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ISIS Attacks Base Housing U.S. Troops; Fighting Between Ukrainian and Pro-Russian Forces Rages Ahead; FBI Investigates Shooting

Aired February 13, 2015 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Jim Sciutto, in today for Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're watching around the world, welcome and thank you for joining us.

We're covering fast-moving developments from the front lines of two major stories. ISIS forces advancing towards a base housing U.S. military personnel. And fighting between Ukrainian and pro-Russian forces rages on ahead of a weekend cease fire.

In Iraq, ISIS militants have taken control of the town of Al Baghdadi. That is just nine miles from the Al Assad air base where some 400 U.S. military personnel are training Iraqi forces. And today, eight ISIS suicide bombers attacked that base breaching its outer security limits.

In the Ukraine, the defense minister says eight Ukrainian soldiers have died and almost three dozen have been injured just in the past 24 hours. And there's been no let-up in the fighting so far today. Reports even of tank battles underway. A cease fire is scheduled to take effect at midnight Saturday local time.

We begin, though, with ISIS on the move in Iraq. Militants taking control of the town of Al Baghdadi after attacking it from three sides and activating sleeper cells inside the town. They then deployed eight suicide bombers to attack the nearby Iraqi Ian (ph) Al Assad air base, that's where you have those 400 U.S. military personnel. But U.S. officials telling CNN that there are no plans to evacuate U.S. troops from the base, at this time.

Western Iraq is not the only place where ISIS is advancing. We have our Correspondent Phil Black. He's on the ground in northern Iraq by telephone now. So, Phil, tell us, you know, we've been talking about ISIS on the defensive but we see them on the offensive both down by Al Baghdadi and up in Kurdish areas in the north.

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, that's right, Jim. The latest, first of all, on the area around the Al Assad air base, we understand that there is still fighting fairly close to the location. This is coming to us from Iraqi security officials in the area and in Baghdad as well. You mentioned eight suicide bombers tried to get to the air base itself, according to Iraqi security because they are the ones that are calling them suicide bombers. And, indeed, they say they were all stopped. They were all killed.

According to the U.S. military, that location was attacked by eight ISIS members that they had not called them suicide bombers, though. We do not have an accurate sense, just yet, as to whether or not any of those bombers able to detonate their vests or cause damage or casualties there.

At the nearby town of Al Baghdadi, they are now said to control some 90 percent of the town. And as you mentioned there, it is Iraqi officials that are telling us they have done this fairly rapid time overnight by activating sleeper cells in the area that have enabled them to move in and take control of security checkpoints that they had previously not taken control of. Here, in the north of the country, it is quieter today.

But over the last 24 hours, there have been attacks across a wide range of areas. And this is on top of the significant towns and cities they still control in this region. Even though here in the north they have been wound back, in terms of their control, they still control Sinja (ph), Tal Afar, Mosul. These are big towns and cities. Even here in the north where the battle against ISIS have been going relatively well, there is still tremendous work to do, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, still clearly the ability to carry out major military operations by ISIS. Thanks very much to Phil Black. He's on the ground in northern Iraq.

We wanted to get more on the attack by ISIS troops and the danger to American troops at that base. Just a few minutes ago, I had the chance to get more details from the Pentagon spokesman, Rear Admiral John Kirby.

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Admiral Kirby, did the attackers, at any time, breach the base security?

REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: Well, it looks like they at least got to the outer base limits. We're still looking at this. And it's hard to say, you know, whether they breached the perimeter or not. But they certainly got, you know, to the perimeter level, at the very least. And they were immediately engaged, I think it's important to note, by Iraqi security forces right away.

SCIUTTO: Now, keeping in mind that they control this town just a few miles down the road, Al Baghdadi, from the base, I imagine the threat to the base is still ongoing.

KIRBY: Well, we've been saying that for a long time, Jim, as you know. When we started to put trainers in al Assad, we did that knowing that Al Anbar Province was a contested environment. That's why, frankly, it took us a while to get advisers set and established on the base because there were some force protection measures that we wanted to make sure were in place. So, we readily admit that Al Anbar it's a contested region that ISIL continues to want to pose a threat here. But, again, this is a huge, sprawling base, roughly the size of Boulder, Colorado. I mean, it's not just a small outpost somewhere. In fact, there's mini bases inside the big base. So, a very, very big area. And I would say that this incident, though not that we're not taking it seriously, happened nowhere near where U.S. or coalition forces were operating.

