Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Prayer Virgil for Slain Muslim Students; Ukraine Cease-fire Takes Effect Sunday; Reaction to Obama's Plan to Fight ISIS; FBI Director Talks Racial Tensions with Police; Look at Life of Correspondent Bob Simon.

Aired February 12, 2015 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's discuss what's going on with our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and our global affairs analyst Bobby Ghosh, who has written extensively on Islam and Muslims in America.

Bobby, you take a look at this, you look at what's going on. Give us your thoughts on what has happened here.

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, it's a -- it's a terrible, terrible tragedy. What you can see here is sort of three young people full of promise, full of hope and not just from those pictures but also from descriptions from family and friends. Very positive minded, very determined to contribute to their community. Couldn't be more American, frankly, than these three young people being gunned down.

We're being told that the precipitating cause had something to do with a parking dispute. As a journalist, I'm trained to believe that nothing is impossible. But as a human being, that does stretch it a little bit. It seems impossible that that could be the only reason why these three young people are no longer with us.

BLITZER: And, Jeffrey, the argument that you hear from family members and others, maybe this guy, the alleged shooter, was upset about the parking or whatever was going on and he had a history of confrontations over parking. But he had no criminal record, had not shot anyone else before. All of a sudden, he allegedly goes into their apartment, takes out his weapon, his gun, and shoots these three young kids in the head.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: To call it bizarre and horrific is an understatement. I think it's important that we call it a hate crime just because we want to learn about what country we live in. But as a legal matter, it may not matter. He is going to be eligible for the death penalty in North Carolina regardless of the motive. North Carolina's hate crimes law really only applies, as I understand it, to elevate misdemeanors to felonies, and obviously this is already a felony. And the federal government's hate crimes law, they usually only step in if there's a failure at the state level. So I think it's unlikely to matter as a legal matter, but obviously, it is something we're all going to want to know, why someone could do something so awful. BLITZER: What's so disturbing, Bobby, these two young women, they

were wearing the traditional head scarves. We hope it doesn't put a chill out there for other young Muslim women. If they want to walk around wearing a head scarf, that is their absolute right to do so. They shouldn't be afraid to do so because potentially they could be targeted as Muslims, right?

GHOSH: We've seen some echoes of that pretty much since 9/11 that people perceived to be Muslim, and often head gear is the indicator, face more and more hostility. In this case, this man lived in the same building. He was their neighbor. Even if they didn't wear a head scarf, he would have been aware that they were Muslim. But you go on social media now and you're hearing from Muslim Americans saying exactly that, that, you know, are we now more vulnerable because we -- because of our head scarves, because of our beards, because of the way we look. The otherness that is being defined here is something that sends a chill through the millions of Muslim Americans.

BLITZER: It certainly does.

And once again, our deepest, deepest condolences in the families of these three wonderful young Americans who needlessly, needlessly were murdered. And there's no excuse. There's no explanation. What can you say? It's just a horrible, horrible thing.

We'll take a quick break. Much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's go to Ukraine now. A peace deal. It took an overnight negotiating session in Minsk, Belarus, to get the deal done. In the end, all sides supposedly have agreed to withdrawal of heavy weapons of artillery beyond civilian centers, also amnesty for separatist fighters and more autonomy for areas of eastern Ukraine.

Nic Robertson is joining us from Minsk.

Nic, the cease-fire is set to take effect on Sunday. Moments ago, we heard from the Ukrainian president, Petro Poroshenko talking about that delay until Sunday. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETRO POROSHENKO, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We demand immediate cease-fire without any precondition. Unfortunately, they demanded we have at least almost 70 hours before the cease-fire was launched. Immediately after the deal was signed by the group, the Russian-backed terrorists start the offensive operation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He makes a fair point, Nic. Why not an immediate cease- fire?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly seems that there was pressure on him from Vladimir Putin not to do that. There was a moment in the talks here, 17 hours of talks -- a couple hours before they concluded, Petro Poroshenko said there just wasn't enough on the table for him, the separatists saying the same thing. Really looked like any kind of a deal wasn't going to be concluded.

And, Wolf, it's not just this delay getting to the cease-fire. Everything is sequenced after that. It's all about building trust. You get the cease-fire. If that's successful, pull back the heavy weapons. If that's successful, you have this demilitarized zone. If that's successful, you go to local elections, and so on and so forth.

What was really telling at the talks here, the only person who came out and spoke after the talks was Vladimir Putin. Normally, when you have a successful agreement, all parties to that come out and speak together and that didn't happen. It's very telling of who perhaps felt they got the most out of this -- Wolf?

BLITZER: We all remember the other cease-fire back in September. That didn't exactly work out well. Why do people think this one might be any better?

