoundly.

But I will say, I've just had a fascinating interview with a French colleague of mine who was held for ten and a half months by ISIS. It's the first time he's spoken on television, Dede Francois (ph), who was held, who knows so-called Jihadi John, who says that they reserved these ISIS hostages -- rather, the guards, the terrorists reserve their worst, worst treatment for their Arab prisoners, their worst treatment for the Arab prisoners. And he also said that the worst of the worst of their guards were the foreign jihadis, in other words, the British, the French, the others who had come over.

So it's a very, very, you know, strange cult that we're dealing with here. And, you know, certainly Jordan has told me, the foreign minister, Nasser Judeh, that they will not be thwarted or derailed from their fight. I asked him this last week, if indeed your pilot is not returned, if he's dead, what does this mean for your commitment to this fight? And he says, we're committed to fighting against terrorism.

BLITZER: They certainly are. And we're now being told that King Abdullah, who's here in Washington, has decided, totally understandably, to cut short his visit to the United States and immediately return to Jordan. The country, obviously, in mourning right now for the murder - the murder of this Jordanian F-16 fighter pilot.

You're getting more reaction, Jim Sciutto, as well.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This is coming from State Department Spokesperson Jen Psaki saying that the U.S. strongly condemns, of course, ISIL's actions, ISIS' actions. We call for the immediate release of those held captive by ISIS. Keep in mind, we're aware that there is another American, a female American, held by ISIS. And she goes on to say, we stand in solidarity with the Jordanian people.

You're going to hear a lot of those comments, certainly from the U.S. and from others, making those statements that we're going to stick together on this. And you heard the president say earlier that it will, in his words, redouble the coalition's commitment to fighting ISIS.

It is interesting, of course, that Secretary of State John Kerry met with the Jordanian king this morning, but the tape had not come out then. So he, Jen Psaki says, did not speak with him about it at that time. They weren't aware of it.

BLITZER: Yes. And maybe before the king leaves Washington, he'll make a statement. And, of course, we'll have coverage of that.

I want everyone to stand by. We're going to continue the breaking news coverage, the murder of this Jordanian F-16 fighter pilot, the reaction I'm told by Jordan and other members of the U.S.-led coalition will be intense. We're staying on top of the breaking news. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: We want to welcome back our viewers here in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.

We're following breaking news. The murder of that Jordanian F-16 fighter pilot. Video released by ISIS showing him in a cage burned to death. Let's go to Amman, Jordan, right now. Jomana Karadsheh is joining us with more reaction.

The Jordanian military, I take it, Jomana, now believes he was actually murdered early January, January 3rd, is that right?

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is correct. That is what we're hearing from the Jordanian military and the government here this evening, Wolf, they are saying that he was killed on January the 3rd. The government spokesman saying that this was their hunch all along. They felt that he had already been killed. Now, they're not saying how they know the exact date of January the 3rd, but the government spokesman saying that last week when ISIS put Muath into that whole equation, into the negotiations for the Japanese hostages, he said that is when they believed they were playing a dirty game. And that is why the Jordanian government was insisting on that proof of life.

The mood here this evening, Wolf, is very somber. This is a nation that feels -- this is a nation that is mourning. This is a man that was considered a national hero by many. We're now hearing from our team that was out at this hall where the family of Muath al-Kasaesbeh has been gathering for the past week or so, and they say that hundreds of people have showed up tonight and more are showing up to show their solidarity with their family. There's a mood of anger and so many people disgusted, Wolf, by what they are seeing. We're hearing people saying things like, this is how they killed a fellow Muslim.

This is really a shock for many here, Wolf. There had been some hope that maybe Muath al-Kasaesbeh would be returning home. Of course, a lot of pressure here had been on the Jordanian government to try and secure his release. But, again, we do not know what happened with those indirect negotiations that had been taking place between the Jordanian government and ISIS and what demands they may have had for the release of al-Kasaesbeh.

And, again, we're hearing from the military this evening and the government saying that they are going to retaliate and they are going to respond. And no indication here that they are going to be pulling out from the anti-ISIS coalition, something that many Jordanians believe that this government should do. Some believe that this is not Jordan's war and that it should not be involved in it and this is how the country ended in this situation, Wolf.

BLITZER: And we're also being told, Jordanian television reporting that King Abdullah, who's here in Washington right now, as well as the general commander of the Jordan armed forces who's also here in Washington for talks with President Obama and other top ranking U.S. officials, they will be cutting short their visit to the United States, immediately flying back to Jordan, totally understandable. There you see Nasser Judeh with Secretary of State John Kerry. They met earlier today. But, obviously, the release of this video will cut short this Jordanian visit to the United States.

Jomana, stand by. Our panel, stand by. We're going to continue the breaking news coverage. We're getting more reaction. Presumably we'll be hearing directly from King Abdullah of Jordan at some point. He might want to make a statement before leaving the United States. Of course, we will have coverage. Stay with us. We'll be right back.

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