SCIUTTO: Now, assuming you have a subsequent attack that is closer to where U.S. forces are, are there contingency plans for evacuating those U.S. military personnel?

KIRBY: We have plans for all a manner of things. And one thing I will say, without getting into detail, is that there's nothing more important to us than the safety and security of our people.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because a lot has been made, a lot of statements made that there are no combat forces on the ground there. But isn't it fair to say that these military personnel, particularly in Anbar, are in combat if not in combat troops considering the threat around them? They're certainly very close to combat and, therefore, close to danger.

KIRBY: Yes, there's no question that they're close to danger. I mean, there's no question about that. And I don't think anybody here said that. I think your question is a really good one. And I think it requires a little bit of context here. The policy in place is that there will not be a return to U.S. troops in a combat role or a combat mission on the ground. These U.S. troops that are at Anbar are trainers. They're advisers. And that's what they're doing. They're training now hundreds of Iraqi security force personnel. They have the right to defend themselves.

And so, -- and we've been very honest that of course U.S. forces are in a combat role in Iraq. I mean, we're -- we've conducted more than 2,000 air strikes. That's combat. But there's not going to be a return to a combat mission on the ground and these individuals are not in a combat mission on the ground.

Now, again, as I said, they have the right to defend themselves. And should they ever feel under threat, they certainly have the right and the responsibility, the obligation to shoot back.

SCIUTTO: Now, there have been plans to put U.S. military advisers at other forward bases in northern and western Iraq. Are those underway in places other than, for instance, Anbar Province?

KIRBY: Well, we're -- right now, we have four building partner capacity sights, training sites established. Three down in the south. One up in Irbil in the north. And that's going to be the limit, in terms of geographic locations, at least right now. And, again, the purpose of those sites, those training sites are for training and advising.

I want to also clear something up. There seems to be this notion here that it was a U.S. base and you know, Jim, Al Assad is not a U.S. base. It's an Iraqi base. There are U.S. personnel working at that facility, as in the other ones. But it's not a U.S. base. The U.S. -- the U.S. doesn't have bases inside of Iraq.

SCIUTTO: A final question, if I can, on Yemen. You've acknowledged that, in light of the removal of the U.S. embassy there, that there will be an impact on U.S. counterterror operations. They will continue but there will be an impact. There are U.S. officials quoted in "The New York Times" today saying that the CIA has had to significantly scale back those operations. Can you quantify how much C.T. ops have been curtailed in Yemen as a result of the removal of the embassy?

KIRBY: Well, I can't speak for other agencies. But for the Pentagon, yes, there has been an impact. I'd be a loathe (ph) right now to give you a percentage. But, clearly, there has been some adjustments we've had to make.

What I do want to make very, very clear is that counterterrorism training with some Yemeni security force personnel continues. As you and I sit here and talk, we are actually conducting some training with the Yemeni security forces outside of Sanaa. No question about that. We don't have U.S. personnel in Sanaa right now. But we also maintain the capability inside Yemen to conduct counterterrorism operations. That capability still exists. Again, I would be less than honest if I said that is hasn't been adjusted and hasn't been curtailed in some regards because of the political instability. But this is a capability we'd like to maintain in Yemen and, of course, that requires a good partner and it's on the partnership side that things are getting a little difficult.

SCIUTTO: Admiral Kirby, thanks very much for joining us.

KIRBY: Thanks for having me.

SCIUTTO: And just ahead, more on the ISIS advance in Iraq and what it means for the war against the terrorist group. Our panel will put it into in perspective.

And police say this man snapped and killed his Muslim neighbors following a long-running parking dispute. We'll tell you why the FBI is now investigating.

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SCIUTTO: Iraq is calling in reinforcements after an advance by ISIS in western Iraq. ISIS militants within just a few miles of an Iraqi base where U.S. military personnel, several hundred of them, are housed. The House Armed Services Committee hearing today, the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency says that violent Islam is on the rise no matter how you measure it.