ROBERTSON: There are some elements to it, sort of details that we are not privy to yet, of the level of autonomy the separatists will get. The Ukrainian government was very concerned about it being able to control the border. If everything sequences correctly, then the Ukrainian government will get control of its border again.

There's a lot of "ifs." But it's built into those "ifs." If they work, then that's the principle through which people hope that enough trust is built that this can stick and maintain on the ground. But I think everyone's looking at this right now and seeing those as very big "ifs," very big concerns, that the formula isn't right and not there fully. We heard that from the German foreign minister earlier today saying that they didn't get agreement on everything. So there are holes in it and there are concerns because of those holes -- Wolf?

BLITZER: We'll stay on top of it. Let's hope this one works out.

Nic Robertson in Minsk for us.

The peace deal calls for amnesty for the separatist fighters. After h is news conference in Brussels, President Poroshenko was asked if that included those responsible for shooting down Malaysia Airlines flight 17 over Ukraine. Here's his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POROSHENKO: No pardon law will excuse the terrorist who organized the attack for the innocent victim of MH17. We never, ever pardon them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: 298 people died when MH17 crashed in July. It's believed it was brought down by a surface-to-air missile.

Just ahead, battle lines are forming over a request to wage war. We'll have reaction to President Obama's formal request to fight ISIS. Some say it goes too far. Others, not far enough.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Battle lines are forming over President Obama's formal request to use military force in the war against ISIS. It limits the authority to the military campaign to three years. It does not authorize what's called enduring offensive ground combat operations, but it does allow for ground combat operations in limited circumstances, including rescue and Special Forces missions. Some Republicans say the proposal ties the hands too much. Some Democrats say it's way too vague. But the debate is not entirely along party lines.

Joining us, Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen, of Maryland. He's a key member of these committees considering this issue.

Congressman, are you going to vote in favor of what the president has put forward or have you got serious concerns?

REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, (D), MARYLAND: Wolf, I do have serious concerns and I'm going to work to change the language that was submitted. And I'm someone who supports the current ongoing operations that we're conducting in Iraq and Syria against ISIL. I support the targeting of ISIL in both those countries. I support our efforts to provide air power to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces. I support a limited number of American forces on the ground to provide training and equipment.

What concerns me is two things. One, the grant of authority with respect to deploying American ground combat forces is way too broad. And secondly, this leaves on the books indefinitely, forever, the 2001 AUMF, which is essentially a blank check to any executive in the future. In fact, the president himself raised concerns about the 2001 AUMF two years ago and said that we should revise and ultimately repeal it. That's the direction we need to move in.

BLITZER: He wants to keep the 2001 military authorization to go after al Qaeda around the world, but he wants to eliminate the 2002 authorization that led to the U.S. war, the invasion of Iraq, the removal of Saddam Hussein. You want him to not only repudiate the 2001 authorization but the -- the 2002 authorization, but the 2001 authorization as well. But from what I'm hearing from White House officials, he doesn't want to do that.

VAN HOLLEN: Not repudiate it but, essentially, the expiration date for this targeted authority, a fresh authority to go after ISIL should dovetail with an expiration date or revision of the 2001 AUMF. Otherwise, you're spending an awful lot of time trying to design the framework for the ISIL effort, sort of trying to arrange the front door while you're leaving the back door wide open. I mean, any future executive could put American ground forces into combat virtually anywhere in the world where they find there are al Qaeda, you know, presence or affiliated al Qaeda presence. Again, the president himself said two years ago, he wanted to revise and ultimately repeal it. So that's what we're calling for. BLITZER: The president doesn't even believe he needs this formal new

authority from Congress to go ahead and wage this war against ISIS. And if a few guys, whether Democrats or Republicans, liberals or conservatives, resist too much and it's not passed, he's going to basically say -- this is what I'm hearing from White House officials -- you know what, he's got the authority already. He says he has the authority. He's going to fight this war the way he wants without members of Congress tying his hands. What's going to be your reaction if that goes down, there's no legislation that's passed?

VAN HOLLEN: Well, the president indicated in his letter that he sent to Congress along with the proposed legislation that he, as he stated two years ago in his speech at National Defense University, wanted to address the 2001 AUMF. I hope he would pursue that. But you're absolutely right, Wolf, the president is suggesting and saying that he has the authority under the 2001 AUMF to do what he's doing. As I said at the beginning, I support the current mission against ISIL. I would support an AUMF designed and tailored to support that current mission. What I have huge concerns about is opening the door to dragging the United States into another ground war in the Middle East. That has not brought about the results that we wanted. It has had lots of negative repercussions. We need the kind of military force we're using today, but we need to focus on a political solution that makes sure the Kurds and the Iraqis come together, are able to provide the ground forces necessary to take the fight to ISIL.

BLITZER: What I hear you saying is when the president said in his televised remarks that he doesn't want another ground war that occurred in Iraq or Afghanistan, he doesn't have anything along those lines in mind. What you're saying is, trust but verify. You believe him but you want to be specific. You want to put that in writing.