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LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER DIRECTOR, DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY: The numbers of casualties they inflict, their broad expansion and use of the Internet, which is very serious, or just their sheer barbarism that we've witnessed. I can draw no other conclusion than to say that the threat of Islamic extremism has reached an unacceptable level and that it is growing. We are at war with violent and extreme Islamists, both Sunni and Shia, and we must accept and face this reality.

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SCIUTTO: Let's get some perspective on what this all means from the panel. We have Lieutenant Colonel James Reese, he's Global Affairs Analyst for CNN, a former delta force commander, Bobby Ghosh, Global Affairs Analyst and Managing Editor of "Quartz" and Bob Baer, Intelligence and Security Analyst, former CIA operative. Colonel Reese, I wonder if I could start with you. So, you have this attack on the Al Assad base where you have some 400 U.S. military personnel who are training. They're not in a combat role. But combat came very close to their doorstep today and you have ISIS controlling a town just a few miles down the road. Isn't the line blurring between what a combat ground troop is and what U.S. forces are doing on the ground now in Iraq?

LT. COL. JAMES REESE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Jim, you're right. And you and I have had this conversation over the last five, six months about these -- you know, there's kind of this blur on the line and really the semantics of this where come. The bottom line is we are always going to give our soldiers the right for self-protection and to take care of these things. These forces that are out in Al Assad by name are combat arms type soldiers. They know how to fight in combat, even though, right now, they're doing training.

But if something happens, they're allowed to defend themselves for force protection. They have the rules of engagement. We have the other elements of quick reaction forces and all the air cap up to make sure our soldiers stay safe while they're out there helping the Iraqis.

SCIUTTO: Bobby, has the administration, in its constant protestations that there are no ground combat troops, no combat role, been misleading in some -- to some degree as U.S. forces are in more forward positions, and particularly in a place like Anbar where, you know, a good percentage of the province is controlled by ISIS, in saying definitely no combat, when in reality they're very close to combat? We just had the Pentagon spokesman, Admiral Kirby, acknowledge, in his words, that there's no question they are close to danger.

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, I think - I think you could say that the administration has been economical with the facts, shall we say. I think any time you send soldiers into a war zone, they are soldiers. It is a war zone. Even if you give them specific instructions to concentrate on training, they are armed and, as Admiral Kirby just said, if they face fire, then they are - they are authorized to shoot back.

Now, explaining all of that to the American public when the president first made the decision to send these trainers out might have been a - might have seemed a little complicated. But the reality on the ground, as we've seen so often in the Middle East and as we've seen in Iraq so often, the realities on the ground very quickly change any political calculation that can be made in Washington. SCIIUTTO: But, Bob, the narrative to this point from the

administration, from the military have been that ISIS is on the defensive. That their momentum had been stopped in Iraq and even pushed back in some areas. Now you have them going on the offensive, both in the north against Kurdish forces and now here against Iraqi forces but very close to U.S. forces. Is it safe to say that they're showing their strength here and that they're back on the offensive despite the U.S.-led coalition, Iraqi efforts?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Jim, of course, we don't know what their strategy is exactly. But they did fail in Kobani. That was strictly a Kurdish area in Syria. They've withdrawn from there. They've withdrawn some forces from Aleppo and moved them into Iraq. And what we see they're doing is they're focusing on the Sunni-Arab areas where they have more ground root support, which would be around the base in al Assad (ph) would be one place.

Also, I've heard that ISIS is attacking around south of Tikrit and they've took over Baghdadi, that village. So, I mean, they have - they seem to be changing their strategy where they know they can hold ground, which would be Mosul, al Anbar province, and the rest of those places. But we'll see how this all unfolds in the coming days and I think the administration, by the way, is disingenuous about forces.

I keep on hearing reports that you've got Delta in action up in the Kurdish areas. They're putting up Blackhawk helicopters, little birds. They'll hit an ISIS position. These cannons are quite fantastic and people get out and run and then the little birds, they shoot at what's called the squirters, the runners. And so I'm not worried about that base. I think Delta force, I'm not - you know, defer to Colonel Reese, is not at threat there, but we do have to get engaged in combat to protect our troops.

SCIUTTO: Well, Jim, let me ask you, former Delta force commander, have you heard, do you believe reports that Delta force is in action in Iraq?

REESE: Well, Jim, here's what I do know, is we do have special operation forces in there. And even the president said the other night, we will take our special operation forces if need to and to conduct a manhunting for senior leadership and the ISIS command and control aspect. Just we did - just like we did with the Saddam regime, just like we did with Zarqawi. We have to try to knock off and either capture or kill the senior leadership of these aspects.

There's only certain units that do that. They do it very well. So I would not doubt it that they're positioned. But again, these are all intent-based operations and they have triggers to when they are. And we're not just going to rush those type of units out there to do those things on a whim. The intelligence has got to be there and it will be a strong indication of when to go, especially if we can get a guy like Baghdadi, who's the leader of ISIS.

SCIUTTO: Now, there's a word for what you just described. Isn't it combat? REESE: You're right. That is a combat operation. And I believe the

president did say that the other night in the agent - in the authorization speech that we -- if need, he would - he could take special -- you know, the tier one special operations forces to go after that leadership of ISIS.

SCIUTTO: All right. Well, thanks very much, Jim Reese, former tier one himself with the Delta force, Bobby Ghosh, Bob Baer, always great to have you on.

Well, some breaking news just into CNN. A federal prosecutor in Argentina is now asking for an investigation of the country's president. President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner is accused of covering up Iran's role in the bombing of a Jewish community center in 1994. The original prosecutor in this case, you'll remember, was found dead the day before he was due to face questions on the investigation at congressional hearings there. As we get more details, we're going to bring those to you.

And also, the family of three Muslim students killed in North Carolina are calling their deaths a hate crime. Now the FBI is taking a look at this case, which police say was a dispute gone too far.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

The investigation into the killings of three Muslim students in North Carolina is still underway and now the FBI is getting involved. At issue, was this a dispute between neighbors that escalated out of control or, as many suspect, was it a hate crime? Two friends of the victims spoke to CNN about a recent incident with the suspect Craig Stephens Hicks. They say that Yusor Mohammad told them Hicks came to her apartment with a gun one right after the friends had left, complaining they woke up his wife. And after today's shooting - or Tuesday's shooting rather, happened, only one person came to mind.

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NADA SALEM, FRIEND OF SLAIN MUSLIM STUDENTS: And from what I know is that it didn't happen once. It happened several times. And from what I've been hearing recently is that it's not just us that experienced this. Other people also, Deah's friends, but everyone really noticed this guy. And, I mean, it's sad because when we heard about this, he was the first -- he was the only person to come to our mind just because you just don't come to -- you don't come to your neighbor's house with a gun. You just don't do that. And if you're mad, you send a notice to the apartment complex and they send out something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: CNN's Jean Casarez joins us now with the latest in this investigation.

Jean, police have not wrapped up their investigation, but is the FBI now getting involved specifically to investigate the possibility this was a hate crime?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are. I just spoke with the North Carolina division of the FBI and they tell me that today they are continuing to assist the local authorities in processing evidence on this case and they have opened up what they're calling a separate and parallel preliminary inquiry in regard to whether any federal crimes have been violated.

Now, our colleague, Evan Perez, his sources are telling him that so far the investigation has not found that this was a hate crime, but that it was an issue with a parking space. However, of course, there are many levels of evidence of when you're talking about an investigation that can take some time.

Now, meanwhile, many, many disagree with that and today 150 faith- based organizations and civil rights groups sent a letter to the U.S. attorney general, Eric Holder, asking for a vigorous, full investigation into whether this, in fact, was a hate crime. An investigation on the federal level. They're saying that the U.S. attorney general's office needs to show that they care about all Americans and this is the time to step forward and show that caring.

Now, this is taken an international stance also. The president of Turkey actually came out today talking against the U.S. government asking why U.S. officials have not come out to talk about this atrocity that happened right here in North Carolina, that these were not terrorists, that these were young students here at universities, one in dental school. Their parents are doctors. And that we, as a country, have an obligation for our highest authority to come out and speak against these violent attacks.

Meanwhile, the reality is, the investigation is still in its preliminary stage to determine, was this a hate crime or was this just an issue about a parking space?

SCIUTTO: All right, well horrible no matter what. The FBI now on the case. Thanks very much, Jean Casarez.

A ceasefire on the horizon, but will Ukrainian and rebel troops pay attention when the deadline comes? We're going to take you to Ukraine live right after this.

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