VAN HOLLEN: Right. There are two things, Wolf. Number one, members of Congress cannot vote on good intentions. We're voting on what's written on the page of the law. And if that law provides for much broader authority for U.S. combat forces, you know, we have to take that into account. Secondly, the fresh authority, the fresh authority for the introduction of combat forces will extend beyond President Obama's term. And so that remains a big issue. As I said, as long as the 2001 AUMF is in place, it would allow the U.S. president to put U.S. combat forces a lot of places in the world. We should do what President Obama said two years ago, we should begin to reframe that authority as well.

BLITZER: Congressman Chris Van Hollen, thank you so much for joining us.

VAN HOLLEN: Thank you. Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Still to come, reporting from the front lines of Vietnam, the Gulf War, a career which spans five decades. We'll have a look at the life and times of correspondent, Bob Simon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The United States' top law enforcement officer weighs into the sensitive issue of racial tensions between the community and police. The FBI concerned that there is a disconnect between police and people of color as seen in Ferguson, Missouri, and New York City as well. He used a pop-culture reference to confront the serious issue of prejudice in America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: I am reminded of the song from the Broadway hit "Avenue Q," "Everyone Is a Little Bit Racist," a part of which goes like this. "Look around and you will find no one is really color blind. Maybe it's a fact we all should face. Everyone makes judgments based on race."

You should be grateful I did not try to sing that.

(LAUGHTER)

But if we can't help our latent biases, we can help our behavior in response to those instinct active reactions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our justice reporter, Evan Perez.

A little bit of comment there, but this is a serious issue the FBI director is addressing today.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. It's not even very common the FBI weighs into this issue. They tend to stay away from this. It is something he felt he needed to do to address the big conversation people have been having since Ferguson.

One of the things he's talking about is officers often work in very difficult neighborhoods where a lot of the crime is carried out by men of color. And what do they do after seeing this year after year? And here's a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMEY: Police officers on patrol in our nation's cities often work in environments where a hugely disproportionate percentage of street crime is committed by young men of color. Something happens to people of good will working in that environment. After years of police work, officers often can't help but be influenced by the cynicism they feel. A mental shortcut becomes almost irresistible. Two black men look like so many on one side of the street that he's locked up. Two white men, maybe even in the same clothes, do not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREZ: Wolf, he calls it mental shortcuts. He says the same things happen in some of these minority communities who will make assumptions about the police officers who are there to protect them, often in very dangerous circumstances.

BLITZER: He's also going to say he believes the FBI needs to do a better job tracking this?

PEREZ: Well, yes. There's not much the FBI can do to enforce police departments, but he says he's going to use his bully pulpit to use police to report when they have shootings. Right now he doesn't know how many people have been shot by police. You can see how many were booked, but you can't tell how many were shot by cops.

BLITZER: That's a worrisome statistic.

Evan, thanks.

Out of prison but not yet in the clear. Two al Jazeera journalists have been released after spending more than a year in jail in Egypt, but they're due back in court in 11 days for a retrial. They're accused of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood but are maintaining their innocence. Peter Grest (ph), was in prison with them deported to his country of Australia. I worked closely with Mohammad Famy (ph) in Egypt when I was there. He used to work for CNN. He's a terrific, terrific guy. He and his colleague do not belong in prison in Egypt. I hope they are both completely vindicated and cleared and allowed to go home.

On a very, very personal note, I was really shaken last night when I heard that Bob Simon, of CBS News, had been killed in a car crash in New York City. Bob Simon was certainly an old friend, a wonderful colleague, a truly amazing journalist. Over the years, we often covered many of the same stories, and he could not have been more cooperative and wonderful when I was just starting out as a young reporter. He was already a major CBS News television correspondent. He could not have been nicer to me. He was always extremely helpful, always offering some very, very strong and important advice. That's something, as all of us certainly appreciate, something a young reporter will always remember. I also remember when he was taken prisoner by Saddam Hussein's forces during the first gulf war in 1991. Like so many of his colleagues around the world, I was deeply shaken. At that time, I was CNN's correspondent. I was so worried about his fate. I worked all my sources to try to find out what was going on, to do everything I could to help. There wasn't much I could do. But fortunately, after 40 days, he was freed, and all of us were simply thrilled. He was never afraid to cover wars or other dangerous stories. And like millions of others, I always looked forward to his "60 Minutes" reports. We were always a bit smarter after watching Bob Simon report. In short, he was among the very, very best in our business. My deepest condolences to his wife, Francois, and his daughter, Tonya. Bob Simon, may he rest in peace.

That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 5:00 p.m. in "The Situation Room."

For our international viewers, "Amanpour" is next.

For our viewers in North America, "Newsroom" with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.